How do you write a tune?

Subject: How do you write a tune?
From: Dunc
Date: 23 Jan 01 - 04:34 PM

I sing unaccompanied songs - many of which I write myself. I do not play a musical instrument and to date I have always 'stolen' tunes from obscure songs of yester year. I am thinking about entering a song writing competition but the tune as well as the words have to be original. What would your best tip be to a non instrumentalist for writing such a tune?

Subject: RE: How do you write a tune?
From: Bert
Date: 23 Jan 01 - 04:39 PM

Well I would modify my stolen tune until it was unrecognizable. But then I'm wicked.

Subject: RE: How do you write a tune?
From: mousethief
Date: 23 Jan 01 - 04:41 PM

My method: you start with a small series of notes, like a descending scale, an ascending scale, ascending a chord, or going up-down-up or something like that. Maybe 3-5 notes. then you fiddle with it and tack on an ending and fiddle with that until it sounds cool. Then you write variations on it for lines 2, 3, and 4.

That's as much as I can describe. Where the series of notes comes from, I don't know. (One begins to understand why the Greeks invented the muses to explain this mysterious origin of "art"!)

Alex

Subject: RE: How do you write a tune?
From: Dunc
Date: 23 Jan 01 - 04:45 PM

I was thinking of getting a friend of mine, who is a fine musician, to write the tune to go with my words, and then split the prize money.

Subject: RE: How do you write a tune?
From: MMario
Date: 23 Jan 01 - 04:48 PM

that would work too.

Subject: RE: How do you write a tune?
From: Bert
Date: 23 Jan 01 - 04:52 PM

I never know where my tunes come from or how. So when I sing a song for the first time I'm always worried that someone will recognize it.

If I do find that a song won't separate from a known tune, I'll either go with the tune or fix it like I said above.

Subject: RE: How do you write a tune?
From: Dunc
Date: 23 Jan 01 - 04:58 PM

I've taken tunes from slow, sad songs and put them to fast, bouncy and funny songs. You can see folk thinking 'I know that from somewhere' but they just can't work it out.

Subject: RE: How do you write a tune?
From: MMario
Date: 23 Jan 01 - 05:08 PM

Most people don't realize that "76 trombones" and "Goodnight , my someone" are the same song - even when they are done as a medley.

Subject: RE: How do you write a tune?
From: GUEST,The Celtic Bard
Date: 23 Jan 01 - 06:33 PM

I wrote over 30 songs before I even started to learn an instrument. To tell you the truth, I don't know where the tunes come from. I guess that's why we had to invent the word inspiration, "breath of heaven," to explain it. Finally I became so frustrated that I couldn't play my own songs and that other people couldn't enjoy them with me singing them that I started to learn an instrument. I now play the pennywhistle and the piano (not very well on both because I'm still learning). I'm now working on writing down my songs on paper. However with over 30 songs in my memory not to mention all the other outside songs that I have memorized, I've started to forget the melodies.

I can't tell you how to write tunes but I will strongly recommend that you learn an instrument. Let me tell you from experience that it helps.

Rebecca <><

Subject: RE: How do you write a tune?
From: cowboypoet
Date: 23 Jan 01 - 07:14 PM

I don't write tunes. 'Swhy I'm a poet. Too bad it isn't a poetry contest. Hey, glad to help (o,-).

Subject: RE: How do you write a tune?
From: Sorcha
Date: 23 Jan 01 - 07:57 PM

I think this is where I am supposed to say--I have no clue. Jeri writes tunes, tho, maybe she will help.

Subject: RE: How do you write a tune?
From: GUEST,CraigS
Date: 23 Jan 01 - 08:39 PM

When you're writing songs, sometimes you get the words and music at once, sometimes you get the tune first and write the words, sometimes the words come first. It is definitely easier to set words to a familiar tune - a technique termed "overwriting" in songwriting circles. This is often because the original tune already has words, and thus has a structure and rhyme scheme which can be followed to some extent. To make the tune "original", people have different methods - You could try starting on the same note, but singing the next four notes in reverse sequence, and repeating similar techniques throughout, for example; changing the tune from major to minor, or vice versa; or changing the time signature (Roger Watson's party piece used to be playing the tune of "Streets of London" in 6/8 time on the melodeon, then asking the audience what tune he'd just played). I have given such material to other songsmiths (but not told them what the original tune was)- if you have someone who could help this way, don't hesitate to try. Don't hesitate to say if you don't like it, either!

Subject: RE: How do you write a tune?
From: Jeri
Date: 23 Jan 01 - 09:08 PM

Sorcha, I haven't responded because I suspect I'm a little bit weird (stop snickering) in the way I write tunes. I use the 10-year-old kid approach to tunes for most songs. I just start singing the lyrics to whatever comes out of my mouth, and keep singing until I get a tune I like and can remember it.

For most tunes (without words) I either keep messing with something in my head until it gels, (sorry - sounds disgusting) or just get in a certain mood and write the notes that seem to fit that mood. As to the first method, I'm one of those annoying people who hums or whistles constantly, but what starts out as a definite tune gets changed a little at a time until it winds up being something completely different. It's sort of like Bert's suggestion about changing a well-known tune. Thing is, I only did it on purpose once. Most of the time it just happens.

Try something like "Three Blind Mice," and try singing a harmony note here and there instead of the melody, or adding extra notes that are harmony notes. Try turning it from major into minor, or try turning a minor tune into one in a major key. The only problem with this is that sooner or later you'll find yourself always recognising one tune in another.

Subject: RE: How do you write a tune?
From: Dunc
Date: 24 Jan 01 - 06:00 AM

Thanks for all your comments. I e-mailed the words of the song to my best friend (a wonderful banjo player - yes there are such creatures) and to my disgust / delight (I'm not sure which) he phoned me in the middle of the night and recorded himself, singing my song, to his tune, on my answering machine. The prize money is as good as in the bag!!!

Subject: RE: How do you write a tune?
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 24 Jan 01 - 06:10 AM

Good luck Dunc.

As for writing tunes, I haven't tried in ages and never have tried where words are involved but if I was just going to write a tune, I would have some idea as to what I wanted, e.g. a jig, set Cakewalk up for that type of tune and just keep messing with a couple of bars of music until some idea came from it. I think once you have got that first idea, it is relatively easy to develop it.

Jon

Subject: RE: How do you write a tune?
From: English Jon
Date: 24 Jan 01 - 06:42 AM

It's more about melodic shape than anything else. At the most basic level, if you can see patterns appearing, it will probably work. For example "Danny Boy", or the ("Londonderry air" if you prefer) is a sequence of repeated patterns, varying slightly as the tune progresses, climaxing neatly 3/4 of the way through before coming to rest back in the low notes.

Music Theory time, You'll probably want to end with a "Perfect Cadence" (when in D major, last two chords will be A (or A7th if you prefer) leading to D. You don't need to know why, trust me it's very dull. Basically any phrase that ends with notes that fit these chords will work as a conclusion.

My best bit of advice is use one simple idea and vary it.

Best of Luck

Jon

Subject: RE: How do you write a tune?
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 24 Jan 01 - 06:57 AM

Hey Jon, does that name imply that I, Shropshire born (although I live in Wales), am not English???? ;-)

Seriously, it is the first time I've seen you post so WELCOME! (and thanks for the good advice).

Jon

Subject: RE: How do you write a tune?
From: KingBrilliant
Date: 24 Jan 01 - 07:38 AM

Would an American Jon be a toilet? {{sorry}}

Kris

Subject: RE: How do you write a tune?
From: English Jon
Date: 24 Jan 01 - 07:42 AM

Jon,

It's what they call me in the Boat-race (pub in cambridge, does giddy irish sessions on a monday night at which I have been known to appear... :) presumably on account of the George cross on my fiddle case (suitably doctored with hammer/sickle motif).

Really, this should go in the Nicknames thread.

Yes I am new to this, I've been lurking for a while now, but work's a bit slow at the minute.

Subject: RE: How do you write a tune?
From: Grab
Date: 24 Jan 01 - 08:14 AM

Jon, I'll have to nip in there sometime and see you! I'm still very amateur, so I only do the folk nights at the Unicorn in Cherry Hinton and the Old Crown in Girton - have you tried either of those?

Grab.

Subject: RE: How do you write a tune?
From: English Jon
Date: 24 Jan 01 - 08:27 AM

Nearly went to the Unicorn for the first time last week. Unfortunately life is all a bit strange at the moment. (Girlfriend bust up/she got me thrown out of my own home etc.) Not a great problem, but it has rather scuppered me for doing the clubs for a week or two. I haven't been to the Old Crown either, Girton's a fair way out . Ever get to the Portland Arms? 2 different clubs, tuesdays/fridays, if memory serves, otherwise there's an irish session on thursdays which I think is currently at Kitty Dumfries on mill road, used to be at the Geldart on sturton st. Be good to see you there. Just need to get some accomodation sorted now...

Cheers, Jon

Subject: RE: How do you write a tune?
From: Mary in Kentucky
Date: 24 Jan 01 - 11:39 AM

Couple of thoughts here from a nonsongwriter:

I could always sing a descant to another song, kinda like Jeri's last idea. Many times the "new" song is prettier than the old one.

I think singing with a guitar encourages following a chord progression as opposed to creating a melody string out of the air. Like Jeri said though (and MMario alluded to) you begin to recognize songs that really have the same chord progression and can be sung together. I think Willie Nelson's songs often sound like various old standards that I know.

I can recognize some composers' music before I know that I'm listening to one of their songs. John Denver used a linear-type chord progression instead of a traditional/folk-type progression. Then I can almost always recognize Beethovan by the basic chords and themes. Also, Ralph Vaughan Williams by the "English sound." I think one reason I love the Scottish music so much is because of modes. (And that opens up a whole new can of worms for you, Dunc!)

Some people take a psalm or poem (the words are already written) and put them to music. ie Biblical Psalms, the poems in Tolkien's books.

One pop song writer said to "Get a hook first, then the song writes itself." He meant (and I forgot his name or his songs, but they were popular): start with a short phrase, words and music, that really makes your statement. Then the rest just adds to that.