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Origins: Whiskey In The Jar

DigiTrad:
GILGARRY MOUNTAIN (There's whiskey in the jar)
WHISKEY, YOU'RE THE DIVIL


Related threads:
meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da (103)
(origins) Origins: Musha ringum duram da... (115)
Firearms query from 'Whiskey in the Jar' (72)
Whiskey in the Jar by the young fellow (2)
Whiskey in the Jar - Irish? Appalachian? (60)
Lyr Req: Whisky in the Jar parody (10)
Whiskey in the Jar (36)
Lyr Req: Whisky in Jar, Jug of Punch (23)
Lyr Req: Scriptures on the wall (2)
Lyr Req: Tequila in the jar (8)
Lyr Req: Bold Lovell (6)
Lord, There's alot of Whiskey in the jar (19)
Why is Whisky In The Jar... (32)
Whiskey in the Jar (12)
Tune Req: Whisky in the Jar (4)
Gilgarry Mountain a/k/a Whiskey in the Jar (14)
Lyr Req: Whiskey in the Jar (2) (closed)


In Mudcat MIDIs:
Bold Lovell


Paul 18 Oct 97 - 02:40 PM
Tim Jaques tjaques@netcom.ca 18 Oct 97 - 04:34 PM
rich r 18 Oct 97 - 08:54 PM
dick greenhaus 21 Oct 97 - 01:41 PM
Martin Ryan 21 Oct 97 - 03:40 PM
alison 21 Oct 97 - 06:22 PM
Tim Jaques tjaques@netcom.ca 21 Oct 97 - 06:46 PM
Nonie Rider 21 Oct 97 - 07:27 PM
Tim Jaques tjaques@netcom.ca 22 Oct 97 - 05:03 PM
Nonie Rider 22 Oct 97 - 07:51 PM
Ricky Rackin 22 Oct 97 - 11:23 PM
Wolfgang Hell 23 Oct 97 - 03:19 AM
Ted from Australia 23 Oct 97 - 09:32 AM
Ted from Australia 23 Oct 97 - 09:35 AM
Nonie Rider 23 Oct 97 - 02:42 PM
Tim Jaques tjaques@netcom.ca 24 Oct 97 - 03:58 PM
Nonie Rider 24 Oct 97 - 04:53 PM
Lidi 25 Oct 97 - 05:54 AM
BK 26 Oct 97 - 01:12 AM
lesblank 26 Oct 97 - 06:26 PM
szarak@telesys.net.pl 27 Oct 97 - 10:22 AM
Nonie Rider 27 Oct 97 - 01:24 PM
Nonie Rider 27 Oct 97 - 01:29 PM
LaMarca 27 Oct 97 - 04:52 PM
Benjamin Hollister also from Australia 27 Oct 97 - 08:17 PM
Tim Jaques tjaques@netcom.ca 27 Oct 97 - 08:52 PM
Benjamin Bodhra/nai 29 Oct 97 - 06:35 PM
Nigel Sellars 24 Nov 97 - 02:25 PM
Barry 24 Nov 97 - 05:13 PM
Tim Jaques tjaques@netcom.ca 24 Nov 97 - 07:39 PM
Nigel Sellars 25 Nov 97 - 09:30 AM
Nigel Sellars 26 Nov 97 - 02:33 PM
Nonie Rider 01 Dec 97 - 12:52 PM
Tim Jaques tjaques@netcom.ca 01 Dec 97 - 08:30 PM
Timothy Jaques tjaques@netcom.ca 15 Jan 98 - 04:57 PM
Denis 15 Jan 98 - 07:08 PM
Pejotka 15 Jan 98 - 07:25 PM
Bruce O. 15 Jan 98 - 09:33 PM
Bob Bolton 01 Jul 98 - 07:48 PM
Barry Finn 01 Jul 98 - 10:04 PM
Bob Bolton 02 Jul 98 - 02:10 AM
Barry Finn 07 Jul 98 - 07:38 PM
Bert 08 Jul 98 - 12:16 PM
Bill D 08 Jul 98 - 08:18 PM
Bob Bolton 12 Jul 98 - 07:14 PM
BK 12 Jul 98 - 11:50 PM
Alan of Australia 13 Jul 98 - 11:01 AM
Barry Finn 13 Jul 98 - 02:29 PM
06 Dec 98 - 12:48 PM
Sandy 07 Dec 98 - 10:08 PM
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Subject: Whiskey In The Jar
From: Paul
Date: 18 Oct 97 - 02:40 PM

I was searching the data base for this song (Whiskey In the Jar)after realizing I don't the words to it, to my surprise I couldn't find it. Does anyone know if it may be under a different name or not. Thanks

Paul


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Subject: Lyr Add: WHISKEY IN THE JAR
From: Tim Jaques tjaques@netcom.ca
Date: 18 Oct 97 - 04:34 PM

An internet search came up with these lyrics, which are similar to the ones I've usually heard. The search also came up with many strange variations I had never heard.

There is usually also a verse after his capture, but before he mentions his brother, which documents his punching out the sentry and making his escape from jail in Sligo.

There is also a variation of this song called "Bold Lovell", aka "The Devil's In The Women". It is sung to a different tune and has a different (although more intelligible) chorus cursing the treachery of his bawd, although the storyline is much the same. (I've always thought that it would be a good exercise to write a version of Whiskey In The Jar from his girlfriend's perspective, explaining why she turned him in to the authorities.) In the Bold Lovell variation, he doesn't escape and he gets hanged.

I copied these from a site and take no responsibility for complete accuracy. Is there really a Kilmagenny mountain?


As I was going over the Kilmagenny mountain
I met with Captain Farrell and his money he was counting.
I first produced my pistol, and then produced my rapier.
Said stand and deliver, for I am a bold deceiver,

Chorus:
musha ring dumma do damma da
whack for the daddy 'ol
whack for the daddy 'ol
there's whiskey in the jar

I counted out his money, and it made a pretty penny.
I put it in my pocket and I brought it home to Jenny.
She said and she swore, that she never would deceive me,
but the devil take the women, for they never can be easy

Chorus

I went into my chamber, for to take a slumber,
I dreamt of gold and jewels and for sure it was no wonder.
But Jenny took my charges and she filled them up with water,
and sent for Captain Farrell to be ready for the slaughter.

Chorus

It was early in the morning, before I rose to travel,
the guards were all around me and likewise Captain Farrell.
I first produced my pistol, for she stole away my rapier,
but I couldn't shoot the water so a prisoner I was taken.

Chorus

If anyone can aid me, it's my brother in the army,
if I can find his station in Cork or in Killarney.
And if he'll come and save me, we'll go roving near Kilkenny,
and I swear he'll treat me better than me darling sporting Jenny

Chorus

Now some men take delight in the drinking and the roving,
but others take delight in the gambling and the smoking.
But I take delight in the juice of the barley,
and courting pretty Jenny in the morning bright and early

Chorus

(Note: Last verse is usually

Now some take delight in the carriages a-rolling
And others their delight in the hurley and the bowling
But me I take my pleasure in the juice of the barley
And courting pretty girls in the morning bright and early


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Subject: RE: Whiskey In The Jar
From: rich r
Date: 18 Oct 97 - 08:54 PM

Search DT with "whiskey and jar" and you should get a couple versions of this song

rich r


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Subject: RE: Whiskey In The Jar
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 21 Oct 97 - 01:41 PM

FWIW- If you search for whisky (Scots becerage) you won't find whiskey (everybody else's tipple. If you search for whixk* you'll get both (as well as whiskers and whisked). If you search for [in the jar] you'll find all the songs that use that phrase (the square brackets specify a phrase}


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Subject: RE: Whiskey In The Jar
From: Martin Ryan
Date: 21 Oct 97 - 03:40 PM

Tim

I think the usual location when sung in Ireland is "Cork and Kerry mountains" or "Kilgarry Mountain". Not sure if the latter exists. I'll check.

Regards


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Subject: RE: Whiskey In The Jar
From: alison
Date: 21 Oct 97 - 06:22 PM

Hi,

the nearest I could find to it was a town called Kilmaganny, which is near the Booley Hills, (just North East of Carrick on Suir), but I don't think it's right because this is on the other side of the country from the Cork and Kerry Mountains, which always made more sense to me.

slainte

alison


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Subject: Lyr Add: BOLD LOVELL (from Roy Harris)
From: Tim Jaques tjaques@netcom.ca
Date: 21 Oct 97 - 06:46 PM

Martin, I always thought it was Cork and Kerry mountains too.

The Bold Lovell version, the lyrics of which except for the chorus could be sung (perhaps with slight adjustments) to the tune of Whiskey in the Jar, says "across the the misty mountains".

I think its Irish and Bourbon "whiskey", and Scotch and Rye "whisky".

Here is Bold Lovell. I got it off of Roy Harris's "Champions of Folly", a long deleted Topic LP from the 1970's. I think that I have the chorus right in the last line, although with his accent and the slur it could as easily be "Ah the women cannot let a fellow be." I think it's "devil" though. (Curse all recordings without lyrics sheets) Maybe someone has it in a songbook. Sir Walter Scott apparently asked his son in Ireland to find him the lyrics.


BOLD LOVELL

As Lovell was out riding out across the misty mountains
Two merchants, two merchants, their money they was counting
He reached for his pistol, and he never gave them warning
He robbed them of their money and he bade them both good morning

Chorus
Oh, the devil's in the women so they say,
Ah the devil cannot let a fellow be

He went to a public house and counted out his money
He called on the landlady to bring forth pretty Polly
But while they was talking, and thinking of no matter
She stole away his pistol and she filled it up with water

Chorus

As Lovell and Polly were taking their sweet pleasure
In walked the troopers saying "Lovell, you must leave her
For a long time you've been on the road to the gallows
So some along with us young man and be a decent fellow

Chorus

He reached for his pistols but they wouldn't fire for water
They lathered him well and gave to him no quarter
Polly, she cried, "If I'd known that they was coming,
I'd have fought them like a tiger, love, even though I am a woman

Chorus

"I have two brothers and they're in the Marines
One of them's at Chatham and the other one's at sea
Bold, frisk and lively lads, and champions of folly
I'd rather they was here today than you deceitful Polly

Chorus

As Lovell was climbing up that old gallows ladder
He called out so gaily for his highway cap and feather
"Well, I've always been a lively lad, but never murdered any
I think it bloody hard to swing for liftin' a bit of money!

Chorus


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Subject: RE: Whiskey In The Jar
From: Nonie Rider
Date: 21 Oct 97 - 07:27 PM

Cool! I've never seen the Kilmagenny and Lovell versions, only Kilgary and Gilgarra.


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Subject: RE: Whiskey In The Jar
From: Tim Jaques tjaques@netcom.ca
Date: 22 Oct 97 - 05:03 PM

Error about the pistol.

Should be, of course,

"She stole away his pistol and she filled it up with water".

Also in the next verse it should be singular for the pistol, as he only seems to have had one.

No matter how careful I try to be in typing things I manage to screw it up somehow.:(


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Subject: RE: Whiskey In The Jar
From: Nonie Rider
Date: 22 Oct 97 - 07:51 PM

Joe Haldeman used to sing this as he'd learned it:

"I drew forth me pistols and I brandished me sabre"
(spoken: "With my THIRD hand...")

--Nonie


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Subject: RE: Whiskey In The Jar
From: Ricky Rackin
Date: 22 Oct 97 - 11:23 PM

Anybody know the version :"Es tequilla in the Jar" whose chorus goes:

Muchos gringos trabajar We're from the Barrio [3x] Es tequilla in the Jar!

Obviously set to the standard tune.


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Subject: RE: Whiskey In The Jar
From: Wolfgang Hell
Date: 23 Oct 97 - 03:19 AM

a long shot without corroboration: One name for the highest mountains in Ireland (Co. Kerry) is the "MacGillycuddy's reeks". Kilgarry, Kilmagenny could be a mishearing for the middle part of that place name.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: Whiskey In The Jar
From: Ted from Australia
Date: 23 Oct 97 - 09:32 AM

Also another verse:
They put me into prison without a Judge or writin'
for robbing Captain Farrell on Kilgarry mountain
But they did not take my fists so i knocked the gaoler (jailer,for you yanks)down
And I bid a fond farewll to that gaol in Salom (pronounced sal-m) town


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Subject: RE: Whiskey In The Jar
From: Ted from Australia
Date: 23 Oct 97 - 09:35 AM

Farewll pronounced@#*


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Subject: RE: Whiskey In The Jar
From: Nonie Rider
Date: 23 Oct 97 - 02:42 PM

No, I hadn't heard "Tequila in the Jar." Sounds wonderful! Source or lyrics please (please, please)?


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Subject: RE: Whiskey In The Jar
From: Tim Jaques tjaques@netcom.ca
Date: 24 Oct 97 - 03:58 PM

I've heard it as "I knocked the sentry down".


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Subject: RE: Whiskey In The Jar
From: Nonie Rider
Date: 24 Oct 97 - 04:53 PM

I'm also heard "And I bid a fond farewell to that judge in Sligo town."


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Subject: RE: Whiskey In The Jar
From: Lidi
Date: 25 Oct 97 - 05:54 AM

About the mountain.....I have heard; "...over the far-farmed Kerry mountains.."

Cheers

Lidi


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Subject: RE: Whiskey In The Jar
From: BK
Date: 26 Oct 97 - 01:12 AM

Somewhere long ago I learned "Gilgarry Mountain." Probably no more likely to be accurate than anything else. It's the spirit that counts.

It is a "blackguarding" song, (automatically rowdy/amoral/offensive/anti-social/immature/irresponsible, etc..), but I've also wondered about the girlfriend's point of view; Maybe she doesn't want to be asociated with this damn fool bozo who blithely robs a prominant local citizen, (apparently assuming nothing effective will be done to him?) and thereby puts her, by association, into the role of accomplice, and in jepardy of a jail sentance, or transportation to one of the dreaded - probably for good reason - penal colonies, etc, etc... She probably was better off without this clod..

Cheers, BK


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Subject: RE: Whiskey In The Jar
From: lesblank
Date: 26 Oct 97 - 06:26 PM

For my money, the definitive version of this oldie is done by the Limeliters on their 1962 or 63 album ,"Sing Out". It has some similarity to the lyrics on this thread but it is exactly like the old Burl Ives Columbia album of the early 60's. In any case, a great cause for swappin'.

Thanks !!


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Subject: RE: Whiskey In The Jar
From: szarak@telesys.net.pl
Date: 27 Oct 97 - 10:22 AM

Here is how we sing it in Poland:

As I was going over the far fam'd Kerry Mountains,

I met with Captain Farrel, and his money he was countin',

I first produced my pistol, and I than produced my rapier,

Sayin': "Stand and deliver for you are my bold deceiver".

Slainte

Szarak


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Subject: Lyr Add: KILGARY MOUNTAIN (from Joe Haldeman)
From: Nonie Rider
Date: 27 Oct 97 - 01:24 PM

Well, if we're gonna swap versions, this is what I remember of how Joe Haldeman sings it. I don't know his source, but's pretty clearly a folked-over version, since it's got two names for the colonel and THREE for the woman, three hands worth of weapons, and a farewell to a judge he didn't have.

KILGARY MOUNTAIN

As I was a walkin' over Kilgary mountain,
I met with Colonel Pepper and his money he was countin'.
I drew forth me pistols and I brandished my sabre,
Saying "Stand and deliver, for I am a bold deceiver,"

(Cho)
Musha ringum durum da,
Wack fol the derry o,
Wack fol the derry o,
There's whiskey in the jar.

Them shiny golden coins sure did look bright and pretty,
I took the money home, and I gave it to my Kitty.
She swore and she promised that she never would deceive me,
But the Devil's in the women; they can always lie so easy.

Now when I awoke, 'twas around six or seven,
Guards were all around me in numbers odd and even
I drew forth me pistols, but alas I was mistaken,
For Molly'd poured the powder out, and a prisoner I was taken.

They put me into jail, without a judge or writin',
For robbing Colonel Pepper up on Kilgary Mountain;
But they didn't take me fists, so I knocked the sentry down,
And I bid a last farewell to that judge in Sligo town.

I'm going to join me brother, the one who's in the army,
And I don't care where he's stationed, in Killare or Killarney.
And with him I'll go roaming to the mountains and the city,
And I'm sure he'll treat me better than my darling sporting Jenny.

Now some takes delight in the fishing or the bowling;
Others takes delight in the carriages a-rolling;
But I takes delight in the fruit of the barley
And courting pretty women in the morning O so early.


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Subject: RE: Whiskey In The Jar
From: Nonie Rider
Date: 27 Oct 97 - 01:29 PM

(Whoops--only one name for the Colonel above. I THINK his version has one Colonel Pepper and one Captain Farrell, but I don't remember where.)


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Subject: RE: Whiskey In The Jar
From: LaMarca
Date: 27 Oct 97 - 04:52 PM

Then there's the version my husband sings:
As I was goin' over the (something somethin) mountain,
I met with Colonel Sanders as his chickens he was countin'...

Chorus:With a little hydrolyzed chicken distillate,
Monosodium glutamate,
Di-sodium guanylate,
That's how we make the sauce!


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Subject: RE: Whiskey In The Jar
From: Benjamin Hollister also from Australia
Date: 27 Oct 97 - 08:17 PM

I first heard this thru' the Seekers with the Col. Pepper and the verse about escaping from gaol, and going over the Kilgarry Mts. Then I heard the far famed Kerry mountains, so Sligo Town didn't fit too well anymore, so I substituted dTra/ Li/ (Tralee) Town.

Alos the verse when he wakes as:

Twas early in the morning before I rose to travel Up came a band of footmen and likewise Capt. Farrell I reached for me pistols for she'd stol'n away me rapier (sabre, whatever) But I couldn't shoot (fire) the water so a prisoner I was taken.

This has got to be one of the all time great almost impossible to sing along to songs as everyone knows different words. True folk!!!

The chorus even changes:

With a Whack fol the darry oh

or

With a muisheen a ring a down

Still great song

Sla/n a chairde

benjamin


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Subject: RE: Whiskey In The Jar
From: Tim Jaques tjaques@netcom.ca
Date: 27 Oct 97 - 08:52 PM

The Dubliners sing "the far-famed Kerry mountains", with other variations on the first version I posted.

What is the chorus supposed to be? Is it a corruption of some Irish words?


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Subject: RE: Whiskey In The Jar
From: Benjamin Bodhra/nai
Date: 29 Oct 97 - 06:35 PM

The nonsense in the chorus' of irish and Scottish songs seems to be just that - nonsense. You can see the same thing in Puirt a Beul - "i/ bhi/ a bhi/ u/ bhi/ a bhi/" (ee vi ar vi oo vi ar vi) though bhi/ is a word, or in Domhnaill Antaidh "hi/ ri/ iu/l eile".

Often they are just sounds that allow the rhythym to be kept and that large numbers of people can sing. That's my thought anyway. I actually tried to write the words for Whiskey's chorus in Irish and then translate and I never had much success.


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Subject: RE: Whiskey In The Jar
From: Nigel Sellars
Date: 24 Nov 97 - 02:25 PM

Tim jaques sent me a copy of Roy Harris' version, which I first heard twenty years ago on a PBS special on the Philly Folk Fest where it was sung by Martin Carthy! (Who, alas, has never recorded it, though he's the guitarist on the Roy Harris version.) "Bold Lovell" is an English version, but I came across a Vermont version in the "Green Mountain Songster" with nearly identical words but it talks about "Plymouth Mountain"! (Should add Roy sings "pistols" not "pistol" and it's "Bold, _brisk_ , and lively lads and champions of folly," [my favorite phrase in the song]

Somewhere I once read that "Whiskey in the Jar" is actually a stage version of the song (it may have been on a Clancy Brothers' lp), though I can't say for certain that that is true. Does anyone know of earlier versions with different tunes? Whatever the case, this is the version that's supplanted all the others.

Nigel Sellars


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Subject: RE: Whiskey In The Jar
From: Barry
Date: 24 Nov 97 - 05:13 PM

Sandy & Caroline Patton also do an american version with the brother , whose in the army, is in jail somewhere in West Virginny, been so long ,thats the only bit of it I can recall. Barry


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Subject: RE: Whiskey In The Jar
From: Tim Jaques tjaques@netcom.ca
Date: 24 Nov 97 - 07:39 PM

Glad you got it, Nigel. Can you make out the Chorus? I am not convinced that I have it right but I can't make out the second line.

Thank you for the correction "brisk" for "frisk", which makes far more sense. I thought "frisk" might be the word from which we get "frisky" and it was the only thing that came to mind.


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Subject: RE: Whiskey In The Jar
From: Nigel Sellars
Date: 25 Nov 97 - 09:30 AM

Tim Jaques asked about the chorus on "Bold Lovell," and I think the second line goes : "How the devil can a fellow let them be?"


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Subject: RE: Whiskey In The Jar
From: Nigel Sellars
Date: 26 Nov 97 - 02:33 PM

Just a thought, but I'm beginning to suspect the "Bold Lovell" version is closest to the original -- as are, it seems, the Vermont, Virginia, and at least one Irish version -- in that it fits into the traditional highwaymen's "good night" category with the fellow being hanged at the end (ala "Tyburne Tree", "Sam Hall", "Allan Tyne of Harrow," and "Newlyn (Newry) Town.") I'm wondering if some of the Irish versions were altered for political reasons, that is, to show contempt for English authority by having the hero (representing Irish indepence) smash the jail (gaol) doors, a symbol of English oppression. Any takers?


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Subject: RE: Whiskey In The Jar
From: Nonie Rider
Date: 01 Dec 97 - 12:52 PM

I dunno. "There's whiskey in the jar" is an unlikely chorus for a Goodnight. Tune also seems a little cheerful for the purpose.

The Irish aren't shy; if it was intended as an Irish vs. English rewrite, I'd expect that theme to be obvious rather than hidden. And since the singer is functionally blaming his woman more than his captors, that'd be an odd feature of a political ballad unless she was explicitly considered a traitor and punished for it.

But then, I'm not a scholar of the subject, just a fan.

--Nonie


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Subject: RE: Whiskey In The Jar
From: Tim Jaques tjaques@netcom.ca
Date: 01 Dec 97 - 08:30 PM

The notes on the back of the LP indicate that it was sung by A.L. Lloyd, who learned it from print (The New Green Mountain Songster, I think it was called) and changed it around a bit, and Harris learned his version. I will get the LP back out of storage and transcribe the sleeve note in full. Other versions are mentioned in the note.

Thank you Nigel. I think that is exactly what the second line of the chorus says. For all these years I've been trying to make it out, and now that you state it it seems so obvious. . .


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Subject: RE: Whiskey In The Jar
From: Timothy Jaques tjaques@netcom.ca
Date: 15 Jan 98 - 04:57 PM

I said I would transcribe the sleeve note for Bold Lovell from Roy Harris's "Champions of Folly" LP, Topic 12TS256, recorded 1974 and released 1975, on which Harris is joined by Martin Carthy (guitar, dulcimer); Bobby Campbell (fiddle, mandola); and Vic Gammon (melodeon, concertina).
The sleeve notes are by the well-known folksinger, the late A. L. Lloyd.
I sent Dick G. a tape of this song, with the hope that he might add a midi of the tune to the database, since I do not yet have that capability. It is not the same tune as Whiskey In The Jar.


BOLD LOVELL

"The theme of this song reminds us of the capture of MacHeath in The Beggar's Opera. Was it suggested by it? Or is the ballad old enough to have put the idea into the head of John Gay who wrote the play in 1728? Sometimes the hero is named Peter or Patrick Fleming, not Lovell. Sir Walter Scott was interested in the song, but he only had a few scraps of it. In 1821 he wrote to his son Cornet Scott at Portobello Barracks, Dublin: 'I wish you would pick up for me the Irish lilt of a tune to Patrick Fleming.'From the bits that Sir Walter quotes, it's clear he had our song in mind. A close cousin is the celebrated Irish highwayman ballad 'Whiskey In The Jar'. Roy Harris learnt it some ten years ago from Mike Herring of Peterborough, who had it from A. L. Lloyd who got it from print ('The New Green Mountain Songster"), and adapted it a bit."

(Some of you may be more familiar with the twentieth century musical adaptation of The Beggar's Opera, "The Threepenny Opera" by Bertold Brecht, from which comes the song Mac The Knife.)


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Subject: RE: Whiskey In The Jar
From: Denis
Date: 15 Jan 98 - 07:08 PM

The two variations I have from my mother's singing are the Cork and Kerry mountains and I've also heard the far famed Kerry mountains.


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Subject: RE: Whiskey In The Jar
From: Pejotka
Date: 15 Jan 98 - 07:25 PM

Here is another verse, that I like. I found it in „Folk ´round the world” edited by Herbert Haufrecht, London (ESSEX) (Gilgary Mountain, new words by Bob Gibson, Bob Camp and Frank Warner) 1 to 3 are similar to the other versions but :

4. Was early in the morning at the barracks of Kilarney, My brother took his leave but he didn´t ask the army; Our horses they were speedy ´twas all over but the shoutin` Now we wait for Farrell upon Gilgary Mountain.


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Subject: RE: Whiskey In The Jar
From: Bruce O.
Date: 15 Jan 98 - 09:33 PM

A 'Patrick Fleming' version, with Colonel Pepper snd Ruberry mountain is reprinted from an early 19the century broadside in the Madden collection in Holloway and Black's 'Later English Broadside Ballads', I, # 90. Original edition was London, 1975, but I think Univ. of Nebraska Press has a reprint. (Cork, Kilkenny, Londonderry and London are all mentioned in this version.)


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Subject: RE: Whiskey In The Jar
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 01 Jul 98 - 07:48 PM

G'day all,

I see that the 'Whisky in the Jar' seems to have come back to life. I guess that's a little like a good folk song - there's always life in it.

In Australia, this song got a folk processing during the time of one of our particularly notorious (or notable, depending on your viewpoint) bushrangers: Ben Hall. Ben Hall was considered by many to have been victimised by the authorities and to have only turned his hand to crime after being framed for actions of others.

The Police officer responsible was a Pommy remittance man who had enlisted in the colonial police force as an ordinary trooper. When overseas mail arrived addressed to him as SIR Frederick Pottinger (he was a minor baronet) it was decided he could hardly remain in the ranks and he was promoted to Captain. He did not do very well and died of an 'accidentental' shot from his own pistol on a coach bound for an departmental enquiry in Sydney.

Collectors have found a fragmentary local version of 'Whiskey in the Jar' which starts:

"As I was a'going over the Abercrombie mountains, I met with Captain Pottinger and his money he was counting ..."

This is obviously a direct parody (reworking, folk-processing, whatever) of the Irish model - but that is exactly what a folk song is ... a song that keeps working for its living, doing whatever job it turns its hand to, changing as needed to do the job.

Regards,

Bob Bolton


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Subject: RE: Whiskey In The Jar
From: Barry Finn
Date: 01 Jul 98 - 10:04 PM

Bob, Ben sounds like he could've been a fairly decent fellow if left to his own, kind a like our Pretty Boy Floyd. If folksongs were outlawed, only outlaws would sing about folks, wait, if only inlaws sang folksongs, only folks would sing about outlaws, wait, sorry, if only folksongs were about inlaws, outlaws would only be folks, or is it, if inlaws were outlaws, folks would then only sing out songs that were in .......forget it & slap me silly. Barry, who loves songs about outlaws.


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Subject: RE: Whiskey In The Jar
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 02 Jul 98 - 02:10 AM

G'day Barry,

I did not post any lyrics of the Australian variant because I was working off the top of what passes for my memory - and I seem to remember that it was a fairly brief fragment ... just enough to show that the song was known at the time (1860s) and someone had re-formed it to suit current events.

I will look up the texts and see if ther is enough to warrant posting the version. If see ... watch this space!

Regards,

Bob Bolton


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Subject: RE: Whiskey In The Jar
From: Barry Finn
Date: 07 Jul 98 - 07:38 PM

Bob, please do post, it would be quite nice to hea an Aussie version of this, I believe the true spirit of a nation can be judged by how high they hold up their outlaws (Ha, Ha). Barry


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Subject: RE: Whiskey In The Jar
From: Bert
Date: 08 Jul 98 - 12:16 PM

Hold up or Hang up???


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Subject: RE: Whiskey In The Jar
From: Bill D
Date: 08 Jul 98 - 08:18 PM

in response to Barry's earlier post...the TRUE moral is.."If inlaws were outlawed, more folk would have something to sing about!"....(as long as they don't RISE UP to sing..


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Subject: RE: Whiskey In The Jar
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 12 Jul 98 - 07:14 PM

G'day Barry Finn,

I had a look at the "Abercrombie Mountains" - Ben Hall version of the song. It has 4 stanzas but only the first is really different. The rest has the usual tale 'darlin' Molly' who betrays the highwayman. I suspect that Irish workers here changed the 1st stanza but didn't bother to alter the song to cover the new story.

There are a number of very good original songs about Ben Hall. On the Digital Tradition I found 2 of them. The ballad just called Ben Hall is from Sally Sloane, a great source of Australian songs and music (died ~ 1984). I got to know Sally in the 1970s and she sang at a concert I organised in 1977 (at ~ 76 years of age). Sally was delivered by Ben Hall's Sister who still worked as midwife at the turn of the century. Great, great, great grandparents on my mother's side were married in the same church, in the same year as Ben Hall and Biddy McGuire.

The second song in DT is a rather corrupt transcription of "Streets of Forbes", a lament for Hall written by his brother in law, John McGuire, on seeing his bullet-riddled body led through town, tied over a police pack saddle. I will submit an accurate set of words to set the record straight (as soon as I get my typing fingers working and/or find a good OCR scanner). There are a few more good Hall ballads - Hall got traditional Irish ballads and laments. Twenty years later Ned Kelly songs tended to be in the fashionable music hall styles of the city and less interesting musically.

Regards,

Bob Bolton

Until I return, with lyrics


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Subject: RE: Whiskey In The Jar
From: BK
Date: 12 Jul 98 - 11:50 PM

ok, Bill D; how did you get the funky little black square w/the yellow smiley face in this page abt one of my favorite bad boy songs? far out! if there were a lot of catchy little graphics, would they not take up a lot of text space?

cheers, BK


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Subject: Lyr Add: THE STREETS OF FORBES
From: Alan of Australia
Date: 13 Jul 98 - 11:01 AM

G'day Bob,
Seeing I Have The words typed up already, I thought I'd save you the trouble:-

THE STREETS OF FORBES

Come all you Lachlan men, and a sorrowful tale I'll tell
Concerning of a hero bold who through misfortune fell
His name it was Ben Hall, a man of good renown
Who was hunted from his station, and like a dog shot down.

Three years he roamed the roads, and he showed the traps some fun
A thousand pounds was on his head, with Gilbert and John Dunn
Ben parted from his comrades, the outlaws did agree
To give away bushranging and to cross the briny sea.

Ben went to Goobang Creek, and that was his downfall
For riddled like a sieve was valiant Ben Hall
'Twas early in the morning upon the fifth of May
When seven police surrounded him as fast asleep he lay.

Bill Dargin he was chosen to shoot the outlaw dead
The troopers then fired madly, and filled him full of lead
They rolled him in a blanket and strapped him to his prad
And led him through the streets of Forbes to show the prize they had.

My Mother who grew up in Ben Hall country in the 1920s and 30s says that people in the area still talked about Hall in those days & it was generally accepted that a great injustice was done to him.

Cheers,
Alan


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Subject: RE: Whiskey In The Jar
From: Barry Finn
Date: 13 Jul 98 - 02:29 PM

Good job, nice song. Thanks, Barry


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Subject: RE: Whiskey In The Jar
From:
Date: 06 Dec 98 - 12:48 PM

Does anyone have the guitar tab for this tune? Anybody heard Metallica's version???


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Subject: RE: Whiskey In The Jar
From: Sandy
Date: 07 Dec 98 - 10:08 PM

Hello out there! My memory tells me that the hugely popular version of Whiskey in the Jar was derived from Lena Bourne Fish's version, collected by Frank Warner in New Hampshire. I was too much a purist at the time to be sure, but I thought it was The Highwaymen (aptly named) who recorded it. That it came from Frank Warner's collection would account for the Bob Gibson, Bob Camp, Frank Warner "arrangement" copyright. We've collected several versions of this song at Folk-Legacy: Max Hunter sings an Ozark version (learned from Allie Long Parker, whom we also recorded) with one verse stating "I have two brothers enlisted in the army, One of them's in jail and the other's in Caroliny" (a nice inversion of Kilarney, eh?); Sara Ogan Gunning sings a good version from Kentucky on her "Girl of Constant Sorrow" Folk-Legacy recording. We also will soon release a CD of traditional songs and ballads from our 40 years of collecting. On it, a splendid old logger from New Brunswick, Canada, sings the version referred to in one of the earlier posts about this song in which the hero says "Oh, it's false-hearted Molly, for you my heart is breakin', If it hadn't been for you, sure, I never would've been taken. And with the metal bar, I broke the Samson down (???), And straight-way made my escape to old 'Ginia town." The CD is ready for release, we're just waiting for the money to do it with. :-) Sandy


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