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BS: Smoking vs Non Smoking Venues
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Subject: Smoking vs Non Smoking Venues From: Dave Wynn Date: 21 Jan 01 - 04:45 PM My mate Iarf is thinking of making the folk music club he runs (with two others) a non-Smoking venue. I warned him that this would possibly be a bit devisive in that smokers may feel their freedoms violated. Of course for the duration of the club (some 18 years) non smokers have had to put up with a sometimes smokey atmosphere and the damage this can cause. Without going into the details of passive smoking being dangerous or not , do any MC'ers have experience (pos or neg) of making this change? Spot (on behalf of Iarf) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Smoking vs Non Smoking Venues From: sophocleese Date: 21 Jan 01 - 04:51 PM Well our local Tim Horton's have changed to non-smoking. They didn't think it would have an adverse effect on sales of donuts and coffee. Our local folk society has been non-smoking since it began. Its irritating for non-smokers when half the room empties during their song as all the smokers head outdoors to puff, but that's more an ettiquette issue rather than a smoking one. I suspect that you will lose a few people but ten may get others coming. If its possible to have a well ventilated smoking area away from the performers you could try that first. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Smoking vs Non Smoking Venues From: Clinton Hammond Date: 21 Jan 01 - 05:00 PM I love non-smokeing venues... and I'm a smoker... that's what breaks are for... Last time I saw James Keelaghan at The Ark in Ann Arbour... He and I were the only smokers in the place, religated to a small table, one chair and a tin-foil ashtray at the end of an unused hallway! We had a great time! LOL!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Smoking vs Non Smoking Venues From: John Routledge Date: 21 Jan 01 - 05:06 PM IARF - Please give it a go As a singer I will state the obvious. My throat without smoke sounds better than with. As far as the health issue is concerned I am more relaxed! Let the Forum know of your decision. Non smokers who can occasionally put up with a smokey club will come more regularly if it is smoke-free. Cheers Geordie Broon |
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Subject: RE: BS: Smoking vs Non Smoking Venues From: Tyke Date: 21 Jan 01 - 05:14 PM None Smoking Folk Clubs Are Great Because I can nip out for a Smoke whilst the worst floor singers are strutting there stuff without feeking guilty. However I do smoke Hand Rolled cig's that are not fill with all the other chemicals that Taylor Made's have. This means that they go out quite a lot and do not burn away in the ashtray. The smoke from tailor made's burning away gets up my nose and I smoke. It's important to remember that unless you have private room in a pub and charge a nominal entrance fee. You are not in charge of the room and you cannot make the rule's the Liecence how ever can. Your jugement in this matter is all that counts realy. Most Young people Smoke! The most of the children of the organisers want to go somewhere that is not controled by there parent's. Would you when you were young! Should you smoke no! Should I smoke no! Anyone can tell you why a club is unsucsessfull but when it a sucsess it is never that easy to define. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Smoking vs Non Smoking Venues From: nutty Date: 21 Jan 01 - 05:23 PM To a smoker making a venue smoke free is akin to making it beer free Although I have fought to give up smoking and am at present succeeding I would ask for a little tolerance. You can either have smokers in the club or outside you can't have it both ways As for a 'question of etiquette' - that also has two sides and again requires more than a modicum of tolerance |
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Subject: RE: BS: Smoking vs Non Smoking Venues From: Jon Freeman Date: 21 Jan 01 - 05:24 PM The move pretty well marked the start of the slow death of the Llandudno Folk Club but their were several other factors involved including the organisers not even asking the landlord (who was a smoker) if they could ban smoking in the back room of his pub on folk nights and several niggles not related to the smoking. I don't know how it would have worked out if it had have been done tactfully - I know I wouldn't have continued to attend the club unless there was a really good act that I wanted to hear but I suspect the majority of smokers might have done and it may have attracted a few others. I guess you just have to tread carefully and see how it goes. Jon |
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Subject: RE: BS: Smoking vs Non Smoking Venues From: John Routledge Date: 21 Jan 01 - 05:32 PM One person chain smoking can affect a whole room of people who are not smoking either because they do not smoke or have chosen not to at that time. It sure needs more than a modicum of tolerance on the part of the people not smoking! Good Luck with your campaign GB |
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Subject: RE: BS: Smoking vs Non Smoking Venues From: John Routledge Date: 21 Jan 01 - 05:34 PM Sorry - Good luck with your campaign Nutty. GB |
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Subject: RE: BS: Smoking vs Non Smoking Venues From: Deckman Date: 21 Jan 01 - 05:41 PM I simply refuse to sing in a smoking club. No if's ands or butts. It's my life, my health. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Smoking vs Non Smoking Venues From: katlaughing Date: 21 Jan 01 - 06:22 PM Same here, Deckman. I never go out to any of the bars with music or music venues around here because they are all so smoke-filled. Last year I became very ill after spending an evening in a restaurant which was filled with smokers; it took me two months to recover from that one night. kat |
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Subject: RE: BS: Smoking vs Non Smoking Venues From: Morticia Date: 21 Jan 01 - 06:29 PM Well, like Jon, I have seen it spell the end of a club.....but it was faltering anyway....so don't take that into account.From my point of view, if I have to leave the room and miss half the turns , I'd as soon not go at all, but I'm accustomed to being in the minority. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Smoking vs Non Smoking Venues From: Dave Wynn Date: 21 Jan 01 - 06:39 PM It's a bit late but a straw poll could be useful...any future posters please indicate if they would prefer or not a non smoking club and if you are or are not a smoker. Spot (trying not to be boring) the Beagle |
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Subject: RE: BS: Smoking vs Non Smoking Venues From: bill\sables Date: 21 Jan 01 - 06:51 PM Most of the theatres closed after banning smoking Bill |
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Subject: RE: BS: Smoking vs Non Smoking Venues From: hesperis Date: 21 Jan 01 - 08:25 PM After one performance of "Like Water" at Smokey Joe's in Toronto, (which is actually called Holy Joe's,) I became extremely nauseous, and had to leave three songs before the end. I couldn't suppress my coughing anymore. They were good performers too! Since then, I have lost all desire to sing, stopped going to song circle, and have missed many local performances, including many of Hawkster's. I don't even want to leave my apartment right now. Someday I hope to sing again. I just wish we had a completely non-smoking venue in Orillia. But for someone with allergies, that's hard to guarantee. All it takes for me to have an attack is a little bit of it on someone's clothing. They could be three chairs away, and I'd still smell it. (Which is why I stopped going to Song Circle.) Of course, I'm also allergic to ALL smoke, not just tobacco, which makes it worse, but still... Hopefully I'll feel better when I have the treatment for smoke, but that's a while away yet. Just something more for you to consider. Good luck. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Smoking vs Non Smoking Venues From: kendall Date: 21 Jan 01 - 09:06 PM I'm a non smoker. There are a few things that really piss me off. One of them is "Smokers rights" I will not go into a smokey room, let alone sing there! Fortunatly, some time ago, Maine banned smoking in all restaurants. None of them went out of business because of it, in spite of dire predictions by smokers who were afraid they would have to get through a meal without polluting the air. It's a shock to me to go into a restaurant out of state, and be asked if I want smoking, or, non smoking. EXXON didn't have the right to pollute Prince William Sound, and smokers dont have the right to pollute the air in a public place. I must breathe...you dont have to smoke. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Smoking vs Non Smoking Venues From: Clinton Hammond Date: 21 Jan 01 - 09:06 PM No offence but if you're gonna stop to consider all allergies out there, then you may as well never open ANY venue... Yer just gonna have to make yer decision one way or the other and accept the consequneces... example...my local, the pub I play at most often, in this anti-smoking climate, had it's designation changed so that it could avoid that supid laws that the anti-smoking nazis want inforced... (What is the deal now, I can only smoke at hoime, in my room with a blanket over my head??) They's that can't or won't tolerate smoking are more than welcome to cast thier vote as consumers by not frequenting the place... where's the problem in that? ;-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Smoking vs Non Smoking Venues From: Bill D Date: 21 Jan 01 - 09:30 PM If I you were eating at a restaurant and I decidet to plat trombone or bagpipes at the next table, you'd see that logic in banning THAT soon enough...and it isn't even strictly unhealthy! And, if tobacco were a new invention that had just been tried and was under investigation, it would NEVER get approval! The ONLY reason it still exists is because of the economic shock of stopping it all at once. And if tobacco companies were not able to sell their product in 3rd world countries, they would be hurting. For non-smokers, a smoke filled room is PAINFUL! It is unhealthy!...Your so-called 'rights' as smokers were pandered to long enough. This is one issue where not even a majority should rule....I have seen the society (in the USA) change from one in which cigarettes were everywhere and no escape, to a situation where USUALLY a smoker must go AWAY to smoke! I can well understand that it is a nuisance for one who is addicted to do things like going outside...or waiting to the end of an airplane flight...but your 'nuisance' is NOTHING compared to my comfort & health! The only reason I have EVER threatened to punch someone was for blowing smoke directly in my face. I am sorry if you are hooked and can't easily give it up...I'm even sorrier if you are one who thinks you actually 'enjoy' smoking....but that's how it is...and in 20-40 years, it will be a rare thing to see a cigarette. Thank goodness. (who, ME?..opinionated? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Smoking vs Non Smoking Venues From: Sorcha Date: 21 Jan 01 - 09:50 PM I smoke, and I prefer non smoking venues. It's hard enough work up there on stage (whether you're singing or just playing) without having to deal with breathing. I go outside on breaks. Simple courtesey. Just a thought--for allergic people like hesperis, just banning smoking may not help. If a room has been smoked in for years, the smell and allergens will linger for a long time, even if the drapes, carpet, etc. are replaced. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Smoking vs Non Smoking Venues From: Plume Date: 21 Jan 01 - 10:10 PM Well said, Bill. The bottom line is this: smokers may attend events at non-smoking venues without any additional risk to their health. Fifty years of hard evidence and countless deaths from lung cancer should be enough to convince anyone that the non-smoker puts him or herself at serious risk any time he or she attends an event in a venue where smoking is permitted. There is simply no comparison between a smoker's "rights" and a non-smokers right to breathe unpolluted air. I have to add that I deeply resent the term "nazi" being applied to those of us who do not wish to breathe in yours or anyone else's pollutants. I'd actually like to see an end to the use of this term to dismiss, willy-nilly, all those who happen to disagree with a particular point of view. A carpenter friend of mine keeps a sign in his shop that reads: "If I See You Smoking, I Will Assume You Are On Fire and Take Appropriate Action." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Smoking vs Non Smoking Venues From: Clinton Hammond Date: 21 Jan 01 - 10:20 PM Plume, et al... You miss my point... my point is this... if you are a rabid, non smoker... cast your vote where it counts, economicaly... don't support business that do allow smoking... But if you are willingly in say The Kildare House in Windsor Ontario, don't expect your non-smoking requests to even be considered... It says on a sign beside the front door "tobacco friendly"... Expect nothing else... As I said aboive though.. I am a smoker, and I prefer to getor perform my music at nonsmoking venues and then hit the pub after and smoke like it's a cure for cancer... I don't "THINK" I enjoy smoking... I ENJOY smoking! I don't want your pity... and I don't want you telling me how I feel! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Smoking vs Non Smoking Venues From: Deckman Date: 21 Jan 01 - 10:24 PM Here's my reply to Clinton Hammond ... You mentioned that I'm 'gonna have to make my own decision and live with it. Well, I am. And the result is this: YOU will never hear me sing,and I won't have to watch you die from stupid smokers disease. Seems to me that I win on both counts. CHEERS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Smoking vs Non Smoking Venues From: rabbitrunning Date: 21 Jan 01 - 10:46 PM I'm another allergic one. (Asthma.) I've had to give up bowling because of smoke, and I can't even walk into many stores because of strong incense or perfumes. I also avoid smoky music venues. I do believe that it's the business' right to choose whether they allow smoking or not. I want to see it posted in large letters on the door, so I know not to go in, though. (I hate "smoking or non-" restaurants, though, because I invariably have to walk through the smoky part to get to the bathrooms. Make it all one or the other, and then say that a switch from smoking to non-smoking means cleaning your carpet and ventilation systems...) If you do go to non-smoking, make it known! Put it in your ads or flyers for the first year or so, so that people like me who have given up on trying to go to listen to folk music because we can't breathe have a chance to discover that there's a place we can go now. And ask your current audiences if they know of friends who don't come any more because of the smoke. As far as the sub-issue of "a right to smoke", I think that as long as we allow people to surf in shark infested waters and drive race cars, we can't stop 'em from smoking. But I am infuriated by people who smoke in places where they know that smoking is not allowed. If I am going out of my way (and I frequently am) to avoid places where smoking is allowed, then I should be able to breathe. Inconsiderate smokers tar, if you'll forgive the pun, the reputation of every smoker. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Smoking vs Non Smoking Venues From: Clinton Hammond Date: 21 Jan 01 - 10:53 PM Hey Deckman... chill... I got to lots of non smoking events... and I have no problem at all not smoking there... but when someone tries to tell me that I can't smoke in a smoke friendly pub, I tell 'em ot get stuffed! More what I ment there, about making a decision was from a business P.O.V.... if yer gonna have a club, make it either non-smoking, or smoke friendly... there are consequences to both choices... you have to be prepared to live with those choices is all I ment... I didn't mean it in a nasty way at all... Peace eh! ;-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Smoking vs Non Smoking Venues From: hesperis Date: 21 Jan 01 - 11:30 PM Yeah, if you took all allergies into account, nothing would exist. There's always somebody allergic to something. But when it comes to proven cancer-causing agaents... that affect the people who don't actually smoke it, I just have to say WTF do you think you're doing? Killing yourself is against the law. Killing other people is murder, and is also against the law. (Both written and moral.) HELLO! Just because judges are themselves addicted to the stuff, and just because there is an economic payoff from the tobacco industry, doesn't give people the right to kill. If we had a really non-smoking venue in town, it would be good. I might even be more tolerant of smoker's rights to kill themselves any way they please, if I had a place to go to. All we have is the Opera House, which is stuffed-shirt and expensive, both for listening and booking. And there's stale smoke in there anyway... I really like that place in Newmarket... whatever it's called. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Smoking vs Non Smoking Venues From: GUEST,Sam Hudson Date: 22 Jan 01 - 02:46 AM The club I help organise went non-smoking several years ago without any problem and to general approval from our regulars. It's a small room, so smoke was very intrusive, the number of smokers attending was reducing anyway and the majority of performers prefer a smoke-free atmosphere. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Smoking vs Non Smoking Venues From: GUEST,sooz(at work) Date: 22 Jan 01 - 03:24 AM Go for it! Our club meets in a tiny room and one person smoking ruins it for everyone else so anyone who can't do without a drag goes down to the main bar. We haven't had any sulks or bad reactions. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Smoking vs Non Smoking Venues From: Dave the Gnome Date: 22 Jan 01 - 04:03 AM Straw Poll -
Do I smoke - no Would I like my club to be non-smoking - yes Dave the coughing Gnome |
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Subject: RE: BS: Smoking vs Non Smoking Venues From: nutty Date: 22 Jan 01 - 05:30 AM Nuff said I think - there are so many perspectives on this subject there is never going to be 100% agreement But let me again stress that something arranged by negotiation is likely to be more successful than something imposed PS. I am allergic to perfume not just scent and aftershave but natural flower perfumes - carnations and hyacinths are particularly bad - and now that I am a non-smoker I will suffer all the more as my sense of smell improves. Its not just the smoke haters that suffer |
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Subject: RE: BS: Smoking vs Non Smoking Venues From: KingBrilliant Date: 22 Jan 01 - 06:21 AM I used to smoke, and gave up just because I went off the taste (so I'm no evangelistic non-smoker). However, now I personally find that smoke is annoying and unpleasant if there's a lot of people smoking - and it certainly affects my throat the next day. I was at a singaround the other night where someone was smoking cigars & I was nearly gagging - yeuk!!! (I think cigar smoke is supposed to be less canciferous than ciggies though? Is that right?)
If a venue is very smoky then I'll most likely stay away. Our local folk club is non-smoking, which I like (and it means I can take my mum, who is very allergic to cigarette smoke, there). However, having said that, I suspect that it does exclude (or discourage) some people - which is a shame. But - the good thing is that there are a lot of venues locally which are not non-smoking (ie they are in the bar of a pub) & so there really is somewhere for everybody. So I'd say that it is a very good thing to have at least one non-smoking venue per locality. Could you have a trial period, and see how it goes?? Give people a chance to try it and see? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Smoking vs Non Smoking Venues From: GUEST,Dita (at work) Date: 22 Jan 01 - 07:07 AM Stiring Folk Club, in Scotland, one of the best, went non-smoking, two years ago. Despite the proposer thinking, prior to the AGM, that she had a battle on her hands, the motion was passed with no-one against. There has been no problems with attendences, the club goes from strength to strengh, (good committee). One point I recall being made during the pre vote debate was that many artists include a "no-smoking clause" in their contracts these days. On a personal note as a non-smoker, my pet hate is openng my guitar case at home a couple of days after playing a smoky venue. Iain MacIntosh, Scottish folk singer of renown and non-smoker, is only recenly back on the road after a serious chest illness, brought about by many years of travelling in cars etc with Hamish Imlach and other heavy smokers. love, john. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Smoking vs Non Smoking Venues From: kendall Date: 22 Jan 01 - 07:16 AM Iain McIntosh? he and I shared the bill in Kirkaldy 10 years ago. Someone screwed up and booked both of us at the same time. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Smoking vs Non Smoking Venues From: kendall Date: 22 Jan 01 - 07:52 AM I must breathe ..you dont have to smoke.And, the truth is, you smoke to avoid the discomfort of not smoking. Do cocain snorters "enjoy" it? I doubt it. If they dont feed that addiction, it is painful to them. Same with nicotine.Denial is more than a river in Africa. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Smoking vs Non Smoking Venues From: KingBrilliant Date: 22 Jan 01 - 08:20 AM Hey Animaterra - don't sit on the fence - or were you just posting very very quietly :) Kris
Oops, sorry, KB & Animaterra. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Smoking vs Non Smoking Venues From: John P Date: 22 Jan 01 - 08:49 AM There are three (that I know of) non-smoking pubs in Seattle. One of them is my local. All of them are doing very well -- they are always packed with people. They are the only pubs I play music at anymore. I wish there were more non-smoking places -- I usually choose not to go hear music that I want to hear because the venue will be full of smoke. John |
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Subject: RE: BS: Smoking vs Non Smoking Venues From: bill\sables Date: 22 Jan 01 - 08:59 AM I agree with you all about the dirty habit of smoking in folk clubs and I think it should be banned but while we're at it why not ban the filthy habit of drinking alcohol in folk clubs. When I sit next to someone who has beer on his breath it makes me feel sick and then when it comes their time to sing they are too pissed to remember the right words and it all comes out as a slur. When they try to get up to go to the lavatory, which is quite regular, they always kick someone's guitar over which was leaning safely on a table before they decided to stumble by. At the end of the evening they get up and go to their cars and, using the car park as a dodgem arena, proceed to reverse into as many other peoples cars as they can. If they are lucky they get home without killing themselves or anyone else. Surely this is a good reason to ban alcohol in folk clubs. But why stop there, we could also ban anyone who farts in a folk club, they have no feeling for others, they seem to think that their farts smell good and generally laugh when they fart especially when it is a loud one during someone else's slow love song. We could also ban bald men because their heads reflect the light and dazzle musicians while they are playing. Fat people should also be banned because they take up too much room. Women should be banned so as the men could sing bawdy songs and not feel too embarrassed. Irish musicians should not be allowed to play either because they play too fast for everyone else to join in. We could also ban singer - songwriters because they are boring and the songs they sing are only of interest to themselves. Hunting songs should be banned because they are praising a soon to be illegal pastime. Americans should not be allowed either because of their habit of singing cowboy songs where the Native Americans always loose. In fact why not ban folk clubs all together, they attract the bearded aging hippie types who sing long boring songs. They play tunes which are not always in 4/4 time and you can't do disco dancing to them. Or would it be better to leave the clubs as they are and keep the traditions going in a world where there are too many people who want to force their own ideas on everyone else. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Smoking vs Non Smoking Venues From: black walnut Date: 22 Jan 01 - 09:09 AM my two favourite clubs in Toronto are Acoustic Harvest and The Flying Cloud, in large part because they are non~smoking. i did venture into Ted's (Cough, Cough) Wrecking Yard, 3 separate times, but those were very very very special situations, worth choking and gasping for (Kelly Joe Phelps, twice, and Mary Jane Lammond). ~black walnut |
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Subject: RE: BS: Smoking vs Non Smoking Venues From: KingBrilliant Date: 22 Jan 01 - 09:43 AM Bill, you're right of course, but I still think smoking is a special case - because none of those other things give me black bogies..... Spot on about the drunks - ban 'em all - except when I are one. Oh hang on though, then what about Mark? Hmmm. Farting though. That's got to be indefensible. Oops - pardon me Here's an idea - why not issue those little white face-mask things that cyclists wear? That would muffle the long boring songs too!!! (and you could yawn behind them during said long boring songs). I can picture it...... Of course those who do indulge would have to cut holes in them to stick the ciggie through (and I'm not sure whether they're flammable or not - could be dangerous). Kris |
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Subject: RE: BS: Smoking vs Non Smoking Venues From: Jon Freeman Date: 22 Jan 01 - 09:47 AM I think I am pretty much with Nutty on this and repeat my previous thoughts. Try it by all means but do so tactfully and put it to every regular member. Much depends on attitudes and much of the eventual failure of the Llandudno club (of which I had previously been a member of the resident group/ organiser for 6 years) was down to a general dicttorial attitude rather than just the sudden announcement "No smoking in the club because we say so". I think perhaps the biggest mistake the club made on the immediate no-smoking policy was that most of the stronger regular floor singers were either, like myself, smokers or tolerant to smokers and that together with other unrelated issues helped to lead to the Conwy Club to be formed and survived while the other club ended up getting moved out to another pub in Llandudno that was not even a separate room and VERY smokey... Things had got so silly by that point that 2 or 3 of us had to fight and cast a vote to stop the Conwy Club being on the same night as the Llandudno Club to spite it... Anyway, I am pretty tired of folk clubs and the politics that have gone with them but I will attend if I enjoy one. For me, that means being able to sit down with a pint and having a smoke without having to go outside and they rarely (the excepeption being a performer/ group I really want to hear) offer enough for me to be put through the inconvenience of going outside. I appreciate that is just me and that I am hopelessly addicted but that is how it is with me and I am the same way at parties. I have walked out of several when I have learned that there is no smoking in the house having been invited by people who KNOW I AM A SMOKER. They seem kind of stunned to learn that I would rather have gone home to my can of beer and cigarette than to have enjoyed thier "hospitality" but that is how addicted I am. As for folk clubs, I (and others) have found the fumes from candles burning more offensive than tobbaco burning. Jon |
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Subject: RE: BS: Smoking vs Non Smoking Venues From: Mooh Date: 22 Jan 01 - 09:58 AM Second-hand smoke has kept me from gigging as much as I'd like. Please make the change to a non-smoking venue. Mooh. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Smoking vs Non Smoking Venues From: Dave the Gnome Date: 22 Jan 01 - 10:00 AM Ah but Bill (S), I know your last post was (at least partially) in jest but I think I have a response. Not an original I'm afraid but a good one all the same. I am a non-smoking drinker. I do not object to anyone smoking, I used to smoke myself until the asthma kicked in. What I do object to is the by-product of smoking, used smoke. If it is OK to dispose of the by-product of smoking without leaving the room then surely it is OK to dispose of the by-product of my particular vice (drinking) in a similar manner. I'm pretty sure that no-one would be happy with me peeing over them though - or waking up in the morning smelling of stale urine. Would they? Oh - and I restrict my farting to the gents toilets as well btw! As to keeping traditions alive I am pretty confident in saying that if you was to go back a hundred years or so you would find that a large number of pubs had a smoke room where smoking was permitted and the dreaded weed was excluded from the rest of the premises. By that mark, and by comparing the difference between how long us europeans have and have not used tobacco, the tradition of NOT smoking in pubs is far older than the smoking one - so which one should we choose? As someone you have met I am sure you realise there is no animosity in this posting, but as an asthmatic who loves folk music I, for one, would benefit from having a clean air environment. I believe non-smokers are now in the majority and that it would be very little inconvenience for smokers to have a designated smoking room in most pubs. I used to smoke 4 or 5 cigarettes a night - 1 for each pint. For me it would have been no trouble to have those cigarettes outside the folk club - 12 to 15 minutes out of 3 hours would not have been a major inconvenience. And I could have had most of those between songs, in the break or during bits I was not enjoying anyway. I do not want to ban smoking or smokers - just restrict the practice to areas where the majority do not object to it. I do not want to impose my will on any other club organiser, but as an organiser myself I would be foolish not to consider all options, including non-smoking nights as well as a total ban in my club. BTW - the hand roll-ups you use are nowhere near as bad as tailor mades - If everyone went onto them we may not have a problem. Cheers and hoping to pop across to your (smoking in more ways that one!) club in the near future. Let's agree to differ and hope that there will be a time when we both have an environment where we can enjoy the music to the full. Dave the (Cough, cough, wheeeeeze) Gnome |
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Subject: RE: BS: Smoking vs Non Smoking Venues From: MMario Date: 22 Jan 01 - 10:05 AM I am a smoker - and under normal circumstances I will go out of my way to NOT offend non-smokers. I proposed and lead the support which turned our church into a non-smoking building. (Though they kindly then put an urn for butts in the sheltered breezway for those of us who do smoke.) It does get very confusing though when you enter a non-smoking venue - and find the air so thick with incense and candle smoke that it would be difficult to detect a bad cigar! This happens more often then you would suspect. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Smoking vs Non Smoking Venues From: Mike Regenstreif Date: 22 Jan 01 - 10:17 AM I ran the Golem, an 80-seat folk club in Montreal in the 1970s and '80s. Montreal is probably the smoking capital of North America. In the early-1980s I decided to ban smoking in the club. Attendance went up noticably. Many non-smokers who used to come out occasionally started coming more often. There were only a couple of complaints from smokers who had to go out in the breaks and scores of bravos from non-smokers (including myself) who found the club much more enjoyable. Most music venues in Montreal are still smoking places. I have to REALLY want to see the performer to get me to go. It's much easier to get me out to a non-smoking gig. Mike Regenstreif
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Subject: RE: BS: Smoking vs Non Smoking Venues From: kendall Date: 22 Jan 01 - 11:09 AM I have a brother who is so hooked, he will not go ANYWHERE that he is expected to not smoke. Thats sad. It also includes his daughters home. He hasn't seen her or his grand children in years..thats not just sad, it's pitiful! Last time he came to see me,he asked if he could have a cigarette. I figured one would be ok, but, the next thing I knew, his girlfriend came in, and, in no time they were both chainsmoking. My house smelled like the mens room of a bus station for a month afterwards. Argue all you want the fact still remains I must breathe..you dont need to smoke. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Smoking vs Non Smoking Venues From: Midchuck Date: 22 Jan 01 - 11:17 AM According to Visions, by Michio Kaku, an excellent book I happen to have just read: 1) Cancer kills half a million Americans a year - the second leading cause of death after heart disease; and 2) Thirty per cent of all cancers can be traced to tobacco smoking alone. Ergo: by simple arithmetic, 150,000 Americans a year die from smoking, from cancer alone. One assumes other breathing impairments and heart attacks or strokes brought on by smoking get a bunch more. It's also reasonable to assume that the percentage is higher in countries where more people smoke. Those of you in Britain and elsewhere are shocked by American gun laws, and can't understand why private citizens are allowed to own guns in spite of the fact that a relative few of them use them for purposes detrimental the public peace and safety. Yet you defend, as an absolute right, the practice of people blowing poison gas in other peoples' faces in public places; and rebuke anyone who complains for being unduly rude and fussy. Isn't there an inconsistency here? Peter. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Smoking vs Non Smoking Venues From: Mike Regenstreif Date: 22 Jan 01 - 12:04 PM Peter, Your numbers 1) and 2) need a 3)... 3) Smoking is one of the most significant causes of heart disease (and heart attacks). Mike Regenstreif
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Subject: RE: BS: Smoking vs Non Smoking Venues From: mousethief Date: 22 Jan 01 - 12:14 PM My local venue, the Acoustic Cafe, is both non-smoking and non-alcohol. It is jam-packed at 10pm on a Saturday night. Clinton, how can calling someone a nazi NOT be nasty? I don't know where Tyke is from, but in these parts, most young people do NOT smoke. Everybody has a right to take risks with their own life. Nobody has a "right" to endanger others. Alex |
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Subject: RE: BS: Smoking vs Non Smoking Venues From: GUEST,JohnB Date: 22 Jan 01 - 12:45 PM I expect never to play Carneigie Hall, if I did I do not think they would allow people to smoke. I know people do not smoke in our local Opera House because it is not allowed, I have played there. There are many venues where an isolated room at the back, used for Folk Clubs etc is a Non-Smoking Room. The Tranzac was mentioned and that is a pretty big club. I do not see the problem with a few people (smokers) having to go elsewhere for a quick drag for the general benefit of ALL, including themselves when they return to a relatively clean air environment stinking of smoke. I gave up smoking in about 1976, althogh I seem to remember back then smoking was not allowed inside the room we used for a folk club. JohnB. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Smoking vs Non Smoking Venues From: GUEST,kendall Date: 22 Jan 01 - 12:57 PM How about this idea..All public places must, by federal law, provide access for the handicapped. Well, smokers should have the same right.Just provide them with a shelter so they dont have to go out in the cold and rain. Sooner or later, they will all die off anyway and the shelters can be dismantled. What do you think Bill? Does this make as much sense as your suggestion? By the way, cigarettes dont smoke..People smoke! maybe we should do away with people? It's easy to get silly isn't it? |
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Subject: Nazi's... I hate these guys... From: Clinton Hammond Date: 22 Jan 01 - 01:04 PM That's not the part that I didn't mean as nasty... People who try to control my life tick me off... Especially the ones who think they're right to the exclusion of everyone else! Windsor is full of them, who want all bars and restarants totally non smoking... Everwhere, EXCEPT the precious casinio of course! For them, I have nothing but contempt, nothing but harsh words... And "nazi" is prettly low on the scale...
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