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Welcome new mudcatter MAV

flattop 11 Mar 01 - 03:59 PM
CarolC 11 Mar 01 - 04:16 PM
SINSULL 11 Mar 01 - 04:16 PM
hesperis 11 Mar 01 - 04:44 PM
wdyat12 11 Mar 01 - 04:49 PM
wysiwyg 11 Mar 01 - 05:24 PM
Greg F. 11 Mar 01 - 05:25 PM
Amos 11 Mar 01 - 05:30 PM
wysiwyg 11 Mar 01 - 05:38 PM
Greg F. 11 Mar 01 - 06:12 PM
Rick Fielding 11 Mar 01 - 06:26 PM
wysiwyg 11 Mar 01 - 06:29 PM
Greg F. 11 Mar 01 - 08:06 PM
CarolC 11 Mar 01 - 08:17 PM
SINSULL 11 Mar 01 - 08:43 PM
flattop 11 Mar 01 - 08:55 PM
flattop 11 Mar 01 - 08:58 PM
catspaw49 11 Mar 01 - 09:11 PM
Bill D 11 Mar 01 - 09:19 PM
flattop 11 Mar 01 - 09:22 PM
catspaw49 11 Mar 01 - 09:28 PM
Greg F. 11 Mar 01 - 10:21 PM
CarolC 11 Mar 01 - 10:36 PM
wysiwyg 11 Mar 01 - 11:55 PM
Ebbie 12 Mar 01 - 12:19 AM
Little Hawk 12 Mar 01 - 12:45 AM
CarolC 12 Mar 01 - 12:46 AM
wysiwyg 12 Mar 01 - 12:51 AM
CarolC 12 Mar 01 - 01:04 AM
katlaughing 12 Mar 01 - 01:35 AM
wysiwyg 12 Mar 01 - 01:45 AM
Greg F. 12 Mar 01 - 07:46 AM
RichM 12 Mar 01 - 08:31 AM
mousethief 12 Mar 01 - 11:49 AM
Little Hawk 12 Mar 01 - 12:08 PM
Skeptic 12 Mar 01 - 12:23 PM
GUEST,marty D 12 Mar 01 - 12:29 PM
wysiwyg 12 Mar 01 - 12:32 PM
Little Hawk 12 Mar 01 - 12:43 PM
Ebbie 12 Mar 01 - 12:52 PM
katlaughing 12 Mar 01 - 01:00 PM
Peter Kasin 12 Mar 01 - 01:50 PM
Little Hawk 12 Mar 01 - 01:58 PM
Clinton Hammond 12 Mar 01 - 02:02 PM
Little Hawk 12 Mar 01 - 02:10 PM
Clinton Hammond 12 Mar 01 - 02:21 PM
CarolC 12 Mar 01 - 02:24 PM
Little Hawk 12 Mar 01 - 02:27 PM
wysiwyg 12 Mar 01 - 02:30 PM
beachcomber 12 Mar 01 - 04:19 PM
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Subject: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: flattop
Date: 11 Mar 01 - 03:59 PM

Welcome MAV.

Although a lefty, George Orwell pointed out that no kid likes to play with the tin pacifists.

I believe you have a role to play on mudcat MAV and that your are off to a good start. Your debating pals probably don't want to admit that they need you but they'd be lost without your input.


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: CarolC
Date: 11 Mar 01 - 04:16 PM

Welcome to the Mudcat, MAV!

You should check out my friend "GUEST, Carol's friend Don". He's your kind of guy. (I think he's the reincarnation of General Patton.)

Carol


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: SINSULL
Date: 11 Mar 01 - 04:16 PM

MAV is no longer a "guest"? Good for you. Welcome. And here's to some long, spirited, friendly debates.


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: hesperis
Date: 11 Mar 01 - 04:44 PM

Hi! Welcome to the 'Cat!

I tend to stay out of the political threads, so I probably won't see you around much, but have fun!

~*sirepseh*~


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: wdyat12
Date: 11 Mar 01 - 04:49 PM

Welcome MAV!

I can't wait for you to make mincemeat out of me.

wdyat12


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: wysiwyg
Date: 11 Mar 01 - 05:24 PM

MAV, welcome to the Mudcat. Now, bear in mind please, that not everyone has studied up on the finer points of your style. Nor does everyone here appreciate the approach that has worked so well for you in the whacked threads. I welcome you, and I hope you aren't a one-trick pony.

So I hope you'll introduce yourself as you'd like to be known among us, please-- this thread is you chance to let us see the Real You.

F'rinstance, whassup with you and music?

~S~


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: Greg F.
Date: 11 Mar 01 - 05:25 PM

This obnoxious racist bigot piece of crap should be about as welcome as a fart at a christening. Enen tolerance should have a limit. Pretty disappointing, gang.

Best, Greg


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: Amos
Date: 11 Mar 01 - 05:30 PM

It's okay -- Greg is really MAV trolling in disguise...right?


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: wysiwyg
Date: 11 Mar 01 - 05:38 PM

Greg, sometimes you have to let an offender in to be close enough to help him change. Mudcat is too positive to be rocked too hard by one person's emanations... it will probably affect him more than he, it. Why else would he keep coming back after all? Musta seem something good. That's enough of a start for me.

Racist, huh? I wish I were black; I'd go love his socks off. Maybe I can pretend. Why not; I was an honorary man for the time I led the Allies of Men support group.

MAV... don't forget to breathe, now.

~Susan


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: Greg F.
Date: 11 Mar 01 - 06:12 PM

Not hardly, Amos- been around a long time before that piece of garbage showed up, and a while before you, as well.  ;-)   And I take it as a pretty serious insult to be connected with it in any way.

Susan, you've got to be pretty naive to ask why he keeps coming back- he'a a shit-stirrer for God's sake. You can Play Pretend all you want- but in the real world your love 'em approach wouldn't have changed Mengele & it won't change this jackass either.

Best, Greg


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 11 Mar 01 - 06:26 PM

I haven't had one complaint about his MUSIC posts.

Rick


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: wysiwyg
Date: 11 Mar 01 - 06:29 PM

Greg, I live in the Real World. I only apply here what I know of my own experience-- not always as successfully as in 3D, because I am still learning the mediuum, but the medium is still new to me, so who knows?

I pick who to deal with pretty carefully too. It takes a commitment. Some people look like shit-stirrers but are actually after something else. Oh I've been wrong a time or two, and cut bait, so to speak, but not often.

What I saw in the brief time I spent in the early Bushwacked series was that if expected to actually THINK, MAV could converse. Not nicely, but converse. Feel free to write if you want to see this more clearly.

(Click HERE to e-mail me.)

~S~


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: Greg F.
Date: 11 Mar 01 - 08:06 PM

Feel free to write if you want to see this more clearly.

I do SO appreciate, Sue, being patronized by someone who makes a positive choice to live in la-la land. I neither want nor require anything from you in ANY sense. It is equally valid that people who look like like "something else" to you are in reality shit-stirrers.

I dunno, Rick- wasn't aware it HAD any music posts, but even so they don't change its other ravings. Hitler was kind to dogs, and all. So what?

Best, Greg


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: CarolC
Date: 11 Mar 01 - 08:17 PM

Wow, Greg F.

I can certainly understand how you might feel the way you do. But if MAV is a shit stirrer, what does that make the people who allow themselves to get stirred up by him? It just looks to me like that particular situation is a two way street. I've seen posters on those threads bait MAV to come back so they can fight with him some more. I think if they didn't do that, he would get bored and leave. Just my opinion. Please be gentle with me.

Carol


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: SINSULL
Date: 11 Mar 01 - 08:43 PM

Susan - "help him change"???? My experience has been that these political discussion threads, at best, get people to listen and maybe understand or respect opposing opinions but "help him change" is (I don't mean to insult you) insulting and maybe a little naive.

Greg F.- you were a Mudcat member long before I came along. Your posts have always been informative, logical, humorous,etc. I see MAV baiting and hoping for an argument. Maybe meeting Uncle Jacques, who introduced MAV to Mudcat, colors my perception. UJ is a gentle soul at heart. I have gone back and read through MAV's postings - a lot of anger and name calling but I don't see evil personified. What am I missing????


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: flattop
Date: 11 Mar 01 - 08:55 PM

What did I start here before I went for a nap?

I have not seen racist posts from MAV. Obnoxious, opinionated, yes, but not racist. I'm not saying they don't exist. I only read tiny bits of the argumentative threads.

Should we stop talking to someone because they are obnoxious, racist, and bigoted. Perhaps we each have to decide for ourselves. I tend to keep talking to people who don't share my opinions. I'd have no one to talk to except myself if I didn't. I even talk to Praise who told me she'd cut me off if I started a thread called the mudcat buffet.


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: flattop
Date: 11 Mar 01 - 08:58 PM

And who could object to a fart at a christening if its done with good taste?


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: catspaw49
Date: 11 Mar 01 - 09:11 PM

Hi Greg....just arrived for a moment this evening, but you know how I feel........and you're right. Rick sees no problem with his MUSIC posts because Rick knows that MAV HAS NO MUSIC POSTS!

Sorry Gang, but I couldn't work up fart for him....he's that worthless to me. Bigoted...Rascist....oh, yeah................

Feel free to enjoy his company, but when the snake bites, remember, after all, it IS a snake.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: Bill D
Date: 11 Mar 01 - 09:19 PM

careful, folks...we have had a quiet period here for a bit..let's not call names in public, or we'll be back to more flame wars...

I DO wish MAV and those who regularly debate him would take it to another site or some newsgroup,,,but...*sigh*,,,Max has made it SO easy here to follow and trade opinions.....


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: flattop
Date: 11 Mar 01 - 09:22 PM

Spaw's post suggests that MAV may also be a powerful anti-flatulant. Now there's a socially relevant role for a righwinger.


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: catspaw49
Date: 11 Mar 01 - 09:28 PM

Bill, I agree and I have quit having any input on that thread. We have a few people who enjoy him as a foil and that's fine. Uncle Jacque is fine if Sinsull says so and I know he's a fine musician. As long as MAV plays on his thread he bothers me not a bit, but let's know full well what he is.......and about that there is no mistake.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: Greg F.
Date: 11 Mar 01 - 10:21 PM

I've seen posters on those threads bait MAV to come back so they can fight with him some more. I think if they didn't do that, he would get bored and leave.

Carol, you're almost 100% correct.  ;-)  I too wish the MAV-baiters would bugger off & have said so before now- why encourage him? It isn't informative and it sure as hell isn't entertaining. But I don't think ignoring him would necessarily cause him to leave- he enjoys being a pain in the ass too much, plus it's hard for someone deluded enough to believe he has all the answers to be quiet.

Sinsull- 'Spaw has done a pretty good job of pointing out some of his more atrocious sentiments in a prior thread or two- too tired at this point to dig 'em up now. Maybe ma¤ana, if I get a chance. Or if 'Spaw sees this first, maybe he'll 'clicky' them.

Best, Greg


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: CarolC
Date: 11 Mar 01 - 10:36 PM

It isn't informative and it sure as hell isn't entertaining.

--Greg F.

I have to agree with you on that one, Greg.

Carol


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: wysiwyg
Date: 11 Mar 01 - 11:55 PM

Greg and Sinsull, you have both taken what I said at a considerable slant not in my mind or heart. Hey, whatever. See what you like. Why I changed my name.

Come on over and run my life and my head too since you think you know what's in 'em? No? OK then. Excuse me for having some idea what I think and know, what I live, sheeshe.

Funny I don't see MAV in here stirring up any trouble, hmmm.

Great thread flattop. Now you got everybody fighting. What a surprise.

~Girlmudgeon


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: Ebbie
Date: 12 Mar 01 - 12:19 AM

Should we stop talking to someone because they are obnoxious, racist, and bigoted.

We have a choice, I suppose. Personally, if a person who talks like mav were in my home I would get him put out on the street bodily, if need be. And that would be true even if he were interested in music, which this man is not. I'm not interested in having someone like that in my life.

I disagree that he wouldn't go away if he were ignored. He might spit and sputter and vomit and fume and get even more hateful for awhile- but I believe he would go. We've never been able to resist his hamhanded bludgeoning, so we will probably never know.

There are people who claim that they do this kind of activity just for fun- implying that we don't have senses of humor. A lucky few come to realize that it's not even related to fun, that it's nasty stuff.

The only way that mav will make me happy is if he changs his name here and comes back as a reasonable, decent human being.

FWIW

Ebbie


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Mar 01 - 12:45 AM

My goodness! What a fuss.

- LH


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: CarolC
Date: 12 Mar 01 - 12:46 AM

Is it your intention to come across as sounding vindictive, Susan?


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: wysiwyg
Date: 12 Mar 01 - 12:51 AM

No, Carol; did you take something I said personally, though I had addressed no comment to you?

~S~


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: CarolC
Date: 12 Mar 01 - 01:04 AM

No, Susan, I haven't taken anything you said personally. As you said, you have not addressed any comments to me.


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: katlaughing
Date: 12 Mar 01 - 01:35 AM

Greg F, Spaw, I am with you. When I started the first Bushwhacked thread it was out of anguish for what was happening to our country and women's rights. I have respect for some of the posters who have kept up a lively debate and worked hard to counter the spew of mav, but I also regret those threads going on and on with nary a mention of music, except in a few instances. At least with most BS threads we do eventually get around to music. I would not put out a welcome mat for someone like mav, at my home, why should we here? And, that is rhetorical without any need of explanation for any self-appointed goody-two shoes sticking their fingers in every pot.

kat


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: wysiwyg
Date: 12 Mar 01 - 01:45 AM

What a nice, nice bunch of people we have here!

~S~


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: Greg F.
Date: 12 Mar 01 - 07:46 AM

Kat, not to worry about "Bushwacked". The "BS" threads are clearly marked in most cases so they can be avoided by those who wish to- tho I'd prefer a "NM" [Non-Music] prefix as most not tainted by 'certain herin unnamed idiots' are FAR from bulls**t, serve a useful purpose, and discuss important issues, IMNSHO. I show up less frequently on the music threads because I learn more from them than I usually have to contribute; that doesn't mean I don't READ them.

There is a difference between expressing an opinion forcefully and being a total- what was that term from some months back?... F**kwit ! I think covers it.

Check THIS out- it'll take your mind off the Adolph Eichman Brigade Members.....  ;-)

Best, Greg


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: RichM
Date: 12 Mar 01 - 08:31 AM

Well, the thread isn't titled "BS"...maybe it should be changed?


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: mousethief
Date: 12 Mar 01 - 11:49 AM

Even nice people can be pushed too far, Susan. Catch a clue, babe. You can only stir shit for so long before you start to turn people WAY off. Mav has more than passed this line. Your additions to this thread haven't helped us love him any more.

You may put up with a fart at a christening. You don't welcome it, and you sure as hell don't invite it to the punch-bowl.


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Mar 01 - 12:08 PM

Well, it can be an interesting experience talking to and listening to people who live in a completely different mindset from your own...and not judging them in the process, even if they are inclined to judge you.

Then too, everyone seems to thoroughly enjoy having certain other folks to feel righteously superior to (I know I do! Ha! Ha!), and MAV has provided himself generously (if unwittingly) as just such a foil for those who utterly detest his kind of attitudes on things. He gives them someone to hate and castigate...someone to vilify and ostracize. I'm sure this is emotionally quite gratifying for them, so they should perhaps thank MAV for having given them the opportunity, and they probably would, if not for the fact that they enjoy hating him so much that thanking him would seem like sacrilege.

By the way, lest you misunderstand me, I disagree with most of MAV's rationale on most things, most of the time.

However, it's clear to me that like almost all other people he is defending what he thinks is right, proper, fair, responsible, and just.

That's what's so interesting about it.

To simply label him a "racist" is about as pointless as him labelling you a "communist", or an SLC, or whatever. While you are labelling MAV a racist, he is labelling someone else a racist. Obviously, you agree on one thing...it's bad to be a racist! Pretty ironical.

If his comments truly upset you, you can always just ignore them. I ignore certain people...like angry drunks, for example. I just avoid them. That doesn't cause them or me any problem.

- LH


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: Skeptic
Date: 12 Mar 01 - 12:23 PM

The simple answer to those who are disturbed by Mav's views is don't read them. His views are not unique, either to Mudcat or the country. He does tend to get more spirited than some in his defense, but then that's true of most people when our sacred cows are jabbed, as witness some of the responses to his posts

While I wish I could share the certainty some seem to have about the absolute rightness of thier beliefs, as my sign-on implies, there is always room to question.

I followed an dcontributed to Mav's political postings from the beginning and can't really say who started "flaming". It looks like Mav made some inflammatory statements that may or may not have been meant as such, people took offense, decided it ws flaming which it may have been) and flamed, Mav flamed back and away it went.

May I humbly (yeah, right) suggest a status quo antebellum?

And leave you with this thought:

Those who begin coercive elimination of dissent soon find themselves exterminating dissenters. Compulsory unification of opinion achieves only the unanimity of the graveyard. Justice Robert Jackson Barnette vs West Virgina, 1943

A sentiment Max seems to have taken to heart.

Regards

John


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: GUEST,marty D
Date: 12 Mar 01 - 12:29 PM

All right, so I'm not an "every day" Mudcatter (mostly because of work) but it still seems to me that to warrent a "welcome" thread, a Mudcatter should demonstrate that they have even a passing interest in folk music, or common courtesy for that matter, as opposed to simply an ideology. Or is that simply an outmoded concept here these days?

Martin


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: wysiwyg
Date: 12 Mar 01 - 12:32 PM

Alex, the only clue I caught off this thread is that some people who decry MAV's meanness can be pretty mean themselves, and that a number of people have suggested to me how I should think. I think I will form my own opinion of MAV if I have the opportunity to get to know him. I don't recall suggesting anyone else do anything otherwise.

~S~


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Mar 01 - 12:43 PM

Martin - That's certainly one way of looking at it. Whenever we get into whether people "should" or "should not" do this or that, then we're trying to get them to live up to our own standards, which probably won't happen a lot of the time. It can be pretty frustrating, to say the least, when you are waiting for others to behave the way you think they "should".

If the forum had a definite rule about that, then okay, but then it would probably not be as interesting a forum as it is now.

I guess maybe you could ask flattop why he started this welcome thread.

- LH


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: Ebbie
Date: 12 Mar 01 - 12:52 PM

Little Hawk, if this were a political forum, I would totally agree with you. It isn't and I don't.

Ebbie


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: katlaughing
Date: 12 Mar 01 - 01:00 PM

I agree, Ebbie. I've not seen anything at all, as Spaw pointed out, showing that mav has any interest in the music which brought this community together in the first place.


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: Peter Kasin
Date: 12 Mar 01 - 01:50 PM

MAV - tell us: What brings you to the Mudcat Cafe? What are your musical interests? Inquiring minds want to know. My suspicion is that the only reason you're here is because you enjoy going into political battle with a group of people you suspect are mostly from the leftish persuasion (of which, BTW, I'm not). You are free to do so, I'm free to ignore the political threads, but I think it's completely inapropriate for you to use this sight if that is your ONLY purpose here. (as if that'll persuade you not to - but I'm getting my two cents worth in here just the same) Again, though, if you do have folk/trad/blues musical interests and want to share them, or ask for info, you've got a great resource at the MC.

-chanteyranger


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Mar 01 - 01:58 PM

Ebbie and Kat - Yup. I understand exactly how you feel about it. I think MAV just got caught up in the "heat of the action", probably...but I may be wrong. Seems to me he said something about music on a couple of occasions, but I'm not gonna wade through all those old threads to see if that's the case at this point.

- LH


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Subject: Who's this MAV??
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 12 Mar 01 - 02:02 PM

ya... what a fuss over someone who's not even POSTING in this thread... are you so desperate to talk about something that you'll talk about ANYTHING?!?!?!

LOL!!


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Mar 01 - 02:10 PM

I think you have hit the nail on the head, Clinton. I am amazed at the things I spend my time doing lately. Like posting to this thread. Not surprised...just kind of passively amazed. Only I ain't laughin'.

It makes me wonder what I actually came here (meaning into this life) to do in the first place...

"If anyone's got an original thought out there, I could use it right now..."

- LH

p.s. Could be a whole lot worse. I could be playing Bingo in a smoky bingo hall, or pumping quarters into a slot machine. I guess I should be thankful.


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Subject: I'd rather that box than this one
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 12 Mar 01 - 02:21 PM

The internet is the mind killer! It is the little death the precedes all other deaths!! I will let the internet pass over me and through me...

For you DUNE movie fans...

LOL!!


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: CarolC
Date: 12 Mar 01 - 02:24 PM

It makes me wonder what I actually came here (meaning into this life) to do in the first place...

"If anyone's got an original thought out there, I could use it right now..."

--Little Hawk

(Little Hawk, get your songs published. That would be a significant contribution to the world... and keep posting to the Mudcat.)


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Mar 01 - 02:27 PM

Well, I appreciate those kind words, Carol.

- LH


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: wysiwyg
Date: 12 Mar 01 - 02:30 PM

Uh-oh, LH. Can I resist the temptation to start a thread begging you to post every one of them?

Perhaps... temporarily.

~S~


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Subject: RE: Welcome new mudcatter MAV
From: beachcomber
Date: 12 Mar 01 - 04:19 PM

Is'nt it MAVellous! Here I am, a mudcatter now for these past 12 months or so (?) and noone ever welcomed me, an I never said anythin' to anyone.


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