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TECH: How to? (create line breaks)

Timothy Jaques tjaques@netcom.ca 30 Sep 97 - 09:17 PM
Bruce 30 Sep 97 - 10:26 PM
Bruce 30 Sep 97 - 10:45 PM
Shula 30 Sep 97 - 11:47 PM
Bill D 01 Oct 97 - 12:30 AM
Shula 01 Oct 97 - 12:49 AM
Joe Offer 01 Oct 97 - 02:49 AM
Joe Offer 01 Oct 97 - 03:02 AM
Susan of DT 01 Oct 97 - 06:19 AM
Shula 01 Oct 97 - 06:24 AM
Wolfgang (Hell) 01 Oct 97 - 06:31 AM
Shula 01 Oct 97 - 06:35 AM
Bill D 01 Oct 97 - 10:10 AM
Bill D 01 Oct 97 - 10:12 AM
Bill D 01 Oct 97 - 10:16 AM
Bill D 01 Oct 97 - 10:18 AM
Alan of Australia 01 Oct 97 - 10:52 AM
Whippoorwill 01 Oct 97 - 12:55 PM
Jon W. 01 Oct 97 - 03:23 PM
Whippoorwill 01 Oct 97 - 05:24 PM
Tim Jaques tjaques@netcom.ca 01 Oct 97 - 08:21 PM
Susan of DT 01 Oct 97 - 08:22 PM
Tim Jaques tjaques@netcom.ca 01 Oct 97 - 08:34 PM
Alan of Australia 01 Oct 97 - 08:47 PM
Alan of Australia 01 Oct 97 - 08:50 PM
Tim Jaques tjaques@netcom.ca 01 Oct 97 - 09:28 PM
Tim Jaques tjaques@netcom.ca 01 Oct 97 - 09:33 PM
Tim Jaques tjaques@netcom.ca 01 Oct 97 - 09:42 PM
Tim Jaques tjaques@netcom.ca 01 Oct 97 - 09:43 PM
Bill D 01 Oct 97 - 11:22 PM
Bill D 01 Oct 97 - 11:30 PM
dick greenhaus 02 Oct 97 - 01:09 AM
Alan of Australia 02 Oct 97 - 05:17 AM
Alan of Australia 02 Oct 97 - 05:25 AM
Wolfgang 02 Oct 97 - 07:19 AM
Bert 02 Oct 97 - 08:21 AM
Tim Jaques tjaques@netcom.ca 02 Oct 97 - 05:18 PM
Joe Offer 03 Oct 97 - 02:59 AM
Ted from Australia 03 Oct 97 - 11:55 PM
Tim Jaques tjaques@netcom.ca 06 Oct 97 - 05:35 PM
Joe Offer 06 Oct 97 - 06:21 PM
Dale Rose 06 Oct 97 - 06:28 PM
Carl 06 Oct 97 - 06:49 PM
Carl 06 Oct 97 - 06:55 PM
Caolainn 10 Oct 97 - 03:34 PM
Ted from Australia 12 Oct 97 - 08:07 AM
Alan of Australia 12 Oct 97 - 10:37 AM
judy 12 Oct 97 - 07:52 PM
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Subject: How to?
From: Timothy Jaques tjaques@netcom.ca
Date: 30 Sep 97 - 09:17 PM

How do you get the single spacing so that the lyrics stay in stanza form? I can't get it to do that.


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Subject: RE: How to?
From: Bruce
Date: 30 Sep 97 - 10:26 PM

To end line and start new one with no space use left angle bracket br right angle bracket. br is short for 'break'

left angle bracket p right angle bracket end line adds blank line before starting new one.

I'm no expert on HTML, but I've found out that I can copy HTML files to my computer and then look at them with a wored processors to see how they were marked up.


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Subject: RE: How to?
From: Bruce
Date: 30 Sep 97 - 10:45 PM

P.S. Typing in the angle bracket br angle bracket can get tiresome on a long song. I do it in a word processor, putting in a | at the end of each line except the last in each verse, then go to top of file and do SEARCH/REPLACE for | and replace it with angle bracket br angle bracket. This can save considerable time.


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Subject: RE: How to?
From: Shula
Date: 30 Sep 97 - 11:47 PM

Or just type in the bracket-surrounded br, select it, hit Ctrl + C to copy, and hit Ctrl + V to paste at end of each line. If you assign a shortcut key, the paste can be reduced to a single keystroke, and you won't have to limit your paste command, or make a fresh copy for each song.

Since this thread has been started, perhaps it could be dedicated to trial runs of one or the other of these techniques. Wouldn't it make Dick's life a bit simpler when he goes trolling through the threads each day for lyrics to add to the DT, if we all made the modest effort required to learn how to do this?

Shula


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Subject: RE: How to?
From: Bill D
Date: 01 Oct 97 - 12:30 AM

I started out saving a list of the little HTML 'gadgets' all this requires in my 'cardfile'..then I would copy & paste them into any place I needed them..(this is particularly useful whe you want to do the longer stuff, like making 'live' address buttons)...but now I have a faster way...I got a program called "Clipmate" which is like your clipboard, only with no limit on the number of things you can keep up there ready to paste in...even keep 'em in folders of different types....it is one of the most generally useful programs I have seen...(free trial, but it eventually costs a bit...well worth it for those who USE their computer a lot..)

Details if anyone wants....

the point is, all this HTML stuff is hard to remember unless you use it a lot...I prefer to keep the pieces in a file till I need them, and not try to memorize...


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Subject: RE: How to?
From: Shula
Date: 01 Oct 97 - 12:49 AM

Dear Bill D,

Would love to know more HTML codes and as well as more about "Clipmate." Really frustrated by single-item-paste limitation. Thanks for offering.

HOWEVER, fear you may discourage the busy, the timid and the just-plain-lazy by saying it's all so hard to remember. Learning ALL of it may be, but learning to make line-breaks, the critical requirement for entering stanzas, is a VERY, VERY simple process even a sniveling little cyber-wuss like me can manage. So PLEASE TRY THIS, y'all; think of the general benefit; think of Dick!

Shula


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Subject: RE: How to?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 01 Oct 97 - 02:49 AM

OK, so this is an experiment. Usually, I do a search anr replace, and replace the paragraph/line feed marks with an angle-baracketed "br" - the trouble with that is that it reduced the text to a bunch of mashed-together words in my word processor, and I could no longer read it until I posted it. This time, I replaced the paragraph mark with another paragraph maprk, plus a bracketed "br" and I want to see it this does it right or if it double spaces. Here goes:

"Well done, well done, my Pretty Polly
You have tuned your notes well to me
Now your cage shall be made of the finest beaten gold
And the doors of the best ivory"


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Subject: RE: How to?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 01 Oct 97 - 03:02 AM

OK, that seems to work pretty well. the main thing to remember is that the HTML commands have to be enclosed in those arrow brackets that are the uppercase compatriots of your comma and period.. commands are ended by repeating the command with a slash in front of the command (not a backslash).
Some commands:
Bold: "b" - cancelled by "/b"
Italic: "i" and "/i"
Change font size by "font size=7" (or whatever) and "/font"


Indent with "blockquote" and "/blockquote"
I think I have the clickable references figured out, but I can't recall them so I right-click the page and "view source," and then copy how the Omniscient Max did it. Now, if I remembered how to turn all the effects off, I'm outa here.
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: How to?
From: Susan of DT
Date: 01 Oct 97 - 06:19 AM

Shula - nice thought about using the breaks for me and Dick (mostly Dick), but since the stuff gets entered in ascii rather than html, we ultimately have to eliminate any commands. Using breaks sure makes it easier to read on here tho.


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Subject: RE: How to?
From: Shula
Date: 01 Oct 97 - 06:24 AM

Dear Susan,

Could I take a moment of your time in the chat room?

Shula


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Subject: RE: How to?
From: Wolfgang (Hell)
Date: 01 Oct 97 - 06:31 AM

Do I understand you right, Susan of DT?: The real big help would be (besides posting it here as nicely as we care or can) to additionally e-mail the most raw form of our texts to Digitrad?

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: How to?
From: Shula
Date: 01 Oct 97 - 06:35 AM

Susan,

If I may ask ye, WOT IS ASCII, 'n' 'owzit dress 't home?

Shula


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Subject: RE: How to?
From: Bill D
Date: 01 Oct 97 - 10:10 AM

Shula..info on "Clipmate" is at click

addresses like I just did are with this:

(a href=http://www.thornsoft.com)click(/a) ....with angle brackets replacing ( )

you can put a picture in a post with this

(IMG SRC="url") -- again, with angle brackets replacing ( )..and you can describe the picture with whatever you say in place of 'text'....if you eliminate the word 'text', you get just the pic..(Max says it's ok to use a pic sometimes...)(oh, the pic MUST be AT a URL..you can't just post one from your hard drive..
like Joe says, you can right click and 'view source' and see all<\b> this as the machine sees it...

oh...and I think this will make words blink.....words

have fun!!!


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Subject: RE: How to?
From: Bill D
Date: 01 Oct 97 - 10:12 AM

ooops


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Subject: RE: How to?
From: Bill D
Date: 01 Oct 97 - 10:16 AM

oh...pooh!!


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Subject: RE: How to?
From: Bill D
Date: 01 Oct 97 - 10:18 AM

yep...turning it off properly IS an art too!


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Subject: RE: How to?
From: Alan of Australia
Date: 01 Oct 97 - 10:52 AM

G'day,
That should turn off the bold. And just to be a showoff:-

OK here's another effect!

Cheers,
Alan


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Subject: RE: How to?
From: Whippoorwill
Date: 01 Oct 97 - 12:55 PM

One thing I've never been able to figure out is how to transfer a document from a word processor to this message block.
I'm sure there's some way to cut and paste, but I haven't found it yet. Anyone..... please? (he said with a pitiful whine.)


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Subject: RE: How to?
From: Jon W.
Date: 01 Oct 97 - 03:23 PM

Okay Whip, here it is (this assumes you are using Windows, I don't know jack about Mac):

Use whatever means are available in your word processor to block and cut or copy the text to the windows clipboard. The standard commands which may be supported by your word processor are this: hold the shift key down while using the cursor keys to block the desired text. Then push ctrl-x (hold CTRL key down and press X) to cut (an X looks like scissors) or ctrl-c to Copy. Cut and Copy are basically the same except that cut also deletes the text from the current document. The text is then stored to something called a clipboard (just an area of computer memory). Then switch tasks to your Internet browser, position the cursor where you want the text to go, and push ctrl-v to insert the text (V looks like a wedge--something that is INSERTED into wood to split the wood--get it?) and voila'.

Most programs also have menu commands (usually under the Edit menu) for cutting, copying, and pasting. And usually, the mouse can be used to block text by pressing a button (usually the left one on a two button mouse) and, while holding the button down, moving the mouse, causing the pointer to go to the end of the block. Hope this helps.


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Subject: RE: How to?
From: Whippoorwill
Date: 01 Oct 97 - 05:24 PM

Okay, here goes.

This job is a test. It is only a test. If it were a real job, I would receive commendation and remuneration.

Hey, it worked!


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Subject: RE: How to?
From: Tim Jaques tjaques@netcom.ca
Date: 01 Oct 97 - 08:21 PM

Alas, alas, I can post no more if I have to learn all of this magic.

I have both WP 7 and MS Front Page 97, which free me from the necessity of coding HTML as they will create the document in that format upon my asking them to do so. No fun, I admit, but I just want to do the document not become a programer. I'm spread thin enough as it is.

Is there anyway I can make the HTML document in one of these software packages, and paste or insert that file in HTML format into the little message box? Surely merely cut/copy and paste won't work, since cut/copy and paste off the screen works in ASCII. When I highlight and copy info off a web page I can paste it into a WP screen and no HTML tags (I think that's what you call them) show up.

What I can't figure out is how by putting the commands into the message box it converts it into HTML in the manner that I command. I thought that the message box was ASCII and the Great Mighty Mainframe at Mudcat put it into HTML to show up on the web page in the manner in which it saw fit.


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Subject: RE: How to?
From: Susan of DT
Date: 01 Oct 97 - 08:22 PM

Shula - when you get back on after the holidays Sorry i missed you, I do not usually go on line weekday mornings (I am in Eastern time, so the mudcat time is my time zone) and was not on for very long so I missed your request to chat.

ASCII = text. (something like "American Standard Computer Instruction something") "save as" text or text with line breaks from whatever word processor gets you plain vanilla ascii which is readable by anything and very compact. There are letters and numbers and not much else - no font choice, no special commands. This is then read into AskSam. AskSam is the search engine for the DT.

Dick has probably got the striping off the extra characters down to a science. Since I only stripped a few html files, I do not yet have a system to do it efficiently. I will let him respond to how he would like to get files. He will probably say, "any way you want to send them"


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Subject: RE: How to?
From: Tim Jaques tjaques@netcom.ca
Date: 01 Oct 97 - 08:34 PM

I think it's American Standard Communication II, as in "two". Presumably there was once a one.


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Subject: RE: How to?
From: Alan of Australia
Date: 01 Oct 97 - 08:47 PM

Tim,
If you have a package which saves the file in HTML format the copy/paste procedure needs an extra step:

After saving the file open it in Notepad (or some other text editor). You will then see all the HTML tags, but take no notice, just follow Jon W's instructions to copy/paste the entire text.

The message box doesn't convert to HTML, it just takes what it gets.

Cheers,
Alan


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Subject: RE: How to?
From: Alan of Australia
Date: 01 Oct 97 - 08:50 PM

ASCII is American Standard Code for Information Interchange and provides an 8 bit code for all the characters you type and a few you wouldn't.

Cheers,
Alan


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Subject: RE: How to?
From: Tim Jaques tjaques@netcom.ca
Date: 01 Oct 97 - 09:28 PM

I'll test it.

As I rode out one May morning

By the seaside as I was a-wandering

'Twas there I spied a pretty maid

All with her father talking

He said "Thy true love has come on shore

The only man that you do adore

But all of these fellows I'd have you give o'er

Not to wed with a tarry sailor.


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Subject: RE: How to?
From: Tim Jaques tjaques@netcom.ca
Date: 01 Oct 97 - 09:33 PM

:(:(:(:(

And I've managed to screw up the colour, too! What have I done?


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Subject: RE: How to?
From: Tim Jaques tjaques@netcom.ca
Date: 01 Oct 97 - 09:42 PM


So merry, so merry, so merry are we

Not a mortal on earth, like a sailor at sea

Heave away, haul away, swab the decks down

Give a sailor his grog, and nothing goes wrong


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Subject: RE: How to?
From: Tim Jaques tjaques@netcom.ca
Date: 01 Oct 97 - 09:43 PM

Nope, still double-spaces:(


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Subject: RE: How to?
From: Bill D
Date: 01 Oct 97 - 11:22 PM

Tim... all it needs for single space is this...

So merry, so merry, so merry are we(br)
Not a mortal on earth, like a sailor at sea(br)
Heave away, haul away, swab the decks down(br)
Give a sailor his grog, and nothing goes wrong

where the ( ) are really angle brackets...to do this, I added the 'br' with angle brackets AFTER the (br), but you can't see them unless you 'view the source'...or the HTML version which the machine reads...


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Subject: RE: How to?
From: Bill D
Date: 01 Oct 97 - 11:30 PM

if you post in ascii, but add certain combinations of letter/symbols, the software Max writes the page in realizes that you want it to do certain things, and performs HTML tricks on your ascii posting...it is just a matter of throwing some little extra characters after, or into, your text at the right spots....( I wish I thought I was actually answering the question you asked)


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Subject: RE: How to?
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 02 Oct 97 - 01:09 AM

As Susan of DT suggested, it don't make me no never-mind. If you can deal with the (br) line endings, where the parentheses shown are really angled brackets, it makes it easier for folks to read here on the forum, but it doesn't affect my work at all.

Thanx for worrying about it, though.


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Subject: RE: How to?
From: Alan of Australia
Date: 02 Oct 97 - 05:17 AM

Minor additions & corrections to my earlier posts to this thread (I like to get things right):-

The message box doesn't convert to HTML, it just takes what it gets. Actually, it's your browser that interprets the HTML codes.

Strictly speaking and splitting hairs before someone corrects me, ASCII is a 7 bit code. The 8 bit codes are extensions by IBM/Microsoft/whoever.

Cheers,
Alan


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Subject: RE: How to?
From: Alan of Australia
Date: 02 Oct 97 - 05:25 AM

Now let's see if we can fix the background colour.

Cheers,
Alan


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Subject: RE: How to?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 02 Oct 97 - 07:19 AM

Many good hints are also buried in the old thread "basic HTLM-commands...". I have revived it for it answers some questions in this thread in a different way. And as humans are, some learn it easier one way and some another.

As for the main question, how to get a new line for your text, here's my approach in explaining:

Type (or insert into an already written text)
<BR>
and the following words are in the next line.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: How to?
From: Bert
Date: 02 Oct 97 - 08:21 AM

Max,

What's the possibility of putting a "line Feed" button out to the right of this enter message box?


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Subject: RE: How to?
From: Tim Jaques tjaques@netcom.ca
Date: 02 Oct 97 - 05:18 PM

Great! Thanks for the help.


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Subject: RE: How to?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 03 Oct 97 - 02:59 AM

tim, I take it the song the "The Bay of Biscay" - right? Dick/Max - "The Bay of Biscay" is another song in the online database we can't access, along with "Hard Times Come Again No More."
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: How to?
From: Ted from Australia
Date: 03 Oct 97 - 11:55 PM

This is a test to see if Ihave i right The Whale
(Am) (G) (Am)
Di Di Di Di DA Di DE Di Di

(Am) They sailed from port one morning the (G) weather it was (Am) fair
A gentle breeze it pushed them and (G) no one gave a (Am) care
They sang and danced and (Am7) laughed that night and D opened up a (E) keg
They're (Am) out to catch the monster whale that (G) took the captain's
(Am) Di Di Di Di Da (G) Di DE Di (Am)Di

(Am)The Captain said "a piece of gold for (G)him who sees me (Am)whale"
So bend your backs and row me boys I(G) know that we won't (Am)fail
Chorus (chords as Verse1)
So bend your backs and row me lads and take me to me whale.
Tonite we'll sing and dance and tomorrow nite we'll sail.
We'll sail into the harbour no prouder man ther'll be;
We'll show them all we captured the monster from the...
Di Di Di Di Di Da Di Di

They saw the whale one morning the weather it was fair
the men were white as ghosts, the Captain didn't care
I'll take this whale meself he cried the weak can stay behind
The strong can share my glory and tonicht they'll share my..
Di Di Di Di Di Da Di Di

The whale it came so close it was bigger than the sky
they lowered down the longboat and they heard the captain cry
Chorus
Bend your backs and row me lads and take me to me whale.
Tonite we'll sing and dance and tomorrow nite we'll sail.
We'll sail into the harbour no prouder man ther'll be;
We'll show them all we captured the monster from the...
Di Di Di Di Di Da Di Di

Chorus
The whale it came so close it almost tipped the boat
The captain took his spear and he rammed it down it's throat
the whale it gave a mournfull cry and tifted it's great tail a
and brought it down a crushing their small boat like a gale

(spoken) Now 100 years have passed since the Captain and his men
went down to spend their days in Davy Joneses' den
The whale it goes on living but inside it bears a scar
And if your ever neat that place a voice calls from afar

Chorus twice, last line:
We'll show them all we captured the monster from the sea


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Subject: RE: How to?
From: Tim Jaques tjaques@netcom.ca
Date: 06 Oct 97 - 05:35 PM

Yes, Joe, it's the Bay of Biscay, but not the whole tune. I just put in some of it in order to test the HTML thingamajigs.

There is another song with a similar chorus in the Helen Creighton collection, but as I recall it pertains to soldiers.


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Subject: RE: How to?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 06 Oct 97 - 06:21 PM

I would like some advice on OCR. I've got a serviceable scanner on the HP OfficeJet fax/printer the boss sent me, but the boss got the cheap model without the OCR software. Where can I find a reasonably-priced or free OCR program I can use with this machine?
Now, in an ideal world, I'd want a scanner that could read bot the tune and lyrics out of my songbook, converting the tune to midi and the lyrics to text - or the whole thing to a midi-karaoke file with a bouncing ball????
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: How to?
From: Dale Rose
Date: 06 Oct 97 - 06:28 PM

I have thought about that before. Is there a program/scanner/whatever which will scan the music in a song book and convert it to a midi file? If such a device does not exist, it would seem to me anyway that the technology surely is powerful enough now to create such, and that there would be a market for it. I would sure like to have one.


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Subject: RE: How to?
From: Carl
Date: 06 Oct 97 - 06:49 PM

I use very expensive OCR-software (at work, of course). It has less than 1% mistakes (advertisement). That´s about 5 words spelled wrong on a normal plain-text page. Plus lots more if there are tables on it, pictures, whatsoever. So you have to re-read everything very carefully, even using "non-cheap" software. What now about freeware ?!?
So far the real world, now for the ideal world...


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Subject: RE: How to?
From: Carl
Date: 06 Oct 97 - 06:55 PM

By the way, I´m looking for software to use my PC as 8-track (at least) recording-machine. Can you recommend some freeware (ideal world)or something (real world)I have the chance to afford before I´m old and grey ?(No, I won´t post this message in the "Songs about getting really old"-Thread)


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Subject: RE: How to?
From: Caolainn
Date: 10 Oct 97 - 03:34 PM

I'm on a network. How can i make sure someone else doesn't mess with my account here?


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Subject: RE: How to?
From: Ted from Australia
Date: 12 Oct 97 - 08:07 AM

Caolaiin
first change your password then:
check your account details then:
Keep on checking your account details against the log
and make sure that they match or:
check with your Isp or webmaster what security there
is and what guarantees that they offer that your
account cannot be accessed by hackers.


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Subject: RE: How to?
From: Alan of Australia
Date: 12 Oct 97 - 10:37 AM

Dale Rose,
There are a couple of programs that convert scanned sheet music to MIDI. One is called Musicscan and is not too expensive. If I want to get a MIDI file for a melody I find it quicker to just play the music on a MIDI keyboard into a sequencer program. Even though I don't play keyboards very well the beauty of the computer setup is you don't need to be able to play at full speed to get a perfect MIDI file.

Carl,
There are a number of programs which take advantage of the speed of pentium machines to turn your computer into a multi track hard disc recorder. You really need a full duplex sound card. That means it can record on say the left channel while playing back on the right. two sound cards would be better. I use Musicator Audio for this although other programs are probably at least as good. It is amazing what they can do. I have been using Musicator for years as a sequencer and notator and now as a hard disc recorder. Add a CD-R burner and you have a complete recording studio. Remember that you will need a big hard disc - go for 3 to 4 Gigabytes.

Cheers,
Alan


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Subject: RE: How to?
From: judy
Date: 12 Oct 97 - 07:52 PM

testing, testing
this is the next line

trying again using something else[br] this is the next line[br]

third time's a charm

how about double space

will this do it?

success or failure

judy


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