What's a Strad, Amati etc fiddle?

Subject: RE: What's a Strad, Amati etc fiddle?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Jan 20 - 08:36 PM

In m'humble the Dvorak concerto is by streets the best concerto written for cello. The version that brings tears to my eyes is the August 21 1968 Proms one which had a Russian orchestra (the USSR State Symphony) and conductor (Svetlanov) with Slava Rostropovich on cello. It was far from the technical best ever but what context: that same day Russian tanks had rolled into Prague, snuffing out Dubcek's Prague Spring. Slava was completely out of sync with the Soviet action and his performance was, to say the least, intense and angry. The concert only went ahead with difficulty, after vociferous protests both inside and outside the hall.

As for the Elgar concerto, I've always thought that, uniquely, a definitive performance was given, the one by Jackie Du Pre and John Barbirolli on record. Nothing I've heard since I first heard that one comes anywhere near, and I get fed of its being severely overplayed on Classic FM.

For a very nice piece which features the cello, try Tchaikovsky's Rococo Variations. Now that isn't played anywhere near enough! (Oh, and those Bach cello suites of course...)

Now back to talking woodwork...!

Subject: RE: What's a Strad, Amati etc fiddle?
From: Hagman
Date: 19 Jan 20 - 11:25 PM

Try the Elgar concerto, Joe. Never fails to amaze.

Subject: RE: What's a Strad, Amati etc fiddle?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 19 Jan 20 - 08:40 PM

Studying a little further, I gather that our cellist's instrument is the only known copy of the “Servais” Stradivarius by Vuillaume ca. 1865. Jean-Baptiste Vuillaume (1798–1875) was a French luthier whose workshop built over 30,000 instruments - and he built over 3,000 instruments himself over a lifetime.
His Wikipedia article says:

Vuillaume was an innovative violin maker and restorer, and a tradesman who traveled all of Europe in search of instruments. Due to this fact, most instruments by the great Italian violin makers passed through his workshop. Vuillaume then made accurate measurements of their dimensions and made copies of them.

He drew his inspiration from two violin makers and their instruments: Antonio Stradivari and his "Le Messie" (Messiah), and Giuseppe Guarneri del Gesù and his "Il Cannone" which belonged to Niccolò Paganini; others such as Maggini, Da Salò and Nicola Amati were also imitated, but to a lesser extent....

When making these copies, Vuillaume always remained faithful to the essential qualities of the instruments he imitated – their thickness, the choice of the woods, and the shape of the arching. The only differences, always the result of a personal decision, were the colour of the varnish, the height of the ribs or the length of the instruments.

His most beautiful violins were often named after the people who owned them (Caraman de Chimay, Cheremetoff, Doria)[

So, the Vuillaume instruments were copies, not forgeries - and they were fine instruments, indeed. The cello was extraordinary last night - deep, rich tones on the low notes and unbelievably clear on the high notes.

Can't say I really liked the Dvorak cello concerto all that much, but it was a good way to show of the cellist and his instrument. I suppose those are two major purposes of concertos. But give me a symphony any old time.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: What's a Strad, Amati etc fiddle?
From: Hagman
Date: 19 Jan 20 - 06:49 PM

Some nice research/info here

Subject: RE: What's a Strad, Amati etc fiddle?
From: Newport Boy
Date: 19 Jan 20 - 06:06 AM

Joe - you need to come to Europe. Last season I heard Ning Feng play in Bath and I'm going to hear him again in Cardiff in June. His biography is here and the last paragraph says:

Ning Feng plays a 1721 Stradivari violin, known as the ‘MacMillan’, on private loan, kindly arranged by Premiere Performances of Hong Kong, and plays on strings by Thomastik-Infeld, Vienna.

Over the past 15 years, I've heard at least a dozen of the great instruments, all of them on loan to top performers.

BTW, Ning Feng's encore solo in Bath was Ricci's transcription for violin of Recerdos de la Alhambra by Tarrega.

Phil

Subject: RE: What's a Strad, Amati etc fiddle?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 19 Jan 20 - 02:40 AM

OK, so did I hear a Strad, or a copy of a Strad?
The cellist was Amit Peled.
http://www.amitpeled.com/biography

Raised on a kibbutz in Israel, Amit Peled began playing the cello at age 10. He lives in Baltimore, Maryland with his wife and children and now performs on the only known copy of the “Servais” Stradivarius by Vuillaume ca. 1865.

Subject: RE: What's a Strad, Amati etc fiddle?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 19 Jan 20 - 02:31 AM

Our local symphony did the Dvorak Cello concerto this evening. The soloist played the Servais Stradivarius. I'm wondering if this is the most precious musical instrument I will ever hear. It was a real thrill to hear it.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrien-Fran%C3%A7ois_Servais

Subject: RE: What's a Strad, Amati etc fiddle?
From: Mark Ross
Date: 27 Sep 15 - 02:02 PM

Here's some film from YouTube (a short piece, around 14 minutes from les Blank) of Tommy Jarrell playing a genuine Strad at the Library of Congress. It doesn't sound like a strad, it sounds like Tommy Jarrell. It's the player not the instrument. There was recently a double blind test of great violinists playing different instruments. they coldn't agree as to what was better the old ones or the modrn copies.

My Old Fiddle


Mark Ross

Subject: RE: What's a Strad, Amati etc fiddle?
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Sep 15 - 12:59 AM

I have Jacobus stainer in obsom prope onilpon

tom 17and littly65 made in Czechs love orig a Violion marled in thaleabbel tel details

Subject: RE: What's a Strad, Amati etc fiddle?
From: Mark Clark
Date: 05 Jul 09 - 12:38 PM

As I recall, Kenny Baker's main fiddle is an origial Stainer. He bought it for a song (less than $100) many years ago.

      - Mark

Subject: RE: What's a Strad, Amati etc fiddle?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 04 Jul 09 - 05:55 PM

Are there fiddle players who actually use a Stradivarius or Amati violin, or are the ancient and noble violins used only by classical musicians?
-Joe-

Subject: RE: What's a Strad, Amati etc fiddle?
From: GUEST,maloar
Date: 28 Apr 09 - 03:30 PM

Hy!I have a fiddle Amati. If somebody can told me where can i sold it (an how much is aprox. an amati fiddle)... please contact me: [e-mail]   Thanks

Subject: RE: What's a Strad, Amati etc fiddle?
From: GUEST,guest2
Date: 22 Mar 08 - 09:07 PM

I also have one of his celebrated conservatory violin marked berlin 1893, can't say it sounds so rare anymore.

Subject: RE: What's a Strad, Amati etc fiddle?
From: GUEST,thurg
Date: 22 Nov 06 - 07:20 PM

Okay, I might as well join the party. My fiddle has the name LOWENDALL'S CELEBRATED CONSERVATORY VIOLIN. stamped on the head. Inside label give 1893 as year it was made; Berlin the place. Anyone know anything about Louis Lowendall? Any chance he's going to come looking for his Celebrated Conservatory Violin?

Subject: RE: What's a Strad, Amati etc fiddle?
From: Mo the caller
Date: 22 Nov 06 - 11:17 AM

Kim C said ".....me not knowing how to play up there. My teacher said that's the weakest part of the instrument... "

Sounds like the comment that the part of a car that's most often faulty is the nut behind the wheel!

Subject: RE: What's a Strad, Amati etc fiddle?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 22 Nov 06 - 08:47 AM

Many 'copies' have been made - of varying quality - using the shapes and often thickness and shaping measurements of famous old violins.

Mr Llellwyn - who was well know in Aussie circles at one time, had templates made from genuine Strads - his grandsons still have those. He made some istruments which have 'turned out nice' and are still highly valued, due to their tone and playability - due to his careful workmanship.

Subject: RE: What's a Strad, Amati etc fiddle?
From: Sorcha
Date: 22 Nov 06 - 07:31 AM

Means its a Strad MODEL and probably not worth much money. If it sounds nice, enjoy it for the family treasure it is.

Subject: RE: What's a Strad, Amati etc fiddle?
From: Scrump
Date: 22 Nov 06 - 06:16 AM

Stradavarious? It sounds like a fake to me, like those "Rollex" watches :-)

Subject: Antonio Stradavariou violin
From: GUEST,Jody
Date: 21 Nov 06 - 08:35 PM

we have an old violin that reads antonio stradavarious, made in czechoslovakia. It was my husband's grandmother's who was born in 1900. We were wondering if it is of any value.

Subject: RE: What's a Strad, Amati etc fiddle?
From: Sorcha
Date: 18 Oct 06 - 12:12 PM

And how they sound has NO bearing on the value. It's all in who made it, when, and where.

Subject: RE: What's a Strad, Amati etc fiddle?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 18 Oct 06 - 10:11 AM

Yes treewind

a modest well made instrument by an unknown maker that is in good shape, and that plays and sounds well, is worth more than a 'name' one that is in bad condition - unless it is for 'display'.

Subject: RE: What's a Strad, Amati etc fiddle?
From: treewind
Date: 18 Oct 06 - 05:07 AM

The only way to value a violin is to take it to an expert. They won't take much notice of labels, they'll looks at the type of wood used, quality of construction, and check various alignments for distortion and warping.

Anahata

Subject: RE: What's a Strad, Amati etc fiddle?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 17 Oct 06 - 10:07 PM

Also allegedly the wood had been stored in the water for years - it was drifted down river and stored until sold.

Subject: RE: What's a Strad, Amati etc fiddle?
From: frogprince
Date: 17 Oct 06 - 09:45 PM

"a 200 yo copy strad would sound as good as a real strad if it was a real copy and made of similar wood and dimensions"

I wish I could cite the source for this now, but a few years ago I read an article by someone who surmised that Stradivarius used wood salvaged from construction beams that were already centuries old.

Subject: RE: What's a Strad, Amati etc fiddle?
From: Sorcha
Date: 17 Oct 06 - 05:19 PM

Nowhere near enough info....where are you, do you know how granfer got it, and I doubt you will ever find out much. Too many 'home luthiers' out there.

Subject: RE: What's a Strad, Amati etc fiddle?
From: GUEST,Judy Maloney
Date: 17 Oct 06 - 04:38 PM

I have a violin that belonged to my grandfather and I need some information on it, please. On the back are the initials 'F.R.'with a star above the initials. There are no labels on the inside. Any help would be appreciated.

Subject: RE: What's a Strad, Amati etc fiddle?
From: freda underhill
Date: 31 Dec 04 - 11:50 PM

for anyone interested in getting a beautifully made violin, its worth checking out Graham Caldersmith's site at Graham Caldersmith Caldersmith

www.luth.org/calder/

the sound is beautiful, violins are made individually on commission and he has sold to some of the world's great violinists.

graham is an Australian scientist and music lover. he has applied his understanding of physics to guitar and violin making. he is a very talented instrument maker and has published over 30 papers in various respected journals concerning music, lutherie, and his accumulated physics-acoustical research.

Subject: RE: What's a Strad, Amati etc fiddle?
From: Pauline L
Date: 31 Dec 04 - 10:21 PM

If I had $1 for each post I've seen by someone who wonders whether their cheap violin is really a Strad, I could buy myself a fine fiddle. :-)

Subject: RE: What's a Strad, Amati etc fiddle?
From: Pauline L
Date: 31 Dec 04 - 10:17 PM

I've seen so many posts on so many sites by people who wonder whether that cheap violin they got at a pawn shop or yard sale or their grandmother's attic might really be a Strad. The answer is NO!!! In your dreams! BTW, a real Strad would be worth considerably more than $1K, more like a few $100K. For $1K, you can get a violin which is better than student grade, but nowhere near as good as one played by a professional in a symphony orchestra, which would probably be worth $50-100K.

Subject: RE: What's a Strad, Amati etc fiddle?
From: Sorcha
Date: 31 Dec 04 - 12:16 AM

Lable means it is a copy of a Strad originally made in 1620. Loads and tons of these copies out there....depends on where and when and by whom it was really made by. The sound has NO bearing on value, just the above. I have a Strad copy, machine made by Lyon and Healy in Chicago, US in the 1920's....moneytary value...NONE. Sentimental value....irreplaceable.

Subject: RE: What's a Strad, Amati etc fiddle?
From: GUEST,michele
Date: 30 Dec 04 - 11:58 PM

i was given a strad violin by my family the marking say

copie de antonius stradiuarius
facie anno 1620

could you please let me know a little about it and the cost value

Subject: RE: What's a Strad, Amati etc fiddle?
From: GUEST,suz
Date: 06 Nov 04 - 12:40 PM

I used to play my grandfather's violin...alas many years have past..and by just counting those years my violin is atleast 100 years old..inside it says antonio stradavarious 1734..what have I got? a $100 violin or a $1000 violin..any guesses? where can I get it appraised by a reputable appraiser...denver area??

very good shape..need new strings..hard varnish I think keeps it intact and coolish place..

Subject: RE: What's a Strad, Amati etc fiddle?
From: GUEST,Eric
Date: 19 Oct 04 - 04:17 AM

Treewind hit the nail on the head about wood from germany.

All the ebony is found from germany, been sitting around for ages.All the best woods wether maple, fiddle back ect all comes from germany.

I found a violin maker here in australia a while back with ebony that was 100 yo.I bought his last 6 planks , each blank only big enough for 1 guitar finger board , he gave me a discount price of $200 each if i bought the 6.
Bargain, you cannot buy ebony that old.The ebony fingerboard on an old strad is probally the most important piece of the violin, it is irriplaceable.The rest of the body could be repaired.
Once you have worked with 100 yo ebony or older you will know what i mean.
A true violinist will pay big bucks for old instruments on the age of the instrument, the older the violin, the better it should sound.
Theoredically, a 200 yo copy strad would sound as good as a real strad if it was a real copy and made of similar wood and dimensions.
I have a strad copy, it says its a copy, but there is no made in germany or the likes.I know it is hand made by all the mistakes, it sounds fantastic as well.
The only way to tell is to have the wood tested for age, you may find your 200 yo copy would also be worth big bucks.
I know a 1719 yo strad sold for $16 million recently, id be real happy if my copy, which may be as old was worth $100,000.00
and im betting a true violinist would pay that for a 200yo strad copy.
Any takers :)

Subject: RE: What's a Strad, Amati etc fiddle?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 16 Oct 04 - 11:13 AM

Supposedly one of the secrets of the old instruments, was that firstly the timber was floated down the river (for transport), then often stored in the water for a while, then kept for many years to season BEFORE the instrument was made.

Subject: RE: What's a Strad, Amati etc fiddle?
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 15 Oct 04 - 11:26 PM

Isn't the true test of the difference between a violin and a fiddle that nobody gets annoyed if you spill beer on a fiddle?

Subject: RE: What's a Strad, Amati etc fiddle?
From: treewind
Date: 15 Oct 04 - 09:39 AM

Getting good wood certainly isn't easy. I know a violin maker who lives close to me here in East Anglia (England) and he goes to Germany to buy his wood.

Anahata

Subject: RE: What's a Strad, Amati etc fiddle?
From: GUEST,Eric
Date: 15 Oct 04 - 01:50 AM

About a strad.A genuine strad is actually crudly made.There is a violin making school in italy and it is said if someone was to make an exact copy of a strad he would fail.A genuine strad is not perfect in shape, it may have some flat spots in the body ect.A handmade instrument maker never makes the exact samething twice.I should know, i hand make guitars, everything by hand, and no 2 guitars are the same, there is always a difference no matter how small it is.For anyone out there who has a strad, or think they have, if it is perfect in shape ect, it probally isnt a strad, if it has mistakes , it may well be.For all those experts out there with their comments on sound, reason why old strads ect sound so good, is because of the wood.You cant get 200yo wood these days, as the wood ages, it sounds better.Thats the secret, old wood!!

Subject: RE: What's a Strad, Amati etc fiddle?
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 04 Sep 04 - 07:48 PM

PS, David Brown, you might take a look at this page from the National Music Museum website (an outstanding reference mentioned above, back in 2001, by Margaret V) for an explanation of why so many people have "Stradivarius" violins in their attics. It may also give you some leads on how to find out more about your instrument.

Aloha,
Mark

Subject: RE: What's a Strad, Amati etc fiddle?
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 04 Sep 04 - 06:02 PM

Just in case Lucius is still listening, he won't find much on PDQ Bach at the University of South Dakota. The school he wants is the University of Southern North Dakota at Hoople.

Aloha,
Mark

Subject: RE: What's a Strad, Amati etc fiddle?
From:
Date: 04 Sep 04 - 05:39 PM

I have recently aquired a tatty looking violin. I live in Nottingham England and wonder if anbody can tell me anymore about it.
The violin has a label inside reading Antonious Stradivarious Cremonensis faciebat anno 1713 and was made in czechoslovakia - on the label is a picture of a lion with the word Agnalone underneath.
another name apearing on the violin reads dresden and my violin is stamped with the number 249 on the head.

Subject: RE: What's a Strad, Amati etc fiddle?
From:
Date: 23 Aug 04 - 10:02 PM

I have a violin that was my grandfathers. He brought it with him from Denmark in 1944 or 45. He said it was his mom's. It had a paper tag in it when I was young but is gone. I have just noticed it has an A and an S inscribed on the center of the fingerboard. has anyone heard of this. I can't find anything about this on the net.

Subject: RE: What's a Strad, Amati etc fiddle?
From: Mark Ross
Date: 13 Jul 04 - 12:50 PM

Thanks, Marion

Mark Ross

Subject: RE: What's a Strad, Amati etc fiddle?
From: Marion
Date: 13 Jul 04 - 11:34 AM

Mark, I'd suggest starting another thread called "Who's Henry Olson?" - your chances of somebody answering would be greater.

Marion

Subject: RE: What's a Strad, Amati etc fiddle?
From: Mark Ross
Date: 13 Jul 04 - 11:14 AM

I picked up a fiddle last year at the local flea market. Stamped inside it said HENRY OLSON, FEBRUARY 5, 1935. A local luthier(David Gusset, who made Alisdair Fraser's instrument)fixed it up for me, and it sounds great! Now, I'm trying to find out more about Olson.
Utah Phillips told me that when he used to hang out at Weiser during the contest, at the sessions, someone would say, "Here's a Henry Olson tune." Anybody out there know anything about him? I've been trying to get the skinny on him since I got the fiddle. Help!

Mark Ross

Subject: RE: What's a Strad, Amati etc fiddle?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 13 Jul 04 - 09:22 AM

Just because the instrument has one of thefamous names on it, it need not be an original. Many copies were made. You will need to find a competent authority - probably a maker/repairer of instruments - who really knows what they are talking about. Since you didn't say where you were, we can't help much more than that.

Robin

Subject: RE: What's a Strad, Amati etc fiddle?
From:
Date: 13 Jul 04 - 05:54 AM

I have a violin that my grandfather had since around 1917 that has a label ended with a circle surrounding a + sign under which is the initials AS. The rest of the label Antonius Stradiuarius Cremonensis Faciebat Anno 1713, followed by said cirle stamp. How do I find if this violin is authentic?

Subject: RE: What's a strad? Markings for authenticity?
From: GUEST,Eric
Date: 29 Dec 03 - 07:29 AM

Had a violin in the family for ages, recently only took interest and noticed a few things about it. Firstly, it seems to be of great vintage which kinda gets you thinking about its markings
1. 'Stradavarius Concert Violin' stamped on underside of neck towards tuning pegs. Kinda hard to read as it has been branded.
2. No paper on inside stating brand or make.
3. Under the fingerboard there seems to be a serial number
marked/etched VIII.
4. The overall features, wood texture and colours (despite looking old)matches what strads are supposed to look like.

Subject: RE: What's a Strad, Amati etc fiddle?
From: fiddler
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 08:48 AM

Hmm...

When I'm not anoraking here I also anorak on violin things too!

It is amazing how many people think they have found a Strad in the roof!

I've held an Amati in my hands - it was in pieces in a shoe box waiting to be re built! But still a thrill - I need to get out more.

The strength of a good fiddle is you can play it and it sounds nice (good) to you and those around you - fit for purpose. There are some bad Strads out there which you never hear of - so I'm told.


They were / are not made to be valuable but to be played.

Sorchg girl you seem to have a bigger (and sexier) anorak than mine - nice one. I hope loads of people read this thread it contains some good stuff.

Off now - lunchtime - back to the grind.....see real anorak!!!!

A

Subject: RE: What's a Strad, Amati etc fiddle?
From: treewind
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 07:36 AM

I think it's a shame that valuable instruments find their way into museums if it means they don't get played any more. (ditto private collections, which happens a lot too)

Most Strads, Amatis, Guarneri etc. are superb instruments, even though there is a huge markup for the name. A friend who is a violin maker went to one of the London auction houses recently to look at one (a Guarneri I think). He has a photo of himself holding nearly a million pounds worth of instrument. They let him play it too, and he says it really was lovely to play. He had a genuine reason for the visit - to take detailed photos for his own work. Makers can learn a lot by studying good instruments closely, and deliberately copying them is a common and respectable way of improving their own craft.

My cello is unlabelled, but I'm told it was made by Fent. It seems likely that Fent was a London based maker at a time when many English violin makers were turning out really excellent work, but none of their names have quite the same price on them, which is a good thing because it means you can get good instruments to play at a more realistic price.

Anahata

Subject: RE: What's a Strad, Amati etc fiddle?
From: GUEST,pavane
Date: 09 Dec 03 - 07:47 AM

I also remember reading that Stradivarius wrote that you must NOT soak the wood - possibly in attempt to keep his methods secret.