 sj |
||
|
||
Origin: Killiecrankie
DigiTrad:
KILLIECRANKIE
Related thread:
Killiecrankie:Anyone play it? (56)
|
|
|
Subject: background on Killiecrankie From: Charcloth Date: 23 Dec 00 - 05:19 PM I have been listening to the Corries do "Killiecrankie" and allthough I roughly know what the song is about I really can't tell you by the words maybe I just don't know enough Scottish history or Scotts words . Any way could one of you fine folks explain the different verses to me I would greatly appreciate it |
|
Subject: RE: background on Killiecrankie From: Malcolm Douglas Date: 23 Dec 00 - 08:46 PM You could do worse (for a start) than have a look at this discussion from last year: Killiecrankie:Anyone play it? which contains some useful background information. Malcolm |
|
Subject: Lyr Add: KILLIECRANKIE From: Jimmy C Date: 23 Dec 00 - 10:47 PM Charcloth: This is a little of what I have on the song, it's by no means complete, I got this off the Internet somewhere, just can't remember where. I believe there may have been more information there as well. Maybe some Scot can decipher words like Brankie-o, Cantie-o, bauld pitchur, Furr, Clavers. I hope this helps. KILLIECRANKIE
Whaur hae ye been sae braw, lad?
An' ye had been whaur I hae been
I fought at land, I fought at sea
The bauld pitcur fell in a furr
Oh fie, MacKay, What gart ye lie
It's nae shame, it's nae shame Refers to battle in 1689, where winner, Graham of Claverhouse (Bonnie Dundee) was slain, ending Jacobite hopes. Printed in Buchan and Hall's The Scottish Folksinger. Recorded by Ewan MacColl. SOF |
|
Subject: RE: background on Killiecrankie From: Charcloth Date: 23 Dec 00 - 11:18 PM thanks folks but thus far I still am puzzled perhaps if I lay out the references that bamboozle me some one can help me go "duh". In the 1st verse who is he refering to as dressing guadily (brankie). Next who was the "bold pitcur" & what was his fate. Last who was MacKay & what did he do? Thanks again |
|
Subject: RE: background on Killiecrankie From: Fiolar Date: 24 Dec 00 - 05:26 AM MacKay was General Hugh Mackay (c1640 - 1692). He served under Monmouth in Europe and later transferred his allegience to William of Orange. He was recalled to England in 1685 to fight against Monmouth in the rebellion of that year. He then returned to Europe and in 1688 returned to England with William. He was made commander-in-chief of the Williamite forces in Scotland and marched against Claverhouse (Bonnie Dundee). Although the winners at Killiecrankie, the Jacobites lost the charasmatic Dundee and later suffered a defeat at Cromdale. See the ballad, The Haughs of Cromdale. MacKay after a period of service in Ireland was killed in the Netherlands. M |
|
Subject: RE: background on Killiecrankie From: John Nolan Date: 24 Dec 00 - 07:15 AM gled = a bird like a kite or a buzzard; or a rapacious, greedy person |
|
Subject: RE: background on Killiecrankie From: GUEST,Murray on Saltspring Date: 25 Dec 00 - 04:29 AM The song is addressed to a soldier, asked why he's all kitted out and where he's been. Pitcur, who fell in a furr, was Haliburton of Pitcur [a fine old Pictish place-name], fighting on Dundee's side, who fell in a drainage ditch. The speaker is evidently on the other side, that of Mackay. This song, to a great traditional tune of maybe the same date as the battle, is not completely folk, because it was certainly fiddled with by Burns. |
|
Subject: RE: background on Killiecrankie From: Charcloth Date: 25 Dec 00 - 09:41 AM Thank you Murray & Fiolar you helped quite a bit. Merry Christmas to you |
|
Subject: RE: background on Killiecrankie From: GUEST,John McElwain Date: 25 Jul 02 - 12:18 PM As to the rest of the terms in question: "brankie-o" - refers to a spruce tree, meaning that the young soldier that the veteran is talking to appears strong and hearty. "cantie-o" - means light-hearted or merry. The veteran is annoyed with the young man's flippant attitude and demeanor. "furr" - furrow. [See explanation above by GUEST.Murray on Saltspring] "Clavers" - the name given Bonnie Dundee by his enemies, usually "Bluidy Clavers." It is short for Claverhouse. John Graham was lord of Claverhouse before being created Viscount Dundee by James VII. |
|
Subject: RE: background on Killiecrankie From: CET Date: 02 Apr 08 - 06:53 PM Just a few words that still escape me: It's nae shame to shank ye-o There's sour slaes on Athol braes Can anyone help? |
|
Subject: RE: background on Killiecrankie From: GUEST,Billy Date: 02 Apr 08 - 08:56 PM Shank is a leg and to shank-it is to run away. Slaes are SLOES - the fruit of the Blackthorn. Very bitter and used to make sloe gin. (It could also be an allegory to those who were on the losing side). |
|
Subject: Lyr Add: KILLIECRANKIE From: Rapparee Date: 02 Apr 08 - 09:59 PM I don't see anything to indicate that a veteran is talking, but rather that someone is asking about Killiecrankie and someone who has been there is responding. ---------------------- Whaur hae ye been sae braw, lad? (Where have you been so fine, lad? Whaur hae ye been sae brankie-o? (Where have you been so gay? Whaur hae ye been sae braw, lad? (Where have you been so fine, lad? Cam' ye by Killiecrankie-o? (Did you come by Killiecrankie? An' ye had been whaur I hae been (If you had been where I have been Ye wadna been sae cantie-o (You would not be so cheerful/happy An' ye had seen what I hae seen (If you had seen what I have seen On the braes o' Killiecrankie-o (On the slopes/hills of Killiecrankie I fought at land, I fought at sea At hame I fought my auntie-o (At home I fought my aunt But I met the Devil and Dundee On the braes o' Killiecrankie-o The bauld pitcur fell in a furr And Clavers gat a crankie-o (And Clavers got a insecure/unsteady Or I had fed an Athol gled On the braes o' Killiecrankie-o Oh fie, MacKay, What gart ye lie (Oh fie, McKay, What made you lie I' the brush ayont the brankie-o? (In the brush among the gay? Ye'd better kiss'd King Willie's loff (loof=palm of the hand Than come tae Killiecrankie-o ------------- The translations come from our own Mudcat Cafe Scots' Glossary. "Gay" of course refers to "carefree". There may or may not be a clue as to the identity of the responder in the line about "at home I fought my aunt." |
|
Subject: RE: background on Killiecrankie From: mg Date: 03 Apr 08 - 12:30 PM http://youtube.com/watch?v=fdQhefFBY4E There you go. I have Obamamania over this guy....mg |
|
Subject: RE: background on Killiecrankie From: CET Date: 03 Apr 08 - 04:44 PM Rapaire's interpretation is reasonable, but I think the whole poem is a recitation by a soldier who has fought at Killiecrankie. He begins by asking someone(evidently a younger man) why he (the younger man) is so cheerful and well turned out: Did you come from Killiecrankie? The narrator goes on to say in effect "If you had gone through what I did, you wouldn't be so damn cheerful because I've just met the Devil and Dundee at Killiecrankie." Hence, the story is told by an older man who has survived the battle of Killiecrankie. |
|
Subject: RE: background on Killiecrankie From: GUEST,Ian Green Date: 12 Jun 08 - 07:17 PM Rapaires version is slightly different form my understanding and the words as tinkered with by Robert Burns which say "And Clavers gat a Clankie - O. Clearly this seems to refer to John Graham of Claverhouse. Clankie (as opposed to Crankie) mean a sharp blow which seems to mean that Clavers received a sharp blow. This may describe his death. Just to make things more obscure, the word "Clavers" also means idle talk or rumour and it was just this which allegedly caused the lack of faith in King James and brought about the state of affairs by which he was exiled. Of course had there been no idle rumour , there would have been no conflict (until something else caused it) |
|
Subject: RE: background on Killiecrankie From: trevek Date: 13 Jun 08 - 05:01 PM wikipedia is always useful (and occasionally accurate!). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Killiecrankie http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Braes_o%27_Killiecrankie |
|
Subject: RE: Origin: Killiecrankie From: GUEST,GUEST --- Jim Neil Date: 21 Aug 08 - 02:23 PM The part that puzzles me is why he should fight his auntie! Could it be a nickname for Mary II who was joint ruler with William III or could it be a reference to the way in which families were divided and fought against each other? Anybody got any other ideas? |
|
Subject: RE: Origin: Killiecrankie From: RobbieWilson Date: 21 Aug 08 - 07:47 PM ye widna been sae brankieo I had always thaught was a reference to branks, a kind of scolds bride device I saw in an Edinburgh museum |
|
Subject: RE: Origin: Killiecrankie From: goatfell Date: 22 Aug 08 - 04:14 AM aye and the battle lasted for 10 mins |
|
Subject: RE: Origin: Killiecrankie From: CET Date: 22 Aug 08 - 11:42 AM I think the bit about the auntie is just a joke, i.e. he's such a fightin' fool that he even manages to fight his auntie when he's not away fighting battles on land and sea. In any case, the narrator of the song fought against Bonnie Dundee, and on the side of William and Mary. |
|
Subject: RE: Origin: Killiecrankie From: GUEST Date: 23 Aug 08 - 04:08 AM Could be, CET. And 'auntie' is such a handy word for rhyming purposes. I'm told that Burns used it quite a lot ---- in fact, he might have written that verse. |
|
Subject: RE: Origin: Killiecrankie From: GUEST Date: 23 Aug 08 - 07:30 AM It was actually William II of Scotland, III of England |
|
Subject: Lyr Add: KILLIECRANKIE From: GUEST,Jack Date: 08 Apr 13 - 02:39 PM In April 1689 John Graham of Claverhouse, Viscount Dundee or "Bonnie Dundee", raised the standard of James VII on the hill Dundee Law, in the city of Dundee, Scotland. His support came from the Catholic Highland Clans (mostly from Clans Cameron, Donald, Stuart and McLean) and became known as the "Jacobites" including Hallyburton of Pitcur. Coming from Inverness over the Corrieyairack and Drumochter Passes, he had raided Perth on 10 May 1689. Hugh McKay was commander-in-chief of the Government forces in Scotland known as the "Covenanters" or less commonly "Williamites" for their support of William III of Orange. They marched against the Jacobites. His forces largely came from the Scottish Lowlands but also included professional Highland soldiers who fought against their close relatives (a possible solution for the "Auntie" question). On 26 July 1689, although they were outnumbered 2 to 1, the Jacobites ambushed the Covenanter army of 4000 men under General Hugh McKay at the Pass of Killiecrankie which is a very narrow and steeply sided mountain pass between Blair Atholl and Pitlochry, in Perthshire. The Jacobites overwhelmed the Covenanters and their victory was absolute, however Dundee had been mortally wounded in the initial charge down the hillside. He could direct the battle and learn of his victory but died soon after. The Jacobites had no leader capable of replacing him and were later defeated at the Battle of Dunkeld. The first Jacobite Uprising ended on 1 May 1690. I grew up understanding brankie to be a reference to violence (perhaps an extension of the military comparison to a spruce tree being taken yet a step farther from the original). With that in mind you see a slightly different scene with the phrase "Whaur hae ye been sae brankie-o" being a reference to the soldier being covered in blood/gore. For "Or I had fed an Atholl/Athole gled" I've heard a variety of interpretations, gled being a type of bird feeding on corpses or by colloquialism a type of person with a variety of motives and atholl referencing Blair Atholl at one end of Killiecrankie or Athole being an old name for Perthshire. As far as the Auntie bit, while it could be a reference to Mary or the fact that he may have encountered close relatives on the battlefield my personal belief is that Burn's simply inserted it as a euphemism like saying "I've fought everyone". With all that in mind the translation I was taught from childhood goes as follows: Whaur hae ye been sae braw, lad? Where have you been, fine lad? Whaur hae ye been sae brankie-o? Where have you been so violently? Whaur hae ye been sae braw, lad? Where have you been, fine lad? Cam' ye by Killiecrankie-o? Did you come from Killicrankie? Aye an' ye had been whaur I hae been Aye and if you'd been where I've Ye wadna been sae cantie-o Ye wouldn't be so cheerful [been Aye an' ye had seen what I hae seen Aye and if you'd seen what I've On the braes o' Killiecrankie-o On the hills of Killiecrankie[seen I fought at land, I fought at sea I fought at home I fought at sea At hame I fought my auntie-o At home I fought my auntie But I met the Devil and Dundee But I met the Devil and Dundee On the braes o' Killiecrankie-o On the hills of Killiecrankie The bauld Pitcur fell in a furr The bold Pitcur fell in a furrow And Clavers gat a clankie-o And Claverhouse got knocked Or I had fed an Athol gled Or I had fed and Atholl/Athole gled On the braes o' Killiecrankie-o On the hills of Killicrankie Oh fie, MacKay, What gart ye lie Oh fie MacKay, what made you lie I' the brush ayont the brankie-o? In the brush beyond the battle? Ye'd better kiss'd King Willie's loff[It would've been better if you'd kissed King Williams hand Than come tae Killiecrankie-o than come to Killicrankie It's nae shame, no it's nae shame It's no shame, no it's no shame It's nae shame to shank ye-o It's no shame to flee There's sour slaes on Athol braes There's sour sloes on Atholl/Athole And the de'ils at Killiecrankie-o And the devils at Killicrankie[hills |
|
Subject: RE: Origin: Killiecrankie From: Allan Conn Date: 09 Apr 13 - 03:14 AM "His support came from the Catholic Highland Clans (mostly from Clans Cameron, Donald, Stuart and McLean) and became known as the "Jacobites" including Hallyburton of Pitcur." I'm not sure about the make up of the army itself at Killiecrankie but the idea that Dundee's support in general came from Catholics isn't really true. Allan Macinnes (Professor of History at Aberdeen Uni) in his "Clanship, Commerce and the House of Stuart" lists 50 separate clans who were significant enough to be able to act on their own. Of these only 6 are listed as Catholics. He lists 28 clans who supported Dundee's rising. Like all of the Jacobite Rebellions in Scotland the bulk of the Jacobites were Episcopalians. That is Scottish Anglicans. It was aligned to the long struggle between the Episcopalians and Presbyterians as to the nature of the Church of Scotland and the relationship between said church and state. The 6 classed as Catholic did all come out. That is the MacDonalds of Glengarry, ClanRanald, and Keppoch; as well as McNeil of Barra; Chisholm of Strathglass and the Gordons. The McGregors came out and are described as mixed Episcopalian and Catholic. There were another 5 clans were described as being mixed Presbyterian/Episcopalian/Catholic in their religious affiliations and 4 of these came out. That is the MacDonalds of Sleat. The MacDonnells of Antrim, the Camerons and the Frasers of Lovet. Clan Grant were divided politically as well as religiously. There is another 17 clans who came out and 9 of these are described as Episcopalians. This includes the McLeans of Duart and the McLeans of Ardgour as well as the Stewarts of Appin. Another 9 are described as mixed Episcopalian/Presbyterian. None of the clans described as Presbyterian came out which is of course maybe understandable as both Dundee and James VII himself had been heavily involved in the persecution of the Presbyterians. |
|
Subject: RE: Origin: Killiecrankie From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 09 Apr 13 - 04:01 AM A serious story of dramatic events rendered comic by the image of a man battling his auntie. There must be a lost meaning. |
|
Subject: RE: Origin: Killiecrankie From: Scabby Douglas Date: 09 Apr 13 - 06:35 AM "A serious story of dramatic events rendered comic by the image of a man battling his auntie." But it's not entirely serious, even if you omit the reference to the auntie. There's real sarcastic mockery in line "Fie, MacKay..." and dark humour in the description of how "bold Pitcur" ends up in a ditch. Furthermore, using words that have to rhyme with "Killiecrankie" does impart an unavoidable bounce and jauntiness to the narrative. To me, it's in a similar vein to "Cam Ye Oer Frae France?" and "Johnnie Cope" which sardonically commemorate and satirise undeniably serious, even grim, events. It's a very Scottish thing to do... |
|
Subject: RE: Origin: Killiecrankie From: GUEST,HughM Date: 09 Apr 13 - 07:49 AM I thought the bush was "ayont(beyond)the bankie-o". |
|
Subject: RE: Origin: Killiecrankie From: Lighter Date: 09 Apr 13 - 05:32 PM What is the evidence that *any* of the words are older than Burns? |
|
Subject: RE: Origin: Killiecrankie From: Allan Conn Date: 09 Apr 13 - 06:43 PM "I thought the bush was "ayont(beyond)the bankie-o". Brankie-o as far as I know. That's certainly what I sing just about every week and that is what the Corries sing. Interestingly though in the "Complete Illustrated Poems, Songs and Ballads of Robert Burns" the last two verses (ie the Fye mackay and the Nae Shame verses) are missing. Don't know if these are later non-Burns verses or if he had these in some versions of his? |
|
Subject: RE: Origin: Killiecrankie From: Allan Conn Date: 09 Apr 13 - 06:50 PM "I grew up understanding brankie to be a reference to violence" I think the word has two different meanings in this song. In the Fie Mackay verse I think you are right - but in the first verse it has a completely different meaning. The Chambers Scots Dictionary gives the meaning as being "vain, puffed up, to prance". Basically the narrator is a Hanovarian soldier who in the aftermath of the battle meets another Hanovarian soldier who hasn't been at the battle. He is saying that he wouldn't be so vain, or in the chorus so cantie (ie cheerful) if he had been at Killiecrankie. |
|
Subject: RE: Origin: Killiecrankie From: Lighter Date: 09 Apr 13 - 09:33 PM The "Concise Scots Dictionary," published by Aberdeen University Press, defines the adjective "brankie" as an 18th century word meaning "finely or showily dressed." "Whare hae ye been sae braw, lad?" means "Where have you been looking so splendid, lad?" The "lad" is one of William of Orange's uniformed soldiers. "Or I had fed an Athole gled" means "Otherwise I'd have fed an Atholl kite (or buzzard)." In other words, "if Pitcur and Claverhouse ("Bonnie Dundee") hadn't been killed by a blow, I'd have been dead myself." "Ayont the bankie, O" makes sense, but it is almost always printed "brankie-o," which seems not to. It could be a typo influenced by the first, and genuine, "brankie, O" and copied over and over. The version from Burns in 1790 lacks the final two stanzas. They were added by the poet James Hogg when he printed the song in 1819. |
|
Subject: RE: Origin: Killiecrankie From: GUEST,Allan Conn Date: 10 Apr 13 - 02:08 AM The CSD actually gives three definitions for the word 'brank'. The 2nd definition is "bear oneself proudly, prance, strut" and the 3rd one is "dress in finery". So both these definitions would fit in with Burn's usage in verse one. However the 1st definition it gives for the word is "behave violently or without restraint" which would fit in with Hogg's (thanks Lighter for bringing the Shepherd's contribution to light) description of the battle in his verse. I think it far more likely that Hogg uses the word in the sense that Jack suggests that it just being a typo mistake. It just one of those words which has two completely different meanings. I always thought it a bit lazy of Burns to use it twice to mean completely different things - but if the second instance was added later by Hogg then that explains it. Hogg was a wee bit lazy or unimaginative. |
|
Subject: RE: Origin: Killiecrankie From: Lighter Date: 10 Apr 13 - 11:46 AM But the first "brankie" in the song is an adjective, not a verb or a noun. That makes all the difference. Conceivably, Hogg used it as a noun in the the Mackay stanza with a meaning like "violent strife," but there seems to be no trace of anyone else ever doing so. Whatever the truth of it, "bankie" seems to make clearer sense. James Currie's 1800 edition of Burns's songs and poems defines "brankie" as "gaudy, spruce." That's the only sense in the Oxford English Dictionary as well, which quotes Burns alone - which is curious if the word had ever been common. The OED has nothing on the noun "brankie." Nor does Jamieson's "Etymological Dictionary of the Scottish Language" (1808). Even bankie ("a little bank of earth") appears to have been coined specifically for the purpose of finding yet another rhyme for "Killiecrankie"! If Hogg was daring enough, I suppose he could have turned the obsolete 15th Century verb "brankie" into a noun meaning "violent strife," with Mackay hiding in a bush "ayont" it, but the evidence of the leading Scots dictionaries suggests that even in 1819 few readers would have known what he meant. |
|
Subject: RE: Origin: Killiecrankie From: Allan Conn Date: 10 Apr 13 - 04:43 PM This first brankie is an adjective but I don't see what the issue is with that. The second use looks like the same word but has a totally different meaning. There are lots of words like that. For instance the word 'bank' can be a noun meaning either a high street savings bank, or a piece of sloping ground, or it can be a verb in the sense of a plane banking over. There is nothing unusual about words having multiple meanings. Why should Scots words be any different. Jamieson came from my neck of the woods and no doubt did a great job but his work was not of the scope of the Scottish National Dictionary which was 70 years in the making and the CSD is a abbreviated version of that. It dates the use of "brank" as to act violently from the early 15thC. So they are not just dating that from the works of Hogg being typed incorrectly. To me it is simply saying "what makes you hide in the brush beyond the fight". I see no reason to suppose that everyone has been singing an incorrect word from a typo for the past couple of centuries. Saying that there is no reason that someone couldn't sing 'bankie-o' if they wanted!! |
|
Subject: RE: Origin: Killiecrankie From: Allan Conn Date: 10 Apr 13 - 05:11 PM Sorry ignore the my neck of the woods bit. I was thinking James Murray and his dictionary. Point still stands though. The SND (and the related DOST)was a far bigger project than any of these earlier Scots dictionaries |
|
Subject: RE: Origin: Killiecrankie From: Lighter Date: 01 Jun 13 - 11:12 PM The SND has "brank" as a 15th century verb. But Hogg's printed "brankie" was a noun in the 19th - a noun that, as far as I can discover, appears nowhere outside of this song and discussions of it. That would be rather curious if it were authentic. Of course words can have more than one meaning. But the genuine to "brank" and the suspicious "brankie" are two different words (spelled and pronounced differently) besides being two different parts of speech. They have different meanings. Think of English "mug" (a bloke) and "muggy" (humid). One cannot deduce the meaning of either one just from looking at the spelling and meaning of the other. Much the same goes for "brank" and "brankie." "To behave violently" is not the same idea as "a battle." The ideas are not interchangeable - though they would obviously be related *if* "brankie" were real. But would Hogg use a word that none of his readers who was less than 400 years old would understand? I believe people sing "brankie" instead of "bankie" because most of them are afraid to change the received lyrics. Non-Scots are unlikely even to think of "bankie," a natural coinage in Scots but not in other forms of English. (It's too bad that "bankie" doesn't appear anywhere else either, but at least it fits the context with no distortion of meaning or grammar.) Of the two choices available, only "bankie" makes sense in Hogg's line. Perfect sense, in fact. (This is the kind of interpretation that editors of Shakespeare have to do all the time: the earliest printings of the plays are often a mess of misprints and apparently imaginary words.) Of course, if anyone can find even *one* clear example of "brankie" used before James Hogg as a real noun meaning "strife or battle" or anything like it, I will happily change my opinion. Because then the mystery will have been solved. |
|
Subject: RE: Origin: Killiecrankie From: GUEST,Allan Conn Date: 02 Jun 13 - 04:30 AM Well without scouring through every early Scots book for something that may not exist in print anyway can you show early use of "bankie" as you suggest it? As you are the one who is trying to change the words of the lyric then surely the onus is on yourself. As for words being verbs and nouns again I see no problem with that. even in English the word 'battle' itself can be used as both. Of course there is nothing wrong with changing words in existing songs just that if you do use 'bankie' instead of 'brankie' then you're going to get people commenting on it! |
|
Subject: RE: Origin: Killiecrankie From: Tattie Bogle Date: 02 Jun 13 - 04:59 AM From a Burns-themed session this last January - "we don't know any Burns songs, so we'll do you a Corries' song" - they sang Killiecrankie! ( OK, may have been tinkered with, but in the Complete Works as has been said above, and yes to "brankie"). And please, please, please. (08.04.13..) ......never BURN'S....if you feel the need for an apostrophe, put it after the man's surname which is BURNS or BURNES not BURN. |
|
Subject: RE: Origin: Killiecrankie From: GUEST Date: 02 Jun 13 - 01:51 PM http://bettylou.zzruss.com/corries.htm For chords to this and other Corries Songs |
|
Subject: RE: Origin: Killiecrankie From: GUEST,Lady Ancebelle Date: 02 Jun 13 - 02:21 PM Aye, as brave as he was beautiful. |
|
Subject: RE: Origin: Killiecrankie From: Lighter Date: 03 Jun 13 - 05:16 PM Burns seems to have been inspired by two songs on one broadside sheet in the National Library of Scotland: "Killychrankie" [sic] and "An Answer to Killychrankie." Neither bears any real resemblance to Burns's poem, but "Killychrankie" contains the words "Clinkim Clankim" (i.e., "wham bang") and observes that the Williamites thought the "Devil was there." The "Answer" mentions that "Pitcur fell in a furr." Other than these, no trace anywhere of a song that Burns could have "interfered with." The evidence shows that the song "Killiecrankie" was written by Robert Burns and extended by James Hogg. I've searched the very comprehensive data banks of Early English Books and Eighteenth Century Collections without success for *any* use before Burns and Hogg of "brankie" or "bankie" in *any* sense. (Both collections include the available Scots works in the NLS, the British Library, the NY Public, etc.) Burns himself may have coined the adjective "brankie" on the model of "brank." (A very similar line in a supposed "old song" mentioned by Hogg & Motherwell in 1834 has "vauntie" instead.) At least one scholar has described the Scots dialect in Burns's poems as "synthetic" and even "fabricated." (Rather like Shakespeare's approach to English.) I don't know to what extent that judgment might apply to Hogg's language. |
|
Subject: RE: Origin: Killiecrankie From: GUEST,Rod Bell Date: 11 Dec 19 - 12:18 PM Verse 4 'And I had fed on Atholl gled' Glen Atholl is near Killiecrankie. A gled is a kite, a bird of prey now returning in numbers to Britain. It feeds on carrion, so eating it implies that it is a disgusting act. |
|
Subject: RE: Origin: Killiecrankie From: meself Date: 11 Dec 19 - 12:37 PM The interpretation given above seems more credible: "Or I had fed an Athol gled" = I would have been killed (and been food for a carrion bird). It's a sort of familiar trope; the kind of thing you get in Shakespeare all the time. |
|
Subject: RE: Origin: Killiecrankie From: GUEST,Andy Brown Date: 22 Jan 21 - 07:41 AM This is an old song my granda used to sing and we really love it. Our interpretation is that it is sung by a Jacobite who was at the battle and is seeing a handome, singing young lad who clearly hasn't been at the battle. The Jacobite tells him that it was a really hard battle, even tougher than fighting his Auntie at home! There is a reference to meeting the Devil - he was amongst the battle, or it could also refer to Dundee, Bonnie Dundee, or James Graham of Claverhouse who was the Jacobite leader. The British thought he was a Devil and could not be killed - see below! He then goes onto say that the Bold Pitcur, who was who was David Halliburton of Pitcur and a Jacobite leader, fell in a furr - I see most translate this as furrow (as in field) - we always though this meant in a fury, i.e. he died fighting hard. And Clavers gat a clankie o - well to us a clankie is a bullet! Clavers who was thought to be invincibile, a british soldier took a silver button off his coat, put it in his musket and shot him with it! This was enough to kill Bonnie Dundee sadly, and the breastplate that the silver bullet went through still exists. The Jacobites won the battle but lost the war after the loss of Dundee. Or I had fed an Athole gled - well this is interesting as others are talking about feeding Hawks or Kites. I thought this meant if I supported the Athole flag? The gled is a flag. Athole was Murray who was a British leader who was later made the first Duke Of Atholl. He was besieging his own castle Blair Castle which was held for King James VII and the Jacobites. To me this means that if the singer had fought on the british side he would have been killed. A bit of code here maybe? The rest of the song is pretty self explanatory, a bit like Johnny Cope it makes fun of the British commander MacKay and says he have been better staying at court than coming out to fight. The sour sloes are the treachery of Atholl and the win that eventually became a defeat, because the Devil was (and remains) at Killiecrankie. That's my take on it anyway!! all the best from Scotland. |
|
Subject: RE: Origin: Killiecrankie From: Jack Campin Date: 22 Jan 21 - 10:42 AM I suspect the "sour slaes" are an allusion to the ghoulish backstory of the much older "Soor Plooms o Galashiels" - the plums referred to in that tune had been eaten by the English soldiers raiding orchards before a battle and were spilled out of their disrmbowelled guts. |
|
Subject: RE: Origin: Killiecrankie From: Lighter Date: 22 Jan 21 - 11:38 AM Andy, nowhere is "geld" (or alternative "glede") defined as a flag. It's a bird of prey - which makes perfect sense in the line. I doubt that Burns was using any sort of code. BTW, nearly seven years later, I'm no less persuaded that "ayont the brankie" must be an error for "ayont the bankie." Is there any new evidence otherwise? I'm open-minded. (And regardless: if you sing "bankie," you'll make sense *and* be understood!) |
|
Subject: RE: Origin: Killiecrankie From: Allan Conn Date: 22 Jan 21 - 05:32 PM I have always read it as being two Scottish gvt soldiers speaking and not Jacobites. |
|
Subject: RE: Origin: Killiecrankie From: Allan Conn Date: 22 Jan 21 - 05:44 PM Not sure why one side is being described as British here by Andy? It was two Scottish armies in what was a civil war within Scotland in pre-union Scotland. Both sides were supporting someone who claimed the English as well as Scottish crowns. Nothing to do with one side being British. The Scottish Parliament awarded the throne to William & Mary and branded James a traitor. Dundee had been a chief henchman for James so had no option other than raise a rebellion. So you have a Lowlander leading an army of largely Highlanders and Mackay a Highlander commanding an army largely of Lowlander with some Highlanders. Nothing to do with British other than they were all on the island of Britain. |
|
Subject: RE: Origin: Killiecrankie From: GUEST,Eddie McGuire Date: 21 Apr 21 - 07:05 PM Good points, Allan. |
|
Subject: RE: Origin: Killiecrankie From: Lighter Date: 14 Sep 22 - 05:50 PM A pair of American "Killiekrankie" anecdotes from the 19th century: The Yazoo City [Mississippi] Whig (Aug. 11, 1854): "On the stone base of the iron face [around Trinity Church, Manhattan], in front, has sat for the last month an old Scotchman with an old bag pipe, discoursing beautiful music to the passersby. At his feet is a cigar box to receive the spare pennies of those who linger to hear his music and think the laborer worthy of his hire. Ten days I passed by there with a lady who like myself is fond of old Highland airs. We each gave him a dime, and I asked him to play Killie Krankie – for he never seems to change his tune unless asked to do so….The old piper…brightened up…and drew out the beautiful old tune with such energy that crowd was soon gathered round and the cigar box was nearly filled with pennies. This morning as I went into the church yard, I stopped a moment, and there sat the poor old fellow in the same spot still…playing Killie Krankie with an energy that deserved a better fate, for there was not one cent in the cigar box. Whether he had changed his place or tune since I saw him last or not, I am sure I can not tell.”" Daily Statesman (Austin, Tex.) (Dec. 16, 1874): “The late Dr. [Gideon] Lincecum [born in Georgia ca1792] …stated…that for fifty-eight years, at daylight on each Christmas morning, he had stood in the door, barefoot, in his night-clothes, and played the Scottish air of Killy Kranky, and for forty-eight of those occasions he had used the violin…made to order for him in Paris in 1820.” |
| Share Thread: |