Origins: Whiskey In The Jar

Subject: RE: Whiskey In The Jar
From: GUEST,Den at work
Date: 27 Oct 03 - 04:04 PM

Metallica's version is the same as Thin Lizzy's with a bit more uumph!Metallica were big Lizzy fans and really covered (the Lizzy version) as a tribute.

Subject: RE: Whiskey In The Jar
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 27 Oct 03 - 07:55 PM

I have just come back tonight from a concert by Tomas Lynch in Glenfarg Folk Club, where he finished with an amazing version of this song, sung slowly with a hauntingly beautiful guitar accompaniment in DADGAD.

The whole audience was mesmerised ....

Murray

Subject: RE: Whiskey In The Jar
From: Charley Noble
Date: 27 Oct 03 - 08:37 PM

Patrick-

I think you're on to something with your translation of the "nonesense words" as having to do with whisky. Here's a mug to you!

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: Lyr Add: WHISKY IN THE JAR
From: Cluin
Date: 28 Oct 03 - 01:26 AM

I made some alterations years ago so this is the one I do, played really fast and loud.


Whisky in the Jar

As I was going over the Cork and Kerry Mountains
I met with Captain Farrell and his money, he was countin'
I first produced my pistol; then I rattled forth my saber
sayin', "Stand and deliver, for I am the Bold Deceiver!"

Musha rig rumma du rumma da
Whack fol the daddy-oh
Whack fol the daddy-oh
There's whisky in the jar

Well, he counted out his money and it made a pretty penny
I took the booty home with me and gave it to my Jenny
She kissed me and she swore that she never would deceive me
But, while I was a-sleepin', of my blade she did relieve me

Musha rig...

It was early in the morning I awoke to Jenny's favour
Them guards were standin' `round me, and me without my saber
Well, I flew to my pistol, but alas, I was mistaken
For Jenny'd wet the powder and it's a prisoner I am taken

   Musha rig...

Well, they hauled me off to gaol, without no judge or lawyer
And the arm of Captain Farrell around Jenny, my destroyer
But they didn't tie my fists, so I knocked the sentry down
And I bid a fond farewell unto the gaol in Slaigo Town

Musha rig...

Now, I think I'll find my brother: the one what's in the army
I don't know where he's station'd; Is it Cork or in Killarney?
Together we'll go rovin' through the mountains of Kilkenny
And I know he'll treat me fairer than my darlin' whorin' Jenny

   Musha rig...

Subject: Lyr Add: WHISKEY IN THE JAR (Glasgow broadside)
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 23 Dec 03 - 08:21 PM

The story remains pretty much the same, but I like this old version from Glasgow Broadside Ballads website, from about 1850.

Lyr. Add: WHISKY IN THE JAR
   Air- The Sporting hero.

I'm a bold Irish hero, who never yet was daunted,
In the courting of a pretty girl I very seldom wanted,
In the courting of a pretty girl I own it was my folly,
I would venture my life for you my pretty Molly.

Chorus
Mush a ring a do a da, fal lal da do da addy,
Mush a ring a do a da, there's whisky in the jar.

As I was walking over Wicklow mountain,
I met with Colonel Powers, and his money he was counting.
I pulled out my sword, and likewise my rapier,
Saying stand and deliver, for I'm a bold deceiver,

Cho.

It's when I got the money it was a pretty penny,
I put [it] in my pocket, and I took it home to Molly;
She said, my dearest Pat, I never will deceive you,
But the devil's in the women, they never can be easy,

Cho.

I went to Molly's chamber, you'll think it little wonder,
I laid my head upon her bed, for to get a slumber;
But as I lay sleeping, I knew not the matter,
She unloaded my two pistols, and filled them full of water.

Cho.

And as I lay sleeping, I dreamed of my pretty Nelly
I saw Colonel Powers, and four stout able fellows,
I flew to my pistols, but I found I was mistaken,
Out flashed the water, and a prisoner I was taken,

Cho.

O Molly, dearest Molly, now since you have deceived me
Over high hills and mountains, I'm forced to leave you,
I am to blame, but you are the faulter,
You have brought my poor head almost to a halter,

Cho.

It's I have two brothers in the army,
The one lies in Cork, and the other's in Killarney,
And if I had them here I would be blythe and jolly,
I would rather have them now, then you my pretty Molly

Cho.

Its when they led me through the hall,
I threw back the soldiers and loudly did call,
Many have I robbed, but never yet killed any;
And now I must die on the plains of Kilkenny.

Cho.

MS. # Mu23-yl:137, Glasgow Broadside Ballads, Murray Collection.

Quoted from the broadside:
"Fourth Edition since 18th October 1850.
- This song is a regular nightly favourite in the Glasgow Saloons and it meets with its regular nightly applause. It is in fact, within the last few months, become as proverbial in the mouths of the youth of Glasgow as "Jim Crow." As this is the fourth time it has beeb printed, all can possess it from the usual place, namely at the Poet's Box, 6 St. Andrews Lane, Glasgow, along with many other nic-nacks...." "January 13, 1855."

Is the air, "The Sporting Hero," the name of the one usually heard?
Whisky In The Jar

Another version, in the Bodleian Ballads Catalogue, was printed in London, H. Disley, 1860-1883, Firth b.25(168) (As I was going over Calvert mountain, I met with Captain Everett.... In this one, the "young fellow" knocks down the turnkey and makes his escape out of sweet Philip's town).

Subject: RE: Origins: Whiskey In The Jar
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 23 Dec 03 - 08:42 PM

The song also appeared on broadsides as The Sporting Hero and -perhaps a little later- as The Sporting Hero, or, Whiskey in the Bar; the tune title may be a circular reference. Examples at :

The sporting hero ("I am a sporting hero, that never yet was daunted ...") Performer: Longworth, J. Venue: Bermondsey Hotel. Printed by J. Bradley, Bradford, n.d.

Sporting hero, or, Whiskey in the bar ("I am a sporting hero, I never yet was daunted ...") Manchester & Leeds, 1850-55.

Subject: RE: Origins: Whiskey In The Jar
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 23 Dec 03 - 09:37 PM

I see that Bruce had added a link from his site to the online Newgate Calendar, where details are given of the life and death of the highwayman Patrick Flemming:

PATRICK FLEMMING. An Irish Highwayman who held Sway near the Bog of Allen and, after numerous Murders, was executed On 24th of April, 1650

It appears that Whisky in the Jar, or whatever you prefer to call it, was a stage song based on the earlier broadside Patrick Flemming or Flemmen; the powder-dampening episode being retained while other details were changed. Although it's possible that the chorus may have some meaning on the lines of some the ingenious suggestions made earlier in this thread, it's probably just as likely that it's meaningless "cod Irish" of the music-hall variety.

Subject: RE: Origins: Whiskey In The Jar
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 24 Dec 03 - 11:30 AM

I can't get the page I linked for the Glasgow Broadside Ballads version of "Whisky in the Jar" I posted, but it can be found via the index. Whisky in the Jar
Scroll down, near the bottom of the list. A link is provided to the one in the Bodleian, but given here from Ord's "Bothy Songs and Ballads ...." (1930).

Malcolm Douglas pretty well pins down this (at times) popular song. A title from the nonsense chorus title seems to have displaced "The Sporting Hero" as the title.
Was the chorus of this song just something to get the music hall audiences involved?

Subject: RE: Origins: Whiskey In The Jar
From: GUEST,JTT
Date: 25 Dec 03 - 03:13 AM

1) He's a raparee, surely?

2) Chorus is port-a-bhéal - but if the first word, "musha" has any meaning, it'd be má 'sé "if so".

3) How's about that loyalist version, Dai? Did your friend release it?

Subject: RE: Origins: Whiskey In The Jar
From: GUEST,skyesong
Date: 26 Dec 03 - 11:39 AM

In some Australian versions, the one by the Seekers for example, the second line of the chorus is "Whacko the derry-oh". This used to be a common phrase in Australian vernacular and I recall reading somewhere (probably in one of Bill Wannan's articles in the Australasian Post in the 1960s) that it was a corruption of an Irish phrase meaning to get drunk or go on the spree. There is a Scots Gaelic word "daorach" which means drunkenness. Assuming there is a similar word in Irish, it could well have been corrupted to "derry". I also once heard a version with Australian place-names:
'One day as I was walking across the Weddin Mountains' and
'I bade farewell to the jail in Parramatta town'.

Subject: Lyr Add: SPORTING HERO (from Bodleian)
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 04 Feb 04 - 02:34 PM

Lyr. Add: SPORTING HERO, or, Whiskey in the Jar

I am a sporting hero, I never yet was daunted,
In treating of pretty girls at places where I haunted.
In rum, gin & brandy, I would spend all my store,
And when that is done I would boldly rob for more.

Mush a ring a ding a da, ri too ral la,
Ri too ral laddy O, there's whiskey in the jar.

As I was crossing over Mulberry mountain,
I met with Col. Pepper whose money he was countin
It's first I draw my pistol, my broadsword and rapier
Saying stand and deliver, for I am your deceiver.

I picked up the money it was a pretty penny,
I took it home to Molly for she had not away,
I took it home to Molly, she swore she'd never deceive me,
But the devil's in the woman for the never can be easy.

I being wet and weary and for to take a slumber,
I laid myself down all in my Molly's chamber,
She unloaded my pistols & loaded them with water
I was taken like a lamb going to the slaughter.

Early in the morning between six and seven,
The strong guards surround me, likewise Capt. Nevin,
I flew to my pistols but I found I was mistaken,
When I fired off the water I was a prisoner taken.

I stood in the hall while the turnkeys were rolling,
I stood in the hall while the names they were callin
I drew up my metal bolts & knock'd the sentry down
And made good my way out of Melbrow town.

I have got two brothers and they are in the army,
The one is in Cork and the other in Kilkenny,
If I had them ere tonight I would be brisk & jolly
I would rather have em ere than you deceitful Molly

Some take great delight in their fishing and their fowling,
And others take delight in their carriage rolling,
But I take great delight in being brisk and jolly,
Filling up strong liquors for you deceitful Molly.

I have not corrected the printing errors. From Bodleian Collection, Ballads Catalogue, 2806 C16(329), J. Cadman, Manchester; Andrews, Leeds, between 1850-1855.
Also printed in Bradford, no date.

Subject: RE: Origins: Whiskey In The Jar
From:
Date: 03 Mar 04 - 07:40 PM

Thank you guys !!
I was searching to know if "musha ring durum da" was gaelic, and i've found much more. Now this song remains however a knaves song. Last time I heard it, it was sung in the street of the little village Tubbercurry, co.Sligo, by a group of drunken youngs, under the rain and long after pubs had closed, just before police arrived and sent us home. Nasty song, for nasty people.

Subject: RE: Origins: Whiskey In The Jar
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Mar 04 - 05:42 PM

where can I find the origins of this song. circa? who wrote it? where?

Subject: RE: Origins: Whiskey In The Jar
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 23 Mar 04 - 06:24 PM

Presumably you've read the thread. We don't know who wrote it (though that information may perhaps turn up one day), but the middle of the 19th century seems likely; though, as stated, it was based on an earlier broadside song (which in turn was based on real events) of which forms have been found in oral currency in the USA and Canada.

Although the original events took place in Ireland, the music hall song would appear to be British, and the refrain meaningless and made just to sound "typically" Irish to non-Gaelic speakers; though of course we can't be certain of that. Look also at the late Bruce Olson's website (mentioned earlier) for more on the Patrick Flemming broadside: Patrick Flemming.

Subject: Lyr Add: WHISKEY IN THE JAR (from Grateful Dead)
From: GUEST,Lorraine
Date: 08 Apr 04 - 08:38 AM

Hey just to throw a spanner in the works,

I found all of the above and another one, by Jerry Garcia from the Grateful Dead(obviously not the original) but the lyrics are completely different to any of the other one, its a really great version him on guitar and David Grisman on Mandolin


right here we go

As I was a-goin' over Gilgarra mountains
I met Colonel Pepper and his money he was counting
I drew forth my pistol and I rattled my sabre
Saying "stand and deliver, for I am a bold deceiver"

Chorus
Musha ringum duram da
Whack fol de daddy-o
Whack fol de daddy-o
There's whiskey in the jar

The shining yellow coins did sure look bright and jolly
I took the money home and I gave it to my Molly
She promised and she vowed that she never would deceive me
But the devil's in the women for they never can be easy

[chorus]

When I awoke between the hours of six and seven
Guards were standing 'round me in numbers odd and even
I flew to my pistols, but alas I was mistaken
I fired off my pistols and a prisoner was taken

[chorus]

They put me in jail without a judge or jury
For robbing Colonel Pepper in the morning so early
They didn't take my fist so I knocked down the sentry
And I bid a long farewell to that cold penitentiary

[chorus]

Some take delight in fishing and bowling
Others take delight in carriage a-rollin'
I take delight in the juice of the barley
Courting pretty women in the morning so early

[chorus]


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The version on So Many Roads is essentially the same, with some minor differences as highlighted below. It fades in as Jerry is singing the chorus, followed by the last verse, (with the first two lines in the wrong order):
[chorus]

Some take delight in the carriage a-rollin'
Others take delight in fishing and bowling
I take delight in the fruit of the barley
Courting pretty women in the morning so early

[chorus]
Jerry then takes the band through the complete song:
As I was a-walkin' over Gilgarra mountains
I met Colonel Pepper and his money he was counting
I fired off my pistols and I rattled my sabre
Saying "stand and deliver, for I am a bold deceiver"

[chorus]

Them shiny golden coins did sure look bright and jolly
I took the money home and I gave it to my Molly
She promised and she vowed that she never would deceive me
But the devil's in the women and they never can be easy

[chorus]

As I was a-wakin' 'tween the hours of six and seven
Guards were standing 'round my bed in numbers odd and even
I didn't have my pistols so they ... to prison
Da da da da da, da da da da da da da da
[Jerry realises he's got the words wrong!]

[chorus]

They put me in jail without a judge or jury
For ... Colonel Pepper in the morning so early
They didn't take my fist so I knocked down a sentry
And I bid a long farewell to that cold penitentiary

[chorus]

Some take delight in fishing and bowling
Others take delight in the carriage a-rollin'
I take delight in the juice of the barley
Courting pretty women in the morning so early

[chorus]

As I was a-ridin' over Gilgarra mountains
I met Colonel Pepper and his money he was counting
I shot off my pistols and I rattled my sabre
Saying "stand and deliver, for I am a bold deceiver"

[chorus]

Subject: RE: Origins: Whiskey In The Jar
From: GUEST,Mark S.
Date: 07 Jun 04 - 12:51 PM

Greetings to you from New Zealand.

My girlfriend and I were first exposed to this song by the Metallica cover and liked it from the start. I must say I'm amazed to find this thread that still seems to be alive after 7 years! It took quite some finding (Google: "history of" "whisky in the jar" +Gaelic), but what a great discovery.

I was inspired to look into the history of the song while hearing it at 2am on the radio while eating jelly beans in a car park lookout above our coastal town (it really goes to show this song has truly done the rounds and possibly what a strange fellow I am).

The song still receives regular air time on the radio here, mostly in its Thin Lizzy incarnation but I have heard a couple of other covers I cannot identify. One rendition apparently backed by a harpsichord, which struck me as extremely odd but makes sense when you consider the age of the song.

I suspect that it made its way here in the 1960's based on comments I have heard from my mother and grandmother. It does however seem to have lost its reputation as a "knaves" song, being sung and known by almost everyone here at some point.

I never knew that there were any different lyrics and reading these posts really fills in the gaps left by Metalica/Thin Lizzy. Thank you to everyone past and present who have left these tit-bits.

Now I find myself wishing I could hear it performed live as so many have described it on here.

Subject: RE: Origins: Whiskey In The Jar
From: emjay
Date: 14 Jul 04 - 05:04 PM

refresh

Subject: RE: Origins: Whiskey In The Jar
From: GUEST,jim
Date: 23 Sep 04 - 09:26 AM

Hello folks
have read this thread with interest as I too have been trying to decypher the almost code-like chorus. Just to throw confusion into the mix, it has been suggested to me that the 'whack fo' mi daddy-o' line could relate to the term 'whack' used by the british army in years gone by, meaning the last shot delivered by the commanding officer to those excuted by firing squad (later pinched for the term 'gettin whacked'). This suggestion would indeed fit into the framework if the lyrics were to be taken literally (in terms of highway man folklore / Patrick Fleming etc) as the first verse does sound like the proverbial 'stick-up... Capt Farrell... his money he was a countin'... stand and deliver etc... erm, now i'm talking jibberish... Your thoughts ladies & gentlemen....

Subject: RE: Origins: Whiskey In The Jar
From: Lighter
Date: 23 Sep 04 - 10:10 AM

Jerry Garcia's version comes from Alan Lomax, Folksongs of North America (1960). The ultimate source was Lena Bourne Fish of New Hampshire, recorded by the Warners about 1940.

Subject: RE: Origins: Whiskey In The Jar
From: PoppaGator
Date: 23 Sep 04 - 10:18 AM

This thread is so old, it contains a post I made under my "real-life" name way back on Christmas Eve 1999, before I became a member and assumed my current fake name. (I don't really understand how the prefix "GUEST" got omitted; I was *not* posting as a member...)

I'm glad to see it reappear. What a great old song! I'm sure we'll never unravel its mysteries (e.g., what in God's name does the chorus have to do with the story told in the verses?)

Subject: RE: Origins: Whiskey In The Jar
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 23 Sep 04 - 01:08 PM

Nothing in particular, as we've already mentioned a number of times. It's just there to add a little "local colour" for music hall audiences. Attempts like "Jim"'s to "explain" it are ingenious but lead nowhere; there is nothing to explain, no hidden code. That won't stop people continuing to invent imaginary meanings of their own, of course; but such explanations usually show little knowledge of the song's history.

Subject: RE: Origins: Whiskey In The Jar
From: Nerd
Date: 23 Sep 04 - 01:22 PM

Yeah, Poppagator, I too am in there under my real name. Funny, huh?

Subject: RE: Origins: Whiskey In The Jar
From: Nerd
Date: 23 Sep 04 - 01:25 PM

"Whack fo the daddy oh, Whack fo the daddy oh, Whack fo the daddy oh, there's whisky in the jar..."

obviously means the guy is planning to slap his father three times for lying to him and saying there was no whisky left.

What is WRONG with you people who can't understand simple English :-)

Subject: RE: Origins: Whiskey In The Jar
From: PoppaGator
Date: 23 Sep 04 - 01:38 PM

Malcolm,

I understand, and largely agree with, your assertion that "there is nothing to explain, no hidden code."

However, I would assert that it can really help to enhance a singer's performance for him/her to have a "backstory" in which to believe. It can be completely spurious, and no one but the singer need ever know the details, but the intensity and affect of the performance can be strengthened by the singer's ability to project him/herself into some imagined scenario involving the song. And an elaborate explanation (whether false or true) of how and why the lyrics say what they say can provide this for a performer.

I am certainly in favor of making a clear distinction between hard facts and scholarship on the one hand and wild flights of fancy on the other, but I am glad to read about both.

Subject: RE: Origins: Whiskey In The Jar
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 23 Sep 04 - 03:12 PM

That's perfectly true; but unfortunately they often can't resist sharing those flights of fancy with others, who then repeat fantasy as fact. Makes getting at the real truth far harder than it ought to be when you have to address all that stuff as well as the hard evidence!

Subject: RE: Origins: Whiskey In The Jar
From: PoppaGator
Date: 23 Sep 04 - 03:23 PM

You're right, Malcolm. If I were more serious about the scholarly side of this stuff, I'd get frustrated, too.

Nerd -- I gave a big fat hint about where to find my (not-so) secret identity; how 'bout you?

Subject: RE: Origins: Whiskey In The Jar
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 23 Sep 04 - 04:17 PM

In a list of "newest songs,' printed in Edinburgh in 1855- Whisky in the Jar. That version had the chorus Mush a ring a do a da, fal lal da do da addy, Mush a ring a do a da, there's whisky in the jar.

Musha ding a ring a ra etc. there's whiskey in the jar was printed in England at the same time.

Perhaps there should be a thread with nothing but 'whack' choruses and songs. A few:

Song- Whack! Row De Dow-
(No fool is Yankee Doodle Dandy)

Song- I never take more than my whack.

Song- Whack for the Emerald Isle

Song- The tale of Barney O'Whack, doorkeeper for the convent of St. Margaret's.

Song- Finigan's Wake- Whack, hurrah, dance to your partners; whack, hurroo boys...

Song- The Irishman's Shanty- Now boys, one for the Paddy,
Whack! Paddy's the boy!

Song- McGuffins Home Run- You hit it a whack, now...

Song- The Lanigan's Ball- Whack! Fal lal, fal la, tal ladeddy etc.

Song- Paddy Whack- Di du Mack Whack, I am just from the town of Bally hack, where seven praties weigh a ton.

Song- August the One- Whack fol de rol de ri do, etc.

Song- McClellan will be president- With a whack, row de dow ...

Song- The Eight-hour System- Whack row de dow...

Song- Paddy's Dream- Fal lal lue, ful lal lue, whack fad de riddle,
Sing ful lah lue, fal lah lue, whack ful de ray... etc.

.and so on ad nauseum.

Subject: RE: Origins: Whiskey In The Jar
From: Lighter
Date: 23 Sep 04 - 05:45 PM

Saw a paperback some years ago with the cover blurb: "A Story So True It Can Only Be Told As Fiction!"

Director John Huston is credited with the enigmatic line, "When the legend becomes fact, print the legend!"

So Nerd has my vote. I accept that ridiculous fiction as fact.

Subject: RE: Origins: Whiskey In The Jar
From: Nerd
Date: 24 Sep 04 - 12:21 AM

Well, I just gave my first name anyway...back in Dec 2001

Subject: RE: Origins: Whiskey In The Jar
From: GUEST,Lighter at work
Date: 24 Sep 04 - 10:17 AM

I meant "John FORD."

Thank God nobody caught it before I did.

Subject: RE: Origins: Whiskey In The Jar
From: Pogo
Date: 24 Sep 04 - 01:21 PM

I've found this thread fascinating especially the ponderings on the nonsense words (this being a favorite song of mine)

Interestingly enough the version I heard went something like this (again I might be mishearing a few things...I disremember {O) )

As I was going o'er the far-fled (far-flung) Kerry Mountains
I met with Cap'n Farrell and his money he was countin'
I first produced me pistol and I then produced me rapier
Sayin' ' Stand and deliver for ye were a bold sea man'

This to me especially in the last line seems to justify the robbery a bit, it suggested to me that the robber and the captain served together as mates on a ship or something and somehow or another Captain Farrel owes him the money anyways since he cheated him, stole it, etc. But that might have been just imagination at work. Still it puts an interesting spin on the story eh?

Subject: RE: Origins: Whiskey In The Jar
From: Lighter
Date: 24 Sep 04 - 03:17 PM

Pogo, it's "bold deceiver." But sing on!

Subject: RE: Origins: Whiskey In The Jar
From: Pogo
Date: 25 Sep 04 - 12:28 AM

Yup picked that up from the rest of the thread...Still think ' sea man ' made for a nifty version...ah well

So I counted out his money an' it made a pretty penny
I put it in me pocket an' I took it home ta Jenny
She sighed and she swore that she never would decieve me
But the devil take th' women for they never can be aisy (easy)

mush-a-ring dom-a-doo dom-a-di
White fall the derry-o
White fall the derry-o
There's-a whisky in th' jar


I went unto my chambers all for t' take a slumber
I dreamt of gold an' jewels an' for sure i'twas no wonder
But Jenny drew me charges an' she filled 'em up with water
Then sent for Captain Farrell to be ready for th' slaughter

mush-a-ring dom-a-doo dom-a-di etc.

'Twas early in the mornin' just before I rose t'travel
Up comes a band o' footmen and likeways Captain Farrel
I first produced me pistol for she'd stolen away me rapier
But I couldna shoot the water so a prisoner I was taken

mush-a-ring dom-a-doo dom-a-di etc.

Now there's some takes delight in the carriages a'rollin'
And other take delight in th' hurley an' the bowlin'
But I take delight in the juice o' the barely
An' courtin' pretty fair maids o' a mornin' bright an' early

mush a ring dom a doo dom a di

If anyone can aid me 'tis me brother in the army
If I can find his station in Cork or in Killarny
And if he'll go with me, we'll go rollin' in Kilkenny
An' I'm sure he'll treat me better than me only sportin' Jenny

Mush a ring dom a doo dom a di


*sigh* I do love singin' me Irish music...I believe this is the Dubliners version

Subject: RE: Origins: Whiskey In The Jar
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Dec 04 - 12:00 AM

This thread is older than the net! lol. j/k. Wow, like the song, this thread lives on.

Subject: RE: Origins: Whiskey In The Jar
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 18 Dec 04 - 01:06 AM

I'll drink to that!

Subject: RE: Origins: Whiskey In The Jar
From: GUEST,Ur stalker!
Date: 15 Feb 05 - 09:55 AM

I think whiskey in the jar is the best song by metallica! i dont carea bout the dam origins i care about metallica and the blody raping

Subject: RE: Origins: Whiskey In The Jar
From: GUEST,Barrie Roberts
Date: 15 Feb 05 - 10:37 AM

Somewhere back in the Dark Ages --- about 1957, when BBC Radio still had serious programmes about folkmusic --- I heard an American 'Whiskey in the Jar' with an odd last verse:

That night Sir Humphrey Gilbert was looking for a crew,
The Queen said, 'Here's two robbers. spared their lives to sail with you'.
Young Willie and the pedlar swore allegiance on her name
To be contented with their robbing from the Spaniard on the Main.

This verse appeared after the hero's arrest. the 'pedlar' had not previously appeared in the lyric.

Is this a chunk from a signficantly different narrative, or even a different song about two different people?

Subject: RE: Origins: Whiskey In The Jar
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Feb 05 - 10:48 AM

Mettalica did this as a tribute to Phil. Their version is his. He intended it to be a novelty B-side to their 1972 single "Black Boys on the Corner", but the record company decided otherwise and made it the single. Phil was furious. It took him ages to shake the folk-rocker image. It was really radical and gave them their first taste of success. Apart from the original studio one, there are several bootlegs out there including Gary Moore and Midge Ure ones.
But find the original, it knocks Mettalica's out of the ring.

As to the meaning of the refrain, probably mostly just nonsense words to make it more singeable. The whiskey bit really oughtn't to surprise anyone. Being a blackguarding song refferences to alcohol, the most popular pursuit (after Jenny, Molly, Polly, etc,) are quite understandable.

Subject: RE: Origins: Whiskey In The Jar
From: GUEST,Barrie Roberts
Date: 15 Feb 05 - 01:47 PM

There's a vigorously Catlic Irish song also called 'Whiskey in the Jar'. It goes:

One Sunday morning, as I was going to Mass,
I met a bloody Orangeman and killed him for his past,
Killed him for his past and sent his soul to Hell,
And when he got there he'd a strange tale to tell.

Chorus: Falderaddle-rye, Falderaddle-rye,
         Falderaddle-rye-raddy,
         There's whiskey in the jar.

When an Orangeman dies and his toes turn cold,
The worms'll have his body and the Devil has his soul,
The Devil he's a-laughing, a-singing out for joy,
'I've a warm spot picked out for you, me bold Orange boy!'

If I had two yards of an Orangeman's skin,
I'd make it into drums for the bold Fenian Men,
The drums they would rattle, the fifes they would play,
And we'd all go to Mass on Saint Patrick's Day.

Personally I really love those old traditional expressions of religious warmth!

Subject: RE: Origins: Whiskey In The Jar
From: GUEST,magnifico
Date: 30 Oct 07 - 01:51 PM

hi could neone submit the solo or tell me the link
thnx

Subject: RE: Origins: Whiskey In The Jar
From: GUEST,TJ in San Diego
Date: 30 Oct 07 - 05:50 PM

Between about 1957 and 1963 or so (at least during the U.S. "Great Folk Scare"), it was probably easier to name the performers who had NOT done this, in some form. Gillgarry, Gilgarra, Kilgarra; different colonels, different cadences, etc., etc. It was always a dependable up-tempo "rouser" when things got too noisy in the joint.

The phrase "Whiskey (with or without the e)in the Jar" shows up in other songs as well. One example is in at least one verse of the Clancy's "Whiskey, You're the Divil."

Subject: RE: Origins: Whiskey In The Jar
From: GUEST,Bardan
Date: 30 Oct 07 - 08:26 PM

The ideas on what the nonsense bits could have been originally is intersting. However, given the tradition of lilting and the countless nonsense syllables in Irish songs, I doubt they ever had a real meaning. I mean what does alilù puililù mean in Irish if you're going to analyse that sort of stuff? Incidentally the one decodable bit to me is the Musha. I'm sure I've heard it or something very similar used as a term of endearment.

Subject: RE: Origins: Whiskey In The Jar
From: GUEST,Nick
Date: 14 Nov 07 - 04:52 PM

Asked my grandmother and she remembered the "gibberish" part being about where he was running to after the robbery "Head for the dairy'o" Molly or Whichever name she goes be being a dairy maid.

Subject: RE: Origins: Whiskey In The Jar
From: GUEST,TJ in San Diego
Date: 14 Nov 07 - 05:49 PM

Obviously, there was the whisk(e)y before there was a song to celebrate it. Homemade whiskey (moonshine) was often put up in jars. I am loathe to suggest this, but the answer seems self-explanatory.

Subject: RE: Origins: Whiskey In The Jar
From: Amos
Date: 14 Nov 07 - 08:55 PM

There's a long tradition of "mouth music" specially in Irish songs, which are filled with sounds that have no special meaning for the beauty of their sounding.

This offends the rigorously Anglo, but it is true nonetheless, and enjoying the mouthmusic without trying to find morphemes in it is an exercise in Gaelic Zen.

A

Subject: RE: Origins: Whiskey In The Jar
From: michaelr
Date: 14 Nov 07 - 09:10 PM

Guest, Bardan -- alilu means Halleluja. See "The Seven Joys of Mary".

Cheers,
Michael

Subject: RE: Origins: Whiskey In The Jar
From: joseph
Date: 15 Nov 07 - 04:33 AM

originally recorded by irish legendary folk singer danny doyle now based in america

Subject: RE: Origins: Whiskey In The Jar
From: GUEST,JazzCat
Date: 20 Jan 08 - 11:51 PM

I found this thread to be especially interesting. Read the entire thing and I seldom do that.
It came up in a conversation I was having with a friend about the origins of American Country Western music. I wont get into the details. Just wanted to say I found all the different lyrical versions and history info quite fascinating.
Jazz

Subject: RE: Origins: Whiskey In The Jar
From: GUEST,xulih
Date: 09 May 08 - 06:01 PM

Just heard Metalica on Kerrange (the kids were watching) covering Phil Lynotts version.Brought back memories of the 70s for me.Jenny, Molly, ring or rain it still rocks, lol

Subject: RE: Origins: Whiskey In The Jar
From: meself
Date: 10 May 08 - 01:07 PM

Helen Creighton collected a version from Ben Henneberry around the 1920's; published without much info. in Songs & Ballads of Nova Scotia (1932). The story gets lost a little (but it's pretty clear what it's all about, anyway!), and the melody is different from the well-known one.