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Saccharine Overload (songs)

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Shula 27 Oct 97 - 08:42 PM
Tim Jaques tjaques@netcom.ca 27 Oct 97 - 08:54 PM
Akiba 27 Oct 97 - 09:10 PM
Bill D 27 Oct 97 - 11:49 PM
Joe Offer 28 Oct 97 - 12:43 AM
Shula 28 Oct 97 - 02:02 AM
alison 28 Oct 97 - 05:58 AM
Helen 28 Oct 97 - 07:19 AM
Bert 28 Oct 97 - 08:55 AM
Barbara 28 Oct 97 - 09:54 AM
Jon W. 28 Oct 97 - 12:40 PM
Jon W. 28 Oct 97 - 12:43 PM
Bill D 28 Oct 97 - 01:50 PM
DWDitty 28 Oct 97 - 04:36 PM
rechal 28 Oct 97 - 04:44 PM
Helen 28 Oct 97 - 06:03 PM
Sheye 28 Oct 97 - 06:04 PM
Helen 28 Oct 97 - 06:08 PM
Jerry Friedman 28 Oct 97 - 11:11 PM
Earl 28 Oct 97 - 11:57 PM
Joe Offer 29 Oct 97 - 01:24 AM
Helen 29 Oct 97 - 08:33 AM
dani 29 Oct 97 - 10:40 AM
Bill D 29 Oct 97 - 10:54 AM
Nonie Rider 29 Oct 97 - 01:17 PM
DWDitty 29 Oct 97 - 02:02 PM
Bert 29 Oct 97 - 02:28 PM
Whippoorwill 29 Oct 97 - 03:41 PM
Sheye 29 Oct 97 - 04:54 PM
Jon W. 29 Oct 97 - 06:58 PM
LaMarca 29 Oct 97 - 07:02 PM
Barry 29 Oct 97 - 09:40 PM
Speed-1 30 Oct 97 - 02:37 AM
Joe Offer 30 Oct 97 - 02:54 AM
Speed-1 30 Oct 97 - 03:13 AM
Tim Jaques tjaques@netcom.ca 30 Oct 97 - 07:15 PM
Will 30 Oct 97 - 08:03 PM
Tim Jaques tjaques@netcom.ca 30 Oct 97 - 09:52 PM
rich r 30 Oct 97 - 11:26 PM
LaMarca 31 Oct 97 - 12:02 PM
Joe Offer 31 Oct 97 - 04:06 PM
Tim Jaques tjaques@netcom.ca 31 Oct 97 - 05:18 PM
Bert 31 Oct 97 - 11:06 PM
Joe Offer 31 Oct 97 - 11:07 PM
Dale Rose 11 Dec 97 - 03:05 AM
Dale Rose 11 Dec 97 - 03:18 AM
Joe Offer 11 Dec 97 - 03:42 AM
Jaxon 11 Dec 97 - 08:48 AM
Nonie Rider 11 Dec 97 - 06:34 PM
Ron 13 Dec 97 - 01:10 AM
Sir 13 Dec 97 - 04:05 PM
Gene E 13 Dec 97 - 06:30 PM
Gene E 13 Dec 97 - 06:33 PM
13 Dec 97 - 10:07 PM
rastrelnikov 15 Dec 97 - 02:11 AM
Joe Offer 15 Dec 97 - 04:58 PM
Joe Offer 15 Dec 97 - 05:21 PM
rastrelnikov 16 Dec 97 - 01:39 AM
Shula 16 Dec 97 - 11:58 AM
GUEST,margaret 05 Mar 00 - 04:18 AM
Willie-O 05 Mar 00 - 09:31 AM
Rick Fielding 05 Mar 00 - 11:32 AM
Art Thieme 05 Mar 00 - 12:18 PM
Amos 05 Mar 00 - 01:15 PM
Troll 05 Mar 00 - 01:25 PM
BlueJay 05 Mar 00 - 02:57 PM
BlueJay 05 Mar 00 - 03:16 PM
Art Thieme 05 Mar 00 - 09:01 PM
GUEST,The Beanster 05 Mar 00 - 09:39 PM
GUEST,Frank Hamilton 05 Mar 00 - 09:42 PM
Lonesome EJ 05 Mar 00 - 10:39 PM
GUEST,The Beanster 05 Mar 00 - 11:53 PM
Troll 06 Mar 00 - 12:01 AM
Lonesome EJ 06 Mar 00 - 12:10 AM
GUEST,The Beanster 06 Mar 00 - 12:10 AM
Troll 06 Mar 00 - 12:14 AM
Lonesome EJ 06 Mar 00 - 12:24 AM
Troll 06 Mar 00 - 12:30 AM
Metchosin 06 Mar 00 - 01:35 AM
Lin in Kansas 06 Mar 00 - 04:44 PM
pastorpest 06 Mar 00 - 05:22 PM
McGrath of Harlow 06 Mar 00 - 07:45 PM
Lonesome EJ 06 Mar 00 - 10:56 PM
Troll 06 Mar 00 - 11:03 PM
GUEST,Dan Keding 06 Mar 00 - 11:36 PM
Metchosin 06 Mar 00 - 11:51 PM
rangeroger 06 Mar 00 - 11:54 PM
Amos 07 Mar 00 - 01:33 AM
Lin in Kansas 07 Mar 00 - 02:24 AM
Metchosin 07 Mar 00 - 02:41 AM
Homeless 07 Mar 00 - 07:33 AM
Mooh 07 Mar 00 - 08:47 AM
Amos 07 Mar 00 - 08:53 AM
Callie 07 Mar 00 - 08:55 AM
McGrath of Harlow 07 Mar 00 - 09:09 PM
Metchosin 07 Mar 00 - 09:47 PM
Whistle Stop 08 Mar 00 - 02:41 PM
Troll 08 Mar 00 - 03:13 PM
McGrath of Harlow 08 Mar 00 - 03:33 PM
Wesley S 08 Mar 00 - 03:53 PM
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GUEST,Patsy Warren 21 Jul 10 - 06:21 AM
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Subject: Saccarine Overload
From: Shula
Date: 27 Oct 97 - 08:42 PM

Dear Mudcaddicts,

There was a thread a little while back about songs to ditch, but it never got REALLY mean. How about a list of truly terrible, treacle-drippin,' "treasures." (Bound to kick up a row with this'un!) We can call it "Songs to 'heave up' on." Could we sink much lower than the "Barney" theme? "Today"? "People"? Go for it!

Shula


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Tim Jaques tjaques@netcom.ca
Date: 27 Oct 97 - 08:54 PM

Muskrat Love! Anything but Muskrat Love!


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Akiba
Date: 27 Oct 97 - 09:10 PM

Dear Tim,

You may have won this dubious competition right out of the starting gate. I'm a man of strong stomach, but I get green just thinking about "ML." I have it! Someone should write a parody and call it "Mudcat Love." ANYTHING would be an improvement!

Akiba


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Bill D
Date: 27 Oct 97 - 11:49 PM

Oh!! Another highly personal,fraught with ennui thread, which will set friend against friend, husband against wife; sparking debates not seen since Elsie last castigated some hapless seeker of 'rock' lyrics!!!! ok..sure...*grin*...
....(are the following as bad as "Barney"..well, I am able to avoid the 'Barney' song...but these and some others are, or have been, ubiquitious in 'folk' circles I have known...)

"Circle of the Sun" by Sally Rogers (interesting for 2 verses...then drivel!)

"Waltzing with Bears"...*dodging shoes and spare appliances*...so, sue me..maybe it's just my lost childhood speaking..

"I Wish I Had Someone to Love Me"....a serious sentiment, but syrupy and heavy-handed...and often sung as if it needs a calliope accompaniment

"Give Me the Roses While I Live"...actually, it is not 'terrible', but every verse is the same...and it really pales by #3...(sort of nice tune...I will play autoharp to it..)

saving this one till last in this batch-so I can run for the door as the maddened whoops of rage from the 'anything Bill Staines does is wonderful' fan club echo down the halls....

"All God's Critters Got a Place in the Choir"...even I was bemused by THIS one ...once..and half of twice..and I admit, it is fun for the kids-but I will NOT clap & flap my hands, or arms...or 'anything I got' no more...

....well, now that I have THAT out of my system, I think I'll go picket Disneyland...or put on a sheet and burn some crosses....or heckle the Salvation Army Band..something non-controversial..

*he drifts away into the night, wondering how deep he has dug himself in this time.......*


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Joe Offer
Date: 28 Oct 97 - 12:43 AM

Gosh, Bill, you smashed some of my icons there. There are shards of broken idols scattered all over the floor.
Well, heck, if you're going to do that, SMASH!!!! There goes everything written by Rod McKuen, one of my ex-wife's favorites. Gee, that feels good!
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Shula
Date: 28 Oct 97 - 02:02 AM

Does the name "Manilow" make you grab the sea-sick pills and prepare to sacrifice to the porcelain goddess?

Shula


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: alison
Date: 28 Oct 97 - 05:58 AM

Hi

Someone mentioned Disney. My vote goes to "It's a small world." My hubby and I went to Disney World and just happened to be going past the ride when there was no queue, so we thought we'd give it a go. Approximately 10 seconds into the ride we were seriously considering jumping ou of the boat and swimming for it! They played that awful song the whole time......Aaaaaaaaaaahhhh!!!

slainte

Alison


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Helen
Date: 28 Oct 97 - 07:19 AM

Hi all, There are plenty of songs which will make me run for cover, but one of the worst is Ralph McTell's Streets of London. It's out for both counts: every verse is the same, same, same, and the sentiments are so trite. I can't see how people can get so excited when they decide to sing it, as if it is the best song ever written.

If you want to see me leave the room in a cloud of dust though, get a backyard poet to start reading his/her verses.

Now for true confessions - but don't send me a compilation on tape! - I don't know most of the songs you have mentioned so far. Maybe a few thousand(?) miles of Pacific Ocean has protected us Aussies from most of them, except Manilow of course.

Helen, in Oz P.S. Shula, I finally sent you that e-mail (pat myself on the back for finally fulfilling a chatroom promise :-) )


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Bert
Date: 28 Oct 97 - 08:55 AM

"I did it my way" tops my hit list.


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Barbara
Date: 28 Oct 97 - 09:54 AM

"Don't Sell Daddy Anymore Whiskey" deserves extinction.


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Jon W.
Date: 28 Oct 97 - 12:40 PM

How about "Puff the magic Dragon." Sorry, but I have an aversion to made up place names like Honalee.


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Jon W.
Date: 28 Oct 97 - 12:43 PM

Oooh- I almost forgot (wish I had). Not to speak ill of the dead, but how about John Denver's "Annie's Song" You fill up my senses--like a kick in the stomach...


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Bill D
Date: 28 Oct 97 - 01:50 PM

Oh! Yes, Jon, Helen & alison..If it had not been so late when I purged myself earlier, "Puff.." and "Streets of London" would certainly have been on my list- and I am convinced that .."small world..." would also have ME swimming!....and I confess that "Whisky on a Sunday" (is that the correct title for the one about 'old Seth Davies'?) is beginning to feel just like "Streets of London"...perhaps some of these get on my list due to heavy over-exposure and schmaltzy performances, but there IS such a thing as 'good poetry' and 'bad poetry'

and, Helen...I have debated within myself some of Henry Lawsons poems lately set to music..in particular "Do You Think That I Do Not Know"...it just 'barely' remains ok in my judgement...some of the verses get pretty sticky, but somehow overall, it is a pretty powerful piece...maybe it's jusy my mood of the moment...

and Joe Offer, as I typed last night...I knew I was hitting you pretty hard...but cheer up...the Super Glue of your enthusiasm will mend those shattered icons in no time.I never believe for a second that my prejudices will affect anyone elses notions of what songs are fun. (TRUE STORY--at a sing a few years ago, a friend had decided to sing 'Waltzing With Bears'...and just before she began, she whipped a pair of heavy-duty, earmuff type, hearing protectors from her bag and put them on me for the duration of the song..!!)


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: DWDitty
Date: 28 Oct 97 - 04:36 PM

YOU LIGHT UP MY LIFE - Arrgh.
I AM..I SAID-There I go talking to the furniture again.
I NEVER PROMISED YOU A ROSE GARDEN

Ad Nauseum


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: rechal
Date: 28 Oct 97 - 04:44 PM

Anything by Bobby Goldsboro. Particularly about dead wives of Bobby Goldsboro.


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Helen
Date: 28 Oct 97 - 06:03 PM

Bill D I hope there aren't too many "dyed in the wool, true-blue Aussies" reading this, but I agree with you about Henry Lawson's poems. They tend to be pure soap opera as far as plot goes. "Do you think that I do not know" may escape most of that, because it is rumoured to have been written about the woman he secretly loved, while being married. It's soap opera plot in real life, I suppose, but I think that in this case his sentiments were real.

I like the story about the ear muffs ;->

I'm starting to recognise some of these songs now, so keep it going.

Also, have a look at Akiba's alternative thread about halloween songs (soory forgotten the thread name)

Helen


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Sheye
Date: 28 Oct 97 - 06:04 PM

No, please -- not "Born in the USA" !!

Jon W. - I grew up in Donnelly, so we just changed it to that.

There is also a gruesome Brian Adams number: "have you ever really loved a woman". To go back to explain, the Canadian government makes radio stations play a set minimum of Canadian tunes, but don't specify that they should actually be something worth listening to, and as usual, any song heard dozens of times a day, day in and day out, can drive a person to (?).

Oops, not folk (again, Sheye, pick it up, girl)! The beatings will now begin...


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Helen
Date: 28 Oct 97 - 06:08 PM

Sorry, can't spell "sorry" :-) Helen


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Jerry Friedman
Date: 28 Oct 97 - 11:11 PM

Second the motion on "Annie's Song" (three One two three One, One) and "You Light up my Life". (And what was a nice Christian girl like Ms. Boone doing singing "It can't be wrong if it feels so right"?)

On the other hand, some of these candidates are ones I learned in childhood and still have good feelings about, such as "Puff the Magic Dragon" and "Today". Also on the other hand, I don't see much saccharine about "Born in the U.S.A." Though Bruce did try to have it both ways--some people sing along with the chorus and some listen to the verses.

We've left the whole Streisand vein unmined. What about "People who Need People"? And for sheer absurdity, what about the surf-music songs about cars? But the winner of the Saccharine Sweepstakes has to be "Sugar Sugar".


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Earl
Date: 28 Oct 97 - 11:57 PM

How about Up With People and their wonderful theme song "Up With People."

Does anyone remember "Hey Hey Paula" by Paul and Paula?


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Joe Offer
Date: 29 Oct 97 - 01:24 AM

Gee, I dunno here. The icons have been smashed. The sacred cows have been lead to slaughter. Is there any music left that we're allowed to like?
Personally, I think we're all in need of a regular dose of schmaltz. It's what keeps us human. Expressions of warmth and emotion do tend to be a little syrupy, and the songs that are close to our own hearts are often the very ones others consider maudlin.
Now, in total honesty, I must admit that I regularly sing songs I think are horribly tasteless. I sing in a choir in a Catholic church. In fact, I sing in TWO church choirs, and both of them sing a lot of bad music. And if the music isn't bad, then the lyrics are theologically unsound. I joined the choirs because I disagreed with their selection of music, and I thought I could improve things better from within. As it turns out, I find I've had to compromise my values and sing what people want to hear. I am able to get rid of the very worst hymns, but I sometimes find myself liking songs I once hated.
My basic point is that I think we should use caution in our criticism. If people like a song, if it moves them, I see no need to burst their balloon. Music is a wonderful tool for expressing what's within our hearts. Our most heartfelt songs are often far from perfect in artistic quality, but that's OK.
But I still hate Rod McKuen.
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Helen
Date: 29 Oct 97 - 08:33 AM

But Joe, Hate is such an *unchristian* emotion ;-> Helen


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: dani
Date: 29 Oct 97 - 10:40 AM

Joe, your point is well taken. In my church (Unitarian Universalist) there is a joke, "Why are Unitarian Universalists terrible singers? Because they're always looking ahead to see if they'll agree with the words!"

However, bad is bad. But for the sake of argument, could we hear from anyone who'd like to defend any of the above *gems*? I'll defend 'Sugar Sugar' - wasn't that a centerpiece of the old Archies phenom? Their records were on the backs of cereal boxes - 45's that you punched out of the cardboard to play. Bobby Sherman was another of these, as I recall. These were the first of my music collection! Though I like to think my taste has broadened some in the ensuing years, don't begrudge a fun start!

At the risk of alienating a nation, I'd like to submit the name (and voice, and all the songs) of Gordon (it's been good to know ya) Lightfoot.

Dani


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Bill D
Date: 29 Oct 97 - 10:54 AM

dani....then you probably know that old Unitarian hymn..."We Would Rather Not be Moved"


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Nonie Rider
Date: 29 Oct 97 - 01:17 PM

Yeah, I'd give high votes to "You Light Up My Life," as well as (sorry!) "In the Living Years."

But then, I don't tend to go to movies billed as "Heartwarming" either.

(Ditto "Bittersweet," which means one of the main characters dies AND it's supposed to be heartwarming...)


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: DWDitty
Date: 29 Oct 97 - 02:02 PM

Being raised as a Unitarian, we often prayed:

"God, if there is a God, have mercy on my soul, if I have a soul."


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Bert
Date: 29 Oct 97 - 02:28 PM

Dani,

I'll stick my neck out and defend "Streets of London" for several reasons....
1. That's where I was born.
2. I think we need to do something about the homeless.
3. I can "SEE" that old man in the all night cafe.
4. It reminds me of the song "While London Sleeps" which is even more of a tear jerker and was certainly part of Ralph Mctell's cultural heritage. I like to imagine that it was running through his mind when he wrote "Streets of London"
5. At time when it seems too sentimental I think that it is partly because it stirs up some guilt feelings for too often ignoring the homeless.

Bert.

P.S. and lay off of Gordon Lightfoot ;-)


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Whippoorwill
Date: 29 Oct 97 - 03:41 PM

Since we're reduced to being sacriligeous, I have to admit that anything by La Streisand sends me to the lee rail; ditto everything Elvis recorded after he left Sun Records. Hell would be listening to those two sing duets down through eternity. AAAARRRRRGHHH!


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Sheye
Date: 29 Oct 97 - 04:54 PM

Just bought Gordon Lightfoot's "If You Could Read my Mind" CD and listened to "Sit Down, Young Stranger". Twice. Confessions of the quiet one in the corner...we still buds, dani?


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Jon W.
Date: 29 Oct 97 - 06:58 PM

I don't know much about Gordon Lightfoot, just "the wreck..." but what about Neil Diamond -- "Song Sung Blue", musically about as far from the blues as you can get -- "Turn on your Heart Light" -- If I'd been ambitions in 1982 I could'a made a fortune selling "E.T. Go Home" bumper stickers...


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: LaMarca
Date: 29 Oct 97 - 07:02 PM

Joe, as a confessed very Ex-Catholic, one of my top votes for abominations goes to "The Cannibal Song"(my name for it) sung in folk-masses in the late 60's-early 70's. You know the one, the bouncy little melody with the words:
    Sons of God, hear His holy Word,
    Gather round the table of the Lord,
    Eat His body, drink His blood,
    And we'll sing a song of love,
    Hallelu, hallelu, hallelu, halleloo-oojah...
A couple of my friends who survived Catholic school and I performed this little number at a "Folk Nerds From Hell" theme party a few years ago, and won a prize for true tastelessness. We had trouble convincing the other people it WASN'T a parody...

My votes for icky folk saccharine are for songs that people do REALLY seriously, (rather than tongue in cheek, recognizing the treacliness; it's kinda like the difference between putting up Pink Plastic Flamingos as a joke, and putting them up because you think they're a truly beautiful decorating statement...For instance, I've never heard anyone do Henry Clay Work's "Father, Dear Father, Come Home" as though they REALLY believed in its deep pathos and temperence message...). I've appended my rather cynical renditions of the songs' messages, or my inner responses to them while they're being sung (I hope my shrink doesn't see this).

Streets of London -"Your problems can't possibly be real because these folks are worse off, so stop whining"
Gathering Flowers for the Master's Bouquet - "Hey Gabriel, go pick me few more; these are looking kinda wilted..."(sorry, Rita)
I Wish I Had Someone to Love Me - so go take out a personals ad or something!
Lovely Agnes - (I'm surprised you forgot this one, Bill) nice story, sicky sweet song formerly overdone in our area
Once, Just Once, in a Very Blue Moon - about as often as I want to hear this song...
From a Distance - where I want to be when someone is earnestly trying to sing this song...

Non-folk drippers:

Honey, by Bobby Goldsboro - some comedian, maybe Carole Burnett, did a hilarious skit of the husband giving guided tours through "Honey's" house, with the wrecked car in the living room, and other touching mementoes...
Billy, Don't Be a Hero
any of the dead teenager songs - Teen Angel, Leader of the Pack, D.O.A., etc.
I Am Woman - a pseudo-feminist anthem
I've Been to Paradise (But I've Never Been to Me) - an anti-feminist anthem
You're Having My Baby - AArrggggh!
anything by The Carpenters - Close To You, We've Only Just Begun, etc.
anything by Bread (although my heart gushed over them when I was 13; now my stomach turns) - The Diary, If a Picture Paints a Thousand Words (Then Why Can't I Paint You?), etc.

You have to realize this response is coming from someone who really likes Bertold Brecht, Richard Thompson and other doom-and-gloom cynics; remember, a pessimist is never un-pleasantly surprised...


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Barry
Date: 29 Oct 97 - 09:40 PM

Maybe you'll all get a little bored with this stuff & try some of that traditional, what 'd they call it, folk stuff that's been going round these days. Barry


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Speed-1
Date: 30 Oct 97 - 02:37 AM

All right all you mean spirited cranky people, (people who need people), I am going to stand up in the midst of you jaded intellectuals and ask," Can't we all just get along?"

I like, no darnit, I LOVE-

Muskrat Love
Carpenters
Gordon Lightfoot
Barry Manilow
The Barney song
Neil Diamond
John Denver
Puff the Magic Dragon
Barbra Streisand
Unitarians
London, England
Disneyland
Motherhood
Apple Pie
The Constitution of the United States
Right Turns on red after coming to a complete stop
Infomercials by Ron Popiel and Tony Robbins
The theme to Final Jeopardy
New York in June
Waltzing Matilda (Billy bong and all!)

My oldest daughter has read my list and insists I stop so she can sign on and disavow any knowledge of my existence (does that make her a figment of my non-existence?)

Speed


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Joe Offer
Date: 30 Oct 97 - 02:54 AM

LaMarca, No!!! Not the dead teenager songs!! Before you do away with them, give a listen to Steve Goodman's medley. You'll see those songs in a whole new light. He had a great time hamming it up on "Tell Laura I Love Her." Those songs are so funny, and so much fun to sing.
Well, at least I'm glad nobody started picking on girl group songs. I do a great falsetto on "Soldier Boy." It ruins my voice for a week but it's such fun. We have a subgroup of our church choir who call themselves "The Extremes" - they do girl group songs for non-liturgical occasions. They let me fill in when one of the girls is missing.
You were my first love
And you'll be my last love
I will always love you, boy
I'll be true to you
In this whole world
You can love but one girl
Let me be that one girl
An I'll be true to you.
But I refuse to do it in drag, and I insist on doing "Chantilly Lace" afterwards to get my male self-respect back.
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Speed-1
Date: 30 Oct 97 - 03:13 AM

Dear Joe-

Thanks for UNBOLDING me. I was frantically trying to find how to fix it, and you jumped in and saved my tush -

Now how do I tell you that I once liked Rod McKuen (I think I have outgrown him, but your reason for hating him is visceral).

Speed


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Tim Jaques tjaques@netcom.ca
Date: 30 Oct 97 - 07:15 PM

I don't know that Waltzing With Bears is very sacchrine. It is just a kid's song. I thought we were talking about Supersacchrine Songs and Dead Puppy Laments.

Truth be told, many people like overly-sentimental songs, or what to my ear sounds like an overly- sentimental song. What is overly sentimental in a song is a matter of opinion, I suppose, just as what is overly sweet in a wine. People who are constantly hugging and kissing and being nice to each other have a higher tolerance for this kind of thing. Being alone, sour, and defensive of personal space, I am not one such person.

I defend Streets of London. It's a sad song, but not over done. I see these people all the time, staring into their coffees at restaurants, old and lonely. And there is nothing wrong with telling people to stop their whining. ( If you don't like this song, then you may as well add "Hello In There" to the list.) It's probably that one hears it so often by second-rate singers, and the rhyme scheme is off in one of the verses.

"My Way" is not sugary, just vain boastfulness. Sugar Sugar by The Archies was bubblegum, and bubblegum is supposed to be sweet. What do they listen to now? Rap and Death Metal, screeching and pounding and gutteral calls for violence and cruelty. Give me kids listening to Sugar, Sugar any day.

Maybe I don't like Muskrat Love because I don't like muskrats, or any other similar rodent vermin. I have to say "Honey" is probably the best nomination on this list yet, a five-star stinker if ever there was one.

What about that song about the boy and his dog? "When I was a boy, I had a dog ---- Shep? Shemp?" Over the meadows and all that.

Can't think of any traditional songs that fall into this category.


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Will
Date: 30 Oct 97 - 08:03 PM

Here's another voice that likes Gordon Lightmetre (he changed his name when Canada went metric a few years back), or at least a lot of him. And Streets of London is fine, if a bit earnest.

While the Goldsboro doesn't appear to have much redeeming musical value, there appears to be someone out there who can stomache the schmaltz, so who knows ....


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Tim Jaques tjaques@netcom.ca
Date: 30 Oct 97 - 09:52 PM

There must surely be a vast list of country-and-western songs that fall into this category, but for the life of me I can't think of any titles at this time. Mommas, and dogs, and weeping sweethearts and letters home from Viet Nam -- didn't Merl Haggard have such a song about a letter from a POW camp?

Any Victorian songbook would also yield up a list of dreadful tear-jerkers, but I assume the songs have to be current to qualify.

Then there are those pop "ballads" sung at weddings by earnest young ladies, usually cousins of the bride, accompanied by a somewhat out of tune piano. This might be part of the reason why I have remained a bachelor for all these years. Torture! That confounded song about a rose is heard every time two people tie the knot, and more recently, that one about being someone's hero and wind beneath the wings and whatnot. Whatever happened to good old classical sacred music, and choirs and pipe organs? If I was a priest or parson, I'd ban all such secular, AM radio caterwauling from God's House. (I've never been to a Jewish, Muslim, Hindu or Buddist wedding, so I don't know what they do.)


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: rich r
Date: 30 Oct 97 - 11:26 PM

I'll juump in with agreement on the wedding syrup, kind of sticks to your beard and won't go away.

I probably have to attribute a lot of my biases to my childhood circumstances (it's not my parents fault, rip). I had forgotten all about Bread, and was quite content to leave it that way. ACtually the first couple times I heard "Diary" I actually thought they were singing "dairy". Made sense to me, growing up in Wisconsin where yellow colored margarine was illegal and my uncle would make an occasional run to Illinois and load up the trunk with contraband, bread and butter, bread and dairy, quite logical. The same surrounding leads me to defend "Lovely Agnes". I lived my first `6 years on the shore of Lake Michigan. The subject of the song was the first woman chemistry major from the University of Wisconsin. I was a biology and chemistry major in college. I got my molecular biology degree at the University of Wisconsin. I have fond memories of trips to the cherry orchards. That song is not nutra sweet, it's about the old home.

I think the consensus here is that Gordon Lightfoot stays, and he should. About the only LIghtfoot I don't really care for are his pre-"folk singer" efforts to become a Canadian country singer (actually made the charts with one). Besides my childhood again (you don't mess with the childhood of someone over 50). One of my favorite books at home when I was about 8 was the adventure of a deer named (ta da) Lightfoot. Again perfectly logical.

One final thought on "Waltzing With Bears". I have watched loved ones suffer and die with Alzheimer's disease. To me WWB describes their plight and is more than a kids song. "Dancing With Wolves" is another story however.

byenow

rich r


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: LaMarca
Date: 31 Oct 97 - 12:02 PM

I love 50's-early 60's girl-group and doo-wop stuff, Joe (although I'm a little young to have heard it as it was happening)! All of the early King/Goffin, Lieber/Stoller or Phil Specter stuff is great fun. Tim, you reminded me of one of my favorite dead dog songs,"Why Won't You Send My Dog Home, Uncle Sam?", the pathetic tale(tail?) of the little blind boy who sends his dog off to WWII; I think it was a Hank Snow hit...I don't want to get rid of this one, even though it qualifies as Nutra-Sweet™ material if done seriously; Bob Clayton in our neighborhood does an excellent job of walking the VERY fine line between campiness and drippiness when he sings it.

Rich R, I'm a cheesehead, too; we transplanted to Appleton from New Jersey when I was 9, and I remember Mom smuggling Blue Bonnet home from her parents' in Gary, Indiana to avoid having to buy that awful white stuff with the little yellow food color packets to mix in (the only form of margerine legal in Wisconsin in 1965). Guess that's why I always liked "The Female Smuggler". I am also a not-so-closet Light0.308meter fan; I defy anyone to call "Black Day in July" saccharine.

I think the element of artificial sweetener (remember cyclamates? Can you still get them in Canada?) enters into any of these songs when they are done by mediocre singers who take them dead seriously. For example, a good singer can communicate the original emotion of a Victorian music hall song to an audience without descending into smarminess (listen to Maggie Pearse or David Jones sometime), while a bad singer can ruin even the best written emotional song.


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Joe Offer
Date: 31 Oct 97 - 04:06 PM

Well, it really ticks me off that although I call Wisconsin home, I can't be considered a true Wisconsinite since I didn't move there until I was ten. The "Lovely Agnes" song seems backwards to me, since I left the city life of Detroit to live near the cows and the truck farms on the western shore of Lake Michigan. It was a good place to grow up. The strawberries and sweet corn were terrific. I think "Lovely Agnes" and "Edmund Fitzgerald" are nice enough, but I believe the Great Lakes deserve better songs than those. An area so remarkable deserves songs that are remarkable.
I guess I have to confess to being a "true Californian," since most Californians are like me and weren't born here. I've lived in California since 1973, but I still don't quite feel like it's home.
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Tim Jaques tjaques@netcom.ca
Date: 31 Oct 97 - 05:18 PM

But what was the song about the dog named Shep? It has been bothering me all day.

I submit that anything by Red Sovine automatically qualifies for the list.


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Subject: Lyr Add: OLD SHEP
From: Bert
Date: 31 Oct 97 - 11:06 PM

Old Shep

When I was a lad, Old Shep was a pup
Over fields and meadows we strayed
Just a boy with his dog, we were both full of fun
we grew up together that way

I remember the time at the old swimming hole
When I would have drowned, beyond doubt
Old Shep was right there, to the rescue he came
He jumped in and helped pull me out

The years fast did roll, Old Shep he grew old
his eyes were fast growing dim
one day the doctor looked at me and said
I can't do no more for him Jim

With Hands that were trembling, I picked up my gun
I aimed it at Shep's faithfull head
I just couldn't do it, I thought I would run
I wished they would shoot me instead

Old shep he has gone, where the good doggies go
no more with Old Shep will I roam
but if dog's have a heaven there's one thing I know
Old Shep has a wonderful home.


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Joe Offer
Date: 31 Oct 97 - 11:07 PM

"Old Shep" is a Sacred Elvis Ballad, Tim. After Elvis blows Sheps head off, it ends this way:
Old Shep, he has gone where the good doggies go
No more with Old Shep will I roam
But if dogs have a heaven, there's one thing I know
Old Shep has a wonderful home.
Now, if you want the rest of it, you'll have to go to Cowpie. I've got tears dripping onto my keyboard, and I just can't bring myself to type any more.
Sob!!!
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Dale Rose
Date: 11 Dec 97 - 03:05 AM

Recently in one of the threads, the really sad, morbid, sentimental type things were being discussed, but I can't find it, so I am putting this here, being the closest I can find. It was probably one of those threads that started out in one direction, then made a sharp zag into parts unrelated.

While going through old sheet music as part of my job today, I ran across this one: For Sale-A Baby by Charles K. Harris, 1903. In it, the mother is lamenting the fact that she has no money to feed her dear little child, so she puts a sign in the window, "For Sale-A Baby". The passerbys all look and smile as they go by, but none stop to investigate. The child sickens and dies, and so does the mother. Right offhand, I can't think of many of the dead baby songs that can top that. Another one in the same genre that I saw today was The Fisherman And His ChildI rather imagine that you can write the script for that one yourself.


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Dale Rose
Date: 11 Dec 97 - 03:18 AM

Now that I have that one out of the way, let me put in a plug for Maura O'Connell doing Maggie~~great sentimental song, done with sincerity and style by an outstanding vocalist who doesn't get nearly enough credit for her talent. Check your PBS schedule for the program, Gael Force, during pledge time. Maura sings it with DeDannan near the beginning of the program. There are many other highlights, including Maura O'Connell, Elanor Shanley, Tommy Fleming, and Mary Black doing Hard Times Come Again No More, the best version I have ever heard.


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Joe Offer
Date: 11 Dec 97 - 03:42 AM

Dale, do you think you can post the lyrics of those dead baby songs? I think we'd get a kick out of them.
Now generally, I like the sentimentality in Stephen Foster songs. A couple of weeks ago, I got an overdose. I visited the Stephen Foster museum in Florida, a concrete block replica of a plantation house, built in the 1950's where the Suwannee River hits the Interstate. The museum had dioramas depicting the most popular Foster songs, with motorized slaves picking cotton and a steamboat that actually moved. Truly tacky. Y'all oughta stop to visit. It's good for a laugh.
-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Jaxon
Date: 11 Dec 97 - 08:48 AM


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Nonie Rider
Date: 11 Dec 97 - 06:34 PM

Having heard both major versions of Weela Wallia (however spelled), I gather there's a traditional crime ballad in which an unwed mother stabs her baby in the heart and is executed for it, and a farcical modern version in which she stabs the baby in the head (odd place to choose...), with wonderful klunker lines like "The moral of this story is/Don't stick a knife in t'babby's head."


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Ron
Date: 13 Dec 97 - 01:10 AM

How about any song that Kathy Lee Gifford might sing ?


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Sir
Date: 13 Dec 97 - 04:05 PM

Not many older quasi-folk songs have been listed. How about "Just Before the Battle, Mother"?


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Gene E
Date: 13 Dec 97 - 06:30 PM

Funny my most hated list is almost exactly the list that Speed-1 likes: Carpenters Gordon Lightfoot Barry Manilow The Barney song Neil Diamond John Denver Puff the Magic Dragon Barbra Streisand, England Disneyland Infomercials by Ron Popiel and Tony Robbins The theme to Final Jeopardy New York in June Waltzing Matilda and the whole new genre, "Young Country"!!!!

If it ain't bluEs, it ain't nuthin'

Gene E (Very formerly Elwoodelta)


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Gene E
Date: 13 Dec 97 - 06:33 PM

Man, I'm really confused!

I think that Saccarine is the Overlord.

Gene E


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From:
Date: 13 Dec 97 - 10:07 PM

There is the story of how when Jerry Garcia died he found himself in a room with with Jimi Hendrix and Jim Morrison. He thought "Man, I never thought I'd make it to heaven!". Karen Carpenter then enters the room and and announces "Okay, boys, the breaks over. Let's take it from the top- 'I'm on the top of the world looking down on creation...'"


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: rastrelnikov
Date: 15 Dec 97 - 02:11 AM

There are certainly many saccarine songs I don't like. The only one I can think of that I've heard performed more than once by singers/musicians that I respect at jams is: From A Distance. Ugh! And All God's Critters (have a place in the choir). And for that matter, The Garden Song. Or how about that Cohen song, Hey, That's No Way to Say Good-bye. Can you imagine having the nerve to tell a woman that everything is still sugar and spice even though you're dumping her?

Regarding Lightfoot, I'd have to say that I think Edmund Fitz is a fourth rate song, but not too saccarine, and that Gordy has recorded a few first rate songs back when he had a voice, some of which are utter saccarine. Pussywillows, cat-tails, for instance. Great song. 100% saccarine.

One thing I can't stand though is sentimentality about war. Take 'Christmas in the Trenches'. Starts out great. Then it suggests that if only we remembered the common grunts in the other army are just like us, we wouldn't fight wars. Eep! Do wars usually get started because we're afraid of the differences in the common people of the other side or because the leaders of one side see weakness and an opportunity for profit?

Ain't it fun to vent?


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Joe Offer
Date: 15 Dec 97 - 04:58 PM

I think a number of the songs listed above don't deserve the criticism they've received here. We've listed a lot of pretty-good songs, and even a few wonderful ones. I think it's just a matter of familiarity breeding contempt. Either that, or we make the mistake of calling a song "profound" when it doesn't deserve the title.
"A Place in the Choir (All God's Critters" is a cute song, but people perform it in church and draw all sorts of deep meaning out of it - and that sort of treatment simply destroys a song. Same with "Waltzing With Bears" - call it cute, fun, whimsical - but PLEASE don't call it inspiring.
Once upon a time, I made a request at a John McCutcheon concert - that he NOT perform "Christmas in the Trenches." He didn't honor my request. I really enjoy his concerts, but I've certainly grown tired of that song. It's a nice song, all right, but enough is enough.
McCutcheon redeemed himself recently by writing "Johnny Don't Lick That Pipe," a song that explains why we Midwesterners are so attracted to pump handles in the winter. I had to move to California so that nothing dreadful could happen to me.
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: Lyr Add: TOMMY DON'T LICK THAT PIPE (McCutcheon)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 15 Dec 97 - 05:21 PM

Here's the McCutcheon song I was talking about. I gave the kid the wrong name.

TOMMY DON'T LICK THAT PIPE
(c) 1995 John McCutcheon/Appalsongs (ASCAP) & Si Kahn/Joe Hill Music (ASCAP)

Winter is a-coming
And the weather's getting cold
I have to watch my brother Tom
He's eight years old
I never have to worry
That he'll slip on ice and fall
In fact there's only just one thing
That worries me at all
Tommy, don't lick that pipe
Your tongue will stick like glue
I've warned you twice
And I wish you'd mind
Don't you remember
What happened last time
You can do about anything else that you like
But Tommy, don't lick that pipe
Do you still remember Uncle Albert
Such scientific curiosity
He stuck his tongue out on the old pump handle
It took us two whole days to get him free

Do you still remember Grandma Dawson
She touched her tongue on to a waterspout
She said she thought that it was made of plastic
It took us until May to thaw her out

Do you still remember our dog Fluffy
He went outside to do his doggy thing
We found him frozen solid to a hydrant
We couldn't break him loose until the spring

Profound, isn't it?
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: rastrelnikov
Date: 16 Dec 97 - 01:39 AM

Just curious... anyone out there who hasn't seen another kid with their tongue stuck to something metal in the winter? I felt so surprised when the kid I saw was able to rip his tongue away with only a little blood. (sigh)

Twas Christmas in the schoolyard
Where the frost so bitter hung
Those bike racks there, so hard and cold
Lying await for some kid's tongue...

Love the song, love the memories. Thanks, Joe!


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Shula
Date: 16 Dec 97 - 11:58 AM

Dear Joe ,

When I suggested we list disgusting songs, the ones I had in mind were disgustingly SWEET. This discussion of tongue-ripping selections ought more properly to be included in a list of songs about maiming and bodily mayhem, or better yet, rank stupidity. ( Not even ol' Sanc wooda got hissef inta sech a tiklish fix uz thet thar'un!)

Dear rastrelnikov,

I, too, find songs that sentimentalize war suspect, but for the sake of argument, I will confess to a fondness for "I'll Be Home For Xmas," which is about as sentimental as they come.


Shula


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: GUEST,margaret
Date: 05 Mar 00 - 04:18 AM

The "old shep" my daddy use to sing is not the same-longer and sadder-the kid grows up, goes to war, comes home at night on a train, shep meets him and takes him home the long way.Next day mom tell him a flood washed the out and shep saved him from drowing but old shep been dead 2 weeks.If anyone has these lyrics pleas post.


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Willie-O
Date: 05 Mar 00 - 09:31 AM

Oh! That's why Steve Goodman made that comment about the perfect country song needing trains, prison, mom, and dead dogs like old Shep.

I was that kid with his tongue stuck--welded, in fact-- to a metal fencepost in the schoolyard. (Amazing the whimsical things your brain can convince you to do without sufficient consideration.) Matter of fact I re-enacted the scene awhile ago when I was out for a walk in the old neighbourhood with number one offspring. I have no recollection of how I got unstuck from the post--I suppose pouring hot water would do it, but I don't think that was it.

Another thing my brain talked me into trying, when I was old enough to know better, was a physics experiment to prove or disprove that well-known principle about riding a bicycle: that if you apply only the front brakes, while going down a hill at a good clip, you will go arse over teakettle rear wheel over front.

I"d had quite a bit to drink)

I'm hear to tell you, it's true. Luck for me it wasn't much of a hill--doesn't take much of one to achieve the effect, as it turned out.

Older, no wiser
Willie-O


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 05 Mar 00 - 11:32 AM

The once and future "King of awful songs": Waltzing with Bea.......arghhhh! Please forgive me folks.

Rick


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Art Thieme
Date: 05 Mar 00 - 12:18 PM

AMAZING GRACE----I, personally, was NEVER, and am not now, "a wretch". I've had personal insights that have helped me change my ways on occasion, but I've never been a terrible guy I don't think. Always have had a hard time singing along with this one. The religion of it don't grab me either.

Art Thieme


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Amos
Date: 05 Mar 00 - 01:15 PM

Art:

You're NOT??? Never been a card carrying member of the Profound Self-Abnegation International?

Not a student of Personal Techniques in Self-Nullification, nor yet a member of the Church of Perpetual Denigration?

Oh, for shame! For Guilt! For blame! For.... (urrrrp)...Self-denying propitiation!.

Are you really sure you're not a wretch?

LOL!

A


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Troll
Date: 05 Mar 00 - 01:25 PM

Amos: I AM! Sure am and, let me say, proud to be one!yessiree! I'm not a professional mind you, but I've managed to keep my old van running for...oh. You said WRETCH. I thought you said WRENCH as in mechanic. Sorry. Really,truly,sorry. How could I have done such a stupid thing, made such a dumb mistake. I'm always doing things like that and....oh damn.

troll *evil chuckle*


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: BlueJay
Date: 05 Mar 00 - 02:57 PM

Joe Offer If You See THis: You must have the same Steve Goodman CD I have, "No Big Surprise". You're right, I've played the ""Dead Girl" set to many friends, with the predictable, hilarious results. Funny how it started as a request for a COWBOY HAT, so he could sing "You Never Even Called Me By My Name", and since noone had a hat, someone gave him a motorcycle helmet, which led to ""Born To Be Wild", and thence, the dead girl songs. I saw Steve Goodman at Red Rocks Amphitheatre, about thirty feet away), a few years before he died. He made the same request for a cowboy hat, and someone threw him one that was probably five sizes too large, covering his eyes, and down past his ears. The he did the song "You Never..."I've considered petitioning the Legislature of the State of Illinois to rename the state, "The Land of Goodman", instead of the "Land of Lincoln". Do you think any Mudcatters would sign?


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: BlueJay
Date: 05 Mar 00 - 03:16 PM

By the way, for me the worst has to be "yummy yummy yummy ive got love in my tummy", (typos intentional).


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Art Thieme
Date: 05 Mar 00 - 09:01 PM

City of Chicago has been giving established streets "honorary names" recently. It's really confusing to people not used to driving around the town. Some folks have gotten lost and wound up in dire trouble. One guy has never been seen since he went looking for a certain address on one of these streets with 2 names.

BUT Lincoln Avenue, up on "da nort-west" side o' da town, has been ALSO named for STEVE GOODMAN. A new sign is along side the old one up where the new Old Town School Of FOLK MUSIC is located. (I've capitalized the words FOLK MUSIC bacause that venerable institution has gone far out of it's way to denegrate and diminish the words in it's new logo and stationary.)

Art Thieme


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: GUEST,The Beanster
Date: 05 Mar 00 - 09:39 PM

Papa, Don't Preach, Madonna (the thought of offspring from this woman makes my hair stand on end)

Send In The Clowns, People, Evergreen, ETC., B. Streisand (makes me wretch)

Seasons In The Sun, Terry Jacks (this man should be boiled alive)

These are my Top 3. Gee, that was fun! lol


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: GUEST,Frank Hamilton
Date: 05 Mar 00 - 09:42 PM

Jon W.

It's an interesting footnote. Honah Lea is an early jazz expression meaning getting high (probably on poppy smoke).

Frank


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 05 Mar 00 - 10:39 PM

The worst song that The Everly Bros ever did was called Ebony Eyes. It was one of those "my girlfriend died" songs that was popular in the late 50's early 60's. Had memorable lines like
"My ebony eyes was coming to me
From out of the skies on Flight 1203"
. Anyway, he's waiting in the Terminal and the Flight's late, there's a ball of flame and it ends something like; the terrible sky
"had taken my life's most wonderful prize
My beautiful ebony eyes."
My cousin used to weep uncontrollably.


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: GUEST,The Beanster
Date: 05 Mar 00 - 11:53 PM

Ooooh I remember another one..."Please, Don't Just Stand There" by Patti Duke. Truly an abomination. And Lonesome EJ, you cracked me up!


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Troll
Date: 06 Mar 00 - 12:01 AM

How about "Patches" "Down by the river that flows through the coalyard...."

Bleeech!!!

troll


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 06 Mar 00 - 12:10 AM

Yeah Troll."Patches, my darling, of old shanty town."

And the one where the woman is waiting for her boyfriend to call her.

Let it please be him, Oh Dear God
It must be him, but it's not him
And then I die
and then I die


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: GUEST,The Beanster
Date: 06 Mar 00 - 12:10 AM

OHHHHHH PATCHES! YUK! LMAO


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Troll
Date: 06 Mar 00 - 12:14 AM

And remember "Teen Angel"? "They say they found my high school ring clutched in your fingers tight." Ring my foot! She probably went back to get her panties!

troll


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 06 Mar 00 - 12:24 AM

Just sweet sixteen and now you're gone
They've taken you away
I'll never kiss your lips again
They buried you today


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Troll
Date: 06 Mar 00 - 12:30 AM

'Sigh' They just don't write 'em like that anymore. Nowadays they either OD or get knocked off in a drive-by.

troll


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Metchosin
Date: 06 Mar 00 - 01:35 AM

Or "Honey" by Bobby Goldsboro?


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Lin in Kansas
Date: 06 Mar 00 - 04:44 PM

My vote goes to "Wreck on the Highway" (cough, choke)

or how about "Carroll County Accident"? (retch...)

or "Teddy Bear", to keep to my country theme? (hack, gurgle, hack)

or the one about the little girl in the wheelchair who goes to get her daddy out of the tavern and winds up dead (can't remember the title, thank the gods), a whole nother permutation of the "dead girls" songs. (pardon me while I go regurgitate)

Lin


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: pastorpest
Date: 06 Mar 00 - 05:22 PM

How quickly we have recovered from Christmas! Please spare me from another crooner drooling through White Christmas and scores of other carols. I hope I never see a Christmas disc by Celine Dion! Spare me also from opera sings with powerful and agile voices doing Christmas carols (folk songs) like they were opera arias with a whole orchestra to back them up on a complex arrangement. They remind me of the game we played as teens of how many people can we stuff in a VW bug. The folk song is the car trying hold it all.


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Mar 00 - 07:45 PM

Hell, but there's a lot of sour-faced cynics around in this thread!

I like songs that go over the top. I don't like songs that are insincere about sad things, and calculating.But there's nothing wrong with songs that go,over the top.

But a lot the songs people have been slagging off here are good straight sincere emotional songs that sometimes get sung by insincere calculating singers. They don't need scorning, they need rescuing.

And I detest the idea that fashion has anything to do with the merits of a song.


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 06 Mar 00 - 10:56 PM

OK McGrath. Prove all of us sour-faced cynics wrong by being the first performer to do justice to that moving, over-the-top ballad "Patches."


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Troll
Date: 06 Mar 00 - 11:03 PM

Damnitall EJ! Ya beat me to it.

McGrath, go for it!

troll


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: GUEST,Dan Keding
Date: 06 Mar 00 - 11:36 PM

Any song by George W.Bush and that horrible "Honey" tune. Dan


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Metchosin
Date: 06 Mar 00 - 11:51 PM

McGrath, I "double dog dare you" to sing the following lines sincerely. Then again , maybe for some, it is possible.

She wrecked the car and she was sad
And so afraid that I'd be mad, but what the heck.
Though I pretended hard to be,
Guess you could say, she saw through me and hugged my neck


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: rangeroger
Date: 06 Mar 00 - 11:54 PM

"House on Pooh Corner"
rr


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Amos
Date: 07 Mar 00 - 01:33 AM

Que Sera, Sera and about 250 songs around its time on the pre-Elvis Hit Parade. Swear to god, popular music just before the advent of Rock and Roll -- outside of Country -- was the most saccharine, synthetic, Muzak-wannabe collection of falsely sweet drivel... Pat Boone, Love Letters in the Sand, Connie Francis, Love Forever True,Hot Diggety Dog Diggety, This Old House, even early sorta rock tunes like "Green Door" and "Hernando's Hideaway" were so much pseudo-dreck, to my mind. Not to step on any toes or anything.


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Lin in Kansas
Date: 07 Mar 00 - 02:24 AM

'Course not, Amos--you were your usual tactful self...

but that's my era, honey, and I kinda like Hot Diggety (Oh, what you do to me!) and This Old House. Most of the music then was meant to dance to, American Bandstand style, and wasn't intended by any means to be profound--but I wouldn't call the ones you listed saccharine, either.

Well, maybe "Love Letters" would qualify. But when that's the song you get your first kiss to, it do change your perspective on the music! (We were a lot more innocent then than teenyboppers are now...)

Lin


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Metchosin
Date: 07 Mar 00 - 02:41 AM

Amos, you forgot Tammy, but I do take exception to the inclusion of "This Old House". I grew up in a family that raised and hunted with cougar and 'coon hounds, so the song was very meaningful to me, when I was young.


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Homeless
Date: 07 Mar 00 - 07:33 AM

"Love Letters" was one of the first songs I learned when learning to play the organ. I rather like it, but I didn't know it had any words.


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Mooh
Date: 07 Mar 00 - 08:47 AM

I once quit a band over "Colour My World" or whatever that Chicago song was called. I didn't care how popular it was at the time, I just couldn't take it. I still have to do songs I don't care for but nothing that lousy. Sorry Chicago fans.


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Amos
Date: 07 Mar 00 - 08:53 AM

On a day like today
We'd pass the time away
Writing looooove leeeetterrrs
In the Sand.
How you laughed, when I cried
Each time we saw the tide
Take our loooove leeeters
from the sand...etc., etc..

Actua;;y, Homeless, I'll stop for fear of ruining a perfectly pleasant melody in your head.

Metchosing I understand the affection for This Old House -- I gre up in an old house myself, a sprawling colonia with parts predating the Revolution, and i loved it. But musically, I am sorry to say, it's in the Patti Page category. Well, ok, not quite...I won't argue about individual tunes. That postwar era, in a kind of massive post trauma syndrome of gleeful propriety and insincerity, was (for me, mind you) just so rich with saccharinity as to earmark the whole period as the Age of Saccharine. A mish mash of pseudo-victorian morals and hypocritical practices and smarmy public art modeled on the plastic flamingo... A land where the acquisition of Lawn Dwarfs was the pinnacle of social and financial success in many places....yuk. Don't me -- I'm just reliving my Gregory Corso period...


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Callie
Date: 07 Mar 00 - 08:55 AM

Lay off Walzing With Bears or I'll set Uncle Walter onto you.

If you want real Barf-a-rama, try these:

Anything by Phil Collins

The Rose (Spewwwww!)

The Ski Instructors' Daughter (where she loses her legs and the ghost of the ski instructor still roams the ski slopes looking for his daughter's legs)

The Australian national anthem which starts off "Australians all let us rejoice for we are young and free". They have to distribute airplane sick bags whenever the anthem is sung.

Anne Murray singing "You Needed Me"

Bryan Adams singing "Have you ever really loved a woman" (Barrrrf!)

That awful song "I've been to paradise but I've never been to me"

I have to go and take a laxative now.

--Callie


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Mar 00 - 09:09 PM

Just checked with the DT - "Patches" looked fair enough, given the right tune. I've never heard it so I couldn't say. Break out the autoharp and a few Carter Family harmonies and there's nothing in the words you couldn't live with.

I'm not saying there aren't any lousy songs, just that being extra sweet or extra sad aren't in themselves ground for saying a song is lousy. And there's a fair number of pretty good songs in here.

And did I see someone being disparaging about the House at Pooh Corner? That's fighting talk...


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Metchosin
Date: 07 Mar 00 - 09:47 PM

Amos, the Rosemary Cluney version of This Old House would explain your dislike for it. We had it on a record by someone called Stuart Hamblin? or something like that, which just goes to demonstate Mcgrath's point, that it sometimes depends on the singer.

You are right, of course, about the Age of Saccharine. Thinking back to that time still makes my skin crawl, but the Victorians had the corner on the market until then, particularly their songs about fallen women and fathers who wouldn't come out of the pub.

The good thing about it was that it drove me and I'm sure others to Country and Western and folk music. Some of the 50's C&W was pretty saccharine too, but most of the singers got away with it, because of the honesty of their songs.


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Whistle Stop
Date: 08 Mar 00 - 02:41 PM

Obviously, there are plenty of saccharine songs out there that I would be happy to never hear again. But taking potshots at Barry Manilow and Bobby Goldsboro is too easy (and Judy Collins, and Karen Carpenter, and...). I absolutely love Bob Dylan, but does anyone else agree with me that we've all heard enough of "Blowin' In The Wind"?


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Troll
Date: 08 Mar 00 - 03:13 PM

Of course it's too easy. Thats the whole point. Any song idea can be done to death and badly.And a lot of the songs listed were and are. "Blowin'In The Wind" still speaks to a lot of people.To others it doesn't. There were singers and songwriters like Manilow and Goldsboro who seem to have made their whole career writing and singing really sappy material and so they have become natural targets.Theres little or no malice involved. It's just venting.

troll


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 08 Mar 00 - 03:33 PM

Venting is best done outdoors I always feel.


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Wesley S
Date: 08 Mar 00 - 03:53 PM

Here are my 3 votes:

Me and You and a Dog Named Boo - by Lobo

Funny Face - by Donna Fargo

I Honestly Love You - by Olivia Newton John.

I'd rather listen to nails on a blackboard. How ANYONE could listen to that song and not retch is beyond me.


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Whistle Stop
Date: 09 Mar 00 - 08:21 AM

Couldn't agree more about "I Honestly Love You". In the same vein, and from the same decade, there's "Sometimes When We Touch," by somebody or other -- don't remember who, don't want to.


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: Steve Latimer
Date: 09 Mar 00 - 01:25 PM

I Honestly Love You, I'd purged that one form the memory banks. How horrible was that.

Dan Hill did Sometimes when we touch. He did some others that were as sappy and sounded exactly the same.

How about 'Shannon' by Henry Gross, you know about the dog who's drifting out to sea...

How about "Guess I'll have to stay with you awhile"? ...how she makes me quiver, how she makes me smile, with all this love I have to give her, I guess I'm gonna stay with her awhile" Yecch


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Subject: RE: Saccarine Overload
From: GUEST,Patsy Warren
Date: 21 Jul 10 - 06:21 AM

Sad thing is though there is someone out there who genuinely likes and has bourght all of this stuff, I wonder if they would admit it....I suspect not!


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