Opinionated Civil War Music Article

Subject: RE: BS: Opinionated Civil War Music Article
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Mar 01 - 06:08 PM

Kat, you are correct in criticizing my negative attitude and apologize for jumping to conclusions about an individual I know nothing about. I focused in on what I perceived as a very selfish act, and drew conclusions beyond the scope of reasonableness. This has been a string of one negative attitude (the original article noted above), fallowed by counter negative attitudes (unreasonable "hardcore") and so forth. I humbly confess my embarrassment at having slung the mud around.

In the interest of correcting past wrongs, I would like to retract my negative comments, wipe the slate clean, and start anew. Focusing instead on what I perceive as the core issue, what is reasonable for a Civil War impression.

Let me start by giving you some background as to my involvement in Civil War re-enacting. As stated previously, I'm am not, nor ever have been, a Civil War re-enactor. My wife and I have on the other hand enjoyed a number of Civil War events as members of the general viewing public. We attended the 125th anniversary of Antietam, more by accident that anything else, but enjoyed it so much that we have subsequently been to see the 135th anniversary of Gettysburg, and the battle of Cedar Creek. While a grand scale pickets charge is very impressive, the greatest joy is walking through the authentic camps and talking to the soldiers. It is very fascinating to see, hear and learn about the life of the typical common soldier, the "grunts," during this period of time. Criticism of the "hardcore" may be warranted in some cases, but it is the hard work of these guys (and gals) that give the public the greatest understand of American life during this defining period of our American culture. We attended an event at Fort McHenry last year were five members of a Calvary outfit came all the way from Ohio to give a public demonstration. The size of their group did not compare to those of Gettysburg, but it was the most informative presentations I've seen to date.

Now to the issue of reasonable Civil War impressions. I obviously can not speak for the general public as a whole, but I hope that you will at least take into consideration the thoughts of this one member of the public. I also acknowledge that the specific incident that I referred to in the previous post was conducted at night away from the general public, and my response reflects an empathy for the feelings of other re-enactors. As correctly stated in previous posts, it is impossible and unreasonable to portray a completely authentic civil war character. Many exceptions have to be accepted such as physical limitations like age and physical condition, as well as issues of hygiene, etc. In addition to these issues, there are also the practical issues of money and time limitations. It must also be accepted that a newbie will not start off with the same level of authenticity of as a 10 year vet, however some minimum levels must met. As I think you would agree, showing up in gray or blue trousers from Sears is not sufficient for even a newbie. Obviously, anyone who is willing to spend a thousand dollars on their gear has more than a casual an interest in this hobby. But what I thinks separates the "Farbs" from the rests is whether you let history guide your choices, or do you try to adjust history to suite your personal preferences. True, dulcimers did exist during this time period, but were they typical of the ordinary soldier? Are you letting history guide your choices of musical instruments, or are you adjusting history to suite your preferences? Also to what extent should consideration of others guide ones judgement? A banjo is typical, a dulcimer is not.

Having said all this, I would appreciate it if you would let me know if this is reasonable to you or not?

Sincerely yours

Subject: RE: BS: Opinionated Civil War Music Article
From: GUEST,D.A.
Date: 13 Mar 01 - 05:29 PM

The public doesn't know the difference.

For Sure. Ya know what else? They don't give a shit, either!
They come to watch TV, not learn . Anything they just happen to pick up by accident they've forgot before they get half way home. Get a grip, hey? Want to play dress-up, go ahead, but don't pretend its something it isn't.

Subject: RE: BS: Opinionated Civil War Music Article
From: JedMarum
Date: 13 Mar 01 - 05:19 PM

... and Les - which track did you hear, do you remember? Obviously you have a fine radio station out there, with excellent taste!

;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Opinionated Civil War Music Article
From: JedMarum
Date: 13 Mar 01 - 05:15 PM

I gather thet CW soldiers on the move would not bother carrying any instrument. And I buy the arguement that the dulcimer was not popular, and probably too heavy and bulky to bother with. It also makes sense that once soldiers were encamped for a while that locals would lend or rent instruments out. I'd have had a hard time without an instrument - guess that's where a harmonica or penny whistle would com in handy.

Subject: RE: BS: Opinionated Civil War Music Article
From: Kim C
Date: 13 Mar 01 - 05:01 PM

Neil - while I have never seen anything other than a hand-stitched buttonhole on an original garment, I have been told by sewing machine experts that one of the manufacturers had a patent on a machine buttonholer as early as 1862. Who was actually able to get aholt of such a critter is unknown to me. I am one of those sick individuals who actually likes handsewing buttonholes! :-) Hey, a well-made buttonhole is a thing of beauty.

Subject: RE: BS: Opinionated Civil War Music Article
From: katlaughing
Date: 13 Mar 01 - 04:55 PM

BDP, thank you for answering me. GUEST flamed, imo, when s/he accused Banjer of "if you're just interest making a lot of noice shotting guns off and in partying with your friends." That makes it seem quite evident that guest/anon knows nothing about Banjer and should not be encourage by responses, IMO.

I have absolutely nothing against banjos...in fact you can see a picture of my dad playing his on my photoloft page listed in the Mudcatters photo threads in the Permathreads.

Subject: RE: BS: Opinionated Civil War Music Article
From: Irish sergeant
Date: 13 Mar 01 - 04:46 PM

Les B: A "Farb" is someone deemed not to be "Authentic' in their presentation at a Civil War re-enactment. It is a term most likely bandied about by self-styled "authentic" re-enactors. It is considered an offensive term. Having said that, I have seen documentation of sutlers during the Civil War who specialized in renting instruments such as guitars to soldiers while they were in camp or garrison for extended times. The problem is that many of these so called authentics use authenticity as a power play. As a re-enactor, i got into it for the comradeship and the love of history. By the same token, I'm not going to get dysentery or smell like three day old pole cat. i don't want real minie flying my way. Troll; I don't know what events you've done but you can park it at my campfire anytime (12th US Co. A, USV) Yes, I sleep in an A-tent but I have done the bedroll thing. Yes I carry a Yamaha classical guitar. The case and tuner stay in my tent under a gray wool blanket. Keep in mind that the soldiers in this country haven't changed a lot in 140 years. They would have killed to sleep in a barn so the tent thing is a bit of a non-issue. You don't like my impression? Offer constructive advice. If you can't do that, leave me be. I don't need a ration of bovine effluvia from anyone when I'm out to relax. This is after all a hobby. If you want to jaw, stop by. I haven't turned anyone away from my fire yet or failed to offer them a cup of coffee. I try to play period music when I'm there. I include "I'm a Good Old Rebel" and "Tom Dooley" even though they are not strictly Civil War songs. Both were written shortly after the war but I want to include a well balanced repertoire that gives an idea of the conflicting emotion that the war caused. I'd love to play an authentic instrument but many of us just don't have that kind of money. In closing, I don't have anything against campaign style reenactors (Authentics although i understand the new term is progressive) I do have a big jones about people who deem it their right under the guise of authenticity to walk all over everyone they deem farbs. Kindest reguards to all, Neil There is debate as to whether or not uniforms had hand sewn button holes.

Subject: RE: BS: Opinionated Civil War Music Article
From: Kim C
Date: 13 Mar 01 - 04:45 PM

A farb is someone who doesn't care if they're authentic or not. You might often see such a person wearing modern cowboy boots and cowboy hat with their poorly-made uniform.

As far as guitars in camp... well, it depends on the camp. If you're talking about soldiers on the move, probably not. If you're talking about a garrison camp, maybe so. Garrison camps often had civilian visitors so in that situation you might find things you wouldn't find in a campaign camp.

If you're talking about a civilian refugee camp... depending on economic status, some people fled their homes with every darn thing that would go in the wagon. Others had no more than the clothes they were wearing. So there are a lot of variables to consider.

Subject: RE: BS: Opinionated Civil War Music Article
From: GUEST,Les B
Date: 13 Mar 01 - 03:50 PM

OK, I'll ask. What is a "farb" ?? It's not a term I recognize from the Fur Trade Rendezvous camps I've been going to for a decade.

Subject: RE: BS: Opinionated Civil War Music Article
From: GUEST,Blind Desert Pete
Date: 13 Mar 01 - 03:41 PM

Kat: Sorry, not a flame. I did not think Guests comments were a flame either. nope not me. But back to topic-- Yure darn tootin its an opinionated article. that what authors do. I have to agree with most of his points concerning amps, innapropriat styles, bluegrass,etc BUT I play a steel string banjo so guess where my ox is gored?

Subject: RE: BS: Opinionated Civil War Music Article
From: katlaughing
Date: 13 Mar 01 - 03:14 PM

BDP, I am still here. I just refuse to answer an anonymous someone who was obviously flaming one of our esteemed regulars. Was it you? If so, I would encourage you to join up, so that you don't have to remember to type in your name all of the time.

Subject: RE: BS: Opinionated Civil War Music Article
From: GUEST,LynnT
Date: 13 Mar 01 - 02:59 PM

I've been doing living history for some twenty-odd years now, mostly SCA, but other groups too (my first big event was Pennsic 5; for context, last summer was #29 or so).

When I started out, I just wanted to have fun hanging out with my friends in fancy clothes -- and didn't care as much for accuracy as for color and interesting cut. I wince now at the photos of me at old SCA events wearing mismatched Victoriana. I was happy to sing along on any tune that came around the firecircle, made no distinction between "Barrett's Privateers", "The Witch of the Westmerelands" or "Matty Groves" -- though even then I loved a good madrigal -- and was not concerned as to whether my (improvised) accompaniment was consistent with the style or time of the piece. But over time I began to appreciate the details that made a thoroughly-medieval camp set in a consistent period hang together: the tools, the tents, the clothing, the lighting sources, the food (storage, preparation and consumption), and yes, the music. And the conversations. Really blows things to have folks in a quality 13th-century setting talking about computers or car repair. It all builds, and it's all pretty fragile.

These days, for myself, if I know how to do it "right", I'll need a real good reason for doing it another way; for others, I appreciate the tolerance others extended to me when I was starting out (with my sometimes-defiant attitude then towards the "authenticity Nazi" I've now myself become) and try real hard not to spoil others' fun. For me, the fun is in figuring out "how they did it" -- then achieving recognizably similar results, whether it's costumery, cookery, or music. I prefer period works, but will take modern stuff done in a period mode...

LynnT

Subject: RE: BS: Opinionated Civil War Music Article
From: GUEST,Blind Desert Pete
Date: 13 Mar 01 - 02:17 PM

Way to go Kat. Stick the knife in, giv it a twist, and then run away. Fits your style.

Subject: RE: BS: Opinionated Civil War Music Article
From: Rex
Date: 13 Mar 01 - 02:10 PM

Well durn it, I left something out. Folks can say they arn't functioning as an interpreter. They are just having fun so what's wrong with that? The public doesn't know the difference. Then they go back home thinking that "Ashcan Farewell" is really a tune from the mid 1850's. As much as I love it and enjoy playing it, we know it ain't so. Now I'll hush.

Rex

Subject: RE: BS: Opinionated Civil War Music Article
From: Rex
Date: 13 Mar 01 - 02:03 PM

I'm compelled to come to our Guest's defense. But you will find that you are better received here if you give us name to know you by. My greatest concern for an interpreter demonstrating living history is spreading misinformation. So I try to be careful about what I put out there. It is true there were dulcimers at the time of the War Between the States (or whatever you choose to call it). There were guitars too. So far I haven't seen anything to suggest they were likely to be in a camp. It could be argued that they existed at the time and within that part of the country so it is possible they would be found in such a camp. This argument comes up often in the Fur Trade events. It existed at the time so lets use it. I guess I prefer to play it safe. That will leave out some interesting possibilities and narrow what I can present but that's what I will do. I'll get off my soapbox now and hush.

Rex

Subject: RE: BS: Opinionated Civil War Music Article
From: Kim C
Date: 13 Mar 01 - 01:51 PM

It's my understanding that while the mountain dulcimer existed, it was largely unknown outside Appalachia until after the Civil War. However the hammered dulcimer was a popular parlor instrument. At least that's what I've read.

A small mountain dulcimer would not be any more bulky to carry than a fiddle and there is documentation for soldiers having those. Banjer, if your grandpappy was from the mountains of Kentucky, you may well have been familiar with the mountain dulcimer. :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Opinionated Civil War Music Article
From: GUEST,Les B.
Date: 13 Mar 01 - 01:25 PM

Jed - mountain or lap dulcimers were around at that time.

A few years ago I met a musician who proudly showed me a dulcimer built by his great grandfather, who had been in the Civil War and lost an arm. So I've seen on-the-ground proof that dulcimers existed c. 1865.

His dulcimer was quite large, heavy and a bit crude in comparison to today's, but hey, it was built by a one-armed carpenter!

What was interesting was the case, which had been designed to be turned upside down and set on a table, so the dulcimer could be placed on it when playing. It was sort of an acoustic amplifier system.

Jed - by the by, I heard a cut from your CD played on the folk show of our regional Public Radio station in Bozeman. Sounded great !

Subject: RE: BS: Opinionated Civil War Music Article
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Mar 01 - 01:15 PM

Kat, Please explain what is wrong with playing the banjo?

Subject: RE: BS: Opinionated Civil War Music Article
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Mar 01 - 01:08 PM

Jed, A soldiers belongs traveled on his back. A dulcimer is too big and heavy to be marching with.

Subject: RE: BS: Opinionated Civil War Music Article
From: katlaughing
Date: 13 Mar 01 - 01:03 PM

Your ignorance is showing, along with blatant trolling. I, for one, will not respond to this "guest", again.

Subject: RE: BS: Opinionated Civil War Music Article
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Mar 01 - 01:00 PM

The dulcimer existed, but was not in popular use during the period of the Civil. And most importantly, was too bulky for an infantry soldier to be carring in his back-pack. Think about it. Considering that banjer, is a capable banjo player, what is wrong with simply sticking to an instrument that WAS in popular use at that time? What is wrong with simply choosing the instrument that best fits? And leaving the one that is out of place at home. Seems pretty simple to me.

Banjer, says he is just interested in having fun, but why invest all that money in the civil war stuff if you're just interest making a lot of noice shotting guns off and in partying with your friends? Why didn't you and your friends just buy some boyscott uniforms, firecrackers and party in your backyard instead? I assume you must have some interest in history. Besided, this is not just about you and your party friends, but about courtesy to all the other camps near you. I don't see how leaving the dulmer at home, but bringing the banjo with you would be that great of an inconvenience? Is this really such a great inconvience to you, that you would prefer to inconvience everyone else?

Subject: RE: BS: Opinionated Civil War Music Article
From: katlaughing
Date: 13 Mar 01 - 12:48 PM

According to Jean Ritchie's "The Dulcimer Book" they had been around, in her family, as far back as her dad and granddad could remember, which, I am sure, would predate the Civil War.

GUEST, you really ought to do some homework and read up on our Banjer and what he contributes, here and in the 3D world, before you start slinging arrows. It's pretty hard to find many others who command the respect he does.

kat

Subject: RE: BS: Opinionated Civil War Music Article
From: kimmers
Date: 13 Mar 01 - 12:47 PM

Personally, when it comes to music at events, I'd rather hear the musicians play on the instruments that they are familiar with. I'd rather hear a good guitarist (or dulcimer-ist!) than a bad banjo player.

Guest, you do indeed sound like a reenactor, and a hardcore one at that. A soldier reenactor can not only choose from some pretty fantastic suppliers for his gear, he can even make some of the gear if he is so inclined to perfection that he must have hand-sewn buttonholes. I think it's a little harder for the musicians. Period-style instruments are available, for a price, but can be difficult to find (and play, and keep in tune).

Hey, you guys can come play the dulcimer in my camp anytime! Any West Coast reenactors (or folks who play at reenactments) here?

Kim Heggen

Subject: RE: BS: Opinionated Civil War Music Article
From: Bert
Date: 13 Mar 01 - 12:41 PM

Dressing up is fun and not to be taken too seriously. If you're shooting for a certain period then you do some research and get things as close as you can. You modify modern items so that they look the part. But you musty always bear in mind that none of this is REAL. It's all pretend and sure, it's fun to look the part if you can, but no one is ever going to be 'correct' it just can't be done.

Battle reenactors of any period will never, ever get the scale right. They will ALWAYS look silly with a few dozen people running around trying to pretend that they are an army of thousands. So if you have to compromise on such an important issue which everyone can see is plainly ridiculous, it makes little sense to get upset over some trivialities that most people would miss anyway.

The object of the exercise is to learn about the period in a fun environment. Positive comments will make it more fun. It's much better to research and publish the 'real' information so that people will be able to learn and join in, than it is to criticize those who get some details wrong.

So if you see something that is out of place, you say 'Hey didja know, this is how they used to do it' not 'You got it wrong'

Bert.

Subject: RE: BS: Opinionated Civil War Music Article
From: JedMarum
Date: 13 Mar 01 - 12:30 PM

well, I think I've gone off and answered my own question. I found a brief history at Black Mountain Instruments website that says,

"The Appalachian Dulcimer (or Mountain Dulcimer) dates back to the early 1800s. It was developed from similarly designd Medival European instruments, in the zither family. The dulcimer first appeard in Southern Appalachian Mountains, thus the reference "mountain" dulcimer. Today the dulcimer has become one of the most recognizable and popular folk instruments in the United States."

So it seems likely that Civil War soldiers from either side might well have brought along a dulcimer or two. Am I right?

Subject: RE: BS: Opinionated Civil War Music Article
From: JedMarum
Date: 13 Mar 01 - 12:19 PM

Guest - are you saying the dulcimer wasn't in use in 1860? I am not challening your comment, just looking for validation. I had long assumed the dulcimer was around for a very long time, and would have expected to see it in use during the CW era.

Subject: RE: BS: Opinionated Civil War Music Article
From: Kim C
Date: 13 Mar 01 - 09:35 AM

Guest, you must be a reenactor or you probably wouldn't know the word "farb."

Subject: RE: BS: Opinionated Civil War Music Article
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Mar 01 - 08:34 PM

Banjer, I'm not a reenactor, but I think I would be pretty pissed if I invested a thousand dollars in authentic gear and countless hours perfect a civil war image right down to the camping and eating utensils, only to have a farb like yourself drag a dulcimer into camp because you think it's "cool". Have a little respect for the guys (and gals) who take this seriously and just leave the silly dulcimer at home. The banjo on the hand, fits in perfectly, and would really add to the enjoyment of other. Just show a little courtesy to the whole organization please.

Subject: RE: BS: Opinionated Civil War Music Article
From: artbrooks
Date: 12 Mar 01 - 08:34 PM

I'm not a Civil War reenactor, but I do enjoy Ren Faires...and there is probably very little that's truly "authentic" about them. A character in one of Mercedes Lackey's fantasy novels refers to folks who think that slavish adherence to historical accuracy is more important than having fun as "authenticity Nazies". Did somebody mention gas gangrene and amputation without benefit of anesthesia or even clean hands? Do you really want to stand around in the hot sun in a heavy wool uniform? Don't forget to add a louse or two.

Subject: RE: BS: Opinionated Civil War Music Article
From: Hollowfox
Date: 12 Mar 01 - 06:38 PM

Sounds like Mr Isaacson got up on the wrong side of the cage that day.*g* That being said, I think it depends on the intended audience, and who is choosing who the intended audience is. Last August I attended a series of workshops at a large Society for Creative Anachronism event. The workshops were on juggling, street performing, stage illusion-type magic, and such related things as they elated to medieval reenactment. They were taught by people who make their living this way (there's not a harder job on earth than being a professional fool), they treat their profession with respect, and they do their academic homework. When the authenticity question came up in the stage magic class, the teacher pointed out that, from what little documentation there is, the magicial chanted for perhaps up to half an hour, and then the illusion was performed. A modern audience would be bored, and losing the audience is not the point of performing. And even if they're dressed in the most authentic reenactment clothes in the world, they're still a modern audience. Then we went on to learn how to modify equipment so it wouldn't clash with the setting (eliminate plastic, etc). The point for musicians is, I guess, that the organizers of the event should decide just how authentic things *have* to be. The musicians should have done their acadmic homework regarding whether the piece is proper for the time period, since the onlookers might ask and learn something. If the intended audience is to be only academics, experts on the time period, than make the music as authentically academic as possible. If the audience is to be those folks who bought an admission to be entertained, then the parameters of repertoire and performance are different.

Subject: RE: BS: Opinionated Civil War Music Article
From: Kim C
Date: 12 Mar 01 - 05:52 PM

All right Banjer, but don't get any bright idears about playing the Beverly Hillbillies theme in my camp! ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Opinionated Civil War Music Article
From: JedMarum
Date: 12 Mar 01 - 02:46 PM

Good thoughts, Banjer!

We played the Cleburn Memorial event over the weekend, that included some good Celtic, Cowboy and Civil War era music - some re-enactor events/displays - some antique cars show events - several Scottish clan displays - and a demonstartion of new and antique farm tratcors. It was a cold, windy day, but they got a pretty good crowd there, and everyone had a great day.

Ther had been a bit of bitching, apparently, in a local paper about anybody celebrating anything to do with a Confederate General, even if the town was named after him - and the fact that a confederate battle flag or two might be displayed - but in truth, there were no white supremicists there, no neo nazi, just people interested in celebrating their history and enjoying the day. I didn't see any Yankee re-enactors, but all of the town's ethnic groups appeared to be represented in those people attending.

Subject: RE: BS: Opinionated Civil War Music Article
From: Banjer
Date: 09 Mar 01 - 07:49 PM

The reenacting unit which I lead is not politicaly oriented, as some units are. We do not hold monthly meetings, we due not collect dues, and we do not have any elected leaders. I am the leader, I call the shots as far as safety and decorum in my camp go, but beyond that...We are all out to enjoy ourselves. If it means we play a song that wasn't written until the 1880's, what of it? We can tell any one who listens about the song and explain it was not quite period. We enjoy what we do, we enjoy each other's company, and for the brief weekend we have together we try to help our visitors enjoy themselves. Let us not ruin a wonderful hobby with overbearing politics, power struggles and other such nonsense!

Subject: RE: BS: Opinionated Civil War Music Article
From: Dave Wynn
Date: 09 Mar 01 - 06:01 PM

I am completely ignorant of re-enactments and can only imagine them. But I found the article very interesting and informative. Just a little abrasive in tone.

Jed Marum wrapped it up nicely. Just what I thought but far more erudite than I could put it.

Still enjoyed reading it though!

Spot

Subject: RE: BS: Opinionated Civil War Music Article
From: kimmers
Date: 09 Mar 01 - 02:23 PM

I think that authenticity is important mainly as a means to add to the total enjoyment of the reenacting experience. Cooking period foods and wearing period clothes gives me that enjoyment, as does participating in period entertainments. For my husband, using authentic gear and trying to experience the soldier's life is what floats his boat.

The hard-core folks seem to take a perverse joy in their extensive "knowledge" of the details, and even more joy in cutting down the participants who don't measure up. This is too often counterproductive sneering.

Music should be part of the middle ground. We should do the best we can reasonably can, especially if we are both musicians and reenactors. I don't play the banjo, so I'm not about to run out and learn it just so I can plunk a few notes around the campfire. No time for that! I do intend to find a parlor guitar and string it with mostly nylon, not gut. But my experience around here is that folks are grateful for any reasonably competent music to add some atmosphere and to make dancing possible. Wish I could learn to fiddle!

Subject: RE: BS: Opinionated Civil War Music Article
From: katlaughing
Date: 09 Mar 01 - 01:57 PM

Just linking to other harmonica threads:

Civil War Harmonicas

Harmonicas for the Homeless

Subject: RE: BS: Opinionated Civil War Music Article
From: Kim C
Date: 09 Mar 01 - 01:56 PM

Oh, no, Jed, I ain't goin to be responsible for startin anything! :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Opinionated Civil War Music Article
From: GUEST,Les B
Date: 09 Mar 01 - 01:33 PM

I ran across the above article about six months ago and accepted it as just another "authenticity" paen (or pain ??). A similar, much longer, more informative and less sarcastically toned piece appeared in one of the "Buckskinner" journals a number of years ago.

I second Kim C's inclusion of guitars. There is at least one Civil War photo of a soldier "band" which includes guitar, fiddle, banjo, bones and triangle.

I've also seen a photo of a civilian African-American group c. 1860 that includes two fiddles, a banjo, and a small bodied guitar.

What I haven't seen a photo of, although they were supposedly common, is someone playing a harmonica. (See other thread, Civil War Harmonicas)

Subject: RE: BS: Opinionated Civil War Music Article
From: JedMarum
Date: 09 Mar 01 - 01:23 PM

I loved it, Rick. Great comments, I laughed my as* off!!

And I understand the comments from those who think Mr Isaacson makes vaild points, too. My first reading of his article raised the hair on the back of neck, a bit ... but then I realized he was talking about the Civil War re-enactment events, themselves. My experience with these events, is as an outsider. I am there to perform, (and frankly enjoy the events as a spectator), and I am not expected to be a period aficionado. It is true that gatherings that include re-enactors, are not all meant to be entirely period authentic. It is true that songs like "Ashoken Farewell" can be entirely appropriate, under those circumstances, and 'laymen' performers such as myself, can be welcome.

So perhaps in fairness to Jon Isaacson, we may have considered his comments outside the arena at which they were aimed. If a re-enactor's event is meant to be entirely period, it is reasonable to expect the participants to do their homework - and presumably each event should provide guidelines, as someone mentioned above.

I will be playing a Civil War event tomorrow in Cleburn Texas with Eammons Kitchen, and Ed Miller. None of us are period performers, and don't try to be ... but we will have fun, and enjoy the festivities, just the same!

I am also looking forward to participating in the Sperryville Civil War Memorial next June in VA. I played there last year for the first time, and enjoyed it immensely. Any of you Mudcatters out VA, please keep the first weekend in June in mind. This small town event is held in a beautiful, historical setting, and will include some 'real period' performers (ones I believe Mr Isaacson would approve of) as well as some top shelf historian speakers, and some great re-enactment activities. When we get closer to the date, I'll post some more info, if there's any interest.

Kim C; maybe you can get Mr Isaacson to come to the forum and defend his thesis!

Subject: RE: BS: Opinionated Civil War Music Article
From: Kim C
Date: 09 Mar 01 - 01:05 PM

Other string instruments do show up from time to time... Tee Edmonds, who lived near Paris, VA, during the war, makes a specific reference in her diary to putting new strings on her guitar. A book called The Employments of Women, published 1863, states that women worked manufacturing STEEL STRINGS for guitars and other instruments. Parlor guitars show up in museums hither and yon. Yes, a fiddle and a banjo are safer because they were a lot more portable. But guitars were not unheard of.

Now about the strings --- I contacted Gruhn Guitars here in Nashville, and they told me that while steel guitar strings were available in the US, they did not gain widespread use until late in the 19th century.

It is nice to get as close as you can. Unfortunately, money tends to limit that for some of us.

Subject: RE: BS: Opinionated Civil War Music Article
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 09 Mar 01 - 12:58 PM

I enjoyed the guy's article. It definitely contained a liberal dose of sarcasm, but made some good points. I believe that a re-enaction should aim at accuracy where it can be achieved. Infection, bloodshed and exhaustion is expecting a bit too much. But I for one would enjoy hearing what a fire-side concert during the Civil War might have sounded like, knowing that the instruments, songs, and techniques are authentic.

In the same way, I find Bach concertos performed on period instruments very interesting, even though they lack the brightness and power of modern instruments. There is a certain thrill in knowing that the sound is the same one heard by those long ago.

Subject: RE: BS: Opinionated Civil War Music Article
From: Rex
Date: 09 Mar 01 - 12:47 PM

I have no argument with the above article. Why not try to get it as close as you can? There's so much info out on this web thing it's pretty easy to document your material. If my group is playing a late 1800's event we will have the parlor guitar and taterbug mandolin. But a mid 1800's gig? The fiddle and banjo are a safe bet. Other string unstruments don't show up in the old journals and photos. And there's no way to make a sound system fit in with 19th century music so I leave it home too. If that limits the size of your croud or setting, so be it.

Rex

Subject: RE: BS: Opinionated Civil War Music Article
From: katlaughing
Date: 09 Mar 01 - 11:58 AM

This is great!

Any comments on what he has to say about the dulcimer?

Subject: RE: BS: Opinionated Civil War Music Article
From: Kim C
Date: 09 Mar 01 - 11:55 AM

I have met Jon Isaacson and corresponded with him on a couple of occasions, and believe it or not, he is actually a pretty nice guy. He knows an awful lot of stuff.

I do agree with him on some points. There are some people who think any music described as "old-time" is appropriate for any living history event. It ain't. I don't want to go to a reenactment and hear somebody playing the Beverly Hillbillies theme or Copperhead Road, but believe me, it's happened.

And then there are people who try to pass themselves off as "authentic" who do no research on anything, and the General Public thinks they're getting a history lesson.

Now... that being said... I do think that "authenticity" can go Too Far and be Too Cumbersome for anyone to have a Good Time. Them that's wants it can have it.

As far as instruments are concerned, I can get an 1830s reproduction guitar for about $1500, but do you think I'd take it out camping? No way. The only concession I might make is to fiddle without my shoulder rest, but that depends on how long I have to play. If it's over 15 minutes, the rest stays, and authenticity be damned.

Mister has a cheap classical guitar that we take with us. We are very well aware that there is really no way to duplicate historical music with 100% accuracy. We don't have any recordings and we don't have the instruments. That's just the way it is.

When we made our tape (which, I might add, got a favorable review in the Watchdog last fall) we did not make any claims as to the authenticity of the sound. While we generally perform without amplification, we did use all the modern bells and whistles available to us in the recording process. All the songs are documented. Once in awhile, if we can't accurately document a tune we really like, we'll just say, we're singing this because we like it and we don't really know how old it is.

One interesting thing: Joe Ayers, who is mentioned in Isaacson's article as an authentic musician (and he is quite good, by the way), recorded Cripple Creek on a tape of songs he says come from mid-19th century Virginia. Go figure.

And, period or not, we get a lot of requests for Ashokan Farewell. When we can get away with it, we play it. Also people request my original songs. They sound old. :)

Subject: RE: BS: Opinionated Civil War Music Article
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 09 Mar 01 - 11:50 AM

"The problem is not in our stars.....but in THE AUDIENCE"!

How often I've been asked to sing (with an "authentic" band) early Canadian "folk" music.....for filthy lucre, by the way. Often the intended victims (excuse me, the audience) don't even wait for two songs to pass before asking (demanding comes later after a few drinks) for such "Canadian" staples as 'Rocky Top', Ballad of Jed Clampett, Foggy Mountain Breakdown, or if they're really knowledgable..and yes, I'm being sarcastic.."This Land is your Land".

These are "mainstream" folks, but even on a supposedly "folk and blues" forum like Mudcat, many still debate whether folks like Dylan or Paul Simon are folk singers.

I can understand the author's pique (even if he seems to think Gene Autrey is somehow responsible for modern country music....I doubt if he's actually heard much early Gene) but SOMEONE has to pay (in one way or another) for the period instruments, outfits, travel, and even the luxury of rehearsal time...and I guess that's the general public...just don't expect them to sit through ANY kind of music that demands personal involvement.

"Hey youse guys, play that Ashmolian Farewell again...the missus and I just love that Civil war stuff"!

Rick

Subject: RE: BS: Opinionated Civil War Music Article
From: Grab
Date: 09 Mar 01 - 11:47 AM

Devil's Advocate, you missed one other obvious thing - teeth. We've mostly got them, and they're all ours and mostly fairly straight following dental assistance. The rich would have their removed and replaced with false one, so they didn't get infected (wasn't Washington famous for his wooden teeth?). So anyone playing an officer, it's tooth extraction time...

Me, I'd rather see the Society for Creative Anachronism go for it. At least there, they recognise that trying to recreate a battle will inevitably fail - for one thing, everyone's got to get up at the end! So if you're not going for total accuracy, you can at least stick to the spirit of it.

Grab.

Subject: RE: BS: Opinionated Civil War Music Article
From: katlaughing
Date: 09 Mar 01 - 10:11 AM

These are great, phoaks! Keep the comments coming!

Spaw, that was one that jumped out and grabbed me, too! Totally absurd!

Subject: RE: BS: Opinionated Civil War Music Article
From: pattyClink
Date: 09 Mar 01 - 09:59 AM

One large reason why the article is best burned:

It will lessen the amount of music at these gatherings, and one of the things about that time was more people sang and played and recited, so what's accurate or beneficial about that?

The whole thing could have been replaced by a warning to request prospective players to please restrict the playlist to anything known in existence prior to 1860, (and if the author is such a fine scholar, he should replace his critique with a long list of songs known to be okay, along with a list of tapes and and books musicians could use for drawing up a Civil War repertoire)

Here's another way to make events authentic: each participant should sign an affidavit proving that they arrived on site via a 10 day walking or horseback journey, not in that pickup truck or SUV. Then they won't feel so stupid asking guitarists to go find catgut strings.

Subject: RE: BS: Opinionated Civil War Music Article
From: GUEST,Pete peterson
Date: 09 Mar 01 - 09:50 AM

Well that didn't work. Third time lucky? (the computer ate my first and second posts)
Nobody can be completely authentic, no matter how hard they try. When I owned a house built in about 1720 and we were working on rstoring it people would ask "are you going to do an authentic restoration?" I would reply "well, we would like to have indoor plumbing and electricity, neither of which was available in 1720." and go on from there.
Similarly, I use a 1931 Martin 0-18 with steel strings and a 1915 mongrel banjo (Sears Roebuck Supertone) also w steel strings for most re-enactment work and yes, I KNOW it's not authentic, but we change keys a lot and it means you don't have to wait 5' for us to get the gut strings in tune. Then we try to sing songs we know were written before 1865 and there's a lot of them. And try to play songs more-or-less in minstrel "stroke" style on bj and "parlor" style guitar-- thumb and fingers. I think we sound a lot like the old days but since Edison didn't get around to inventing the phonograph till around 1880, we don't know what it sounded like in 1861-65. I do think that Dixie played pretty much as the Skillet Lickers played it comes a lot closer to Dan Emmett's spirit than most of the "modern" versions.
and if pressed I quote Walt Whitman. "Do I contradict myself? Very well, I contradict myself. I am large, I contain multitudes."

Subject: RE: BS: Opinionated Civil War Music Article
From: SINSULL
Date: 09 Mar 01 - 09:44 AM

I guess if we wanted to keep opera authentic, we would have to go back to 300 lb. MiMis. I understand what he is saying and why he is saying it. I also undestand that he is being rude and condescending. I even agree with him - if your goal is to be accurate to a fault. Wonder if he covers himself with lice before each re-enactment...