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coffee stirred by thumb:Tales of the Frozen Logger

DigiTrad:
THE FROZEN LOGGER


Related threads:
Req: Frozen Logger reply/parody-reply to waitress (5)
A song dilemma (49)
Lyr Req: Logger Lover Parody (6)
Lyr Add: Frozen Jogger (3)
ADD: The Steadfast Sailor (Frozen Logger Parody) (3)
HELP! lyr for logger song re:hook tender (3)
Lyr Req: wildcat or boastful logger song (10)


12 Oct 98 - 09:16 AM
rosebrook 12 Oct 98 - 09:24 AM
12 Oct 98 - 09:44 AM
john 12 Oct 98 - 01:55 PM
Pete Peterson 12 Oct 98 - 09:06 PM
Einnor 13 Oct 98 - 01:14 AM
Allan S. 13 Oct 98 - 02:23 PM
lohouse8 13 Oct 98 - 10:08 PM
Rincon Roy 02 Jan 01 - 09:49 PM
Amergin 02 Jan 01 - 09:52 PM
Midchuck 02 Jan 01 - 09:55 PM
catspaw49 02 Jan 01 - 10:02 PM
Haruo 02 Jan 01 - 10:05 PM
John of the Hill 02 Jan 01 - 10:09 PM
Deckman 02 Jan 01 - 10:09 PM
Haruo 02 Jan 01 - 10:12 PM
lesblank 02 Jan 01 - 10:14 PM
Stewart 02 Jan 01 - 11:33 PM
SINSULL 03 Jan 01 - 12:09 AM
dick greenhaus 03 Jan 01 - 12:22 AM
Haruo 03 Jan 01 - 12:23 AM
GUEST,Fred Burns 03 Jan 01 - 12:32 AM
Deckman 03 Jan 01 - 02:39 AM
GUEST,Noreen 03 Jan 01 - 06:29 AM
GUEST,Noreen 03 Jan 01 - 06:33 AM
murray@mpce.mq.edu.au 03 Jan 01 - 07:29 AM
Chris/Darwin 03 Jan 01 - 07:44 AM
Deckman 03 Jan 01 - 08:15 AM
GUEST,Noreen 03 Jan 01 - 08:42 AM
kendall 03 Jan 01 - 08:54 AM
Midchuck 03 Jan 01 - 09:09 AM
Deckman 03 Jan 01 - 09:26 AM
MAG (inactive) 03 Jan 01 - 11:22 AM
BlueJay 03 Jan 01 - 12:08 PM
Midchuck 03 Jan 01 - 12:26 PM
Jacob B 03 Jan 01 - 12:38 PM
GUEST,kendall 03 Jan 01 - 12:42 PM
Deckman 03 Jan 01 - 11:39 PM
Sourdough 04 Jan 01 - 03:03 AM
Don Firth 04 Jan 01 - 04:55 PM
Don Firth 04 Jan 01 - 04:58 PM
Deckman 04 Jan 01 - 05:49 PM
Don Firth 04 Jan 01 - 07:15 PM
Deckman 04 Jan 01 - 10:03 PM
Stewart 04 Jan 01 - 11:26 PM
Deckman 04 Jan 01 - 11:39 PM
Joe Offer 05 Jan 01 - 03:03 AM
Stewart 05 Jan 01 - 12:08 PM
Don Firth 05 Jan 01 - 05:46 PM
GUEST,Maggie Dwyer 05 Jan 01 - 11:58 PM
Deckman 06 Jan 01 - 11:24 AM
Don Firth 06 Jan 01 - 03:14 PM
Deckman 06 Jan 01 - 09:12 PM
GUEST,winterbright 07 Jan 01 - 04:27 PM
Sandy Paton 07 Jan 01 - 05:16 PM
Deckman 07 Jan 01 - 05:46 PM
StillyRiverSage (inactive) 08 Jan 01 - 12:17 AM
StillyRiverSage (inactive) 08 Jan 01 - 12:22 AM
Deckman 08 Jan 01 - 01:21 AM
Sandy Paton 08 Jan 01 - 01:40 AM
Bert 09 Jan 01 - 06:58 PM
GUEST,winterbright 10 Jan 01 - 03:01 PM
Don Firth 10 Jan 01 - 05:08 PM
Peter T. 10 Jan 01 - 05:19 PM
simon-pierre 10 Jan 01 - 07:34 PM
MMario 11 Jan 01 - 11:33 AM
Deckman 11 Jan 01 - 10:42 PM
GUEST,winterbright 12 Jan 01 - 10:49 AM
StillyRiverSage (inactive) 15 Jan 01 - 01:01 AM
Alice 15 Jan 01 - 11:18 AM
Sandy Paton 15 Jan 01 - 12:44 PM
GUEST,Art Brooks 15 Jan 01 - 06:02 PM
John MacKenzie 24 May 03 - 10:35 AM
GUEST,Marj 28 Jan 04 - 09:19 PM
Acme 28 Jan 04 - 09:31 PM
EBarnacle 29 Jan 04 - 10:27 AM
bbc 11 Feb 04 - 09:43 AM
Bat Goddess 11 Feb 04 - 03:06 PM
BK Lick 11 Feb 04 - 06:02 PM
Buzzer65 04 Nov 05 - 03:57 PM
Stewart 04 Nov 05 - 05:40 PM
Amos 04 Nov 05 - 05:44 PM
JohnInKansas 05 Nov 05 - 02:13 AM
Ep' Eric 05 Nov 05 - 07:42 AM
kendall 05 Nov 05 - 07:52 AM
Tannywheeler 05 Nov 05 - 09:52 AM
Mark Ross 05 Nov 05 - 11:49 AM
JohnInKansas 05 Nov 05 - 01:10 PM
Don Firth 05 Nov 05 - 01:18 PM
Deckman 05 Nov 05 - 02:44 PM
Don Firth 05 Nov 05 - 03:01 PM
Genie 18 Mar 06 - 10:01 PM
The Fooles Troupe 18 Mar 06 - 11:19 PM
Acme 19 Mar 06 - 12:41 AM
The Fooles Troupe 19 Mar 06 - 06:49 AM
Leadfingers 19 Mar 06 - 06:59 AM
Deckman 19 Mar 06 - 10:34 AM
Big Jim from Jackson 19 Mar 06 - 10:36 AM
Acme 19 Mar 06 - 10:47 AM
open mike 19 Mar 06 - 10:48 AM
John MacKenzie 19 Mar 06 - 10:56 AM
GUEST,Tom Bliss 19 Mar 06 - 12:06 PM
GUEST,Joe_F 19 Mar 06 - 09:02 PM
Joe Richman 19 Mar 06 - 09:13 PM
Lanfranc 20 Mar 06 - 06:46 AM
GUEST,Joe_F 20 Mar 06 - 08:49 PM
Fred Maslan 21 Mar 06 - 07:42 PM
GUEST 12 May 11 - 02:39 PM
Joe Offer 12 May 11 - 03:21 PM
fretless 13 May 11 - 03:44 PM
Mysha 19 Jan 13 - 02:48 AM
BrooklynJay 24 Feb 14 - 08:58 PM
kendall 25 Feb 14 - 05:07 PM
Stewart 25 Feb 14 - 06:05 PM
Acme 09 Jul 17 - 11:23 AM
Cool Beans 09 Jul 17 - 12:13 PM
GUEST,Bob Schwarer 09 Jul 17 - 01:35 PM
GUEST,adbotru 10 Jul 17 - 06:17 PM
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Subject: frozen logger
From:
Date: 12 Oct 98 - 09:16 AM

Looking for the lyrics for "The Frozen Logger"


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Subject: RE: frozen logger
From: rosebrook
Date: 12 Oct 98 - 09:24 AM

Hi,

If you search the database for [frozen logger], you would find it.

THE FROZEN LOGGER (DT Version)
(James Stevens)

As I sat down one evening within a small cafe,
A forty year old waitress to me these words did say:

"I see that you are a logger, and not just a common bum,
'Cause nobody but a logger stirs his coffee with is thumb.

My lover was a logger, there's none like him today;
If you'd pour whiskey on it he could eat a bale of hay

He never shaved his whiskers from off of his horny hide;
He'd just drive them in with a hammer and bite them off inside.

My lover came to see me upon one freezing day;
He held me in his fond embrace which broke three vertebrae.

He kissed me when we parted, so hard that he broke my jaw;
I could not speak to tell him he'd forgot his mackinaw.

I saw my lover leaving, sauntering through the snow,
Going gaily homeward at forty-eight below.

The weather it tried to freeze him, it tried its level best;
At a hundred degrees below zero, he buttoned up his vest.

It froze clean through to China, it froze to the stars above;
At a thousand degrees below zero, it froze my logger love.

They tried in vain to thaw him, and would you believe me, sir
They made him into axeblades, to chop the Douglas fir.

And so I lost my lover, and to this cafe I come,
And here I wait till someone stirs his coffee with his thumb."

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Words and music by James Stevens
@work @west @love @logger
filename[ FROZLOGR
TUNE FILE: FROZLOGR
CLICK TO PLAY
DC

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Words and music by James Stevens


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Subject: RE: frozen logger
From:
Date: 12 Oct 98 - 09:44 AM

I am not sure but I believe the last line THey tried in vain to thaw hin and if you believe me sir Etc Etc. first appeared among members of IOCA [Intercollegiate Outing Club Association] I the 1950's [the good years] I only heard Outing clubbers sing it.

Allan S..


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Subject: RE: frozen logger
From: john
Date: 12 Oct 98 - 01:55 PM

Are you saying that the line about"they tried in vain etc" was not in the original version?

I also saw a line " The snow it tried to freeze him It tried to do him dirt At 80 degrees below zero he buttoned up his shirt" Where do you suppose that came from?


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Subject: RE: frozen logger
From: Pete Peterson
Date: 12 Oct 98 - 09:06 PM

According to an old Sing Out, Ernie Marrs added the verse
    And when he went out hunting,
    He never fired a shell
    He'd just pull off his logging boots
    And killed them with the smell

which goes, of course, right after
"He never shaved the whiskers..."

PETE


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Subject: RE: frozen logger
From: Einnor
Date: 13 Oct 98 - 01:14 AM

Ha ha. I could tell you all kinds of wild stories about those wild loggers of the frozen north cause I felled timber for 20 plus years and those song lyrics are all true.


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Subject: RE: frozen logger
From: Allan S.
Date: 13 Oct 98 - 02:23 PM

JOhn- I,m not sure where that verse came from It does appear in the 1955 ed. of Song Fest -By Dick Best But I heard it in 1951 at the U- Connceticut Outing Club. At that time noone else sang that last verse. Actually I don't know who wrote the song. Any Ideas?? Folk Process???? Allan.S


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Subject: RE: frozen logger
From: lohouse8
Date: 13 Oct 98 - 10:08 PM

Here's another verse. Used to use it to end the song sometimes. Can't remember where I picked it up.
    "They found him in the morning, a poor sad frozen ghost,
    And they tied him up in the stable, as a horse's hitching post.
    Some day some hot horse will find him, and back to me he'll come.
    And, I will proudly watch him, stir his coffee with his thumb."


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Subject: coffee stirred by thumb, song
From: Rincon Roy
Date: 02 Jan 01 - 09:49 PM

Heard terrific (& goofy) song on radio this weekend. I want to know who sings it & where I can I track down a recording. The lyric goes thusly: Seems there's this waitress in a small town who notices a customer stirring his coffee with his thumb, just like her late love, a lumberjack, did. The song is full of crazy images of her dearly departed. Example, he didn't shave his beard, but just pounded the whiskers back into his face with a hammer & chewed the ends off on the inside instead. (if the author of this lyric just happens to be reading this: you are one funny person!)


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Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb
From: Amergin
Date: 02 Jan 01 - 09:52 PM

That sounds like the Frozen Logger. The lyrics are in the DT I believe.....


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Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb
From: Midchuck
Date: 02 Jan 01 - 09:55 PM

Damn. You beat me because I went into the DT to check, first. They're there. Proper title is The Frozen Logger.

Peter


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Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb
From: catspaw49
Date: 02 Jan 01 - 10:02 PM

WEll of course, NO ONE but a logger stirs coffee with his thumb!

Spaw


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Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb
From: Haruo
Date: 02 Jan 01 - 10:05 PM

The Esperanto version by Marta Evans, not the most model Esperanto but fun to sing, is in Kantfesto I and will probably sooner or later appear on my website. Sooner if anyone evinces interest. Later otherwise.

Liland


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Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb
From: John of the Hill
Date: 02 Jan 01 - 10:09 PM

This is one of the songs my mother used to sing to us while she ironed clothes. The Devil and The Farmer's Wife was another. Never dreamed at the time that I was being immersed into the folkstream, or that 22 years after her death I would hear her voice as clearly as ever. John


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Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb
From: Deckman
Date: 02 Jan 01 - 10:09 PM

The "Frozen Logger" was written by the late Jim Stevens, of Aberdeen Wa. I had the pleasure of meeting him in 1959. As a youngster of 12, he went into the Northwest woods as a cooks helper in the logging camps. He wrote the "Frozen Logger" and "THE PAUL BUNYON TALES" based on stories he heard in the bunkhouse at night. He was a buddy of the late Ivar Haglund, famous Seattle restaurant owner, Iver's Acres of Clams. Jim wrote the material for the "Keep Washington Green Campaign" that Ivar sang on Seattle radio in the late forties and early fifties. By the way, his original writing differs somewhat from the populiar recorded and written versions.


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Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb
From: Haruo
Date: 02 Jan 01 - 10:12 PM

Deckman, do you know where the original Jim Stevens version can be seen or heard?

Liland


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Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb
From: lesblank
Date: 02 Jan 01 - 10:14 PM

The best version of this ditty that I've heard is done by Steve Gillette and his wife Cindy Mangsten on their "Live in Concert at The Arc" CD on Compass Rose Music.


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Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb
From: Stewart
Date: 02 Jan 01 - 11:33 PM

I probably shouldn't mention this, but there is a parody called The Frozen Jogger that I've heard snatches of, but not the whole thing. I think it came out of Vancouver. Anybody know it? Otherwise, the original I've known for a long time and it is still a favorite.

Cheers,

S. in Seattle


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Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb
From: SINSULL
Date: 03 Jan 01 - 12:09 AM

Midchuck is too modest. "Frozen Logger" is on one of the "Woodchucks' Revenge" CDs. Suggest you buy them all to be sure to get the right one.

Note to Woodchucks: I am expecting a commission on this!


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Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 03 Jan 01 - 12:22 AM

Have any of the other aging folkies noticed the change of perspective over the years when considering the phrase, "40 year old waitress"? I started singing this when I was about eighteen, and she sounded amusingly mature at the time.


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Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb
From: Haruo
Date: 03 Jan 01 - 12:23 AM

Good point.


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Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb
From: GUEST,Fred Burns
Date: 03 Jan 01 - 12:32 AM

The lyrics and chords can be found in Sing Out's book, Rise Up Singing, and also with music in Alan Lomax's Folk Songs of North America.


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Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb
From: Deckman
Date: 03 Jan 01 - 02:39 AM

Jim Stevens did NOT write the phrase "fourty year old waitress." He wrote this line as,"a six foot seven waitress" The most accurate, both in words and spirit, version was recorded by Walt Robertson. I'll dig out his recording later, but it was recorded by Moses Asch of Folkways, and is available through the Smithsonian. This song is quite an anthem at song circles over here on the Pacific Northwest. CHEERS, Bob Nelson


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Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb
From: GUEST,Noreen
Date: 03 Jan 01 - 06:29 AM


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Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb
From: GUEST,Noreen
Date: 03 Jan 01 - 06:33 AM

Oops- strange computer!

What I meant to say was:

Great song, what's a mackinaw? (And a 6'7" waitress seems more relevant than her age).

Noreen


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Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb
From: murray@mpce.mq.edu.au
Date: 03 Jan 01 - 07:29 AM

I always thought "40 year old waitress" was a bit weak compared to the rest of the song. I like "6'7" better, although I have never heard it sung that way.

Somewhere I have a tape of an Australian Folk singer singing it, but what with moving,......

Murray


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Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb
From: Chris/Darwin
Date: 03 Jan 01 - 07:44 AM

Always sang "six foot seven inch waitress" since I got interested in folk music rather a long time ago.

Problem is - Australia metricated 30 years ago, and I haven't been able to think up a way of singing "two thousand and seven millimetres waitress", or perhaps "two hundred centimetre waitress", or variations thereof. With all its advantages, the metric system does not allow much for colloquial expressions - "missed by 1.62 kilometres", "give him 25 point 4 millimetres, and he takes nine hundred and fourteen", etc.

ChrisP


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Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb
From: Deckman
Date: 03 Jan 01 - 08:15 AM

A "mackinaw" is a raincoat.


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Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb
From: GUEST,Noreen
Date: 03 Jan 01 - 08:42 AM

Thanks, Deckman- like a macintosh? )What an odd word that looks!)


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Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb
From: kendall
Date: 03 Jan 01 - 08:54 AM

In Maine, a Mackinaw is a heavy woolen coat. I first heard this one in the 40's by Buryl Ives. Been singing it ever since, but never recorded it.


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Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb
From: Midchuck
Date: 03 Jan 01 - 09:09 AM

When bigchuck sings it, I have a habit of interjecting "just a kid" or "jailbait" after "a 40 year old waitress."

Peter.


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Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb
From: Deckman
Date: 03 Jan 01 - 09:26 AM

Somewhere in one of my many storage boxes, I had a reel to reel tape of a T.V. show we did on Channell 9 in 1959. This show featured Jim Stevens and Ivar Haglund trading stories of these songs that Jim wrote, with Ivar singing the songs. Jim died about 5 years after that show. I was pleased to give Ivar a copy of that recording about 20 years ago, he was very pleased to receive it. Someday I'll make a transcript of the tape, and hopefully make copies available to all. These songs are our heritage, and must be shared and preserved. CHEERS, Bob Nelson. my e-mail is thedeckman@earthlink.net


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Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb
From: MAG (inactive)
Date: 03 Jan 01 - 11:22 AM

I first heard this song sung by Fred Holstein in chicago, but to my knowledge he never recorded it.

"40 year old waitress" I always thought was a softer version of the more common "over 40 waitress." I too like 6' 7" waitress mch better.

Living here in the PNW, with roots in Maine, I like this song a lot, even if the lyrics make it a guy song.


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Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb
From: BlueJay
Date: 03 Jan 01 - 12:08 PM

SINSULL- Right on- credit where it's due! Woodchucks' Revenge- Fill One Room, includes the only audio version of The Frozen Logger that I have. The entire CD is Great, especially this song, and the title track, and the hilarious "Boxers and Socks", (In my socks, in my socks, in my socks...with a gun. Sound familiar?) Thanks all, BlueJay


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Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb
From: Midchuck
Date: 03 Jan 01 - 12:26 PM

None of us have paid any money for any post on this thread!

Thanks, tho'

P.


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Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb
From: Jacob B
Date: 03 Jan 01 - 12:38 PM

I've heard Faith Petric sing a version (at Fox Hollow, about 20 years ago) in which the customer replies to the waitress, telling her about the superhuman lover he once had and how he lost her. He then proposes to the waitress.

Jacob


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Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb
From: GUEST,kendall
Date: 03 Jan 01 - 12:42 PM

I really like your "Boxers and Shorts" very clever!


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Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb
From: Deckman
Date: 03 Jan 01 - 11:39 PM

I remember that one of the songs that Jim Stevens wrote, and Ivar Haglund sang, was "The Starving Stump Rancher." In the Northwest here, when settlers started clearing land for their cabins, they usually cut the trees down about head high. It took a lot of work, and several years, to pull the stumps from the ground with a team of horses, etc. As a result, many of the early settler homesteads looked like they were raising "stumps", instead of the gardens, and corrals, etc.CHEERS


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Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb
From: Sourdough
Date: 04 Jan 01 - 03:03 AM

Deckman: I don't know whether you are familiar with the phrase "dead media" but reel to reel video tape is one. When I first started in broadcasting, RtR was still in use and some of my first shows only exist in that format. I don't have any really easy way to play them. The equipment that is needed has long been relegated, in most cases, to the junk heap. There are however a few people in the major cities of the US who specialize in playback, transfer and re-recording of dead media. A local station would be able to help. I would suggest that you ask first at Channel 9 in Seattle where I think you said this program was originally taped. Because of the content and the people involved, they might be interested enough to want a playable copy for their own archive thereby stunning two birds with a single reel.

If you decide to go the Channel 9 route and would like some help, send me a personal message and let me see if I can find someone at CH 9 who can help in saving this little bit of musical history.

I hope you will try to save this before it is too late. Tape is not a good indefinite storage medium. Ideally, videotape should be stored in a cool (60 degree), dry (30-50% humidity), envronment, always on edge, not on its side. Otherwise it "sheds" the iron oxide that carries the image and curles on the edges making it unplayable.

If you really want to save it indefinitely without losing quality, the saving should be done digitally. That way it can be copiesd onto new media as long as digital transfer is available and that looks to be for a while!

Sourdough


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Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb
From: Don Firth
Date: 04 Jan 01 - 04:55 PM


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Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb
From: Don Firth
Date: 04 Jan 01 - 04:58 PM

Oops! Sorry about that. Need to write something before unleasing the mouse. . . .

I think the television show that Bob (Deckman) Nelson is referring to (Howdy, Bob!) was "Ballads and Books" on KCTS Channel 9, a series of six live half-hour shows subsidized by the Seattle Public Library, that Patti McLaughlin and I did in early 1959.

This was in the days before videotape. One station in Seattle, KING-TV, had a videotape machine -- a $50,000 contraption as big as a desk, with tape reels the size of 35-mm movie film. Before the days of PBS and pledge breaks, Channel 9 couldn't afford one. This was why we had to do the shows live. Doing live television has a very strange effect on the bladder. During the half-hour before we went on the air, I had to make a half-dozen trips to the men's room. It was pure terror. The show went like clockwork, which was fortunate, because -- although people told me I seemed cool and self-possessed, I was practically comatose with fear. Patti, on the other hand, was cool as self-possessed . . . I think. But by the second show, we both felt like old pros.

In the fourth or fifth show, when we were featuring Pacific Northwest songs, we were really fortunate to get James Stevens and Ivar Haglund as guests. They sort of took over the show, but that was fine with us -- two excellent raconteurs trying to outdo each other made for an informative and entertaining half-hour. I got a chance to sing The Frozen Logger with Jim Stevens right there, which was a kick. I sang it the way I usually did -- with a Swedish accent. Stevens told me after the show that he thought it was hilarious, which made me feel pretty good.

He also said that the tune he used was a slight variation of the tune of "an obscene sea ballad." I'm pretty sure I have since recognized it. If I'm not mistaken, it's pretty darned close to the tune of Frigging in the Rigging.

As far as I know, Bob has the only existing audiotapes of the "Ballads and Books" shows, taped off the air. I think Sourdough has a mighty pow'ful suggestion there. Once the nickels stack up high enough, I plan to get my computer equipped with CD-RW drive and burn my old reel-to-reel tapes onto CDs. All those hoots and songfests and songs and singers . . . that stuff is a treasure trove!

Those were the days, my friend!

Don Firth

P. S. to Stewart: I'm pretty sure the parody, The Frozen Jogger came from the fertile but gloriously warped mind of the late and sorely missed John Dwyer. John Dwyer lived in Marysville, WA, about forty-five minutes north of Seattle, and died in late 1997. See Sing Out!, Vol. 42, No. 4, Last Chorus column, page 29. John was dedicated to learning and singing traditional songs and ballads, but his sense of humor was such that he couldn't resist writing parodies and other outrageous stuff. It's apparent Vancouver origin is easily explained by that fact that John's little red Geo Metro was constantly zipping up and down Interstate 5 to attend Song Circles in Vancouver, B. C. and Portland, Oregon, and all points between and around. I've heard John sing The Frozen Jogger, and it's pretty typical of the parodies he wrote. -- D. F.


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Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb
From: Deckman
Date: 04 Jan 01 - 05:49 PM

Great comments Don. Something about straight from the horses mouth comes to mind, but I won't mention it. Just to remind you, I have 5 boxes of my own reel to reels, 3 boxes of Pattis, and 3 boxes of Walt Robersons tapes. They are all in good condition, as is my Roberts machine. Also, I suspect that any number of Victoria and Vancouver mudcatters could jump in here and contribute the "Frozen Jogger." I suspect that John Dwyer did not write it, but he sure loved it.


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Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb
From: Don Firth
Date: 04 Jan 01 - 07:15 PM

(I'm beginning to feel like an archeological dig site. Am I really getting that old?)

I've heard John Dwyer sing The Frozen Jogger, but I wasn't absolutely sure he wrote it. One I am sure he wrote (well, pretty sure) is the one about the Bremerton ferry running aground in the fog. Seems there was a romantic cow involved, as I recall. If some Vancouver, Victoria, Everett, Seattle, or Timbuctoo singer knows it, I would be powerfully grateful to get my hands on the words and tune.

Bob, I think between the two of us, we have at least forty-eleven miles of tape containing some pretty amazing stuff. And some amazing people. Tape does deteriorate (print-through, oxide flaking off, and general decay), so it's probably a pretty good idea if we see about getting this stuff digitized. CDs are easier to handle, anyway.

Let's talk about it sometime soon.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb
From: Deckman
Date: 04 Jan 01 - 10:03 PM

Don, the song you request is called "Notice To Mariners," written by John Dwyer. Linda Allen published it in her book "Washington Songs and Lore", published by Melior Publications, Spokane. I'll be sure to get it to you soon. And yes, you're very right. John dwyer is sorely missed. From one old antique singer to another. deckman ... funny though, I don't FEEL old, but I sure notice a lot of cub scouts following me to earn merit badges helping me at street corners!


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Subject: Lyr Add: NOTICE TO MARINERS (John Dwyer) ^^
From: Stewart
Date: 04 Jan 01 - 11:26 PM

Yes, John Dwyer was certainly one of a kind, and sorely missed. I only knew him for about a year, and wish I had gotten to know him better before his untimely departure. Anyway here is his song "Notice to Mariners". Perhaps I or someone should start a new thread on John Dwyer songs.

NOTICE TO MARINERS -- John Dwyer, 1974

Come all you Northwest sailors, who cruise on Puget Sound,
And listen to my story, for well it will astound;
'Tis of a ferry captain, who ventured forth one day,
And of the fate befell him, as he sailed on the bay.

The ferry left Seattle, 'twas on a foggy day,
The captain had no worries, for well he knew the way;
He headed 'cross the water, where finny things abound,
And set his course for Bremerton, across famed Puget Sound.

He left Seattle Harbor, and passed Duwamish Head,
Past Alki on the port side, he westerly did head;
And now 'twas open water, across to Orchard Point,
Through fog as thick as chowder, the ferry's bow did point.

Now all good skippers have a trick, who sail these waters 'round,
And when the fog is thickest, 'tis then they steer by sound;
Full several times a minute, their whistle loud they blow,
And by the echo bouncing, when land is close they know.

The ferry neared Rich Passage. a place of rocks and shoals,
And narrow as an hourglass, as past Point White she goes,
The captain slowed the ferry, and not to run aground,
He blew upon his whistle, and listened for the sound.

Now, a farmer on Point Glover, across the neck from White,
Had tied his cow that foggy morn, upon lush grass to bite;
So several times a minute, the ferry's whistle blew,
And as the captain listened, the echo came back "Moo!"

The captain turned the vessel, still steering by the sound,
And guided by that silly cow, the ferry ran aground;
So all you Northwest sailors, give listen to me now,
And when you cruise on Puget Sound, don't navigate by cow!

Cheers, S. in Seattle ^^


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Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb
From: Deckman
Date: 04 Jan 01 - 11:39 PM

That's a very interesting idea ... start a thread about John Dwyer. The tales and songs that can be told would be numerous. His friends in the Seattle and Vancouver areas are legion. His daughter, Maggie, in Texas is very active in folk music archiving. CHEERS, Bob Nelson (deckman)


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Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb
From: Joe Offer
Date: 05 Jan 01 - 03:03 AM

Bob or Stewart, do you have a tune for "Notice to Mariners"?
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb
From: Stewart
Date: 05 Jan 01 - 12:08 PM

Here's the tune for "Notice to Mariners" CLICK HERE.

S. in Seattle


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Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb
From: Don Firth
Date: 05 Jan 01 - 05:46 PM

Stewart --

Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!

Words and tune! I cut and pasted the words into a file, which I have done a lot since I discovered DigiTrad a few years ago. Recently I got a copy of NoteWorthy Composer, discovered that I could download MIDI files, suck them into NWC which converts them to a format it can read. Then they can be displayed as written music, played on the computer, and printed out as sheet music.

The resources available to folk music enthusiasts these days are bloody miraculous!

Again, Thank you!

Don Firth

P. S: By the way, Stewart, since you seemed to be from the Seattle area, have we ever met?


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Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb
From: GUEST,Maggie Dwyer
Date: 05 Jan 01 - 11:58 PM

Don,

"Notice To Mariners" was recorded, with one small textual change, by the Shifty Sailors, a collection of singers on Whidbey Island. I was contacted by Vern Olsen for permission to record, and I suggested that he note in the liner notes that they had adapted the song to fit Admrialty Inlet near their Whidbey Island location. The name mentioned in the credits (Maggie "Lewis") is a mistake, but the permission was genuine. I know Dad would have preferred the words to stay as written, but music and songs are always being adapted to singers' needs, that's part of the folk process, and I was glad to know that this group wanted to use his song.

The CD is _Heave Ho, My Lads!_ and was performed live in Coupeville, Washington. Production values are not perfect, with that many people and the acoustics those of a coffee shop, but it is a nice array of songs recorded in conjunction with the Island County Historical Society. The Shifty Sailors can be reached via P.O. Box 53, Greenbank, WA 98253

--Maggie


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Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb
From: Deckman
Date: 06 Jan 01 - 11:24 AM

Yippe! I just found two VERY OBSCURE verses for "Frozen Logger." I found these in the late Walt Robertson song notes. I can remember him telling me that he thought Jim Stevens wrote them, but rarely sang them.

"They found him in the morning, A cold, sad frozen ghost, They took him to a stable, To make a hitching post."

"Someday a hot house will thaw him, And home to me he'll come, And I'll sit and proudly watch him, Stir his coffee with his thumb." CHEERS, Bob Nelson (deckman)


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Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb
From: Don Firth
Date: 06 Jan 01 - 03:14 PM

I have heard those two verses someplace -- I think it was from Stan James about twenty-odd years ago, but I think the words are "hot horse." The stable and all that. . . .

Thanks. I've wanted to get hold of them and wondered where Stan got them.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb
From: Deckman
Date: 06 Jan 01 - 09:12 PM

You're right Don, it is "HOT HORSE" Between Walt's scribble, and my old eyes ... oh well, you understand!


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Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb
From: GUEST,winterbright
Date: 07 Jan 01 - 04:27 PM

Oh, please, please, please... SOMEBODY send the "Frozen Jogger" lyrics before I have to write some of my own!!! This is too good to ignore!


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Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb
From: Sandy Paton
Date: 07 Jan 01 - 05:16 PM

Sorry I've been out of the loop on this one. I sang with Walt Robertson back in the dark ages in Seattle. Met him just after he got back from his hitch in the Army. He got himself a beautiful Pietro Carbone 12-string guitar while he was in New York. I remember him telling about Pietro making him sing while playing it, just to be sure he had enough voice to sing over it, before he'd agree to sell it to him. Then he crossed the country on his motorcycle with that precious instrument slung across his back!

I was living in a houseboat on Portage Bay and we had some fine song swaps there. I learned "Acres of Clams," "The Housewife's Lament," "My Old Man was a Man Like Lincoln," and many other songs from Walt. For me, he was a real goldmine and a cherished friend.

When I decided to leave Seattle, he volunteered to sing at the auction/party we threw to help raise money for my trip to New York. Another friend acted as auctioneer, and we sold all of my paintings to friends who gatheered for the great send-off. Walt must have done three sets for us that night. I guess this was just before he began doing his 15-minute folksong program on KING-TV, because I heard about it, but never saw it.

Some twenty years later, Walt came through here and stayed with us at Folk-Legacy. Caroline and I were doing a gig at the Sounding Board and took Walt along as our guest artist. He had been working as a newspaper editor (was it in Vancouver, Washington?), and had not been doing much music in the interim. Mostly he was doing the good old songs we had shared in Seattle, plus a couple of his own creation.

I was very sorry I couldn't make it to Seattle for the "celebration of his life" after he died. He played a very important part in my growing interest in folksong at a critical point in my life. Probably had more to do with the direction my life finally took that I recognized at the time. I sure am glad that Bob has his song notes, and that I now know who "deckman" is!

By the way, James Stevens also wrote some pretty good "proletarian" novels. I've just picked up a copy of Big Jim Turner, partly because one chapter describes his meeting with Joe Hill. Haven't read it all yet, but... so many other things to be done!

Sandy (remembering the good old days)


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Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb
From: Deckman
Date: 07 Jan 01 - 05:46 PM

Hi Sandy ... I'm SURE this is very BAD FORM, but I'm new enough to computers that I don't know how to e-mail back to you. I suppose I can push a magic button, or kick this machine three times, and your address will pop up. Anyway, MY e-mail is deckman@earthlink.net. I'd like to chat with you very much. CHEERS to all, Bob Nelson


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Subject: Lyr Add: FROZEN LOGGER^^^
From: StillyRiverSage (inactive)
Date: 08 Jan 01 - 12:17 AM

FROZEN LOGGER^^^
(James Stevens)

As I sat down one evening,
'Twas in a small cafe,
A forty-year old waitress, (or "six-foot seven waitress")
To me these words did say:

I see you are a logger
And not just a common bum,
For no one but a logger
Stirs his coffee with his thumb.

I had a logger lover,
There's none like him today,
If you'd pour whiskey on it
He'd eat a bale of hay.

He never shaved a whisker
From off of this horny hide,
He hammered in the bristles
And bit 'em off inside.

My logger came to see me,
Twas on a winter day,
He held me in a fond embrace
That broke three vertebrae.

He kissed me when he left me
So hard that he broke my jaw;
I could not speak to tell him
He'd forgot his mackinaw.

I saw my logger lover
Go sauntering through the snow,
A whistling gaily homeward
At forty-eight below.

The weather tried to freeze him,
It tried its level best;
At a hundred degrees below zero
He buttoned up his vest.

It froze clear through to China,
It froze to the stars above,
At a thousand degrees below zero,
It froze my logger love.

They tried in vain to thaw him,
And would you believe it sir,
They made him into axe blades
To chop the Douglas fir.

That's how I lost my logger,
And it's to this cafe I've come,
And here I wait for someone,
To stir his coffee with his thumb.

This is off the top of my head, many years since I last was anyplace to sing it. I'm sure folks can offer a few corrections or a forgotten verse or two.

Maggie


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Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb
From: StillyRiverSage (inactive)
Date: 08 Jan 01 - 12:22 AM

Well, Darn. How does one get the lines to format properly? I set the Frozen Logger in the proper stanzas and they all ran together. Do I have to use a soft return or HTML in this format?


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Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb
From: Deckman
Date: 08 Jan 01 - 01:21 AM

What a memory Maggie, you got it just right. CHEERS


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Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb
From: Sandy Paton
Date: 08 Jan 01 - 01:40 AM

It's those doggoned little HTML breaks that are necessary, Maggie, and we all mess 'em up regularly. Joe or one of his Clones can come along later and repair our goofs, thank heaven!

Bob: You can reach me (direct) at folklegacy@snet.net, or you can go to the top of the page and click on Personal Pages and scroll down to the "send a personal message" line. Tell the infernal device you want to send one to Sandy Paton, kickstart it once, gently, and Bingo!, you can write to me that way. I'll watch for your E-pistle.

Sandy


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Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb
From: Bert
Date: 09 Jan 01 - 06:58 PM

refresh - thread of the week


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Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb
From: GUEST,winterbright
Date: 10 Jan 01 - 03:01 PM

Is this Frozen JOGGER thing just a myth, or what? I can't believe NOBODY out there knows (or has the time or energy) to type 'em out. Sigh.


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Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb
From: Don Firth
Date: 10 Jan 01 - 05:08 PM

I never learned The Frozen Jogger myself, but I've definitely heard it, from John Dwyer and from others. It's not a myth.

Have patience, Winterbright. Just remember, in a world in which large numbers of folksingers are so (relatively) young that not only have they never heard The Frozen Logger (recorded by all sorts of people, including The Weavers), but they have never even heard of it, most of us who do remember the song are old geezers with Geritol stains all over our lap robes.

We're workin' on it. It just takes us a little longer to remember, that's all.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb
From: Peter T.
Date: 10 Jan 01 - 05:19 PM

bert is right, what a great thread. yours, Peter T.


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Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb
From: simon-pierre
Date: 10 Jan 01 - 07:34 PM

Don, don't be too severe with your age. I am "relatively young" (24), and I am very glad that others people share their knowledge here. I never heard the song, or heard of, before. Since I read this thread, I heard it twice this week, by the Weavers and by Bert (?) at the Mudcat Radio. Now I know a little bit about Jim Stevens, Ivar Haglund, John Dwyer, reel to reel tapes and the folk scene in Seattle... Experience and knowledge are like folk music, they need to be told and shared. Thanks you.

SP


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Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb
From: MMario
Date: 11 Jan 01 - 11:33 AM

frozen jogger has been published - there is suppossed to be a link here but I don't know as it is blocked.


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Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb
From: Deckman
Date: 11 Jan 01 - 10:42 PM

Let's keep this one going ... it's getting interesting!


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Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb
From: GUEST,winterbright
Date: 12 Jan 01 - 10:49 AM

So Don, does this knowledge of "Logger" make me a geezeress?... geezerette? Actually, I might prefer Crone-in-Training, but either of the preceeding are fine... no problem. MMario, I went to the link you so kindly provided and will check it out in detail when I'm not rushing back to my job. Thanks for the help. In the meantime, if anybody comes up with "Jogger" lyrics (especially before Sat. night) I'd shore 'preciate it!


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Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb
From: StillyRiverSage (inactive)
Date: 15 Jan 01 - 01:01 AM

Don,

Is Frozen Jogger the one with the "broken token" of a garbage bag twist tie? Or a piece of lace used in its place? Or am I thinking of something else? There were also lots of "Raggle Taggle Gypsy" parodies and I might be conflating the parodies.

Maggie


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Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb
From: Alice
Date: 15 Jan 01 - 11:18 AM

I just want to say I love this thread... The Frozen Logger songs has always intrigued me. Thanks to all who provided more information about it.

Alice Flynn


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Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb
From: Sandy Paton
Date: 15 Jan 01 - 12:44 PM

Didn't Anne Hills, Priscilla Herdman & Cindy Mangsen record "The Frozen Logger" on one of their recent (maybe released last year) CDs? I'm pretty sure I heard it played on a local folk radio show, but I don't have the CD, so I can't be sure. Who's got a copy?

Sandy


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Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb
From: GUEST,Art Brooks
Date: 15 Jan 01 - 06:02 PM

The (Seattle) song circle we belonged to in the mid-70s added this at the end: You may not believe this story, but I know it for a fact And standing there behind the door is a frozen flannel ax.


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Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 24 May 03 - 10:35 AM

I'm trying to remember a parody of this song. It's about a biker, and starts.
    As I sat down one evening, twas in a small cafe
    A forty year old waitress these words to me did say
    I see that you're a biker, my brother was one of those
    Cos only a biker has a bug spot on his nose.

    It then goes on about the fabulous bike he built and then rode, it went something like...
    He took off down the highway, he took off like a bird
    He was doing 180 when he shifted into third.
Ring any bells?
Giok


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Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb
From: GUEST,Marj
Date: 28 Jan 04 - 09:19 PM

I just LOVE this song. I've only heard Oscar Brand do it, and he sings a different last 2 verses:

They found him in the mornin'
A poor, sad, frozen ghost
And they set him up in a stable
As a horse's hitching post.

Some day some hot horse will thaw him,
And back to me he'll come
And I'll sit and I'll proudly watch him
Stirring coffee with his thumb!


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Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb
From: Acme
Date: 28 Jan 04 - 09:31 PM

Ohhh- me in my former life! I lost my original Mudcat password and such and set up this Stilly River Sage account. Someone fixed it so I'm only on this account now. (Fessing up, since several folks have been going through name changes lately here, like Mike, er, can't remember that last name--Rapaire, and others).

Looks like it's Old Home Week at Mudcat. Several Pacific Northwest threads revived. I do need to track down those words to the "Frozen Jogger." I heard Dad sing that one frequently, so the words are no doubt in one of these boxes around here.

SRS


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Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb
From: EBarnacle
Date: 29 Jan 04 - 10:27 AM

A recent parody can be found on the Steadfast Sailor thread.


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Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb - Frozen Logger
From: bbc
Date: 11 Feb 04 - 09:43 AM

Sandy,

I don't know about the trio recording the song, but I have it on Cindy Mangsen & Steve Gillette's Live in Concert recording from 1991. Fun song!

best always,

Barbara


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Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb - Frozen Logger
From: Bat Goddess
Date: 11 Feb 04 - 03:06 PM

Funny -- just before checking in to Mudcat I was listening to Priscilla Herdman, Anne Hills & Cindy Mangsen's recording of "Frozen Logger" and "Proper Cup of Coffee" on "Voices of Winter" CD.

Linn


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Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb - Frozen Logger
From: BK Lick
Date: 11 Feb 04 - 06:02 PM

Ah, ain't it sweet how these old threads never die; they just fade away until someone comes along after a few years and revives them again.

Yes, Sandy—Herdman, Hills, and Mangsen recorded it on their 1997 Gadfly album, Voices of Winter as a medley with Proper Cup of Coffee.

Here in Chicago, in the bleak midwinter, this CD occupies a permanent slot in our changer. It helps us pull through.

          — BK


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Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb - Frozen Logger
From: Buzzer65
Date: 04 Nov 05 - 03:57 PM

Yes! Thank God they never die!!! I found this on a download engine sung by Cisco Houston...A great song..I am looking for some tabs to go with it...I'm a 68 year old learner and I want this in my collection...Anybody help?


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Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb - Frozen Logger
From: Stewart
Date: 04 Nov 05 - 05:40 PM

You can get this song - The Frozen Logger - and a parody - The Frozen Jogger - on my CD - Songs of the Pacific Northwest.

Cheers, S in Seattle


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Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb - Frozen Logger
From: Amos
Date: 04 Nov 05 - 05:44 PM

Buzzer -- the chords are very direct - 1, 4 and 5.


A


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Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb - Frozen Logger
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 05 Nov 05 - 02:13 AM

Apparently I missed this thread when it was newer. It might be of interest to note that the "Logger" appears in at least 5 books in my collection, although all of them are "popular versions" with little information on origins.

Variously shown under the titles " The Frozen Logger," "The Frozen Lover," or "The Logger Lover:"

Rise Up Singing, Ed Peter Blood & Annie Patterson, Sing Out Publication, ISBN 0-9626704-7-2, I believe this is lyrics only.

The Incomplete Folksinger, Pete Seeger, Univ of Nebraska Press, 1992, ISBN 0-8032-9216-3, lyrics only, may be an incomplete fragment.

Folk Songs Of North America, Alan Lomax, Doubleday & Co., Inc, NY 1960, Melody, Chords, 11 verses.

The New Song Fest: 300 Songs, Intercollegiate Outing Club Association. (©1960 I believe, but my copy has a few pages missing). Out of print so far as I know, but copies occasionally seen.

Songs For Swingin' Housemothers, F. Lynn, Chandler, 1961. Out of print, and a little rarer than the IOCA book, but worth looking for. There are several editions, but so far as I've heard it hasn't been published since about 1963.(?)

From Sea to Shining Sea (A Treasury of American Folklore and Folk Songs) , compiled by and ©Amy L. Cohn, Scholastic Publishing 1993, ISBN 0-590-42868-3.

The last one is the only one my index indicates has more than single staff notation (melody line). It shows "simplified piano." It is a fairly recent compilation, and I believe I got it off a Barnes or Borders "sale" table. Since a lot of what shows up at either place as sale items is printed specifically for the sale table, it may still be in print.

I don't find anything in my collection on "The Frozen Jogger," which I'm sure I've seen, and I'm pretty sure I've also seen another parody called "The Frozen Climber" – for which I also can find no trace at all. (I found that the Song Fest book has "the other classic mountaineer club parody" – "Gory, Gory, Hallelujah" but apparently not the "Frozen Climber".)

John


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Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb - Frozen Logger
From: Ep' Eric
Date: 05 Nov 05 - 07:42 AM

I Have been singing this song, with guitar accompaniment, for many
years at Ep'th folk club in England . I think I got
it from the Burle Ives songbook. Also the previously mentioned
Devil and Farmer's Wife.

I understood his Mackinaw, to be his top coat that kept the cold out,
as if it mattered.

                                        Eric
                                        Epworth.


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Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb - Frozen Logger
From: kendall
Date: 05 Nov 05 - 07:52 AM

Considering that it was a Scot who invented the raincoat, it was probably named a "MacIntosh", whereas the Mackinaw is a heavy outer coat made for warmth, not rain.


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Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb - Frozen Logger
From: Tannywheeler
Date: 05 Nov 05 - 09:52 AM

Yeah, but:
1)MacIntosh doesn't rhyme with jaw; and/or,
2)"Mackinaw" is the pronounciation of an island in one of the Great Lakes in a logging area (of either Canada or U.S.), which has SERIOUS winter, and therefore would need heavy-duty outerwear which might be named for the location.????? Maybe????
And I sang this for an old friend, the bar manager at the cafe (that hosted great song/instrumental sessions for years) on her 40th b'day. She loved it--like everyone else in the room.    Tw


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Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb - Frozen Logger
From: Mark Ross
Date: 05 Nov 05 - 11:49 AM

A Mackinaw is a heavy wool coat worn by loggers.

Mark Ross


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Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb - Frozen Logger
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 05 Nov 05 - 01:10 PM

Mackinaws

CAPOTES & WOOL CLOTHING appears to claim to make "authentic period clothing" of various kinds. The "authenticity" is unknown, but the various designs shown illustrate the "trad lore" that outer coats commonly were made from blankets and/or "blanket cloth." A "Mackinaw" is about half way down the page.

Tradition appears to say that the Mackinaw coat is/was named for "Old Mackinac" which was a fort in Michigan, at or near the the present town of Mackinaw. Several online dictionaries cite, pretty much identically:

"ETYMOLOGY: After Old Mackinac, a fort on the site of present-day Mackinaw City in northern Michigan. "

Note that the common pronunciation of both "Mackinac" and "Mackinaw" places the accent/emphasis on the first syllable. A bit of historical research might find a MacKinac associated with the fort, but none of the easily found web info makes any comment, so about all that can be safely concluded is that it looks/sounds like it might have a Scots origin or lineage. Nothing found thus far indicates a time or even an era for the establishment of the fort.

Yukon/klondike gold rush stampeder's supply list, 1898 identified as the list provided by the Northern Pacific Railroad, includes "one Mackinaw coat." Reliability of this site is unknown. I'd dig a little deeper if it really mattered before citing this as an "authentic historical document," but tradition generally supports the use of the "Mackinaw" coat identification at and/or well prior to this era.

The "style" of the Mackinaw, as it's known in the US is a heavy coat made usually of close-woven wool cloth resembling a thick (i.e. old-fashioned) blanket material, about "butt-length" and presumed to be shortened to provide greater freedom of movement than other styles.

The quick look via Google, taking just the surface scum, provides no particular support not clearly hearsay that this style was particularly favored by lumberjacks, even though that is "oral tradition." Photographs from the turn of the century of lumberjack camps show a few coats of this (short) style, but longer styles are much more prevalent.

It appears to have been common practice to make outer garments from blankets, and some blankets were plaid; but there is little support for the notion that "plaid" was an essential part of the early usage for the "Mackinaw" coat. It's about as likely that the nearly universal use of plaid material was a later marketing ploy – "It sound's sort of Scot, so it should be plaid."

Military Mackinaw (Jeep Coat) in World War II shows the US Army version(s). In typical military fashion, the most frequently commented "feature" of this coat was that although it was intended for "Jeep drivers" the tail was not quite long enough to actually sit on, and was an uncomfortable lump when it crawled up behind one's butt.

I don't know to what extent the military usage popularized the Mackinaw name, but immediately post-WWII the Mackinaw (commercial retail version) was one of the most popular jacket styles for kids. Boys who were in grade school in the mid to late 1940s, especially in small/rural schools where sophisticated heating was less common, probably remember the "lumpy butt syndrome" quite well. In that time period, the retail products were invariably plaid, and other names were used for the same "cut" if another material was used.

John


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Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb - Frozen Logger
From: Don Firth
Date: 05 Nov 05 - 01:18 PM

One of the first songs I learned back in the mists of antiquity.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb - Frozen Logger
From: Deckman
Date: 05 Nov 05 - 02:44 PM

Don ... You learned this soooo long ago you still had your Swedish accent ... or did you learn it in Ballard! CHEERS, Bob(deckman)Nelson


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Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb - Frozen Logger
From: Don Firth
Date: 05 Nov 05 - 03:01 PM

Actually, the first time I ever heard the song was before I got involved in folk music. It was back about 1949 or so at the party after the Pacific International Fencing Tournament in Vancouver, B. C. where they presented the trophies and medals and then we all went to work replacing the bodily fluids we had sweated out over the weekend. Dan Drumheller, one of the Spokane fencers (and one helluva swordsman!), when sufficiently loosened up by the free-flowing beverages provided by our host, lifted his voice in song and gave out with two ditties:   The Frozen Logger and When the Iceworms Nest Again. Didn't play the guitar as far as I know, but he was quite a good singer.

Which reminds me. I've always been going to learn Iceworms, but never did. Well, better late than never.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: frozen logger
From: Genie
Date: 18 Mar 06 - 10:01 PM

I posted this in the Mangled Lyrics thread -- where you use an internet "translation" program and translate first from English to German, then from German to French, and finally from French back to English -- but this particular song "circular translation" was way to funny to leave buried there, so here is The Frozen Logger, BabelFish style: ;-D

THE CRANE OF BLOCK FROZEN

Like me one evening in the small coffee hinsass,
has the forty waitresses of year of to me that these words said:
"I sees that you are a crane of block, and not precisely ordinary Gammler,
because nobody, a crane of block agitates however his coffee is an inch.

My liked was a crane of block. There is none today of it but him.
If you pour Whisky on him, it would eat a package hay.

It never shaved its Whiskers by far its skin hornigen.
It would bite it far towards the interior inside with a hammer zerstossen and it right.

My liked came to see one day of winter me afterwards.
It held covered me in a vernarrtem which broke three movements.

It embraced me, distributed us, therefore strongly it in my Kiefer fallows some;
I could not speak, to declare to him that it forgot its mackinaw.

Then, sauntering I saw wanting to say liked to leave and by snow
and joyeusement heimwaerts went to the bottom forty-eight.

Time tried to freeze time him; it tested its level well.
With degrees hundred below zero, it buttoned its waistcoat.

It has cold it towards China, has clearly cold in top with stars.
It has cold my love of crane of block to miles degrees above below zero.

In futile, you would thaw out it and tried to believe you him, Sir?
He in the axtblaetter, the Douglas ones precisely left you with Spot cuts.

And thus, I lost want to say liked, and I came to this coffee,
and here I, wait somebody agitates his coffee with his inch."


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Subject: RE: frozen logger
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 18 Mar 06 - 11:19 PM

"agitates his coffee with his inch"



....... !!!!!!!!!!


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Subject: RE: frozen logger
From: Acme
Date: 19 Mar 06 - 12:41 AM

We were playing that game a while back here a Mudcat, multiple translations of a text (probably over at MOAB)--it can be quite a revelation as to the work language is doing!


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Subject: RE: frozen logger
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 19 Mar 06 - 06:49 AM

Try 'Mangled Lyrics' Thread.


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Subject: RE: frozen logger
From: Leadfingers
Date: 19 Mar 06 - 06:59 AM

Frozen logger AND New Pipes ??


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Subject: RE: frozen logger
From: Deckman
Date: 19 Mar 06 - 10:34 AM

Jim Stevens told me in 1959 that the first verse, as was populiarly known then, is INCORRECT. He said that he wrote: "A SIX FOOT SEVEN WAITRESS ...: Bob(deckman)Nelson


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Subject: RE: frozen logger
From: Big Jim from Jackson
Date: 19 Mar 06 - 10:36 AM

Somewhere I heard a last verse that had something about they turned him into axe-heads to cut the northern pine. Or words to that effect.


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Subject: RE: frozen logger
From: Acme
Date: 19 Mar 06 - 10:47 AM

Nope. He's a Northwestern hero--it's Douglas fir. Anything else is someone's adaptation of the original!


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Subject: RE: frozen logger
From: open mike
Date: 19 Mar 06 - 10:48 AM

wow-the only thing that didn't get mangled was the mackinaw...
isn't a mangle an iron that presses garments??


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Subject: RE: frozen logger
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 19 Mar 06 - 10:56 AM

    As I sat down one evening, twas in a small cafe
    A forty year old waitress these words to me did say
    I see that you're a biker, my brother was one of those
    Cos only a biker has a bug spot on his nose.

This goes on about a motorbike that her brother built and there's part of a verse that goes.
    He drove off down the highway, he took off like bird
    He was doing 180, when he shifted into third................

Can't remember any more, can anybody help me with the rest of this parody?
Giok


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Subject: RE: frozen logger
From: GUEST,Tom Bliss
Date: 19 Mar 06 - 12:06 PM

Coincidence or what? Napper and I were just talking about this very song at Nottingham last week, and up it pops here! Love the translation. Slide once had a feature in Keltica, the wonderful Italian folk magazine. The babelfish traslation is rather amusing too...

click and scroll near the bottom
------------------------------------------------------------------------


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Subject: RE: frozen logger
From: GUEST,Joe_F
Date: 19 Mar 06 - 09:02 PM

IIRC, the stanza "They tried in vain..." was missing from the version in oral circulation at Putney School, VT, in 1954. However, I'm pretty sure I heard it soon after.

--- Joe Fineman    joe_f@verizon.net

||: The individual is a social invention; the community is an earlier and cruder one. :||


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Subject: RE: frozen logger
From: Joe Richman
Date: 19 Mar 06 - 09:13 PM

Our Pastor today in church sang a Garrison Keilor "Prairie Home Companion" parody of the "Frozen Logger" about a logger who took up golf and jogging. His girlfriend, the waitress, dumped him because he became too much of a sissy for her tastes.

That's what happens to pastors who spend a couple of years pastoring in Minnesota! They start incorporating GK material into their sermons.


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Subject: RE: frozen logger
From: Lanfranc
Date: 20 Mar 06 - 06:46 AM

When I first learned this song, a forty year old waitress seemed unimaginably ancient. Now, she's a mere slip of a girl!!

I have substituted "Zero degrees Kelvin" for "a thousand degrees below zero" because it seems to scan better and maintains my reputation as a smartarse!

Alan


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Subject: RE: frozen logger
From: GUEST,Joe_F
Date: 20 Mar 06 - 08:49 PM

Lanfranc: I can't make "zero degrees Kelvin" scan to the usual tune. Anyway, to be an up-to-date smartarse you should make it "zero kelvins"; current official style is to treat the kelvin like other units. That doesn't scan at all, of course, but you could sing "When it got down to zero kelvins".

IMO, however, a song that is already anatomically, meteorologically, geologically, and astronomically impossible may perfectly well go on to violate the third law of thermodynamics.

--- Joe Fineman    joe_f@verizon.net

||: Entities exist promiscuously. :||


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Subject: RE: frozen logger
From: Fred Maslan
Date: 21 Mar 06 - 07:42 PM

You may not believe this story
But I have it for the facts
For hangin in my cabin
Is a frozen flannel axe


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Subject: RE: frozen logger
From: GUEST
Date: 12 May 11 - 02:39 PM

don't matter which version you sing,just remember, jim wrote it here, northern washington......


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Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb:Tales of the Frozen Logger
From: Joe Offer
Date: 12 May 11 - 03:21 PM

Here's the entry from the Traditional Ballad index, which states the song may have traditional roots. Anybody have access to the cited issue of Wisconsin Folklore?

    Frozen Logger, The

    DESCRIPTION: The singer meets a waitress. She recognizes him as a logger, and tells him the sad tale of her amazing logger lover. One night he forgot his Mackinaw, and at last, "at a thousand degrees below zero, it froze my logger love."
    AUTHOR: James Stevens (1892-1971)
    EARLIEST DATE: 1951
    KEYWORDS: love logger death talltale
    FOUND IN:
    REFERENCES (4 citations):
    Lomax-FSNA 61, "The Frozen Logger" (1 text, 1 tune)
    Silber-FSWB, p. 30, "The Frozen Logger" (1 text)
    DT, FROZLOGR*
    ADDITIONAL: Walker D. Wyman, _Wisconsin Folklore_, University of Wisconsin Extension (?), 1979, pp. 35-36, has a version, quite different from the Weavers text, which he apparently thinks is traditional folklore

    Roud #5470
    NOTES: There is a good deal of uncertainty about the author of this. Not that there is any question that the author's name was pronounced "James Stevens"; all seem to agree on this. But different sources have spelled it "Stevens" or "Stephens."
    Research by Abby Sale and others supports the theory that the author was the James Stevens whose dates are cited above; he also wrote the classic book Paul Bunyan in 1925. The "Stephens" spelling may possibly be by confusion with the Irish author James Stephens.
    According to Sing Out!, Volume 37, #3 (1993), p. 72, Stevens based this on an actual lumberjack tall tale. But, of course, Stevens also claimed his Paul Bunyan stories come from that source -- and many of them clearly came out of his head.
    It may be questioned whether this is a folk song. I would not so count it, despite its inclusion in Lomax. Nonetheless, the versions have been folk processed to a certain extent -- notably in the first verse, where the original version read "A six foot seven waitress." Somebody (the Weavers?) converted this to the unremarkable "A forty year old waitress," and of course this has been common since, even though the line is banal and does nothing to enhance the tall tale aspects of the song.
    There is some interesting science (or, perhaps, lack of science) here. There is, of course, no such temperature as a thousand degrees below zero, in either the Farenheit or Celsius scales; Absolute zero is at -459.7 degrees Farenheit -- and anything not made of helium (which is everything more complex than a single atom) will have frozen rock-solid far warmer than that.
    But it is in fact not unlikely that the logger was hard to freeze. Assume the logger's girl was, in fact, 79 inches tall. This would make her at least 15 inches taller than the average woman of Stevens's time. That's 23% taller. Presumably her lover is also about 23% taller than average. (For the time, that makes him an inch or two above seven feet.).
    And that brings in what is called the "square-cube law" or "the law of squares and cubes": That the surface area of an shape increases as the square of its linear dimension, but the volume increases as the cube of its linear dimension. In simpler terms, as something gets bigger, its surface area gets smaller relative to its volume. By a lot.
    Which is significant, because the heat generated by a body is roughly proportional to its volume, but heat loss is roughly proportional to surface area. The fact that the logger was very big did make him significantly less vulnerable to cold (though more vulnerable to heat). So while this is a tall tale, it's a little less tall than it might have been.- RBW
    File: LoF061

    Go to the Ballad Search form
    Go to the Ballad Index Instructions
    Go to the Bibiography
    Go to the Discography

    The Ballad Index Copyright 2010 by Robert B. Waltz and David G. Engle.



Here are the lyrics from The Folk Songs of North America (Alan Lomax, 1960), #61, page 120-121.

THE FROZEN LOGGER
(James Stevens)

As I sat down one evening Within a small cafe,
A forty-year-old waitress To me these words did say:

'I see you are a logger, And not a common bum,
For no one but a logger Stirs his coffee with his thumb.

'My lover was a logger, There's none like him today;
If you poured whisky on it, He'd eat a bale of hay.

'He never shaved the whiskers From off his horny hide,
But he drove them in with a hammer And bit 'em off inside.

'My logger came to see me On one freezing day,
He held me in a fond embrace That broke three vertebrae.

'He kissed me when we parted, So hard he broke my jaw;
I could not speak to tell him He'd forgot his mackinaw.

'I saw my logger lover Sauntering through the snow,
A-going gaily homeward At forty-eight below.

'The weather tried to freeze him, It tried its level best,
At one hundred degrees below zero He buttoned up his vest.

'It froze clean through to China, It froze to the stars above,
At one thousand degrees below zero It froze my logger love.

'They tried in vain to thaw him, And if you'll believe me, sir.
They made him into axe-blades To chop the Douglas fir.

'And so I lost my lover, And to this cafe I come,
And here I wait till someone Stirs his coffee with his thumb.'


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Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb:Tales of the Frozen Logger
From: fretless
Date: 13 May 11 - 03:44 PM

As noted somewhere above, that waitress seemed really old when we started singing this song. Now, we just add a decade to her age whenever we pass another threshhold. At this point, her salary as a waitress is little more than a supplement to what she'd be collecting from Social Security!

I much prefer the "traditional" ending verse that has her waiting until someone stirs his coffee with his thumb, which implies that the narrator of the story is either in for a good time or in need of a hasty escape, depending on how one views the amorous attentions of an elderly (see above) waitress. The ending that has her waiting for her lover to reappear as a frozen or recently thawed hitching post has none of that humorous promise/threat.

And since no one has posted the words to the parody Frozen Jogger here (they are on another Mudcat stream and I believe also in the DT), here they are:

The Frozen Jogger
Tune: The Frozen Logger
Words: David Spalding & John Dwyer
A parody based on The Frozen Logger by James Stevens

As I ran out one evening, along the snowy street,
A warmly bundled housewife I happened there to meet.

She said, You are a jogger, for this I surely know,
That no-one but a jogger wears shorts at ten below.

My husband was a jogger, the greatest of them all,
He jogged in spring and summer, in winter and in fall.

Had breakfast on the sidewalk, and lunch along the path,
And every night at midnight, he'd jog up to his bath.

He left for work one morning, the weather cold and clear;
He'd gone before I realized he'd left his sweater here.

Ten times I phoned his office to see if he'd arrived,
His secretary told me she feared he'd not survived.

The weather turned still colder, to 45 below,
And somewhere still my husband was jogging in the snow.

He never reached his office, he never came back here,
I fear he must have wandered for many a weary year.

He never sent a letter, nor phoned me after dark.
But once there was a rumor he was seen in Stanley Park.

Each evening after sunset, I sit here in my seat,
Still hoping that my husband will come jogging down the street.

That's how I lost my husband, the greatest and the best,
But he's been gone for ages, so come in and take a rest.

(Additional Words by John Dwyer)

I reached into my pocket, still gazing at her face,
And in her outstretched fingers, I placed a broken lace.

Remember, dear, this token, that we did cut in twain,
So you would truly know me, when I returned again.

So show me now your token, my love, I beg you,
That I may know you surely, and that you have been true.

At that she sobbed, heartbroken, I can't, alas, alack,
I used it just last Tuesday, to tie the garbage sack!

O faithless one, I shuddered, how could you use me so?
So once again I turned and went off jogging through the snow.


Published in Canadian Folk Bulletin Vol 20, No 2., p. 4 (without author credit for the words)

"The first set of words are mine ((c) Brandywine
Enterprises B.C. Ltd.) and the second set by the late John Dwyer, who
popularized it on the coast and brilliantly finished the story as a broken
token parody.
I wrote this in Edmonton at the height of the jogging craze, when people
were really padding off into the snowy night, though not perhaps at 40
below. (The coldest I ever experienced, with wind chill, was -57)."
Dave Spalding in Edmonton, Alberta


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Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb:Tales of the Frozen Logger
From: Mysha
Date: 19 Jan 13 - 02:48 AM

Hi,

I was just looking for a bit of a background before I sing this.

It occurs to me that a lady could open with something like:

A seven foot stranger, one evening, sat down in our small cafe
And having served him coffee, I to him these words did say:


Mysha


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Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb:Tales of the Frozen Logger
From: BrooklynJay
Date: 24 Feb 14 - 08:58 PM

One of my favorite songs, to be sure.

Interestingly enough, in 1963 it was made into an animated cartoon in Czechoslovakia. I remember seeing it on Public Television at least 25 years ago, and now I find that it's available on YouTube. Click here and enjoy!

One more thing: despite what the YouTube info says, this version is not sung by Pete Seeger and Fred Hellerman, but by Lee Hays. Does anyone know where this version came from?


Jay


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Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb:Tales of the Frozen Logger
From: kendall
Date: 25 Feb 14 - 05:07 PM

Actually, I did record this gem, Seagulls and Summer people on Folk Legacy records. Mid 70s as I recall.


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Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb:Tales of the Frozen Logger
From: Stewart
Date: 25 Feb 14 - 06:05 PM

Frozen Logger by James Stevens
Jim Stevens talks about his books and songs
and Don Firth sings The Frozen Logger

and then there's the Frozen Jogger

Cheers, S. in Seattle


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Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb:Tales of the Frozen Logger
From: Acme
Date: 09 Jul 17 - 11:23 AM

Stewart, I just noticed this thread again (it is, alas, a spam magnet). Thanks for posting the link to Frozen Jogger. Dad (John Dwyer) had quite a few parodies in his repertoire.


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Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb:Tales of the Frozen Logger
From: Cool Beans
Date: 09 Jul 17 - 12:13 PM

And there's this, The Frozen Blogger

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uoo30CpNn1g


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Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb:Tales of the Frozen Logger
From: GUEST,Bob Schwarer
Date: 09 Jul 17 - 01:35 PM

Found Johnny Cash did this. It's on YouTube:

https://youtu.be/KUfzDIKGkQI

Link retrieved and added by curious mudelf.
Also, a Russian ad bot is hitting this thread really hard lately so it will be temporarily closed. Contact a mod if you want it reopened to add anything.


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Subject: Продвижение сай&
From: GUEST,adbotru
Date: 10 Jul 17 - 06:17 PM

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Продвижение групп ВКонтакте, в твиттере и фейсбуке.
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