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Unsafe parts of town

Jimmy C 16 Dec 00 - 05:24 PM
Uncle Jaque 16 Dec 00 - 06:01 PM
Sorcha 16 Dec 00 - 06:43 PM
InOBU 16 Dec 00 - 06:55 PM
Lonesome EJ 16 Dec 00 - 08:03 PM
CarolC 16 Dec 00 - 08:20 PM
InOBU 16 Dec 00 - 08:25 PM
Naemanson 16 Dec 00 - 08:29 PM
Naemanson 16 Dec 00 - 08:33 PM
MarkS 16 Dec 00 - 08:55 PM
InOBU 16 Dec 00 - 09:15 PM
catspaw49 16 Dec 00 - 09:23 PM
InOBU 16 Dec 00 - 09:45 PM
Hotspur 16 Dec 00 - 09:53 PM
Rick Fielding 16 Dec 00 - 09:54 PM
Matt_R 16 Dec 00 - 09:56 PM
SeanM 16 Dec 00 - 09:59 PM
The Shambles 17 Dec 00 - 06:49 AM
Troll 17 Dec 00 - 12:18 PM
McGrath of Harlow 17 Dec 00 - 04:06 PM
InOBU 17 Dec 00 - 05:02 PM
kimmers 17 Dec 00 - 05:12 PM
Lepus Rex 17 Dec 00 - 06:15 PM
Quincy 17 Dec 00 - 06:16 PM
Jimmy C 17 Dec 00 - 06:39 PM
Bill D 17 Dec 00 - 06:59 PM
InOBU 17 Dec 00 - 07:33 PM
simon-pierre 17 Dec 00 - 08:00 PM
InOBU 17 Dec 00 - 08:22 PM
Naemanson 17 Dec 00 - 08:24 PM
blt 18 Dec 00 - 04:46 AM
InOBU 18 Dec 00 - 08:27 AM
simon-pierre 18 Dec 00 - 10:23 AM
GUEST,rabbitrunning 18 Dec 00 - 10:44 AM
Mrrzy 18 Dec 00 - 11:00 AM
GUEST,Roger the skiffler 18 Dec 00 - 11:28 AM
InOBU 18 Dec 00 - 11:53 AM
sophocleese 18 Dec 00 - 12:12 PM
mousethief 18 Dec 00 - 12:25 PM
McGrath of Harlow 18 Dec 00 - 12:48 PM
InOBU 18 Dec 00 - 01:51 PM
Jimmy C 18 Dec 00 - 04:05 PM
Joe Offer 18 Dec 00 - 06:41 PM
rabbitrunning 18 Dec 00 - 07:41 PM
InOBU 18 Dec 00 - 07:57 PM
Rick Fielding 18 Dec 00 - 09:21 PM
InOBU 18 Dec 00 - 09:25 PM
catspaw49 18 Dec 00 - 09:32 PM
Rick Fielding 19 Dec 00 - 12:18 AM
Jimmy C 19 Dec 00 - 12:30 AM
Troll 19 Dec 00 - 12:50 AM
catspaw49 19 Dec 00 - 01:00 AM
GUEST,Fibula Mattock 19 Dec 00 - 09:39 AM
InOBU 19 Dec 00 - 10:01 AM
GUEST,Roger the skiffler 19 Dec 00 - 10:52 AM
CarolC 20 Dec 00 - 03:04 AM
Joe Offer 20 Dec 00 - 03:20 AM
Seth 20 Dec 00 - 10:28 AM
McGrath of Harlow 20 Dec 00 - 01:11 PM
kimmers 20 Dec 00 - 01:42 PM
GUEST,Art Thieme 20 Dec 00 - 01:58 PM
InOBU 20 Dec 00 - 03:53 PM
CarolC 20 Dec 00 - 05:13 PM
Bert 20 Dec 00 - 05:17 PM
McGrath of Harlow 20 Dec 00 - 05:45 PM
CarolC 20 Dec 00 - 06:48 PM
kimmers 20 Dec 00 - 10:36 PM
blt 21 Dec 00 - 12:21 AM
Seth 21 Dec 00 - 06:42 AM
Ella who is Sooze 21 Dec 00 - 10:29 AM
Lepus Rex 21 Dec 00 - 10:32 AM
Jimmy C 21 Dec 00 - 12:41 PM
CarolC 21 Dec 00 - 03:45 PM
Uncle Jaque 21 Dec 00 - 08:08 PM
InOBU 21 Dec 00 - 08:49 PM
GUEST,Barry 21 Dec 00 - 09:34 PM
GUEST 22 Dec 00 - 12:37 AM
Ella who is Sooze 22 Dec 00 - 04:47 AM
Ella who is Sooze 22 Dec 00 - 05:11 AM
InOBU 22 Dec 00 - 08:59 AM
Ella who is Sooze 22 Dec 00 - 09:35 AM
Uncle Jaque 22 Dec 00 - 11:21 AM
InOBU 22 Dec 00 - 12:01 PM
McGrath of Harlow 22 Dec 00 - 12:54 PM
Bert 22 Dec 00 - 01:03 PM
CarolC 23 Dec 00 - 02:40 AM
Seth 23 Dec 00 - 09:55 AM
Murray MacLeod 23 Dec 00 - 05:18 PM
McGrath of Harlow 23 Dec 00 - 05:25 PM
Rick Fielding 23 Dec 00 - 05:45 PM
McGrath of Harlow 23 Dec 00 - 05:55 PM
Ella who is Sooze 23 Dec 00 - 06:39 PM
InOBU 23 Dec 00 - 09:07 PM
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Subject: Unsafe parts of town
From: Jimmy C
Date: 16 Dec 00 - 05:24 PM

The recent thread about " your Town and the music" made me wonder about safe and unsafe places to go. My wife and I have travelled quite a bit since I retired and seldom thought much about the safety factor, and never had any trouble. Last week we were talking to a friend about our plans for the coming year and when I said we would be in Ireland,then Quebec and also drive around part of the U.S.A. he said " you had better watch yourself, because there are certain areas in a number of towns that may not be too safe, especially at night". Anyway, I know we have catters from all over so here is a list of places I hope to be in this year. If you have any info about safe areas or unsafe areas please respond. Some of these places we will stay in for a short time, others we just may look around for 1 or 2 days. We would like to hit some bars and/or clubs featuring folk music or even country music.

1 - Belfast N.Ireland - I know this town it's my home.
2 - Dublin - Heard it has changed for the worse.
3 - Quebec City, Canada
4 - Montreal, canada
5 - Detroit - Michigan
6 - Toledo - Ohio
7 - Dayton _ Ohio
8 - Nashville -Tennessee
9 - Memphis - Tennessee
10 - New Orleans LA
11 - Biloxi - Miss
12- Tallahasse - Fla
13 - Savannah - georgia
14 - Raleigh N.Carolina
15 - Richmond - Virginia
16 - Baltimore MD
17 - Washington - DC
18 - Wheeling. W.Virginia
19 - Buffalo. New York

It's possible we may stop in some small towns around these cities, rather than in the city itself.

Thanks


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Subject: RE: Unsafe parts of town
From: Uncle Jaque
Date: 16 Dec 00 - 06:01 PM

Check out Rush Limbaugh's website, and look up the County election results map of the USA: The red areas voted for Bush, the blue ones for Gore (primarily urban). Someone did a study on crime rate comparisons in the various counties, and there was a really significant difference ( I think the results are posted there too).

In short; within the Bush areas, you're pretty safe. In the Gore areas... well, watch your butt!

Up here in Southwestern ME we have a lot of "blue", and those of us of the politically INcorrect persuasion do what we have to in order to protect ourselves, our families, and fellow Mainers. Personally, if I have to venture into Portland, especially at night, I practice the following security procedures:

Tactical awareness and avoidance.

2nd Ammendment, US Constitution / Valid CWC Permit

M-1911-A1, discretely concealed while quickly accessable.

Sobriety while under arms (not required by law, but makes sense and socially responsible).

Of course these options are no longer leagally available in "enlightened" Europe, Australia or most of the world... where we understand (from other sources than the popular dominant "news" media) that working-class Citizens are finding themselves increasingly victimized and dependant upon their Governments for their very survival. There are a few of us (just barely enough, it seems) left in this Country to see to it that that trend does not extend here, not just yet anyway.


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Subject: RE: Unsafe parts of town
From: Sorcha
Date: 16 Dec 00 - 06:43 PM

We have 'Catters in most all those areas, hope they check in here for you. Unfortunately you are not coming as far west as Wyoming--there may be a "bad" part of Casper, I don't know for sure, but there are no "bad" parts of any Wyoming city/town that I know of. 'Course, no place in Wyoming is really big enough to be considered a "city" by those who live in a "real city", LOL!


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Subject: RE: Unsafe parts of town
From: InOBU
Date: 16 Dec 00 - 06:55 PM

Hi Jimmy:
I draw the line at calling fellow mudcatters assholes, so I will only call Rush Limbow an asshole. Fact is, America is seen in its ugliest in the responce to your request. Here we see a post from someone who judges safty by support for the cirminal who stole a nation from it's people and he has the nerve to speak of crime. I slagged NYC in the post about "your town" but in light of the post from Maine, I hope you come to NYC, one of the safest cities in the world. A brother of mine from Derry said, that coming to New York from the Derry, he felt like a New Yorker the moment he got off the plane. There are a few good sessiuns here, especially if you are a visitor. It is only those of us who stay who get on each other's nerves, but hospitality is a right in the city that gave its votes, as did the majority the United States to Al Gore. Only someone living in the backass of the world would think that a gun makes your city safe. I urge our Mainiac mudcat brother to visit the city my granddad built the seaman's misson in Belfast, and see that guns, even when needed, don't make anyone safer.
Slan go foil
Larry


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Subject: RE: Unsafe parts of town
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 16 Dec 00 - 08:03 PM

I love the bad parts of town.That's where my band gets most of its business.


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Subject: RE: Unsafe parts of town
From: CarolC
Date: 16 Dec 00 - 08:20 PM

Shepherdstown, West Virginia is a small town outside of the Washington DC area.

This is a town that Uncle Jaque would describe as a "blue area" (supported Gore), but you can walk around town at any hour of the day or night and not worry for your personal safety.

Now that I've read Uncle Jaque's post, I'll know to stay out of any part of any town he's in. As a Gore supporter, I think I'd be to tempting as a target.

Carol


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Subject: RE: Unsafe parts of town
From: InOBU
Date: 16 Dec 00 - 08:25 PM

I might add, that I worked in Harlem, concidered a bad part of town and went to high school in Harlem. A trip to New York should include lunch at Sylvia's on 125th street, a vibrant culturally wonderful part of New York. As one of the few white faces on 125th, I can bet I got a better welcome than a black face would get in quiet a few New England towns. Don't bring a gun, bring a smile.
Larry


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Subject: RE: Unsafe parts of town
From: Naemanson
Date: 16 Dec 00 - 08:29 PM

There are certain areas of Bath, Maine, where you wouldn't want to walk after dark. Some of our sidewalks are getting rough and you might stumble and hurt yourself.


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Subject: RE: Unsafe parts of town
From: Naemanson
Date: 16 Dec 00 - 08:33 PM

In such instances a gun is helpful but only a rifle or shotgun. A pistol is too short to use as a cane.


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Subject: RE: Unsafe parts of town
From: MarkS
Date: 16 Dec 00 - 08:55 PM

Hey Jaque, why the 1911? It is so big it prints through whatever you may be wearing. Why not try a Walther PP in .380 instead. Much more discreet.
This may annoy a certain segment of posters here, but hey, we are all efriends with common interests, and agitprop does make for an interesting discussion.
MarkS


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Subject: RE: Unsafe parts of town
From: InOBU
Date: 16 Dec 00 - 09:15 PM

I agree with Marks. I think anyone who thinks like Jaque and Rush should pack a nazi weapon, ah heck, go ahead and wear the arm band as well, so folks can see ya coming!
Cheers, Merry Christmas
No pasaran
Larry


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Subject: RE: Unsafe parts of town
From: catspaw49
Date: 16 Dec 00 - 09:23 PM

Hey guys, we're not exactly helping here. I've been to many of the cities on the list and lived in a few. Even the most docile ones have places that I'd rather not be. Dayton for instance is a kind of tough place if you're in any of the downtown surrounding area. That is, downtown is fine and all fixed up and the burbs are the usual burbs, but the area for about a two mile belt surrounding the downtown area is good to stay away from.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: Unsafe parts of town
From: InOBU
Date: 16 Dec 00 - 09:45 PM

Goodman yerself spaw... Larry


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Subject: RE: Unsafe parts of town
From: Hotspur
Date: 16 Dec 00 - 09:53 PM

I lived in New Orleans for two years. There are some very bad spots, usually right next to the very good spots. The French Quarter, for example, being a tourist magnet, attracts a lot of pickpockets...but it also is an exciting and lively place. It's also fantastic for music--don't miss Preservation Hall on St. Peter St., where they play old-timey jazz. Very hot. There is also, (or used to be) a free newspaper listing all the music and performances for the weekend, you should be able to find some music to your liking. Cajun, definitely, but everything else as well.

I would suggest that you ask at the hotel or wherever you're staying, about the current bad spots. They'll be happy to suggest places to stay away from. Keep your wits about you, don't walk around Bourbon, Basin, or St. Peter Streets drunk, act like you know where you're going, don't flash a lot of cash. (Those are pretty much good rules for any big city.) As for smaller towns nearby, Metairie is a nice place. And if you are driving through Louisiana anyway, see if you can work St. Francisville into your plans. It's in the north of the state, and has some absolutely gorgeous plantations.

Whew! I was on fire there for a minute. If you have other questions about N'Awlins, feel free to PM me. I'll answer if I can.


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Subject: RE: Unsafe parts of town
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 16 Dec 00 - 09:54 PM

Hey there Uncle Jaque, I know JUST what ya mean. Here's a few tips for ya.

If you're driving, keep your window open. That way, as soon as you hear the melifluous voice of Rush Limbaugh comin' from somebody's radio....well you MUST be in a bad part of town, so hitail it outta there fast!

Look for those Bush/Chaney bumper stickers as well. If ya see one, chances are the drivers' packin' heat. If he thinks you're one of them pro-choicers...well you just might end up with a Gold Charleton Heston bullet right through your pinko forehead.

Best way to stay safe though, is to memorize important life-saving philosophy...so repeat after me, "mega-dittos El Rushbo". You will forever be protected from having a conscience.

Rick (gunless in Toronto)


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Subject: RE: Unsafe parts of town
From: Matt_R
Date: 16 Dec 00 - 09:56 PM

I live in bad part of town. My apartment was busted into a few months ago...nothing was stolen. Strangely, valuables & money left in sight where ignored. But my closet shelf was messed up, and someone was looking under my bed at my Lord of the Rings audio cassettes. Bizarre. Probably looking for drugs.


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Subject: RE: Unsafe parts of town
From: SeanM
Date: 16 Dec 00 - 09:59 PM

I gotta say that one of the more amusing things in my town (Long Beach, CA)... the local crackhouse/whorehouse/by the hour hotel (in one of the few areas that I - at 6'5" and fairly cranky - won't go through on foot)has had Republican fliers in most of the windows during every election in the last 8 years.

Guess the Republicans ARE the party of 'free' enterprise!

M


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Subject: RE: Unsafe parts of town
From: The Shambles
Date: 17 Dec 00 - 06:49 AM

Matt this was not a real raid, just a 'Tolkien' effort.


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Subject: RE: Unsafe parts of town
From: Troll
Date: 17 Dec 00 - 12:18 PM

Shambles,you will be punished for that one.

troll ***LOL***


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Subject: RE: Unsafe parts of town
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Dec 00 - 04:06 PM

Nasty stuff can happen to you anywhere, I don't think it's possibkle to draw little red lines around areas and say thats where the danger lies.

Most dangerous place to be is driving on a fast and crowded road. That's where most people get killed.

In a strange place I suppose the best thing is not to look like you're a threatening or vulnerable outsider. And be aware that in all kinds of places making eye contact with a stranger is considered a threatening act.

But the world's a lot safer in general than you'd ever believe from what you read in the papers and see on TV. You're a lot more at risk travelling to most of those places, I suspect, then you would be in their roughest parts.


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Subject: RE: Unsafe parts of town
From: InOBU
Date: 17 Dec 00 - 05:02 PM

My wife and I where quiet fond of a little hotel in Boucherville - just outside of Montreal. We'd stop there on a friday night, late after driving up from NYC after work. have a great breakfast, and off to Quebec city in the morning - a recipe for a weekend jaunt to Quebec from New York. Well, one night late, we would generally get there around midnight or just after, we were having a quick drink in the bar of the hotel before bed. We fell to speaking to a nice fellow in our broken french... gave him our card and said look us up when you come to New York... another fellow kept pestering the fellow... so he fianlly said, Ok Ok Ok and took some money from the guy and gave him a glassene envelope! Jeeze, we just invited the local drug deeler to visit us! He never did, thank god.... Larry


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Subject: RE: Unsafe parts of town
From: kimmers
Date: 17 Dec 00 - 05:12 PM

I think it's important to draw a distinction between feeling that one's belongings are safe, and feeling that one's self is safe. Most of my staff mutters privately that my husband and I live in a 'bad' neighborhood. Yes, I've had my car window broken, and the same with my husband's truck. Yes, there's a schizophrenic up the street who wanders up and has conversations with the streetlight when he's off his meds.

But do I feel safe? Yes. I know just about everybody in a six-block radius. My neighbors know who belongs here and who is here to make trouble. I could bang on any door here and yell "help" and be let in (even by the schizophrenic; we know his mother). Will I walk around after dark without a male escort? Absolutely. Will I leave anything expensive out on my porch? Heck, no.

Life is too short to live in fear. I don't believe in taking foolish risks (such as driving under the influence or jumping out of a perfectly good airplane, or smoking) but I refuse to live in a walled enclave. I believe that so many people who do choose to live behind walls and bars or in gated communities do so in order that they never have to look upon poverty.

By the way, if you want a good idea of relative risks, just fill out a life insurance policy application.

Oregon isn't on the above travel list, so I won't give details, but I've never gone anywhere where I felt afraid or threatened.


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Subject: RE: Unsafe parts of town
From: Lepus Rex
Date: 17 Dec 00 - 06:15 PM

Last summer, when me and a co-worker (who comes from the country)were in Chicago, he fell asleep and I decided to drive around the city. I didn't wake him up 'til we were in a mainly black neighborhood. He sat straight up, bugged his eyes out, and said, 'Shit! This is a bad neighborhood! We're so dead... We're so dead...' Which it really wasn't, so I laughed at him.

Maybe he was just still nervous because some guys had tried to box us in against a burned out old van, presumably to rob us, an hour before. But why the Hell are people such cowards? I mean, a gun? All we had was a 2X4 between to seats of the van, and I felt more than safe.

And Uncle Jaque, have you ever thought that maybe if you didn't enter a 'bad' neighborhood with a gun and a condescending attitude, it might not BE a bad neighborhood for you? 'Tactical awareness and avoidance?' You go into ANY neighborhood looking paranoid and jittery and someone's going to give you some shit, Jaque. But you'll have your trusty firearm to take care of them, eh?

---Lepus Rex


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Subject: RE: Unsafe parts of town
From: Quincy
Date: 17 Dec 00 - 06:16 PM

I only have experience of your top two places Jimmy and I find that the darkness has the biggest effect on feelings of safety for me. I'm staying in the South of England at the moment and the nearest Irish club is in the red light district of the town which often causes problems when I travel in on my own to meet people inside!!

My strategy is to park as close as possible and walk fast....although it is a bit scary sometimes.br> No problems in the daylight though.....it's like a totally different place then!


Larry, (slight thread creep here!!)
Just saw you'd mentioned the Seaman's mission in Belfast. A friend of mine who is a Presbyterian minister in Belfast knows the mission clergy well and asked them to give me a personal tour of the place a few years ago....it is beautiful!

Yvonne


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Subject: RE: Unsafe parts of town
From: Jimmy C
Date: 17 Dec 00 - 06:39 PM

Thanks everybody, I will take all the advice, I guesss I should watch less shows like NYPD blues and the like, I have often heard that New York is amazing and I intend to go there now for sure. The other places I may or may not hit. We usually don't book anything in advance, we just get in the car, give the kids a rough itinerary and away we go, not realy knowing for sure where we may end up that night. The last trip when we drove from Toronto down through New York State, ,Pennsylvania,all the way down to Mississippi and back up through Arkansas, Missouri etc. was amazing, we met some wonderful people. WE were even invited to move and live among the residents of Crossville Tennessee, another guy in Kentucky wanted me to be his partner selling T-shirts at country fairs . Only Had one disagreement with a tourist in West Virginia who asked me where all the poor people lived, I guess he had just watched some movie like Deliverance, but that was the only negative aspect about the entire trip. Heard some great street musicians at various places and had the best chicken and ribs I ever tasted in Marlowes in Memphis, a few stoplights from Graceland. Note for InOBU, I know the Belfast Seamans Mission, used to drink beer and play snooker there every Wednesday afternoon back in the late 1950's. Thanks again everybody.


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Subject: RE: Unsafe parts of town
From: Bill D
Date: 17 Dec 00 - 06:59 PM

Parts of Wash DC can be unsafe to walk around after dark...but if you do the touristy things during the day, it's no real problem. (Downtown IS govt business area, so it clears out a lot after dark, but there are bars and such if you know where to go...still a lot of the best places are more in the suburbs....


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Subject: RE: Unsafe parts of town
From: InOBU
Date: 17 Dec 00 - 07:33 PM

Hi JimmyC - Do let Genie and I know if you are coming to New York, and we'll show you the sessiuns! I understand the seaman's mission has been torn down a few years ago, eh? Cheers, Larry


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Subject: RE: Unsafe parts of town
From: simon-pierre
Date: 17 Dec 00 - 08:00 PM

Sorry, InOBU, I failed to understand your story (my broken english...), but I must say that Québec city is a quiet and peaceful city (sometimes I find it TOO quiet). The best places (bars, folk clubs) to visit are fortunetaly in the safer place, the old city. JimmyC, if you're planning to come, PM me.

SP


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Subject: RE: Unsafe parts of town
From: InOBU
Date: 17 Dec 00 - 08:22 PM

Bon-jour Simon Pierrre!
I suppose the simplist way to put it is that even in the worst part of Montreal, the worst sort of folks, are OK in my book! Do you know my friends Andre Simoneau who plays the Hurdy Gurdy in Place d'Royal, or Nancy Lyons the harpest? I would add, and please correct me if I am wrong, but when visiting Quebec one should go to the restauraunt Latre on Orleans, about 15k north east of the city, and the creperie on ... is it Saint Michael? almost across the street from the big record shop... Au bien tot... Larry


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Subject: RE: Unsafe parts of town
From: Naemanson
Date: 17 Dec 00 - 08:24 PM

I guess I'm particularly thick or something. I have never felt afraid of being anywhere and have never taken any particular care about where I go. I refuse to walk around carrying a weapon and do not believe that respect and honesty will not protect me.

But then I'm just ignorant that way. Must be the small twon living and my refusal to let the commercial media scare me.


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Subject: RE: Unsafe parts of town
From: blt
Date: 18 Dec 00 - 04:46 AM

I've driven across the USA and parts of Canada,several times recently, alone. I didn't have any trouble, except once in a campground at the tip of Bruce Pennisula when some guy in a huge RV tried to steal my camping spot at 3:00am. However, that didn't stop me from being scared at times or worried that my guitar and mandolin were going to be stolen out of my car when I was asleep. I tried bringing them into my tent at night but then it became such a big production of unpacking at night then repacking in the morning...

I've lived/traveled in NYC, Boston, St. Louis, Seattle, San Francisco, Toledo, OH--I've had bad experiences in every city, some from my own foolishness and some from somebody else's. As a woman traveling and living alone, I'm rarely not scared if I'm passing through a city, it's just a reality of the culture I think--I remember riding on the subway in NYC after playing somewhere and just being terrified, even though nothing really happened. It's as though terror was a part of the scenery.


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Subject: RE: Unsafe parts of town
From: InOBU
Date: 18 Dec 00 - 08:27 AM

The NYC subways are really very safe. My wife comes home on the subway at all hours of the night when she is prepareing for trial. Of course she is a red haired Caven girl - with some fierce Scott thrown in, and a touch of Quebecois Gascon ...


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Subject: RE: Unsafe parts of town
From: simon-pierre
Date: 18 Dec 00 - 10:23 AM

InOBU, the creperie (le "Casse-crêpe") is on St-Jean st, nearby where I work. St-Jean st is the main street, you could not miss it if you're around. And the big recordstore is the Achambault I talked about in the other thread. SP


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Subject: RE: Unsafe parts of town
From: GUEST,rabbitrunning
Date: 18 Dec 00 - 10:44 AM

My experience has been that if you keep a distance, and walk away when someone goes "off" then even the whackos will leave you alone.

But during the daytime, it's okay to nod to people and make eye-contact. I do it all the time (and I work in one of the "bad" parts of Boston). People are generally really nice, if you're nice back.

A lot of it is attitude. Lepus Rex is right. If you go into a neighborhood looking for trouble, you'll find it! If you go looking for good music, well, chances are you'll find people who like good music -- and can tell you where to find it.

Good luck on your trip!


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Subject: RE: Unsafe parts of town
From: Mrrzy
Date: 18 Dec 00 - 11:00 AM

Feeling safe is one of the reasons I hope never to leave Charlottesville. I sometimes forget to lock my door when I go to work... I never lock my car unless I'm downtown... I'd walk almost anywhere without escort... I've never been broken down by the side of the road for any time without having (sincere) offers of help... but then again, we do have rapes and murders and thefts, so maybe I'm the idiot, but I *like* feeling safe.

I also agree with the point about the diff between one's belongings being safe, and one's self. There are parts of town I'd lock my car in but still feel OK walking back to it late at night alone. I can't think of any part of this town I'd worry for myself before my things.


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Subject: RE: Unsafe parts of town
From: GUEST,Roger the skiffler
Date: 18 Dec 00 - 11:28 AM

Maybe I've led a charmed life. I used to walk the 4 miles home to Erdington from the centre of Birmingham as a teen and twenty, if I missed the last 'bus. I lived and worked, and went mostly on foot, in New Cross, Deptford and Peckham for 5 years and the only time I was attacked was on the tube in central London by a drunken football "fan". He was too drunk to land a punch with any force, fortunately, but to add insult to injury he was an Aston Villa supporter (as I was in my youth!).
Now I only have to avoid drunken hooray henries after race meetings in Ascot!
RtS


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Subject: RE: Unsafe parts of town
From: InOBU
Date: 18 Dec 00 - 11:53 AM

Simon Pierre: St Jean Street, that's the one! The Casse-crêpe was a small six table and counter place that a few years ago opened up a second room? Whenever I would take law students up to Mani Utenam, north of Sept Illes, we would make sure our break in the driving involved a good long stop there. We should have a mudcat music party there, sometime if they ever have a season where they are not packed! After that we can all break the new busking licence law in Quebec, which many of my Quebecois folkie friends are offended by! I can smell the lovely sent from Les Ancient Canadians, on St. Louis, as I write this... and the lobster at the restaurant and bicycle shop on Ille Au Coudre! If I don't stop daydreaming about Quebec, I am going to start walking north!
La Bottine Souriante est la!
Cheers,
Larry


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Subject: RE: Unsafe parts of town
From: sophocleese
Date: 18 Dec 00 - 12:12 PM

I like walking places. I like walking at night in falling snow. I love walking late on steamy August nights. I have walked all over this town at night. I walk with speed and half an eye out for strange looking people but mostly I feel safe enough. I figure I'm not out to hurt anybody and the streets are safer if there are more people like me out there.


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Subject: RE: Unsafe parts of town
From: mousethief
Date: 18 Dec 00 - 12:25 PM

I once walked from the Jimmy Carter Center to the Martin Luther King Jr. Memorial in Atlanta. Alone.

I was later told it was the absolutely most dangerous part of Atlanta I had casually strolled through. I didn't notice any danger. Didn't notice a lot of other white faces either, but having lived near black neighborhoods in Chicago, and delivered mail in black neighborhoods in Seattle, that never really bothered me. I was a stranger in *any* neighborhood I entered in Atlanta, and if it wasn't obvious from the color of my face, it would be as soon as I opened my mouth to speak.

Granted, it was during the day, and I'm 6'4" and weighed about 250# (at the time).

One person talked to me. He complimented my hat.

When we stop thinking about people who are different from us as "THOSE people" and start thinking of them as being people a whole hell of a lot like us, with families, dreams, wishes, jobs, prized heirlooms from great-grandmama, then we come to see that the "dangerous" people are really a very tiny fraction of the population, and most of us are trying to get along and do right and be good employees/parents/spouses/siblings/offspring to the best of our abilities.

I have met the enemy, and he isn't.

Alex


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Subject: RE: Unsafe parts of town
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Dec 00 - 12:48 PM

Nowhere's "safe" and never has been. Lightning can strike anywhere. But you really are pretty safe in most places, if you use your head. Don't look threatening or scornful, don't look like a walking bank-roll.

I liked the irony of someone from Belfast asking about the risks involved in visiting America. Not because it's not a perfectly reasonable thing to ask - the statistics indicate that there's always been more likelihood of getting shot in some parts of America than there ever was in Belfast, even at the height of the troubles. But the question runs slap up against the kind of stereotypes that terrify the tourist boards any time there's a shooting or a bomb anywhere in Europe, because of the holiday cancellations by people living in places that are probably more dangerous to start with.

I think the main thing I'd be worried about would be that some respectable gun-packing member of the citizenry might think I looked like some kind of undesirable intruder. (Uncle J perhaps...)


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Subject: RE: Unsafe parts of town
From: InOBU
Date: 18 Dec 00 - 01:51 PM

Good point McGrath: When I was knocking around Belfast in 77, folks would ask me why I was there, things in New York were rather hot then, so I'd tell em as joke I was there for the peace and quiet! Larry


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Subject: RE: Unsafe parts of town
From: Jimmy C
Date: 18 Dec 00 - 04:05 PM

McGrath, I did not mean to imply that I currently live in Belfast. I am originally from there but now live in Canada. It's just that everytime I go back home, the areas have all changed. A once catholic area is now a protestant area and visa-versa. Plus some of the respectable areas that once were safe are not anymore. Also the street that I was brought up in is still the same except nobody knows me anymore and I have to be cautious when looking round the old stomping grounds. Since the troubles started,there is a genuine suspicion and fear of strangers and I don't fault them for that, Hopefully it is better now that there is some semblance of peace.

I guess your right, most places are ok if you use caution.

Larry, you are correct, the Seamans Mission was demolished to make way for new development. It used to be by Corporation Street/ Garmoyle Street area of the docks. I imagine they will have a new one since a lot of foreign ships come in there.


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Subject: RE: Unsafe parts of town
From: Joe Offer
Date: 18 Dec 00 - 06:41 PM

For 25 years, I worked as a U.S. Government investigator. Most of my work was in California and the West, but I worked or wandered most of the U.S. at one time or another in my 25 years. I was armed with a black U.S. Government ballpoint pen. I worked every part of every town I visited, knocking on doors to talk to the neighbors fo security clearance applicants. In all that time, I was threatened only once - a political appointee of a Republican governor pointed his rifle at me, because he was afraid. I assume he was a Republican because of his job. We had a very nice conversation once I got him settled down.

I don't think there's many places in this world where you really have to be afraid. If you stand tall and walk with confidence and a smile on your face, people will treat you well. Now I admit that at five feet eight inches, it's a bit hard for me to stand tall - but it seems to work. I suppose it may be safer to stick to areas where there are lots of people. I know many areas of New York, Washington DC, San Francisco, Chicago, Boston, and Los Angeles where it's very comfortable to walk alone at night. Just stay where the people are.
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Unsafe parts of town
From: rabbitrunning
Date: 18 Dec 00 - 07:41 PM

Ha! Joe, you just reminded me of my first visit to New York. I lived in Denver at the time, but I had a friend who lived in Brooklyn, and she was letting me stay with her while we both attended a convention. One night, walking home, she started to get nervous, and I couldn't understand why. It was because she couldn't see anyone on the street but us! Whereas I was only nervous when I could see other people whose intentions I wasn't sure about.

It's taken 12 years of living in Boston for me to come around to her point of view...


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Subject: RE: Unsafe parts of town
From: InOBU
Date: 18 Dec 00 - 07:57 PM

HEY JOE: I'd be alot more scared of that GI pen than MarkS' Walthers P-thirtywhatchamacllit! Just kidding, - Larry
PS A friend who was in an active service unit in NI has a very funny story about a Walthers and the wee hex nut which holds the barrel on. One day he was running down the stares with some soldiers close behind him. He heard a ringing, the barrel of his gun following him down the stares. The wee hex had gone walkabout. So he and a few of the lads welded the barrel to the body of the weapon. First serrious firefight he was in, thereafter - the first shot, the barrel landed about three feet in front of him and the bullet not far beyond that, rolling away. So, maybe Uncle Jaque and everyone should carry around a Walthers sans hex, just for yucks when things get serrious. Nothing like a good laugh to end a fight eh?


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Subject: RE: Unsafe parts of town
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 18 Dec 00 - 09:21 PM

Joe you stand tall in MY eyes!

Seriously folks, sure there can be danger. If you were poor, desparate, and verrry angry, you'd be dangerous too, but it's simply not as bad as some would make it out to be. Just use normal caution, and don't get caught up in political agendas.

'Course ya don't walk up to a drug dealer and say, "Hey isn't that supposed to be illegal"?

Rick


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Subject: RE: Unsafe parts of town
From: InOBU
Date: 18 Dec 00 - 09:25 PM

Hi Rick: My wife actually does say that to drug deelers, or more to the point, one fellow would say to her, every night, as she walked down the our street, "cess? cess? Cess?..." (a local brandname for a heroin product) Genie lost it and said, "Look, EVERY night for years you ask me if I want to buy heroin from you, WHAT you thing TONIGHT'S THE NIGHT?!?!?!?!?" He looked quite sheepish... so she tells me.
Cheers,
Larry


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Subject: RE: Unsafe parts of town
From: catspaw49
Date: 18 Dec 00 - 09:32 PM

Hey Jimmy......As others have noted, if you're making this jaunt, there are 'Catters living in and around a lot of the places you mentioned. I hope you'll let us know if and when you'll be travelling. We're pretty good at keeping track of folks on the road and I know a lot of us would like to meet you. I live between Dayton and Wheeling in southeast Ohio and I'd be happy to meet you either place, even if its just for coffee and a couple of tunes in a parking lot!

Keep us posted huh?

Spaw


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Subject: RE: Unsafe parts of town
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 19 Dec 00 - 12:18 AM

Catspaw said

"I'd be happy to meet you either place, even if its just for coffee and a couple of tunes in a parking lot!"

I dunno. I'd be leery about approaching a guy with a stick dulcimer in one hand and free coffee in the other. Especially in a parking lot.

Rick


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Subject: RE: Unsafe parts of town
From: Jimmy C
Date: 19 Dec 00 - 12:30 AM

Thanks,I'll remember that


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Subject: RE: Unsafe parts of town
From: Troll
Date: 19 Dec 00 - 12:50 AM

With maybe Cletus and Paw and the rest of the crew following him. The mind boggles.

troll *BG*


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Subject: RE: Unsafe parts of town
From: catspaw49
Date: 19 Dec 00 - 01:00 AM

You're definitely better off in front of that pack troll....for odious....uh no, make that obvious reasons.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: Unsafe parts of town
From: GUEST,Fibula Mattock
Date: 19 Dec 00 - 09:39 AM

Larry - Stella Maris, the Seamans' Mission, is still there on Gamoyle Street. My friend, working with his father's building company, helped refurbish it a few years ago, and I think it's been done up yet again. I'm not sure if it's the same one that's always been in that spot, but it's there now.


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Subject: RE: Unsafe parts of town
From: InOBU
Date: 19 Dec 00 - 10:01 AM

Gorra maith agut, Fibula Mattock! Is it the Salvation Army Seamen's mission? - Larry


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Subject: RE: Unsafe parts of town
From: GUEST,Roger the skiffler
Date: 19 Dec 00 - 10:52 AM

The other memory this thread brought back was of the three years I spent at University in Cardiff. My lodgings were across the road from a house wherein dwelt two young ladies in short skirts and badly bleached hair who were VERY popular. Men visited them at all hours of the day and night, though they didn't stay long and they didn't seem interested in the pre-school kids they had who were put out to play in the gutter during the day (fortunately not much traffic then!).
My housemates and I found this fascinating (but didn't tell our parents!). Our landlady used to shake her head and sniff eloquently at the spectacle: "Dew dew, Ach Y Fi!"!
RtS


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Subject: RE: Unsafe parts of town
From: CarolC
Date: 20 Dec 00 - 03:04 AM

It's probably important for women to remember that we are probably at greater risk than men wherever we go. A good cell phone and a can of pepper spray are probably as good as a gun in most situations in which we find ourselves. And we should excercise caution about walking near dark alleys, or carrying ourselves with a look of uncertainty. And vigilance is always a good thing.

But this is as true in conservative strongholds as it is in liberal ones, because people who prey on women come from all political persuasions, all racial and ethnic groups, and all socio-economic strata.

Some of my scariest experiences have occurred in rural areas and small towns. So I'm careful wherever I go.

Carol

P.S. And like Joe Offer, the only time I've ever had a gun pointed at me, it was in the hands of a Republican. My ex-husband and I had parked in his parking area, mistakenly thinking it belonged to some friends we were trying to visit.

And then there was the time, out in the middle of nowhere, when a hunter took a shot right over my shoulder at a pheasant that was in the road right in front of me.

And then there were the hunters (again, out in the middle of nowhere), who aimed shots right through my yard at groundhogs that lived in the hillside behind my house. When I had a small child who might have been playing in the yard. All of this in a mostly Republican county where the local newspaper was called "The Republican". So pardon me if I don't trust Republicans with guns.


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Subject: RE: Unsafe parts of town
From: Joe Offer
Date: 20 Dec 00 - 03:20 AM

Oh, well, if you're talking hunters, Carol - long ago, I found out it was a big mistake to go canoeing in Wisconsin in the Fall. It was a perfect afternoon for canoeing, until I realized the lake was surrounded by duck blinds, full of drunk guys with guns...
I cut that canoe trip short.
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Unsafe parts of town
From: Seth
Date: 20 Dec 00 - 10:28 AM

I used to live on San Pablo Avenue, near the Emeryville line, in Oakland, Ca. That area is being yuppified now, but then (1974) it was sometimes a dangerous place to live. Our rule of thumb was, if we only heard six shots or less outside, we wouldn't call the police, because they wouldn't come anyway. More than six, someone was either reloading or shooting back, so we would call. We had the Swami Muktananda Ashram at one end of the block, and the Golden Eagles Black biker gang at the other. It made for the most interesting Sunday afternoons as each group tried to ignore the other's existence. BUt like everywhere else I've lived, it was as dangerous as you made it. Plenty of working class neighbors, got to know 'em, they knew what was what, and we all looked out for each other. I had my place ripped off twice, and once an old guy on the street told me he didn't like me, didn't like white people at all. Worse things could have happened to me if I had been trying to be a drug dealer or a pimp there, but I wasn't into that, so people were either friendly or left us alone. There were plenty of local shops and stores and we made sure that all the merchants knew who we were. My wife felt pretty safe there. We did have a rather large Australian Shepard, who growled at people he didn't like, but even he said that guarding property was not in his contract, as we came home to our cleaned out apartment. They left my guitar, though, and didn't hurt my dog, so I was able to let all that go. I got a lot of good stories from living there, but my kids are sure that I'm making them up!

Seth from China


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Subject: RE: Unsafe parts of town
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Dec 00 - 01:11 PM

"It's probably important for women to remember that we are probably at greater risk than men wherever we go."

Well, as I undwerstand them, the statistics don't bear that out, and the mklst likely person to get injured on the streets (leaving aside miotor cars etc) would be a young man. But statistics can mean anything, and maybe some of those young men were asking for trouble (it's ok saying that about young men isn't it?), and pepper spray and phone sounds a good idea.

But a really powerful scream or yell is worth practising as well. Most people don't realise how loud the human voice can get, and they never build up the technique. Folk singers have an advantage here.

A bag of pepper is cheaper than a spray, and as effective - and it doesn't run a risk of being classed as an offensive weapon. My mother always used to carry one out on the pampas of Argentina, in case she ran into bandidos. The only time she did, she didn't have to use it - he was a perfect gentleman, just tried to chat her up.


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Subject: RE: Unsafe parts of town
From: kimmers
Date: 20 Dec 00 - 01:42 PM

McGrath, I agree totally. Women may be at more risk for jeers and catcalls, but actual severe violence from strangers... nope, pretty unusual. Usually if we're beaten up, it's by someone we know.

When I'm working late and finishing up charts, inevitably one of my nurses hangs around so that we can walk out to our cars together. This cracks me up. I know that they all mean well, but come on! I have attitude and confidence and common sense. I look inside my car before I unlock the door. I walk briskly, and try to act like I own the place (okay, I do). How is a 5 foot tall hundred-pound nurse supposed to protect me from rapists and thugs? They don't do this to my male colleagues.


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Subject: RE: Unsafe parts of town
From: GUEST,Art Thieme
Date: 20 Dec 00 - 01:58 PM

If I were you I'd stay away from any capital city of any state in the USA where they have Supreme Court buildings-----especially the nation's capital Washington DC where the big hotshot court is located. One never knows what they'll do. They profess to be moral leaders but they have been known to act in the name of whatever ism and hue is currently reflected by their majority. In the 1960s it seems to me they were actually legislating in favor of the left (if you are inclined to believe the right wingers). And recently they have once again created law by diciding on their own who won a national election for the presidency of the country. If power is the extent to which you can inconvenience others, then those nine individuals have shown their willingness to wield it in ways that discommode people of all races, religions, quirks and predispositions. In that sense, at least, they are admirably consistent. Being predictably consistent is hardly enough of an asset to outweigh their obvious disdain for the will of the people they supposedly serve. Indeed, their hautinesses seem willing and able to do whatever they want to do at any given moment. And that's what's so scary about the DC area in these modern times---more than any danger from any piddling little street gang.

Art Thieme


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Subject: RE: Unsafe parts of town
From: InOBU
Date: 20 Dec 00 - 03:53 PM

Good on ya Art! - Larry


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Subject: RE: Unsafe parts of town
From: CarolC
Date: 20 Dec 00 - 05:13 PM

McGrath of Harlow, I'm assuming that sexual assault and domestic violence are not included in the statistical numbers you have been looking at.

kimmers, sometimes attitude just won't cut it. But as you say, common sense helps.

Carol


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Subject: RE: Unsafe parts of town
From: Bert
Date: 20 Dec 00 - 05:17 PM

I was walking in Tehran one evening in the middle of the revolution; this was after most ex-pats had left on the evacuation flights with on piece of hand luggage.
I saw these three tough looking Iranians approaching. They said 'Go home Yank'. Well I was English then, so it struck me as funny and I shook my head and laughed. After an initial surprised look they too started laughing and they walked on past.
So yes Larry and Joe a smile can work wonders.

Bert.


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Subject: RE: Unsafe parts of town
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Dec 00 - 05:45 PM

When it comes to violence on the streets I think thta is how the figures work out. Proportionately more young men do get killed than any other section of society, in England anyway. But official statistics only tell a part of what goes on. Most violence never gets reported anyway.

I don't think there's much point in setting up competitions about that kind of thing. Too much violence anyway. I suspect there may well actually be less of it than there was one time, but it's more visible. But that's just a guess.


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Subject: RE: Unsafe parts of town
From: CarolC
Date: 20 Dec 00 - 06:48 PM

Sorry if I gave the wrong impression. I don't have in mind to start a competition. I just think that it's not helpful to women to give them (us) the impression that we don't have to take precautions for our personal safety (anywhere, not just in cities). I was concerned that some of the things said in this thread might have that effect. The fact is that as women, we have to take responsibility for our safety, and that starts with knowing about the dangers we face, using common sense, and being prepared.

I think if we do that, we probably don't have too much to worry about. (Except maybe during hunting season.)

Carol


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Subject: RE: Unsafe parts of town
From: kimmers
Date: 20 Dec 00 - 10:36 PM

Domestic violence is definitely a whole 'nother ball game; same with sexual offenders in the home.

I would far rather walk through darkened city streets alone that spend five minutes alone in the same room with my mom's boyfriend who molested me when I was a teenager. He still makes me feel powerless and afraid, and I HATE that. In any other situation, I'm brave and bold.

The ironic thing? My mother wouldn't let me set foot out of the house at night by myself, for fear of "weirdos". She should have been worrying about someone much closer to home.


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Subject: RE: Unsafe parts of town
From: blt
Date: 21 Dec 00 - 12:21 AM

CarolC, thanks for your comments. I do think it's a very different thing to walk around urban (or rural) neighborhoods as a woman vs as a man, and that unless one has done that, it's difficult to imagine what it feels like. Reading this thread, I was beginning to feel that all I needed to do was to develop a walk like John Wayne or his British counterpart, speak in a loud voice, have peace in my heart and love toward all humankind, and all would be well. Having said that, I also think that probably, the worst case scenario as far as the USA is concerned would be to be a young Black, Latino, or Native man or woman walking in an upperclass, white neighborhood.


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Subject: RE: Unsafe parts of town
From: Seth
Date: 21 Dec 00 - 06:42 AM

The most dangerous place I know is the woods in Northwest Pennsylvania during any kind of hunting season. I've actually known more people who got shot there than in Oakland, San Francisco, Seattle, Mexico City or other places on the planet where I have lived.

Seth from China


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Subject: RE: Unsafe parts of town
From: Ella who is Sooze
Date: 21 Dec 00 - 10:29 AM

Right...

Dublin....

The main thing in Dublin at the moment, is the amount of pick pocketing that is going on. THere are a lot of opportunists around, so therefore as long as you are wise with your belongings, and don't put them on the floor, turn around for a moment, or put them down to use the cash point for example then you should be okay. Watch your handbags, and pockets - two of my friends have been mugged in this way there lately, though one of them did put her luggage down and for a split second not have her eyes on it.

North of Dublin is usually good for sessions, temple bar area some sessions do go on, though you may find that someo them are 'paid' sessions... Also the sessions sometimes have an odd mix... Of course there are areas you shouldn't be in at night, but just use your commone sense and keep your wits about you.

But as far as anything else go, it is not as bad as it is made out - I love Dublin.

I was in Baltimore about 3 years ago...

Fells point area and the old parts of town were nice for bars etc... and the harbour area, with marina etc was lovely. Yes there is a high crime rate there... So be extremely street wise, and don't put yourself at risk... I did actually have very scary situation on the lightrail train that took us through an area called Cherry Hill. I was so scared that I got a cab all the way home from Baltimore city, instead of travelling back on the train... Was almost robbed of my shoes! Which a certain amount of talking, and the fact the train got us to the station on time only saved me.... I preferred to pay the $50 taxi fee back to the house...

I like Baltimore though, the boat trips area good, and a visit to the aquarium is recommended... Just don't go through Cherry Hill!!!!

Oh and when you get a cab... just make sure your driver actaully knows where he is going... Ours kept having to stop all the time.

Washington - We caught the train in there... no problems at all there... except someone again checking out my shoes (I stopped wearing them after that) The tourist tram ride round Washington is fully recommended as a great way of seeing the city...

Though one Japanese tourist was told not to flash her $1000 note she was trying to pay the tram guy with... Washington, (central) was very clean, and I loved it there.

I Can't reiterate enough though..... DON'T STOP IN CHERRY HILL - IT MAY SOUND PRETTY - BUT IT ISN'T!

My friends husband went nuts when he found out where we had been... he said even he wouldn't travel through there...

Ella


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Subject: RE: Unsafe parts of town
From: Lepus Rex
Date: 21 Dec 00 - 10:32 AM

Even driving during hunting season is dangerous. I don't care much about the HUNTERS who get shot out there- they're out there to kill, so I think they should be prepared to die. But every I hear about some motorist who gets blasted by some jackass hunter's shotgun, or someone getting shot through their window at home. So I guess I don't feel too bad when I shoot out the back windows of their parked trucks (with a b-b gun). Heh.

---Lepus Rex


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Subject: RE: Unsafe parts of town
From: Jimmy C
Date: 21 Dec 00 - 12:41 PM

Ella,
Thanks, I'll steer clear of Cherry Hill, sounds like the pits.
I also like Dublin a lot, even with the street urchin pickpockets.


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Subject: RE: Unsafe parts of town
From: CarolC
Date: 21 Dec 00 - 03:45 PM

Part of my Dec. 20, 6:48 post keeps disappearing. Why does this seem only to happen to my posts? (Yeah, I'm paranoid, but that's beside the point.)

Carol


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Subject: RE: Unsafe parts of town
From: Uncle Jaque
Date: 21 Dec 00 - 08:08 PM

Gee, I never realized what an insensitive, pathological, homophobic, paranoid, sociopathic cretan I was 'till all these perceptive, tolerant, enlightened, non-judgemental colleages (some of whom spell even more creatively than I do)generously revealed it to me! It's been nothing short of an epiphonal experience!

I'm going to turn a lew leaf and re-join the civilized human race right away; surrender all my weapons of mass destruction and politically incorrect (for those of us in the unwashed masses class that is) accessories and sharp pointy things, and enroll myself in a local rectification center for sensitivity training. I'll put that right on my list of "Things to Do"... now where did I put those blasted crayons...????


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Subject: RE: Unsafe parts of town
From: InOBU
Date: 21 Dec 00 - 08:49 PM

Eh Jaque:
Before you do, drop in at the Mudcat night before Christmas, and leave a verse!
Merry Christmas,
Larry
PS I am not anti guns\rifles etc. In fact, I do a wee bit of antique gunsmithing myself, and am a rather accomplished marksman, I just would say that in most cases, guns don't make you safe, acting human does, and republican nieghborhoods are oft as dangerous, if not worce than any others...Homophobic??? but I digress... Merry Christas, mec.


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Subject: RE: Unsafe parts of town
From: GUEST,Barry
Date: 21 Dec 00 - 09:34 PM

Don't be so hard on yourself, Jaqueass. You're simply an asshole who thinks himself too clever by half.

Most have the good sense to ignore you.


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Subject: RE: Unsafe parts of town
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Dec 00 - 12:37 AM

As a blue dem voter (in deep red texas, no less), who has a cwc permit, and years of private investigation\private security experience, I have to join the group largely disparaging the idea that guns make you safe in bad places. My army survival instructor made a lasting impression on me with a couple of hairy stories where people in bad places got hands on a gun and made a fatal mistake based on the confidence that the magic gun gave them.

A watchful attitude and a wee bit of common sense will carry you through most situations. There is most definitely a place for the right person to carry and a right person to carry in just about any place, but to base your travel plans on ammo availability takes the shine off the trip. I'd say if you're really concerned with the places you're gonna go to, contact a local. On a placelike this you can certainly find a friendly, like-minded person who would be a blast to pal around with. Such a person would probably make a trip a lot more memorable anyway.

Just my two cents (and with the length of this post, maybe a bit of change to spare...)

RedCelt Jeff


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Subject: RE: Unsafe parts of town
From: Ella who is Sooze
Date: 22 Dec 00 - 04:47 AM

Jacques, sarcasm really isn't becoming...

As far as the spelling thing goes... I, for one have a huge problem with spelling, due mainly to the fact that I am dyslexic. Not always a problem for me, only when I loose concentration.

Now, this doesn't stop me - I can only apologise for my bad spelling. So, before you go on about people's spelling, just think yourself! There may be a perfectly good reason why this is so.

(Now, not being able to spell doesn't mean you are thick either... I managed to get a perfectly respectable 2:1 with honors degree - which yes meant I had to really struggle with my spelling. But I knew what I wanted to say, and did it).

Others who submit to this forum, do I am sure have similar difficulties, so before you are quick to whip out the sarcasm, think....

Besides, your grammar was absolutely terrible my dear...

Ella


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Subject: RE: Unsafe parts of town
From: Ella who is Sooze
Date: 22 Dec 00 - 05:11 AM

Ha haaa.. Roger...

Ach Y Fi definately... I work in Cardiff - NO it wasn't me...

I love Cardiff, it is such a nice place, and the majority of people are friendly.

It is a very lively place - fairly big city with a nice sense of community about it...

Ta ta ton toc

Ella


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Subject: RE: Unsafe parts of town
From: InOBU
Date: 22 Dec 00 - 08:59 AM

Hey Ella,
I have a learning dysability as well, sort of the inverce of dyslexia, but a sequencing problem, as is your's. Unfortunatley, this mudcat format makes spell checking such a time consuming effort, writing in another program, spell checking, cut and paste, reformat, that I hope our friends will be understanding. As far as a guage of content... without special accomodation I was able to get into the fifth rated law school in the US, it became the 3rd rated school while I was attending, having passed Columbia. Personally I don't mind a well meaning touch of sarcasm, as long as the guns are not present or loaded!
Cheers
Larry


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Subject: RE: Unsafe parts of town
From: Ella who is Sooze
Date: 22 Dec 00 - 09:35 AM

Well, I agree Larry...

I actually find some sarcasm fairly funny, not though when it is as you say, loaded etc...

My group of friends - who all survive fairly well on sarcasm struggled this weekend, when one newcomer to the group, didn't understand sarcasm at all took all the retorts as black and white... And well.. we all had fun explaining.

I hope you all have an excellent holiday season... I can't wait, sessions abound... lots of gigs to do - and already planning all next years small tour gigs...

2.40, my boss is taking us all out for drinks and then I can skedaddle home, down the motorway - pick up my flute and bodhran and PARTY!

All the best

Slainte...

Ella


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Subject: RE: Unsafe parts of town
From: Uncle Jaque
Date: 22 Dec 00 - 11:21 AM

Contention hardly befits the season, mates, as stimulating as it may be.

Respectfully submitting to the Spirit of said season, I hereby raise the flag of "Truce", at least for the duration of this long weekend, and wish ye all a safe, joyous, and memorable Celebration... with whatever blessings might come yer way!

Shalom.


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Subject: RE: Unsafe parts of town
From: InOBU
Date: 22 Dec 00 - 12:01 PM

Shalom agus Slan, old pal - Larry


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Subject: RE: Unsafe parts of town
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Dec 00 - 12:54 PM

I'm good at spelling normally, honest. It's just the threads here always seem to do something to me. I read through to check. Then,just as I push the button, there's always something I've missed. Sometimes quite a lot.


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Subject: RE: Unsafe parts of town
From: Bert
Date: 22 Dec 00 - 01:03 PM

Actually, we have a program here at Mudcat that automatically changes a random letter or two the moment it senses your cursor near the submit button.


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Subject: RE: Unsafe parts of town
From: CarolC
Date: 23 Dec 00 - 02:40 AM

Hey bert...

What about my posts that go half missing?

Carol


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Subject: RE: Unsafe parts of town
From: Seth
Date: 23 Dec 00 - 09:55 AM

I've had great Christmases in lousy neighborhoods, and lousy Christmases in fancy ones. May you have a good holiday wherever you may be.

Seth from China


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Subject: RE: Unsafe parts of town
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 23 Dec 00 - 05:18 PM

I would have to take issue with blt's contention that "probably, the worst case scenario as far as the USA is concerned would be to be a young Black, Latino, or Native man or woman walking in an upperclass, white neighborhood."
The worst thing that would happen would be they would find themselves stopped by a patrol car and questioned.

Having said that, I have walked alone through parts of Miami at 3am.where no white American would dream of venturing and never experienced a problem. Maybe, as Larry said, it helps to be redhaired and Celtic. (Being six foot tall might help as well) I believe it is even more important not to have a victim mentality.

Murray


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Subject: RE: Unsafe parts of town
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Dec 00 - 05:25 PM

I think it was Quentin Crisp who said of New Yorkers that they were the nicest people in the world, except when they were trying to kill you. (But he'd have said it better.)


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Subject: RE: Unsafe parts of town
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 23 Dec 00 - 05:45 PM

Yep McGrath. My all-time philosophical hero said that "any American who doesn't want to murder you will be your best friend for life".

As someone who's travelled fairly extensively, I can say that Americans are definitely the most approachable folk. For some bizarre reason, I enjoy starting up conversations with strangers. In most countries (including my own) ya get strange looks. Not in America though.

Rick


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Subject: RE: Unsafe parts of town
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Dec 00 - 05:55 PM

You'd be all right in Ireland with that attitude, Rick.


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Subject: RE: Unsafe parts of town
From: Ella who is Sooze
Date: 23 Dec 00 - 06:39 PM

This is true McGrath

I end up talking to all sorts of people - it's great... Jaque...peace and all to you too.

I think the basic thing is walk with a certain attitude, don't put yerself at risk and have fun

Cheers all!

Ella


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Subject: RE: Unsafe parts of town
From: InOBU
Date: 23 Dec 00 - 09:07 PM

Ah Brother MacLeod! You absoultly said it! There is a grounds for a search by police, in the US, a potentialy danger moment for the searchee, (more than for the searcher statisticly speaking...) those grounds being "racially out of place" ie. black in a white neighborhood. Now, my crim law teacher - an ex-prosicutor was defending this, saying a white in a black neighborhood could also be searched for the same reason. A young progressive woman in the front row, said, No... that does not happen. The fact that it can happen does not make the law right... The professor began saying, No, you don't get it... She lost it and began to roar at him, NO YOU DONT F**KING GET IT! YOU DON"T GET IT, and then she slammed her book shut and let class to cool off. That about sums it up.
Well said MacLeod!
Larry


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