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Welcome new mudcatter MAV

flattop 11 Mar 01 - 03:59 PM
CarolC 11 Mar 01 - 04:16 PM
SINSULL 11 Mar 01 - 04:16 PM
hesperis 11 Mar 01 - 04:44 PM
wdyat12 11 Mar 01 - 04:49 PM
wysiwyg 11 Mar 01 - 05:24 PM
Greg F. 11 Mar 01 - 05:25 PM
Amos 11 Mar 01 - 05:30 PM
wysiwyg 11 Mar 01 - 05:38 PM
Greg F. 11 Mar 01 - 06:12 PM
Rick Fielding 11 Mar 01 - 06:26 PM
wysiwyg 11 Mar 01 - 06:29 PM
Greg F. 11 Mar 01 - 08:06 PM
CarolC 11 Mar 01 - 08:17 PM
SINSULL 11 Mar 01 - 08:43 PM
flattop 11 Mar 01 - 08:55 PM
flattop 11 Mar 01 - 08:58 PM
catspaw49 11 Mar 01 - 09:11 PM
Bill D 11 Mar 01 - 09:19 PM
flattop 11 Mar 01 - 09:22 PM
catspaw49 11 Mar 01 - 09:28 PM
Greg F. 11 Mar 01 - 10:21 PM
CarolC 11 Mar 01 - 10:36 PM
wysiwyg 11 Mar 01 - 11:55 PM
Ebbie 12 Mar 01 - 12:19 AM
Little Hawk 12 Mar 01 - 12:45 AM
CarolC 12 Mar 01 - 12:46 AM
wysiwyg 12 Mar 01 - 12:51 AM
CarolC 12 Mar 01 - 01:04 AM
katlaughing 12 Mar 01 - 01:35 AM
wysiwyg 12 Mar 01 - 01:45 AM
Greg F. 12 Mar 01 - 07:46 AM
RichM 12 Mar 01 - 08:31 AM
mousethief 12 Mar 01 - 11:49 AM
Little Hawk 12 Mar 01 - 12:08 PM
Skeptic 12 Mar 01 - 12:23 PM
GUEST,marty D 12 Mar 01 - 12:29 PM
wysiwyg 12 Mar 01 - 12:32 PM
Little Hawk 12 Mar 01 - 12:43 PM
Ebbie 12 Mar 01 - 12:52 PM
katlaughing 12 Mar 01 - 01:00 PM
Chanteyranger 12 Mar 01 - 01:50 PM
Little Hawk 12 Mar 01 - 01:58 PM
Clinton Hammond 12 Mar 01 - 02:02 PM
Little Hawk 12 Mar 01 - 02:10 PM
Clinton Hammond 12 Mar 01 - 02:21 PM
CarolC 12 Mar 01 - 02:24 PM
Little Hawk 12 Mar 01 - 02:27 PM
wysiwyg 12 Mar 01 - 02:30 PM
beachcomber 12 Mar 01 - 04:19 PM
CarolC 12 Mar 01 - 04:28 PM
Rick Fielding 12 Mar 01 - 04:32 PM
kimmers 12 Mar 01 - 04:37 PM
catspaw49 12 Mar 01 - 04:42 PM
Rick Fielding 12 Mar 01 - 04:44 PM
Jim the Bart 12 Mar 01 - 04:45 PM
kimmers 12 Mar 01 - 05:05 PM
catspaw49 12 Mar 01 - 05:44 PM
Greg F. 12 Mar 01 - 06:27 PM
Little Hawk 12 Mar 01 - 06:47 PM
CarolC 12 Mar 01 - 08:21 PM
Greg F. 12 Mar 01 - 09:42 PM
CarolC 12 Mar 01 - 10:27 PM
flattop 12 Mar 01 - 10:55 PM
Greg F. 13 Mar 01 - 07:08 AM
catspaw49 13 Mar 01 - 07:17 AM
CarolC 13 Mar 01 - 12:07 PM
GUEST,Carol's Friend Don 13 Mar 01 - 12:17 PM
Ebbie 13 Mar 01 - 12:19 PM
Greg F. 13 Mar 01 - 12:31 PM
GUEST,Carol's Friend Don 13 Mar 01 - 12:40 PM
CarolC 13 Mar 01 - 12:50 PM
Greg F. 13 Mar 01 - 12:55 PM
Skeptic 13 Mar 01 - 12:58 PM
CarolC 13 Mar 01 - 03:15 PM
Rick Fielding 13 Mar 01 - 04:43 PM
SINSULL 13 Mar 01 - 04:49 PM
Little Hawk 13 Mar 01 - 09:17 PM
Little Hawk 13 Mar 01 - 09:52 PM
MAV 14 Mar 01 - 01:53 AM
wdyat12 14 Mar 01 - 03:58 AM
GUEST,The Yank 14 Mar 01 - 08:24 AM
SINSULL 14 Mar 01 - 08:35 AM
flattop 14 Mar 01 - 08:54 AM
mousethief 14 Mar 01 - 11:18 AM
flattop 14 Mar 01 - 11:34 AM
mousethief 14 Mar 01 - 11:39 AM
Wesley S 14 Mar 01 - 11:53 AM
Sarah2 14 Mar 01 - 04:01 PM
Little Hawk 14 Mar 01 - 04:16 PM
Lonesome EJ 14 Mar 01 - 04:34 PM
mousethief 14 Mar 01 - 04:37 PM
Lonesome EJ 14 Mar 01 - 04:44 PM
mousethief 14 Mar 01 - 04:45 PM
GUEST, - Hysterion 14 Mar 01 - 04:55 PM
MAV 14 Mar 01 - 05:01 PM
mousethief 14 Mar 01 - 05:02 PM
Greg F. 14 Mar 01 - 05:09 PM
Ebbie 14 Mar 01 - 05:14 PM
Wesley S 14 Mar 01 - 05:21 PM
Matt_R 14 Mar 01 - 05:22 PM
Matt_R 14 Mar 01 - 05:29 PM
katlaughing 14 Mar 01 - 05:32 PM
Pol Pot 14 Mar 01 - 05:33 PM
Matt_R 14 Mar 01 - 05:37 PM
katlaughing 14 Mar 01 - 05:42 PM
Wesley S 14 Mar 01 - 05:55 PM
Matt_R 14 Mar 01 - 06:09 PM
Little Hawk 14 Mar 01 - 06:13 PM
MAV 14 Mar 01 - 06:23 PM
katlaughing 14 Mar 01 - 06:27 PM
Greg F. 14 Mar 01 - 06:31 PM
MAV 14 Mar 01 - 06:32 PM
Matt_R 14 Mar 01 - 06:45 PM
Joe Offer 14 Mar 01 - 07:08 PM
SINSULL 14 Mar 01 - 07:18 PM
gnu 14 Mar 01 - 07:25 PM
Jeri 14 Mar 01 - 07:25 PM
Justa Picker 14 Mar 01 - 07:31 PM
Lonesome EJ 14 Mar 01 - 07:33 PM
GUEST,Sarah2 (at work) 14 Mar 01 - 08:14 PM
Joe Offer 14 Mar 01 - 08:17 PM
SINSULL 14 Mar 01 - 08:34 PM
Skeptic 14 Mar 01 - 08:38 PM
flattop 14 Mar 01 - 08:39 PM
GUEST,Stackley 14 Mar 01 - 08:42 PM
CarolC 14 Mar 01 - 08:51 PM
GUEST,Sarah2 (at work) 14 Mar 01 - 11:57 PM
GUEST,MAV 02 Aug 11 - 03:06 PM
GUEST,999 02 Aug 11 - 04:34 PM
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Subject: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: flattop
Date: 11 Mar 01 - 03:59 PM

Welcome MAV.

Although a lefty, George Orwell pointed out that no kid likes to play with the tin pacifists.

I believe you have a role to play on mudcat MAV and that your are off to a good start. Your debating pals probably don't want to admit that they need you but they'd be lost without your input.


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: CarolC
Date: 11 Mar 01 - 04:16 PM

Welcome to the Mudcat, MAV!

You should check out my friend "GUEST, Carol's friend Don". He's your kind of guy. (I think he's the reincarnation of General Patton.)

Carol


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: SINSULL
Date: 11 Mar 01 - 04:16 PM

MAV is no longer a "guest"? Good for you. Welcome. And here's to some long, spirited, friendly debates.


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: hesperis
Date: 11 Mar 01 - 04:44 PM

Hi! Welcome to the 'Cat!

I tend to stay out of the political threads, so I probably won't see you around much, but have fun!

~*sirepseh*~


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: wdyat12
Date: 11 Mar 01 - 04:49 PM

Welcome MAV!

I can't wait for you to make mincemeat out of me.

wdyat12


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: wysiwyg
Date: 11 Mar 01 - 05:24 PM

MAV, welcome to the Mudcat. Now, bear in mind please, that not everyone has studied up on the finer points of your style. Nor does everyone here appreciate the approach that has worked so well for you in the whacked threads. I welcome you, and I hope you aren't a one-trick pony.

So I hope you'll introduce yourself as you'd like to be known among us, please-- this thread is you chance to let us see the Real You.

F'rinstance, whassup with you and music?

~S~


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: Greg F.
Date: 11 Mar 01 - 05:25 PM

This obnoxious racist bigot piece of crap should be about as welcome as a fart at a christening. Enen tolerance should have a limit. Pretty disappointing, gang.

Best, Greg


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: Amos
Date: 11 Mar 01 - 05:30 PM

It's okay -- Greg is really MAV trolling in disguise...right?


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: wysiwyg
Date: 11 Mar 01 - 05:38 PM

Greg, sometimes you have to let an offender in to be close enough to help him change. Mudcat is too positive to be rocked too hard by one person's emanations... it will probably affect him more than he, it. Why else would he keep coming back after all? Musta seem something good. That's enough of a start for me.

Racist, huh? I wish I were black; I'd go love his socks off. Maybe I can pretend. Why not; I was an honorary man for the time I led the Allies of Men support group.

MAV... don't forget to breathe, now.

~Susan


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: Greg F.
Date: 11 Mar 01 - 06:12 PM

Not hardly, Amos- been around a long time before that piece of garbage showed up, and a while before you, as well.  ;-)   And I take it as a pretty serious insult to be connected with it in any way.

Susan, you've got to be pretty naive to ask why he keeps coming back- he'a a shit-stirrer for God's sake. You can Play Pretend all you want- but in the real world your love 'em approach wouldn't have changed Mengele & it won't change this jackass either.

Best, Greg


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 11 Mar 01 - 06:26 PM

I haven't had one complaint about his MUSIC posts.

Rick


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: wysiwyg
Date: 11 Mar 01 - 06:29 PM

Greg, I live in the Real World. I only apply here what I know of my own experience-- not always as successfully as in 3D, because I am still learning the mediuum, but the medium is still new to me, so who knows?

I pick who to deal with pretty carefully too. It takes a commitment. Some people look like shit-stirrers but are actually after something else. Oh I've been wrong a time or two, and cut bait, so to speak, but not often.

What I saw in the brief time I spent in the early Bushwacked series was that if expected to actually THINK, MAV could converse. Not nicely, but converse. Feel free to write if you want to see this more clearly.

(Click HERE to e-mail me.)

~S~


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: Greg F.
Date: 11 Mar 01 - 08:06 PM

Feel free to write if you want to see this more clearly.

I do SO appreciate, Sue, being patronized by someone who makes a positive choice to live in la-la land. I neither want nor require anything from you in ANY sense. It is equally valid that people who look like like "something else" to you are in reality shit-stirrers.

I dunno, Rick- wasn't aware it HAD any music posts, but even so they don't change its other ravings. Hitler was kind to dogs, and all. So what?

Best, Greg


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: CarolC
Date: 11 Mar 01 - 08:17 PM

Wow, Greg F.

I can certainly understand how you might feel the way you do. But if MAV is a shit stirrer, what does that make the people who allow themselves to get stirred up by him? It just looks to me like that particular situation is a two way street. I've seen posters on those threads bait MAV to come back so they can fight with him some more. I think if they didn't do that, he would get bored and leave. Just my opinion. Please be gentle with me.

Carol


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: SINSULL
Date: 11 Mar 01 - 08:43 PM

Susan - "help him change"???? My experience has been that these political discussion threads, at best, get people to listen and maybe understand or respect opposing opinions but "help him change" is (I don't mean to insult you) insulting and maybe a little naive.

Greg F.- you were a Mudcat member long before I came along. Your posts have always been informative, logical, humorous,etc. I see MAV baiting and hoping for an argument. Maybe meeting Uncle Jacques, who introduced MAV to Mudcat, colors my perception. UJ is a gentle soul at heart. I have gone back and read through MAV's postings - a lot of anger and name calling but I don't see evil personified. What am I missing????


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: flattop
Date: 11 Mar 01 - 08:55 PM

What did I start here before I went for a nap?

I have not seen racist posts from MAV. Obnoxious, opinionated, yes, but not racist. I'm not saying they don't exist. I only read tiny bits of the argumentative threads.

Should we stop talking to someone because they are obnoxious, racist, and bigoted. Perhaps we each have to decide for ourselves. I tend to keep talking to people who don't share my opinions. I'd have no one to talk to except myself if I didn't. I even talk to Praise who told me she'd cut me off if I started a thread called the mudcat buffet.


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: flattop
Date: 11 Mar 01 - 08:58 PM

And who could object to a fart at a christening if its done with good taste?


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: catspaw49
Date: 11 Mar 01 - 09:11 PM

Hi Greg....just arrived for a moment this evening, but you know how I feel........and you're right. Rick sees no problem with his MUSIC posts because Rick knows that MAV HAS NO MUSIC POSTS!

Sorry Gang, but I couldn't work up fart for him....he's that worthless to me. Bigoted...Rascist....oh, yeah................

Feel free to enjoy his company, but when the snake bites, remember, after all, it IS a snake.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: Bill D
Date: 11 Mar 01 - 09:19 PM

careful, folks...we have had a quiet period here for a bit..let's not call names in public, or we'll be back to more flame wars...

I DO wish MAV and those who regularly debate him would take it to another site or some newsgroup,,,but...*sigh*,,,Max has made it SO easy here to follow and trade opinions.....


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: flattop
Date: 11 Mar 01 - 09:22 PM

Spaw's post suggests that MAV may also be a powerful anti-flatulant. Now there's a socially relevant role for a righwinger.


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: catspaw49
Date: 11 Mar 01 - 09:28 PM

Bill, I agree and I have quit having any input on that thread. We have a few people who enjoy him as a foil and that's fine. Uncle Jacque is fine if Sinsull says so and I know he's a fine musician. As long as MAV plays on his thread he bothers me not a bit, but let's know full well what he is.......and about that there is no mistake.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: Greg F.
Date: 11 Mar 01 - 10:21 PM

I've seen posters on those threads bait MAV to come back so they can fight with him some more. I think if they didn't do that, he would get bored and leave.

Carol, you're almost 100% correct.  ;-)  I too wish the MAV-baiters would bugger off & have said so before now- why encourage him? It isn't informative and it sure as hell isn't entertaining. But I don't think ignoring him would necessarily cause him to leave- he enjoys being a pain in the ass too much, plus it's hard for someone deluded enough to believe he has all the answers to be quiet.

Sinsull- 'Spaw has done a pretty good job of pointing out some of his more atrocious sentiments in a prior thread or two- too tired at this point to dig 'em up now. Maybe ma¤ana, if I get a chance. Or if 'Spaw sees this first, maybe he'll 'clicky' them.

Best, Greg


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: CarolC
Date: 11 Mar 01 - 10:36 PM

It isn't informative and it sure as hell isn't entertaining.

--Greg F.

I have to agree with you on that one, Greg.

Carol


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: wysiwyg
Date: 11 Mar 01 - 11:55 PM

Greg and Sinsull, you have both taken what I said at a considerable slant not in my mind or heart. Hey, whatever. See what you like. Why I changed my name.

Come on over and run my life and my head too since you think you know what's in 'em? No? OK then. Excuse me for having some idea what I think and know, what I live, sheeshe.

Funny I don't see MAV in here stirring up any trouble, hmmm.

Great thread flattop. Now you got everybody fighting. What a surprise.

~Girlmudgeon


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: Ebbie
Date: 12 Mar 01 - 12:19 AM

Should we stop talking to someone because they are obnoxious, racist, and bigoted.

We have a choice, I suppose. Personally, if a person who talks like mav were in my home I would get him put out on the street bodily, if need be. And that would be true even if he were interested in music, which this man is not. I'm not interested in having someone like that in my life.

I disagree that he wouldn't go away if he were ignored. He might spit and sputter and vomit and fume and get even more hateful for awhile- but I believe he would go. We've never been able to resist his hamhanded bludgeoning, so we will probably never know.

There are people who claim that they do this kind of activity just for fun- implying that we don't have senses of humor. A lucky few come to realize that it's not even related to fun, that it's nasty stuff.

The only way that mav will make me happy is if he changs his name here and comes back as a reasonable, decent human being.

FWIW

Ebbie


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Mar 01 - 12:45 AM

My goodness! What a fuss.

- LH


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: CarolC
Date: 12 Mar 01 - 12:46 AM

Is it your intention to come across as sounding vindictive, Susan?


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: wysiwyg
Date: 12 Mar 01 - 12:51 AM

No, Carol; did you take something I said personally, though I had addressed no comment to you?

~S~


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: CarolC
Date: 12 Mar 01 - 01:04 AM

No, Susan, I haven't taken anything you said personally. As you said, you have not addressed any comments to me.


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: katlaughing
Date: 12 Mar 01 - 01:35 AM

Greg F, Spaw, I am with you. When I started the first Bushwhacked thread it was out of anguish for what was happening to our country and women's rights. I have respect for some of the posters who have kept up a lively debate and worked hard to counter the spew of mav, but I also regret those threads going on and on with nary a mention of music, except in a few instances. At least with most BS threads we do eventually get around to music. I would not put out a welcome mat for someone like mav, at my home, why should we here? And, that is rhetorical without any need of explanation for any self-appointed goody-two shoes sticking their fingers in every pot.

kat


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: wysiwyg
Date: 12 Mar 01 - 01:45 AM

What a nice, nice bunch of people we have here!

~S~


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: Greg F.
Date: 12 Mar 01 - 07:46 AM

Kat, not to worry about "Bushwacked". The "BS" threads are clearly marked in most cases so they can be avoided by those who wish to- tho I'd prefer a "NM" [Non-Music] prefix as most not tainted by 'certain herin unnamed idiots' are FAR from bulls**t, serve a useful purpose, and discuss important issues, IMNSHO. I show up less frequently on the music threads because I learn more from them than I usually have to contribute; that doesn't mean I don't READ them.

There is a difference between expressing an opinion forcefully and being a total- what was that term from some months back?... F**kwit ! I think covers it.

Check THIS out- it'll take your mind off the Adolph Eichman Brigade Members.....  ;-)

Best, Greg


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: RichM
Date: 12 Mar 01 - 08:31 AM

Well, the thread isn't titled "BS"...maybe it should be changed?


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: mousethief
Date: 12 Mar 01 - 11:49 AM

Even nice people can be pushed too far, Susan. Catch a clue, babe. You can only stir shit for so long before you start to turn people WAY off. Mav has more than passed this line. Your additions to this thread haven't helped us love him any more.

You may put up with a fart at a christening. You don't welcome it, and you sure as hell don't invite it to the punch-bowl.


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Mar 01 - 12:08 PM

Well, it can be an interesting experience talking to and listening to people who live in a completely different mindset from your own...and not judging them in the process, even if they are inclined to judge you.

Then too, everyone seems to thoroughly enjoy having certain other folks to feel righteously superior to (I know I do! Ha! Ha!), and MAV has provided himself generously (if unwittingly) as just such a foil for those who utterly detest his kind of attitudes on things. He gives them someone to hate and castigate...someone to vilify and ostracize. I'm sure this is emotionally quite gratifying for them, so they should perhaps thank MAV for having given them the opportunity, and they probably would, if not for the fact that they enjoy hating him so much that thanking him would seem like sacrilege.

By the way, lest you misunderstand me, I disagree with most of MAV's rationale on most things, most of the time.

However, it's clear to me that like almost all other people he is defending what he thinks is right, proper, fair, responsible, and just.

That's what's so interesting about it.

To simply label him a "racist" is about as pointless as him labelling you a "communist", or an SLC, or whatever. While you are labelling MAV a racist, he is labelling someone else a racist. Obviously, you agree on one thing...it's bad to be a racist! Pretty ironical.

If his comments truly upset you, you can always just ignore them. I ignore certain people...like angry drunks, for example. I just avoid them. That doesn't cause them or me any problem.

- LH


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: Skeptic
Date: 12 Mar 01 - 12:23 PM

The simple answer to those who are disturbed by Mav's views is don't read them. His views are not unique, either to Mudcat or the country. He does tend to get more spirited than some in his defense, but then that's true of most people when our sacred cows are jabbed, as witness some of the responses to his posts

While I wish I could share the certainty some seem to have about the absolute rightness of thier beliefs, as my sign-on implies, there is always room to question.

I followed an dcontributed to Mav's political postings from the beginning and can't really say who started "flaming". It looks like Mav made some inflammatory statements that may or may not have been meant as such, people took offense, decided it ws flaming which it may have been) and flamed, Mav flamed back and away it went.

May I humbly (yeah, right) suggest a status quo antebellum?

And leave you with this thought:

Those who begin coercive elimination of dissent soon find themselves exterminating dissenters. Compulsory unification of opinion achieves only the unanimity of the graveyard. Justice Robert Jackson Barnette vs West Virgina, 1943

A sentiment Max seems to have taken to heart.

Regards

John


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: GUEST,marty D
Date: 12 Mar 01 - 12:29 PM

All right, so I'm not an "every day" Mudcatter (mostly because of work) but it still seems to me that to warrent a "welcome" thread, a Mudcatter should demonstrate that they have even a passing interest in folk music, or common courtesy for that matter, as opposed to simply an ideology. Or is that simply an outmoded concept here these days?

Martin


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: wysiwyg
Date: 12 Mar 01 - 12:32 PM

Alex, the only clue I caught off this thread is that some people who decry MAV's meanness can be pretty mean themselves, and that a number of people have suggested to me how I should think. I think I will form my own opinion of MAV if I have the opportunity to get to know him. I don't recall suggesting anyone else do anything otherwise.

~S~


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Mar 01 - 12:43 PM

Martin - That's certainly one way of looking at it. Whenever we get into whether people "should" or "should not" do this or that, then we're trying to get them to live up to our own standards, which probably won't happen a lot of the time. It can be pretty frustrating, to say the least, when you are waiting for others to behave the way you think they "should".

If the forum had a definite rule about that, then okay, but then it would probably not be as interesting a forum as it is now.

I guess maybe you could ask flattop why he started this welcome thread.

- LH


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: Ebbie
Date: 12 Mar 01 - 12:52 PM

Little Hawk, if this were a political forum, I would totally agree with you. It isn't and I don't.

Ebbie


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: katlaughing
Date: 12 Mar 01 - 01:00 PM

I agree, Ebbie. I've not seen anything at all, as Spaw pointed out, showing that mav has any interest in the music which brought this community together in the first place.


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: Chanteyranger
Date: 12 Mar 01 - 01:50 PM

MAV - tell us: What brings you to the Mudcat Cafe? What are your musical interests? Inquiring minds want to know. My suspicion is that the only reason you're here is because you enjoy going into political battle with a group of people you suspect are mostly from the leftish persuasion (of which, BTW, I'm not). You are free to do so, I'm free to ignore the political threads, but I think it's completely inapropriate for you to use this sight if that is your ONLY purpose here. (as if that'll persuade you not to - but I'm getting my two cents worth in here just the same) Again, though, if you do have folk/trad/blues musical interests and want to share them, or ask for info, you've got a great resource at the MC.

-chanteyranger


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Mar 01 - 01:58 PM

Ebbie and Kat - Yup. I understand exactly how you feel about it. I think MAV just got caught up in the "heat of the action", probably...but I may be wrong. Seems to me he said something about music on a couple of occasions, but I'm not gonna wade through all those old threads to see if that's the case at this point.

- LH


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Subject: Who's this MAV??
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 12 Mar 01 - 02:02 PM

ya... what a fuss over someone who's not even POSTING in this thread... are you so desperate to talk about something that you'll talk about ANYTHING?!?!?!

LOL!!


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Mar 01 - 02:10 PM

I think you have hit the nail on the head, Clinton. I am amazed at the things I spend my time doing lately. Like posting to this thread. Not surprised...just kind of passively amazed. Only I ain't laughin'.

It makes me wonder what I actually came here (meaning into this life) to do in the first place...

"If anyone's got an original thought out there, I could use it right now..."

- LH

p.s. Could be a whole lot worse. I could be playing Bingo in a smoky bingo hall, or pumping quarters into a slot machine. I guess I should be thankful.


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Subject: I'd rather that box than this one
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 12 Mar 01 - 02:21 PM

The internet is the mind killer! It is the little death the precedes all other deaths!! I will let the internet pass over me and through me...

For you DUNE movie fans...

LOL!!


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: CarolC
Date: 12 Mar 01 - 02:24 PM

It makes me wonder what I actually came here (meaning into this life) to do in the first place...

"If anyone's got an original thought out there, I could use it right now..."

--Little Hawk

(Little Hawk, get your songs published. That would be a significant contribution to the world... and keep posting to the Mudcat.)


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Mar 01 - 02:27 PM

Well, I appreciate those kind words, Carol.

- LH


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: wysiwyg
Date: 12 Mar 01 - 02:30 PM

Uh-oh, LH. Can I resist the temptation to start a thread begging you to post every one of them?

Perhaps... temporarily.

~S~


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: beachcomber
Date: 12 Mar 01 - 04:19 PM

Is'nt it MAVellous! Here I am, a mudcatter now for these past 12 months or so (?) and noone ever welcomed me, an I never said anythin' to anyone.


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: CarolC
Date: 12 Mar 01 - 04:28 PM

Welcome to the Mudcat, beachcomber, even though you've been a member longer than I have.

Carol


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 12 Mar 01 - 04:32 PM

Hi Beach, checked your posts (as I did with Mav's, before trying to be ironic...thanks Spaw, by the way) and the trouble is...They're ALL about Folk Music! Stanley Bros. even!

No Problem. Welcome. Nobody here but us chickens!

Rick


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: kimmers
Date: 12 Mar 01 - 04:37 PM

Yeah, I never got a "welcome" thread either. (snif snif, puppy whine) Guess I haven't been controversial enough!

Seriously, though... I guess I admire those of you who can step above the differences and be generous. I'm not very good at that. If I dislike someone intensely, whether in RL or Cyberville, I can't hide it and I can't say what I don't feel.

So, MAV, I'm not sure if I can honestly offer you much welcome, as I have found your posts (before I finally stopped reading them) to be venomous and without much supporting evidence... mainly opinion and dogma. But I'll not shoot down those who have welcomed you, as they clearly have more patience than I do.

I like sharp-tongued, clever, sarcastic people (especially if I happen to agree with them)... but if we were all that way, the world would be in a worse mess. Blessed are the peacemakers; let's be glad that we have them.


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: catspaw49
Date: 12 Mar 01 - 04:42 PM

Aw now kimmers, I'm sorry. It wasn't a thread, but I thought I gave you a nice welcome. Anyway, welcome to the 'Cat Beach....I've read your posts too.....and Doc Kimmers, ya' know I luv ya'!! Good musical folks.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 12 Mar 01 - 04:44 PM

Welcome Kimmers...you really ARE welcome in my book.

Rick

That's it, I'm outta the "welcome business".


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: Jim the Bart
Date: 12 Mar 01 - 04:45 PM

Little Hawk, et al -

I'm not sure why we're supposed to be here on this earth, but I figured as long as I am here, I'd learn as much about the place as I could. And one thing I have found out about this here plane of existence is that every once in a while you need to confront something new and different to learn something new and different. Which brings me to the subject of Mav.

I understand why people don't agree with him; I think he's completely wrong in his thinking. And I understand why people don't like him; he's completely obnoxious in his manner. But I don't believe he's alone in thinking the way he does. I think he verbalizes what a lot of people in our society think. Unlike 'Spaw and some of the others, I don't believe he's a racist; if I felt he hated without thinking I wouldn't waste a breath on him. I think he presents a world view that is hopelessly at odds with the secular humanism that most of us who care about this music (and each other) share. His crime as I see it isn't so much racism as it is "heresy" - in a social rather than religious sense. And it amazes me how deeply under people's skin these heresies he speaks get.

I won't defend him. And I won't condemn him, either. He does both whenever he posts. He chose to drop the "guest" tag that so many people here get riled about and so I will welcome him as a member. Whether anyone else cares to make him welcome is their own business. I'm not going to waste any good will that I may have built up with the good people here trying to make anyone understand why I feel Mav has value. All I'll say is that I have learned a lot from his posts - about a POV with which I doubt I will ever agree and about how fast expressing that POV can exhaust the tolerance of even the most tolerant people.

So - Welcome, Mav.

Hope everyone here at the 'Cat (and looking in from the outside) has a wonderful evening. Spring is not far away now and spring always brings new hope. . .
Bart


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: kimmers
Date: 12 Mar 01 - 05:05 PM

Hey, thanks 'Spaw and Rick! Now I feel official. And Bartholomew, you make some very good arguments.


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: catspaw49
Date: 12 Mar 01 - 05:44 PM

Bart almost always makes good arguments. We may disagree here re: Mav, but he always has my respect and the point where we certainly do agree is that all that has been said here is strictly opinion and I would not imply otherwise. In this case, our opinion differs......not a big deal. I hope we are all possibly ready to get back again to the times that we used to agree to disagree with a limit on hard feelings.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: Greg F.
Date: 12 Mar 01 - 06:27 PM

A little something dedicated to MAV & the MAVapologists:br>
All There Is To Know About Adolph Eichmann
(Leonard Cohen)

EYES:.....................................................Medium
HAIR:....................................................Medium
WEIGHT:..............................................Medium
HEIGHT:................................................Medium
DISTINGUISHING FEATURES:........None
NUMBER OF FINGERS:.....................Ten
NUMBER OF TOES:............................Ten
INTELLIGENCE:...................................Medium

What did you expect?
Talons?
Oversize incisors?
Green saliva?

Madness?


from Flowers for Hitler (1964)


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Mar 01 - 06:47 PM

Bartholomew - that is a damned fine post. I pretty much agree with you in everything that you stated. MAV is indeed speaking what is "heresy" to many here, while a lot of what I value and take for granted is "heresy" to him.

I am not inclined to burn heretics or ban them, and I wouldn't want them to do that to me either.

I'll say one thing for MAV. He's got fortitude. I'd have crawled away long ago if I was getting castigated on some conservative forum the way he has been here.

When stuff gets under one's skin that badly, it's an opportunity to learn something new (about oneself), I figure. MAV's heresies are intriguing to me, partly because they're so unusual around here.

- LH


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: CarolC
Date: 12 Mar 01 - 08:21 PM

Greg F, a lot of the things you say make sense. The part that scares me about some of your posts is when you refer to a human being as an "it". It has been that practice of de-humanizing people that has made most genocides and war atrocities possible. Don't you want to be above that kind of stuff? Do you think you can talk like that about another human being, however disturbing that person may be, and still maintain the moral high ground?

Respectfully,

Carol


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: Greg F.
Date: 12 Mar 01 - 09:42 PM

Carol,

I do grant your point(touché!) but suggest that rather than take me to task for a tongue-in-cheek reference, you refresh your memory with the very real and seriously de-humanizing, racist, and just plain nasty way the MAV-thing has consistently addressed anyone and everyone from his debut- now wait a minute; we don't really know what the sex of the MAV-thing is, so why assume its a he? Cound be a she, and it could even be an it after all! - and you may come to the conclusion that I'm not the scary one. As far my maintaining the "moral high ground" - with people above posting paens to the MAV-thing's "fortitude", "value" and other sterling qualities, it would seem a rather nugatory exercise on my part,in that company, no?

Best regards, Greg


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: CarolC
Date: 12 Mar 01 - 10:27 PM

Nugatory is a new one for me, Greg. I looked it up and I think I know what you meant by it, but I'm not sure.

I'm sorry if I came across as taking you to task. It wasn't my intention to do that. I was expressing a concern I have about that particular practice.

I can't take responsibility for anything MAV does or doesn't do. Or for anything any other Mudcatters do or don't do. I can only take responsibility for what I do. I think I'm going to continue to regard MAV as a human being, and I'll continue to stay out of the threads in which MAV and some other Mudcatters are having their sport.

I think I need to do this because I know one or two people like MAV in the 3D world, and although I disagree vehemently with many of their views and practices, I find that I can't ignore their humanity.

I can understand how you might not feel the same way.

Carol


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: flattop
Date: 12 Mar 01 - 10:55 PM

Sixty-three posts! Gees, you guys are really giving MAV a fine welcome. I see it's not all joyous backslapping. That's ok. Mudcatters have a range of conflicting but tenaciously correct opinions.

I was a little troubled to see that the mouser yelling at Susan for something that I said about farting. I know it can be confusing. Susan and I are so much alike that I get confused myself. Sometimes I have to stop and ask, 'Is that you Susan or is that me?'

Greg seems to have it in for Eichmann and the boys in the Reich. Talk about flogging a dead Hammelkeule. I'm not sure what it's got to do with MAV. I'm wondering if MAV might read about himself here and have one of those It's a Wonderful Life moments. You know, like in the movie where Jimmy Stewart thinks he has a beautiful family and that he's won the lottery and after a dream or something he decided he's a loser and wants to commit suicide. I think it's been a while since I saw the movie.


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: Greg F.
Date: 13 Mar 01 - 07:08 AM

I'm not sure what it's got to do with MAV. And that, Ladeez & Gennelmen, is the heart of the problem! The spirit (if you can call it that) and mindset that created & permitted the "boys of the Reich" [cute, eh?] to flourish for so long is alive & well. We shouldn't forget, excuse, condone or ignore it.

Best, Greg


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: catspaw49
Date: 13 Mar 01 - 07:17 AM

There ya' go.....well said Greg.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: CarolC
Date: 13 Mar 01 - 12:07 PM

We shouldn't forget, excuse, condone or ignore it.

--Greg F.

I can't find anything to disagree with about that. I would add only one cautionary note. I've found that people have a tendency to become what they hate. So I would say we shouldn't forget, excuse, condone, ignore, or become it.

Carol


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: GUEST,Carol's Friend Don
Date: 13 Mar 01 - 12:17 PM

Actually Greg, when I consider the "spirit and mindset of those who created and permitted the boys of the Third Reich..." the name which most quickly springs to mind ...

is yours...

And while I agree that we should not forget, excuse or condone it...

we can ignore it...

goodbye...


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: Ebbie
Date: 13 Mar 01 - 12:19 PM

My notion- possibly unfounded- is that mav may read these posts and think to himself in dismay: Hey, I really blew it!

And that is the first step to change...

Ebbie


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: Greg F.
Date: 13 Mar 01 - 12:31 PM

Well then, Don, you have both my pity and my contempt. My anger would be superfluous.

Greg


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: GUEST,Carol's Friend Don
Date: 13 Mar 01 - 12:40 PM

Superfluous was the word I had in mind...


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: CarolC
Date: 13 Mar 01 - 12:50 PM

Ok, if you guys are going to duke it out in the threads, then Don, you're going to have to take on a screen name that doesn't have my name in it. I don't like to see my name popping up incessantly in the midst of someone else's argument. How about Guest, DonM?

Carol


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: Greg F.
Date: 13 Mar 01 - 12:55 PM

No duke-ing on my part involved, Carol. I've said all I intend to say to this guy- 'friend' or not.

Best, Greg


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: Skeptic
Date: 13 Mar 01 - 12:58 PM

Ah, I finally see the light. Its so blindingly logical.

Mav is an intolerant, racist and a bigot and probably a neo-nazi.

We are all tolerant and accepting and rarely, if ever, have strong opinions about anything, never call others names (other than racist, bigot, nazi and the like and those sort of people aren't worth worrying about anyway) and support, nay demand, respect for all individuals regardless of race, sex, approved creeds, color,, certain acceptable political positions, sexual orientation or non-fundamentalist religious views.

Therefore, let us declare mav as persona non grata and excommicat and deny his virtual existence.

Shouldn't there be a ceremony or something to make it official?

I feel so much better now. Silly of me not to see it sooner.

With strained regards

John


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: CarolC
Date: 13 Mar 01 - 03:15 PM

I think I'd like to include my friend, Don, in this welcome thread.

Don is an accomplished musician and accousticly friendly sound engineer. He plays the autoharp (better than anyone else I've ever heard), six and twelve string guitar, banjo, (regular and long necked seeger), and an assortment of other things that make strange noises.

Don gives generously of his time, energies, and expertise, whenever there is a musical event in this town, and in several other towns as well. The musical landscape would be very different around here without his input.

Every single musical instrument I own was given to me by Don at some point or another. That includes four recorders, four irish whistles, and my two beloved accordions.

Because we differ so greatly in political terms, as well as in many other ways, I try to make it a point to never engage in any discussions about politics or other social issues with him. That keeps things from getting ugly.

Don has to post as guest because he is only equipped to do his Mudcatting at work, where he is not able to set a cookie. But, although he is not a member, I would like to welcome him anyway.

Welcome to the Mudcat, Don!

Carol


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 13 Mar 01 - 04:43 PM

That goes for me too Don. Yer friend's a helluva Gal.

Rick


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: SINSULL
Date: 13 Mar 01 - 04:49 PM

And to make this a music thread:
"Make new friends
But keep the old
One is silver
And the other's gold"


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: Little Hawk
Date: 13 Mar 01 - 09:17 PM

Yup, I have found that after a life of hating, detesting, and vilifying all right-wingers, I can now have friendships with them, play music with them, appreciate their strengths, and pardon their weaknesses...as I hope they would do with me. If not, I can live with it.

We still disagree about politics and how to run a society...

But, what the hell.

Politics ain't everything.

I no longer define a person's whole nature as a human being on the basis of one or two of his attitudes which may differ from mine in one or two areas of life.

A text I read on psychology once said that a healthy mind looks for the similarities in other human beings, while an unhealthy one focuses on the differences. And that's where prejudice comes from. That's how wars arise. The common German, Russian, British, Japanese and American soldiers in WWII, for example, had far more in common as human beings than the political issues and beliefs that divided them. Too bad they, like most people, could only see the DIFFERENCES. Hitler rose to power by focusing on the petty differences between people, and the whole sorry affair then took its inevitable course. Too bad he fooled a majority of the German electorate so thoroughly, or it could have been avoided. People are easily fooled, specially when times are tough, as they were in Germany in the 20's and early 30's.

So...Let he among us who is without prejudice it cast the first accusation.

(*.....HUGE SILENCE.....*)

No war worth fighting here, is there?

- LH


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: Little Hawk
Date: 13 Mar 01 - 09:52 PM

The word "it" shouldn't have been in there. Typo.


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: MAV
Date: 14 Mar 01 - 01:53 AM

Dear Flattop and friends,

Well, well, well, this is delightful.

What a wonderful surprise and indeed just in time for my 50th birthday. (how did you know?)

Thank you so much for elevating me to the honor that you have bestowed on me here, I'll never forget it.

Many of you have given me the benefit of the doubt and many do consider me the ying of your yang. For that I thank you.

Those of you who HATE me, well, that makes you haters, something I am not.

If you do read my posts you will find you cannot deduce from them that I am a racist and those who know me musically and politically know that I am indeed not one .

I do however, with every fiber of my being, hate the Nazis, since they murdered part of my family in Germany. My mother and grandma were rescued from that HELL by my American GI father in 1948.

Since you finally asked, I am a musician, having spent a great deal of my life as a rock-n-roller and bluesman. I have a B-3 and Leslie, Wurlitzer and digital pianos and about 20 harmonicas. I also do vocals.

Our band (since 1980) has competed in the "Blues Rumble" in Allston MA, 3 years running and were in the finals only to be beaten out by Shirley Lewis. We also played all kinds of swing from Glen Miller to Cab Callaway and Louis Jordan.

The height of my musical career was to set foot on the stage at the Apollo theater in Harlem and perform "Live at the Apollo" without getting booed or chased off by the clown. We then walked several blocks (at midnight) to our waiting rental van (balls or stupid?). I think the guitar cases saved our lives

In the early 70s I also had the distinct pleasure of transporting Dennis Yost and the Classics IV from the North Platte NE airport to the auditorium in my 55 Chevy Sedan Wagon and warming up the crowd for them. I also met and opened for Ricky Nelson, Steppenwolf and Sugarloaf (Green eyed lady) about the same time. The day we were supposed to open a concert for Chicago in Lincoln NE, our bass player got drafted, went to Korea and became paralysed from a motor vehicle accident.

In the 70s I played the midwest SD, NE, KS, IA, OK and CO. We lived for and entire summer in Estes Park CO and had the times of our lives.

More recently we used a 7 piece horn section and opened up for the Night stalker at a summer festival.

We have played on way too many harbor cruises in the Atlantic.

It seems that tomorrow night I will sit in with a 40s swing band to see if we like each other and can perhaps form a musical union.

I love (but don't play) tenor sax, any kind of slide guitar, hot, natural Fender Strat and powerful (gospel)female vocals.

Other than that, I know nothing about music, but thanks for asking.

For all you "capo freaks" I used to play in all keys, but now I have a "transpose" button. Blues just don't work in D#. Sliding up onto those black keys ain't a happening thing.

Thanks again for bestowing this great honor on me and please know that I appreciate it and love you all.

Sincerely,

mav out


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: wdyat12
Date: 14 Mar 01 - 03:58 AM

I don't really want you or anyone else to make mincemeat out of me, but I certainly would enjoy hearing you play on one of Mudcat's Paltalk connections. You sound as if you could really shake 'em up. I dance on my woodstove when the music gets really hot.

wdyat12


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: GUEST,The Yank
Date: 14 Mar 01 - 08:24 AM

Brilliant! The MAV has musical talent. Perhaps.

Richard Wagner was a musical genius and also a thoroughly despicable excuse for a human being. Is there a lesson here? Perhaps.

A fascinating and revealing thread.


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: SINSULL
Date: 14 Mar 01 - 08:35 AM

Welcome MAV. For the record, in the very first MAV thread before you even made an appearance, several asked about your music. Maybe Uncle Jacques didn't pass it on to you. And Happy Birthday.


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: flattop
Date: 14 Mar 01 - 08:54 AM

20 harmonicas and so many words. Did you catch 20 harmonic and mouth disease from Little Hawk, MAV?


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: mousethief
Date: 14 Mar 01 - 11:18 AM

Boy, you push enough kids down on the playground that pretty soon people start calling you a bully, then you cry to your mama because people are calling names.

Go figure.


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: flattop
Date: 14 Mar 01 - 11:34 AM

Sorry mousethief. I copied 20 harmonic from MAV's message then, in a hurry, pasted it in my message. I was just trying to have fun with harmonic and mouth disease.

I don't mind being called names as long as folks are having fun.

I must admit that I recently saw Little Hawk when he wasn't wearing one of his harmonica holders. This was the first time in the years that I've known him that I have seen him harmonicaless. He almost looked naked without them.


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: mousethief
Date: 14 Mar 01 - 11:39 AM

Flattop, forgive me, but what makes you think I was referring to you?

The misunderstood,
Alex


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: Wesley S
Date: 14 Mar 01 - 11:53 AM

Mav - Nothing - I mean NOTHING is funkier than a Hammond B-3 with a Leslie. But transporting them sucks - would you agree? I sounds like you've played with some interesting people over the years.


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: Sarah2
Date: 14 Mar 01 - 04:01 PM

MAV,

I opened this thread, and have been lurking, reading all the vitriol in stark amazement.

Civility has been in short supply among the loving liberals here since the change in the White House: This is one of the reasons, I guess, I've not read any of your posts; I've stayed out of the Bushwacked threads, since the title itself indicated to me they would be little more than a series of self-congratulatory "liberal" ways to describe GWB in more and more demeaning terms. Fascism wears many faces, after all. I tend to believe that its basic tenent is "If you don't agree with my political outlook, you should be personally attacked, ostracized and dehumanized and then we'll getcha."

(Let me hasten to add, here, that I'm not a Republican. I'm not a Democrat. I've never voted a straight ticket in my life. I'm not a conservative; I'm not a liberal. I like to think I'm an Independent and can make up my own mind about any given issue on its merits; and I am leery in the extreme of the Tyranny of the Majority. What's good for California, in my book, may not be the answer in Hutchison, Kansas.)

Your musical credentials are impressive. I hope you'll be paying attention to the Lyric Request and Tune Request threads so you can help others here in their searches.

Anyway, welcome to the Mudcat.

Sarah (in favor of diversity)


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: Little Hawk
Date: 14 Mar 01 - 04:16 PM

Always good to hear from an independent, Sarah. Here's to unity in diversity!

- LH


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 14 Mar 01 - 04:34 PM

Well, I didn't know who MAV was until I read his post in this thread. He seems alright from that one. I for one wish him welcome, even if he is a gargoyle. Hell, every rare, old edifice has one. Why should Mudcat be any different?


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: mousethief
Date: 14 Mar 01 - 04:37 PM

People who only know MAV from this thread don't know MAV at all.


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 14 Mar 01 - 04:44 PM

Granted, mousethief. I just don't have the desire to read through those Bushwhacked threads to find out why I shouldn't like him, I guess.


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: mousethief
Date: 14 Mar 01 - 04:45 PM

Bless your heart, LEJ.


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: GUEST, - Hysterion
Date: 14 Mar 01 - 04:55 PM

FABULOUS!This is better than Monty Python!

[MAV,] I've not read any of your posts; I've stayed out of the Bushwacked threads, since the title itself indicated to me they would be little more than a series of self-congratulatory "liberal" ways to describe GWB in more and more demeaning terms. Fascism wears many faces, after all.

So:

I don't know what the thread has said.

I have no idea what you have said.

I don't know jack shit and what's more I'm proudly defiant about my total ignorance of or interest in the facts of the matter!

Since I'm totally ignorant of the situation, MAV, those who disagree with you and tastelessly call you names are obviously fascists.

So welcome, whatever you are, whoever you are, whatever you said; I don't know, I don't care, I'm too lazy to find out, but welcome.

----------

Jesus, lady, are you trying to be funny or are you just a complete idiot? Oh, ye generation of morons-


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: MAV
Date: 14 Mar 01 - 05:01 PM

Dear Wes,

"Mav - Nothing - I mean NOTHING is funkier than a Hammond B-3 with a Leslie. But transporting them sucks - would you agree?"

Abso-funky-lutely! Nothing like that plunking, distorted, clicking, whirling coke bottle 350 lb sound.

"I sounds like you've played with some interesting people over the years"

I have and enjoyed every minute of it, just like being here on mudcatters.

I think I'll get a used Oberheim however,

mav out


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: mousethief
Date: 14 Mar 01 - 05:02 PM

enjoyed every minute of it, just like being here on mudcatters

He ain't heavy. He's my evil twin bruh-therrrrrrr.....


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: Greg F.
Date: 14 Mar 01 - 05:09 PM

Ya think, Alex? Jeckell & Hyde? Doppelganger? Multiple Personality Disorder? It gives one furiously to think....

Best, Greg


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: Ebbie
Date: 14 Mar 01 - 05:14 PM

Guest/Hysterion, not calling names but I agree with your reasoning! Sarah2, your basis for believing without reading that Bushwhacking, etc, was a thread filled with "self-congratulatory "liberal" ways to describe GWB in more and more demeaning terms" may solidify your opinion but frankly, it is silly in the extreme.

Read the damn things and then come back and tell us 'loving liberals' where we went wrong. Until then, your opinion is not of any substance.

mav, I gather that music has never brought you any joy.

Ebbie


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: Wesley S
Date: 14 Mar 01 - 05:21 PM

Mav - I'm sure the young keyboard players of today would appreciate their Oberheims a whole lot more if they had a few hernias from lugging your rig around.

PS - Don't tell anyone that I have an Arp Odessey in my closet - it will ruin my folky status. Let me know if you hear of a place I can unload it.


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: Matt_R
Date: 14 Mar 01 - 05:22 PM

Sarah, that's EXACTLY why I didn't read any of them. Wasting time blabbing about politics in my opinion is exactly that...a waste of time. Hell, I wrote my priest's name in on the ballot slot for President.


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: Matt_R
Date: 14 Mar 01 - 05:29 PM

Unload it here, Wes! Cuz you know I love to play "Come Sail Away"! Hee hee, I know that gets yer gorge up, but I can't help it! Such a great song!


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: katlaughing
Date: 14 Mar 01 - 05:32 PM

And that is exactly what GWB represents...the vacuity of a bunch of apathetic people who can't be bothered to get involved and feel passionate about the government of their country. You will reap what you don't sow, also....

my daughter (who is involved AND VOTES) says her generation, somewhere in between X and now, needs a cause to unite them and get them fired up...I hope to gawd it isn't some war that the little pissant shrub stumbles onto.

It would've been a lot less acrimonious if mav had come in as a music lover first; as it is many of us see little reason to welcome regardless.


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: Pol Pot
Date: 14 Mar 01 - 05:33 PM

That is the spirit Matt R that I can recommend to all peasants revell in your stupidity embrace your ignorance like a lover uninvolved. Genocide can be useful management tool. Please do not call me names like mass muderer we are all human beings trying to get along on this planet and our petty differences do not negate our basic oneness with each other.


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: Matt_R
Date: 14 Mar 01 - 05:37 PM

Jim Lehrer hasn't voted since 1962.


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: katlaughing
Date: 14 Mar 01 - 05:42 PM

So what?


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: Wesley S
Date: 14 Mar 01 - 05:55 PM

Clueless people who don't care SHOULDN'T vote in my opinion.


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: Matt_R
Date: 14 Mar 01 - 06:09 PM

So not everyone votes.

A common cause for Gen X? Not likely, unless it's making all illegal substances legal. And raising the legal alcohol limit. And raising the speed limit. Believe me, I know what people my age care about. Getting drunk all the time, "expanding their mind" on pot and getting killed. All I hear in class all day is who got drunk and who's got a hangover. Even among my Paltalk friends...that's all they care about. Music, history....no one cares about that stuff anymore.

If your looking for Gen X'ers to build a barricade on Pennsylvania Avenue because of abortion or something. You wanna got do that stuff? Fine! Do it! Just leave me alone. Kill your mind, kill your fetuses (oops I mean kill dem cell clusters), kill your friends, kill you enemies, kill your brain cells, kill anything that doesn't pertain to you or anyone that doesn't agree with you, that's modern mentality. You're gonna have to try a HELL of a lot to get this generation of their asses to do anything. There may be one solution, though. My grandfather always used to say "What this country needs is another Depression, to make people realize how important it all is.

And don't you DARE lump me in with "the vacuity of a bunch of apathetic people who can't be bothered to get involved and feel passionate about the government of their country."

I didn't vote for Bush. I voted for about 2 or 3 people I really cared about. The rest I just picked names. But I think I accidentally punched a wrong hole on an unused line, so my ballot was probably nullified.

If all the idiots in this nation hadn't voted for Bush & Gore, we would have had Bill Bradley and John McCain, who I really DID care about. And upon thinking back, if they HAD made it to the Final Election, I think I would have been hard pressed to choose between them. But when all the morons of the nation went for an animated wooden statue and a walking baby-doll, I lost all interest. I didn't like either of them, or what they stood for, and as far as I could see, NONE of them deserved my vote.

Maybe next election will be better. This one sucked BIG TIME. I never want to see either of these dipwads again.

Right now, I have seen NO change whatsoever in my life and my environment, world, etc that chaged when Clinton went out and Bush came in. I'm trying to get myself through college and find a job to support myself. I don't have time to go get myself arrested over issues that have no bearing on me.

--Matt


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: Little Hawk
Date: 14 Mar 01 - 06:13 PM

Lao-Tse steadfastly refused to involve himself in political matters, and he was universally considered to be the wisest man in China.

Jesus showed little interest in politics also. I suspect he would not have voted, if given the chance to. He had more vital matters and more important work on his mind.

Ditto for Buddha.

Point being: You don't necessarily have to be either ignorant or apathetic to regard the current political arena as not worth participating in. Look at all the pointless hatred it has engendered on this forum alone.

Maybe Matt is smarter than some of you give him credit for...

p.s. Should clueless people who care vote? How do we define and separate them from the ones who aren't clueless? Who decides? You're all clueless in someone else's eyes...or they are in yours.

- LH


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: MAV
Date: 14 Mar 01 - 06:23 PM

Dear Kat, Cat, Mouse, Greg et al,

Here's where the rubber meets the road.

I would like to have you identify and locate my complete and in-context posts to demonstrate to all these nice folks (who may be blues fans) by using MY OWN WORDS against me, where I'm a, (taking deep breath);

cruelbiggotedmassmurderingracisthomophobicsexistmorondirtbagevilmeanspiritedknuckledraggingtroglodytewhitesupremicistbastard.

Just because I'm a conservative Republican from Nebraska doesn't automatically make me any of the above.

"It would've been a lot less acrimonious if mav had come in as a music lover first; as it is many of us see little reason to welcome regardless"

Oh, c'mon Kat, don't be that way. Smooches?

If you want to identify yourselves as "haters" and as the enemy, that's your right. If I'm a threat to your self-perceived notions of freedom and morality, I'm real sorry.

My referring to public figures or institutions by the way, does not count.

Remember, MY OWN WORDS!

But meanwhile, let's get back with the group.

PAR-DEE! PAR-DEE! PAR-DEE! PAR-DEE! PAR-DEE! PAR-DEE!

Yay!! (cheering, noisemakers, conversation buzz, clinking glasses, Albert King playing loudly).

More cake anyone?

Thanks again folks,

mav out

PS Ebbie, I can groove so bad, it'd hurt you feelins'

I'll have to cut out early though, I'm going to go jam (on piano) with a BIG band. Later.


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: katlaughing
Date: 14 Mar 01 - 06:27 PM

Jesus didn't get involved in politics? You've got to be kidding, right? He was a rebel who defied the government of his time. As far as I am concerned that means he was involved.

Matt, sorry, I am glad to hear that you voted with good reasons. It just really bothers me when I hear/read statements liek you made baout staying out of the political threads etc. You may think things we are passionate about do not have any bearing on you life. You will find out differently. It's one of the reasons we talk about the seventh generation among Native American spirituality...what we do today will effect seven generations and more, so we must be thoughtful and involved.

Wesley...interesting point, perhaps as Matt says, that is why we have a shrub for resident.


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: Greg F.
Date: 14 Mar 01 - 06:31 PM

Oh, c'mon Kat, don't be that way. Smooches?!??

Ebbie, I can groove so bad, it'd hurt you feelins'??!!???

Boy, he really is an obnoxious little shit, ain't he? Nothin' necessarily involving his politics- he's just an asshole!


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: MAV
Date: 14 Mar 01 - 06:32 PM

100?


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: Matt_R
Date: 14 Mar 01 - 06:45 PM

Well kat, I'm sorry, that's just the way I am. You can't FORCE me to read something I'm just not interested in. If I see people arguing politics on the TV, I turn the channel. And they usually do it with less venom than they do here! If there's a music thread I'm not interested in, I don't read it either. I used to get in political thread a long time ago, and found myself getting angry, violent, and nasty. I have no wish to be like that again. And in those threads, it's just one hostility after another. Besides, they take SOOOO long to load!!


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Subject: I Hate Welcome Threads
From: Joe Offer
Date: 14 Mar 01 - 07:08 PM

[sigh]

I hate "welcome" threads. With some 8,500 registered Mudcatters, how many novel ways can we invent to say "welcome"? Can't we just address them by name and answer their questions or comments in the threads where they post, and not come up with a hundred-message thread every time somebody notices a new name? I know the intentions are good - same with the healing and prayer threads - but if you repeat anything too often, it becomes tedious, meaningless drivel.

I see there's a "welcome" thread for Pol Pot, whose registration lists his e-mail as genocide@hotmail.com. Now, there's a flame war waiting to erupt. I hope Mudcatters have the good sense not to post to that thread at all. If you'd like to welcome Pol Pot, send him e-mail.

I suppose expressing an opinion like this is inviting flames from all the do-gooders, but what the hell....

-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: SINSULL
Date: 14 Mar 01 - 07:18 PM

I feel it is time to point out that aside from two PMs, I have never officially been welcomed the the 'Cat. No! It's too late. The damage is done. Now I'll go sulk in a corner and watch MAV and Pol Pot get all the attention. Big SIGH!


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: gnu
Date: 14 Mar 01 - 07:25 PM

Joe.... thank you...thank you....thank you.

extremelygratefulgnu

PS... I WAS going to post the following to the Piss Pot thread, but I'll post it now becasue it seems right. Being a new member, I recently read in the "Newcomers" .......

I would like to say one thing about flamers (those who say nasty things) and trolls (seemingly nice people who goad flamers and then provoke a flame war by playing the martyr): Do NOT respond to flamers and trolls. They feed on attention. The only way to control them is to ignore them and starve them from the attention they crave. Act as if they did not exist, and they usually will go away. If they don't go away, the Powers That Be will have an easier time dealing with them if others have ignored them. I know it's a natural thing to want to respond, but please don't.


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: Jeri
Date: 14 Mar 01 - 07:25 PM

Joe, I agree. There are some folks who just come here to talk about music and feel comfortable doing so and find themselves assaulted by touchie-feelies. It's like seeing someone new at a party and stopping the whole party to introduce him and then taking turns hugging him to death, while he's trying to squirm his way out the door. If it had happened to me when I first came here, I probably would have left in a hurry and not come back.

I don't read the welcome threads. There are a lot of threads I don't read these days. I just came in here to see if Joe finally snapped. ;-)


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: Justa Picker
Date: 14 Mar 01 - 07:31 PM

I figure that by not announcing my membership here when I joined, I saved a thread being started with perhaps 4 or 5 posts.

I was also breast fed as a child so I've never really needed anything further, to feel worthy or validated.

I generally let my fingers do my talking. :-)


(I agree with Joe 100%.)


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 14 Mar 01 - 07:33 PM

If Joe snaps we're all in trouble, Jeri


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: GUEST,Sarah2 (at work)
Date: 14 Mar 01 - 08:14 PM

Hysterion, Ebbie,

Oh, I looked at them today, after I'd posted here, just for the hell of it, to see if my guess about the thread titles was off base or not: Sorry, no change of opinion about all the liberal love here. Just an urge to get away from all the vituperative hatred. Pardon me if I don't seek guidance from folks who can't resist demeaning others as a form of argument.

Hysterion, taking things out of context is apparently considered a really clever debating trick by some here; the point someone tries to make can then so easily be lost in the attack on a phrase, and, by extension, on the person.

But you only prove my point to me. You attack me, and display how ungenerous you can be to anyone who isn't ready to follow, lemminglike, the liberal lead.

Not very convincing.

Sarah


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Subject: I STILL Hate Welcome Threads
From: Joe Offer
Date: 14 Mar 01 - 08:17 PM

Well, hell, I'm a Midwesterner. Touchy-feelies scare me. If a couple of people shake my hand heartily and say "you betcha" a couple of times, I'll feel right at home. If you can feed me some Jello mold or hot dish, that's even better. A beer or two would be nice, and brandy even better. But if a hundred people line up to welcome me with gushy words, it's terrifying (and quite boring). Sometimes, I wonder how I've survived in warm, fuzzy California for the last 25 years....

I suppose the "Pol Pot" thread is a rather clever parody of "welcome" threads, but it has a nasty tone to it that invites a flame war, so I won't post to it.

And Sinsull, as I recall, I gave you a hearty handshake and even ate haggis with you, so you should consider yourself welcomed.
[I know you do.]

-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: SINSULL
Date: 14 Mar 01 - 08:34 PM

Actually Joe...you bear hugged me. So much for the "I'm not touchy feely" or was it the beer? Yes I feel welcome. Sulk over.
Hey, it's hugging strangers I object to, Mary. I believe we had sung some darn good songs together, imbibed, and eaten haggis before you got a hug from me. By that time, you certainly weren't a stranger. And if the recipient of the hug is an attactive member of the opposite sex who sings well, even the most staid of midwesterners can't be expected to resist the temptation to hug...
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: Skeptic
Date: 14 Mar 01 - 08:38 PM

Continued here against all logic


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: flattop
Date: 14 Mar 01 - 08:39 PM

Since some folks have trouble with threads with over 100 messages, I've started a new one called:

BS: More Welcomes for new mudcatter MAV


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: GUEST,Stackley
Date: 14 Mar 01 - 08:42 PM

Joe, take another look- its not a parody of a welcome thread, it IS the MAV welcome thread, excerpted. Any nastiness was in the original.

And Sarah, you were quoted almost exactly- nothing taken out of context. The attack was not on you, but on your worthless argument.

Cheers.


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: CarolC
Date: 14 Mar 01 - 08:51 PM

I don't see the welcome threads as being "touchy feely". I see them as an opportunity to help new members get some bearings and a little practice interacting with other members here in a relatively safe environment. And it helps existing members get to know a little bit about the new members. I always post to welcome threads.

I know if there had been a welcome thread for me when I joined, I would have benefited from it. As it was, I was welcomed by people on other threads. Those welcomes helped me a lot.

Carol


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: GUEST,Sarah2 (at work)
Date: 14 Mar 01 - 11:57 PM

Stackley, I wasn't arguing about a thing: I was making an observation about the lack of civility I've seen here lately, if you'll read the post. The fact that I hadn't dived into what I suspected was a string of threads dedicated to politics with the uaual bent -- because I figured they would be mostly uncivil postings -- is what was taken out of context to insinuate that I'm uninformed politically and therefore have no worth as a human being.

Seems to me that if someone says you don't know jack shit and are proud of it, asks you if you're a complete idiot, and signs off with a reference to morons, he's getting into personal attack. Maybe I'm being too sensitive? That was just general philosophy?

If so, it's a pretty rude one.

Sarah


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: GUEST,MAV
Date: 02 Aug 11 - 03:06 PM

Hey Folks!

How y'all been? I've been pretty busy for the last, well, decade.

But the other day I was cooking up some catfish, and suddenly remembered the forum. Hope everyone is in good health.

That's all for now, talk to you later.

MAV


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: GUEST,999
Date: 02 Aug 11 - 04:34 PM

In Portland? Good Lord!


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