Technical Help: Setting up sound

Subject: Technical Help: Setting up sound
From: DonMeixner
Date: 03 Feb 01 - 02:01 AM

When ever my band does a sound check it seems to me that we are doing it for the first time everytime. We've been at it nearly thirty years. Should the dynamic balance between voice and instruments be equal or more voice than instrument, or the otherway about? Should the nstruments be louder based on the theory that you can always play them softer there by having the volume to move into if you need more power in the guitar. How loud is too loud in the room? Should the people in the front be able to easily chat while we play or should we take the attitude, "We are here to play for you, shut up and pay attention." Lately the Mari-Celtic Rockers that have been coming into central New York seem to use a balance that is Men Yelling with Drums. This volume issue also seems to do away with much of the melody, Ever hear "I'se the By" sung in a 2 note range drums and bass only? Then you know what I mean.

Don

Subject: RE: Technical Help: Setting up sound
From: georgetownboy
Date: 03 Feb 01 - 10:39 AM

It sounds like you don't have a profssional "sound man". When these sound checks are being run, are the peopole doing the checking at various places throughout the auditorium or theatre? Go out there yourself and listen to a few numbers and see howit sounds to you. Of course, there are instruments to record the sound level at any point, but nothignbeats your ear, wh aren't youusing it after 30 years yet.

Subject: RE: Technical Help: Setting up sound
From: GUEST,Pekay
Date: 03 Feb 01 - 01:02 PM

Don I, too, have been giggin' for more than 30 years. Your question seems to cut through the years of "what does the audience want or expect?" Certainly its an ever changing situation. As a former studio engineer, My feelings are that each song may have a different mix. The vocals usually stay in the forefront, but that should be varied. Such as when going from vocals to a lead, obviously the lead will be potted up as the vocals dimish, but how much above intruments a vocal needs to be is truly up to the performer. The previous poster states the need for a sound man. Luxury not always feasible on musicians pay. I've also found few sound men who know both the technical side and the sensitivity to mix. Just like our job is to constantly change emotional pitch (entertainment) the support (lights/audio) also gotta play a role in affecting the listeners. The best at this was the Moody Blues. Find an old reording of On the threshhold of a Dream or In Search of the Lost Chord and listen to them through headphones. The mix was as much a part of the arrangement as the vocals and instruments. As for volume and table talk, I've always thought it my job to entertain these people so well that they don't want to talk to each other. Of course there are always jerks that don't understand the reason of LISTENING. Turn it up 'til you're told to ease it down. Change volume levels often during the gig. Use everything in your arsenal to move the audience. Ever thought about the word audience? Latin, means "listeners"! pekay

Subject: RE: Technical Help: Setting up sound
From: DonMeixner
Date: 03 Feb 01 - 02:09 PM

Thanks guys, more info for you. We are four musicians and a drummer, ( Couldn't help myself there :-) Guitar, Banjo, bass, fiddle and drums. We almost always supply our own sound and we have no sound guy. All our instruments have their own channels and they are run through the PA board. No seperate instrument amps. We have a stereo board and use one side for the fron end and the other for monitors. We have three vocal channels covering a solid tenor, an upper range baritone and a lower range baritone. The bass player has a wireless hook up for the bass, The other guitarist is also wireless both in the instrument and in vocals, I am on guitar and banjo and am not wireless.

Does the wireless pick send a hotter mix to the board or does it need more power at the board?

How much of balance in the room changes as the population of the room changes?

In anyones opinion is it better to hear the mix that goes out front or just enough in monitor to hear your instruments and be able to sing according to the the keys played?

Thanks again

Don

Subject: RE: Technical Help: Setting up sound
From: GUEST,pk
Date: 03 Feb 01 - 03:24 PM

With the number and variety of your band, mixing becomes more difficult and more critical. It may be time to get a sound man. For instance, when you switch from guitar to banjo, the volume change is stark! and must be brought down immediately on the banjo. A sound man is a blessing when you don't have to worry about anything but the gig. The addition of a drummer to your musicians seems to indicate that its going to be relatively loud anyway. (know how to tell there's a drummer at your door?.....The knocking gets louder and faster!) The drummer also makes a simple mix more difficult. The use of wireless shouldn't be of any concern. Like different mic's, each will have a different volume when on the same mark on the mix board, just learn the 'signature' of each mic and set your board hotter or cooler for each. The only variable there should be the charg on the battery and the battery's ability to hold a steady constant output. Avoid cheap wireless mic's, the battery packs are usually poor quality and may even fluctuate during use. Again, a soundman would be great for handling such a diverse group of instruments, voices and electronics. If a soundman is out of the question, then perhaps standardizing mic's and systems would give you a better chance of doig quadruple duty as a vocal, guitr, banjo, and mixdown. Sounds like you've been too busy! pk

Subject: RE: Technical Help: Setting up sound
From: Mark Clark
Date: 03 Feb 01 - 03:47 PM

Don, Without roadies and a sound engineer you must rely on band members themselves to balance the sound as they play. You can set the mic levels before the gig so that each instrument could achieve the maximum desired volume but below the feedback level. That's about as much as you can do with mic levels. What you really nead is monitors. These can be monitor speakers or the modern wireless earpieces they're using today. This will allow each musician to hear his or her own level with respect to the group. As long as you have general agreement on the desired agrigate sound, you'll be fine. Players who are too soft can lean into the mic while other can move away if needed. If you're using electric instruments and micing amps they'll need to adjust their instrument controls as they go.

Early bluegrass bands used to record and perform around a single omnidirectional microphone. They developed an elaborate correography around the mic to balance the sound and bring the lead instruments up for their solos.

Good luck,

      - Mark

Subject: RE: Technical Help: Setting up sound
From: Mark Clark
Date: 03 Feb 01 - 04:13 PM

Geez, I really knead to pruf these more offen.