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BS: Foot & Mouth II

Greyeyes 11 Mar 01 - 02:52 PM
Llanfair 11 Mar 01 - 06:49 PM
Greyeyes 11 Mar 01 - 06:59 PM
GUEST,pete M at work 11 Mar 01 - 08:04 PM
Gervase 12 Mar 01 - 05:42 AM
KingBrilliant 12 Mar 01 - 11:00 AM
Greyeyes 12 Mar 01 - 03:04 PM
Airto 13 Mar 01 - 09:25 AM
Wolfgang 13 Mar 01 - 09:51 AM
bill\sables 13 Mar 01 - 09:55 AM
Greyeyes 13 Mar 01 - 02:14 PM
John Routledge 13 Mar 01 - 02:56 PM
Pete M 13 Mar 01 - 03:17 PM
Penny S. 13 Mar 01 - 03:24 PM
Morticia 13 Mar 01 - 03:31 PM
Bert 13 Mar 01 - 04:37 PM
Llanfair 13 Mar 01 - 05:32 PM
nutty 13 Mar 01 - 06:10 PM
Penny S. 13 Mar 01 - 06:15 PM
Metchosin 14 Mar 01 - 02:38 AM
sian, west wales 14 Mar 01 - 04:38 AM
Gervase 14 Mar 01 - 04:45 AM
Grab 14 Mar 01 - 07:11 AM
MartinRyan 14 Mar 01 - 07:37 AM
MartinRyan 14 Mar 01 - 07:41 AM
GUEST,Sooze (at work) 15 Mar 01 - 03:40 AM
Letty 15 Mar 01 - 07:10 AM
Troll 15 Mar 01 - 09:45 AM
Mrrzy 15 Mar 01 - 09:54 AM
Llanfair 15 Mar 01 - 10:14 AM
SINSULL 15 Mar 01 - 10:54 AM
Greyeyes 15 Mar 01 - 01:54 PM
Llanfair 16 Mar 01 - 05:21 PM
Lanfranc 16 Mar 01 - 06:37 PM
Rollo 16 Mar 01 - 08:30 PM
Julie B 22 Mar 01 - 05:02 AM
Linda Kelly 22 Mar 01 - 05:29 AM
nutty 22 Mar 01 - 05:52 AM
Julie B 22 Mar 01 - 05:56 AM
Wolfgang 22 Mar 01 - 06:06 AM
Grab 22 Mar 01 - 06:41 AM
SINSULL 22 Mar 01 - 08:59 AM
Wavestar 22 Mar 01 - 09:08 AM
Jeri 22 Mar 01 - 09:53 AM
Jeri 22 Mar 01 - 10:20 AM
Letty 23 Mar 01 - 06:45 AM
Morticia 23 Mar 01 - 02:27 PM
Hawker 27 Mar 01 - 07:26 PM
Llanfair 28 Mar 01 - 05:27 AM
GUEST,Fibula Mattock 28 Mar 01 - 06:56 AM
Hawker 29 Mar 01 - 04:46 PM
nutty 29 Mar 01 - 05:01 PM
GUEST,a townie that cares 29 Mar 01 - 06:19 PM
BanjoRay 29 Mar 01 - 07:49 PM
GUEST,a townie that cares 30 Mar 01 - 09:18 PM
Greyeyes 31 Mar 01 - 09:28 AM
BanjoRay 31 Mar 01 - 06:30 PM
Art Thieme 02 Apr 01 - 10:48 PM
Jeri 03 Apr 01 - 09:05 AM
GUEST 03 Apr 01 - 09:15 AM
GUEST,Greyeyes 03 Apr 01 - 09:15 AM
GUEST,Willa 03 Apr 01 - 03:35 PM
Llanfair 03 Apr 01 - 04:53 PM
Greyeyes 03 Apr 01 - 05:05 PM
Llanfair 04 Apr 01 - 03:19 AM
Liz the Squeak 04 Apr 01 - 03:42 PM
Greyeyes 04 Apr 01 - 03:59 PM
P Mitchell@work 06 Jun 01 - 01:20 PM
vectis 06 Jun 01 - 03:14 PM
Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull 06 Jun 01 - 08:52 PM
Llanfair 07 Jun 01 - 02:53 AM
GUEST 07 Jun 01 - 03:14 PM
Gervase 08 Jun 01 - 05:10 AM
John Routledge 08 Jun 01 - 06:15 AM
GUEST 02 Aug 01 - 03:00 PM
Linda Kelly 02 Aug 01 - 06:03 PM

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Subject: Foot & Mouth II
From: Greyeyes
Date: 11 Mar 01 - 02:52 PM

I'm not sure we need a part 2, but we're well past the 100 post guideline, so here it is. If it dies it dies. Click here for part 1


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Subject: RE: BS: Foot & Mouth II
From: Llanfair
Date: 11 Mar 01 - 06:49 PM

F&M case confirmed today at Churchstoke, 16 miles away. The link is Welshpool market. 24 cases today, and the government announced that it was under control.
This confirms that the house of commons is actually on a completely different planet to the rest of us.
Bron.


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Subject: RE: BS: Foot & Mouth II
From: Greyeyes
Date: 11 Mar 01 - 06:59 PM

Too true Llanfair. The Govt. claim that every single case so far can be traced back to the original source, so there is no reason to suspect airborn infection. This is totally contrary towhat many farmers have told me. According to them many cases cannot be traced back to the original source, and airborn infection is pretty much a certainty.


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Subject: RE: BS: Foot & Mouth II
From: GUEST,pete M at work
Date: 11 Mar 01 - 08:04 PM

Greyeyes,

I think you have missed the point. Airborne transmission is an accepted vector. I can only go by what is on the news and the MAFF site but my understanding is that the epidemiology of the current outbreak can trace those sites which have not had any direct contact with known carriers to confirmed sites given the wind, humidity, and temperature prevailing during the critical period.

Given that the last major outbreak in the UK is thought to have originated from the continent by airborn virus, any animal 30 miles downwind of an infected site has to be considered as being at risk.

Pete M


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Subject: RE: BS: Foot & Mouth II
From: Gervase
Date: 12 Mar 01 - 05:42 AM

Hmm, Pete.
I'd love to hear how MAFF squares the 30-mile range for F&M transmission with the 30-metre range for the so-called safe zone for GM pollen transmission.
Or am I just being a terrible old cynic?


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Subject: RE: BS: Foot & Mouth II
From: KingBrilliant
Date: 12 Mar 01 - 11:00 AM

Gervase - in a terrible old world its always wise to be a terrible old cynic. Kris.


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Subject: RE: BS: Foot & Mouth II
From: Greyeyes
Date: 12 Mar 01 - 03:04 PM

Pete M, you are right, I have revisited the MAFF site and I was missing the point. Thanks for the correction.


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Subject: RE: BS: Foot & Mouth II
From: Airto
Date: 13 Mar 01 - 09:25 AM

I agree that we have to get away from intensive farming methods as quickly as possible, for environmental as well as health reasons, but insisting on eating only local produce is no solution.

For a start, the UK is not self-sufficient in food and would be even less so if production was less intensive. Importing food is a necessity.

And for countries like Kenya, selling food earns the money to pay for the goods they need to buy from us. I personally welcome the sight of products from such countries on supermarket shelves as a sign they may be starting to get a share of our prosperity.

I also have difficulty with the notion we should eat more fish. Marine resources are being depleted and boats are going ever further afield to get their catches. The fishery agreements between the EU and certain African coastal countries are pure old-fashioned economic colonialism. We're overfishing off their shores because we've already done the same to our own and nobody's in any position to police it.

It's already been said, but it's true that there are no simple solutions.


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Subject: RE: BS: Foot & Mouth II
From: Wolfgang
Date: 13 Mar 01 - 09:51 AM

The disease today has jumped the Channel and has arrived on the European Mainland. France, but it won't stop there.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: Foot & Mouth II
From: bill\sables
Date: 13 Mar 01 - 09:55 AM

I have heard that when the animals are slaughtered they are left for days before cremmation, (This did occur in Yorkshire) due to lack of coal and wood for the pyre. During this time rats, foxes, crows etc are eating the carcases and then traveling into non affected areas and carrying the virus. Surely it would be wiser to build the pyre and then slaughter and cremate immediatly. On other point in Yorkshire around York petrol stations, whose customers are farmers and truck drivers as well as the general public, do not have disinfection baths on their forcourts. And on a recent drive around my area out of nineteen farms only three farms and a paintball site did have disinfectant baths. One particular farmer near Wheldrake, with a sheep farm and turf business is allowing trucks laden with turf to come and go onto his land without a bath.
Bill


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Subject: RE: BS: Foot & Mouth II
From: Greyeyes
Date: 13 Mar 01 - 02:14 PM

I have heard cases today of police confiscating farmer's shotguns, to prevent them committing suicide.


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Subject: RE: BS: Foot & Mouth II
From: John Routledge
Date: 13 Mar 01 - 02:56 PM

Bill -- Thanks for highlighting the sad reality. No wonder townies (and myself) are wondering what the hell is going on. GB


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Subject: RE: BS: Foot & Mouth II
From: Pete M
Date: 13 Mar 01 - 03:17 PM

One thing that is coming through quite clearly in the reports etc that we recieve in NZ is that MAFF and "the Government" (as an institution, not any particular party) has lost so much credibility over their attemps to hush up the BSE problem, that now no-one believes them even if what they are doing really is effective.

Just heard on the news that there is a suspected outbreak in Italy and that the USA has banned all meat imports from the EU.

Pete M


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Subject: RE: BS: Foot & Mouth II
From: Penny S.
Date: 13 Mar 01 - 03:24 PM

The point about the waiting carcases was discussed on the TV this evening. It was stated that (a) once the creature is dead, the virus cannot replicate and multiply - true, I think. (b) the acidity of the flesh increases, and destroys the virus - if so, how come meat can be a source of the infection? (c) animals such as foxes can only carry the virus a limited distance on their feet - the cases where starlings were blamed were later proved to be airborne plumes from pigs.

I want to know how the disease got to that fattening plant.

Penny


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Subject: RE: BS: Foot & Mouth II
From: Morticia
Date: 13 Mar 01 - 03:31 PM

Just for a little light relief and not wishing in any way to trivialise such a serious matter but I was sent this today......

Japanese authorities have banned all animal movements after several beds were found nibbled in Tokyo.

It is thought this may be an outbreak of the dreaded Futon Mouse.


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Subject: RE: BS: Foot & Mouth II
From: Bert
Date: 13 Mar 01 - 04:37 PM

Morty, Ooooh! Groooaaan. I hope you don't expect a snog for that one.

Bert (it's funny though)


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Subject: RE: BS: Foot & Mouth II
From: Llanfair
Date: 13 Mar 01 - 05:32 PM

Suspected case in Llanfair Caereinion. Most social activities cancelled, playgroups closed, and the school may be closed if the case is confirmed.
Bron.


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Subject: RE: BS: Foot & Mouth II
From: nutty
Date: 13 Mar 01 - 06:10 PM

The Outbreak is now being called a NATIONAL CRISIS

There are now proven 205 cases of Foot and Mouth

131,000 animals have now been slaughtered

47,000 animals are awaiting slaughter

The countryside has virtually closed down ..... all National Trust Property - CLOSED ......... All Forestry Commission Land - CLOSED ....... All Rights of way in National Parks - CLOSED ...... two thirds of all footpaths in England - CLOSED ....... ALL footpaths in Wales - CLOSED

The rural economy is struggling as visitors stay away from the countryside


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Subject: RE: BS: Foot & Mouth II
From: Penny S.
Date: 13 Mar 01 - 06:15 PM

We have a country park near us. No animals. The nearby fields are arable. But it's closed off.

Penny


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Subject: RE: BS: Foot & Mouth II
From: Metchosin
Date: 14 Mar 01 - 02:38 AM

The CBC announced that the disease has finally reached continental Europe, which I found rather misleading, unless you don't consider Greece, Italy, Serbia and Slovakia et al European countries. There have been reported cases in those countries as well as Russia since 1993 onward.


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Subject: RE: BS: Foot & Mouth II
From: sian, west wales
Date: 14 Mar 01 - 04:38 AM

Nutty, the sad thing is ... the countryside isn't closed down. Here we are still waiting test results on a farm 7 miles west of here (no news = good news?), the marts are closed as are outdoor public places (parks, National Botanic Garden) but I'm still being told to go to meetings in mid-Wales and some sports events are still taking place and they're still talking about holding elections and ... and...

There is major consternation at the inconsistency of the advice being given - when there is advice at all! The guidelines are pretty clear if you actually farm, but it's like pulling teeth to get info and advice which is relevant to the broader rural community.

Llanfair, I'm SO sorry to have heard about your local situation. And your farmers will also have had the floods to contend with, as well as other plagues and pestilences. I'm keeping in touch with my family just north of you and things seems OK so far.

Cross fingers.

sian


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Subject: RE: BS: Foot & Mouth II
From: Gervase
Date: 14 Mar 01 - 04:45 AM

At our club last night there was a definite air of gloom at the imminent cancellation of many of this summer's festivals, showing that even died-in-the-wool townies realise the ramifications of this outbreak
Gerry Milne then brought things to a standstill with a song written by Tony Brode after the last F&M outbreak in 1967. It's got a new last verse from Andy Jackson - who's just had to cancel Miskin this Easter on MAFF advice. Unfortunately I haven't got the dots for the tune...

Fire in the Fields
(Tony Brode)

As I was a walking along Portsdown Hill
I looked away over towards Boarhunt Mill.
The land it was leafless, the boughs they were bare,
And the smoke spiralled up in the cold winter air.

Dark days and fire in the fields.

The land slopes away to the downland beneath,
The smoke it rose lazily over Leigh heath,
And the tractors and bulldozers worked on and on,
But the cowsheds were empty the cattle all gone.

Dark days and fire in the fields.

From Southwick to Soberton pestilence spread.
In Fareham and Funtley the livestock lay dead.
We've counted the sheep and the cows that were lost,
But it's not just in money we reckon the cost.

Dark days and fire in the fields.

But who is to blame for infecting the herds,
Well the experts they say that it must be the birds,
But down here in Hampshire we wish they were sure,
It's prevention we want if they can't find a cure.

Dark days and fire in the fields.

So keep off the footpaths and stay in your home,
And don't exercise your new "right to roam".
The Farmer the Cowman they're doing their best,
To again rid this country of this terrible pest.

Dark days and fire in the fields.


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Subject: RE: BS: Foot & Mouth II
From: Grab
Date: 14 Mar 01 - 07:11 AM

Gervase, there _is_ a cure - vaccination. But (a) it makes it difficult to export livestock, since tests can't tell the difference between vaccinated animals and ones with the "live" virus; and (b) it's expensive. So when there'd been no new cases for long enough, MAFF decided that the disease had gone and it was safe to stop vaccinating. Bad move, but anyway.

Something today about this - a guy on the radio saying that although the farmers will get compensation, there's no chance of compensation for all the ppl who depend on tourism, passing trade or trade from farmers in country areas. Pretty damn serious for them.

Grab.


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Subject: RE: BS: Foot & Mouth II
From: MartinRyan
Date: 14 Mar 01 - 07:37 AM

Gervase

Coincidentally, just lst week I picked up a collection of songs written by a Donegal man called Jim Burke, in the sixties and seventies. It includes quite a nice one on F & M - I'll post it here when I have a chnace.

Regards


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Subject: ADD: Foot and Mouth Disease ^^
From: MartinRyan
Date: 14 Mar 01 - 07:41 AM

Here we go:

Foot and Mouth Disease (J Burke, Donegal)

Though you may boast of foreign lands , there's trouble everywhere
When you hear the farmers talking at the markets and the fairs
For we must take this warning at home or overseas
If we want to keep our country free from foot and mouth disease

'Tis raging over in England - in most places can be found
And its bad news for our exiles - 'twill devaluate the pound
Should anyone return home, take all precautions please
To protect your native birthplace from the foot and mouth disease

Our statesmen are all working hard to give them all their dues
Don't enter fair or market till you disinfect your shoes
For if you do you'll break the law, no decent man you'll please
As we fight the epidemic of the foot and mouth disease.

They've had to ban all racing from our sportsmen one and all
And they could make no distinction right from Cork to Donegal
But we cannot grumble when we hear what Mister Wilson says
Of how many beasts they've slaughtered from the foot and mouth disease

Before I do lay down my pen, I'll say these few words more
May the lord protect our Irish soil and keep it from our shore
Our racehorses too will get a rest and our greyhounds we can't praise
Till we can keep old Ireland free from foot and mouth disease!

The suggested air was "The Bonny Boy".

Regards^^


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Subject: RE: BS: Foot & Mouth II
From: GUEST,Sooze (at work)
Date: 15 Mar 01 - 03:40 AM

All members of the NFU and MAFF should spend their next five incarnations as farm animals so they find out the meaning of the words humane and care. Oh - and if they need a triple by-pass op in the near future, I hope the surgeon will hose down his boots etc in the way demonstrated on all of our TV news reports before performing the sugery.


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Subject: RE: BS: Foot & Mouth II
From: Letty
Date: 15 Mar 01 - 07:10 AM

Grab wrote: there _is_ a cure - vaccination. But (a) it makes it difficult to export livestock, since tests can't tell the difference between vaccinated animals and ones with the "live" virus; and (b) it's expensive.

Yes, it's about time the pharmaceutical industry came up with a marker for the vaccin (one firm here in Holland promised it two years ago: pity they didn't speed it up).

It's a crying shame that we all bow to commerce so much that we let all these animals die and these farmers get bust, while there's a perfectly good cure. But the Dutch economy is so dependent on export, that it's not going to happen. As I understand it, the Argentinians DO vaccinate there livestock. Lucky cows.

Letty


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Subject: RE: BS: Foot & Mouth II
From: Troll
Date: 15 Mar 01 - 09:45 AM

The problem with compensation for the slaughtered animals is that money cannot replace the work of lifetimes spent in building up bloodlines.
The suicide rate surged among farmers during the 1967 outbreak. Confiscating guns at this point will probably save a few lives but to what end?
The farmers will have to start over from scratch. And where will they find breeding stock? Or, more properly, where will they find it at a price that they can afford and how will they survive until the herds are built up to profitable proportions again?
My friends on the Isle Of Man dread the East wind from Cumbria which you can see on a clear day. So far Man is clean but for how long?
With the ease of travel today, this could easily go worldwide. No more beef on the table.
Won't PETA and the militant vegitarians be pleased.

troll


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Subject: RE: BS: Foot & Mouth II
From: Mrrzy
Date: 15 Mar 01 - 09:54 AM

I guess I don't get something important here. I've read the original thread, and the blickied articles, but I can't help but keep wondering what the big deal is with this disease, it doesn't transmit to humans (which is the strongest governmental fear usually) - it seems only to make the animals uncomfortable. Why does that mean that they should all die? I'm not meaning to belittle, I just don't understand why the terrible fear of a disease that doesn't even kill the perissodactyls (I think that's the cloven-hoofed one, the other is artiodactyl) let alone the humans who eat the meat? I can understand the fear of BSE, who wants their brains turning into sponges, but blisters on the nipples? For this millions of animals must be destroyed, and the human endeavors right along with it? Is it really just that it's cheaper to kill them all than to take care of them while they're sick? And, no, I don't mean that we shouldn't worry about anything that doesn't directly affect us humans, I'm just wondering whom the governments are trying to protect, since usually their job is to protect (their) humans.


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Subject: RE: BS: Foot & Mouth II
From: Llanfair
Date: 15 Mar 01 - 10:14 AM

It's not the disease, it's the virulence of it. Unchecked, ALL cloven-hoofed animals will get it. They never recover fully, and don't thrive. That weakens their progeny, and turns what was a healthy, thriving "national" flock or herd, to a collection of weakly animals that are unable to make best use of their nourishment.
It is one of the most infectious diseases on the planet, and God help us if it mutates, as viruses do, to affect other animal species, including us. Then we will find out how uncomfortable blisters in the mouth and on the hands and feet are, and how well we recover.
Following confirmation of the case in Llanfair Caereinion, and suspicion that Welshpool market is a central point, the schools are closed till further notice.
Bron.


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Subject: RE: BS: Foot & Mouth II
From: SINSULL
Date: 15 Mar 01 - 10:54 AM

Argentina has reported cases. Several countries including the US are banning imports from it. There have been cases reported in the Middle East as well. McDonald's sales are way down - maybe some good will come from this after all.


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Subject: RE: BS: Foot & Mouth II
From: Greyeyes
Date: 15 Mar 01 - 01:54 PM

Mrrzy, imagine the pain and discomfort caused by one mouth ulcer, or a blister on your toe, and multiply it about a million times. It's not a few blisters on the nipples, it's hideous supurating sores in the mouth and around the hoof.A ministry vet examined a calf with F&M recently and it's tongue fell out. Most immature beasts die. Mature ones generally survive but are of no commercial value. Milk yield drops, they don't put on flesh weight efficiently. It's a harsh way to look at it but farming is a business. In the long run it makes more economic sense to slaughter ruthlessly, rather than risk a scenario like Llanfair describes, with every beast in the country, possibly Europe, affected.


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Subject: RE: BS: Foot & Mouth II
From: Llanfair
Date: 16 Mar 01 - 05:21 PM

There is a pyre burning on the hillside opposite my house. It has been burning almost all day. They closed the main A458 yesterday so that they could do the slaughtering, and today it was closed because of the smoke.
Everyone who lives here is subdued. It is one thing to see it on the telly, and quite another to know that animals are being slaughtered so close to home.
I want this to be over.
Bron.


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Subject: RE: BS: Foot & Mouth II
From: Lanfranc
Date: 16 Mar 01 - 06:37 PM

Sometimes I feel as if Stephen King has taken over the script for the entire world.

First BSE, now this. I have friends who are livestock farmers, and a friend who has a butchers shop and a meat processing business. All appear to be facing ruin or at least serious financial difficulty. As for the animals ...

There does not appear to be an end in sight, and I can think of nobody who places any credence in statements from MAFF or anyone in Government.

Any exultation by the militant vegetarian lobby should be deferred until we see what the effect of the heavy rains and snows of this winter on the fruit, vegetable and grain harvest might be.

The knock-on disruption to other parts of the economy looks likely to be pretty dire. Tourism is only one industry that is hurting already, more will follow.

Initially I was frustrated because access to my Sailing Club had been closed - now I'm getting seriously concerned about matters somewhat more weighty than my leisure activities.

We thought we were so clever and fortunate - do I hear any mutters of "hubris"?


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Subject: RE: BS: Foot & Mouth II
From: Rollo
Date: 16 Mar 01 - 08:30 PM

Today I met another group of people facing ruin from F&M - I visited a small circus.

Imagine a couple of families moving around with a worn-out tent and whimsy wagons, who allready have difficulties in earning their daily bread, not to speak of proper dental treatment or even new (and much-needed) equipment. An essencial part of their show are the animals - not some fattening livestock, which you can replace with new flock when the money from EU is coming in, but skilled arena animals, who have gained intensive training since they were little puppies. And allthough these animals will never be et so can without problems be vaccinated, for sure there is no money for this - the tent also needs mending to make sure the audience will not be soaked with rain, and even this couldn't be paid.

And they live by traveling from town to town, from country to country.

now THIS is what I call a catastropy.


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Subject: RE: BS: Foot & Mouth II
From: Julie B
Date: 22 Mar 01 - 05:02 AM

Re: The National Folk Festival at Sutton Bonington, near Loughborough, England, weekend of April 8th.

In the post this morning I received notification that the festival has been cancelled; quote from festival director John Heydon:

"I have now been advised that due to the Foot and Mouth epidemic, all conferences, and the National is considered a conference, on the Sutton Bonington Campus, have been cancelled until after Easter. In these circumstances, this year's festival cannot be held...I am proposing to ask the same guests to take part in next year's festival over the weekend 12th-14th April 2002. ...Some of the Irish and American contingent are committed to coming to the UK. Haddenham Ceilidhs has its normal ceilidh on Sat 7th April...attached to the [village] hall is a small room ideal for informal concerts. I intend asking all artists who were committed to the National for the weekend to consider coming out to Haddenham and having a small National 'cancelled' party".

See Foot and Mouth thread for more discussion on F&M.

Maybe I'm missing something here, but isn't it a little strange that events like folk festivals are forced to cancel to help 'contain the outbreak', while for horse racing meetings nationwide it's "business as usual"?


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Subject: RE: BS: Foot & Mouth II
From: Linda Kelly
Date: 22 Mar 01 - 05:29 AM

Horse racing sticks out like a sore thumb doesn't it. Given today is the start of the flat season has a lot to do with it I suppose. I do wish there was some responsible reporting by the media. We are continually filled with the admittedly tragic images of carcases being burnt in the fields and I am not for moment suggesting you've see one you've seen them all. what I am suggesting that news programmes could actually give us information on a local and national level which might assist us in making a judgement on which areas of the countryside are not accessible, if any and which are. It reminds me of the eclipse a year or so ago, when the media continually told us that the whole of Devon and Cornwall would be full and the roads one continual jam. what happened in reality is that it frightened everyone off and businesses lost a lot of money.


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Subject: RE: BS: Foot & Mouth II
From: nutty
Date: 22 Mar 01 - 05:52 AM

It's probably because Sutton Bonnington is an Agricultural College and the administration will be very sympathetic to farmer's and their problems


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Subject: RE: BS: Foot & Mouth II
From: Julie B
Date: 22 Mar 01 - 05:56 AM

Thanks for that info., Nutty. I don't feel quite so miffed now. Julie B


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Subject: RE: BS: Foot & Mouth II
From: Wolfgang
Date: 22 Mar 01 - 06:06 AM

The disease has yesterday arrived in the Netherlands and today in the Republic of Ireland. Our government tells us to expect the outbreak here as well any day soon.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: Foot & Mouth II
From: Grab
Date: 22 Mar 01 - 06:41 AM

Mrzzy, we all have to get our food from somewhere. As Llanfair and Greyeyes say, basically it stops the herd being usable for food. Dairy cattle never recover their milk yield, and beef cattle (and other animals raised for meat) don't put on weight properly. And it pretty much sterilises the herd: animals don't breed as much, and those that do, their offspring are sickly.

Now imagine that, uncontrolled. What happens to the world's food supplies when this goes down? A very scarey thought, especially if it reaches areas where they're still on subsistence farming...

AFAIK, no-one's tested to see whether animals eventually get immunity to it by natural means. The trouble is that even if they could, you'd then have to strike out several years of meat production, and no government can afford to support the entire agricultural industry in its country for several years.

Incidentally, NewScientist reported that there's a new drug concept coming around which might provide a new vaccine, but that's not coming out for several years yet.

Grab.


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Subject: RE: BS: Foot & Mouth II
From: SINSULL
Date: 22 Mar 01 - 08:59 AM

The Latest on Hoof and Mouth and now thay suspect Mad Cow in sheep in the US:
Foot-and-Mouth Disease Spreads to Ireland Reuters Mar 22 2001 7:28AM

DUBLIN (Reuters) - Ireland became on Thursday the fourth European country to fall victim to foot-and-mouth, suspending animal product exports while the continent braced for yet more outbreaks of the highly infectious disease. Irish Prime Minister Bertie Ahern said tests on tissue samples taken from sheep on a farm in north County Louth, near the border with Northern Ireland, had proved positive.

The samples were from animals on a farm situated within a 10-km exclusion zone placed around the holding in County Armagh where Northern Ireland's only outbreak of the disease was confirmed earlier this month.

All the sheep on the farm have been slaughtered.

In continental Europe, the Dutch launched new investigations after announcing on Wednesday that foot-and-mouth, which affects cloven-hoofed animals like cows and sheep, had hit three farms.

The Netherlands, which has the most intensive farming industry in Europe, still has raw memories of a devastating

outbreak of swine fever in 1997.

Dutch authorities said they were investigating four "strongly suspected" cases in the southern province of Brabant.

One was a slaughterhouse and the other three were farms, two of which had imported Irish calves via the foot-and-mouth affected French department of Mayenne, a spokeswoman for the Dutch agriculture ministry said.

"The Irish calves got off the truck in Mayenne and so the farms are under strong suspicion," a spokeswoman for the Dutch agriculture ministry told Reuters.

"OUT OF CONTROL"

In Britain, a top scientific adviser to the government said the foot-and-mouth epidemic there was out of control and could rage on for many more months.

"I think everybody is in agreement -- the government, the farming community and the independent scientific advice -- that this epidemic is not under control at the current point of time," said Professor Roy Anderson, an epidemiologist called in by the agriculture ministry to monitor the crisis.

Anderson told BBC television the epidemic was likely to continue for months -- possibly until August.

Forty new infected sites were found in Britain on Wednesday, bringing the total to 435 and showing the country was far from controlling the month-long epidemic that has paralyzed much of its countryside, from farming to the lucrative tourism industry.

The scale of the disaster was underscored by British figures showing more than 270,000 animals had been slaughtered because they were infected or as a precaution, and a further 130,000 were waiting to be killed.

Nearly 80,000 carcasses are piled up awaiting disposal, and giant pyres burn round the clock in infected areas. The disease causes mouth and foot blisters and severe weight loss in livestock.

The Netherlands plans to vaccinate animals as part of efforts to prevent the disease spreading -- a measure Britain and other countries have rejected on grounds of cost and that it would be only short-term.

GERMAN FEARS

The outbreak in the Netherlands stoked fears in neighboring Germany that foot-and-mouth was now an inevitability there too.

"We are staring like a dog at a snake and hope that we will be spared," said Uwe Bartels, farm minister for the region of Lower Saxony. But he admitted that hope was likely to be dashed.

"After foot-and-mouth was confirmed in the Netherlands, we must expect that it will also come to Lower Saxony,," Bartels told state radio NDR. "I think we cannot keep it away."

Irish Agriculture Minister Joe Walsh said he had ordered the suspension of animal product exports from the Irish republic, and that a ban on the export of live animals would be retained.

The Irish republic's agri-food sector accounts for 27 percent of the country's net earnings from trade.

The Dutch government has slapped an export ban on all meat, meat products and dairy products. It has also placed a three-day ban on feed and milk transportation across the country, extending an earlier six-mile limit.

It plans to cull 18,000 animals within a week to contain the outbreak, and will inoculate those animals that cannot be killed immediately to prevent the disease from spreading.

News of the Dutch outbreak sent pork prices sharply higher on the Chicago Mercantile Exchange on Wednesday.


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Subject: RE: BS: Foot & Mouth II
From: Wavestar
Date: 22 Mar 01 - 09:08 AM

So, on a selfish personal note, does anyone know what I can expect from customs of various countries flying from Edinburgh to Amsterdam to Boston? I'm told I'll be sprayed, especially my shoes, but I don't know if that will happen in both airports or just one... I'm in the middle of an apparently clean area here in St Andrews, the Scottish outbreaks have been further south and west, and I haven't travelled beyond Edinburgh... so will my shoes be dangerous if I take them to the states? Advice, please, form those in the know...

-J


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Subject: RE: BS: Foot & Mouth II
From: Jeri
Date: 22 Mar 01 - 09:53 AM

Information for travelers at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) website. There are other links there.

Restricted Products at the US Dep't of Agriculture Animal and Plant Inspection Service (USDA/APHIS).
Their main Foot and Mouth page - more links.

I'd predict that customs will ask if you're bringing any prohibited items, and may check your luggage for them. They'll probably also check your shoes and property for dirt. They'll probably ask if you've been to a farm, zoo, or other animal facilities in the 5 days before leaving.


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Subject: RE: BS: Foot & Mouth II
From: Jeri
Date: 22 Mar 01 - 10:20 AM

Well, I may have overdone it with the predictions. They may just ask what county you're coming from and then go into the usual routine.

Ministry of Agriculture Fisheries and Food - main website.

Their foot and mouth disease page

Ban on personal exports - pdf file - requires Adobe Acrobat. Basically says fresh meat, meat products (includes sandwiches, packed lunches), milk and mild products. I believe this is standard practice, and not related to this outbreak.


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Subject: RE: BS: Foot & Mouth II
From: Letty
Date: 23 Mar 01 - 06:45 AM

Wavestar - I've just been to New York from Amsterdam, and all they did was checking extra carefully with a sniffing dog (even apples were not admitted). And yes, there was a question about farms on the general "Are you a terrorist?" form (who makes up these questions? Do they expect anyone to admit they're planning to blow up things?).

Letty


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Subject: RE: BS: Foot & Mouth II
From: Morticia
Date: 23 Mar 01 - 02:27 PM

I've just come back from the Canary Islands, they made all UK passengers walk through disinfectant, they also sprayed our luggage so put anything fragile well to the inside.It didn't appear to stain but it certainly smelled.


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Subject: RE: BS: Foot & Mouth II
From: Hawker
Date: 27 Mar 01 - 07:26 PM

Today is a sad day for me.........
As I look across from my home to where the river Tamar divides Cornwall from Devon and beyond, I can see the latest pyre. Its smoke drifts heavenward with the souls of wasted livestock and I feel a sense of despair engulfing the village as the acrid smell of burning fur and flesh touches my nostrils. Herdicott, Clawton is 7 miles away yet it feels so much closer, its unbelieveable to think I can smell its pyre but there it is! It is like watching a flood slowly moving closer to your door, you try to keep it out, but you know that its inevitable, there is no escape. What a sad time this is, neighbouring farms who have to slaughter now are friends and relatives, so very, very sad.
Lucy


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Subject: RE: BS: Foot & Mouth II
From: Llanfair
Date: 28 Mar 01 - 05:27 AM

Lucy, I know how you feel, every time i see a column of smoke, my heart sinks, even though it might only be a bonfire.
I talked to two people who have smallholdings at the weekend. If this "firebreak" cull happens here, they will lose their few loved animals. One has angora goats, the other, jacob's sheep (the ones I had the fleeces from). Only a few, but they will have to go.
Bron.


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Subject: RE: BS: Foot & Mouth II
From: GUEST,Fibula Mattock
Date: 28 Mar 01 - 06:56 AM

My Other Half is working in Drogheda at the moment which is in Co. Louth where the first (and hopefully only) outbreak of foot-and-mouth has been found in the Republic of Ireland. Drogheda lies at the edge of Co. Louth and the River Boyne separates it from Co. Meath. The shops and supermarkets are all in the town - the Louth side of the bridges. He lives over the bridge on the Meath side. He said there are roadblocks across the bridges and cars are being searched. He overheard one woman in the supermarket say that she had meat taken off her when she tried to cross the bridge with it into Meath. I hope this stringency works.


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Subject: RE: BS: Foot & Mouth II
From: Hawker
Date: 29 Mar 01 - 04:46 PM

Pyre is still burning, a grim monument to the dead livestock, hearts are heavy and Lo! Mr Blair says we WELCOME you back to the countryside!
What a welcome!
Lucy


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Subject: RE: BS: Foot & Mouth II
From: nutty
Date: 29 Mar 01 - 05:01 PM

I watch the news with such a heavy heart ........ 20,000 sheep killed every day in Cumbria - including pregnant ewes and newly born lambs and they haven't started on the cattle yet

The joy has really gone out of Springtime

I was raised in the countryside and can't imagine how those communities are coping

It makes any problems I have seem trivial by comparison


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Subject: RE: BS: Foot & Mouth II
From: GUEST,a townie that cares
Date: 29 Mar 01 - 06:19 PM

My thoughts go out to all that are affected.


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Subject: RE: BS: Foot & Mouth II
From: BanjoRay
Date: 29 Mar 01 - 07:49 PM

Burning the dead carcasses can't be right, can it? You bung a dead sheep on a pyre it will heat up and probably explode, releasing the still cool liquids inside which rise to great heights as vapour, depositing what could well be still alive virus miles downwind.

The disease has spread much more severely than in '67 when the beasts were quickly put in lime pits and covered up. The spread can't be only due to the modern way in which animals are shipped around the country - the centres of disease are only in a few places instead of all over, and many places are still disease free.

If your flocks are within 20-30 miles of stricken beasts, they seem to stand a good chance of getting it, and they shouldn't with all the disinfectant precautions and movement stoppages. I think it must be the fires!

What do you think?

Ray


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Subject: RE: BS: Foot & Mouth II
From: GUEST,a townie that cares
Date: 30 Mar 01 - 09:18 PM

Banjo Ray: I think you might be right on that one.


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Subject: RE: BS: Foot & Mouth II
From: Greyeyes
Date: 31 Mar 01 - 09:28 AM

The disinfectant and movement stoppage does not prevent the airborne infection, which is precisely what makes the disease so hard to control. The temperatures reached by the burning pyres are sufficient to kill the virus.

The key word in BanjoRay's comparison with '67 is "quickly". This time slaughtered animals have been left rotting for days before the carcasses are disposed of. Largely because MAFF refused to admit the problem was out of control. There weren't enough vets to diagnose the disease, there weren't enough slaughtermen to deal with the diagnosed beasts, and the army should have been used right from the beginning to coordinate the disposal of the carcasses.


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Subject: RE: BS: Foot & Mouth II
From: BanjoRay
Date: 31 Mar 01 - 06:30 PM

Greyeyes says "The temperatures reached by the burning pyres are sufficient to kill the virus". Yes, I'm sure they would if all the fluids within a carcase are allowed to reach those temparatures. Vapour would leave the internal relatively cool parts via heat generated cracks in the body. I have never heard of any research done to verify the efficacy of the pyre method - It's just assumed to work.

I was a British Coal Scientist whose main job was reproducing underground fire conditions in an experimental simulated mine roadway built at a laboratory. We could never assume anything worked without trying it and examining the effects. That setup would have been perfect for building a pyre at one end, burning a carcase containing a harmless virus and detecting its presence and life at the downwind end, using different known wind speeds.

Ray


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Subject: RE: BS: Foot & Mouth II
From: Art Thieme
Date: 02 Apr 01 - 10:48 PM

Good folks, our hearts go out to you from here in the states where we have found one case of it on our East coast I just heard.

Here's a bit of a tale:

In 1961, when I was 20 years old, I taped recorded an old man, 93 year old Paul Durst -- in Chicago. He was a hobo fiddler who led an extraordinary life. Born in 1868, his parents had come to America in 1848 from Switzerland and settled in the state of Wisconsin because it reminded them of home. Paul made his way around the USA as a hobo and a fiddler and working the various crops. I've talked about Paul Durst in other threads but one of the things he had done was as follows:

Paul joined the Buffalo Bill Wild West Show somewhere around 1880-1890 and traveled to Europe (Germany) to do shows. When there, the cattle with the show were found to be infected with Hoof And Mouth Disease and all of Buffalo Bill Cody's animals had to be slaughtered. Of course, this was devastating to the show. Bill Cody made a deal with a freighter line to bring all his people back to the U.S.A. in the empty hold of a steamer. The trip took forever according to Paul.

Later, I read in a book somewhere that Bill Cody, on returning home, had to be refinanced by another great showman, the circus mogul P.T. Barnum, who got him up and running again.

Art Thieme


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Subject: RE: BS: Foot & Mouth II
From: Jeri
Date: 03 Apr 01 - 09:05 AM

USDA site on FMD

Art, there were suspected cases in North Carolina, but they tested negative for the disease. Press release from 31 Mar is here. There may be some later news I haven't heard, but I looked for information and couldn't find anything.

I see the MAFF is now considering vaccination in heavily infected areas and buffer zones between infected and disease free areas.


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Subject: RE: BS: Foot & Mouth II
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Apr 01 - 09:15 AM

Some European countries are already vaccinating, in the UK the farmers are resisting strongly. I'm not sure why. There is a suggestion that they are confusing routine vaccination (which would affect the export market) with the buffering vaccination Jeri mentions. It has really got to the stage now where something radical has to be done to get the disease under control. I'm not sure why it is taking them so long to come round to vaccination, it seems inevitable to me. Thanks for your concern Art.


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Subject: RE: BS: Foot & Mouth II
From: GUEST,Greyeyes
Date: 03 Apr 01 - 09:15 AM

Sorry, that was me, at work.


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Subject: RE: BS: Foot & Mouth II
From: GUEST,Willa
Date: 03 Apr 01 - 03:35 PM

Don't want to be accused of scaring away visitors, so to those of you outside the UK; Country house hotels, seaside resorts, visitor attractions, pubs and restuarants are still open and need your trade. You cannot catch foot and mouth.
Tune: Bonny at morn
No cows in the meadow, no lambs to be born
The flames light the skyline from dusk until dawn
Repeat first two lines

Chorus
Sleepless at night, dreading each morn
The flames light the skyline from dusk until dawn
The valley is silent, the farmyard is still
And only the smoke moves upon the far hill

Marooned,in isolation, our hopes are all dashed
The work of generations is all turned to ash

New rules and regulations, when will they ever learn
They hinder our efforts at every turn

We're all laid idle, and where shall we turn
The lad cannot work and the lass cannot earn


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Subject: RE: BS: Foot & Mouth II
From: Llanfair
Date: 03 Apr 01 - 04:53 PM

There are a lot of cases around Welshpool now, and the train passed a pyre on my way home today. No cases here in the last few days.
The vaccination makes the meat unusable for human consumption, because it is no longer considered disease free.
Bron.


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Subject: RE: BS: Foot & Mouth II
From: Greyeyes
Date: 03 Apr 01 - 05:05 PM

That's not my understanding Bron. It's unexportable, but the meat and the milk are consumable, and the offspring are disease free. Even if the vaccinated animals are later slaughtered it seems preferable, just to get the thing under control.


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Subject: RE: BS: Foot & Mouth II
From: Llanfair
Date: 04 Apr 01 - 03:19 AM

I must have got it wrong. That was my understanding from the radio.
If the government dither about any longer, the disease will run it's course anyway!! They were saying that there were less confirmations over the weekend, though I haven't checked it out yet.
Bron.


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Subject: RE: BS: Foot & Mouth II
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 04 Apr 01 - 03:42 PM

Less confirmations ? It was 963 on Tuesday, today it hit the 1000 mark, I don't count that as less.....

LTS


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Subject: RE: BS: Foot & Mouth II
From: Greyeyes
Date: 04 Apr 01 - 03:59 PM

It's not that there are fewer Liz, it's that the number each day is no longer rising, so it looks as though it may have reached a plateau. There's still a long way to go, but the epedemiologists who are monitoring the epidemic seem hopeful that things are finally coming under control. I still think they should vaccinate.


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Subject: RE: BS: Foot & Mouth II
From: P Mitchell@work
Date: 06 Jun 01 - 01:20 PM

Sorry to open this up again, but the issue hasn't really gone away in various parts of this country. I have received a message from a very sensible friend, not given to conspiracy theories or the like... part of it reads...

"....But now > we know there are 300 lorries at Hatherleigh, all > disinfected, re-registered and painted, lined up and > waiting for something, leave cancelled from June 8th - > August 1st for MAFF, army, ministry vets and police who are > on standby, a pool of licenced rifle marksmen recruited who > have been issued with K's of rounds of ammo (normal amount > allowed at any one time - 100 to 150!) one of whom it was > verified had been asked to sign the OS act. Local belief > is that the day after the election, they will all be > ordered to kill-out Dartmoor and Exmoor completely, where > it is now in the red deer."

It's kind of interesting to me, and just in case anything comes to pass that looks like this mass cull of deer, be sure you heard it here first(ish).

Paul.


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Subject: RE: BS: Foot & Mouth II
From: vectis
Date: 06 Jun 01 - 03:14 PM

In Devon there has been mass accumulations of materials for burning and also old burial pits being investigated. They also believe that there is going to be a large amount of MAFF and army activity after the election.
So P. Mitchell there are many down in the west country that would agree with you. I just hope we're wrong and it's merely paranoia.


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Subject: RE: BS: Foot & Mouth II
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 06 Jun 01 - 08:52 PM

I dont think its paranoia, my friends brother is in the army and said something very similar.I dont trust the goverment at all.this is one of the reasons I decided to cut down on meat,I have worked in the meat industry for a few years,so its not for animal rights reasons,but I dont want to start all that again.john


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Subject: RE: BS: Foot & Mouth II
From: Llanfair
Date: 07 Jun 01 - 02:53 AM

It's probably got nothing to do with what you are telling us, but I've seen several bouts of MAFF activity here in the past week. The last reported case was weeks ago, and the burning and burying all done.
I've got a bad feeling about this.
Bron.


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Subject: RE: BS: Foot & Mouth II
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Jun 01 - 03:14 PM

refresh


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Subject: RE: BS: Foot & Mouth II
From: Gervase
Date: 08 Jun 01 - 05:10 AM

This has been whistling round the web for the past few weeks (One rumour said that the cull was being planned to cut sheep and cattle numbers by half to enforce some Brussels dictat!). However, as far as I can gather from friends in MAFF and the MoD, it is complete cobblers - a rural myth, if you like, as opposed to an urban myth.
Certainly the MoD, in conjunction with MAFF, is now putting into effect a series of SOPs for dealing with any future outbreaks, including paper exercises in logistics, but I very much doubt that a mass, pre-emptive cull is planned.
That's not to say that the government didn't tell a pile of porkies when it said the FMD was licked, as the Yorkshire eruption demonstrates.
My own feeling over governmental matters is that cock-up rather than conspiracy is the order of the day. That's not to say that once something's been comprehensively cocked up there won't be a conspiracy to exculpate the guilty parties.


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Subject: RE: BS: Foot & Mouth II
From: John Routledge
Date: 08 Jun 01 - 06:15 AM

Some paths to the tops of some of the high fells in the Lake District are shortly to be opened. A minor chink in the Black Heavy Curtain. John


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Subject: RE: BS: Foot & Mouth II
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Aug 01 - 03:00 PM

Still around.
Millions more lambs could face cull (Reuters) Thursday August 2, 10:59 AM LONDON (Reuters) - The government is expected to stick to its policy of mass slaughter to combat the virulent foot-and-mouth livestock disease and announce the cull of 1.5 million healthy lambs later today.


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Subject: RE: BS: Foot & Mouth II
From: Linda Kelly
Date: 02 Aug 01 - 06:03 PM

Bizzarre isn't it that the cull of these healthy lambs is not due to disease, but because they cannot be exported. These are small lambs which provide continental cuts of meat. They will be slaughtered for sale in the shops but the retail providers are unsure that the cuts of meat they provide will sell.There was a splendid interview by the deputy of the farmers union with Harry Gration from Look North today. Basically he told Harry and the rest of the media to get a life, that restrictions were being lifted in large areas of the country includsing Devon and that the negative reporting by the media was causing real damage.When Harry made the point about vaccinating pigs in N Yorks - this guy basically called him an idiot and told him that vaccination was only used as a means to clow down the rate of culling and did not mean livestock would be saved. Harry cut the interview short because this guy was really having a go -but it was nicer to hear facts for once and not media splurge.


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