Travels of a strange violin

Subject: Travels of a strange violin
From: Cathryn Wellner
Date: 10 Jan 01 - 12:49 AM

Having just acquired a Stroh violin (which looks like a violin neck with a diaphragm & horn instead of the standard body), I'm curious about the route it traveled from its origins as an instrument for the recording studio. That use gave way with improved technology, but the Stroh is still popular in the county of Bihor, Romania. Anyone know of its travels - and why Bihor?

The instrument I have now was made there in 2000, and I'm curious about the tuning. Instead of the standard violin tuning, the G string is roughly the diameter of a standard E. The diameters of the next three strings are close to the DAE on a normal violin. Anyone familiar with the Bihor tuning of a Stroh or with the music played on it there?

Subject: RE: Travels of a strange violin
From: richardw
Date: 10 Jan 01 - 01:38 PM

Another note to say that this filddle is sometimes associated with Romany or Gypsy music.

Richard

Subject: RE: Travels of a strange violin
From: Mark Clark
Date: 10 Jan 01 - 01:51 PM

Here's a page from Lark In The Morning with two types of Stroh violins. The top of the page has pictures and very bottom of the page shows a similar instrument called a trumpet violin and it includes an MP3 sound file.

Personally, I'm more familiar with Stroh's other product. <g>

      - Mark

Subject: RE: Travels of a strange violin
From: DougR
Date: 10 Jan 01 - 03:34 PM

Wow, Mark Clark! I've never seen an instrument like that. Love to hear one. Thanks for the blue cliky.

DougR

Subject: RE: Travels of a strange violin
From: Morticia
Date: 10 Jan 01 - 06:31 PM

They make something other than rum????Hot damn!!

Subject: RE: Travels of a strange violin
From: Peter Kasin
Date: 10 Jan 01 - 10:13 PM

An interesting aside about the Stroh -

In Tom Anderson's book "Ringing Strings: Traditional Shetland Music And Dance," there's a photograph of Shetland fiddler and composer Willie Pottinger playing a Stroh violin previously owned by a man named George Stark, known as "the blind fiddler." Stark was fiddling from 1902 to 1959. He died in 1960 at age 83. There is no other information given as to whether anyone else played a Stroh in Shetland.

-chanteyranger

Subject: RE: Travels of a strange violin
From: Sorcha
Date: 10 Jan 01 - 10:56 PM

What a weirdness!! I have never, ever heard of or seen these......and I get the "Lark" catalogue......."there is nothing new under the sun, Horatio"........I would like to hear one, but I am quite sure I don't want to own or play one.

Subject: RE: Travels of a strange violin
From: katlaughing
Date: 10 Jan 01 - 11:20 PM

Mark, thanks for the link! The sound of the Trumpet Violin at the bottom of the page was really great! How very interesting!

Here is some more interesting stuff about The Stroh

This spot has some nice pix of one being playedclick here

Subject: RE: Travels of a strange violin
From: CarolC
Date: 10 Jan 01 - 11:31 PM

What an amazing instrument! I would love to know how it would sound accompanied by an accordion. I'm guessing it would sound pretty cool. Especially for playing Romany music.

Carol

Subject: RE: Travels of a strange violin
From: Sorcha
Date: 10 Jan 01 - 11:34 PM

Carol, you are pushing the envelope there, with trumpets and accordians..........(*BG*)

Subject: RE: Travels of a strange violin
From: Mark Clark
Date: 10 Jan 01 - 11:44 PM

Great links, Kat. I had never heard of a Stroh violin before seeing Cathryn's post. I was astonished at the number hits WebFerret returned. The Stroh and trumpet violins seem to be closely related instruments. I'm guessing that the Stroh violin is recognizable by the small horn pointing back at the player's ear and that's what differentiates it from the trumpet violin at the bottom of the Lark page. I'm also guessing that the Stroh sounds very much like the MP3 recording of the trumpet violin they provided.

      - Mark

Subject: RE: Travels of a strange violin
From: CarolC
Date: 10 Jan 01 - 11:50 PM

Hey Sorcha, pushing the envelope is what I do. It's a necessary prerequisite for being an accordionist. (*Equally Big Grin*)

Subject: RE: Travels of a strange violin
From: Sorcha
Date: 10 Jan 01 - 11:59 PM

nnnnaaaayyy, Carol. Welcom to Heaven, here is your harp. Welcome to Hell, here is your acc*****. Accompanied by trumpet.....(*YET A BIGGER GRIN*)

Sorry, Carol. I actually like concertinas and melodians, it's just that I can't stand those giant Lawrence Welk kayboard accordians. I suppose if I had ever met an accoridan player who had any "session" sense, I might feel differently.

Subject: RE: Travels of a strange violin
From: CarolC
Date: 11 Jan 01 - 12:20 AM

Sorry for the thread creep.

Sorcha, you're listening to the wrong accordionists. We have a couple of accordionists with "session" sense, right here in the Mudcat... Skipjack K8, and Sam Pirt. Sam has a CD out, too. I have a tape of Skipjack that I've been using as a learning tool. Although he will never admit this, Skipjack is an amazing accordionist, and he sounds nothing like Lawrence Welk.

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe a lot of really great Eastern European folk music is played on piano accordions and continental chromatic accordions, which are like piano accordions with buttons instead of keys.

To get back on topic, from the look of the Stroh violin, I'm thinking Eastern European music would sound really good played with a Stroh and either a piano accordion or a continental chromatic. Anybody know if I'm right about this?

Carol

Subject: RE: Travels of a strange violin
From: Metchosin
Date: 11 Jan 01 - 12:48 AM

Strange too is the Stroh Guitar currently on exhibit at the Boston Museum's exhibit, "Dangerous Curves, The Art of the Guitar". The CBC Radio in Canada did a piece on the exhibit and the Stroh Guitar last week. You can see it and some other treasures at this site

Subject: RE: Travels of a strange violin
From: Metchosin
Date: 11 Jan 01 - 12:57 AM

From the history given on the link the Stroh guitar was made in England in the 1920's, so perhaps they were making Stroh Violins there as well.

Subject: RE: Travels of a strange violin
From: richardw
Date: 11 Jan 01 - 12:23 PM

Yes, Stroh was from England and that is where this violin was "invented". It is the travel to the Bihor region of Romania that is puzzling. However, it can be imagined that once a street musician heard it they would like it. The regular violin is called a "soft violin" in Bihor. This sucker is LOUD, even with the smallish trumpet on this model.And definitely not soft If Cathryn points it at me in rehearsal it is painful. So for street music or dances it would be great.

The original tuning, as Cathryn mentioned, is interesting. Probably like all those banjo and guitar tunings. We are trying to find a Romanian who can explain it.

As a matter of interest it took a day's work to make this one playable. First the strings. Then the pegs, all different sizes and two broken, had to be replaced and I had to add a fine-tuner tail piece as the pegs were hard to fine tune. The bridge sits on two points (not the body--there is no body): one a very small pin (like a tiny finishing nail) and the other a round part of the diaphram about twice this size: [0]. As you tighten the strings the bridge pulls forward. So tuners on the tailpiece help to pull it back. I made a new bridge and kept the original as a spare. That way I could match the bridge on Cathryn's other violin so the string height is about the same.

Then there is the chin rest. As I struggled to make it fit I realized it fit me fine (but then I don't play violin). So it is made to fit the luthier and his playing style. For instance, if you play against your chest or in the crook of your arm you don't need a chin or shoulder rest.

So, I added another chin rest and we are now experimenting with a shoulder rest and foam to make it fit.

So, $150 bucks later we were in business.

All this will make more sense, to those that care, if you look at the photo on our web-site. (It will be on today for sure.) Sorcha; once Cathryn has a couple of numbers worked out I'll tape them and send them off to you.

Richard (Cathryn's lesser half)

Subject: RE: Travels of a strange violin
From: Cathryn Wellner
Date: 11 Jan 01 - 02:21 PM

Here's the photo Richard refers to in his message: Click here

It was taken by Liz Mellish and Nick Green and shows a Stroh made by the same instrument maker who made ours.

We've also put some good links on that page. One has a detailed history of the Stroh violin. What's still missing is an answer to the puzzle of how it got to Bihor and why it's still popular enough to spawn a cottage industry. We're also keen to find out how it is tuned in Rosia since it's definitely NOT a standard tuning.

Cathryn

Subject: RE: Travels of a strange violin
From: GUEST,Roger the skiffler
Date: 12 Jan 01 - 04:16 AM

Is this the same as a phonofiddle? It looks very similar. I have only seen it "live" in novelty bands like the Alberts and Temperance Seven amd I think some circus clown bands in my youth.
RtS

Subject: RE: Travels of a strange violin
From: Cathryn Wellner
Date: 12 Jan 01 - 10:54 AM

The phonofiddle is probably a shirt-tail relative. From the photos I've seen, it appears to have only one string rather than the 4 of the Stroh.

The Stroh violin was important to musicians in the early day of recordings since the standard violin couldn't make enough sound. Its demise with the development of better technology was natural. What's intriguing is that it is still popular in one region of Romania and that they've come up with a different tuning to make it fit their music.

I'm still hoping someone will enlighten us on its travels and tuning!

Cathryn

Subject: RE: Travels of a strange violin
From: richardw
Date: 13 Jan 01 - 12:23 PM

refresh

Subject: RE: Travels of a strange violin
From: Gypsy
Date: 13 Jan 01 - 06:30 PM

Well, I've seen one of these hanging in the Home Lark store. Didn't know that anyone actually played one. Would love to know how you do on it. Doesn't look too easy.

Subject: RE: Travels of a strange violin
From: GUEST,Cathryn Wellner
Date: 17 Jan 01 - 12:36 PM

I found it very uncomfortable to play, but Richard modified it for me by adding a chin rest, a removable shoulder pad, new pegs, and fine tuners. Because the bridge has an incredibly tenuous perch, it could easily be toppled. The fine tuners allow for less stress on the bridge, but even so it's a challenge to keep it from leaning.

Now that it's easier to hold and play, I'm thoroughly enjoying it. We still have performance issues to work out. It won't need amplification in most settings but may need muting if it's not to overpower other instruments.

We're still wondering about the tuning used in Rosia, Romania, where it was made.