coffee stirred by thumb:Tales of the Frozen Logger

Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb
From: GUEST,winterbright
Date: 12 Jan 01 - 10:49 AM

So Don, does this knowledge of "Logger" make me a geezeress?... geezerette? Actually, I might prefer Crone-in-Training, but either of the preceeding are fine... no problem. MMario, I went to the link you so kindly provided and will check it out in detail when I'm not rushing back to my job. Thanks for the help. In the meantime, if anybody comes up with "Jogger" lyrics (especially before Sat. night) I'd shore 'preciate it!

Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb
From: Deckman
Date: 11 Jan 01 - 10:42 PM

Let's keep this one going ... it's getting interesting!

Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb
From: MMario
Date: 11 Jan 01 - 11:33 AM

frozen jogger has been published - there is suppossed to be a link here but I don't know as it is blocked.

Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb
From: simon-pierre
Date: 10 Jan 01 - 07:34 PM

Don, don't be too severe with your age. I am "relatively young" (24), and I am very glad that others people share their knowledge here. I never heard the song, or heard of, before. Since I read this thread, I heard it twice this week, by the Weavers and by Bert (?) at the Mudcat Radio. Now I know a little bit about Jim Stevens, Ivar Haglund, John Dwyer, reel to reel tapes and the folk scene in Seattle... Experience and knowledge are like folk music, they need to be told and shared. Thanks you.

SP

Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb
From: Peter T.
Date: 10 Jan 01 - 05:19 PM

bert is right, what a great thread. yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb
From: Don Firth
Date: 10 Jan 01 - 05:08 PM

I never learned The Frozen Jogger myself, but I've definitely heard it, from John Dwyer and from others. It's not a myth.

Have patience, Winterbright. Just remember, in a world in which large numbers of folksingers are so (relatively) young that not only have they never heard The Frozen Logger (recorded by all sorts of people, including The Weavers), but they have never even heard of it, most of us who do remember the song are old geezers with Geritol stains all over our lap robes.

We're workin' on it. It just takes us a little longer to remember, that's all.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb
From: GUEST,winterbright
Date: 10 Jan 01 - 03:01 PM

Is this Frozen JOGGER thing just a myth, or what? I can't believe NOBODY out there knows (or has the time or energy) to type 'em out. Sigh.

Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb
From: Bert
Date: 09 Jan 01 - 06:58 PM

refresh - thread of the week

Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb
From: Sandy Paton
Date: 08 Jan 01 - 01:40 AM

It's those doggoned little HTML breaks that are necessary, Maggie, and we all mess 'em up regularly. Joe or one of his Clones can come along later and repair our goofs, thank heaven!

Bob: You can reach me (direct) at [e-mail], or you can go to the top of the page and click on Personal Pages and scroll down to the "send a personal message" line. Tell the infernal device you want to send one to Sandy Paton, kickstart it once, gently, and Bingo!, you can write to me that way. I'll watch for your E-pistle.

Sandy

Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb
From: Deckman
Date: 08 Jan 01 - 01:21 AM

What a memory Maggie, you got it just right. CHEERS

Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb
From: StillyRiverSage (inactive)
Date: 08 Jan 01 - 12:22 AM

Well, Darn. How does one get the lines to format properly? I set the Frozen Logger in the proper stanzas and they all ran together. Do I have to use a soft return or HTML in this format?

Subject: Lyr Add: FROZEN LOGGER^^^
From: StillyRiverSage (inactive)
Date: 08 Jan 01 - 12:17 AM

FROZEN LOGGER^^^
(James Stevens)

As I sat down one evening,
'Twas in a small cafe,
A forty-year old waitress, (or "six-foot seven waitress")
To me these words did say:

I see you are a logger
And not just a common bum,
For no one but a logger
Stirs his coffee with his thumb.

I had a logger lover,
There's none like him today,
If you'd pour whiskey on it
He'd eat a bale of hay.

He never shaved a whisker
From off of this horny hide,
He hammered in the bristles
And bit 'em off inside.

My logger came to see me,
Twas on a winter day,
He held me in a fond embrace
That broke three vertebrae.

He kissed me when he left me
So hard that he broke my jaw;
I could not speak to tell him
He'd forgot his mackinaw.

I saw my logger lover
Go sauntering through the snow,
A whistling gaily homeward
At forty-eight below.

The weather tried to freeze him,
It tried its level best;
At a hundred degrees below zero
He buttoned up his vest.

It froze clear through to China,
It froze to the stars above,
At a thousand degrees below zero,
It froze my logger love.

They tried in vain to thaw him,
And would you believe it sir,
They made him into axe blades
To chop the Douglas fir.

That's how I lost my logger,
And it's to this cafe I've come,
And here I wait for someone,
To stir his coffee with his thumb.

This is off the top of my head, many years since I last was anyplace to sing it. I'm sure folks can offer a few corrections or a forgotten verse or two.

Maggie

Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb
From: Deckman
Date: 07 Jan 01 - 05:46 PM

Hi Sandy ... I'm SURE this is very BAD FORM, but I'm new enough to computers that I don't know how to e-mail back to you. I suppose I can push a magic button, or kick this machine three times, and your address will pop up. Anyway, MY e-mail is [e-mail]. I'd like to chat with you very much. CHEERS to all, Bob Nelson

Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb
From: Sandy Paton
Date: 07 Jan 01 - 05:16 PM

Sorry I've been out of the loop on this one. I sang with Walt Robertson back in the dark ages in Seattle. Met him just after he got back from his hitch in the Army. He got himself a beautiful Pietro Carbone 12-string guitar while he was in New York. I remember him telling about Pietro making him sing while playing it, just to be sure he had enough voice to sing over it, before he'd agree to sell it to him. Then he crossed the country on his motorcycle with that precious instrument slung across his back!

I was living in a houseboat on Portage Bay and we had some fine song swaps there. I learned "Acres of Clams," "The Housewife's Lament," "My Old Man was a Man Like Lincoln," and many other songs from Walt. For me, he was a real goldmine and a cherished friend.

When I decided to leave Seattle, he volunteered to sing at the auction/party we threw to help raise money for my trip to New York. Another friend acted as auctioneer, and we sold all of my paintings to friends who gatheered for the great send-off. Walt must have done three sets for us that night. I guess this was just before he began doing his 15-minute folksong program on KING-TV, because I heard about it, but never saw it.

Some twenty years later, Walt came through here and stayed with us at Folk-Legacy. Caroline and I were doing a gig at the Sounding Board and took Walt along as our guest artist. He had been working as a newspaper editor (was it in Vancouver, Washington?), and had not been doing much music in the interim. Mostly he was doing the good old songs we had shared in Seattle, plus a couple of his own creation.

I was very sorry I couldn't make it to Seattle for the "celebration of his life" after he died. He played a very important part in my growing interest in folksong at a critical point in my life. Probably had more to do with the direction my life finally took that I recognized at the time. I sure am glad that Bob has his song notes, and that I now know who "deckman" is!

By the way, James Stevens also wrote some pretty good "proletarian" novels. I've just picked up a copy of Big Jim Turner, partly because one chapter describes his meeting with Joe Hill. Haven't read it all yet, but... so many other things to be done!

Sandy (remembering the good old days)

Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb
From: GUEST,winterbright
Date: 07 Jan 01 - 04:27 PM

Oh, please, please, please... SOMEBODY send the "Frozen Jogger" lyrics before I have to write some of my own!!! This is too good to ignore!

Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb
From: Deckman
Date: 06 Jan 01 - 09:12 PM

You're right Don, it is "HOT HORSE" Between Walt's scribble, and my old eyes ... oh well, you understand!

Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb
From: Don Firth
Date: 06 Jan 01 - 03:14 PM

I have heard those two verses someplace -- I think it was from Stan James about twenty-odd years ago, but I think the words are "hot horse." The stable and all that. . . .

Thanks. I've wanted to get hold of them and wondered where Stan got them.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb
From: Deckman
Date: 06 Jan 01 - 11:24 AM

Yippe! I just found two VERY OBSCURE verses for "Frozen Logger." I found these in the late Walt Robertson song notes. I can remember him telling me that he thought Jim Stevens wrote them, but rarely sang them.

"They found him in the morning, A cold, sad frozen ghost, They took him to a stable, To make a hitching post."

"Someday a hot house will thaw him, And home to me he'll come, And I'll sit and proudly watch him, Stir his coffee with his thumb." CHEERS, Bob Nelson (deckman)

Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb
From: GUEST,Maggie Dwyer
Date: 05 Jan 01 - 11:58 PM

Don,

"Notice To Mariners" was recorded, with one small textual change, by the Shifty Sailors, a collection of singers on Whidbey Island. I was contacted by Vern Olsen for permission to record, and I suggested that he note in the liner notes that they had adapted the song to fit Admrialty Inlet near their Whidbey Island location. The name mentioned in the credits (Maggie "Lewis") is a mistake, but the permission was genuine. I know Dad would have preferred the words to stay as written, but music and songs are always being adapted to singers' needs, that's part of the folk process, and I was glad to know that this group wanted to use his song.

The CD is _Heave Ho, My Lads!_ and was performed live in Coupeville, Washington. Production values are not perfect, with that many people and the acoustics those of a coffee shop, but it is a nice array of songs recorded in conjunction with the Island County Historical Society. The Shifty Sailors can be reached via P.O. Box 53, Greenbank, WA 98253

--Maggie

Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb
From: Don Firth
Date: 05 Jan 01 - 05:46 PM

Stewart --

Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!

Words and tune! I cut and pasted the words into a file, which I have done a lot since I discovered DigiTrad a few years ago. Recently I got a copy of NoteWorthy Composer, discovered that I could download MIDI files, suck them into NWC which converts them to a format it can read. Then they can be displayed as written music, played on the computer, and printed out as sheet music.

The resources available to folk music enthusiasts these days are bloody miraculous!

Again, Thank you!

Don Firth

P. S: By the way, Stewart, since you seemed to be from the Seattle area, have we ever met?

Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb
From: Stewart
Date: 05 Jan 01 - 12:08 PM

Here's the tune for "Notice to Mariners" CLICK HERE.

S. in Seattle

Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb
From: Joe Offer
Date: 05 Jan 01 - 03:03 AM

Bob or Stewart, do you have a tune for "Notice to Mariners"?
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb
From: Deckman
Date: 04 Jan 01 - 11:39 PM

That's a very interesting idea ... start a thread about John Dwyer. The tales and songs that can be told would be numerous. His friends in the Seattle and Vancouver areas are legion. His daughter, Maggie, in Texas is very active in folk music archiving. CHEERS, Bob Nelson (deckman)

Subject: Lyr Add: NOTICE TO MARINERS (John Dwyer) ^^
From: Stewart
Date: 04 Jan 01 - 11:26 PM

Yes, John Dwyer was certainly one of a kind, and sorely missed. I only knew him for about a year, and wish I had gotten to know him better before his untimely departure. Anyway here is his song "Notice to Mariners". Perhaps I or someone should start a new thread on John Dwyer songs.

NOTICE TO MARINERS -- John Dwyer, 1974

Come all you Northwest sailors, who cruise on Puget Sound,
And listen to my story, for well it will astound;
'Tis of a ferry captain, who ventured forth one day,
And of the fate befell him, as he sailed on the bay.

The ferry left Seattle, 'twas on a foggy day,
The captain had no worries, for well he knew the way;
He headed 'cross the water, where finny things abound,
And set his course for Bremerton, across famed Puget Sound.

He left Seattle Harbor, and passed Duwamish Head,
Past Alki on the port side, he westerly did head;
And now 'twas open water, across to Orchard Point,
Through fog as thick as chowder, the ferry's bow did point.

Now all good skippers have a trick, who sail these waters 'round,
And when the fog is thickest, 'tis then they steer by sound;
Full several times a minute, their whistle loud they blow,
And by the echo bouncing, when land is close they know.

The ferry neared Rich Passage. a place of rocks and shoals,
And narrow as an hourglass, as past Point White she goes,
The captain slowed the ferry, and not to run aground,
He blew upon his whistle, and listened for the sound.

Now, a farmer on Point Glover, across the neck from White,
Had tied his cow that foggy morn, upon lush grass to bite;
So several times a minute, the ferry's whistle blew,
And as the captain listened, the echo came back "Moo!"

The captain turned the vessel, still steering by the sound,
And guided by that silly cow, the ferry ran aground;
So all you Northwest sailors, give listen to me now,
And when you cruise on Puget Sound, don't navigate by cow!

Cheers, S. in Seattle ^^

Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb
From: Deckman
Date: 04 Jan 01 - 10:03 PM

Don, the song you request is called "Notice To Mariners," written by John Dwyer. Linda Allen published it in her book "Washington Songs and Lore", published by Melior Publications, Spokane. I'll be sure to get it to you soon. And yes, you're very right. John dwyer is sorely missed. From one old antique singer to another. deckman ... funny though, I don't FEEL old, but I sure notice a lot of cub scouts following me to earn merit badges helping me at street corners!

Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb
From: Don Firth
Date: 04 Jan 01 - 07:15 PM

(I'm beginning to feel like an archeological dig site. Am I really getting that old?)

I've heard John Dwyer sing The Frozen Jogger, but I wasn't absolutely sure he wrote it. One I am sure he wrote (well, pretty sure) is the one about the Bremerton ferry running aground in the fog. Seems there was a romantic cow involved, as I recall. If some Vancouver, Victoria, Everett, Seattle, or Timbuctoo singer knows it, I would be powerfully grateful to get my hands on the words and tune.

Bob, I think between the two of us, we have at least forty-eleven miles of tape containing some pretty amazing stuff. And some amazing people. Tape does deteriorate (print-through, oxide flaking off, and general decay), so it's probably a pretty good idea if we see about getting this stuff digitized. CDs are easier to handle, anyway.

Let's talk about it sometime soon.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb
From: Deckman
Date: 04 Jan 01 - 05:49 PM

Great comments Don. Something about straight from the horses mouth comes to mind, but I won't mention it. Just to remind you, I have 5 boxes of my own reel to reels, 3 boxes of Pattis, and 3 boxes of Walt Robersons tapes. They are all in good condition, as is my Roberts machine. Also, I suspect that any number of Victoria and Vancouver mudcatters could jump in here and contribute the "Frozen Jogger." I suspect that John Dwyer did not write it, but he sure loved it.

Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb
From: Don Firth
Date: 04 Jan 01 - 04:58 PM

Oops! Sorry about that. Need to write something before unleasing the mouse. . . .

I think the television show that Bob (Deckman) Nelson is referring to (Howdy, Bob!) was "Ballads and Books" on KCTS Channel 9, a series of six live half-hour shows subsidized by the Seattle Public Library, that Patti McLaughlin and I did in early 1959.

This was in the days before videotape. One station in Seattle, KING-TV, had a videotape machine -- a $50,000 contraption as big as a desk, with tape reels the size of 35-mm movie film. Before the days of PBS and pledge breaks, Channel 9 couldn't afford one. This was why we had to do the shows live. Doing live television has a very strange effect on the bladder. During the half-hour before we went on the air, I had to make a half-dozen trips to the men's room. It was pure terror. The show went like clockwork, which was fortunate, because -- although people told me I seemed cool and self-possessed, I was practically comatose with fear. Patti, on the other hand, was cool as self-possessed . . . I think. But by the second show, we both felt like old pros.

In the fourth or fifth show, when we were featuring Pacific Northwest songs, we were really fortunate to get James Stevens and Ivar Haglund as guests. They sort of took over the show, but that was fine with us -- two excellent raconteurs trying to outdo each other made for an informative and entertaining half-hour. I got a chance to sing The Frozen Logger with Jim Stevens right there, which was a kick. I sang it the way I usually did -- with a Swedish accent. Stevens told me after the show that he thought it was hilarious, which made me feel pretty good.

He also said that the tune he used was a slight variation of the tune of "an obscene sea ballad." I'm pretty sure I have since recognized it. If I'm not mistaken, it's pretty darned close to the tune of Frigging in the Rigging.

As far as I know, Bob has the only existing audiotapes of the "Ballads and Books" shows, taped off the air. I think Sourdough has a mighty pow'ful suggestion there. Once the nickels stack up high enough, I plan to get my computer equipped with CD-RW drive and burn my old reel-to-reel tapes onto CDs. All those hoots and songfests and songs and singers . . . that stuff is a treasure trove!

Those were the days, my friend!

Don Firth

P. S. to Stewart: I'm pretty sure the parody, The Frozen Jogger came from the fertile but gloriously warped mind of the late and sorely missed John Dwyer. John Dwyer lived in Marysville, WA, about forty-five minutes north of Seattle, and died in late 1997. See Sing Out!, Vol. 42, No. 4, Last Chorus column, page 29. John was dedicated to learning and singing traditional songs and ballads, but his sense of humor was such that he couldn't resist writing parodies and other outrageous stuff. It's apparent Vancouver origin is easily explained by that fact that John's little red Geo Metro was constantly zipping up and down Interstate 5 to attend Song Circles in Vancouver, B. C. and Portland, Oregon, and all points between and around. I've heard John sing The Frozen Jogger, and it's pretty typical of the parodies he wrote. -- D. F.

Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb
From: Don Firth
Date: 04 Jan 01 - 04:55 PM

Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb
From: Sourdough
Date: 04 Jan 01 - 03:03 AM

Deckman: I don't know whether you are familiar with the phrase "dead media" but reel to reel video tape is one. When I first started in broadcasting, RtR was still in use and some of my first shows only exist in that format. I don't have any really easy way to play them. The equipment that is needed has long been relegated, in most cases, to the junk heap. There are however a few people in the major cities of the US who specialize in playback, transfer and re-recording of dead media. A local station would be able to help. I would suggest that you ask first at Channel 9 in Seattle where I think you said this program was originally taped. Because of the content and the people involved, they might be interested enough to want a playable copy for their own archive thereby stunning two birds with a single reel.

If you decide to go the Channel 9 route and would like some help, send me a personal message and let me see if I can find someone at CH 9 who can help in saving this little bit of musical history.

I hope you will try to save this before it is too late. Tape is not a good indefinite storage medium. Ideally, videotape should be stored in a cool (60 degree), dry (30-50% humidity), envronment, always on edge, not on its side. Otherwise it "sheds" the iron oxide that carries the image and curles on the edges making it unplayable.

If you really want to save it indefinitely without losing quality, the saving should be done digitally. That way it can be copiesd onto new media as long as digital transfer is available and that looks to be for a while!

Sourdough

Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb
From: Deckman
Date: 03 Jan 01 - 11:39 PM

I remember that one of the songs that Jim Stevens wrote, and Ivar Haglund sang, was "The Starving Stump Rancher." In the Northwest here, when settlers started clearing land for their cabins, they usually cut the trees down about head high. It took a lot of work, and several years, to pull the stumps from the ground with a team of horses, etc. As a result, many of the early settler homesteads looked like they were raising "stumps", instead of the gardens, and corrals, etc.CHEERS

Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb
From: GUEST,kendall
Date: 03 Jan 01 - 12:42 PM

I really like your "Boxers and Shorts" very clever!

Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb
From: Jacob B
Date: 03 Jan 01 - 12:38 PM

I've heard Faith Petric sing a version (at Fox Hollow, about 20 years ago) in which the customer replies to the waitress, telling her about the superhuman lover he once had and how he lost her. He then proposes to the waitress.

Jacob

Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb
From: Midchuck
Date: 03 Jan 01 - 12:26 PM

None of us have paid any money for any post on this thread!

Thanks, tho'

P.

Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb
From: BlueJay
Date: 03 Jan 01 - 12:08 PM

SINSULL- Right on- credit where it's due! Woodchucks' Revenge- Fill One Room, includes the only audio version of The Frozen Logger that I have. The entire CD is Great, especially this song, and the title track, and the hilarious "Boxers and Socks", (In my socks, in my socks, in my socks...with a gun. Sound familiar?) Thanks all, BlueJay

Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb
From: MAG (inactive)
Date: 03 Jan 01 - 11:22 AM

I first heard this song sung by Fred Holstein in chicago, but to my knowledge he never recorded it.

"40 year old waitress" I always thought was a softer version of the more common "over 40 waitress." I too like 6' 7" waitress mch better.

Living here in the PNW, with roots in Maine, I like this song a lot, even if the lyrics make it a guy song.

Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb
From: Deckman
Date: 03 Jan 01 - 09:26 AM

Somewhere in one of my many storage boxes, I had a reel to reel tape of a T.V. show we did on Channell 9 in 1959. This show featured Jim Stevens and Ivar Haglund trading stories of these songs that Jim wrote, with Ivar singing the songs. Jim died about 5 years after that show. I was pleased to give Ivar a copy of that recording about 20 years ago, he was very pleased to receive it. Someday I'll make a transcript of the tape, and hopefully make copies available to all. These songs are our heritage, and must be shared and preserved. CHEERS, Bob Nelson. my e-mail is [e-mail]

Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb
From: Midchuck
Date: 03 Jan 01 - 09:09 AM

When bigchuck sings it, I have a habit of interjecting "just a kid" or "jailbait" after "a 40 year old waitress."

Peter.

Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb
From: kendall
Date: 03 Jan 01 - 08:54 AM

In Maine, a Mackinaw is a heavy woolen coat. I first heard this one in the 40's by Buryl Ives. Been singing it ever since, but never recorded it.

Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb
From: GUEST,Noreen
Date: 03 Jan 01 - 08:42 AM

Thanks, Deckman- like a macintosh? )What an odd word that looks!)

Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb
From: Deckman
Date: 03 Jan 01 - 08:15 AM

A "mackinaw" is a raincoat.

Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb
From: Chris/Darwin
Date: 03 Jan 01 - 07:44 AM

Always sang "six foot seven inch waitress" since I got interested in folk music rather a long time ago.

Problem is - Australia metricated 30 years ago, and I haven't been able to think up a way of singing "two thousand and seven millimetres waitress", or perhaps "two hundred centimetre waitress", or variations thereof. With all its advantages, the metric system does not allow much for colloquial expressions - "missed by 1.62 kilometres", "give him 25 point 4 millimetres, and he takes nine hundred and fourteen", etc.

ChrisP

Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb
From:
Date: 03 Jan 01 - 07:29 AM

I always thought "40 year old waitress" was a bit weak compared to the rest of the song. I like "6'7" better, although I have never heard it sung that way.

Somewhere I have a tape of an Australian Folk singer singing it, but what with moving,......

Murray

Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb
From: GUEST,Noreen
Date: 03 Jan 01 - 06:33 AM

Oops- strange computer!

What I meant to say was:

Great song, what's a mackinaw? (And a 6'7" waitress seems more relevant than her age).

Noreen

Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb
From: GUEST,Noreen
Date: 03 Jan 01 - 06:29 AM

Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb
From: Deckman
Date: 03 Jan 01 - 02:39 AM

Jim Stevens did NOT write the phrase "fourty year old waitress." He wrote this line as,"a six foot seven waitress" The most accurate, both in words and spirit, version was recorded by Walt Robertson. I'll dig out his recording later, but it was recorded by Moses Asch of Folkways, and is available through the Smithsonian. This song is quite an anthem at song circles over here on the Pacific Northwest. CHEERS, Bob Nelson

Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb
From: GUEST,Fred Burns
Date: 03 Jan 01 - 12:32 AM

The lyrics and chords can be found in Sing Out's book, Rise Up Singing, and also with music in Alan Lomax's Folk Songs of North America.

Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb
From: Haruo
Date: 03 Jan 01 - 12:23 AM

Good point.

Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 03 Jan 01 - 12:22 AM

Have any of the other aging folkies noticed the change of perspective over the years when considering the phrase, "40 year old waitress"? I started singing this when I was about eighteen, and she sounded amusingly mature at the time.

Subject: RE: coffee stirred by thumb
From: SINSULL
Date: 03 Jan 01 - 12:09 AM

Midchuck is too modest. "Frozen Logger" is on one of the "Woodchucks' Revenge" CDs. Suggest you buy them all to be sure to get the right one.

Note to Woodchucks: I am expecting a commission on this!