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BS: Anyone know where berets come from?
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Subject: BS: Anyone know where berets come from? From: Peter T. Date: 06 Feb 01 - 10:22 AM Of course, France. But can anyone tell me where in France (or if in France?) they originated? A friend tells me that they are adaptations of the Phrygian liberty caps of the French Revolution; someone else tells me that they come from Breton fishermen; a third says that he thinks they are Swiss. In my continuing effort to show that no question can faze the Mudcat Encyclopaedists. yours, Peter T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone know where berets come from? From: SINSULL Date: 06 Feb 01 - 10:27 AM Hat factory? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone know where berets come from? From: Malcolm Douglas Date: 06 Feb 01 - 10:30 AM I have no idea as to the ultimate origin, but I can tell you that there are two distinct styles of beret; the relatively small one that's worn throughout France (including Brittany) and the beret basque, which is much bigger and more common in the south, particularly in the French Basque country. Malcolm |
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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone know where berets come from? From: MMario Date: 06 Feb 01 - 10:34 AM history url=http://victorian.fortunecity.com/coldwater/428/beret-fr.html |
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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone know where berets come from? From: Giac Date: 06 Feb 01 - 10:56 AM Sheesh! For 60 years I have struggled along in abject ignorance on the subject of berets. I am chagrined to realize the depth of that ignorance. Once again, I am richer for having stumbled into a Mudcat fountain of information. ~;o) Actually, that's an entertaining site, MMario, thanks. Giac (or, Jacques - wandering off to rummage through a box to find a beret to wear fishing) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone know where berets come from? From: Peter T. Date: 06 Feb 01 - 11:01 AM I had no idea this was such a good question!! That site is very interesting, but essentially gives it a Gallic shrug as to its origins. yours, Peter T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone know where berets come from? From: MMario Date: 06 Feb 01 - 11:03 AM well - it does take it back as far as the 1300's - which is pretty good. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone know where berets come from? From: Noreen Date: 06 Feb 01 - 11:06 AM < a href=http://www.fortunecity.com/classification/topsites/Mature_Themes/Fetish/top5.html>Basque beret http://www.fortunecity.com/classification/topsites/Mature_Themes/Fetish/top5.html for some odd reason... LOL Noreen |
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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone know where berets come from? From: Noreen Date: 06 Feb 01 - 11:10 AM Oh poo, try again:< a href=http://www.fortunecity.com/classification/topsites/Mature_Themes/Fetish/top5.html>Basque beret The look on his face may explain the interesting address... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone know where berets come from? From: Noreen Date: 06 Feb 01 - 11:12 AM And again:Basque beret |
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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone know where berets come from? From: Lady McMoo Date: 06 Feb 01 - 11:22 AM As far as I am aware the traditional headgear of fishermen from Brittany and Normandy is a navy blue peaked cap rather than a beret. Sorry I can't help with the origins of the beret itself. mcmoo |
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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone know where berets come from? From: Noreen Date: 06 Feb 01 - 11:23 AM |
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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone know where berets come from? From: GUEST,Roger the skiffler Date: 06 Feb 01 - 11:28 AM Is the tam o'shanter the consequence of the auld alliance? Did it come from France as a variant of the beret or to France from Scotland? Armies the world over seem to have adopted the beret worn square on with one side pulled down, rather than in the French mode, since ( guess) some time after WWI? RtS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone know where berets come from? From: catspaw49 Date: 06 Feb 01 - 11:33 AM Ya' know, until Peter asked this, I had never given a first thought, let alone a second one, to this question. This again shows how shallow my mind really is and its frightening to gain such a self-realization. Then again, until just a very few moments ago, I had never given much thought to coprolite. Now I am wondering what the biggest piece of coprolite is from and where was it found. Conversely, how small are the smallest pieces found and are they from one animal or fractured coprolite from a larger creature? Good info so far on the beret question....lots of it too. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone know where berets come from? From: MMario Date: 06 Feb 01 - 11:38 AM I can answer part of that, 'spaw. the smallest coprilites are powdered - and you can actually buy the powder |
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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone know where berets come from? From: Lady McMoo Date: 06 Feb 01 - 11:38 AM If you are so interested in coprolites 'Spaw, I can give you the name of a friend of mine who has a PhD in them and was pictured on the cover of "New Scientist" a few years ago displaying a very large one indeed (coprolite that is). Don't know if it was the worlds biggest though. I'll ask if you like. mcmoo |
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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone know where berets come from? From: Noreen Date: 06 Feb 01 - 11:42 AM I've just realised, Peter, that there are basques and Basques... ROTFLMAO! Noreen |
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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone know where berets come from? From: Mrrzy Date: 06 Feb 01 - 11:43 AM The beret is definitely basque, and I'll have to check out that site now, having stated that... FYI, I recommend a book called The World History of the Basque. Fascinating stuff about a people who have never had a nation... while remaining a people anyway. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone know where berets come from? From: Peter T. Date: 06 Feb 01 - 12:18 PM spaw, you keep your shit out of this thread!!!! French cowboy song: Beret me not on the lone prairie.... yours, Peter T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone know where berets come from? From: catspaw49 Date: 06 Feb 01 - 12:20 PM (it was Sinsull's fault) Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone know where berets come from? From: LR Mole Date: 06 Feb 01 - 12:41 PM Berets 'n' bran is good if you're copra heavy... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone know where berets come from? From: kimmers Date: 06 Feb 01 - 12:50 PM So, how is one supposed to wear one's baggy Basque beret? I adore mine -- keeps my head warm and doesn't blow off in the wind. But I do like it rakishly pulled to one side. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone know where berets come from? From: bill\sables Date: 06 Feb 01 - 02:07 PM What about the theory of the Frenchman whose hat blew off in a strong wind and landed in a field full of cattle. He tried about forty beret's before he found his own. Bill |
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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone know where berets come from? From: Uncle_DaveO Date: 06 Feb 01 - 02:17 PM Mrzzy said: "FYI, I recommend a book called The World History of the Basque. Fascinating stuff about a people who have never had a nation... while remaining a people anyway." A quibble with you: They ARE a nation; they have not had a State. Dave Oesterreich
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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone know where berets come from? From: SINSULL Date: 06 Feb 01 - 05:40 PM Bill - Spaw was already warned to keep shit out of this thread. Now you are back to it. Will you blame me too? Or stand up like a man and declare your return to the "toilet thread"? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone know where berets come from? From: mousethief Date: 06 Feb 01 - 05:43 PM No cattle left in France. The government has killed them all. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone know where berets come from? From: Kara Date: 06 Feb 01 - 05:46 PM As a resident of central Brittany I can inform you that you do not see a lot of them around here. Fro trad dancind they favour a blackboater with nice long ribbons attached. Maybe Berets are more common in the strippy Jumper parts of Brittany??? Kara |
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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone know where berets come from? From: catspaw49 Date: 06 Feb 01 - 05:54 PM Gee Kara, I really wouldn't think you could get an African-American seaman to sit on your head for any length of time at all, with or without ribbons. Plus, you'd have to have a real strong neck............... Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone know where berets come from? From: Wolfgang Date: 07 Feb 01 - 04:05 AM Here's the page of a museum of berets. Wolfgang |
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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone know where berets come from? From: wes.w Date: 07 Feb 01 - 08:53 AM Kimmers! Immediately put your txapela (Basque for beret) straight. No Euskaldun (Basque) worth their salt would be seen with his txapela askew. So revered is this hat (which also comes in red for Sunday Best and special occasions) in the Basque lands, that their word for Champion is 'Txapeldun' - 'the one with the beret'. If anyone here is in the West of England, can I put a plug in for Elhea, a Basque choir who are visiting Somerset in May. You might see a few real berets! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone know where berets come from? From: M.Ted Date: 07 Feb 01 - 01:20 PM From the website of the beret museum, courtesy of babelfish translation: "Create by l'entreprise Blancq Olibet (manufacturer of berets since several generations), this museum makes it possible to discover all l?histoire and the secrecies d?un principal symbols of the Western South. L?*©pop*©e of the beret seems to begin dice XV*®me century. This noble cover-chief was knitted with wood needles. Aujourd?hui technology is with the service of the manufacture of the beret, of which the sizes, the colors n?ont ceased d?*©voluer with the liking of the modes, the areas, the times. This accessory of mode crossed the centuries and was carried by characters such as Greta Garbo, the Montgomery General or l?Abb*© Pierre. The museum occupies the 2 stages d?un beautiful building " Directory " in edge of river, to 20 km in the south of Pau in the Pyrenees." We lived in Naples during the 50's, and the beret was very common, though it was the narrow beret, and not the floppy Basque rendition. As far as I know, the Italians did not feel that what they were wearing was a French hat. My father wore one for years (though in recent years he has gravitated to a chauffeur's cap). I dug though a box of old hats and found that all of his old berets were made in Italy. The Italian word is berretto, which is generally translated as "cap", instead of hat, although "cap" is considered to be a truncation of "Capello" which is the Italian word for hat (which just shows how pointless is probably is to try and figure any of this out anyway). Of course, it is the same word as the French use. I rarely see berets in France, and when I spot one, I generally point it out to my wife, who has learned to tolerate such things. I see more of them in the winter, usually on old men who have not shaved in several days and are reading rumpled newspapers. I actually tried to buy a beret once, to take it back to give to my father for Christmas, but it turns out that it is much easier to find them in the States-- A couple of years ago, in the middle of a rain storm in San Francisco, I actually bought and immediately wore, a beret. I got it from an Italian gift shop and for the rest of the day, wherever I went, I got a special sort of respect.
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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone know where berets come from? From: wes.w Date: 08 Feb 01 - 07:59 AM M.Ted.... You can't have been to the French Basque provinces, where almost every other shop has a souvenir rack which carries 'Basque Berets' for 20/30 Francs. Not of the best quality though! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone know where berets come from? From: GUEST,Fibula Mattock Date: 08 Feb 01 - 08:02 AM Berets? they grow on trees, surely. (Hmmm, I can't believe no one's done that pun yet.) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone know where berets come from? From: nutty Date: 08 Feb 01 - 09:03 AM Noreen , I love the "faux pas" - much more fun than the rest of the thread (IMMHO) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone know where berets come from? From: Murray MacLeod Date: 08 Feb 01 - 09:17 AM Roger the Skiffler, you got it right, the beret (like every other great fashion idea) is of Scottish origin and was nicked by the French. I refer you to the song recorded by the late great Belle Stewart, "The Beret Fields of Blair" Murray |
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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone know where berets come from? From: wes.w Date: 08 Feb 01 - 09:44 AM or even perhaps "Beret my heart in the Highlands" ? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone know where berets come from? From: Noreen Date: 08 Feb 01 - 10:22 AM ...or Beret me not on the lone prairie...P>Shucks, nutty- thought no-one had noticed... *LOL* Noreen |
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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone know where berets come from? From: KingBrilliant Date: 08 Feb 01 - 10:33 AM Berets come from your head, of course Kris |
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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone know where berets come from? From: M.Ted Date: 08 Feb 01 - 01:56 PM Wes--There are no French Basque provinces, there are only Basque provinces--or haven't you followed up any of the links? You are right of course, I have not been(maybe next trip), but that would have been the big, floppy beret, anyway. Though it would be cool to wear it with the red neckerchief and white shirt, al la Tyrone Power and company, in "The Sun Also Rises"--that wasn't even in France, though(but they do the running of the bulls in France, as well as the bull fighting, and they do cook fish in that Olive, garlic, and tomato sauce) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone know where berets come from? From: Art Thieme Date: 09 Feb 01 - 02:52 AM Obviously, to me anyway, "b'rays" or "brays" (original spelling from antiquity) come from jackasses. Art Thieme |
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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone know where berets come from? From: wes.w Date: 09 Feb 01 - 09:17 AM M.Ted I know exactly what you mean, and strictly I'm in error, but its difficult to toe the line between political correctness and writing something that most people will understand. I knew very little about the Basques before I went there, but I now have many (singing!) Basque friends. I'd also not want to use this thread as a political platform. Its about hats, surely?. Market day especially brings a sea of berets out, but they are always visible, usually accompanied by a dangling cigarette, just outside the pelotta court. So here are two Basque Beret sayings, and a Beret Toast. Bururik ez duenak, txapel beharrik ez
"Those without heads don't need berets."
i.e. Long life! |