ethnic origins of Mudcatters

Subject: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: MARINER
Date: 05 Mar 01 - 01:41 PM

There are so many threads now mentioning St.Patrick that I began to wonder about the amount of 'catters of Irish origin. Then I began to wonder about the origins of all 'catters.How many of German ancestry?, how many of Arabian, Afro American?,Scots?, Welsh,Cuban, whatever.Satisfy my curiosity,Let's know.Where did your ancestors come from.Does your interest in music stem from your ancestors?. Just curious. Mariner

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: Steve Latimer
Date: 05 Mar 01 - 01:43 PM

My Father was born and raised in Dublin. My mother is a Cape Breton Island McLean, Scottish originally but the family has been in Canada for many, many years.

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: Bert
Date: 05 Mar 01 - 01:51 PM

Mostly English. 1/8 Irish. My Mother, and all the women in her line as far back as abyone can remember, had red hair. Much to the consternation of the old women in the village I passed this trait on to my daughter.
Old Lady - "Where did that baby get her red hair?"
Wife, in a haughty tone - "Oh we don't talk about that".

I like to think that the red hair went all the way back to Boudicca, but it probably didn't.

I've got dark hair and gray eyes so way back the family may have been British.

Bert.

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: Wesley S
Date: 05 Mar 01 - 01:51 PM

Irish and German on my mothers side and Native American { Cree tribe } and French on my dads side. It's a long story how we came up with Smith for a last name. And yes - the Irish background has been an influence on my musical taste. Mostly because that side of the family played musical instruments and passed down an interest in music.

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: Allan C.
Date: 05 Mar 01 - 01:56 PM

You can find my story along with those of many other 'Catters here.

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: gnu
Date: 05 Mar 01 - 02:07 PM

Irish and French, a veeerrrry common mix in in southern New Brunswick, Canada. The population of NB is about 35% Irish decent and about 30% French decent. Fifth generation Irish father, ?'th ( a lot ) generation french mother. By nth generation, I mean from the time of landing in Canada. Irish trad, the troubles, early folk, Maritime, and the like are my passion.

g

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: Amergin
Date: 05 Mar 01 - 02:15 PM

american.....

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 05 Mar 01 - 02:22 PM

Which tribe, Amergin ?

Murray

Subject: Ethnic origins
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 05 Mar 01 - 02:22 PM

LOL!! American isn't an ethnic background!! LOL!!

I'm a Canadian, saddled with a typical Heinz 57 mix of genes... Scandinavian, Scotts, English (Norman), German, Irish, and I'm pretty sure there's more in there somewhere...

;-)

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: Matt_R
Date: 05 Mar 01 - 02:30 PM

1/2 Italian (immigrant great-grandparents)
1/4 German
1/4 English

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: Allan C.
Date: 05 Mar 01 - 02:35 PM

In answer to the other part of the question about how my ethnic background affects my music, I can only answer: not at all. I know only few English folksongs, although I would like to learn more. I like some of the French folk tunes I have heard but have never been able to do much more than mangle the language.

While I am very interested in learning more about my family histories in England and France, there is something within me that keeps pulling me toward Mexico and I have an odd connection with the city of Merida that I cannot explain. I am especially fascinated by the Mayan civilization which had quite a bunch of major centers not far from there. However, I have never been to Mexico except for a weekend in Acapulco when I was an infant. But I would love to visit Merida, the Mayan ruins, and to travel much farther south (as in Central America) from there as well.

No, I don't know any good Mayan folksongs but I'm open to learning one.

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: wdyat12
Date: 05 Mar 01 - 02:42 PM

Scotch-Irish on my mother's side of the family. In the days before a TV in every house and even phones on Georgetown Island, the people here, mostly of Scotch-Irish origin, used to meet at several dance halls on the island on the weekends. Live fiddle music was what we kids heard growing up. Everybody danced to the old tunes and the kids were encouraged to dance too. That all changed during the fifties when TV and drive-in movies lured the younger generation away from the dancehalls. That was my earliest exposure to live music and yes my ethnic background influenced the music I listen to and play today.

wdyat12

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: Sourdough
Date: 05 Mar 01 - 03:25 PM

I started to write a paragraph or two add to this discussion and then got carried away by the topic. THis is not an argument, more like a series of thoughts rather than a response to anyone in particular's posting.

This idea of "ethnicity" is interesting. Does "ethnic" mean French or English or some other nationality? So many of the European countries are modern constructs that if you are talking "ethnic" wouldn't it make more sense to talk about beng Welsh, Breton, Tuscan or Bavarian as examples rather than saying English, French, Italian or German? Now, if we are talking about who we identify with, perhaps that would be something different. It may not be an important distinction as long as we don't try to ascribe behaviour to our genes.

My wife is German, or more accurately, Bavarian. She finds it interesting how many Americans consider themselves German because they have some German ancestry in their background. She often hears, "I'm German, too". She used to think that it meant that they had grown up in a German speaking household or that they spoke German or had perhaps lived there or even visited there. Instead, it seems to mean that they identify somehow with Germany, generally as a whole, rather than with a particular cultural region. These people get a nice feeling when they hear German traditional music, they feel more connected somehow when they go to a local Oktoberfest, and they feel free to interpret their personalities as though they are made up at least partially of "german" traits as they understand them. It can often mean a lot to them, it is part of their identity.

One of the most interesting discussions about this happened one afternoon when the subject of ethnicity came up. Two acquaintances were talking about the traits they had inherited as a part of their ethnic heritage. One was Swiss and the other was German, at least some grandparents of each came from those countries. The "Switzer" saw herself as conservative, rather bourgeois and very dependable, traits she had inherited from her Swiss ancestors while the "German" saw himself quite differently. According to his self-inventory, he was stubborn, aggressive in business and had a belief in Social Darwinism, all of which he ascribed to his German ethnicity. He also happened to mention that his great-grandfather was from a village near the Lake of Constance. It turned out that the German woman's family, or at least the German part of it, was from that region too. In fact, their "ancestral homes" were only about 30-40 km. apart. This has not been a closed border. The lLake has provided the means for a lot of contact over the centuries.It is hard for me to think of these people as being ethnically separate. Perhaps there are some cultural differences. I don't think that anyone could look at ten photos of people from one group and ten of another and say which group is which.

If it were possible to talk with the immigrant ancestors of many Americans, people who came here, say, 100 years ago, I think most would tell us that they would have been very proud of the fact that they had had the courage to get up and leave a culture that had little opportunity for them and to risk starting over in a new country.

I'd be really interested to hear an Australian point of view on this.

Sourdough

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: Matt_R
Date: 05 Mar 01 - 03:37 PM

The town in Italy my great grandparents came from was settled by the Longobards in 1000 A.D. How's that for history? Lol!

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: fat B****rd
Date: 05 Mar 01 - 04:29 PM

my greatgreatgrandfather came from alsace and apparently his family weer french or german (prussian) depending on how the war was going,his grandfather's death certificate was in french and his grandmother's was in german. GGF went to sunderland and hw and his brothers married lorrcul lassus and that makes me an anglofrenchgermanmaccum so there

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: R!
Date: 05 Mar 01 - 04:37 PM

1/4 Irish and 1/4 Swedish from Mum; 1/4 Scots and 1/4 English from Dad. My musical tastes are a sideshoot from my interest in English history which began when, as a child, I saw Churchill's funeral broadcast on TV. I saw all that pagentry and wanted to know more about the culture. Parents never encouraged any investigation into family origins.

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: mousethief
Date: 05 Mar 01 - 04:40 PM

Part Irish, part French, part Blackfoot, part English. Happy to be alive.

Alex

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: tiggerdooley
Date: 05 Mar 01 - 04:51 PM

Well, I'm from Liverpool, UK, and that's kind of an ethnic origin all of it's own!!!!
But there's a bit of Irish from all sides (look at the surname for goodness' sake!!) Some would say that's why I'm always talking, telling stories, singing, dancing and laughing (even in work - I work in a library!) However, we don't want to reinforce stereotypes, do we!!! Besides, there's European stuff in there too, or did the Irish stuff frighten it away?

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: GUEST,Sabine
Date: 05 Mar 01 - 04:57 PM

german. From the origin as far as I know. There was an aunt from France some generations ago. don't know when. But I believe there must be a little Irish in it, or celtic, when I look at my mother and her brothers and sisters :o)))

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: Peg
Date: 05 Mar 01 - 05:00 PM

father: Italian/Sicilian

mother: Irish/Scottish/English

peg

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Mar 01 - 05:12 PM

Red hair in Ireland is said to have come from the Danes, bert. Though you can never believe the fellas who make up that stuff, and the acadedics are the worst.

When I was getting into the music when someone used the word "ethnic" they were talking about myusic that was close to a native tradition and culture, so "an ethnic singer" would mean someone like the Copper Family, and an ethnic dancer would be maybe a Moris dancer.

These days "ethnic" gets used in the strangest ways, esentially to mean "foreign and probabaly black". In the shops you'll see labels saying "ethnic food" - and you know it'll never mean Lancashire Hot Pot, or Colcannon.

Properly speaking "ethnic" is a non-racist way of understanding the different ways people live in different places.=, nothing tio do wit race. "American isn't an ethnic background" - well, I'd say it is.

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: Quincy
Date: 05 Mar 01 - 05:16 PM

Northern Irish mother.....Scottish father

Yvonne

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 05 Mar 01 - 05:17 PM

I'm German in derivation "up to here". The "here" being at the outboard ends of the strands of my hair.

Now as to what part of modern Germany, my maternal grandfather was proud of being "A good Holsteiner." For the polico-geographically impaired, that's northern Germany, up near Denmark.

My last name, Oesterreich, is the German word for Austria, and I suppose it is to be presumed that way back some direct male ancestor was from Austria, and that would place the route of family development, so to speak, through southern Germany.

My maternal grandfather and grandmother were born in the US, maybe around 1880, but raised speaking German, Germanic culture. By the time I came along they seldom spoke German except when "die kinder" shouldn't hear.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: catspaw49
Date: 05 Mar 01 - 08:45 PM

Interesting post 'Dough. And I'll also agree with the 'Gin boy in that at this point, being American is becoming a sort of ethnic group, especially in light of thinking about it in relation to Sourdough's post.

As far as ancestry.........Like I said in the other thread, my Dad was half Italian and half German and my Mom was straightline English, tracing back to the Isle of Wight and Cornwall. My life has not been influenced much by any of this, except for growing up in a small town with a large population of Italian immigrants. This influences some of my speech patterns and some other things, like my aversion to Jehovah's Witnesses. (Italians don't like any witnesses)

Spaw

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Mar 01 - 08:53 PM

Cornwall is it? You might get some stick calling that straightline English, Spaw...

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: artbrooks
Date: 05 Mar 01 - 08:57 PM

I'm part Irish (Co. Cork), English (?), French(?), German (Worms), and part who-knows-what that's been in the US since at least sometime before there was a US. Jenn is part English (Nottinghamshire) and part Russian/Jewish (Gomel and Rejkes). I don't think there's any direct relationship except for the interest in Yiddish and Israeli music.

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: simon-pierre
Date: 05 Mar 01 - 09:21 PM

Part French (Poitou) and part... French (Bretagne). That's the secret of my rusty english and the reason why I post so rarely. My ancestor arrived from France in Québec city in 1643, so it makes 350 years that I'm stucked here, and, after 15 generation, France do not want to gives me my French nationality. So I don't talk to them anymore, and I only play and listen american folk. Na!
(and sometimes a little of Georges Brassens, a bit of Renaud, few of Brel, and a lot of québécois chansonniers, but that's all.)

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: hesperis
Date: 05 Mar 01 - 09:28 PM

3/8ths Welsh, 1/4 Russian, 1/4 Polish, 1/8th Irish, 100% musical. I inherited my mother's voice, which she inherited from her dad, who was a soloist in the Welsh Choirs. I have music in my blood from both sides, though. Does that reflect my taste in music? Hmmm, I love celtic stuff, but who doesn't?

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: wdyat12
Date: 05 Mar 01 - 09:47 PM

Art,

Robert Temple founded the now lost town of Cork here on the Kennebec River in Maine. Many of the original settlers of 1714 came back here to live after the Indian Wars. Their decendents still live here today.

wdyat12

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: Lepus Rex
Date: 05 Mar 01 - 09:53 PM

I'm still French-Canadian/Danish/Norwegian/Slovak/Irish/Dutch/Scottish/Welsh/Walloon/English/German/etc... And I still like the traditional musics of all my ancestral homelands. :)

---Lepus Rex

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Mar 01 - 09:54 PM

Cro-Magnon. The only pure blood in existance.

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From:
Date: 05 Mar 01 - 09:56 PM

I'm Irish and Welsh and Native American. mg

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: Amergin
Date: 05 Mar 01 - 10:00 PM

Well, since my family has been here since the 17th century.....I think I have the right of saying that American is my ethnicity.....

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: Sarah2
Date: 05 Mar 01 - 10:02 PM

On my father's side, I'm mostly of Scots and Irish heritage, with what my gran used to refer to as "a wee taint of the Brit here and there." My mum fouled that up, being a Messenger, which lot trace themselves back to Salisbury and the mists of time. My taste in the music I play is probably more connected to family culture than any other influence, though. I do enjoy Spanish folk music, it being very available here in the Southwest U.S., but only for listening...it really doesn't inspire me to play it. I like Texas folk music, and do some of it. But I seem mostly to play Irish and Scottish songs and music, for a preference. They were "my people" and it makes me feel connected to them, like reading old family letters or holding some heirloom one of them made.

Sarah

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: Amergin
Date: 05 Mar 01 - 10:02 PM

meant to add, just like anyone else who has made this place their home....

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: wdyat12
Date: 05 Mar 01 - 10:19 PM

Amergin,

My family too came here in 1640 displacing Native Americans. I'm glad I'm here, but I feel bad my ancestors didn't treat the first who settled here fairly. The French were better at that. They married into the clans and became family.

wdyat12

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: Pondering It All
Date: 06 Mar 01 - 01:30 AM

Mother 50% Irish & 50% Dutch
Father 100% English
All offspring, self included, 100% American
You got that right Amergin!

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: Metchosin
Date: 06 Mar 01 - 02:40 AM

I'm Canajun eh. Hungarian and English coal miners on one side, Scottish coal miners and English tars on the other. Lots of music passed down through the English and Scots, sadly nothing through the Hungarian side, except a lust for nokedli and langos.

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Mar 01 - 04:02 AM

3/8 English
1/4 Russian
1/4 Polish
1/8 Welsh

But I consider myself English. Born and bred here and generaly pretty happy with that. Musical tastes - Hmmmmm. English Folk and Dance. Scottish. Danish. Bulgarian. Probably any other folk or dance music that I have not yet got to grips with. Rock. Heavy Metal. Goth. 60's 70's 80's 90's 00's. Not into Jazz, Classical, 50's or Irish too much but can enjoy some of it at times.

Guess it does sorta fit with my ethnic backgroup - mixed up!

Dave the Gnome

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: Joe Offer
Date: 06 Mar 01 - 05:50 AM

Mom: German-Irish

Dad: German - French/Canadian

Both grandfathers have Jewish-sounding surnames, so we figure we must have Jewish roots, too.

-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: Michael in Swansea
Date: 06 Mar 01 - 06:14 AM

Mother Irish. Mother's parents Irish. Mother's grandparents Irish.
Father's mother Irish. Father's mother's parents Irish. Father's mother's grandparents Irish
Father's father's mother Irish. Her parents and grandparents Irish
Father' father father Welsh. His father and his father before him, Welsh. The mothers were Irish.
So I reckon by blood I'm 11/12 or 15/16 Irish.
Me? I'm a Welsh Catholic Royalist.

Mike

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 06 Mar 01 - 06:14 AM

G'day,

All from Mum's side) 1/16 Irish 1/16 Dutch some distant percentage of French Hugenot the rest presumably (~)English, with a few unresolvred biots over the 170 years that her ancestors have been in Australia

From Dad's side) Unrelenting Midlands England ... not only was great grandfather Bolton born in Bolton, but his ancestors probably built the original fortified town that gave it that name (means ~ fortified town). The Boltons onlt came out here ~ 1911, so they are the Pommy newcomers in the line.

Sourdough: There seems to be less Australian identification with distant European origins. The "Germans", of course, have had the problem of two World Wars, which were much more real to Australians than to Americans. It is only in recent years that these people are regaining the nerve to claim their background ... and the old people are complaining that evryone thinks of lederhosen-clad Bavarians and "oompah bands" ... when these are the sods they came out here to get away from! (Particularly strong feeling among the Barrossa Deutsch, the 1830s refugees to South Australia, from religious and labour intolerance.

We had two more waves of "Germanic" migration - 1860s to Victoria and 1880s to Queensland (in general terms) and all these were refugees from Bismarck's conquest of their independent states and duchies. most of these will call themselves Australians first ... but they are starting to rediscover their old music and traditions in an atmosphere where Australians are paranoid about Asians, instead of old foes like Germans.

Reagrds,

Bob Bolton

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Mar 01 - 06:14 AM

With six consonants and only one vowel I think my surname is probably Klingon...

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: Ella who is Sooze
Date: 06 Mar 01 - 06:59 AM

Right... Mums side, French Hugenouts from 17 Century, two pirate brothers who fled from France during one of the religious up heavals - and probably something to do with being pirates (one of the brothers was deported to Australia for not behaving the other behaved and stayed in the UK). Also mums side... Scots (Stewarts from Inverness), Irish (My great Great Grandparents were from Sligo) have family still in Derry NIreland. Welsh (my gran), English. Oh and Spanish - our family have been around a bit..lol

Dads side, English, Irish (from somewhere in either Cavan or Donegal - not sure, apart from know that his great grand parent did not speak English very well, and was origianally a complete gaelic speaker only.

(but I reckon I'm Welsh - though with a very watered accent)

phew Ella...

where do you stop though!

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: Bert
Date: 06 Mar 01 - 12:10 PM

GUEST - I thought you were 'Piltdown'

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: Pseudolus
Date: 06 Mar 01 - 12:27 PM

I was thinking of starting a "Polish Mudcatters" network but it looks like (according to this thread) only Hesperis and Dave the Gnome would join!! I'm half polish, half French. How I ended up playing gigs in a Irish Pub I have NO idea!!

Frank

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: Katcina
Date: 06 Mar 01 - 01:08 PM

A hunert percent Texan and don't even try to tell me that ain't ethnic.

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 06 Mar 01 - 01:35 PM

I'm from Essex so who knows!!!!
Actually both parents were born in the east end of London-maternal grandmother waqs from Lanark, maternal grandfather from Waterford and both my paternal grandparents died in 1916 and noone thought to ask although I have it on good authority that my grandfather may have come from Aberdeen via Durham! Pure mongrel me!!!

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: GUEST,DANCINGMOM
Date: 06 Mar 01 - 01:37 PM

Mostly English, with a bit of French and Native American on Dad's side. Paternal grandmother taught piano in college, then taught her children, then her grandchildren.I remember sneaking into her "front room" (where children were not usually allowed to go)as a five year-old and plink-plunking out tunes on her ancient upright piano. She never fussed, only went on about how beautiful it was. My maternal granddaddy played the old folk and bluegrass songs on guitar and banjo, and I would dance and dance...accompanied him to a couple of fiddler's conventions in Virginia.

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: Bert
Date: 06 Mar 01 - 03:07 PM

Gor Blimey, Mrs Duck! What part of Londoin are you're parent from? I was born in Canning Town.
And as for Essex - I lived in Basildon as a teenager.

So spill the beans luv! what part of Essex?

Bert.

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 06 Mar 01 - 03:22 PM

Mom's family mainly Highland Scots of the MacIntosh Clan who emigrated to Virginia during the Clearances. GGGGGrampaw served in the Revolutionary War and was paid in land, in this case on the frontier in Kentucky, in an area with other Scotch-Irish settlers. My Mom's Grandfather came home from the Civil War and upset the family by marrying a Native American. She got her revenge, because most of my Mom's family now looks very Indian. Dad's grandfather was Swedish, married an Irish girl.

Guess that makes me a pretty typical American.

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: Jim Krause
Date: 06 Mar 01 - 03:44 PM

Very well, Mariner, I'll bite. My ancestors came to the US of A between the years of 1874-80. All of 'em practically in one bunch. There is a Polish name among the Dutch, and North German names and that name is Sawatsky. All these folks were bi-lingual when they entered the US, but English was not the second language; German was. Their primary language was Low-Saxon, also referred to as Low-German. And there are still places in Canada and Mexico where Low-Saxon is still spoken by folks who might be distantly related to me.
Jim

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: Jim Krause
Date: 06 Mar 01 - 04:08 PM

Oh yeah, and why I should be interested in old-time music, God only knows. It sure doesn't come from my Low Saxon ancestors.
Jim

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: GUEST,Carol's Friend Don
Date: 06 Mar 01 - 04:44 PM

The family name Moore came from a small village near Newtonards, Co. Down, called Morvilla where most of the earliest Moores are buried. You can see Scotland from that point and there's some indication we were driven out during religious persecutions. Our first identifiable ancestor, John Moore helped build the third oldest Masonic Hall in Ireland , and the first the Presbyterian church in Newtonards in the early 1800's and then left for Nova Scotia where he again helped build the first Presbyterian in that region. He carried with him a Masonic document called a "De Mittimus" which introduces him to other Masons and gives his accomplishments. When My brother , my Dad and I when to Ireland last year, we were able to match the handwriting on the De Mit with the actual minutes of the Masonic Lodge for that time. We frankly didn't know we were Northern Irish until that trip. My father's mother was Swiss-English (Spalede-Fossey) and my Moms mother was Cornish (Benbow)and her father was Scottish (Glasson). So one eighth of me is not British Isles. A member of my family has served in every war America has been involved in, with both my Dad and I serving in Viet Nam (He in 1954, with the French, and I in 1969). I suspect that nationality is a function of where your blood was spilled, and not where it sprang from...

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: Irish Rover
Date: 06 Mar 01 - 05:01 PM

I was born in the NI of a Scots father(Cameron) and Irish Mother, the rest is in the song. I was raised with both traditions and religons. I have some very american trates having served 24 years in the US Military......only job I could get with my background

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: Rollo
Date: 06 Mar 01 - 05:35 PM

Well, I am German and all my ancestors are too, as far I know. But what does it say? I mean... Some of them come from the hannover area. Some of them come from Pommern which is now Poland. Some of them come from Saxony. The conclusion is I probably have saxon, danish, swedish, french (hugenotue), polish, baltic, czech, russian and maybe even mongolic ancestors, (but NO bavarian. That is important for a good northern german! *G*) But I first of all I am proud burgher of the city of hamburg, which has allways opened its gates to all who wanted to build its wealth by making their living there! (one reason is as good as the other to sniff at your neigbor, hur hur!

- Okay, stop joking. the essence about my ethnic origins is that I am definitely european. But if someone calls me "human" someday I know I did something right.

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: Little Neophyte
Date: 06 Mar 01 - 05:58 PM

50 percent Romanian
50 percent born from a pack of bandits
100 percent Canadian Jewish Princess

Little Neo

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: BanjoRay
Date: 06 Mar 01 - 06:32 PM

About 85% Welsh and maybe 15% German (my father's mother's name was Lodwick, apparantly changed from Ludwig in the 19th Century. I grew up in a South Wales mining town with a world class male voice choir, brass band, etc. My grandmother used to sing in Eisteddfodau, and my mother has a superb ear for a tune - but my father's family couln't hold a tune in a bucket - maybe that's why I play Appalachian Old Time on the banjo!

Cheers
Ray

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: GUEST,Bruce O.
Date: 06 Mar 01 - 07:05 PM

There a song by a 16th century Welshman, Lodowick Lloyd, on my website.

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: Liam's Brother
Date: 06 Mar 01 - 07:30 PM

Mrs Duck, I would say you're quintessentially British... hardly a mongrel at all!

My father was born in Birmingham, England of an Irish mother and an English father. Were he living, it would be his 100th birthday next Monday. His father died in 1904 and the real father figure in his life was his maternal grandfather, a man from Ennis, Co. Clare who, God bless him, sang.

My mother was born in the wilds of Co. Kerry. She used to sneak out the window and cycle to dances miles and miles away. At 86, she'd still love to.

If I understand correctly, the rest of the story will be in April's Irish Music magazine.

All the best,
Dan Milner

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: Little Hawk
Date: 06 Mar 01 - 07:44 PM

Hesperis - Gus Fyfield does not like Celtic music.

My genetic origins: 1/2 Scottish/English Canadian, 1/2 Czech with a wee smidgin of Oriental blood from when the Huns came rampaging through one time.

My spiritual origins: many, many, many...but I don't want to drive Wolfgang nuts by listing them here.

p.s. I like Celtic music fine, specially when performed by hamsters or their handlers.

- LH

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: hesperis
Date: 06 Mar 01 - 08:29 PM

Hawk - Gus who? (Probably no-one of any importance. Nobody I know, anyway. :nose in the air:)

Carol's Friend Don - Well, I spill my blood on Canadian toilets regularly, does that count? *g*

Pseudolus - Well, I would join. If only to find out more about the trad music and dance...

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: Lyrical Lady
Date: 06 Mar 01 - 09:11 PM

Maternal Grandmother was born in Belgium, her mother was born in Greece, married to a Belgique. My mother was born in Vancouver. Maternal Grandfather was born in Canada to English born parents Paternal Grandparents were Scottish born (Scowry) as was my father. I don't know what that makes me ... mixed up I guess! LL

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: Ella who is Sooze
Date: 07 Mar 01 - 04:49 AM

So... Dancing Mom... does this make you part Piano? I'm confused....

Carols friend Don, Moore is also a family name of mine too... Though we don't know much about that side of the family... Who knows... apart from they came from Donegal/Cavan somewhere.

E

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: Lepus Rex
Date: 07 Mar 01 - 05:11 AM

Wow, LH, you're part Hun, too? Attila is my ancestor. >:)

---Lepus Rex

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: Deni
Date: 07 Mar 01 - 06:02 AM

Father's family from Co.Cork, Ireland, Mother's family from Wales and Cornwall.

I would love to see Ireland the most and play in a real session there, but I haven't been yet!

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: Kim C
Date: 07 Mar 01 - 10:10 AM

German, French, Dutch, English. My gggg-grandmother was a Connoly but I haven't been able to find out anything about her parents. Obviously her daddy was a Celt of some kind. There's also a family rumour that one of my gggrandmothers on my Daddy's side was 1/2 Cherokee - and in truth, she had a very interesting name - but it is rumour and not specifically documented.

The German and Dutch thing, well, that explains why I like beer so much. And tulips. I have always loved tulips. Didn't find out until last summer that I had all these Dutchmen behind me. And one of them, Jacob Van Meter, was a F&I & Rev War vet, and one of the first people to settle Hardin Co., KY. There is a DAR chapter there named after him.

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: Dahlin
Date: 07 Mar 01 - 10:22 AM

French. By way of Quebec on one side of the family and l'Acadie on the other. On est certainement Franco.

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: Snori
Date: 07 Mar 01 - 10:42 AM

My body is in 100% Polish My soul is 50% irish :)

Although one Irish drop flows in my blood. One of my ancestors a was Irish. He came to Poland in 19th century. I have his testimony from 1864 written with his own hand!

Slainte! Pawel Dziemski First Polish Bagpipng Page: http://www.dudziarz.px.pl/polskie.html

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: Metchosin
Date: 07 Mar 01 - 01:28 PM

I'm glad Little Hawk and Lepus Rex brought up the Huns as I always considered them my ancestors and hence the reason for my squinty eyes.

I started to do some searching and found the following:

The Huns occupied the region of today's Hungary around the year 430 and after the death of Attila they were defeated by the Avars. In turn the Avars were chased out of the area by 790. The Hungarians (Magyars), seven tribes made up of some eighty-odd clans of nomadic and pastoral people, numbering perhaps 100 to 200 thousand in all, had by AD 900 occupied all of the sparsely populated Carpathian Basin, where they had arrived in 895. As you can see the Magyars came to present day Hungary around 895. That is 500 years after the Huns.

And the following regarding the Magyars:

Some scholars say that the Magyars came from beyond the Caucasus mountains and are of Turkish origin, others claim they came from Siberia and are Finno-ugric. Most likely they were a mixed nation. The Magyars had been migrating from their original home to the north of the Black Sea. Forced out of Russia by other tribes the Magyar horsemen turned to raiding that was as rapid, widespread and savage as that of the northern Vikings. Towards the end of the ninth century the chieftan Arpad united seven Magyar military units and took possession of the area around the Danube. He became the founder of Hungary's first Magyar dynasty which ruled Hungary from 902 until1301.

There is some dispute now that the Magyars linguistic roots are that of the Finno-ugric language and are now thought to be more closely related to that of the Khanty and Manshi people on the eastern side of the Ural Mountain in western Siberia.

Now this might not only explain my squinty eyes but why I like Arpad's Guz by Mandolirium so much and my affinity with horses..and a few other things.

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: CarolC
Date: 07 Mar 01 - 11:39 PM

Subject: RE: BS: Ethnic combiantions
From: CarolC
Date: 22-Aug-00 - 05:28 AM

Third generation American on my mother's side and second generation on my father's.

Mother; 1/2 Irish, 1/4 German, 1/4 French

Father; English, Scottish, and Scots/Irish, all by way of Canada (my grandfather), and Bermuda (my grandmother).

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: wdyat12
Date: 07 Mar 01 - 11:52 PM

Ella,

Checkout this site if you haven't already. Disregard the politics and seek out your Huguenot roots.

www.eaglering.com

wdyat12

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: hesperis
Date: 07 Mar 01 - 11:58 PM

Metchosin - Mandolirium rules! Though I don't think I have any Hun blood in me... Of course, you never know what came in the back door!

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: JennieG
Date: 08 Mar 01 - 04:43 AM

Like many other Aussies I'm a mixture of English-Irish-Scottish......Scottish GG grandies came out here in the mid-1840's; Irish came here for the gold rush in the early 1850's; English went to New Zealand in the 1840's and married up with the aforementioned Irish who had by them made their way to NZ for their gold rush too. Eventually they all came here to Oz and many years later I happened! So I have them all to thank for the auburn hair and freckles.
Cheers
JennieG

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: Ella who is Sooze
Date: 08 Mar 01 - 05:15 AM

Thanks for the link to the site wdyat, but can you tell me a little bit more about which part of the site I am meant to be looking at. A little hungover today from the bottle of red wine... need to be spoonfed information today.. .

Speak quietly of for ever hold your peace.

Ella

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: Grab
Date: 08 Mar 01 - 08:20 AM

All English. But my grandmother was a Crawford (a cousin traced that side of the family back to some old Scottish crofter) and their family lived out in Hong Kong, moving back when my gran was a girl.

So why do I like playing blues so much?

Grab.

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: Pseudolus
Date: 08 Mar 01 - 09:50 AM

All right Snori!!!! The Polish delagation to the mudcat now has FOUR members! Gotta love that....

Frank

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: GUEST,skarpi from work.
Date: 08 Mar 01 - 10:34 AM

Hello all, my grandfather is born In Arizona, and his father was from Ireland. So I am kind of a Mix up man... hahaha. Just let you all know that I am alive and well, I am watching mudcat from a distand at the moment. All the best to you all. skarpi Iceland.

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: Metchosin
Date: 08 Mar 01 - 10:59 AM

Hesperis you never can tell, up until yesterday I thought I only had a three nationality mix and then I found out I have a Danish greatgrandfather....ye gads.....Vikings and Magyars.....watch out if I'm in a bad mood......

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: LR Mole
Date: 08 Mar 01 - 11:33 AM

Always assumed Irish, but neither my mom's name (my middle) nor my dad's goes that far back. The former means Belgian and the latter means some sort of French, I guess. Equal parts earth, sea, and words is my line.

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: wdyat12
Date: 08 Mar 01 - 01:21 PM

Ella,

Eaglering did not bring up key links to Huguenot records for me today either. However, If you try a search for Huguenot you will get many sites: Cyndi'sList-Huguenot, Huguenot Society of South Carolina, and Olivetree Genealogy, and many others. You can get to Olivetree Genealogy direct with this address: http://olivetreegenealogy.com/index.shtml

Good luck hunting. I hope you feel a little better by now. I was up all night listening to Song Dog on Paltalk. I'm a little groggy myself today.

wdyat12

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: Lepus Rex
Date: 08 Mar 01 - 02:24 PM

All right, at least three watered-down Huns on Mudcat... Every horde has to start somewhere. >:)

Just wanted to mention, Metchosin, some nerdy facts about the Magyar's linguistic affiliation: Hungarian IS still one of the Finno-Ugric languages (which, along with the Samoyedic languages, make up the Uralic language family), and so are Khanti and Mansi (the two Ob-Ugric languages). These three make up the Ugric half of Finno-Ugric. And I'd kill for some Ob-Ugric folk music cds... (Well, not KILL... God, I'd make a shitty Hun.)

---Lepus Rex

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: guest(intruder-inactive)
Date: 08 Mar 01 - 08:14 PM

lithuanian, 100%, all the way back

and did you know, one of the greatest kings of poland happened to be lithuanian?

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: catspaw49
Date: 08 Mar 01 - 08:21 PM

Got a Polish friend went to the optometrist and the Doc asked him to look at the eye chart. My friend did and said, "Hey! I know all those guys!"

Spaw (ducking and running before Frank catches up)

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: Haruo
Date: 08 Mar 01 - 08:48 PM

Half English (largely Listers from up near the Border), an eighth Gael (Clann Rós), a quarter norsk (Jacobsens from around Trondheim), and an eighth unaccounted for. But the Scottish eighth is where my name and most of my ethnic identity, such as it is, comes from. Though of course I identify more with both Esperanto culture and Seattle regionalism than with any European ethnicity. And since my great-great-great-great-great-great-great-uncle, Daniel Boone, was adopted by the Shawnee, I claim 1/256th collateral adopted Native American ancestry, and work sporadically on learning our local language, Lushootseed [properly dx^wlèšucid, but with a schwa where I typed è] (on the theory that if you're going to make a place your home you ought to learn the local language).

I'm not sure whether my ancestry influences my musical interests or tastes much or not.

Liland

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: GUEST,petr
Date: 08 Mar 01 - 09:30 PM

100% Czech, born and lived there first 10 years of my life. My father has recently traced our patrilineal ancestry to 1565 following the family "Grunt" or homestead which oddly enough is no longer in the family but the people that live there are called by our last name, even though its not their real name. Fitting indeed because when my earliest ancestor bought the homestead around 1600 and (made his living as a publican) took on the name of the previous owners of the house. Funny tracing your ancestry back 400 years only to find out your name is not really your name. One of the family ancestors was also an executioner but we wont go there right now.

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: En
Date: 08 Mar 01 - 11:36 PM

I shook my family tree and out fell emmigrants of Czech, Croatia, Austia/Germany, England, Ireland, and Scotland. I was fortunate enough as a child to have heard my great-grandfather's stories about leaving Yugoslavia by himself at the age of 15 and sailing to California in about 1880 to make a life for himself in San Francisco.

My German/Irish aunt was ostracized by her family because she ran away from Kansas to become an opera singer in Philadelphia (when they had an opera company). My Czech dad plays trumpet in a swing band here in California.

We siblings are trying to round out the gene pool by marrying people of varying heritages: Turkish, Cherokee, French, Ukranian, Chinese, Norwegian; we do not yet have delegates from all continents, but we have many offspring here in the diverse San Francisco area, so there is potential.

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: roopoo
Date: 09 Mar 01 - 02:22 AM

As far as I know I'm English on my mum's side, but her maiden name was Thompson, which is Campbell of Argyll, so maybe way back...Unfortunately I know nothing about my great-grandfather of that name except that he was an engine driver, drank, and played the concertina. His daughter-in-law whom he came to live with (my gran) wouldn't let him play it when she was around as she thought it was "common". My mum says playing it was the only time she had ever seen him at peace.

My dad was born on the Ormeau Road in Belfast in 1912 and left at 3 weeks old, He was raised in Scotland (Edinburgh area), where there may have been some ancestral family connection, although his mum hailed from Newtownards in Ireland, and his dad, we believe, from Limerick. His surname was French (Norton-Chappelle) and was said to have arisen from shipwrecked sailors marrying into the local community (there was a wreck in the late 18th century on the SW coast) although my dad always said that it went back to the time of the Armada.

I just call myself half-Irish these days. I was told of other bits and bats: some not an ancestral issue, but my Irish granny's uncles seemed all to head for Oz and NZ, and one of her sisters went to live in Canada at the start of the 20th century. I only have my dad's word that his father was from Limerick, although I know he was previously married, and had some daughters. I can't dig any deeper because my dad's been gone for 15 years. One day, maybe.

Andrea

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: JulieF
Date: 09 Mar 01 - 07:04 AM

I'm Scottish - parents scottish and given that my grandparents were gardeners and foresters - I think we were probable rooted to the land, for a long long time.

It was interesting to hear some mention of Hugenots. Some of Tim's family were chucked out of France for being of this persuassion and ended up in Ireland. Consequently, he is Irish (allowing for the fact that both he and his father were born in England) with a French surname. Almost all the people with his surname in England are related to him.

Cat considers herself a Scot of Irish descent.

Julie

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: GUEST,Carol's Friend Don
Date: 09 Mar 01 - 06:25 PM

hesperis: If you're spilling that much blood in Canadian toilets, you need too learn to sit down... the ring goes down first, and you put your back to the wall... if you can see the handle when you sit, print this out and take it with you the next time...

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: MARINER
Date: 09 Mar 01 - 08:02 PM

Oops, I started this thread and forgot to mention my own origins. So here goes.On the paternal side I'm Irish (O'Leary)and on my mothers side they all originally came from Scotland (Ross) to Ireland in the 18th Century.They were a family of Protestant ministers. The Scots side of the family produced many fine Irish traditional musicians, malodeon players, singers and pipers.One of the last generation made records in the days of the 78.One of this generation is a well known recording artist, in the pop and trad field here in Ireland.Me?, I can carry a tune, sea shantys mainly.

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: hesperis
Date: 09 Mar 01 - 09:17 PM

LOL @ Carol's Friend Don - Since I am female, I naturally spill blood once a month. (I actually prefer to spill it IN the toilet rather than elsewhere...)

Lepus Rex - I wouldn't make a good Hun either. It's bad enough spilling my own blood, I don't want to spill anybody else's. Good thing I'm not a nurse or a doctor, too!

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 04 Jun 04 - 06:23 AM

I'm 100% Hullish.

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: muppett
Date: 04 Jun 04 - 07:11 AM

I was born in London but have lived in Yorkshire since I was 3, my Dad was Born in Dominica in the West Indies and His descendants came from Africa, My Mum was born in Hertfordshire,England, her Dad was born within the sounds of Bow Bells (in London), making him a genuine Cockney, his Mum & Dad were born in county Cork, Ireland. My Mum's Mum was Born in Canada, but her family came form Hertfordshire England, and can trace their family back to the Norman conquest (the Gaunts, related to john of Gaunt).
So when I fill equal opps monitoring forms I class my self as an Anglo Afro Carribean, Irish French Candaian Southerner who is a naturalied Yorkshire man.

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: el ted
Date: 04 Jun 04 - 08:28 AM

Dad ; born in Beverley
mum : born in Beverley
me : born in Withernsea, live in Hull.What went wrong?

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: freda underhill
Date: 04 Jun 04 - 08:38 AM

Race: Hobbits
Date of Birth: September 22, 2894
Date of Death: Sometime after September 29, 3027
Residence: Bag End in Hobbiton; later Rivendell
Parents: Barry Baggins and Tourniquetta Took
currently residing in Mudcat.


Freda Baggins also known as Underhill

(cousin, Bilbo Baggins)

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Jun 04 - 09:03 AM

"His descendants came from Africa.. Ancestors, ascendants, or forebears, surely.

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: Bearheart
Date: 04 Jun 04 - 11:58 AM

50% Hungarian: Mom born Manhattan 1929 but raised in Pittsburgh PA, her mom raised in Portage (coal miners) and her dad in Pittsburgh, her grandparents all born in Hungary in the late 1800's.Family names,GG parents: Danyi, Uveges, Molnar, Kovacs. All farmers as far as I know. My grandmother's family were all musical, her dad played several instruments (I've been told he could play anything he could lay hand to.)Grandma had a good singing voice and loved to sing. My grandfather played violin and a few other instruments. As a young man he played in a "gypsy" band. they were quite poor when my mother was growing up-- she took violin in school using grampa's violin till some bastard broke into the school and stole all the kids' instruments. It was the Depression; Grampa never owned another violin, though they became prosperous later in life.

50% Danish: Dad born and raised in Warren PA 1930, his dad born in the States (probably Warren? I never asked)-Grampa's parents born in southern Denmark. Family names: Coppel/Fredricksen(my greatgrandmother married twice), Kuhre. His mom's family came from Odense, they were Jensens and Rasmussens. Everyone sang in that family. My dad learned violin in school and taught himself to play OldTime fiddle when we moved to Southern Ohio.

Music was a constant in my childhood. We sang together much of the time.The other family pastimes were camping/nature, and fighting. (They were nominal Christians-- but the Viking and the Hun were still there underneath it all.) As an adolescent I taught myself guitar after a fashion. Dad had a love for the old Child Ballads, my sister and I picked that up. Collecting songs is still an obsession. Perhaps more importantly I grew up with the musics of my ethnicity. Particularly my maternal grandparents made sure their children and grandchildren celebrated their heritage, and many family celebrations featured Hungarian music and dance. I am grateful for that. My dad made sure that we heard the music of Denmark. He like my mother grew up with the culture-- his community featured not only a Danish population, but other Scanadinavians, Italians and Seneca Iroquois. We learned early to appreciate our heritage and that of others. It is possibly for this reason I fell in love with Celtic culture.

Curiously I was looking into links between Celtic and Scandinavian culture (none of us are really pure, you know! our ancestors in the main were great travelers, even the more settled folk). The BBC apparently did a program called the Blood of the Vikings -- DNA samples indicate that some portions of Britain are very high in Scandinavian genetic material... not all of the mixes we see are due to conquering hordes, though I guess much of them are. Sometimes there was actually peaceful coexistence.

Bekki

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: Catherine Jayne
Date: 04 Jun 04 - 12:04 PM

Dad was born in London and grew up in Hong Kong. My Mum was born in Hull and grew up in various Yorkshire towns/villages. I was born in Fulford (a designer Outlet stands on the site now so I was definately born to shop!) I grew up in a village just outside Selby and I now live in London!

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: el ted
Date: 04 Jun 04 - 12:04 PM

99

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: Once Famous
Date: 04 Jun 04 - 12:28 PM

Family on both sides came from shtetls in Eastern Europe/Ukraine.

On my father's side came to Chicago in the first wave in mid 1880s.

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: kendall
Date: 04 Jun 04 - 01:34 PM

Since 1635, American. Before that English. Before that Viking.

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: GUEST,harvey andrews
Date: 04 Jun 04 - 06:47 PM

Three quarters English, Irish Grandmother from County Cork.

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: GUEST,Augie
Date: 04 Jun 04 - 07:39 PM

What? Another Hungarian/Dane out there?I thought I was the only one.My Grandfather also mined in Pennysylvania and later Ohio before going further west, and also had a Kovacs in his lineage.

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: GUEST,Chip2447
Date: 05 Jun 04 - 12:19 AM

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: GUEST,chip2447
Date: 05 Jun 04 - 12:24 AM

Trying again...
Heinz 57 all american mutt...
English, Irish, Scottish, French, Norwegian, Cherokee, Dakota Souix, Blackfoot, and who knows what else.

Chip2447(climbing out of the melting pot and howling at the moon)

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: Blackcatter
Date: 05 Jun 04 - 01:20 AM

Doesn't matter - whatever it is - they don't deserve to count me as one of them.

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 05 Jun 04 - 03:28 AM

15/32 Macedonian (not FYROM, the "proper" one that spawned Alexander)
1/32 Roma
16/32 Greek

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: Gurney
Date: 05 Jun 04 - 04:58 AM

Last three generations are English Midlands, but as it has been a mining area for centuries, could be racially anything. English names, but.
Has it affected my music? Well, I prefer English tunes to Celtic ones, but Irish SONGS to English ones, and I have an Irish sense of humour, so there may be a Paddy back somewhere.
Second thoughts: My favourite songs are Geordie, that makes them Anglo-Saxon.

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 05 Jun 04 - 05:51 AM

Missed this the first time around. My mother's parents were from Kishinev (now called Chisinau), in Bessarabia (much of which--including Chisinau--is now called Moldova, between Romania and Ukraine. Part of my grandmother's family emigrated there from Romania, but I don't know when. My father's parents were both from small towns/villages near Kiev, Ukraine: his father was from Buki, and his mother from Podolye. (Here's a map showing Kishinev and Kiev.) All four of them eventually came to Philadelphia, and some time later, there I was.

Aloha,
Mark

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: Kaleea
Date: 06 Jun 04 - 02:57 AM

It would be really interesting if someone were to do a tally of sorts to give us an idea of origins of "average" catters. Just in case someone does this, some of my ancestors met some of my other ancestors as they made their way West across the USA in the past 300 yrs or so. Give or take, as far as I know, a little under 1/2 Irish, about 1/4 Choctaw with a little Chickasaw in that mix, a sliver of Cherokee, the rest English, Scots & whatnot. Undoubtedly, the ancestors from the British Isles were already somewhat mixed up.         There is still quite a family mystery about the time when my mother was young & an aunt from Switzerland came over to live within the shores of Amerikay. Seems no one can now remember how she was related.
    If anyone takes on the tally project, please be sure to take your graphs & pie-charts with you to help us better understand as you give your radio presentation!

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: dianavan
Date: 06 Jun 04 - 12:51 PM

Mostly Danish with Indonesian and Native American. Oddly enough, My Jewish surname came from the Indonesian side and my Danish grandfather
(on the other side) was a Zionist. I wasn't raised with any of the Jewish traditions. I was born in the USA but live in Canada. Although I'm more Danish than anything else, I call myself a Canadian hybrid.

Seems that every other generation has moved to another country. The men marry local women and so it goes. Makes for interesting looking children (none of us look alike), we range from very fair, blond and blue eyed to almost black hair, tannish skin and brown eyes. I look Danish, my youngest brother looks Native and my daughter has lovely, Indonesian eyes. My son is blonde and blue eyed. Every child is a little surprize.

Ethnic origin? Human beings from planet Earth.

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 06 Jun 04 - 07:47 PM

I have no idea other than that I don't seem to be overtly black or Asian.

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: Once Famous
Date: 06 Jun 04 - 07:54 PM

dianavan

Is there such a thing as an unstable gene pool?

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: JennyO
Date: 06 Jun 04 - 10:18 PM

No, but some of us come from the shallow end of the gene pool :-)

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: dianavan
Date: 06 Jun 04 - 10:59 PM

I don't know but I'm sure exogamy creates children of higher intelligence than endogamy. Better than stale genes being passed passed back and forth.

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: Tracey Dragonsfriend
Date: 07 Jun 04 - 03:42 AM

Just for the record - I'm English, grew up in Norwich, East Anglia, now living in the London area. My father's family are descended from the Vikings, and my mother's appear to have been in the Norfolk area since Boadicea!

Cheers
Tracey Dragonsfriend
Scorch's Pyrography

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: YorkshireYankee
Date: 07 Jun 04 - 12:09 PM

2/4 Polish (Jewish), 2/4 Russian (Jewish) (my parents are both 1/2 Polish, 1/2 Russian)

Mom's parents' families had been in the US for at least a couple of generations; all Dad's grandparents (and his father) were from the "old country". Did this influence my musical taste(s)? Hard to say... I *adore* Celtic (Irish, Scottish, Britannic) music & dancing, also love English trad music & dance, as well as Klezmer, Israeli, Russian, Serbo Croatian, Flamenco, Broadway showtunes (my folks grew up just off Broadway, on West 98th St.), and classical music too.

I suspect the fact that my Mom was a dance teacher & loved folk music has more to do with my taste in music & dance than anything else...

Now I'm a "Yank" married to an English (mostly, with a bit of Scot) fellow living in Yorkshire (though it looks like we'll be moving to Denmark in a year or so) with friends in many, many countries. The world gets smaller & smaller...

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: Dave of Mawkin
Date: 08 Jun 04 - 07:50 AM

1/2 French
1/2 American (father's Jewish)

English by heart.

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: Joe_F
Date: 08 Jun 04 - 06:29 PM

Father's parents: immigrant Polish Jews.
Mother's mother: immigrant German, or daughter thereof.
Mother's father: Welsh name, but branches on his side had been in the U.S. since before the Revolution (his mother was supposed to be descended from Nathan Hale), so probably a bunch of mutts.

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: mandomad
Date: 08 Jun 04 - 06:32 PM

Dad born in Dublin, tho' his parents were from County Wexford.
Mum born in Battersea, London, of London parents.
Musical influences...Rock & roll, skiffle,Blues, Irish and Music Hall, oh, and Al Bowley before I dicovered Folk.   Still like them all.

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: Muskratpete
Date: 08 Jun 04 - 09:15 PM

Feeling a little nervous here since I haven't seen too many catters of Norwegian ancestry. Traced my Dad's side of the family back to the 1600's in Norway....Mom's side of the family is from Norway too. I'm the 3rd generation on my Dad's side and 2nd generation on Mom's side to be born in America. Would like to learn more about Norsk folk music.

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: Bearheart
Date: 08 Jun 04 - 09:35 PM

Guest, Augie-- where in Pa did your grandfather live? I'm assuming his Ohio time was spent in the Ohio River country (where I make my home) since most of the mines are down in this area. There is an old pony mine on the property next to ours, and the nearest settlement is Mineral-- just down the road from Carbondale. Both nearly ghost towns now, but in its heyday Mineral boasted its own opera house, electric company and post office...

I'd sure like to know more about everybody-- the family history stuff really fascinates me. I know that my interest in folk music was really stimulated by my family's connections to their roots... and sometimes it's the other way around-- the music is a way to re-discover roots...

Bekki

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: GUEST,augie
Date: 10 Jun 04 - 12:53 AM

Bekki
Family history is a bit sketchy as my Grandpa had passed on 8 yrs before I was born and Grandma didn't meet him until he had left the PA/OH area.I remember hearing Homestead and McKeesport, Pa. but whether that was mining work or steel mills I'm not sure. I know he went to S. Ohio from the Pittsburg area and then up toward Cleveland/Toledo before heading north and west to farm here in Wisconsin.I know every winter, I wish he'd have stayed somewhere warmer.
Best to ya
PMA
(Partial Magyar Augie)

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: Terry K
Date: 10 Jun 04 - 01:21 AM

Originally from Denmark (Norseman), settled in Northern France (Norman), crossed the Channel in 1066 - and the Knight family name came into existence (as a corruption of the old Danish).

The Knights in those days were probably not as grand as the title implies these days, but you can still call me Sir if you like.

Then again, all of the above may be bollix.

cheers, Terry

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: Billy Weeks
Date: 10 Jun 04 - 08:09 AM

Interesting. So far only one contributor (have I missed anyone?) has claimed a tenuous trace of Carribean/African blood.

No African Americans here? no Asians? Do you have to be white/pink/grey to join this forum?

For myself - Londoner, for as many generations back as I have bothered to trace.   It's not an ethnicity.It's an address.

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: el ted
Date: 10 Jun 04 - 08:40 AM

Looks that way duunit? Any beige people out there?

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: John P
Date: 10 Jun 04 - 08:40 AM

I was born and raised near Kalamazoo, Michigan, making me an American. My ancestors' nationalities were Dutch on my dad's side and 1/2 Dutch, 1/4 English, and 1/4 Welsh on my mom's. My ethnic origin seems to be mostly Northern European with a bit of Celt thrown in.

John P

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: Ellenpoly
Date: 10 Jun 04 - 09:16 AM

Polish=Mother's side
Russian=Father's side

I claim no nation for my own

..xx..e

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: dianavan
Date: 10 Jun 04 - 08:12 PM

Billy Weeks - Does a sprinkling of Indonesian count?

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: GUEST,Seaking
Date: 11 Jun 04 - 02:43 AM

Born and lived until 10 years old in Bangor Co.Down. Raised on a diet of Clancy Brothers. Now settled in Felixstowe, Suffolk.

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: A Wandering Minstrel
Date: 11 Jun 04 - 08:52 AM

nearly 100% human but welsh by marriage

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: muppett
Date: 11 Jun 04 - 09:31 AM

Nay Billy Weeks mines not a tenuous trace of Caribean/African blood, it's a strong one & I'd class my skin colour as being shade of mucky brown, on the account of me being out in the sun a tad too long recently in just me shorts & vest.

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: GUEST,Bagpuss
Date: 11 Jun 04 - 09:31 AM

A mixture of Irish, Scottish and Northern English (Northumbrian and Cumbrian) with (I'm told)a smattering of Gypsy from when some of my family were in Appleby (cf the horse fairs).

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: Billy Weeks
Date: 11 Jun 04 - 09:38 AM

Dianavan: Sure it counts. A sprinkling of Indonesian sounds truly delightful.   Send photograph and CV.

But it in all seriousness, the point I was trying to make was that very few of the contributors to this thread have not been talking about ethnicity, which, if it means anything at all, refers to cultural background. The fact that I was born in London of a fairly long line of Londoners is (as I said before) a matter of address, rather than ethnicity. And the fact that someone was born in Belfast, is now living in Boston and came to folk music through skiffle tells me next to nothing about them - certainly nothing about their ethnicity.

i wouldn't want to follow my own line of argument too far. It can too easily end up with silly arguments about who is ethnically qualified to sing certain songs or play particular instruments. Nevertheless, I still find it interesting that one kind of music- the blues - that gives pleasure to many Mudcatters and which has an undeniably powerful set of cultural backgrounds (not all black) might have been expected to flush out at least one response from an African American. This thread has, to my surprise, failed to do it.

I return to my original question. Why is the Mudcat forum so pale in complexion?

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: Billy Weeks
Date: 11 Jun 04 - 09:42 AM

muppett: Sorry, I posted before seeing your latest. Thank you for proving me wrong. But I'd like to be much wronger!

BW

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: Billy Weeks
Date: 11 Jun 04 - 09:47 AM

Oops! And the 'not' in line 2 of my 9.38 posting is redundant. must learn to read before posting.

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Jun 04 - 09:47 AM

Because (at least in the UK) the majority of people interested in folk music are white. If you went to a discussion board about Bhangra music you would probably find the majority were non white. Different ethnic groups have different interests a lot of the time, including musical interests. Nowt wrong with that.

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: rhoda horse
Date: 11 Jun 04 - 09:50 AM

Billy, not everything in the world attracts black or Asian people, There's nothing stopping them joining us here, but maybe folk music aint their thing.

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: muppett
Date: 11 Jun 04 - 10:02 AM

One of the best folk performers I've seen is someone who is Brown skined, this person is Johny Silvo. He performs traditional and non traditional songs from all over the world and his patter between songs is brill. Some of the older UK Catters might remember him from when he used to also be a Play school presenter.
And then of course there was Cliff from the Spinners, so it's not an exclusive club

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: Billy Weeks
Date: 11 Jun 04 - 10:03 AM

And for African Americans the blues ain't their thing?

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 11 Jun 04 - 10:06 AM

There's quite a few people from ethnic minorities involved in the folk/trad music scene in Hull, [Kurdish, Yemeni, Afro-carribean, Asian etc].

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Jun 04 - 10:08 AM

But although this is meant to be site for folk AND blues, there is relatively little discussion of Blues. And once a site gets a bias to one type of music, it is difficult to get the balance back.

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: rhoda horse
Date: 11 Jun 04 - 10:08 AM

Billy, you seem to have a bee in your bonnet about this one. If mudcat and folk don't attract black or asian people, so what? I am unlikely to sample the delights of a Rap site. I doubt if they are saying, " why no whites here then?"

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Jun 04 - 10:10 AM

What exactly is the problem you have about the ethnic balance here? Is it that you think black people should be more interested in posting here? That you think folk here are doing something to exclude them? What exactly is the point?

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Jun 04 - 10:12 AM

Are we meant to apologise for the colour of our skin?

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: Billy Weeks
Date: 11 Jun 04 - 10:21 AM

My God ! what have I started? The question was an innocent one based on observation - and I still find it surprising that - oh, no! I withdraw that last bit. Sorry if I've touched some raw nerves. Just one last thing. Promise. I wasn't attacking anyone or any group and I'm not asking anyone to apologise for anything. And havving re-read my postings I'm truly surprised that anyone has read them that way.

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: muppett
Date: 11 Jun 04 - 11:24 AM

Nay don't be making apologies, some folk will read what they want to in owt that's said here.

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Jun 04 - 07:49 PM

I'm a white Anglo-Saxon Protestant! I can't help that! In this multi-ethnic world I'm almost proud to be one.

Peter

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: dianavan
Date: 11 Jun 04 - 08:00 PM

Oh, oh, a WASP! Aren't they responsible for most of the oppression in the world?

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: Azizi
Date: 09 Feb 05 - 06:39 PM

I am re-opening this thread not to continue an argument, but to post my ancestry-as much as I know-like any other Mudcatter.

My mother's father & mother were born and raised in the Caribbean Island of Barbados. My maternal grandparents came to the United States [Atlantic City, New Jersey] prior to my mother and her two younger siblings' birth in the early 1920s. However, 5 other children were born in Barbados and came to the United States as small children.
My maternal grandparents, my mother, and her siblings are all brown skinned in complexion.

Enslaved Africans were bought to Barbados from the West African nations of Sierra Leone, Guinea, Ghana, The Ivory Coast, Nigeria, and Cameroons. I have always been partial to the cultures of the Yoruba {Nigeria} and the Asante {Ashanti} people of Ghana. However an African man said that I looked like a Hausa {Nigeria} person.
So who knows????

I was told that my maternal grandmother's mother was White. However, I don't know "which kind of White". I don't know anything more about my maternal grandmother's ethnic background, besides the fact that she was of African descent. I have been told that my maternal grandfather had some Indian ancestry mixed with African descent..In Barados that would probably be Arawak Indian I believe.

My father was legally adopted by a couple in Michigan. We know that his brth name was "Walker". Ironically, my sister and my first cousin married cousins from Philadelphia whose last name is Walker.

My father was considerably more light skinned than my maternal grandparents, my mother and her siblings. I would assume therefore that he probably had some White ancestry, and possibly some Native American ancestry. But I don't really know.

My twin sister looked very much like my mother, but I took after my father more, although I am not as light complexioned as he was.

Because they lived in the same city as me when I was growing up, I am much closer to the maternal than the paternal side of my family. Because my maternal grandfather was very active in the church, as head deacon, and other county offices, African American church music was very much a part of my life. Besides children's rhymes and songs learned in school music classes, R&B music was basically the only other form of music that I was familiar with as a child and as a teen.

My former marriage to a jazz musician helped broaden my musical horizons. Eventually I also became acquainted with Caribbean calypso, reggae, soca, and ska, different forms of traditional & contmporary West & Central African music, Zydeco music, and New Orleans Wild Indian chants. And yes, I also became acquainted with Blues.

And thanks to folks here, I am learning more about that genre of music that originated with African Americans.

Azizi

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: jacqui.c
Date: 09 Feb 05 - 08:16 PM

English - one set of grandparents from Bolton, moved to London, one grandfather from March in Cambridgeshire. One grandmother from East London. Parents born in East London - I was born within the sound of Bow Bells so could consider myself a Cockney.

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 10 Feb 05 - 08:29 AM

6th generation Australian with a Borderer (Scottish) surname, with other Scottish, Irish, English & German ancestors.

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: kendall
Date: 10 Feb 05 - 08:44 AM

Viking with brief stopovers in Normandy and England.

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: PoppaGator
Date: 10 Feb 05 - 02:34 PM

Three of my four grandparents were immigrants to the US, and the fourth was born shortly after his parents got off the boat, so my ethnic origins are simple and easily determined: 3/4 Irish, 1/4 German-Alsatian.

Folks whose antecedents have been in America for longer typically have much more complicated family trees with much more mixing of known and unknown nationalities. I imagine it's much the same in Australia.

My paternal grandparents grew up in the west of Ireland, County Mayo, and didn't leave until after they were married. I never knew either one of them; my dad's mother died when he was young (8 years old), and his father passed away the year I was born.

My maternal grandfather was an American-born Irish Catholic whose parents were recent immigrants. I remember him fairly well from my early childhood; he died when I was about 5 or 6. He was very adamant about assimilating, being an American; he never wanted to hear or speak about Ireland. We knew a number of relatives from his mother's side of his family, but never had any contact with any part of his father's family. I have since learned that his surname, McCartney, is considered by some to be a "Protestant name," which, if true, might explain his disconnection from one side of his family and his reluctance to involve himself with Ireland and her "Troubles." That is, in other words, that I suspect that his parents were a "mixed marriage," with his mother a Catholic and his father from a Protestant family ~ perhaps a convert to Catholicism, but perhaps not (which might explain his "invisibility" and some of his son's attitudes).

McCartney, by the way, used to be an unusual name in our corner of the US, and members of our family constantly had to correct people: "No, it's not McCarthy; it's McCart-NEEE!" That all changed, of course, with the advent of the Beatles.

(Squealing young girls used to call Grandma after looking her up in the phone book, asking "Mrs. McCartney, is Paul there?" Thinking they were talking about my younger brother Paul, she'd answer, "Not right now, but he'll be here for lunch tomorrow." Because her house was a block from our school, all us siblings and cousins came by for lunch every day. She never understood the callers' reaction!)

So we've finally gotten to my maternal grandma, the one grandparent I knew and loved for the whole time I was growing up. She and her parents came to America from Alsace-Lorraine, a province in northeastern France that has historically changed hands back and forth between France and Germany with each war. (Both Grandma and her mother, my "Granny," lived into their 90s, by the way; I'm hoping to inherit their longevity.) My Alsatian family was/is definitely German, not French, by language and ethnicity. Perhaps we'd all have referred to the family as "German" rather than "Alsatian" had it not been for two world wars ~ but there were those wars, and Germany was the enemy both times, so our German ethnicity may have been subtly de-emphasized.

In any event, while I identify myself as Irish-American and have a serious interest in and love of Ireland, the one grandparent that I knew best while growing up was the only one of the four who was not Irish.

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: PoppaGator
Date: 10 Feb 05 - 04:23 PM

Oh, yeah, by the way: my ethnic/genetic background has almost nothing to do with my tastes in music.

None of my few living Irish relatives played or sang; I didn't pick up any Geman/Alsatian folk music from my surviving grandma, either.

I spent several formative years (ages 4-9, more or less) living next door to an African-American church that provided losts of wonderful live vocal music to the entire neighborhood, all day every Sunday plus most Wednesday evenings. The congregation could really sing, and the pastor often brought in touring gospel groups. I was able to hear, for example, the young Sam Cooke when he was lead singer with the Soul Stirrers, with a churchful of voices joining in on the choruses. Now, THAT really influenced me!

As far as Irish music is concerned, I like it well enough but I'm neither an expert nor an afficianado. I probably know and love more "songs" (ballads, etc.) than "tunes." Indeed, I don't know a jig from a reel. To me, instrumental Irish music functions primarily as background music for a wonderful convivial lifestyle. (Sorry!) Don't get me wrong: I certailly would love to be in Ireland right now, in a pub, listening to some of that music while laughing, talking, and taking a wee drop. But in my own house, when I want to play some recorded (or broadcast) music for myself, it's more likely to be blues/jazz/rock/funk ~ "American roots music" ~ than Irish Ceili.

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 10 Feb 05 - 10:24 PM

Although my mother claimed to have identified English, Irish, Scots, Dutch, and German in my ancestry, she failed to identify which specific known ancesters were derived from those various "ethnicities." And that's just her side of the family. I suspect that her description was more "family tradition" than actual "knowing." About all that I have been able to confirm from genealogical resources is that one line on my father's side was in the US in 1610, and probably came from England. This line traces back about 3 generations in England, but I'm not sure I believe it all, although the documentation is pretty good.

Somewhat later, in a popularly known line, I can claim that my namesake great great ... great grandfather is the one on the back of the US $10,000 bill. No proof, but I've got a picture of him. (a reproduction, of course.)

Most of my ancestors get lost within about 4 generations back, largely due to inability to spell their own names consistently in the records. The prevailing ethnicities implied by records available are "horse thief," "bootlegger," and "drifter." Ascribing any of these ethnic backgrounds to a particular ancester is largely a matter of interpretation.

I am able to trace probable links to some persons on both sides of the "War between the States," but unable to be very certain about most of these. Suggestive evidence places one ancester among Quantrill's Raiders at Lawrence Kanses; but other equally plausible evidence places the same ancestor in Cuba at the time. Most of the family was in Kansas by about the time of the "unCivil War," with prior residences or antecedents in the Illinois/Ohio/Indiana area; but I'm unable to trace much beyond "they came from that general area."

My S.O., on the other hand, is from a family of relatively recent immigrants, and has found documentation in Ellis Island records showing that the majority of her most recent ancestors migrated from Germanic areas and settled within a fairly well-defined area in Texas.(Apparently they weren't too bright.) She comes from a long line of priests, nuns, and vintners - not much different from my line of horse thieves, bootleggers, and drifters, although it leads to the question "how did they have so many children?" It can be documented that it's largely the vintner's fault.

My children have an additional problem in tracing their lineage, since my ex-father inlaw apparently believed that their mother's family had some deep and very dark secrets that needed to be hidden, and burned all of the family records that his own mother had kept. Having seen what he destroyed, surreptitiously once, most of what he thought might be "incriminating" was harmless stuff like hymnals, psalteries, etc.,' but there were a few newspaper clippings and personal notes that would have been invaluable in tracing the lineage, and are now not replaceable. About all that's left is my recollection that the hymnals were in German (a very vague clue) and that immigration of some ancestors, according to newpaper clippings, was after about 1830. One of the clippings indicated that an ancestor who immigrated at about that time may have brought "her" fiddle, which is also unauthenticated as to value or origin. (Not really worth that much, but it would be interesting to know.)

Family tradition indicates that my two children, from their mother's side, probably can claim 1/16 American Indian forebears, although linkage to any specific tribe (Indian nation) was probaly destroyed in those records. Other means of tracing this branch of their ancestry may or may not be available, but thus far noone has attempted to research it.

About the only lineage I can cite with certainty is "dirt-farmer" by lineage, and "American patriot" by choice, both currently rather in disrepute.

John

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 10 Feb 05 - 11:39 PM

Afro-American,
Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: Azizi
Date: 10 Feb 05 - 11:49 PM

Well Gargoyle,

one thing about African Americans, we're known to claim anybody, irregardless of how much 'blood' they got or how faaaaar back it got there .

Good thing, don't you think??

Ms. Azizi

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: Kaleea
Date: 11 Feb 05 - 11:49 PM

Do we have any statistics yet? Will we get funding from the government with the correct (whatever that is!) heritage? Perhaps if we secede, declare war, lose, then we can get foreign aid!

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: Bert
Date: 12 Feb 05 - 02:09 AM

Mother from East End of London
Dad from East End of London
Granddad from East End of London
Great granddad from East End of London
Great grandma from County Cork Ireland.

BUT - when the abolished slavery in England - after three generations ALL the black influence had disappeared - absorbed into the population.

So If any part of your heritage is English you almost certainly have black blood in your veins. This probably accounts for why I don't sunburn easily, I just tan nicely. So thanks ancestors, whoever you are.

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: Wilfried Schaum
Date: 12 Feb 05 - 09:24 AM

Hessen (Germany) over the centuries. 1 Prussian great-grandfather from the 19th century, 1 eloped Spanish monk seeking refuge in Frankfurt/Main in the 16th century. Wife from Baden (Southern Germany, both sides of the Rhine), prettier than the local aborigines.

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: chris nightbird childs
Date: 12 Feb 05 - 12:40 PM

Well, if you ask my wife, she's Heinz 57 as well, but if you look at pictures of her you see that she's overtly American Indian. Mainly Cherokee & Apache.
I'm not so clear-cut. I'm also American Indian, with light skin, and bits of Scot, Italian, and Irish.
That's right, a pale-faced Indian. Go figure... My family name is LaCroix.

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: Folk Form # 1
Date: 12 Feb 05 - 04:22 PM

Mother 100% English
Father 100% Scots, but with a name like Williams, there must be some Welsh in there.
I believe people's cultural identity to be of absolutly no importance whatsoever and it is disheartening to see those on the Left putting it in to the centre of politics.