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Lyr Add: Allan Tyne of Harrow / Valentine O'Hara

Related threads:
Chord Req: Alan Tyne o' Harrow (8)
LYR REQ: Tyne of Harrow (4)


Steve Gardham 31 Oct 20 - 07:02 PM
GUEST,jag 31 Oct 20 - 06:53 PM
Steve Gardham 31 Oct 20 - 03:53 PM
GUEST,jag 30 Oct 20 - 06:39 PM
GUEST,jag 30 Oct 20 - 06:34 PM
GUEST,jag 30 Oct 20 - 06:26 PM
GUEST,jag 30 Oct 20 - 06:07 PM
Steve Gardham 30 Oct 20 - 05:11 PM
Liberty Boy 30 Oct 20 - 04:43 PM
Steve Gardham 30 Oct 20 - 11:32 AM
MartinNail 30 Oct 20 - 07:23 AM
Brian Peters 28 Oct 20 - 02:10 PM
Steve Gardham 28 Oct 20 - 12:51 PM
GUEST,Wm 28 Oct 20 - 12:23 PM
Liberty Boy 28 Oct 20 - 12:01 PM
MartinNail 25 Oct 20 - 01:49 PM
Steve Gardham 17 Oct 20 - 04:30 PM
MartinNail 16 Oct 20 - 11:33 AM
Daniel Kelly 15 Oct 20 - 06:45 PM
Steve Gardham 15 Oct 20 - 03:24 PM
MartinNail 15 Oct 20 - 01:16 PM
MartinNail 05 Oct 20 - 11:49 AM
MartinNail 26 Sep 20 - 07:59 AM
GUEST,KilliePet 15 Jun 19 - 02:56 AM
Mick Pearce (MCP) 11 Mar 19 - 01:43 PM
Steve Gardham 11 Mar 19 - 01:17 PM
Mick Pearce (MCP) 11 Mar 19 - 12:42 PM
Steve Gardham 11 Mar 19 - 12:11 PM
Jim Carroll 11 Mar 19 - 10:48 AM
Daniel Kelly 11 Mar 19 - 01:25 AM
Steve Gardham 10 Mar 19 - 10:20 AM
Daniel Kelly 10 Mar 19 - 08:12 AM
Mick Pearce (MCP) 10 Mar 19 - 06:32 AM
Daniel Kelly 09 Mar 19 - 09:41 PM
Mick Pearce (MCP) 09 Mar 19 - 05:51 PM
Steve Gardham 09 Mar 19 - 03:38 PM
Mick Pearce (MCP) 09 Mar 19 - 03:03 PM
Jim Carroll 09 Mar 19 - 02:59 PM
Steve Gardham 09 Mar 19 - 02:09 PM
Jim Carroll 09 Mar 19 - 06:35 AM
Daniel Kelly 09 Mar 19 - 04:29 AM
GUEST 23 Feb 15 - 10:52 PM
MartinRyan 20 Oct 14 - 02:24 PM
GUEST,jhan 19 Feb 11 - 12:11 AM
Artful Codger 11 May 10 - 03:01 AM
GUEST,schlimmerkerl 10 May 10 - 03:16 PM
MartinRyan 17 Mar 10 - 05:25 PM
The Borchester Echo 17 Mar 10 - 10:26 AM
Mr Happy 17 Mar 10 - 10:00 AM
Mr Happy 17 Mar 10 - 09:58 AM
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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Allan Tyne of Harrow / Valentine O'Hara
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 31 Oct 20 - 07:02 PM

Which again points to the ballad being fictional or exaggeration.
No O'Hara highwayman features in the Newgate Calendar during the 18th century.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Allan Tyne of Harrow / Valentine O'Hara
From: GUEST,jag
Date: 31 Oct 20 - 06:53 PM

It was Allan Tyne I had roughly in my head - he didn't specifiy what he took from the revenue collector.

£500 twice is a bit repetetitive, could that be a sign of degradation, or something that a later singer or editor might tidy up?

I guess £500 in gold must have been a credible amount for a toff to have in their saddlebag when the song was written. Two reams of £50 notes would make a bulge in a pocket these days.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Allan Tyne of Harrow / Valentine O'Hara
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 31 Oct 20 - 03:53 PM

No, it was both of them, jag. The lord in verses 7 & 8 and the revenue collector in verse 11.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Allan Tyne of Harrow / Valentine O'Hara
From: GUEST,jag
Date: 30 Oct 20 - 06:39 PM

Sigh, OK, I was going from memory and it was the Lord not the revenue collector.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Allan Tyne of Harrow / Valentine O'Hara
From: GUEST,jag
Date: 30 Oct 20 - 06:34 PM

Hmm, that converter can't be right - £10 a day in 1760?

However, even at that rate the hire of a heavy with sword and pistols would make sense.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Allan Tyne of Harrow / Valentine O'Hara
From: GUEST,jag
Date: 30 Oct 20 - 06:26 PM

What intrigues me is that a revenue collector with that amount of money would, in the days of highwaymen, not have had an effective armed guard.

According to https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/currency-converter/ in 1760 £500 had the purchasing power of £51,000 or (72 horses or 5000 days wages for a skilled workmen). About half that in 1810.

If the value was credible at the time of the song does it help date the song?


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Allan Tyne of Harrow / Valentine O'Hara
From: GUEST,jag
Date: 30 Oct 20 - 06:07 PM

100 guineas would weigh a couple of pounds and be a fist-sized bag.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Allan Tyne of Harrow / Valentine O'Hara
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 30 Oct 20 - 05:11 PM

That's great, LB. I've PMd you my email address. I'm sure there are other researchers in the UK who would be interested, such as Steve Roud. At the same time there are Irish printings in the BL that you might find useful, and I have copies of many of these and can send them. Goggin chapbooks in particular spring to mind.

I'm also very interested in earlier Irish versions of ballads that came over here and were widely printed such as Molly Bawn, Fanny Blair, Lakes of Coolfin, Strands of Magilligan....


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Allan Tyne of Harrow / Valentine O'Hara
From: Liberty Boy
Date: 30 Oct 20 - 04:43 PM

Steve, I have readers card for the RIA. and can go in there at any time when this Covid-19 nonsense is over. I've had a bit of a trawl through some of their stuff. Lots of interesting stuff there including a nice version of 'Father Murphy'. We're currently confined to 5km from home so no chance until December.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Allan Tyne of Harrow / Valentine O'Hara
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 30 Oct 20 - 11:32 AM

The 'rhino' business intrigues me. He robs a revenue collector carrying £500. What form would this have been in? Bank notes? Mixed coinage? £500 of mixed coinage, he would have needed a handcart, n'est pas? Val then returns 100 guineas to his lady. Even that's quite a big bag. I doubt he had the time to stop and count them so were there 5 bags with 100 guineas in each?

I know, it doesn't pay to think too deeply about detail in a ballad, especially one which is likely to be fictional and the work of a hack.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Allan Tyne of Harrow / Valentine O'Hara
From: MartinNail
Date: 30 Oct 20 - 07:23 AM

'Smiling rhino' is indeed a curious phrase. 'Shining rhino' might make more sense but both the 1802 Newry text and an undated chapbook printed in Dublin (now in the National Library of Scotland) definitely have 'Smiling'.

'Rhino' is of course a slang term for money, dating back to the seventeenth century. For a discussion on its etymology there is an excellent article on the World Wide Words site:
Rhino. This also mentions the phrase 'ready rhino' (which is a bit of a tautology).


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Allan Tyne of Harrow / Valentine O'Hara
From: Brian Peters
Date: 28 Oct 20 - 02:10 PM

Martin wrote:
I'm not sure why he changed 'great Hector ne’er was bolder' to 'no sergeant-at-arms was bolder'

Presumably to make it sound less antiquarian and poetic, while conveying a more vernacular though still suitably archaic flavour. Not an unknown behaviour for either Ewan or Bert!


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Allan Tyne of Harrow / Valentine O'Hara
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 28 Oct 20 - 12:51 PM

Hi LB,
Martin sent me a copy of this and some of the others. BUT!

Does your posting mean that you have reasonable access to the RIA collections? Looking at their online catalogues there could be other useful pieces in there. I'm compiling a list of other possible titles for when someone can get in there and make copies. It's highly unlikely though that I will ever get there now though Martin is thinking of having a visit when things allow. I used to visit Dublin regularly at one time but wasn't aware of this collection and spent all of my time in ITMA copying their copies.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Allan Tyne of Harrow / Valentine O'Hara
From: GUEST,Wm
Date: 28 Oct 20 - 12:23 PM

Smiling Rhino?!


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Allan Tyne of Harrow / Valentine O'Hara
From: Liberty Boy
Date: 28 Oct 20 - 12:01 PM

Adventures of Valentine O'Hara
the
Flying Highway-man

I am a daring highwayman, my name is Val O'Hara.
I come of decent honest friends near to the Hill of Tara.
For getting a fair maid with child, to England I sailed over.
Leaving my parents almost wild, whilst I became a rover.

To London City I did go, where I became a soldier,
Resolved to fight against Briton's foe, great Hector ne’er was bolder.
I was sent to a foreign coast where cannons loudly rattle.
Believe me that I do not boast, I well behaved in battle.

In many battles I have been Thro’ Holland and French Flanders.
I always fought with courage keen, led on by bold commanders.
Brave and undaunted I behaved, for I being valiant hearted
But thro’ base usage I received, alas I soon deserted.

Then to old England I did sail, as fast as wind could drive me,
Resolved that of my liberty no man could e're deprive me,
When I arrived on England’s shore, and found my name gazetted
At which my heart was grieved sore, and there at was much fretted

How to behave I did not know, being void of friends and money
Desertion caused it to be so, and brought these troubles on me
In open fields I lurked night, lest I should be suspected
And dare not travel in daylight, for fear of being detected

I being resolute and bold, and likewise able-bodied,
To stand the road I then resolved, with pistols heavy loaded.
To rob upon the King’s highway, was my determination
Then to the road without delay, nor further hesitation

The very first I e’er did rob, was a great lord of honour
That nobleman I did assault, all in a robust manner
Said I ‘My Lord I demand your coin, make no delay but give it
If you refuse ’tis my design, by powder and ball to have it.

I cocked my pistol to his breast, which caused him for to shiver
Five hundred Guineas as I protest, to me he did deliver
His gold repeating watch likewise, to me he did surrender
I thought it was a gallant prize, when he his gold did tender

Then, with part of that money, I procured a famous gelding,
That o’er a five-bar gate could fly, I bought of a Mr. Shelding.
When mounted on my flying steed, I looked right bold and daring
Then to the road I went with speed, for, I no man was fearing

One night I robbed Lord Anglesey, not far from Covent Garden
And in three hours after that, I kopt at Attorney Harden
Balls and plays, road, street and lane, I robbed Lords Dukes and Earls
Myself in grandeur to maintain, and to support my girls

I never yet did stop a man, but those in high character
At Limehouse church one night, I robbed a revenue collector
From him I took five hundred pound, in Smiling Rhino ready
One hundred guineas of that prize, I did return his lady

When e’er I met distressed poor, when poverty did grieve them
I always found myself inclined, with money to relieve them
I laid upon the rich and great, to rob the poor I scorn
But that won’t prevent my fate, this day at old Tyburn

Now here in Newgate close confined, and by the laws convicted.
To Tyburn tree I am destined, and great I’m much afflicted.
Farewell my country and my friends, and the ancient Hill of Tara!
Kind providence may rest the soul of Valentine O'Hara.
Transcribed from the chapbook in the Royal Irish Academy, in Dawson St. in January of this year. Dated Newry 1802


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Allan Tyne of Harrow / Valentine O'Hara
From: MartinNail
Date: 25 Oct 20 - 01:49 PM

As Jim Carroll said earlier in this thread, the version of Valentine O'Hara / Alan Tyne o' Harrow that everybody (in both Britain and Ireland) sings these days is derived from Ewan MacColl's. If you look at the texts it's clear that he adapted it from Allan Tine o' Harrow which was printed in at least six different Scottish chapbooks. He made various alterations, most notably cutting it down from twelve stanzas to eight. He also improved the scansion in places to make it more singable. I'm not sure why he changed 'great Hector ne’er was bolder' to 'no sergeant-at-arms was bolder' which doesn't occur in any of the editions of the chapbook that I've seen.

But does anyone know where MacColl found the text he based it on? Would he have owned a copy? Or found it in a library? If so which? Can Jim or any other former member of the Critics Group throw any light?


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Allan Tyne of Harrow / Valentine O'Hara
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 17 Oct 20 - 04:30 PM

I think lists of Newgate executions are online somewhere so the name O'Hara could perhaps be traced there. And of course as most of these highwaymen of the 17th/18th centuries operated near London there is every chance the ballads were written in London.

If O'Hara was operating in Ireland and the ballad was written there why bother with the description 'Irish'? I doubt very much if there were any highwaymen operating in Ireland who were of other nationalities.

Also I don't think too much weight should be put on the use of the word 'flying'. Presumably they were just fast movers like Swift Nick and The Flying Scotsman/Flying Dutchman.

I must fly!


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Allan Tyne of Harrow / Valentine O'Hara
From: MartinNail
Date: 16 Oct 20 - 11:33 AM

Daniel

Strictly speaking we haven't proved anything about the origins of the ballad. But we have got to a point where we can say that the earliest known versions of ballad are Irish. As I said earlier, your researches have pretty much convinced me that O'Hara is a fictional character.

But if it was written in Ireland at the turn of the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries (some time after the heyday of highwaymen), it was obviously composed by someone familiar with the genre of highwayman ballads. The Newry chapbook gives the ballad the title "Adventures of Valentine O’Hara, the flying Irish highwayman" which suggests to me that the author (or printer) knew the ballad "The flying highwayman" (a version of "Young Morgan"). Unfortunately I don't think that there are any dated copies of this title but "Young Morgan's garland" was published in 1775 according to the British Library and so predates Valentine.

Martin


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Allan Tyne of Harrow / Valentine O'Hara
From: Daniel Kelly
Date: 15 Oct 20 - 06:45 PM

Hi Martin,

Will add your confirmation of the 1802 version text to my blog post.

I thought I had this thread traced, but your posts didn't come up on my login.

The question left hanging then is if Valentine was the original subject of the ballad, was he a real person?

Cheers,

Daniel,


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Allan Tyne of Harrow / Valentine O'Hara
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 15 Oct 20 - 03:24 PM

All excellent stuff. Keep it coming, and well done to all.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Allan Tyne of Harrow / Valentine O'Hara
From: MartinNail
Date: 15 Oct 20 - 01:16 PM

I've now managed to obtain a digital copy of the Newry chapbook from the Royal Irish Academy. It is definitely the same ballad and so at 1802 is the earliest dated version of it.

As I mentioned before, there is a copy of a Dublin-printed chapbook in the National Library of Scotland (Lauriston Castle Collection LC 2909:7). This is undated but the NLS dates it to [1800?] -- I'm not sure on what basis, so it could be earlier or later than the Newry version. The two texts have basically the same thirteen stanzas and are identical in places but diverge in others; I can't see anything in the divergences to make me conculde which is earlier.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Allan Tyne of Harrow / Valentine O'Hara
From: MartinNail
Date: 05 Oct 20 - 11:49 AM

I emailed Steve Roud and he is consolidating the numbers 1553 and 2403 at 1553. It'll be in the next update.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Allan Tyne of Harrow / Valentine O'Hara
From: MartinNail
Date: 26 Sep 20 - 07:59 AM

I’ve only just caught up with this thread after some time, so apologies for not commenting sooner. I must say that Daniel Kelly has made a number of really important observations about Valentine O'Hara / Allan Tine of Harrow / Daring highwayman in his posts here and in his blog.

I’d like to highlight the following:

•        He identifies that the Daring highwayman (Roud 1553) is the same song as Valentine O'Hara / Allan Tine of Harrow (Roud 2403). I don’t think this has been mentioned here previously. I have passed this on to Steve Roud.

•        He has pretty conclusively (in my view) demonstrated that the story is not about a real person.

•        He has found a reference to an early Irish chapbook. This, together with the Dublin chapbook in the National Library of Scotland, seems to me to point to an Irish origin for the ballad and gives Valentine precedence over Allan Tine – the Irish chapbooks are from 1800/1815 whereas the Scottish ones are from the 1820s.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Allan Tyne of Harrow / Valentine O'Hara
From: GUEST,KilliePet
Date: 15 Jun 19 - 02:56 AM

A very interesting read! Great to learn more after having listened so many times to this version by Nancy Kerr and James Fagan.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Allan Tyne of Harrow / Valentine O'Hara
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 11 Mar 19 - 01:43 PM

Nah! Not even close!

Mick


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Allan Tyne of Harrow / Valentine O'Hara
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 11 Mar 19 - 01:17 PM

On the ball as eve, Mick. I think you've inherited Malcolm's spot.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Allan Tyne of Harrow / Valentine O'Hara
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 11 Mar 19 - 12:42 PM

For The Flying Highwayman and Young Morgan, see this article at Mustrad - Young Morgan

Mick


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Allan Tyne of Harrow / Valentine O'Hara
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 11 Mar 19 - 12:11 PM

yes, well done, Daniel, for pulling this together.

Just a few points which you might find helpful.

Personal names/proper nouns, as you can see are notoriously fickle in ballad reproduction, oral tradition and print and manuscript. Names can be changed deliberately as well as by accident, for all sorts of reasons.
You rightly say Allan Tyne is very likely a mondegreen, but there are cases, fewer undoubtedly, where someone has taken an odd sounding name and altered it to a name more plausible.

You mention the Flying Highwayman. This is very likely the broadside ballad 'Young Morgan' which on some sheets uses that title. Unfortunately though I've got lots of copies I don't think any of them are on the Bodleian site for you to look at. There is a version in Holloway and Black Vol 1 at p103.

Also the 8 page publications printed on a single sheet are known as chapbooks (cheap books sold by chapmen on the streets and in rural areas).

There are plenty of Irish highwaymen ballads, mostly their exploits take place in England (richer pickings) Willie Brennan, Wild and Wicked Youth, Whiskey in the Jar, and others.

Keep up the good work.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Allan Tyne of Harrow / Valentine O'Hara
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 Mar 19 - 10:48 AM

Tremendous piece of work Daniel - apart from the name, the chapbook texts are virtually the same as Ewan's - which possibly was his own alteration
The air he used for it was an adaptation of 'The Homes of Donegal' - he had a habit of using Irish tunes on occasion (listen to the Irish version of William Taylor and you'll find where he got his Tunnel Tigers air
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Allan Tyne of Harrow / Valentine O'Hara
From: Daniel Kelly
Date: 11 Mar 19 - 01:25 AM

I spent a bit of time researching deeper into this, results here , keen to hear thoughts on my conclusion.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Allan Tyne of Harrow / Valentine O'Hara
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 10 Mar 19 - 10:20 AM

Although the English printed version 'Daring Highwayman' mentions plenty of personal names it doesn't give the name of the highwayman himself. The one printed by Pitts is after 1819. The first stanza seems to contradict itself as to where he is from.

I am a daring highwayman likewise a gallant sailor
From London town I surely came since I became a rover,
For a maid who proved with child for England I sailed over,
I left my parents almost wild since I became a rover.

The gelding is bought of Jem Sheldon which sounds a more plausible name than those in some versions (Shelding). His sweeting is Polly. He lies in Newgate at the end and all of his exploits, once returned from abroad, take place in London.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Allan Tyne of Harrow / Valentine O'Hara
From: Daniel Kelly
Date: 10 Mar 19 - 08:12 AM

The only O'Hara hung at Tyburn prior to 1802 was a Patrick O'Hara listed here, executed in November 1763, however, the transcript of his trial here does not sound like a daring highwayman with a long career, just a petty thief sailor in the wrong place at the wrong time.

There are plenty of 'Valentines' with other last names, but if you are going to make the effort of writing a song about someone 'famous' you would think the getting the correct last name would be critical. Maybe this highwayman wasn't hung at Tyburn, but then why put it in the song?

The tradition seems to be that these songs were often written around the time of an execution/trial to romanticise the life of the accused/executed (and for song sellers to make a few quid off the public interest).

I had a lot of fun doing this setting of the song.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Allan Tyne of Harrow / Valentine O'Hara
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 10 Mar 19 - 06:32 AM

That looks like the earliest dated reference Daniel. The earliest reference in the Roud index is for Lyle: Chapbooks with Irish Imprints (IFMS 2 1974-1976) No.94 giving Dublin, 1814 as the date.

Mick


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Allan Tyne of Harrow / Valentine O'Hara
From: Daniel Kelly
Date: 09 Mar 19 - 09:41 PM

I was almost ready to concede the English ownership of this ballad, but then found a reference in the Ulster Journal of Archeology, showing that 'Adventures of Valentine O'Hara' was part of a song book published in 1802, link
here. Any advances on 1802?


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Allan Tyne of Harrow / Valentine O'Hara
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 09 Mar 19 - 05:51 PM

I knew they were there - I'd downloaded them earlier today myself! (after this thread came up of course).

Mick


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Allan Tyne of Harrow / Valentine O'Hara
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 09 Mar 19 - 03:38 PM

Brilliant as always, Mick. I should really investigate Archive when I've got a bit more time. I haven't got that copy of Banks of Roses either.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Allan Tyne of Harrow / Valentine O'Hara
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 09 Mar 19 - 03:03 PM

Steve

There's a Macnie book at archive: Allan Tine O' Harrow (to which are added, Highland laddie, Bonnie Wood of Craigie lea

There's also another 1925 Stirling chapbook: Allan Tine o’ Harrow (to which are added, Jack in his element; The beds of roses)


Are these what you're looking for?

Mick


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Allan Tyne of Harrow / Valentine O'Hara
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Mar 19 - 02:59 PM

Think John Moulden might have a copy
Jim


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Allan Tyne of Harrow / Valentine O'Hara
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 09 Mar 19 - 02:09 PM

Anyone got a copy of the Allan Tine broadside please? It's obviously a Scottish adaptation of the 'Valentine' version which others have suggested. My records tell me there are 2 versions at Harvard, one printed by MacNee of Stirling and the other in Falkirk, the latter also for sale in a Jarndyce of London catalogue, c1835. In English oral tradition it's known as The Jolly Highwayman (Roud 1553).


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Allan Tyne of Harrow / Valentine O'Hara
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Mar 19 - 06:35 AM

I think the name was Ballentine O'Hara, and I'm pretty sure he existed
I think teh problem here is the assumption that the song was Irish when only a small fragment of any Irish version exists in W.P.Joyce's collection
MacColl's version was the first to be issued on an album and it with a few adaptations by Frank Harte is the one popularly sung
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Allan Tyne of Harrow / Valentine O'Hara
From: Daniel Kelly
Date: 09 Mar 19 - 04:29 AM

It seems that before there was a Valentine O'Hara, or indeed an Alan Tyne of Yarra(ow), the song was published as 'The Daring Highwayman' in at least two broadsides, one around 1828/1829.

You would think that if there was a famous highwayman of either name, there would be some newspaper or court records.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Allan Tyne of Harrow / Valentine O'Hara
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Feb 15 - 10:52 PM

I first heard this sung by an Aussie, and since there is a town in NSW called Yarrow, it would be possible for a man to be born in Yarrow, and "sail over" to England to escape a scandal. What that says for the order or precedence I don't know.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Allan Tyne of Harrow / Valentine O'Hara
From: MartinRyan
Date: 20 Oct 14 - 02:24 PM

Recording of Niamh Parsons singing this now at The Góilín Song Project:

Click here

Regards


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Allan Tyne of Harrow / Valentine O'Ha
From: GUEST,jhan
Date: 19 Feb 11 - 12:11 AM

Since banks, and checks, and credit cards had not come into being at the time, and travelers had to carry on their persons the funds necessary for their expenses on their journeys, 'ready' gold, meaning gold immediately at hand, would be the correct wording.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Allan Tyne of Harrow / Valentine O'Hara
From: Artful Codger
Date: 11 May 10 - 03:01 AM

Interesting hypothesis, but likely hard to prove. All the "Valentine O'Harra" broadsides I've seen say "Three hundred guineas I protest...", while the Allan Tyne versions seem to agree on "Five hundred pounds in ready gold..."


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Allan Tyne of Harrow / Valentine O'Hara
From: GUEST,schlimmerkerl
Date: 10 May 10 - 03:16 PM

I'll bet the gold in the fifth verse is "ruddy"-- very often an archaic description of the metal-- and not "ready".


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Allan Tyne of Harrow / Valentine O'Hara
From: MartinRyan
Date: 17 Mar 10 - 05:25 PM

Artful Codger

For Frank, frankly.... I heard him sing it, many's the time.

Regards


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Allan Tyne of Harrow / Valentine O'Hara
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 17 Mar 10 - 10:26 AM

classic Mondegreen

Like Shores Of Erin for Shoals Of Herring?

Peter Bellamy did a very fine Allan, Tyne Of Harrow.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Allan Tyne of Harrow / Valentine O'Hara
From: Mr Happy
Date: 17 Mar 10 - 10:00 AM

.........aka 'Dewey Den of Yarrow'!


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Allan Tyne of Harrow / Valentine O'Hara
From: Mr Happy
Date: 17 Mar 10 - 09:58 AM

Sounds like a classic Mondegreen!!


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Mudcat time: 31 October 7:23 PM EDT

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