BS: Anyone seen 'Songcatcher'?

Subject: BS: Anyone seen 'Songcatcher'?
From: JennieG
Date: 10 Mar 01 - 07:46 PM

The movie "Songcatcher" has recently been released here - I am thinking of seeing it (when I have time!) Any 'Catters seen it already? Opinions?

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone seen 'Songcatcher'?
From: Peg
Date: 10 Mar 01 - 08:58 PM

I saw it and reviewed it for the Boston Phoenix.

I liked it a lot; however I thought the soundtrack, rather than relying quite so much on a composed "score" should have actually utilized the traditional music the film was about! There IS a lot of singing in the film, but not enough in my opinion.

Good acting, good film overall. One plot twist (unorthodox love afair that shocks the community) that seems a bit gratuitous but not a big flaw, really. I do recommend it highly to anyone interested in traditional music, particularly its Appalachian origins!

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone seen 'Songcatcher'?
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 28 May 01 - 07:53 PM

I finally got around to reading last week's Sunday New York Times which lists a July release date for Songcatcher. There's lengthy (publicity) info about it and its soundtrack here, of which this is the opening text:

"Set off on an exhilarating adventure across a part of America still rarely seen, deep into the raw and rambling, high-mountain roots of rock, bluegrass, folk and country music. This is the terrain of SONGCATCHER, a different kind of movie about music: part love story, part archive of America's most secret musical legacies. Academy Award-nominee and Tony Award and Golden Globe-winner JANET MCTEER stars as turn-of-the-century musicologist Dr. Lily Penleric, an unlikely heroine whose earthy, unstoppable drive leads her to musical, personal and romantic discoveries as she uncovers remarkable songs, dances and beats of the heart in the Appalachian mountains.

Apparently the screenwriter was inspired by Olive Dame Campbell (founder of the John C. Campbell Folk School - see this thread - but the writer felt it might be nice to correct history and get her credit for her work (without having to rely on Cecil Sharp) and also give her a recording machine.

Sheila Kay Adams and Hazel Dickens were consultants for the music (and Dickens is on the soundtrack).

Looks ambitious, though maybe not up to its potential. A review is here. Can't hurt in to spreading the good word, though...

~ Becky in Tucson

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone seen 'Songcatcher'?
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 28 May 01 - 08:08 PM

Oops, that release date (NY and LA) is June 15.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone seen 'Songcatcher'?
From: catspaw49
Date: 28 May 01 - 08:28 PM

There are at least 3 previous threads on this movie, noe very long, but there is some additional info.

Peg, I understand Aidan Quinn got decent reviews for this one as did Muse Watson who played Parley Gentry. He had just come to Berea College as a drama major when I was leaving. Good actor then but has never made it big.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone seen 'Songcatcher'?
From: Peg
Date: 28 May 01 - 10:50 PM

Yes Aidan is wonderful in it as are all the actors! Not sure of this character you mention...but I did think all the acting was great.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone seen 'Songcatcher'?
From: Walking Eagle
Date: 31 May 01 - 04:41 PM

Thanks for the tip. It'll probably be in limited release and that means that most of us will be out of luck and will have to wait until it comes out in video/dvd to see it.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone seen 'Songcatcher'?
From: Tedham Porterhouse
Date: 31 May 01 - 04:59 PM

This morning on CKUT, Mike Regenstrief played two versions of "Barbara Allen" from the soundtrack to "Songcatcher." First, a short a cappella version that sounded like a field recording, then a modern version by Emmylou Harris that was really nice.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone seen 'Songcatcher'?
From: GUEST,SEANM
Date: 01 Jun 01 - 08:01 AM

I saw 'Songcatcher' a few weeks ago. It is an entertaining film that brings home to traditional music fans the hardships undergone by collectors in the early years of field recording work. The acting was generally good although I didn't think Quinn was really that effective as a highly intelligent but embittered war veteran who has given up on the modern world. His 'reconciliation' and re-embracing of commercial values seems a little too easy.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone seen 'Songcatcher'?
From: GUEST,es silberman
Date: 23 Jun 01 - 08:35 PM

just saw Songcatcher and loved it! a great movie regradless of your interest or lack of any in old time music. Agree with comments above that it would've nice to have mountain throughout and none of the sappy hollywood strings. Agree that the decision that the Adian Quinn charecter made at the very end of the movie was a little less than credible. As was the lesbian element, 'tho other wise I appreciated the lesbian element, thought it ws well handled. The singing of old time mountain songs was great, they found a lot realy fine singers! Taj Mahal seemed a little gratuitous, a little token, a nod to political correctness, but other wise I liked the way his character was handled. However I wish he had played a traditional song that his charecter would've actually played instead using one he wrote himself, fine tune that it is though. The lead female acter is great! Photography is great! It would've nice to have credits of the musicain and singers. They did however give the songs credits in their own right, as if they were charectors, an unusual and very nice touch! Beats "O Brother..." hands down for showing respect to southern people and southern music (says this City Yankee). Does anyone if a soundtrack album is available?

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone seen 'Songcatcher'?
From: Susan of DT
Date: 14 Jul 01 - 09:14 PM

Dick and I saw this movie today. The music is wonderful - ballads and some instrumental traditional Appalachian style. There isn't much plot, but go for the music. It is very well done. We did not realize Sheila Kay Adams was the music consultant until the final credits, but that definately explained why it was so good. Two outstanding singers were the young girl and the old woman. It was showing in a movie theatre that caters to foreign films and the like. This probably does not have mass appeal, but those mudcatters who appreciate traditional music should go see it, it the opportunity presents itself. Enjoy.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone seen 'Songcatcher'?
From: Susan of DT
Date: 14 Jul 01 - 09:45 PM

(From dick greenhaus)

WARNING! I find that the "sound track" CD only has three cuts that appeared in the movie. THe other 15 are filled up by the likes of Allison Kraus, Dolly Parton and other commercial country singers---competent performers, no doubt but a far cry from the fine traditional-sounding music in the movie.

I am of the old school, that thinks that sound track or original cast recordings should present what was done on screen (or stage). This is, apparently, an obsolete concept.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone seen 'Songcatcher'?
From: Charlie Baum
Date: 15 Jul 01 - 01:44 AM

I saw the film last Wednesday. Great music, okay acting, but the script needs a lot of work--probably a total rewrite. It's laden with anachronisms and geographical inaccuracies. There are post-modern sympathies placed in the mouths of people who would never have expressed such opinons back in the early 1900s; there are moments of present-day political correctness in the the dialogue that ring false, and a modern feminist attitude towards glass ceilings that is grafted onto a Victorian-era career problem--a woman in that time period might have been disappointed at not being promoted, but she could hardly have been surprised by it, and would certainly have expected it. Then there is someone who is buying out mountain farms in Western North Carolina for coal companies, as though North Carolina and Kentucky were the same place. (There are distinct geographical regions within Appalachia, but the movie chooses to ignore that fact; some areas of Appalachia were exploited for coal and some for lumber, but that part of North Carolina was never coal country.)

But DO go see the movie for the music--there are genuine turns by singers who have been singing mountian music for ages, including Sheila Kay Adams, Bobby McMillon, and Hazel Dickens. Iris Dement sounds like she's a genuine Appalachian singer when she sings "Pretty Saro" (though she's actually from Arkansas). And the "field recording" version of Barbara Allen referred to above by Tedham Porterhouse was actually sung by Emily Rossum, a teenager from New York City. Ms. Rossum's resume includes operatic performances, but she was coached by Sheila Kay Adams and has learned to sound very much like a balladeer from the Black Mountains, the sign of a great young actress, singer and mimic.

One more quibble--while Olive Dame Campbell and Cecil Sharp are credited in the closing credits as inspirations for the film, no mention is made of Dorothy Scarborough, whose book "Songcatcher in the Southern Mountains" provided some elements of the plot and the very title of the movie.

--Charlie Baum

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone seen 'Songcatcher'?
From: toadfrog
Date: 15 Jul 01 - 03:09 AM

I saw Songcatcher this evening, and have to agree with just about everything Charley has to say, including the grating anacronisms. Like when mountaineer tells Ms. P she is "stealing" his songs, as if that would occur to someone who had just met his first collector. ThatCharley knows more than I, including the original story. But I will add that their "Pretty Saro" was powerful. I had never given that song much thought before.

A point that puzzles me, and I wonder if anyone could enlighten: Twice now, in Songcatcher and in O Brother Etc., the villian sings "Oh Death!" and the song is to be understood as a threat. (The Grand Dragon or whatever in O Brother, and here the coal company man.) Is there any historical record of the song's having been used that way, or is that just a conceit dreamed up by moviemakers?

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone seen 'Songcatcher'?
From: catspaw49
Date: 29 Aug 01 - 10:09 PM

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone seen 'Songcatcher'?
From: Amos
Date: 29 Aug 01 - 10:18 PM

It is a conceit.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone seen 'Songcatcher'?
From: DougR
Date: 29 Aug 01 - 11:35 PM

Spaw, were you at Berea when Billy Edd Wheeler was there?

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone seen 'Songcatcher'?
From: catspaw49
Date: 30 Aug 01 - 03:05 PM

Because I don't know which of the 10 threads someone may be tracing, I'm posting this on ALL of the "Songcatcher" threads.

Our good member annamil has a video store and I asked her to check on the " of the movie being available on videotape and as she always does, came through for us. Here is what she posted:

**********************************************************

I just called my dealer and he says it will be out Oct 23rd and I will pre-book it Oct 1st. You won't be able to buy it for awhile, but you will be able to rent it. I didn't know about this movie til I read this thread and I only read this thread because someone mentioned it in another thread. I can't wait to see it and more importantly, I can't wait to HEAR it.

I'm not sure how many I should order for the store as this is the first I've heard of it.

From what I heard and read here, it may be worth 10 threads ;-)

Love, Annamill

**********************************************************

So go bug your local videostore and tell them you want to rent "Songcatcher." And when you do.........Don't start another freakin' thread huh?

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone seen 'Songcatcher'?
From: Abby Sale
Date: 03 Sep 01 - 06:14 PM

I am so pleased "Song Catcher" finally got to Orlando and that I finally got to see it today. Good flick as you'all have said. Wonderfully portrayed styles of song. (all 12-tone & standard keys but giving, I think, an excellent representation of the music for the theater audience.)

I especially appreciated the distinction made between ballad & song; between personal & social music; between instrumental music and vocal; and between instrumental music and instrumental accompaniment. (Good job on that - the fiddle does not "steal" the song from the singer, it enhances it.) Plus the intense social setting and value of the music. All squose into a brief, compressed setting but Great. I don't think the points were overmade that collectors did exploit the music, that guitar is a recent innovation to "folk" song or that a capella was the norm, not the exception or oddity & likely a few others if I thought about it. Polemic, but worth mentioning to a theater, not an academic audience.

I suppose the lead character is loosely based on the work of Olive Dame Campbell who collected from 1907 to 1910. She is barely more than a name to me - Sharp (obviously the "Prof. Whittle" character) prints & credits her with 32 songs plus variants but neither he nor Karples (who did accompany him) says much of annything about her.

I wish I knew more about her. It's odd that so many of the early great collectatrixes were women out in the woods, mountains & logging camps. Good on 'em.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone seen 'Songcatcher'?
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 03 Sep 01 - 06:45 PM

Abby, a while back on one of the many Songcatcher threads I included a link like this to the history of the John C. Campbell Folk School. You'll find there a picture of Olive Campbell and Marguerite Butler, as well as the following info (which I include here in case the link doesn't work someday):

John C. Campbell, born in Indiana and raised in Wisconsin, studied education and theology in New England. Like many other idealistic young people of his generation, he felt a calling to humanitarian work.

At the turn of the century, the Southern Appalachian region was viewed as a fertile field for educational and social missions. With his new bride, Olive Dame of Massachusetts, John undertook a fact-finding survey of social conditions in the mountains in 1908-1909. The Campbells outfitted a wagon as a traveling home and studied mountain life from Georgia to West Virginia. While John interviewed farmers about their agricultural practices, Olive collected ancient Appalachian ballads and studied the handicrafts of the mountain people. Both were hopeful that the quality of life could be improved by education, and in turn wanted to preserve and share with the rest of the world the wonderful crafts, techniques and tools that the mountain people used in every day life. The folkehojskole (folk school) had long been a force in the rural life of Denmark. These schools for life helped transform the Danish countryside into a vibrant, creative force. The Campbells talked of establishing such a school in the rural southern United States as an alternative to the higher education facilities that drew young people away from the family farm.

After John died in 1919, Olive and her friend Marguerite Butler traveled to Europe and studied folk schools in Denmark, Sweden and other countries. They returned to the U.S. full of purposeful energy and a determination to start such a school in Appalachia. They realized, more than many reformers of the day, that they could not impose their ideas on the mountain people. They would need to develop a genuine collaboration. Several locations were under consideration for the experimental school. On an exploratory trip, Miss Butler discussed the idea with Fred O. Scroggs, Brasstown's local storekeeper, and said she would be back in a few weeks to see if any interest had been shown. When she returned, it was to a meeting of over 200 people at the local church. The people of Cherokee and Clay counties pledged labor, building materials and other support.

In 1925, the Folk School began its work. ---------

I was lucky enought to attend the Folk School in 1994 to do a weekend Christian Harmony (7-shape Shape-note singing) singing school with Laura Boosinger, and Dance Callers' Week with Bob Dalsemer. Bob Dalsemer is the music and dance director at the school.

~ Becky in Tucson

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone seen 'Songcatcher'?
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 03 Sep 01 - 06:49 PM

Just realized it's not included in the above info: the John C. Campbell Folk School is in Brasstown, North Carolina, in the far southwestern corner of the state.

~ Becky in Tucson

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone seen 'Songcatcher'?
From: GUEST,Doc Rock
Date: 04 Sep 01 - 10:35 AM

I haven't seen the movie yet, but I have nearly worn out my CD. It is surprising that the so-called soundtrack does not follow the movie. Is it because all the songs in the film are ballads without instrumental back-up and thus would not be viewed as commercially viable compared to those on the CD? Nonetheless, it is a great CD and i think that gals like Parton, Krauss and Harris are well-suited for doing those songs.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone seen 'Songcatcher'?
From: Abby Sale
Date: 04 Sep 01 - 06:18 PM

DD: I think you were fortunate, indeed (& clever) to attend the school. Yes, after I posted (naturally) I followed the link to the school. And that to MapQuest - it is far southwest, yes. Hmmm. travelled over Europe with another woman, did she? Hmmm. She must have been an interesting person.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone seen 'Songcatcher'?
From: Peg
Date: 04 Sep 01 - 11:10 PM

hey it is coming out on video on my birthday! (October 23rd)

and this thread had 23 posts before I responded!

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone seen 'Songcatcher'?
From: MAG
Date: 05 Sep 01 - 12:41 AM

I love sappy happy endings. This wasn't a documentary. After the double whammy of Hidden Tiger, Sleeping Dragon (or was it the other way?) I needed a sappy happy ending.

(Unless, like Hollywood's Wuthering Heights, they miss the point of the book.)

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone seen 'Songcatcher'?
From: catspaw49
Date: 05 Sep 01 - 12:49 AM

I thought it was "Bulemic Aardvark, Crouching Wombat"..........whatever it was, I didn't like it (admittedly, I have no taste).

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone seen 'Songcatcher'?
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 05 Sep 01 - 02:36 AM

Abby, it wasn't until I looked at this again in the morning that I realized that the "one of the many threads" that I'd included the originial link on was this very one, and right at the top! Oops. Worth adding the text here for posterity, though, I guess...

And yes, looks like maybe more than one character from the movie could have been drawn from Olive Campbell's example...

~ Becky in Tucson

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone seen 'Songcatcher'?
From: Deda
Date: 13 Nov 01 - 03:59 PM

In case anyone else besides me missed the movie in the theaters, I was able to rent it this past weekend; I don't know whether Blockbuster will notice it but our local independant place had it. Well worth seeing!

(Besides, it's time to poke Spaw and see if he's awake.) (;o>

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone seen 'Songcatcher'?
From: Mary in Kentucky
Date: 13 Nov 01 - 07:45 PM

DON'T JUMP UP AND DOWN, SPAW...

I rented it last week too. The girl at the rental place said, "Have you seen Oh Brother?"

I have a question for a friend...does anybody know of another singer (who has tapes or CD's for purchase) who sings in the Appalachian style? (besides Jean)

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone seen 'Songcatcher'?
From: GUEST,Richard Gunder
Date: 13 Nov 01 - 08:08 PM

I've heard that they used Seagull Guitars in the picture - anyone know anything about them?

Thanks

Richard

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone seen 'Songcatcher'?
From: catspaw49
Date: 13 Nov 01 - 09:17 PM

Bite me Richard!!

Mary.......Go to the Folk Legacy site and order up!!!!

Also see this recent thread.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone seen 'Songcatcher'?
From: LR Mole
Date: 14 Nov 01 - 10:31 AM

I thought this was about the electric slide-playing blues kid who meets an African explorer at a crossroads and then gets a guitar from a mystical bird, but I guess that was "Songcatcher in the Ry Meets Jonathan Livingston Seagulls". Sorry.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone seen 'Songcatcher'?
From: Fortunato
Date: 14 Nov 01 - 10:40 AM

Now here, children, is a very good example of a "Zombie Thread", a thread that is very dead, yet walks among the living. Repeat after me class: "No more posts, no more posts".

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone seen 'Songcatcher'?
From: Mary in Kentucky
Date: 14 Nov 01 - 10:49 AM

no more posts, no more posts...

hmmmmmm...doesn't work!

I just emailed my friend and told her to see the links Spaw referred to above.

I think as long as there are new people being introduced to music that is new to them, this subject will never be dead.

Now has anyone figured out who "the traipsin' woman" is/was? That was one of my dad's nicknames for me. I always thought it was someone like a songcatcher in the mountains.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone seen 'Songcatcher'?
From: mandomad
Date: 14 Nov 01 - 10:55 AM

Songcatcher has sunk without trace in the U.K. No mention of it anywhere. Even the web site with the sound bites has vanished. It would appear to be a great movie, of great interest to us Catters here. Such a shame if it doesn't get a release. I asked for the sound track in several retailers. They hadn't even heard of it. Thankfully CD Now has the playable 30 seconds, but these tracks are not the actual songs from the film, is that so? "Oh Brother" hardly made an impression over here, but I was able to get both the video and the C.D.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone seen 'Songcatcher'?
From: GUEST,Philippa
Date: 17 Nov 01 - 03:57 AM

I looked for credits for singing and music and there was little, implying the actors did their own. I believe Aidan Quinn sang and strummed guitar but does he play banjo, and that well? Or else, who did?

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone seen 'Songcatcher'?
From: Susan of DT
Date: 17 Nov 01 - 12:54 PM

(dick greenhaus here) The "Traipsin' Woman" was Jean Thomas; Dorothy Scarborough, I bekieve, first used the term "Songcatcher" in her book "Soncatcher in the Southern Mountains" (or was it "Highlands"?)

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone seen 'Songcatcher'?
From: SINSULL
Date: 17 Nov 01 - 02:36 PM

Someone did and created a thread "I Saw IT". Don't miss the insightful (maybe inciteful is a better choice) review.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone seen 'Songcatcher'?
From: DougR
Date: 17 Nov 01 - 08:08 PM

Just my opinion, Sinsull, just an opinion. :>)

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone seen 'Songcatcher'?
From: jaze
Date: 18 Nov 01 - 02:24 PM

If anything about this thread or movie could redeem it for Spaw, perhaps knowing that Emmylou herself sings "Barbara Allen". I haven't seen it yet, but this alone would make it worthwhile for me.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone seen 'Songcatcher'?
From: Mary in Kentucky
Date: 18 Nov 01 - 03:13 PM

THANKS DICK! I'll look that one up. I suspect my dad knew nothing about collecting songs but was simply referring to my wanderlust.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone seen 'Songcatcher'?
From: Peter Kasin
Date: 19 Nov 01 - 02:35 PM

Mary -

Check out the CD "Her Bright Smile Haunts Me Still: The Warner Collection, Volume 1." Traditional Appalachian songs, collected 55-60 years ago by a couple who did their collecting part-time, but managed to amass a very impressive collection. I think it has what you're seeking.

-chanteyranger

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone seen 'Songcatcher'?
From: Mary in Kentucky
Date: 19 Nov 01 - 03:46 PM

Thanks Chanteyranger. I'll have to check that out along with the photos and info at U of L, here.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone seen 'Songcatcher'?
From: catspaw49
Date: 19 Nov 01 - 04:31 PM

Mary, you might also spend some time "traipsin" around at this site. In doing so, you'll eventually run across this page of links and you need to check them out too. You're fortunate not to be too far from UK, UoL, and Berea College which all have some excellent resources.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone seen 'Songcatcher'?
From: catspaw49
Date: 19 Nov 01 - 04:38 PM

One more link Mary......To Appalshop and Hazel Dickens..........CLICK HERE

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone seen 'Songcatcher'?
From: Tweed
Date: 19 Nov 01 - 07:32 PM

And another to Mary from Kentucky. Carl Rutherford seems about as real as you can get. I'm threatening to send off for this one. It's at the music maker relief foundation's store. Tim Duffy locates and records some pretty special people.
Carl Rutherford

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone seen 'Songcatcher'?
From: Mary in Kentucky
Date: 19 Nov 01 - 07:54 PM

Thanks, thanks. I'm VERY familiar with the libraries at both UK and UofL. I got my Master's in Education at UofL and used to spend one entire day a week at the beautiful library there. Also, the new library at UK is simply unbelievable. My son gave me a tour of it several years ago...the quilt collection is gorgeous. And they have internet hookups, study rooms, and enough chairs to seat every student at the university AT THE SAME TIME! I haven't been to Berea lately, but would love to eat at Boone Tavern (hint, hint).

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone seen 'Songcatcher'?
From: catspaw49
Date: 19 Nov 01 - 10:14 PM

Gee, a dinner at Boone Saloon huh? Looks like we're going that way on a weekend in the first part of December........A little spoonbread, a little talk............

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone seen 'Songcatcher'?
From: Peter Kasin
Date: 20 Nov 01 - 12:38 AM

Mary, since you're familiar with field recordings, is your question then about current performers?

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone seen 'Songcatcher'?
From: Mary in Kentucky
Date: 20 Nov 01 - 03:34 PM

Spaw, I'd do anything for spoon bread...well, almost anything! But December is filled with lots of self-inflicted busyness. Let me know when you'll be there though, I just might be traipsin' thru Berea.

Chanteyranger, I'm not really familiar with field recordings, but since I love the music so much I intend to check out all the things I can find. Keep those links coming, I'm still studying and bookmarking info. (I'm still reviewing the info on modes I learned here at Mudcat.)