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do I need a vibrator?

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GUEST,wanna warble 08 Feb 01 - 07:55 PM
GUEST,re: Singing... 08 Feb 01 - 08:00 PM
katlaughing 08 Feb 01 - 08:04 PM
sophocleese 08 Feb 01 - 08:08 PM
McGrath of Harlow 08 Feb 01 - 08:08 PM
Little Hawk 08 Feb 01 - 08:13 PM
sophocleese 08 Feb 01 - 08:19 PM
ddw 08 Feb 01 - 08:22 PM
sophocleese 08 Feb 01 - 08:22 PM
hesperis 08 Feb 01 - 08:30 PM
GUEST,wanna warble 08 Feb 01 - 08:34 PM
hesperis 08 Feb 01 - 08:35 PM
Matt_R 08 Feb 01 - 08:38 PM
sophocleese 08 Feb 01 - 08:48 PM
Mrrzy 08 Feb 01 - 08:50 PM
GUEST,wanna warble 08 Feb 01 - 09:05 PM
Lox 08 Feb 01 - 09:18 PM
catspaw49 08 Feb 01 - 09:23 PM
mkebenn 08 Feb 01 - 10:30 PM
Matt_R 08 Feb 01 - 10:39 PM
catspaw49 08 Feb 01 - 10:45 PM
Bugsy 08 Feb 01 - 10:46 PM
Matt_R 08 Feb 01 - 11:00 PM
Alice 09 Feb 01 - 12:14 AM
Amos 09 Feb 01 - 12:27 AM
alison 09 Feb 01 - 12:30 AM
catspaw49 09 Feb 01 - 12:43 AM
Blackcatter 09 Feb 01 - 12:47 AM
Rick Fielding 09 Feb 01 - 12:57 AM
Mark Cohen 09 Feb 01 - 02:47 AM
Grab 09 Feb 01 - 06:50 AM
GUEST,wanna warble 09 Feb 01 - 07:16 AM
Alice 09 Feb 01 - 11:21 AM
Lox 09 Feb 01 - 12:14 PM
Kim C 09 Feb 01 - 01:04 PM
Mark Cohen 10 Feb 01 - 12:32 AM
Alice 10 Feb 01 - 12:41 AM
catspaw49 10 Feb 01 - 01:02 AM
Katcina 10 Feb 01 - 03:38 PM
GUEST,wanna warble 11 Feb 01 - 09:36 PM
Amos 11 Feb 01 - 09:45 PM
Amos 11 Feb 01 - 09:59 PM
GUEST,KENNY 10 Jul 07 - 03:09 AM
Jim Lad 10 Jul 07 - 03:34 AM
kendall 10 Jul 07 - 07:17 AM
Nick 10 Jul 07 - 07:19 AM
stallion 10 Jul 07 - 08:57 AM
stallion 10 Jul 07 - 08:59 AM
Nick 10 Jul 07 - 09:03 AM
Bee 10 Jul 07 - 09:52 AM
John Hardly 10 Jul 07 - 10:26 AM
Nick 10 Jul 07 - 11:08 AM
GUEST,TJ in San Diego 10 Jul 07 - 11:20 AM
Bee 10 Jul 07 - 11:45 AM
Genie 10 Jul 07 - 01:15 PM
stallion 10 Jul 07 - 03:11 PM
Uncle Boko 10 Jul 07 - 04:52 PM
John Hardly 10 Jul 07 - 06:09 PM
GUEST,mabel 10 Jul 07 - 06:19 PM
terrier 11 Jul 07 - 06:05 PM
Jim Lad 11 Jul 07 - 06:35 PM
terrier 11 Jul 07 - 06:45 PM
John Hardly 12 Jul 07 - 11:55 AM
terrier 14 Jul 07 - 06:16 PM
GUEST,WhiteWhorl 12 Jun 11 - 10:36 PM
Bert 13 Jun 11 - 01:24 AM
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Subject: do I need a vibrator?
From: GUEST,wanna warble
Date: 08 Feb 01 - 07:55 PM

This must be the most "insider info" since Milken was jailed.

I've read
I've inquired
I've experimented
I've embarrassed myself

From whence hails vibrato--what body part is producing it? When you "have it" where do you "feel it".

If it's not a "natural" thing then why does it manifest itself at differing "rates" in different singers?

If it's breath control then how can people have it at varying volume levels?

I recently have been doing a recording project (guitar related), and in so doing was 2X4'ed in the face again with the painful reality that my voice...


..........sucks


.......ever so badly


It is boring beyond words

It is thinner than toilet paper (the word "used" comes to mind in this context)

and it sounds as though I've acquired a lisp not present in my thpeaking voice.


I'm laughing to keep from crying...if you knew how important music is to me...


any help?


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Subject: RE: do I need a vibrator?
From: GUEST,re: Singing...
Date: 08 Feb 01 - 08:00 PM

I too have a horrid voice but this is what I did to get better. Listened to good Folk Singers, spent a lot of time around Fiddle/Viola playing and practiced humming to a Vacuum Cleaner. Please do not laugh! This worked for me so well that I can ape a good mid range Voice despite the fact that in reality I am still horrid.

Hope that helps


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Subject: RE: do I need a vibrator?
From: katlaughing
Date: 08 Feb 01 - 08:04 PM

Click here for some possible help.


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Subject: RE: do I need a vibrator?
From: sophocleese
Date: 08 Feb 01 - 08:08 PM

Umm, I want to help you, I'm trying to think how I can just by writing from a distance. First suggestion is that you invest, for a brief time if funds are short, in singing lessons with a teacher who can hear you and give you immediate advice on what to do to head in the direction you want your voice to go. Singing lessons can show you how to get more fullness in your voice. I don't know how old you are but most singers don't get their best voice until they are in their thirties, if you're younger than this take advantage of some of the flexibility and higher range which can/may be lost as you get older.

Check out earlier threads in the Mudcat on singing. Alice in particular has given us many links to useful pages about voice production. I'll try and find you some links to them.

Above all know that you have a voice it just needs to get out a little more. If you think its boring add a lot of expression just as you would if you were telling a joke or story to a friend. Ham it up a lot, exaggerate it and make it silly and then come back to a place which is between the expressionless and the overblown.


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Subject: RE: do I need a vibrator?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 08 Feb 01 - 08:08 PM

Too much vibrato is far far worse than too little. In fcat I can't think of any (folk)singers I really admire where I've ever been aware of any vibrato at all.

I know that doesn't answer the question. But the only reason I'd want to know where the vibrato was coming from was if I'd developed it, and wanted to stop it - like an unwanted noise in an engine.


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Subject: RE: do I need a vibrator?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 08 Feb 01 - 08:13 PM

Yeah. Who needs vibrato? I consider it an optional addition to a good voice, but no necessity. On the other hand, good depth, tone, and staying on pitch are pretty essential.

Voice lessons can definitely help.

Also, remember that most people do NOT like the sound of their own voice on tape, while others may like it just fine.

Being able to hear yourself well when you practice can also help a lot. Good luck.

- LH


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Subject: RE: do I need a vibrator?
From: sophocleese
Date: 08 Feb 01 - 08:19 PM

Okay if you click here you should get a list of threads that have been written before on the singing voice.

Vibrato is one technique of voice production and can be effective but don't rely on it to fix all problems.


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Subject: RE: do I need a vibrator?
From: ddw
Date: 08 Feb 01 - 08:22 PM

I'm with McGrath on this one — can't imagine why anyone would want vibrato if it's folk music you're interested in. Sorry, but when I hear it, all I can think of is "lounge lizzard music." Turns me right off, with one exception — early Johnny Mathis. Only person, IMHO, who ever did it well.

I do wonder, however, if what we're dealing with here is maybe a misunderstood term. With all the emphasis WW put on the "thinness" if his/her voice, I wonder if what is being sought is just more "body" or "richer tone."

If that's the case, WW, you're gonna be limited somewhat by your hereditary voice, but with a little coaching and a lot of practice ALMOST ANYBODY can improve greatly. I think Sophocleese gave you some pretty sound advice above.

cheers,

david


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Subject: RE: do I need a vibrator?
From: sophocleese
Date: 08 Feb 01 - 08:22 PM

Oops! I need remedial lessons in blue clickys.

Go to the Mudcat FAQ - Newcomer's Guide in the Table of Contents you'll find Memorable Mudcat Threads, click on that and you'll see another link to Threads on the Singing voice.


Fixed it (above). --JoeClone


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Subject: RE: do I need a vibrator?
From: hesperis
Date: 08 Feb 01 - 08:30 PM

here

Was this it, soph?


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Subject: RE: do I need a vibrator?
From: GUEST,wanna warble
Date: 08 Feb 01 - 08:34 PM

short list of folk-oriented singers with vibtaro;

Gordon Lightfoot
Gordon Bok
John McCutcheon
James Taylor
Kate Wolf
Tim O'Brien
John Gorka
Kristina Olsen


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Subject: RE: do I need a vibrator?
From: hesperis
Date: 08 Feb 01 - 08:35 PM

(Ok. 11 posts in this thread, and no-one has even hinted at the obvious... HELLO!)

This person asked if they need a vibrator!


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Subject: RE: do I need a vibrator?
From: Matt_R
Date: 08 Feb 01 - 08:38 PM

I use vibrato all the time. And I folk songs. So sue me.


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Subject: RE: do I need a vibrator?
From: sophocleese
Date: 08 Feb 01 - 08:48 PM

All right hesperis.

A vibrator will not likely do anything useful for you as far as voice production is concerned except possibly leave you feeling a little less inhibited about expressing yourself. You may however feel a lot happier about other 'aspects' of yourself. I have no knowledge of the possible sound effects if you use the vibrator with a guitar effects pedal. Try it out and see what you think.

PS, thanks to those who fixed my link.


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Subject: RE: do I need a vibrator?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 08 Feb 01 - 08:50 PM

Matt, LOL!


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Subject: RE: do I need a vibrator?
From: GUEST,wanna warble
Date: 08 Feb 01 - 09:05 PM

The "vibrator" referrence was just an aknowledgement that a little humor usually illicits a better response to real questions on this forum.

ww


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Subject: RE: do I need a vibrator?
From: Lox
Date: 08 Feb 01 - 09:18 PM

Ewen MacColl had a great vibrato voice. He sounded like an operatic bass singer - except that he would be singing something like "the highland muster roll" when he did it.

I think vibrato is something that is incredible when it is used subtly. When a great singer sings a perfect passionate and pure note that bulds and builds into a vibrato, that is when I tend to be most impressed by their voice.

I hasten to add that building and increasing volume don't necessarily mean the same thing to me.

I think that when singing, the prime requisite to becoming a good singer is to enjoy it.

There are two ways of enjoying singing; one is to revel in the attention a performer gets, and the other is to delight in the different frequencies and accents that can be achieved by manipulating the voice.

Famous singers tend to have a combination of both.

I love experimenting with my voice, both in speech and song. I love, for example, trying out different accents (something which, in todays world, requires cultural sensitivity).

Try, for fun, imitating the characteristics, to the point of caricature if necessary, of diferent singers. This will make you aware of the different tonal possibilities of your vocal chords.

Take the mickey out of singers you hate if you are too intimidated by those you admire. Just try and do it accurately.

If you listen carefully to someones speaking or singing voice, you will hear resonances that you don't have in your voice.

A combination of listening and experimentation will lead you to discover how to reproduce those same resonances.

Further experimentation will lead you to developing your own optimum voice style.

You can't do better than that.

Oh - and sod shyness!!!!!!

lox


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Subject: RE: do I need a vibrator?
From: catspaw49
Date: 08 Feb 01 - 09:23 PM

Vibrato? I can't believe Buffy hasn't come up on this thread yet..............Hey ww, sing duets with me and folks will think you have a spectacular voice.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: do I need a vibrator?
From: mkebenn
Date: 08 Feb 01 - 10:30 PM

Spaw, as I was readin' this I thought " the only time I do this on purpose is singin' "Co'dine" and "little Wheel"." However, when I sing Any of John Stewart's music it kinda happens all by itself. What I found when I was young is that I kept tryin' to sing above my natual register(picture John Cash doin' Donovan). My dad said"Kerist, sing in your own voice", and there went "Wear your love like Heaven"LOL. Really, get your voice out of your throat and into your gut, may cure the thinness.('course, I still can't sing) Mike


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Subject: RE: do I need a vibrator?
From: Matt_R
Date: 08 Feb 01 - 10:39 PM

I love Chrissie Hynde's vibrato...I think listening to a lot of her voice encourages me to learn. Glad I did.


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Subject: RE: do I need a vibrator?
From: catspaw49
Date: 08 Feb 01 - 10:45 PM

Yeah Mike....I know what you mean about it "seems to happen." BTW, my Dad always said "Keericed" to and I know of a few others that did....I'm beginning to think that it must have been a generational thing!!!!

Chrissie Hynde=female Tom Petty (love her.....Pretenders are a great group)

Spaw


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Subject: RE: do I need a vibrator?
From: Bugsy
Date: 08 Feb 01 - 10:46 PM

Hey, look at June Tabor - No vibrato whatsoever in her voice.

But what a FANTASTIC VOICE!

CHeers

Bugsy


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Subject: RE: do I need a vibrator?
From: Matt_R
Date: 08 Feb 01 - 11:00 PM

Wow Spaw, cool! Another Pretenders fan!


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Subject: RE: do I need a vibrator?
From: Alice
Date: 09 Feb 01 - 12:14 AM

Some people have vibrato confused with a wobble in the voice. If a singer doesn't have enough breath support, their voice will start to tremble or wobble when they sing a sustained note. That is NOT vibrato. Actually, as my voice coach says, vibrato is not necessarily even part of a good singing voice. What you want with your voice is good tone quality. When instrumentalists use vibrato, they can improve the tone quality of the sound coming from the instrument. To talk about this with the voice doesn't really apply, because the singer doesn't have to do anything to cause "vibrato", they just have to develop good tone quality (and alot of this is learning to have good breath support).

Some people are born with naturally better sounding tone in their voice than others, but the tone can be improved by learning good technique. The term vibrato is very misunderstood when it comes to singing - most people confuse it with a wobble in the voice, which doesn't sound good, and really is a result of poor breath support. A wobble distorts the pitch, and this shows up especially in recordings. Don't try to develop a vibration in your voice. Get a good voice teacher and learn good breath support. You mention varying volume levels - steady breath support gives you the ability to vary the volume of your voice. An elegant ending of a phrase shows you that a singer has great support, instead of just dying at the end of a note because there isn't enough breath, or ending up in a wobble (because they are running out of air). Vibrato isn't the issue. With this input, go back and analyze the "line" that good singers have. One bad distortion of a singing line is a wobble. Develop a good line with your voice. A line = consistent singing quality throughout the song. Listen to singers that can sustain the same quality through a song and sound like themselves (not an imitation of someone else) throughout the whole song. Listen to the expression, the tone quality, the modulation of the voice, and find YOUR voice, don't imitate.

Alice


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Subject: RE: do I need a vibrator?
From: Amos
Date: 09 Feb 01 - 12:27 AM

I recommend a pack or so a day of unfiltered cigarettes, and half a gallon of black coffee. It really adds subtrle resonance to your singing voice.

A


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Subject: RE: do I need a vibrator?
From: alison
Date: 09 Feb 01 - 12:30 AM

go find a singing teacher even just for a one off lesson.. you will learn all sorts of techniques.... some seem ridiculous, others are so easy you wonder why you never learnt them before... but they make a difference....

to get a nicer tone I was told that "your tongue has got a G spot... you just have to find it" *grin*... shut up 'spaw........ but its true.. hold a nte.. and move your tongue very slightly and you'll find a better tone.... I'm sure there's a technical term for that... but "go find your g-spot!!"

hahahaha..... now vibrators... that's a different thread altogether...... hahahaha

slainte

alison


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Subject: RE: do I need a vibrator?
From: catspaw49
Date: 09 Feb 01 - 12:43 AM

G-Spot and tongue together and I'm supposed to leave that alone???? Geeziz al........that's askin' a lot!!!

Spaw


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Subject: RE: do I need a vibrator?
From: Blackcatter
Date: 09 Feb 01 - 12:47 AM

greetings

a voice teacher is a great way to go

If you (or other people listening in) are tight on funds - try hooking up with the choir director of a local church. If you're not Christian, try your local Unitarian Universalist Church - they don't care what you believe. And they're likely to be into folk music as well.

pax yall


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Subject: RE: do I need a vibrator?
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 09 Feb 01 - 12:57 AM

This thread seems funny AND full of good information, but I'm going to focus on the "fallout" you're probably feeling from having fucked up the recording session. Ten to one you hate yourself right now AND you feel plenty embarassed.

Been there....it DOES suck!

One day (within the last year) I had a session booked to do a duet with one of the finest musicians in the universe. I stayed up the whole night writing a very complicated chart to the tune we were gonna play on. The next day I showed him the sights of Toronto, brought him home for lunch, went to the studio....and I completely screwed up! Couldn't do my guitar part to save my life. I was horribly upset, 'cause I usually expect to get things in one take. Didn't bother him a bit. He did his part and just said, "put your part on later". I did (first take) but the memory of not being prepared will always be there.

Just step back and get focused again. Chances are you wouldn't be recording if you didn't have skills. Do you have someone with you in the studio who REALLY knows what you're all about? Believe me, that helps. Are you POSITIVE you're doing the songs in the RIGHT keys...or is that something you've always just taken for granted. Are you relaxed? If not, why not? Suppose your project takes six sessions and you screw up two? It ain't the end of the world. I'm not sure if you're experienced in the studio or not, but believe me, what you hear as the end product, is NEVER the way it went down in the studio. Players laugh, cry, swear and HATE THEIR VOICES!

Believe me, it's nowhere near as bad as you think right now. Listen to the tape in a day or two and don't slash yourself to pieces...find the mistakes and parts you don't like....and FIX them. Believe me it CAN be done.

Perhaps a vibrator right now ain't a bad idea though!!

Good luck

Rick


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Subject: RE: do I need a vibrator?
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 09 Feb 01 - 02:47 AM

Hey, 'Spaw, you did it!

I developed a vibrato all of a sudden about 15 years ago, and I still don't understand it or know how to use it that well. And on some songs it disappears. I agree with Alice up to a point, and that point is that I don't think breath support is everything. AS important (notice I didn't say MORE important), in my opinion, is relaxation. The muscles that control the larynx are incredibly tiny and incredibly sensitive to tension. Anything that helps you relax your mind, as well as your face, tongue, throat, neck, shoulders, chest, legs -- you get the picture -- will help your voice. One of my teachers, Kim Scanlon of Seattle, a true genius, used to have people practice yawning in dozens of different ways, to stretch and relax the facial and throat muscles. I've just found a voice teacher here in Hilo, and told her I felt my voice was too thin and buzzy and I wished it were richer. She said, "Oh, richer--that's easy!" We shall see. But I also highly recommend a good teacher, even for only one lesson if that's all you can afford.

Aloha,
Mark


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Subject: RE: do I need a vibrator?
From: Grab
Date: 09 Feb 01 - 06:50 AM

On the subject of good vibrations, I've just started lessons. My teacher was trying to get me to move the sound around in my mouth on vowels. I said, "Well it sounds better like this, but I get this odd buzzing feeling like my mouth is vibrating. Is that wrong?" She said, "That means you've got it right - keep doing it like that!"

Grab.


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Subject: RE: do I need a vibrator?
From: GUEST,wanna warble
Date: 09 Feb 01 - 07:16 AM

Thanks so much for taking the time to encourage, advise, opine--I don't take your valuable time for granted.

So far I've gathered a concensus that, if one has good vocal tone, most of you see vibrato as unnecessary to a good voice. Also that, though vibrato may not be developed, tone CAN be improved.

Second, relaxation is key. I'm admittedly not. It's a catch 22 though as I'm not relaxed because I know my voice sucks.

Great link Kat, but even there they say that singers argue over whether vibrato is a natural occurance or not (they agree with the forum).

I do think I'll swallow my pride and embarrass myself in front of a teacher.

Interesting ommission. Still nobody has offered up what is "vibrating" when vibrato occurs. The closest anyone has come is the diaphram/solar plexus. It's like one of those referred itches--you know the kind...you have an itch on your leg or arm but realize that you can't exactly pinpoint the source of the itch in order to scratch it.

Rick, thanks for the encouragement--you described my esperience to a tee.

ww


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Subject: RE: do I need a vibrator?
From: Alice
Date: 09 Feb 01 - 11:21 AM

Mark, I didn't say breath support is everything, but without enough air, you can't succeed with any of the other techniques of singing. To combine what you said about relaxation and what Grab followed up on with a "buzzing feeling", when you are relaxed, and have yourself set up correctly, and have enough air to support the sound with, you can feel a buzzing vibration on your lips when you sing (that buzz vibration still is not "vibrato"). GUEST warbler, a GOOD teacher will be able to demonstrate, lead, and explain these things (a bad teacher will ruin your voice). There are resonating chambers in your skull, in the sinus cavities; a singers whole body is ultimately the "instrument", not just the vocal folds.

I was lucky five years ago to find an excellent teacher, and she charged me only $10 a lesson, since she believed that it was more important for people to have long term access to lessons in order to learn everything and develop the physical exercises. Because I gave her some seeds and plants for her yard, made a webpage for her, and helped her on the computer, she will not take any money for lessons and thinks SHE owes ME! I am seeing her struggle financially in this backwater rural town, but she keeps coaching me for free, she won't take payment. She also teaches the local home school student chorus for free. She could be charging at least $100 a lesson if she was in a city, but the singing is more important to her, (and getting her son through high school in a safe place to live).

A good teacher will bring out YOUR voice. Don't worry about sounding "operatic". I've said this before, and I'll say it again, learning skills that preserve your vocal folds from harm, develop the tone, the agility and range of your voice, will not turn you into an opera singer. It will make you be able to sing whatever kind of music you want to sing, with more pleasure for you and your audience, and preserve your singing voice far into old age.

A sample -Alice Flynn


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Subject: RE: do I need a vibrator?
From: Lox
Date: 09 Feb 01 - 12:14 PM

What is a vibrato?

Well, I've just been doing one in order to try and break it down and explain it for you.

The closest I can get is that it is like a form of controlled convulsion in your throat and jaw!.....???

Try and make your voice "tremble" with ecstacy.....??????

Listen to Nina Simone and hear how she trembles, then listen to Pavarotti and notice how he does the same thing but seems to have more fluidity and control.

I personally prefer the emotion conveyed by Nina, but I still hear the passion conveyed by Pavarotti and I marvel in his "openness".

PS, It came out not long ago that Pavarotti hade hoodwinked the world of classical music: He did not train, and has only recently started to read music.

He new the songs because he loved them and he sang them well for the same reason.

He remains one of the best three tenors in the world!

lox


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Subject: RE: do I need a vibrator?
From: Kim C
Date: 09 Feb 01 - 01:04 PM

I always figured it's your vocal cords that vibrate.

Your voice is like any other instrument. If you want to get "good" you have to practice. And "good" is an objective thing. There are a lot of people I would call great singers whose voices suck. They're great singers because they have style and passion.

Hang in there. You can do it!


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Subject: RE: do I need a vibrator?
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 10 Feb 01 - 12:32 AM

Alice, we are certainly in agreement. I'd like to lisen to your sample, but I haven't yet gotten into the ins and outs of MP3. Someday soon, as the song goes...

Kim, your vocal cords do vibrate to make a sound, but that's on the order of hundreds of times per second. The vibrato that people are talking about in singing is only a few times per second, and seems to be a movement in the whole air column, possibly initiated by the diaphragm (you can do a "fake" vibrato with just your diaphragm by kind of "huffing" as you sing) but I think the throat muscles also contribute, and probably the vocal cords as well to some degree, since there is a slight variation in pitch. (Again, you can "fake" a vibrato by sliding the pitch of your tone up and down.) I'm no voice teacher, though I do know a little bit about physiology. It's a fascinating subject, and I don't think anyone yet has the last word. In this high-tech know-it-all world, I find that comforting.

Aloha,
Mark


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Subject: RE: do I need a vibrator?
From: Alice
Date: 10 Feb 01 - 12:41 AM

Hi, Mark, I am envying your climate right now. It has been below zero here. I can't get mp3 to "stream", no matter how many times I've tried to get my Netscape browser to choose the SoundJam software. I have to download each file I want to listen to and then open it up in Sound Jam and play it. I particularly have liked listening to other Mudcatter's music on mp3 and exploring some other gems of musicians and singers I've found, like Jodee James, who sings in Welsh and English.


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Subject: RE: do I need a vibrator?
From: catspaw49
Date: 10 Feb 01 - 01:02 AM

If its really critical for you to develop a vibrato, then perhaps a vibrator IS the answer! Better yet, glue a variable speed sander on your ass and have at it!

BTW, vibrato on windblown instruments is done two ways. There is both a diaphragm vibrato (stmach vibrato) which is more in use among symphonic types and a lip/mouth vibrato used by most jazz players. On sax/clarinet for instance, the lip vibrato is done by retaining the same embouchure while forming the syllable "yah" in your mouth. This causes your lower jaw (and lip) to move up and down against the reed in a controlled manner. The speed is controlled by the yahs. Taken to the level of ridiculous, you wind up with Guy Lombardo's sax section.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: do I need a vibrator?
From: Katcina
Date: 10 Feb 01 - 03:38 PM

I don't know if you need a vibrator, but mine is not for loan!!


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Subject: RE: do I need a vibrator?
From: GUEST,wanna warble
Date: 11 Feb 01 - 09:36 PM

Mr catspaw49,

I tried your sander suggestion.

I had considerable trouble finding a suitable bonding agent to both hold my ten pound craftsman to my somewhat greasy ass, and not cause considerable rash development to my skin.

I finally settled on four sizable straps of duct tape (what else--I AM a midwesterner). I even found that I could buy different colors of duct tape so that my outfits can be coordinated.

I had to also swallow my pride and shave my upper legs, ass, and pubic regions so as to be able to remove said sander while I wasn't singing

I did however achieve the desired results. I sounded like a veritable munchkin with rapidfire vibrato at the upper speeds. When I tried the lower settings I was pleasantly surprised to find my voice had a marked resemblence to Paul Robeson--well, the sander sort of did.

side benefits?

My ass has never been so baby-smooth and my wife can't keep her hands off of it (nor her eyes off my newly bald mouse).

I've been able to refinish my living and dining room floors while working my way through the Cole Porter songbook.

I may not get a big label recording contract but I've been in negotiations with Sears and Roebuck for a sander endorsement deal.

Some things were just meant to be.


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Subject: RE: do I need a vibrator?
From: Amos
Date: 11 Feb 01 - 09:45 PM

Alice, lass, its just LOVELY!!! You have added to the net beauty in thw world, for which, as one of its many annointed spokespersons, I thank you!

A


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Subject: RE: do I need a vibrator?
From: Amos
Date: 11 Feb 01 - 09:59 PM

And mister warble, since you have put up with so much deviancy in this thread, let me reward your patience by advising you that the answer is a simple Yes. You DO need a vibrator.


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Subject: RE: do I need a vibrator?
From: GUEST,KENNY
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 03:09 AM

I think having the vibrato helps much in many modern songs to get it smoothly end in many lines.


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Subject: RE: do I need a vibrator?
From: Jim Lad
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 03:34 AM

I think I developed it as a young man and it pretty well turns itself on whenever I sing. If I don't want to use Vibrato, I have to actually switch it off but I have not one single clue as to how I create the sound.
As for those who don't like it, well they are usually the same people who prefer songs to be sung in the artist's "Talking Voice".
I'm guessing that to those people, distinct voices are like distinct flavours. You can enjoy them intensely for a short time but then dislike them with the same intensity when the novelty wears off.


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Subject: RE: do I need a vibrator?
From: kendall
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 07:17 AM

Too much vibrato is tiring to listen to. Sara Grey has it just right.


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Subject: RE: do I need a vibrator?
From: Nick
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 07:19 AM

There is a chap I have come across a number of times who has an interesting sloooow vibrato which he employs on all the songs he sings. If his intention is to sound like a singing sheep then he is achieving that goal very successfully. To me it really grates.


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Subject: RE: do I need a vibrator?
From: stallion
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 08:57 AM

Oi Nick, is that me!


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Subject: RE: do I need a vibrator?
From: stallion
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 08:59 AM

oops, it went too early, I use vibrato sometimes, especially when I have had a few!


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Subject: RE: do I need a vibrator?
From: Nick
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 09:03 AM

Absolutely not, Peter (surely you'd sound like a horse wouldn't you?!)


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Subject: RE: do I need a vibrator?
From: Bee
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 09:52 AM

I don't actively dislike a little vibrato, but I'm not a fan either, so was really dismayed to discover I have a 'natural' vibrato going on with my voice. A kind mudcatter gave me some tips on controlling it, and I almost have it mastered, but it still pops up here and there, mostly in the upper range of my voice - I don't feel I'm straining to reach those notes, it just happens. When I 'feel it' happening, I find I can often stop (smooth out the tone?) by doing some indescribable (by me) action somewhere around my larynx. This indicates, to me, anyway, that it isn't entirely breath control that controls vibrato.

But with all my efforts, damned if someone didn't tell me they really liked my vibrato and wished they could do it.


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Subject: RE: do I need a vibrator?
From: John Hardly
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 10:26 AM

so, Bee,you can stop it by controlling your larnyx. So, when you feel it, the vibration is actually in your throat? Is your vibrato fairly rapid and regular?

When I started this thread anonymously several years ago I was truly puzzled by the dearth of information as to what exactly is happening when vibrato occurs. I still can't find a definitive answer nearly 7 years later.


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Subject: RE: do I need a vibrator?
From: Nick
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 11:08 AM

This article tries to explain it - whether it is true or not I don't know!


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Subject: RE: do I need a vibrator?
From: GUEST,TJ in San Diego
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 11:20 AM

When I was a young coffee house singer, I would greatly admire those with a vocal resonance and vibrato I could not command. Over the years, I heard many vocalists try too hard to "create" vibrato where none existed. Kenny Rogers was one who made it very obvious at times. It wasn't until I hit my late thirties and forties that I learned to "relax into it." I think younger people are often more tense, voices are somewhat more taut and often a bit higher in pitch as a result. As one ages, the voice deepens and acquires more timbre and color. Maria Muldaur once referred to her young voice as like a clarinet that deepened and became colored more like a tenor saxophone as she matured. It is at this point that vibrato seems to occur most naturally. For me, it was learning to relax and to breath from the diaphragm instead of the top of the lungs. Frank Sinatra said he learned his phrasing and breathing technique from brass and woodwind players. Not a bad place to begin.


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Subject: RE: do I need a vibrator?
From: Bee
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 11:45 AM

"so, Bee,you can stop it by controlling your larnyx. So, when you feel it, the vibration is actually in your throat? Is your vibrato fairly rapid and regular?" John H.

Keeping in mind I'm an absolute amateur, and middle aged to boot... the vibration seems to be in the throat. I have to pay close attention while singing or I may not notice the vibration at all - the sensation is subtle. It is medium rapid and definitely regular, though I have heard faster in various singers. It isn't quite the 'wobble' of some elderly women's sopranos, but I can see it could head that way if not controlled. My mother, whose voice is lower than mine, at 83 has a lovely singing voice, and is still a choir member.

In trying to describe my voice, I would say it is somewhat high, but in lower registers has an almost 'two note' or double reed sound. The vibrato almost seems to be those 'two notes' (I know I'm saying this badly - haven't the right vocabulary) competing, particularly on long vowel sounds, like in 'sailing', 'lies', 'moon'.


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Subject: RE: do I need a vibrator?
From: Genie
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 01:15 PM

I've given up or gotten over a lot of my vibrato, but I'll never get over or give up my vibrator.


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Subject: RE: do I need a vibrator?
From: stallion
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 03:11 PM

mine comes from deep within, although it might be the throat, it tends to arrive without asking when I switch to full power and I use it as an indicator as to whether my voice is in good nic or not, if my voice ain't to good I can't switch it on.


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Subject: RE: do I need a vibrator?
From: Uncle Boko
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 04:52 PM

If you don't have good orgasms get a vibrator - it's as simple as that!


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Subject: RE: do I need a vibrator?
From: John Hardly
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 06:09 PM

Thanks for the answer, Bee.


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Subject: RE: do I need a vibrator?
From: GUEST,mabel
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 06:19 PM

Isn't this all a bit vibrationist? Also a bit ageist and some of us are aged or ageing.
I have had a lifelong,since Sunday School, vibrato but am now out and trembling away confidently.
For years I held a hand in front of my wobbling throat but now I am not ashamed and consider it a coloraturo addition to the folk world.

It is really no good going around criticising people for producing lovely, if reverberating, noises. There are far worse things they could be doing like not singing at all.

Lets all vibrate with welly.


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Subject: RE: do I need a vibrator?
From: terrier
Date: 11 Jul 07 - 06:05 PM

My music teacher once told me that vibrato was used by singers to disguise the fact that they couldn't sing in tune, the more out of tune, the more vibrato. That may be a little harsh but I've heard many a singer who had a perfectly good voice spoil their singing by using inappropriate vibrato.


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Subject: RE: do I need a vibrator?
From: Jim Lad
Date: 11 Jul 07 - 06:35 PM

You know guys, lost in all of this is the fact that Vibrato is a wonderful tool if you can use it. Violinists use it in the same way, to fill out the note. Sorry to hear what the music teacher said. That's just wrong.
Many people wave their voices to hit a note, just the same way a swallow dips and rises before perching. It's an art and it works.
However, as I said before, it's distinctive and can emote as many negative as positive responses. No?


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Subject: RE: do I need a vibrator?
From: terrier
Date: 11 Jul 07 - 06:45 PM

Just like any other tool, it takes time to learn how to use it correctly.


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Subject: RE: do I need a vibrator?
From: John Hardly
Date: 12 Jul 07 - 11:55 AM

"Sorry to hear what the music teacher said. That's just wrong."

That was my thought. I can't even imagine a voice teacher who would make that kind of a statement about vibrato.

And I still cannot think of a good singing voice -- anyone famous for their good singing -- who does not have/use vibrato.

Just like any other tool, it takes time to learn how to use it correctly.

But the nature of the question of this thread is not how to learn to use it correctly -- it is WHAT THE HELL IS IT?!?!?!

Where does it come from?!?!

Someone upthread mentioned that they can tell when vibrato is "forced" or not natural. I agree. I love Ella Fitzgerald's voice (one of the best voices ever recorded). I did not like Dinah Shore's voice. Dinah Shore's vibrato was of such a slow "wavelength" that it sounded like an affectation --something she had to work to create. Ella's is so rapid (but not so rapid as to sound like a munchkin) that I just have trouble believing that it is anything other than something that just happens when she sings.

I cannot, for love or money, just sing and have vibrato happen. I can attempt to add a little color for a half-beat at the end of a line, but absolutely nothing I could hold. I can't make it happen and I still don't know where I would feel it if I was going for it naturally.

Like anything else -- swinging a golf club, doing caligraphy -- one has to *feel* what the right thing IS -- at least ONCE -- in order to repeat it. If one never feels what the right thing is in the first place, one cannot practice to perfect it.


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Subject: RE: do I need a vibrator?
From: terrier
Date: 14 Jul 07 - 06:16 PM

Vibrato is a musical effect, produced in singing and on musical instruments by a regular pulsating change of pitch, and is used to add expression and vocal-like qualities to instrumental music.

There ya' go. Does that answer the question?

The music teacher I was talking about was not in fact a singing teacher and he made the remark to indicate that some singers (not all) would (mis)use vibrato as a means to cover up poor intonation.


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Subject: RE: do I need a vibrator?
From: GUEST,WhiteWhorl
Date: 12 Jun 11 - 10:36 PM

Vibrato's a healthy part of singing. Straight notes constantly can damage your voice over years and years of singing them.

Vibrato is a natural part of your voice, after your voice is trained and your diaphragm becomes stronger your voice should start developing a natural vibrato. Everyone can use it, it's not something you should try and force to put on, it comes naturally and gets stronger the stronger your diaphragm gets.


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Subject: RE: do I need a vibrator?
From: Bert
Date: 13 Jun 11 - 01:24 AM

I just found this thread.

Sing quietly and learn to USE the microphone.

That's how Adam Faith did it and he did quite well.


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