Origins: Oakham Poachers

Subject: 'Oakham Poachers' anyone?
From: Steve D.
Date: 15 Oct 97 - 07:15 AM

Anyone have the lyrics for 'Oakham Poachers'(?). I heard John Kirkpatrick doing the song and thought it was excellent. On the subject of poaching tunes; does anyone know whether these tunes of poor poachers who always got caught and shipped off to Botany Bay/ sentenced to death were sort of anti-poaching propaganda? I'd like to here some thoughts on this. Cheers, S.D.

Subject: RE: 'Oakham Poachers' anyone?
From: Nonie Rider
Date: 15 Oct 97 - 12:52 PM

Hadn't thought of that. Most of the ones I've heard have sounded more like broadside stuff: half sensational, half sympathetic. Trash TV of the day.

Titles are hard to track by, and I don't have Kirkpatrick. Can you quote a line or two?

Primary poacher song that everyone seems to be performing now is the one beginning "Concerning of three young men/ One night in January," which the database has under the title "Bold Poachers."

Subject: Lyr Add: OAKHAM POACHERS
From: bigj
Date: 15 Oct 97 - 06:51 PM

Young men of every station, that dwell within this nation,
Pray hear my lamentation, a sad and mournful tale.
Concerning of five fine young men that lately were confined
And heavily bound in irons in Oakham county gaol.

On the ninth of January, against the laws contrary
Five young men quite unwary, a-poaching went, we hear.
Through Uppinham Woods they rambled, through bushes and through brambles,
And fired at pheasants random, which brought the keepers near.

The keepers did not enter, nor dared those woods to venture
But outside near the centre, an ambush where they stood
These young men being tired, to fly away required
Till at length young Perkins fired, and spilt the keeper's blood.

Then homewards they were making, nine pheasants they were taking
Another keeper faced them, they fired at him also.
He on the ground lay crying, like one that was a-dying
And no assistance nigh him, his blood in streams did flow.

Taken we were with speed for this inhuman deed,
Which caused our hearts to bleed, we were to prison sent;
The assizes drawing near, one of our comrades swore,
That we three brothers fired, for which we now repent.

Their names I now will mention, John, Robert and George Perkins
Three brothers tried for poaching, found guilty as we hear;
Unto the judge they cried, pray mercy don't deny us,
Oh do, my lord, have mercy all on our tender years.

May He who feeds the raven, grant these men peace in Heaven.
And their sins be forgiven, ere they resign their breath;
Never before was known three brothers confined together
Within a dreary prison and sentenced unto death.

So all young men take warning and don't the laws be scorning,
For in our day just dawning, we're cut off in our prime.
So don't the laws encroach on; two of them are transported
And the other hung at Oakham; may God forgive their crime.

As published in "The Foggy Dew" - More songs from the Hammond & Gardner MSS by Frank Purslow.

Subject: RE: 'Oakham Poachers' anyone?
From: Nonie Rider
Date: 15 Oct 97 - 08:00 PM

(Is next-to-last line missing above? Two of 'em transported?)

Definitely a dressed-up cousin of "Bold Poachers". Hope the above can be added to the DB with cross-references between 'em!

Subject: RE: 'Oakham Poachers' anyone?
From: bigj
Date: 19 Oct 97 - 08:04 PM

Yup, sorry!

Line 3 -So don't the laws encroach on - two of them were transported,

Subject: RE: 'Oakham Poachers' anyone?
From: Steve D.
Date: 20 Oct 97 - 07:14 AM

Thanks for that. It's a little more elaborate than the version I've heard but probably better for it. I'll have to sit down and learn it now.....

Subject: RE: 'Oakham Poachers' anyone?
From: Alan of Australia
Date: 20 Oct 97 - 10:07 AM

G'day,
The Oakham Poachers/Bold Poachers song is a true story - one of the three Perkins brothers was the ancestor first cousins of mine.

The detail in the song is pretty close to the truth - John (26), Robert (24) and George (23) Perkins were poaching one night & were assailed by a couple of keepers, one of whom was shot in the private parts (according to the transcript of the trial which I have seen). As a result of all this John was hung, Robert and George were confined in a hulk on the Thames where Robert died due to the appalling conditions. George was finally transported to Van Diemen's Land (Tasmania) where he served out his time. He stayed in Tasmania until his death in early middle age when a coroner's report remarked on the fact that his body was covered in scars from the lashes he had received while he was a convict.

Cheers,
Alan

Subject: RE: 'Oakham Poachers' anyone?
From: bigj
Date: 21 Oct 97 - 06:35 PM

Thanks for the information Alan. This is an example of how folkmusic works and the value of continuity between the present and the past.

Subject: Tune Add: THE OAKHAM POACHERS
From: Alan of Australia
Date: 28 Oct 97 - 10:08 AM

G'day,
Here is the tune as published in "The Foggy Dew" mentioned by bigj.

MIDI file: OAKHAM.MID

Timebase: 480

Name: THE OAKHAM POACHERS
TimeSig: 2/4 24 8
Key: G
Tempo: 050 (1200000 microsec/crotchet)
Start
0720 1 62 067 0238 0 62 067 0002 1 67 079 0238 0 67 079 0002 1 66 065 0238 0 66 065 0002 1 67 081 0238 0 67 081 0002 1 69 086 0238 0 69 086 0002 1 66 057 0238 0 66 057 0002 1 67 083 0238 0 67 083 0242 1 67 083 0118 0 67 083 0002 1 69 067 0118 0 69 067 0002 1 71 068 0238 0 71 068 0002 1 72 081 0238 0 72 081 0002 1 74 079 0238 0 74 079 0002 1 76 083 0238 0 76 083 0002 1 74 083 0238 0 74 083 0002 1 72 081 0238 0 72 081 0242 1 71 075 0118 0 71 075 0002 1 72 071 0118 0 72 071 0002 1 74 079 0238 0 74 079 0002 1 74 091 0238 0 74 091 0002 1 76 088 0238 0 76 088 0002 1 71 083 0238 0 71 083 0002 1 74 091 0238 0 74 091 0002 1 72 091 0118 0 72 091 0002 1 71 067 0118 0 71 067 0002 1 69 059 0238 0 69 059 0002 1 67 063 0238 0 67 063 0002 1 64 075 0238 0 64 075 0002 1 67 086 0238 0 67 086 0002 1 67 073 0238 0 67 073 0002 1 66 065 0238 0 66 065 0002 1 69 083 0478 0 69 083 0242 1 62 073 0238 0 62 073 0002 1 67 081 0238 0 67 081 0002 1 66 071 0238 0 66 071 0002 1 67 070 0238 0 67 070 0002 1 69 075 0238 0 69 075 0002 1 66 073 0358 0 66 073 0002 1 66 080 0118 0 66 080 0002 1 67 073 0238 0 67 073 0002 1 66 073 0118 0 66 073 0002 1 67 071 0118 0 67 071 0002 1 69 083 0238 0 69 083 0002 1 71 052 0238 0 71 052 0002 1 72 083 0238 0 72 083 0002 1 74 083 0238 0 74 083 0002 1 72 086 0238 0 72 086 0002 1 71 082 0238 0 71 082 0242 1 71 075 0118 0 71 075 0002 1 72 088 0118 0 72 088 0002 1 74 068 0118 0 74 068 0002 1 74 079 0118 0 74 079 0002 1 74 086 0238 0 74 086 0002 1 76 077 0238 0 76 077 0002 1 71 088 0238 0 71 088 0002 1 74 104 0478 0 74 104 0002 1 72 081 0238 0 72 081 0002 1 69 075 0118 0 69 075 0002 1 66 061 0118 0 66 061 0002 1 67 088 0238 0 67 088 0002 1 62 083 0238 0 62 083 0002 1 67 077 0238 0 67 077 0002 1 69 077 0238 0 69 077 0002 1 67 094 0718 0 67 094
End

To download the MIDItext software click here

ABC format:

X:1
T:The Oakham Poachers
M:2/4
Q:1/4=50
K:G
D2|G2F2G2A2|F2G2z2GA|B2c2d2e2|d2c2z2Bc|d2d2e2B2|
d2cBA2G2|E2G2G2F2|A4z2D2|G2F2G2A2|F3FG2FG|
A2B2c2d2|c2B2z2Bc|ddd2e2B2|d4c2AF|G2D2G2A2|G6||

For an explanation of this see the thread "Now you can post MIDI files".

Cheers,
Alan

Subject: Tune Add: THE OAKHAM POACHERS
From: Alan of Australia
Date: 28 Oct 97 - 10:56 AM

Try that again (still learning - there must be a space after Name:) that was a careless edit of mine.

MIDI file: OAKHAM.MID

Timebase: 480

Name: THE OAKHAM POACHERS
TimeSig: 2/4 24 8
Key: G
Tempo: 050 (1200000 microsec/crotchet)
Start
0720 1 62 067 0238 0 62 067 0002 1 67 079 0238 0 67 079 0002 1 66 065 0238 0 66 065 0002 1 67 081 0238 0 67 081 0002 1 69 086 0238 0 69 086 0002 1 66 057 0238 0 66 057 0002 1 67 083 0238 0 67 083 0242 1 67 083 0118 0 67 083 0002 1 69 067 0118 0 69 067 0002 1 71 068 0238 0 71 068 0002 1 72 081 0238 0 72 081 0002 1 74 079 0238 0 74 079 0002 1 76 083 0238 0 76 083 0002 1 74 083 0238 0 74 083 0002 1 72 081 0238 0 72 081 0242 1 71 075 0118 0 71 075 0002 1 72 071 0118 0 72 071 0002 1 74 079 0238 0 74 079 0002 1 74 091 0238 0 74 091 0002 1 76 088 0238 0 76 088 0002 1 71 083 0238 0 71 083 0002 1 74 091 0238 0 74 091 0002 1 72 091 0118 0 72 091 0002 1 71 067 0118 0 71 067 0002 1 69 059 0238 0 69 059 0002 1 67 063 0238 0 67 063 0002 1 64 075 0238 0 64 075 0002 1 67 086 0238 0 67 086 0002 1 67 073 0238 0 67 073 0002 1 66 065 0238 0 66 065 0002 1 69 083 0478 0 69 083 0242 1 62 073 0238 0 62 073 0002 1 67 081 0238 0 67 081 0002 1 66 071 0238 0 66 071 0002 1 67 070 0238 0 67 070 0002 1 69 075 0238 0 69 075 0002 1 66 073 0358 0 66 073 0002 1 66 080 0118 0 66 080 0002 1 67 073 0238 0 67 073 0002 1 66 073 0118 0 66 073 0002 1 67 071 0118 0 67 071 0002 1 69 083 0238 0 69 083 0002 1 71 052 0238 0 71 052 0002 1 72 083 0238 0 72 083 0002 1 74 083 0238 0 74 083 0002 1 72 086 0238 0 72 086 0002 1 71 082 0238 0 71 082 0242 1 71 075 0118 0 71 075 0002 1 72 088 0118 0 72 088 0002 1 74 068 0118 0 74 068 0002 1 74 079 0118 0 74 079 0002 1 74 086 0238 0 74 086 0002 1 76 077 0238 0 76 077 0002 1 71 088 0238 0 71 088 0002 1 74 104 0478 0 74 104 0002 1 72 081 0238 0 72 081 0002 1 69 075 0118 0 69 075 0002 1 66 061 0118 0 66 061 0002 1 67 088 0238 0 67 088 0002 1 62 083 0238 0 62 083 0002 1 67 077 0238 0 67 077 0002 1 69 077 0238 0 69 077 0002 1 67 094 0718 0 67 094
End

Cheers,
Alan

Subject: RE: 'Oakham Poachers' anyone?
From: Martin Ryan
Date: 28 Oct 97 - 01:05 PM

Nice set of words! Sounds a lot like "The Boys of Mullaghbawn", with the very Irish triple rhymes.

Regards

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Oakham Poachers
From: GUEST,Sara Goddard
Date: 31 Mar 14 - 05:14 PM

Hey, This is almost 20 years on from the last post but I'm in a group doing an educational project and we're hoping to use the story of the Perkins'brothers. Particularly interested tohear from you Alan if you're still around. Can you give me any more details?

Regards

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Oakham Poachers
From: GUEST,Tudy McLain
Date: 25 Jan 18 - 03:35 PM

I've pondered this song for 40 years, first hasving heard the Steeleye version. It seems biased toward the poachers. We never heard what happened to the keeper. Was he the one that died? We're the other keepers hurt? Who got the pheasants? Tudy

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Oakham Poachers
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 25 Jan 18 - 03:53 PM

It reads almost like a newspaper report of the event but the writer has obvious sympathy with the poachers and it was very likely written by an Irish immigrant as someone has remarked. This triple rhyming (overkill) is rarely found this side of the Irish Sea but is common on Irish printed broadsides.

Wiggy Smith can be heard singing a version on Topic TSCD668 'To catch a fine Buck was my delight' and on the Musical Traditions MTCD307 'Band of Gold'.

The event is described in great detail at

www.rutlandhistory.org/HRW/chapter-007

The ballad was quite widely printed on broadsides.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Oakham Poachers
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 25 Jan 18 - 03:56 PM

Oakham Poachers

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Oakham Poachers
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 25 Jan 18 - 03:57 PM

Yes! My first blue clicky!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Oakham Poachers
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 25 Jan 18 - 04:06 PM

That doesn't work!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Oakham Poachers
From: GUEST,Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 27 Jan 18 - 07:38 AM

Oakham Poachers

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Oakham Poachers
From: GUEST,Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 27 Jan 18 - 07:45 AM

Sorry entered by accident and before I checked the link.

I was going to say to Steve that your link didn't work because you created a mudcat local link, which in this case doesn't exist. You need to put the https part at the start to make an offsite link, Also, your address contained a space between and history which should not be there. The correct link is:

Oakham Poachers (which will get you a pdf download)

Mick

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Oakham Poachers
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 27 Jan 18 - 01:00 PM

Nice one, Mick.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Oakham Poachers
From: Tradsinger
Date: 28 Jan 18 - 01:38 PM

Just discovered this thread, which I find very interesting. Wiggy Smith, the Gloucestershire gypsy, sang the song. You can hear his version here.

Wiggy told me that it was a true story and that his family were the perpetrators but how much veracity you can place on this claim is doubtful. I was therefore interested in the reference to the Perkins brothers. I see that the broadside, dated between 1863 and 1865 does mention the Perkins brothers, so that seems good evidence for me.

PS - Mick and Steve - I can't get your hyperlinks to work.

Tradsinger

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Oakham Poachers
From: GUEST,Mick Pearce
Date: 28 Jan 18 - 02:24 PM

Tradsinger - you need to use my link from 07:45 am post. The 07:38 doesn't work - I accidentally posted it while I was still checking the link.

(Maybe mudelf can remove my 07:38 post)

Mick

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Oakham Poachers
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 28 Jan 18 - 03:09 PM

Gwilym,
Try going to the rutlandhistory.org site and look through chapter 7. There isn't quite as much detail as I thought but I think I have seen a detailed account somewhere. It happened in 1833 I think and is probably reported in the newspapers of the time.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Oakham Poachers
From: Tradsinger
Date: 28 Jan 18 - 05:25 PM

Thanks for that, Steve and Mick. I'll amend the entry on the glostrad site. It makes Wiggy's explanation a bit fanciful but why spoil a good story with the truth!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Oakham Poachers
From: Brian Peters
Date: 30 Jan 18 - 08:04 PM

Nice work, Mick and Steve,

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Oakham Poachers
From: GUEST,Anne Aggiss nee perkins
Date: 30 Dec 18 - 06:26 AM

I'm a direct descendant also

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Oakham Poachers
From: GUEST,Tim Clough
Date: 18 Mar 19 - 07:07 AM

Most interested to read this thread. The story is a true one, that of the three brothers John, Robert and George Perkins who were caught with William Lomas poaching in Empingham Woods, Rutland, on 30th January 1833. They fired on and wounded the gamekeeper Thomas Peach, who survived to give evidence against them at their trial before Judge Denman at Oakham Castle in the following month. The three brothers were sentenced to death but only John was hanged. The gallows still survive in the Rutland County Museum. Various versions of the ballad can be viewed online on the Bodleian Library website at http://ballads.bodleian.ox.ac.uk/search/roud/1686, and there is an article in our journal Rutland Record 18 (1998)pp342-49, accessible free at http://www.rutlandhistory.org/rutlandrecord/rr18.pdf. We did know that there were descendants and would be happy to be in contact do message me at [e-mail]. The reference given by Steve Gardham above to 'Chapter 7' is to our publication Heritage of Rutland Water - go to pp 136-7 for details.

Subject: RE: Origins: Oakham Poachers
From: Joe Offer
Date: 02 Aug 21 - 04:12 PM

Any other versions?

Subject: RE: Origins: Oakham Poachers
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 03 Aug 21 - 06:12 AM

Goliath 'Gillie' Cole sang the song to Gardiner. The Cole family have sent me a photo of Gillie Cole (Gillie means singer in Romany)
I have permission to publish it. It's in my new book. (See separate thread) I sent it to John K. who said he looked remarkably similar to his Grand Father! Joe if you want the photo I'll send it through.
Nick

Subject: RE: Origins: Oakham Poachers
From: GUEST,#
Date: 04 Aug 21 - 04:34 PM

"Any other versions?"

There are versions on YT from John Kirkpatrick, Shirley Collins, Wiggy Smith and also Steve Knightley.

Subject: RE: Origins: Oakham Poachers
From: GeoffLawes
Date: 07 Aug 21 - 04:13 AM

Various performances on YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=The+Oakham+Poachers

Subject: RE: Origins: Oakham Poachers
From: Joe Offer
Date: 26 Jun 23 - 05:40 PM

Take a look at https://mainlynorfolk.info/martin.carthy/songs/theoakhampoachers.html