Singing

Subject: Singing
From: GUEST,Autograph
Date: 12 Feb 01 - 08:07 AM

Does anybody has the kindness to explain to me what is a head voice and what is throat voice?

How can I develop the head voice of middle school students? How also can I develop their part-competence?

Subject: RE: Singing
From: Ella who is Sooze
Date: 12 Feb 01 - 08:32 AM

ok.. this is what my singing tutor used to tell me...

Singing comes from the stomach.... not the nose, not the throat...

throat singing, is when people squash their throats, to produce a coarse, nasal sound... The vocal chords may be resticted...

Head voice is when the singing is clear as a bell....not nasal (this is what I understand it to be...)

Get them to practise the vocal exercises... they may sound daft, but it does work....

I do.... ka ka ka ka kaaaaaaa kar kooooo karrr and make sure the tongue is flat, not pressed to the back of the throat. on the same note, or up and down the octave... or mmeee me meeeee mooooh moesss

Dictation is also really important when singing, and helps the voice to come over clear, even if the singer has to over accentuate the word just a little..

Other importants, are that they breathe properly, from the diaphragm, and try not to heave their shoulders up. Singing depends on the way the lungs are used...

The head in effect acts as an amplifyer for the sound and if the sound is surpressed in the throat, then the singers voice will not project as well...

got the below from the Britanica Encyclo...

In its physical aspect, singing has a well-defined technique that depends on the use of the lungs, which act as an air supply, or bellows; on the larynx, which acts as a reed or vibrator; on the chest and head cavities, which have the function of an amplifier, as the tube in a wind instrument; and on the tongue, which together with the palate, teeth, and lips articulate and impose consonants and vowels on the amplified sound. Though these four mechanisms function independently, they are nevertheless coordinated in the establishment of a vocal technique and are made to interact upon one another.

hope that helps...

Ella

knackered now... remembering all my singing tutors words from years ago...

Subject: RE: Singing
From: Ella who is Sooze
Date: 12 Feb 01 - 08:39 AM

though I still forget about diction !

I meant diction, not dictation... doh... no woder I forget!

Subject: RE: Singing
From: GUEST,Matt_R
Date: 12 Feb 01 - 08:41 AM

Here's a question I have. At church yesterday, my buddy Nick and I deliberately sat next to each other, since we have similar voices and we sing LOUD. On preparing to sing, he was sitting up straight as an arrow, and I was almost doubled over. He encouraged me to "get in the right posture", but I explained that I can sing better in such a bent over, sitting down position. Does anyone know why this might be? Could it be, that in my case, the diaphram works better like that?

--Matt (we wonders precioussss, yes, we wondersssss...)

Subject: RE: Singing
From: Ella who is Sooze
Date: 12 Feb 01 - 09:24 AM

Matt... you get proper use from the diagphram when you are sat upright, as this allows for the full movement. And is on the whole beneficial, you probably have just got used to singing like that...

Try the other way, and see the difference..

Ella

Subject: RE: Singing
From: Mary in Kentucky
Date: 12 Feb 01 - 09:43 AM

I once saw a student illustrate diaphragm breathing by lying flat on the floor on his back. He said, "Watch the stomach (abdomen) go up and down when I breathe correctly."

I also heard an opera singer illustrate opening the sinuses and all the spaces in the head to allow sound to reveberate there. I think she held her head a certain way in order to open up the throat and various passages.

Subject: RE: Singing
From: Ella who is Sooze
Date: 12 Feb 01 - 09:45 AM

if you lift your head up so that your chin is pointing forwards and up a little... that tends to help.... ahhh oohhhh all those lessons must have paid off...lol

Subject: RE: Singing
From: GUEST,Matt_R
Date: 12 Feb 01 - 09:56 AM

LOL--so THAT'S it! I was looking in the encyclopedia of folk music at my library, and in all the pictures of performer (Woody Guthrie, Weavers, Pete Seeger) all of them have their chins in the air like a bunch of geese. All I could do was laugh my head off!

Subject: RE: Singing
From: GutBucketeer
Date: 12 Feb 01 - 10:22 AM

I am taking group singing lessons from a FANTASTIC teacher here in Silver Spring Maryland right now, Alison Hynes-Ledbetter. She provides a very interesting perspective, since she described her history as being a voice major in college that didn't learn proper technique. She subsequently went on to "destroy" her voice, and had to totally rebuild it by learning to sing properly: Throat open, tongue down, soft palette open, breathing with the whole chest, and diaphram, stretching, the works.

The first 4 weeks of class all we did is go through excersizes, learn about our "instrument" and "who" a lot. We didn't sing a song until the 5th week. But, guess what, all of a sudden, I'm not losing my voice anymore, and can sing much louder without my voice cracking. It is great!

She makes the point that there really isn't a "head" or "chest" voice if you are singing properly.

Based upon this, I would suggest that you study all of the threads and web-sites that Alice put up before. Then start the kids on the fundementals. If they learn to support their voices now (I didn't) it will last them a life time.

To get them to learn parts, I would first separate them in each corner of the room as much as possible. Then, get each group to try to sing something very different at the same time (different rithym, notes, etc.). When they can do that, then move them to some of those great camp songs with different parts (one bottle pop,two bottle pop. The song about the instruments in the band, etc.). When they can do that, have them work on their parts.

JAB

Subject: RE: Singing
From: Alice
Date: 12 Feb 01 - 10:51 AM

Just a note, PLEASE, people, don't sing with your head stretched out and chin pointing up. That does nothing to help your voice, and in that position, it's hard to relax the muscles in your neck, jaw, and face, which you should do when you sing.

Autograph, find a voice teacher in your area and talk to them about these questions. You can call the local musicians union, univeristy, etc., to find someone who is a good voice teacher. In the other thread called Singing, Jeri linked to a list of discussions on singing that covers this. In that list I also posted many off-Mudcat website links about singing and the mechanics of the voice.

An exercise to strengthen the voice, which seems to be part of the problem you described with your children's choir voices, is called "messa di voce". Here is a page on that exercise. CLICK HERE TO READ On a single note, with good breath support, you sing from soft to loud and then back to soft again. You have to know how to teach the children to have good breath support to do this. Teaching singing is complex, so I really think you need to find a teacher in your area and talk to him or her about your childrens chorus. Email to [e-mail] as I suggested in the other thread.

Alice

Subject: RE: Singing
From: Ella who is Sooze
Date: 12 Feb 01 - 11:28 AM

lol Alice... I should have been clearer... I didn't mean stretched out like a goose, just slightly lifted, I mean double chinned...

E

Subject: RE: Singing
From: Ella who is Sooze
Date: 12 Feb 01 - 11:29 AM

damn my typing.. not double chinned

But I'd agree with geting a singing tutor in to help outE

Subject: RE: Singing
From: Mrrzy
Date: 12 Feb 01 - 12:59 PM

The best advice I got on singing was a) from a mudcat member and b) to sing from the diaphragm instead of from the mouth. I'm not just louder now, I am actually more on tune, more on key, and less tremble-y.

And that was from a member of the mudcat, not some mudcatter's member, get your minds back above your waists!