John Dwyer - Songs & Stories -Guitar List photos

Subject: RE: John Dwyer - Songs&Stories
From: Don Firth
Date: 06 Jan 01 - 07:16 PM

Stewart,

Once again, many thanks!

I've e-mailed Sing Out! to ask them about the copyright situation on the article about John. As soon as I get the okay from them (assuming I do), I'll post it the article.

I'll e-mail you or send you a PM shortly.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: John Dwyer - Songs&Stories
From: Stewart
Date: 06 Jan 01 - 06:07 PM

Don, here's the tune to John Dwyers song "San Juan Pig" CLICK TO PLAY. Thanks to NoteworthyComposer it's pretty easy to set up. And thanks for the background info on the Pig War and your family history, that was very interesting.

S. in Seattle ^^

Subject: RE: John Dwyer - Songs&Stories
From: Don Firth
Date: 06 Jan 01 - 04:38 PM

Outrageous! Howdy, Mark. I remember, you and I rode up to San Juan Island together (in 1985 I think it was -- thanks for the lift, by the way) for the songfest at English Camp. And well do I remember Maggie in her park ranger's uniform and Smoky Bear hat, who, I think, set the whole thing up. Marvelous afternoon.

I know this is a bit of "thread creep" which I don't want to do, particularly on this thread, but I just have to stick this in: I have a family connection with the Pig War and all that. When the British were trying to establish a presence on the San Juan Islands (they claimed everything down to the Columbia River, while the Americans were yelling "Fifty-four-forty or fight!") they asked the Hudson's Bay Company in to see if they could use the islands somehow. In 1858, my great-grandfather, Robert Firth, who worked for the Hudson's Bay Company, was appointed by Governor Douglas in Fort Victoria to head the Belle-Vue Ranch at the south end of San Juan Island with the idea of running about 6000 head of sheep on the island. By the time the thing finally got settled by Kaiser Wilhelm and the San Juans stayed on the American side, my great-grandfather had settled in, was raising a family, and decided to stay. My grandfather (another Robert Firth) and my father (also Robert Firth) were both born in Friday Harbor (my great-grandfather came originally from the Orkney Isles, as did many Hudson's Bay Company employees, and I understand that, even now, every third male in the Orkneys is named "Robert Firth"). I learned some of this from Maggie, some from another park ranger on a later trip to the San Juans, and some from a couple of books on San Juan history.

John's song is factually right on! That's what happened -- names, events, everything! I'm amazed at the accuracy, but since it was written by John, I'm not at all surprised.

Incidentally, the Captain Pickett, who was in command of American Camp on the island, resigned his commission after a year at American Camp, went home, and joined the Confederate Army. This is the same George Pickett who led the heroic but ill-fated "Pickett's Charge" at the battle of Gettysburg.

By the way, Stewart, you wouldn't happen to have the tune for this, would you?

Don Firth

Subject: Lyr Add: THE SAN JUAN PIG (John Dwyer) ^^
From: Stewart
Date: 06 Jan 01 - 12:23 PM

Mark, your comment about singing with John on San Juan Island and his telling you about the Pig War prompts me to post his song which tells the story. An 1846 agreement extended the boundary between the U.S. and Canada along the 49th parallel to the west coast and from there to the "middle of the channel" through the islands southeast of Vancouver Island. A war between the U. S. and England almost erupted in 1859, triggered by the killing of a pig and disagreement as just where the "channel" went — whether the San Juan Islands were British or American.

SAN JUAN PIG — John Dwyer, 1978

Let me tell you of a story of a San Juan pig.
It wasn't worth much cause it wasn't very big,
But it rooted in a garden and it nearly caused a fray,
Between the King of England and the U. S. A.

Now the Pig it was Canadian, the settler was a Yank
What the pig did to his garden was more than just a prank,
For it dug up his potatoes and it tore down his fence,
Since it wasn't just the first time Cutler's anger was immense.

When he saw the pig a-rootin', Lyman Cutter, he got sore.
He grabbed up his musket, for the pig he tore.
The pig saw him comin' and headed for the woods,
 But he stopped at the edge, and Cutler shot him good.

Then Cutler felt regretful and went down to Hudson's Bay,
And told the clerk in charge of the porker he would pay.
Griffin said, "One hundred dollars, he's a prize breeding boar."
Cutler told him "I'll pay three, and not a penny more."

Then up stepped A. G. Dallas, and said, "See here, my man,
You're already trespassing upon Canadian land.
You know it's British country from Rosario to the west,"
"Not so," said Lyman Cutler, "East of Haro is U. S."

Well, the settlers they backed Cutler with their muskets in their hands.
The British thought it wiser not to make a stand.
The stars and stripes were hoisted to celebrate the day,
And were seen by General Hamey a-sail in' on the bay.

The general came ashore and he listened to their tale.
He was a man of action and to help he did not fail.
To Fort Bellingham he sent 'ere he sailed away again,
And down came Captain Pickett with a company of men.

Then up sailed the British with war ships one, two, three,
Which made a few too many for Pickett's company.
They had to find a way to even up the score,
So he sent to Fort Steilacoom and got five hundred more.

 Well they argued in the Senate, and in the House of Lords,
And they didn't make much progress but they used a lot of words.
So they asked the German Emperor the boundary to define,
And tell those treaty makers where to draw the line.

 Now the Kaiser gave his answer in 1872,
And said that Haro Strait was where the line went through.
Well they called it a war, but it wasn't very big
And the only one got killed was a little British pig.

Cheers, S. in Seattle^^

Subject: RE: John Dwyer - Songs&Stories
From: StillyRiverSage (inactive)
Date: 06 Jan 01 - 11:51 AM

I've spoken to Bob Nelson, Jean Smith, Bruce Baker and a number of others, as well as people in music and special collections at several university libraries about Dad's collection and the collections of folk singers past and present. It looks like there is a real need for some serious funding to pull this together, preserve it, and make it available to researchers and singers. We're talking about folk singers here, so there's no MONEY in it, but there is a need.

I haven't planned my work toward a Ph.D. ("piling it higher and deeper," as Dad called it, but he was very pleased when I told him I wanted to do this) to collect music, but we do accumulate certain skills along the way as academics: research, writing grants, and patience in general seem to be what are needed. Having a core knowledge of the people and the songs helps. One of these days I'll stop paying good money to the storage locker people and I'll be able to look at what all I have in the boxes and boxes of stuff I packed of Dad's. Hopefully taking stuff out of storage will conincide with getting out of Texas (yeah!) and getting back into the squishy Northwest. Don't start pulling all of those boxes out of your own basements and attics yet, but I'll start doing some research on funding a project like this.

Maggie

P.S. Mark--good to hear from you again! I always figured when you folks left the island that day (you'd been at English Camp in San Juan Island National Historical Park) you were singing Emma Rounds' words and Dad's tune in "The Ballad of the Merry Ferry."

Subject: RE: John Dwyer - Songs&Stories
From: Deckman
Date: 06 Jan 01 - 11:29 AM

One of the many vivid memories I have of John was the passion with which he sang "The Good Boy."

"I have led a good life, full of peace and quiet, I shall have an old age, full of rum and riot, I have been a good boy, wed to peace and study, I shall have an old age, ribald, course and bloody.

I have never cut throats, even when I yearned to, Never sung dirty songs, that my fancy turned to, I have been a nice boy and done what was expected, I shall be an old bum, loved but unrespected."

Can't you just see that grin and the twinkle in his eye!

CHEERS, Bob Nelson (deckman)

Subject: RE: John Dwyer - Songs&Stories
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 06 Jan 01 - 01:43 AM

In a previous life before I moved to Hawaii (1985-90)I was a faithful member of the Seattle Song Circle, and of course that means I remember John very well. I particularly remember him belting out "It's a Long Way From Amphioxus", which was always a favorite of mine, as I was both a parodist and a biology major.

One day John arranged for a few of us Seattle songsters to perform, as it were, at the San Juan Islands National Park (that's probably not the real name of the park, but that's ginkgo deficiency for you....something John never seemed to suffer from), which was either at English Camp or American Camp on San Juan Island. A fine time it was, educational (I learned more about the Pig War than I ever wanted to know), musical, and fun. As I recall, we were there because Maggie, who just checked in above, was a park ranger there that summer.

I also remember a delightful day at John's house on the water in Marysville, sharing music with Linda Allen, who was just starting to collect what became "Washington Songs and Lore," including John's "Notice to Mariners", with the immortal last line, "Don't navigate by cow!"

Thanks for starting this thread, Stewart. I hope Mary G. and other past and present Seattle Song Circlers will check in.

Aloha,
Mark

Subject: RE: John Dwyer - Songs&Stories
From: SandyBob
Date: 06 Jan 01 - 12:54 AM

I liked John because he sang bawdy songs well and other politically out-of-favor songs and didn't care a fig about what others thought about it...he gave a lot of us permission to do the same. I also found him to be a gracious man. He heard a song I wrote sung at at a camp somewhere and went out of his way to look me up and tell me he liked it. Sing on where ever you are, John.

Sandy Bob

Subject: RE: John Dwyer - Songs&Stories
From: GUEST,Maggie Dwyer
Date: 05 Jan 01 - 10:58 PM

Don and Bob,

Thanks for the heads up about this thread. Even after three-plus years, I often find myself with an outrageous pun on my hands, wishing I had Dad to send it to. As it happens, I do have many recordings of his on my hands, though they are in storage right now. I'd love to do something with them both academically and Song-Circle-wise. One of these days I'll be able to record some of his tapes onto CDs. And I do intend to make both the recordings and his books available to those interested in collecting folksongs.

As an adult I find I still have a child's response to some of the songs he sang during my childhood. Last year someone made a remark about the Ezra Pound parody "Winter is a Coomin In" (I may have misspelled this) and I made a remark about "egg you hath my ham" making no sense. But then, I learned that song when I was in my Dr. Suess days. Dad explained a lot of his songs to us, but that one got past me. A Shakespearean scholar friend nearly fell out of his chair laughing, then explained it was "ague hath my ham," an ENTIRELY different meaning. Many of Dad's songs were sung when we were supposedly out of earshot, but all it took was one hearing of some of them and we had them down. And usually sang them at the top of our lungs in the back yard as we played on the swingset. All of those hoots, when you were singing in the living room downstairs, we were sitting upstairs at the heater duct listening. ;-)

Don Firth wrote a wonderful article about Dad that appeared in _Sing Out!_ some months after his death. I work (not surprisingly) in a university library, and have been reading a fair amount about copyright issues. I can't say whether _Sing Out_ is copyrighted, but I would be willing to guess that Don didn't give away all rights to it when he submitted it. As the author it is his to give or sell, and I doubt he would encounter difficulties if he ran it here. And it might bring a few more readers to _Sing Out!_.

My two cents-- Maggie

Subject: RE: John Dwyer - Songs&Stories
From: Don Firth
Date: 05 Jan 01 - 09:00 PM

Back in the late Seventies, shortly after the Seattle Song Circle got started, we were having a small (not song circle) party and songfest at Phoebe Smith's house. About a dozen people were there, including John Dwyer. Mary Wilson arrived late, and as she was taking off her coat, the following conversation took place:

Mary Wilson: "I had trouble finding this place. I wandered around so long I was beginning to feel like Sacajawea."

John Dwyer: "You were beginning to feel like a sack of what?"

Don Firth

Subject: RE: John Dwyer - Songs&Stories
From: Deckman
Date: 05 Jan 01 - 07:56 PM

... by the way, I remember that Flip Breskin, of Bellingham was there at that concert! Where are you Flip? This is your chance to tell stories about John, or maybe get even! CHEERS, Bob Nelson

Subject: RE: John Dwyer - Songs&Stories
From: Deckman
Date: 05 Jan 01 - 07:15 PM

Don, Was that word antidotes, or antic dotes? John Dwyer was famous for actions that produced both. Do you remember the famous 'sexist' wars he would start at sing-alongs? He and I sang a concert at Apple Jam in Chehalis, Wa, about 100 years ago. With no pryer warning on his part, and to goad Linda Allen, he started singing sexist war songs. At that point, I had to throw the planned program out the window and decide if I should join the new theme, referee, or call the cops. I don't remember exactly what I did, but I do know that I returned home with my manhood intact! CHEERS, Bob

Subject: RE: John Dwyer - Songs&Stories
From: Don Firth
Date: 05 Jan 01 - 06:43 PM

I don't really know much about copyrights and such. Although I aspire to be a published writer (I am currently working on a memoir -- gad, that sounds pretentious -- about my bizarre adventures as a folksinger in and around the Pacific Northwest during the Fifties and Sixties, but oozing on to more recent things, like how the idea of the Seattle Song Circle got cooked up after a workshop at the 1977 Northwest Folklife Festival), my only published work so far is (sadly) the aforementioned article about John Dwyer in the Sing Out! Last Chorus column. If I own the article -- and I will probably have to check with Sing Out! about this -- I would be more than happy to post it here for those who don't have access to the magazine, provided anybody wants to read it. It runs about 700 words.

Although he never made any recordings and he didn't go on concert tours and such, from 1960 on, John Dwyer was a major figure in folk music in the Pacific Northwest and British Columbia. He was a pretty colorful guy in his own way, and lots of people knew him. There ought to be a lot of memories and anecdotes out there.

Don Firth

Subject: John Dwyer - Songs&Stories
From: Stewart
Date: 05 Jan 01 - 01:57 PM

A recent thread on the song "Frozen Logger" drifted to a discussion of other songs about the Pacific Northwest. I posted "Notice to Mariners" by John Dwyer, a song about the Bremerton ferry running aground in the fog. I suggested a new thread on John Dwyer and Don Firth thought that would be a good idea, so here it is. By the way, Don wrote a nice article on John, who died in 1997, in SingOut! vol 42 # 4 p.29. I knew John for only about a year; there are many who knew him better and, I hope, can contribute to this thread. John was a founding member and regular participant in the Seattle Song Circle, which I joined in 1996. He was a crusty curmudgeon, but good friend, a consumate punster with a warped (off-the-wall) sense of humor, a writer of outrageous parodys and songs about historic events in the Pacific Northwest, and an authority on traditional ballads. He sang with a good and strong bass voice, mostly traditional traditional songs or songs with a humorous bent. He rarely missed our weekly song circle, and was always the first to arrive and the last to leave. I remember the Sunday evening in November 1997 when he did not appear at song circle. I had a strong feeling that something bad had happened. It turned out he had died suddenly and alone in his home in Marysville. I wish I had known him better. So, from those of you that did know him and his songs, it would be fun to hear some stories of John and some of his original songs.

Cheers, S. in Seattle