BS: Did you get lit up when the lights when

Subject: Did you get lit up when the lights when
From: GUEST,Roger the skiffler
Date: 18 Jan 01 - 04:50 AM

Sorry to hear that the wealthiest (?) state in the world's greatest democracy can't pay its electricity bill.
Do you want a shilling for the meter?
What did LA 'Catters do in the dark? A triumph for acoustic music? Will there be a population explosion in 9 months time like there was in NY (didn't they make a film comedy of that?)
Is that Joe Offer singing "Let the light of the lighthouse shine on me"?
RtS

Subject: RE: BS: Did you get lit up when the lights when
From: SeanM
Date: 18 Jan 01 - 04:56 AM

Amusingly enough, RTS... Los Angeles is the ONLY city that I know of in California that is not (and will not) be facing the 'rolling blackouts'. Seems that when the rest of the state caught de-regulation fever, LA said "screw this, we're going to run and regulate our own public utility, rather than let the private sector take it".

Oddly enough, at the time, PG & E (now being forced into bankruptcy hearings) loudly proclaimed that LA was going to be in the dark and charging higher rates than anyone else in the country. Even stranger, as of now, one of the reasons that California is still lit is due to LA selling off the huge backlog of reserves that they keep in their public utility that wouldn't work.

And to think... it's only taken blackouts across northern California and threatened blackouts to the remainder of southern CA to get the pundits thinking that maybe deregulation of a backbone service wasn't such a good idea...

M

Subject: RE: BS: Did you get lit up when the lights when
From: GUEST,Roger the skiffler
Date: 18 Jan 01 - 05:23 AM

Good news for LA, bad news for failed "comedians" trying to find an alliterative thread title!
I was trying to call it "Did you get lit up when the lights went out in LA?" to echo the old wartime blackout song: "Did you get lit up when the lights went out in London?"
I try to keep a tenuous musical content in these BS threads!
RtS (It couldn't happen here now we have privatised untilities....or could it?)

Subject: RE: BS: Did you get lit up when the lights when
From: SeanM
Date: 18 Jan 01 - 06:01 AM

I don't know... "The Night The Lights Went Out in Oakland" might be appropriate. Not necessarily folk, yet appropriate.

M

Subject: RE: BS: Did you get lit up when the lights when
From: Trevor
Date: 18 Jan 01 - 06:11 AM

I heard this morning that the problem was being exacerpated because it is so chilly at the moment on the West coast that everybody has turned the central heating up.

It's pretty parky up on top of my hill in Shropshire as well and we can't even go surfing.

More Reddy-Brek anybody?

Subject: RE: BS: Did you get lit up when the lights when
From: Melani
Date: 18 Jan 01 - 02:12 PM

I'm almost afraid to ask what Reddy-Brek is. We lost power at the San Francisco Maritime Library on Tuesday, but it turned out to be a normal storm-related failure. They were supposed to have cut off my home zone yesterday, but nothing happened at my house, though my kid's former elementary school apparently got it. I guess the Fisherman's Wharf area was hit as well, but I won't be back at work till Tuesday, so with luck I'll miss all the fun. We have already used up all the firewood that's been sitting around the garage for three years. There was frost on the ground this morning--unusual for this neck of the woods.

Subject: RE: BS: Did you get lit up when the lights when
From: mousethief
Date: 18 Jan 01 - 02:18 PM

Part of the problem, isn't it, is that the various local authorities in California have no control over the power grid, and they keep building more and more living units, without being able to require that new generating facilities be built to supply them with electricity. The generating industry stagnated for the last 10 years, in part because they felt they could get more money if electricity were more scarce, and thus had disincentive to build new generating capacity. Just another lovely example of how unbridled capitalism leads to unbridled fuckups. (NOTE I did not say all capitalism, just unbridled capitalism, so if you want to argue that one, sit on a tack.)

Alex

Subject: RE: BS: Did you get lit up when the lights when
From: Kim C
Date: 18 Jan 01 - 03:15 PM

If we had been using solar power all along, California might not be having this problem...

Subject: RE: BS: Did you get lit up when the lights when
From: Melani
Date: 18 Jan 01 - 03:19 PM

Considering the Bay Area percentage of foggy days, we'd better have really good storage capability to use solar. Maybe a combination of sources is best.

Subject: RE: BS: Did you get lit up when the lights when
From: mousethief
Date: 18 Jan 01 - 03:21 PM

Or transmission capability, Mel. Lots of sunny days in the deserts of California. But you are right that a combination of sources is best.

Alex

Subject: RE: BS: Did you get lit up when the lights when
From: catspaw49
Date: 18 Jan 01 - 03:30 PM

Skiff I gotta' give you this, you are bringing new meaning to the word "dimbulb."

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Did you get lit up when the lights when
From: UB Ed
Date: 18 Jan 01 - 04:13 PM

I work in the electric utility industry and was having a conversation the other day along the lines of "if you were in charge of the California situation what would you do to fix it." I'm sorry to say we could not think of one thing. That boogie's a mess and the pressures extend across the entire western grid.

Taking a monopolistic enterprise into competition is no small feat and the theoretical economists can ably argue both sides of the benefits of monopoly versus pure competition. In California, the "transition" period is coming to a close where the incumbent utilitie's rates will no longer be frozen. It is important to recognize the utilities out there having been buying wholesale energy at a much higher price than the frozen rates allow. No amount of volume can turn that around! So their financial position has eroded and wholesale suppliers are not willing to take the credit risk to sell to them.

Although wholesale prices are at historic highs, new facilities have not been built, but please don't view this as a conspiracy. California has the toughest environmental licensing laws in the land and, sad to say, that greatly increases the price tag for new generation. I understand there are a number of units that could run right now, but would be inviolation of maximum run times in their air permit.

And there are many more related issues.

Needless to say, the CA situation is major serious and could require rather draconian solutions.

Subject: RE: BS: Did you get lit up when the lights when
From: Gypsy
Date: 18 Jan 01 - 04:14 PM

Must say, i enjoy the rolling outages. Unlimited chance for mirth. Such as: the guys doing construction at the office, when the power went off. Sat at my desk, and watched as first one, then the other, tried to make a Sawsall work. On and off, plug, and unplug, shake and curse. Let them play that game for a while, before telling them that the power was off. But, since we are forewarned about this happening, do as i do: have water, alternative heat/cooking, and plan ahead. not the end of the world. It wasn't long ago that we went without power for 3 weeks. And of course, the live in Mother In Law recalls when power STARTED. So, we don't worry about outages too much

Subject: RE: BS: Did you get lit up when the lights when
From: Stewart
Date: 18 Jan 01 - 04:37 PM

That's the night the lights went out in California
That's the night they stopped payin' their 'lectric bills
Well, don't trust your soul to no corporate greedy lawyers
'cause the pols in the state's got bought-out once again.

Cheers, S. in Seattle

Subject: RE: BS: Did you get lit up when the lights when
From: Kim C
Date: 18 Jan 01 - 04:48 PM

Yea, though I walk through the Valley of Darkness, I will fear no evil, for I have a Coleman stove. :)

Subject: RE: BS: Did you get lit up when the lights when
From: mousethief
Date: 18 Jan 01 - 05:03 PM

I wonder, if these blackouts continue, how many people will die from asphyxiation from using flame devices (lanterns, stoves, etc.) and not allowing for adequate venting? I hope the "powers that be" are getting the word out about this danger.

alex

Subject: RE: BS: Did you get lit up when the lights when
From: Melani
Date: 19 Jan 01 - 03:06 AM

Not to mention people who are at home on respirators or other sorts of life-support machines.

Subject: RE: BS: Did you get lit up when the lights when
From: Gypsy
Date: 20 Jan 01 - 12:00 AM

That's the problem, Melani. I can be blithe and self sufficient, but we have no major health problems. And, consider the case of the poor fellow in the dental chair! Ug! In spite of what is propagandized, we don't have any warning, power just goes off. But then again, it is only for an hour or two. Am far more concerned about the cost of the PG&E bill, than that. We are zoned rural by the PG&E map, which means our bill is skyhigh anyway. Hence, the wood stove, candles, and aucostic music!