HOGMANAY

Subject: HOGMANAY
From: little john cameron
Date: 31 Dec 00 - 07:08 PM

Hogmanay party fae Edinburgh right noo.

http://www.scotlandonline.com/webcams/webcams_hogmanay.cfm

HAPPY NAW YEAR AWBODY LJC

Subject: RE: HOGMANAY
From: katlaughing
Date: 31 Dec 00 - 07:25 PM

ljc, the link on their page to connect to the live cam won't work. It says it is outdated. I'd really love to see and hear this!

BTW, please tell me what "hogmanay" means?

Thanks!

luvyakat

Subject: RE: HOGMANAY
From: wildlone
Date: 31 Dec 00 - 07:30 PM

AND TO YOU
The bad spirits have all been frightened away from sherborne by the bells and fireworks, The drunks are staggering home and it is peeing down.
Happy 21st century all.
dave[now going to bed, as all BOF's should]

Subject: RE: HOGMANAY
From: wildlone
Date: 31 Dec 00 - 07:32 PM

kat it is an old scots word for getting p***ed and having a good time

Subject: RE: HOGMANAY
From: little john cameron
Date: 31 Dec 00 - 07:33 PM

It was ok 10 mins ago Kat.Thousnds singing Auld Lang Syne. ljc

Subject: RE: HOGMANAY
From: little john cameron
Date: 31 Dec 00 - 07:36 PM

Just checked an it's workin now .Band playin,. ljc

Subject: RE: HOGMANAY
From: little john cameron
Date: 31 Dec 00 - 07:50 PM

HOGMANAY.

http://www.scotsindependent.org/features/scots/hogmanay.rm

paste an the wee mannie'll tell ye aboot it,Kat. ljc

Subject: RE: HOGMANAY
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 31 Dec 00 - 08:08 PM

G'day Kat,

From a slightly less Scots perspective: New Year's Eve / New Year's Eve celebration / New Year's Eve gift of cake demanded by children.

Probably from Norman French hoguinan‚ - and ultimately from old French aguillanneuf + new year's gift.

Celebrated in Scotland and parts of Northern England.

Some of my friends, come out here from Liverpool; none too north in England, celebrate Hogmanay very vigorously.

Regards,

Bob Bolton

Subject: RE: HOGMANAY
From: katlaughing
Date: 31 Dec 00 - 09:49 PM

Dave, thanks, darlin', now what in the world are BOF's??**BG**

ljc, that was kewl! The wee mannie explained it well!

And, thanks to you, too, Bob for the further explanation. I quite like the idea of children demanding cake at the turn of the year!

I never could get the first link to work from their website. Each time I clicked to play it, it said file not found, outdated or obsolete, etc. Ah, well, I can still dream...the pipes...the pipes....:-)

luvya'llkat

Subject: RE: HOGMANAY
From: paddymac
Date: 01 Jan 01 - 01:20 AM

Kat - I'm not sure what ljc means by "BOF", burt we use it as a slightly irreverential referrence to our maker of medicine, the "Beloved Old Fart."

I'm not well versed on Scots culture, but I'm told that Hogmanay is a bigger thing than Xmas, supposedly from a strong Calvinist view of Xmas as a strict religious celebration. I would appreciate it if some more knowledgeable than I could enlighten me on the derivation and motivations which underlie Hogmanay.

Subject: RE: HOGMANAY
From: little john cameron
Date: 01 Jan 01 - 01:58 AM

Here ye are Paddy

Nobody knows for sure where the word "Hogmanay" came from. Opinions differ as to whether it originated from the Gaelic oge maidne ("new morning"), Anglo-Saxon Haleg Monath ("Holy Month"), or Norman French word hoguinané, which was derived from the Old French anguillanneuf ("gift at New Year"). It's also been suggested that it came from the French au gui mener ("lead to the mistletoe") or a Flemish combo hoog ("high" or "great"), min ("love" or "affection") and dag ("day"). Take your pick.

What are the origins of Hogmanay?

Hogmanay's roots reach back to the pagan practice of sun and fire worship in the deep mid-Winter. This evolved into the ancient Saturnalia, a great Roman Winter festival, where people celebrated completely free of restraint and inhibition. The Vikings celebrated Yule, which became the twelve days of christmas, or the "Daft Days" as they became known in Scotland. The Winter festival went underground with the Reformation and ensuing years, but re-emerged at the end of the 17th Century. Since then the customs have continued to evolve to the modern day.

ljc

Subject: RE: HOGMANAY
From: wildlone
Date: 01 Jan 01 - 05:30 AM

kat BOF= boring old fart

Subject: RE: HOGMANAY
From: katlaughing
Date: 01 Jan 01 - 09:20 AM

Thanks, Dave:-) I'd hardly apply that sobriquet to the lot of you!

luvyakat

Subject: RE: HOGMANAY
From: Matt_R
Date: 01 Jan 01 - 11:26 AM

Dang, thought it mean "Big Ol F***er"

Subject: RE: HOGMANAY
From: paddymac
Date: 01 Jan 01 - 12:18 PM

Thanks ljc - that clears the fog a bit, but the fog in me head this morning (jeez, afternoon already) means I'll have to ponder it again..

Subject: RE: HOGMANAY
From: Matt_R
Date: 01 Jan 01 - 12:26 PM

Hogmany Toast:

May the best you've ever seen
Be the worst you'll ever see
May the mouse ne'er leave your gernel
Wi' a teardrop in it's e'e
May your lum keep blithely reekin'
'Till your auld enough tae die
May ye aye be hale and happy
As I wish ye now tae be.

--Matt

Subject: RE: HOGMANAY
From: wildlone
Date: 01 Jan 01 - 01:07 PM

Matt if the missing letters are art I've been called that as well.
or as the joke goes, I do good animal impressions,
smells mainly!!

Subject: RE: HOGMANAY
From: GUEST,John Hill
Date: 02 Jan 01 - 01:13 PM

I wouldn't think that Hogmanay is anything to do with New Years Eve. See my thread on "Last day of 20th Cent". Until 1752 New Years Eve was 24th March... and had been for many hundreds of years.

Subject: RE: HOGMANAY
From: blt
Date: 02 Jan 01 - 02:26 PM

I've been reading a book by one Ivan Hoig called "Dancing at the Rascal Fair" which is about Scottish immigrants coming to Gros Ventre, Montana in about 1890. Hogmanay is mentioned in connection with the end of the year--the two main characters have their "Hogmanay pictures" taken to send back to family in Scotland: "...(Rob was)the one who hatched the fortunate notion of commemorating ourselves by having our likenesses taken on that Hogmanay, New Year's Eve, as they tamely say it here in America..."

Subject: Add: Hagmana Song
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 02 Jan 01 - 09:34 PM

Hogmanay is just another name for the popular midwinter festival; the date of New Year isn't particularly relevant, though of course it all fits together quite nicely.  It isn't a uniquely Scottish thing, either (the Gaelic derivation is unlikely); the term was widely used in the North of England, too.  Here is a set of The Hagmana Song from Richmond in North Yorkshire; it was published in F.W. Moorman's Yorkshire Dialect Poems and Traditional Poems (1673-1915) in 1916/17:


HAGMANA SONG

(Fragment, As sung at Richmond, Yorkshire, on the eve of the New Year, by the Corporation Pinder.)

To-night it is the New-year's night, to-morrow is the day,
And we are come for our right, and for our ray ¹  (x 2)
As we used to do in old King Henry's day.
Sing, fellows, sing, Hagman-heigh. ²

If you go to the bacon-flick, cut me a good bit;
Cut, cut and low, beware of your maw;
Cut, cut and round, beware of your thumb,
That me and my merry men may have some.
Sing, fellows, sing, Hagman-heigh.

If you go to the Black-ark, bring me ten mark;
Ten mark, ten pound, throw it down upon the ground,
That me and my merry men may have some.
Sing, fellows, sing, Hagman-heigh.

¹  A Portuguese coin of small value.
²  Hagmana, or Hogmanay, is a north-country name for New Year's eve; the name is also applied to the offering for which children go round and beg on that evening.  (These are Moorman's notes.)


Dave Fawthrop's e-text of this book may be seen at  The Project Gutenberg E-text of Yorkshire Dialect Poems by F.W. Moorman
or at his website:  Yorkshire Dialect Poems (1673-1915) and Traditional Poems

Unfortunately, no tune or precise source is given.

Malcolm

Subject: RE: HOGMANAY
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 01 Jan 03 - 03:23 PM

Refreshed for the toast by Matt_R.
Now that lump of coal?

Subject: RE: HOGMANAY
From: CapriUni
Date: 01 Jan 03 - 03:56 PM

Ah, Little John, 2002 saw your passing from our company... This little gem of a thread is a lasting testimony to you and your spirit.

I hardly met you, in the year that passed, but still, the brief encounters between us were as bright sparkles.

May 2003 yet echo with your laughter...