Lyr Req: Ancient Gaelic Song

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ancient Gaelic Song
From: ratanna
Date: 15 Mar 01 - 06:22 PM

Hi, guys. Thanks for all the input. I'll check the links out. I forgot to mention what my book was about. It isn't a romance type book but it does have some especially between the two main characters. It isn't about the British and Irish fighting either. It centers around a young woman that wakes up about fifty years into the future. She is partnered with a police detective and together they form a new department in the force. I'm in the process of rewriting the book. Didn't seem to have enough details. LOL! Perhaps the person that told me about the song had heard it in one of those fantasy type movies. Or even read one in a book. Thanks. I do try to do research on things for my writings. It helps the story seem more realistic. Any more great ideas just throw them at me. Thanks alot. Ratanna

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ancient Gaelic Song
From: Noreen
Date: 15 Mar 01 - 10:51 AM

Thanks Bruce.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ancient Gaelic Song
From: GUEST,Bruce O.
Date: 14 Mar 01 - 10:39 PM

First a qualification, "Sheen Sheis Shuus Lum (Sín síos agus suas liom) is the earliest Galic song found with it's music. A few other early ones are known (as for some with music by Carolan) where song is in one manuscript, and what is undoubtably the correct music in another. The song was sung by John Abell at his Stationers' Hall concert in 1716 and printed in 'The Merry Musician' the same year (I've seen it only in the 1730 edition, [copy in Lib. of Congress] and have often kicked myself for not copying it.) It's not in Abell book of 1701, 'A Collection of Songs in Several Languages', in which there are no English or Gaelic songs, and I made theme codes (Breathnach-Gore system) of all the tunes (and compared to "Sheen Sheis"). The tune is an early version of "Banks of Banna / Molly Ashtore / Twisting of the rope (Sueshin ban)/ Sit done beside me (a translation of the early title)/ When tho' unblest we roam. See the Irish tune index on my website for these other titles.

fadas edited by mudelf

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ancient Gaelic Song
From: Noreen
Date: 14 Mar 01 - 09:04 PM

What song is that please, Bruce?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ancient Gaelic Song
From: GUEST,Bruce O.
Date: 14 Mar 01 - 08:39 PM

Thanks for the compliment, and your well stated comments.

There is an ancient Gaelic song, Dierdre's lamentation in "The Tain", but I have only a translation into English. The one that has a tune (and is in English) is apparently of the late 18th century. The earliest Gaelic song with a tune is of 1716 (and three modern books that say it's in a book of 1701 are wrong, editor's again copying from another and not checking. I think this started with a good guess that just wasn't right, by Breandean Breathnach, not a careless schollar by any means)

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ancient Gaelic Song
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 14 Mar 01 - 07:50 PM

I hope that Bruce won't mind my adding a more direct link to the material on his site:  Shule Aroon

It's usually a mistake to describe songs (in almost any European language) as "ancient"; as a rule, two or three hundred years - usually, very much less- is as far as such things can be reliably traced.  A lot of otherwise fine novels are spoiled by silly, romantic anachronisms, often to do with Ireland and Scotland and the "wicked" English!  It's also worth bearing in mind that very few, if any, songs are transmitted in the female line only.  Having said that, I wish you the best of luck with your work; so many people just make things up without bothering to do the research, and it's good to see someone taking the trouble to do it properly.  Bruce, George and Áine are very good people to take advice from.

Malcolm

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ancient Gaelic Song
From: GUEST,Bruce O.
Date: 14 Mar 01 - 07:45 PM

Correction. One of the Irish versions of "Shule aroon" (Siubhail a Gbraidh) on my website isn't earlier than the translation of Grave's reworked version. It is, however, a real traditional version.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ancient Gaelic Song
From: GUEST,Bruce O.
Date: 14 Mar 01 - 07:26 PM

Shule/Shool Aroon

A. P. Graves reworked "Shule Aroon" and Dr. Douglas Hyde translated that into Gaelic about 1890. That's the only fully Gaelic version, so isn't 'ancient'. Four earlier versions, two Scots, and 2 Irish, are given in the Scarce Songs 2 file on my website. It's debatable whether the Gaelic chorus was originally Scots or Irish. The song was probalby known in the late 18th century, but there's no evidence for it that early.

Click

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ancient Gaelic Song
From: Áine
Date: 14 Mar 01 - 06:15 PM

Dear Ratanna,

I'm in agreement with Sorcha and Noreen that Shule Aroon (or 'Síul a Rúin' in the Irish) would be fine for your purposes. It would also be a song with which many of your readers probably would be familiar.

All the best, Áine

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ancient Gaelic Song
From: Sorcha
Date: 14 Mar 01 - 06:10 PM

So it's not a specific song, but any one that will set the mood........Shule Aroon should do fine, then. See Noreen's clickie above.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ancient Gaelic Song
From: ratanna
Date: 14 Mar 01 - 06:03 PM

Hello. Thanks. The feeling ummm. I'll try and describe what I want. Unfornately I have no clue to the title, but it is Irish Gaelic. Unless there is one that could be both. The words and music would both be almost fairy like in sound. It would hold the listerner as if in a trance and invoke a mood of the singer being very far away( calling to her love/soulmate from a distrance). The singer is letting her love know that she is there when he needs her and to come back to her safe. As if he has gone off to fight the enemy. Perhaps it would help to let you know that I'm writing a book and the two main characters are at an Irish Pub/resturant when the girl hears a male band start up a song that she learned as a child from the females of her clan. I don't know if this will help or not. I hope so. Thanks. Ratanna

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ancient Gaelic Song
From:
Date: 13 Mar 01 - 09:55 PM

Fear a Bhàta is another one with the same theme.

Someone is playing with your head. MANY MANY songs are of this type in the Gaelic tradition, both Scottish and Irish, and I'm sure within the Manx, Welsh, Cornish and Breton languages too.

More to the point, Ratanna, what were you looking for? A song for a particular feel? IF so, what kind of a feeling do you want to impart?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ancient Gaelic Song
From: Noreen
Date: 13 Mar 01 - 08:41 PM

The song that springs to mind is Shule Aroon, though as Áine says, it could be one of many from your description. Click here to see the words in the Digital Tradition database for Shule Aroon.

Noreen

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ancient Gaelic Song
From: Áine
Date: 13 Mar 01 - 08:01 PM

Welcome to the Mudcat, ratanna! There are hundreds of songs in Irish and Scots Gaelic with the kind of situation that you're describing. Could you please give us some more information? Is the song in Irish or Scots Gaelic; do you know the name of the person you heard singing it; do you know the title, or perhaps, part of the title?

Any information you can give us would help us to help you.

Again, welcome to the 'Cat, and I hope that we can find your song.

-- Áine

Subject: Ancient Gaelic Song
From: ratanna
Date: 13 Mar 01 - 07:13 PM

Hello. I just jioned the site. Looks interesting! I was wondering if you might be able to help me. I'm looking for an old song that would have been sung by a female asking her true love to come back to her safely and that she's there for him in time of need no matter what. In Gealic with English translation. Is there such a sung. Someone told me that there was but they weren't sure where or anything. Any help would be appreciated. Ratanna