Help: Copyright-free songs, eg.Stephen Foster

Subject: Copyright-free songs, eg.Stephen Foster
From: Deni
Date: 07 Mar 01 - 12:37 AM

Please does anyone know an easy way to check whether a song is out of copyright. As well as performing folk music, I run a Music Hall group. The other day on a site called Traditional Music Library, (which is a mine of information as well as sheet music of Trad, and anon songs, plus songs from the folk revivial,) I was interested to see that Stephen Foster's songs are in the public domain. What happens in the case where the writer of a song sold his copyright to a music publisher? How long do you have to wait before that song is copyright-free?

Also, I have a collection of sheet music from the 1880s, including some little-heard or long-forgotten music hall songs and presumably most of these songs would be in the public domain. Would there be anything to stop me re-printing them? (I appreciate that I am possibly the only person in the world who would be interested in such a project.) And does the copyright which exists in the arrangement of a song, exist for a certain time after a publishing house has ceased to trade, or whatever.

Appreciate any thoughts.

Deni

Subject: RE: Help: Copyright-free songs, eg.Stephen Foster
From: Joe Offer
Date: 07 Mar 01 - 02:50 AM

Well, Deni, it gets complicated. In the U.S., copyrights lasted for 75 years after publication, and one year's worth of music was added to the public domeain each year - until we reacked 1923 a couple of years ago. Then there was a bill passed by the U.S. Congress (Sonny Bono was involved), and that bill extended copyrights up to a possible total of 120 years - but it's hard to tell what is what. If it was published before 1923, you're home free. For sheet susic for songs in the public doman, try the Lester Levy Sheet Music Collection (click). They have stuff in their index that isn't in public domain, but that won't display. Anything that WILL display is fair game.

120 years is longer than I would set it, but I think I'm coming to accept the need for a realatively long copyright period. The normal songwriter writes hundreds of duds, and a few very good songs. If I write a song that's really good, I'll perform it myself and sell rights to it for a few years. Then, I suppose I'll want to cash out on it and put the money into a nest egg, or a down payment on a house, or something. I'll want to sell it to a corporation - but the song is of little value to the corporation if the copyright has lamost run out. Who's going to buy a song if it can be available for free in three years? So, I guess I support a moderately long copyright period, but not 120 years. 30 years, maybe 40, after publication seems about right.

Through the years, people have claimed copyright on their arrangements of traditional songs. If it's traditional, I think it's up to us to bite the bullet and ignore the claim of copyright - but we do need to make sure the lyrics we sing for free are truly traditional.

-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Help: Copyright-free songs, eg.Stephen Foster
From: Bert
Date: 07 Mar 01 - 03:16 PM

Deni, you're certainly not the only person interested in these songs. I recently bought a set of old song books from the early part of the 20th. century.

I was thinking the same as you, of publishing them on the web, but I suspect that the copyright issue would have to be resolved independently for each song.
So of course I haven't even started it yet.

I also picked up 14 volumes of an 1890 something edition of The Arabian Nights. I've not counted yet to see if all 1001 of them are there. And I've got to do something with them. I can't let them just sit there.

Bert.

Subject: RE: Help: Copyright-free songs, eg.Stephen Foster
From: Sorcha
Date: 07 Mar 01 - 04:23 PM

You might also check here Public Domain Music It's just a list, no lyrics, and rememeber that even though the song is PD, the arrangement may not be.

Subject: RE: Help: Copyright-free songs, eg.Stephen Foster
From: Burke
Date: 07 Mar 01 - 05:02 PM

Before 1978 U.S. copyrights were periods of fixed duration that needed renewing a couple of times, but a max. of 56 years. In 1978 copyright was changed to life of the author/composer +50 years. In the 90's that was changed to life +70 years. You get that magic date in the 1920's because the 78 law applied to words still under copyright & earlier than 1923 was already public domain. That extended the coverage for anything still under copyright to 75 & now 95 years.

Even under current rules if the creator has been dead for 70 years you are probably safe. The continuing existance of the publisher has nothing to do with it, except in making it really hard to find the person you need to arrange permissions with.

Publishers will claim rights to music they have reset because of editorial changes. Corporate copyright was set at 75 years in 1978 and extended to 95 recently. That area gets confusing, but if you're in the US & your music was printed prior to 1923 you should have nothing to worry about. If you're not in the US, I think the life +50 years rule was in effect far earlier so you don't have 1923 as a safe cutoff.

There have been many previous threads on copyright. If you enter "copyright" in the thread box & refesh for 3 or 6 months you'll get quite a few. Click here for document that explains it more for you.

Subject: RE: Help: Copyright-free songs, eg.Stephen Foster
From: Deni
Date: 08 Mar 01 - 01:51 AM

Thank you chaps for all the help. I'm actually in the UK, so will look at the threads you suggested to come up with more info. Let's hope Bert and I manage to do something with these projects before apathy sets in!

Bye and thanks a million.

Devon Deni

Subject: RE: Help: Copyright-free songs, eg.Stephen Foster
From: T in Oklahoma (Okiemockbird)
Date: 08 Mar 01 - 07:50 PM

My understanding is (but I'm not a lawyer, this is not legal advice, etc., etc.) that the UK now has a term of life+70 for author copyrights, 70 years for corporate copyrights, 50 (or maybe 70) years for anonymous works, 50 years of "related rights" protection for sound recordings (as distinguished from the music on them), and 50 years for producers' rights in films. Also there is a copyright-like protection for typeface and layout, lasting 25 years. This last means, I think, that if you publish a public domain novel with new typeface and layout, a competitor can't simply make a photographic copy of your edition and sell it in competition with you--he has to go to the much greater length of scanning your book into his computer using OCR and reformatting it with different fonts and layout.

The author copyright seems most relevant to your situation. Any work of a single, known author who died more than 70 years ago should be PD in the UK. If it has more than one author, the 70 years (so I hear) runs from the death of the last surviving author. But, I repeat, I'm not a lawyer, nor a UKer.

T.

Subject: RE: Help: Copyright-free songs, eg.Stephen Foster
From: Deni
Date: 08 Mar 01 - 09:02 PM

Bert,

these sheets of music are also interesting as...ephemera...there, that wasn't so hard was it! I've never used that word before.

They are all bound, perhaps in the order they were bought, in different sizes and are really tatty. The spines are strengthened with all sorts, old school ties, tape, ribbon, cloth, and they are stitched in place. They are discoloured and very fragile. I don't handle them very often. Perhaps someone knows where I can buy a music storage cabinet. I once saw a dark wood one with large, shallow, pull out trays, each tray labelled with a small brass plaque. The sheets can be easily stored in alphabetical order, which would reduce wear and tear.

Cheers, must stop waffling... Deni