Help: Performance contracts

Subject: Performance contracts
From: Kim C
Date: 21 Feb 01 - 12:23 PM

Sometimes we play for people who have us sign a contract, sometimes we don't. Mister and I think we need to have a contract for those institutions that don't regularly use one as we have been shorted somewhat in the past. Not badly, mind you, but had we had a signed contract, there would have been no misunderstanding.

We were also thinking we should have one even for charitable events where we aren't being paid, stipulating that we must be included in the pre-event publicity.

How do some of you handle these things?

Subject: RE: Help: Performance contracts
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 21 Feb 01 - 12:28 PM

Nobody ever pays me to play or sing. But you should get a contract. THe snag is that if you no-show you could contrariwise get sued for the organiser's losses resulting from your breach of contract. But if you want food after a long journey, or a bed for the night that is not a campsite on the sofa, or are allergic to something, or need PA or want expenses on top of the agreed fee (or want to make sure the fee is agreed) one is really a must.

Subject: RE: Help: Performance contracts
From: Ella who is Sooze
Date: 21 Feb 01 - 12:36 PM

We don't always have a contract either... Even for paid ones... Usually for big gigs we do...

Watch out for the bit in some contracts drawn up by others, that state, in the even of the 'artists' not turning up, they are expected to pay half... or all the money agreed for the nights payment... I noticed this on one contract, and sent it back, saying this was NOT part of our verbal agreement.

Usually we go on verbal agreements, with places like pubs... as they are usually a nice lot, and we after a while, develop quite good contacts with the landlord/lady.

I would agree to the bit about charitable events, and being publicised... We usually sort out too - who is going to publicise the event...

and most of all, don't forget to really really read into those lines... some people's contracts, can be worded very cleverly indeed.

We have been shorted occasionally, but it is usually a misunderstanding..

Ella \

Subject: RE: Help: Performance contracts
From: Ella who is Sooze
Date: 21 Feb 01 - 12:39 PM

We don't always have a contract either... Even for paid ones... Usually for big gigs we do...

Watch out for the bit in some contracts drawn up by others, that state, in the even of the 'artists' not turning up, they are expected to pay half... or all the money agreed for the nights payment... I noticed this on one contract, and sent it back, saying this was NOT part of our verbal agreement.

Usually we go on verbal agreements, with places like pubs... as they are usually a nice lot, and we after a while, develop quite good contacts with the landlord/lady.

I would agree to the bit about charitable events, and being publicised... We usually sort out too - who is going to publicise the event...

and most of all, don't forget to really really read into those lines... some people's contracts, can be worded very cleverly indeed.

We have been shorted occasionally, but it is usually a misunderstanding..

Ella \

Subject: RE: Help: Performance contracts
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 21 Feb 01 - 12:41 PM

Oh, yes, and watch out for the "Sparks in the Park" clause - that entitles every jobsworth in the local council to turn you off and to sue you for all resulting losses if anything you so is risque or might be thought offensive. We had that with Maidstone Borough Council, who did not think it funny when I told them that folk music was about 600 years of rape exploitation and murder.

Subject: RE: Help: Performance contracts
From: Kim C
Date: 21 Feb 01 - 01:27 PM

Usually we play at historic sites, or for groups of that nature, and USUALLY they don't have a problem with any of our songs. We are sensitive to the fact that some people are sensitive so if there's any questions about sensitivity we try to nip that in the bud. ;)

Subject: RE: Help: Performance contracts
From: GUEST,emily b
Date: 21 Feb 01 - 02:15 PM

My band doesn't have a contract and have only once or twice been asked to sign one, but last St. Patrick's Day, I wish I'd had my own. We were asked by a booking agent to play at a bar. We verbally agreed on the net fee to the band. I asked for a contract but never received one. I didn't worry; we'd done the gig the year before and all went fine.

After the gig, the bar manager paid me. However, at first she tried to pay $100 more than what I'd agreed on with the agent. I was very honest and told them they were overpaying (I thought the extra $100 was for the sound guys). The manager didn't argue and I left with what I'd agreed to take.

A few weeks later, I got a call from the owner of the agency. He chewed me out, saying that I was supposed to have taken the extra money, that part of it was their fee which they were now having a terrible time getting from the bar.

At no time had the agent mentioned anything about me picking up the total amount and then paying back the agency their commission. Who would trust a bunch of folk musicians to do that anyway? I got pissed at someone yelling at me when I all I had been was honest. He was pissed at me, blaming me for his coming up short.

I doubt this agency will ever call me again.

Had I sent them my own contract, this wouldn't have been an issue.

I do think contracts are a good idea. Do read them carefully though.

Good luck,

Emily

Subject: RE: Help: Performance contracts
From: Gray Rooster
Date: 21 Feb 01 - 03:18 PM

A simple written agreement is easy to write. Include the things that are expected to be delivered and leave space for additions. You could write a one that covers as many scenerios as you can think of and if the establihment doesn't like something in the contract, they can initial it (you too) and void parts of it.

Bring up the contract talks quickly (read casual), as a normal course of doing business. I tend to shy away from any business or person not inclined to sign something. If their word is their bond, a signature shouln't get in the way. Tell them you need it for your accountant (or just Tax purposes).

My only rule is: A contract is for me -- to remember what I said.

Subject: RE: Help: Performance contracts
From: Justa Picker
Date: 21 Feb 01 - 04:25 PM

Always have a contract (and cover your butt) so that there can never ever be any misunderstandings from things verbally agreed on, prior to.

Any establishment that refuses to sign a contract, is a place that you don't want to be involved with. The contract simply formalizes the verbal agreement, and neither party should be uptight about signing one, unless they plan to reneg on their word to what was agreed upon.

Subject: RE: Help: Performance contracts
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 21 Feb 01 - 04:42 PM

There's a really great web site that talks about music contracts at http://www.alanrowoth.com/contracts.html . Easy to read and informative.

~ Becky in Tucson, AZ

Subject: RE: Help: Performance contracts
From: GUEST,Phil Cooper
Date: 21 Feb 01 - 06:14 PM

We're another group that has sent contracts, but often does bookings without having one. For large fees usually the organization hiring you will provide a contract (yes, read it all!) If I think a person talking to me about a booking is a flake, I will send a contract along with photos to make sure they know that we expect to get whatever the agreed upon amount is. Sometimes that will prompt a call back, saying that's not what they had in mind. If we're going to be cancelled, I'd rather find out about it before we leave for the gig. For the amount of money involved in a lot of folk bookings, there's not much legal recourse even if there is a contract (not worth taking it to court). It does show the venue/booker that you intend to show up and play and get paid. It also gives you an idea that the venue/booker is expecting you, and will follow through with intent to pay. We've been stiffed twice in our 18 odd years of performing. I believe it's because we don't play many bars (I've heard some real horror stories from Rock bands consistently being stiffed and shorted) and many people hiring us really like what we do. I've found that some people who can't quite get their act together to return a contract, still provide us with a good time, when the gig happens. You need to go with a gut instinct to figure out if you want to push the contract issue or not.

Subject: RE: Help: Performance contracts
From: Ella who is Sooze
Date: 22 Feb 01 - 05:05 AM

and another thing... watch out for dodgy agents!

We had an odd one, lets just say, we have not got him now!

We try to promote ourselves... and get gigs by word of mouth...

I always said that I didn't really trust the fella!

Agents... PUH HUH HAH!!!!

E (very cynical at the moment)

Subject: RE: Help: Performance contracts
From: Deni
Date: 22 Feb 01 - 06:59 AM

i joined the Musician's Union , which now has a Folk, Roots and Trad Section. They supply you with carefully worded contracts, which make it easier to reclaim money in the event of a dispute.

Nice but dull.

Byee

Subject: RE: Help: Performance contracts
From: English Jon
Date: 22 Feb 01 - 09:40 AM

Emily, It's quite common for agents to work on a basis that the band gets paid the full fee, and then they pay the agent his commission, usualy within 28 days. However, if you haven't got a contract with the agent explaining all of this and signed by all parties, it's a bit crap of him to expect you to know that. Doesn't sound too clued up to me. However, he should be able to get his commission straight from the venue.you can probably find a better agent.

Ella, Who was your agent, and what did he do?

Jon

Subject: RE: Help: Performance contracts
From: Kim C
Date: 22 Feb 01 - 10:26 AM

thanks y'all. We are our own agents and while we haven't ever been stiffed, we have been disappointed, especially at not having our names in pre-event promotion. And when we're not working for money, that publicity is really important, at least I think it is. Believe it or not, there are a handful of people who will go to an event Just to See Us. And they all have friends. ;)

Subject: RE: Help: Performance contracts
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Feb 01 - 07:11 AM

Hi Jon...

Don't want to name any names...

His best trick, was to book two groups, us and another, for the same venue and same night... We just so happened to turn up earlier than the other - and were already set up... When in trouped through the door, some other group... with all their equipment... How embaressing.!

Another, occasion was we were booked for a Sat night do.. and rang the venue to see confirm with them - as agent had not rung us to do so... and the pub said.. oh we have no music tonight... at all.. He had not even bothered to tell us that we were not wanted there anymore, and we had turned down other gigs for that particular night - we only found out that Sat afternoon about that!

So, I don't really trust agents at the moment! It's not just us who had the problems... we chatted to some of the other people 'on his books' and they had the same problems.

But don't want to name names - not on the internet anyways...

very cynical about agents now though!

Now we too do our own agent stuff - much easier! E.

Subject: RE: Help: Performance contracts
From: GUEST,Ella on the puter at work that is NOT broken
Date: 23 Feb 01 - 07:13 AM

Sorry about that everyone.. forgot to say it was me on the from bit...

NOw I have 2 broken computers..... one at home and the one at work...

I am starting to think is it me....?

E ;)