Lyrics & Knowledge Personal Pages Record Shop Auction Links Radio & Media Kids Membership Help
The Mudcat Cafemuddy

Post to this Thread - Sort Descending - Printer Friendly - Home


U.S.A.'s 'Civil War Songs'

Related threads:
Songs of the American Civil War (190)
Civil War Ballads (66)


CRANKY YANKEE 16 Mar 01 - 05:39 AM
Kim C 16 Mar 01 - 10:16 AM
catspaw49 16 Mar 01 - 10:45 AM
SINSULL 16 Mar 01 - 01:49 PM
Jim Krause 16 Mar 01 - 02:04 PM
Irish sergeant 16 Mar 01 - 02:15 PM
wysiwyg 03 Jun 02 - 10:28 AM
Hrothgar 28 Jun 02 - 07:26 AM
Dicho (Frank Staplin) 28 Jun 02 - 04:43 PM
Dicho (Frank Staplin) 28 Jun 02 - 08:20 PM
masato sakurai 28 Jun 02 - 08:29 PM
Haruo 28 Jun 02 - 08:45 PM
Bobert 28 Jun 02 - 08:52 PM
Dicho (Frank Staplin) 28 Jun 02 - 09:04 PM
Haruo 28 Jun 02 - 09:57 PM
Big Mick 28 Jun 02 - 11:16 PM
Dicho (Frank Staplin) 28 Jun 02 - 11:56 PM
Hrothgar 30 Jun 02 - 04:37 AM
masato sakurai 30 Jun 02 - 05:59 AM
Dicho (Frank Staplin) 30 Jun 02 - 04:31 PM
MartinRyan 30 Jun 02 - 07:13 PM
Dicho (Frank Staplin) 30 Jun 02 - 08:51 PM
masato sakurai 30 Jun 02 - 09:15 PM
Dicho (Frank Staplin) 30 Jun 02 - 09:23 PM
masato sakurai 30 Jun 02 - 09:26 PM
Hrothgar 01 Jul 02 - 05:35 AM
GUEST,Doug Giddings, Dhahran, Saudi Arabia 01 Jul 02 - 12:47 PM
Irish sergeant 01 Jul 02 - 04:05 PM
Dicho (Frank Staplin) 01 Jul 02 - 05:26 PM
Uncle Jaque 01 Jul 02 - 09:10 PM
Dicho (Frank Staplin) 01 Jul 02 - 09:26 PM
GUEST 29 Jul 02 - 08:12 PM
Dicho (Frank Staplin) 29 Jul 02 - 09:22 PM
Uncle Jaque 30 Jul 02 - 09:33 AM
MartinRyan 30 Jul 02 - 02:53 PM
Irish sergeant 30 Jul 02 - 03:27 PM
GUEST,Coyote Breath 30 Jul 02 - 05:40 PM
GUEST,Coyote Breath 30 Jul 02 - 05:43 PM
Dicho (Frank Staplin) 30 Jul 02 - 05:54 PM
Uncle Jaque 31 Jul 02 - 12:05 AM
Hrothgar 01 Aug 02 - 07:20 AM
Dicho (Frank Staplin) 01 Aug 02 - 05:09 PM
NicoleC 01 Aug 02 - 08:05 PM
Dicho (Frank Staplin) 01 Aug 02 - 09:43 PM
NicoleC 02 Aug 02 - 01:17 AM
Azizi 20 Jan 12 - 03:12 PM
GUEST,mg 20 Jan 12 - 03:47 PM
Stringsinger 20 Jan 12 - 03:54 PM
Joe_F 20 Jan 12 - 04:11 PM
Share Thread
more
Lyrics & Knowledge Search [Advanced]
DT  Forum
Sort (Forum) by:relevance date
DT Lyrics:



Subject: Lyr Add: DARLING NELLY GRAY^^^
From: CRANKY YANKEE
Date: 16 Mar 01 - 05:39 AM

Hello again, Irish Sergeant.

Henry Clay Work was a very good, prolific and very successful song writer of the 19th Century, In addition to Marching Through Georgia he also wrote, "My Grandfather's Clock", "Father Dear Father" (come home with me now)"Watchman, Strike the Bell" and many others.

Of interest to Bob Bolton and other "Ausie's" and "Kiwi's", He wrote the melody to "Clip Go The Shears" (Watchman Strike the Bell) There's an Englishman's adaptation of Watchman Strike the Bell" Simply called "Strike the Bell" which we windbag sailors still sing when we're sitting around singing songs. First verse and Chorus are:

DOWN ON THE "WELL-DECK" WORKIN' AT THE PUMPS
IS THE STARBOARD WATCH A-LONGIN' FOR THEIR BUNKS.
THEY LOOKS OFF TO WINDWARD AND SEES A GREAT SWELL,
AND THEY'RE WISHIN' THAT THE SECOND MATE WOULD STRIKE, STRIKE THE BELL.

(chorus) STRIKE THE BELL, SECOND MATE, LET US GO BELOW,
LOOK OFF TO WINDWARD YOU CAN SEE IT'S GOIN' TO BLOW.
LOOK AT THE GLASS, NOTICE THAT IT FELL.
WE WISH THAT YOU WOULD HURRY UP AND STRIKE, STRIKE THE BELL.

I'll continue this lyric in another thread entitled, "Strike the Bell" It is a dandy song, worth your attention.

Back to the Civil war.

Sarge: There's Marchin' through Georgia, Tramp Tramp Tramp, Tenting Tonight. When the Roses Bloom Again, My Poor Nellie Gray, which may have also been written by Henry W. Clay, (the melody is the one "Britts" sing "Maggie, Maggie May" to.)and, of course, "The Battle Hymn of the Republic" which is an adaptation of "John Brown's Body", a true Folk Song (I think) On the other side there's "The Bonnie Blue Flag", the Confederacy's National Anthem. It contains the hateful line,".....Fighting for the property we gained through honest toil" ("property" - meaning, "human beings") "Lorena" and, of course, "Dixie"
When I was young and unmarried, I rented a room in the very house in which , The Batle Hymn of the Republic was written. (73 Washington St. in Newport Rhode Island, "The Sanford-Covell House)

I don't believe that "My Poor Nellie Gray" is contained in it's entirety in the Digitrade, so here's the whole song. I've never seen anything but the first verse in any song book.

I
There's a low , green valley by the old Kentucky shore
Where I once wiled many happy hours away,
Sitting and singing by the little cottage door,
Where once lived my darling Nellie Gray

II
When the moon had climbed the mountain, and, the stars were shining too,
I would take my darling Nellie Gray.
And we'd float down the river in my little , red canoe,
while sweetly, my banjo I would play.

(chorus)
Oh my poor Nellie Gray, they have taken her away.
I'll never see my darling anymore.
I'm sitting by the river, weeping all the day.
for she's gone from the old Kentucky shore.

III
I went, one day , to see her, "She's gone", the neighbors say.
"The White man came and bound her with his chain",
"And they've taken her to Georgia, to wear her life away",
"Toiling in the cotton and the cane".

IV
My canoe is underwater, my banjo is un-strung,
And, I'm tired of living anymore.
My eyes will be cast downwards, my song will be un-sung,
While I'm still on the old Kentucky shore.

(repeat chorus)

V
Now my eyes are getting blinded, I cannot see my way.
"Hark", there's somebody knocking at my door.
I can hear the Angels singing, and, I see my Nellie Gray.
Farewell then to the old Kentucky shore.

(final chorus)
Oh my darling Nellie Gray, up in Heaven where they say,
They'll never take you from me anymore.
I'm coming, coming, coming while the Angels clear the way,
Farewll, then, to the old Kentucky shore.


I wrote a WW II parody of "Marching Through Georgia" from a German soldier's point of view, marching through the Soviet Republic of Georgia. (pronounced, GRUZH, just like the word "Groove" with a "zh" at the end instead of a "ve".

Marching Through The Soviet Republic of Georgia
(World War II version) (words by Jody Gibson)

I
Call der good old Panzer, Hans
We're on der "Pusch" again,
All der vay to Moskow mit our "Aryan Supermen".
Dat is if der vedder (weather) our dear fuhrer can detain,
Vile ve is marchin' through "Gruzh"

(chorus)
So, smile, seig-heil, we're on anodder pusch.
Oh, Hell, Mach snell I'm freezin' off mine "Tusch"
Hans, for vonce, beware, mein herr, they're hiding in der bush,
Vile ve is marching through Gruzh.

II
I t'ink I felt a snowflake, und it's getting kind of cold,
and der vinter lasts all vinter in der Soviet, I'm told.
Hand me my entrenching tool, I think I'll dig a hole.
Instead of marching through Gruzh.

(repeat chorus)

III
Look at those Italians mid their singing und their vine,
Instead of singing opera, they should all be cryin'.
It's too late, CAPITULATE, here come der Russian Swine.
No more marching through Gruzh.

(repeat chorus)


I'll go see if "Marching Through Georgia" etc are in the Digitrade data base. If they aren't, Ill be right back.

Jody Gibson


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: U.S.A.'s 'Civil War Songs'
From: Kim C
Date: 16 Mar 01 - 10:16 AM

Isn't it generally regarded that Julia Ward Howe wrote the Battle Hymn of the Republic?

And if you'll permit me, there's plenty of other "property" besides human beings, like lands and houses. Some versions use the word "liberty" instead.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: U.S.A.'s 'Civil War Songs'
From: catspaw49
Date: 16 Mar 01 - 10:45 AM

Hi Crank!!! If you haven't run across it, here's a pretty decent site some of us use at times and she recently updated. Poetry & Songs of the War Between The States

I remember the Black Pearl by the way......small world. Didn't spend much time there though.......but I was 18 and trying to cadge a few anyway(:<))

Spaw


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: U.S.A.'s 'Civil War Songs'
From: SINSULL
Date: 16 Mar 01 - 01:49 PM

Joan Morris has recorded a collection of songs by Henry Work - my favorite "When The Evening Star Went Down". You can find it on her website (her husband is William Bolscum) along with other collections from the Gay Nineties and vaudeville.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: U.S.A.'s 'Civil War Songs'
From: Jim Krause
Date: 16 Mar 01 - 02:04 PM

And speaking of Henry C. Work, he wrote The Ship that Never Returned which got turned into The Wreck of the Old 97 and Charly on the MTA I understand there is a fan club with a newsletter called Back to Work! all about Henry, his life, his songs, tributes, etc, etc.
Jim


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: U.S.A.'s 'Civil War Songs'
From: Irish sergeant
Date: 16 Mar 01 - 02:15 PM

HI All: Thank you all for the music history. I was aware about "My Grandfather's Clock" Either he or George Root wrote the religious song "Wake Nicodemus" also. Thanks again And I'll stay tuned. Neil


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: U.S.A.'s 'Civil War Songs'
From: wysiwyg
Date: 03 Jun 02 - 10:28 AM

This thread is now serving as a continuation of an older Civil War Songs thread that got too long, HERE.

~Susan


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: U.S.A.'s 'Civil War Songs'
From: Hrothgar
Date: 28 Jun 02 - 07:26 AM

Still wondering about the hymn written by William Steffe that provided the tune for "John Brown's Body' and "The Battle Hymn of the Republic."

Has anybody found anything? Mind you, it's a change when I can't find something - and nobody else can either.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: Lyr Add: SAY, BROTHERS, WILL YOU MEET US
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 28 Jun 02 - 04:43 PM

Lyr. Add: SAY, BROTHERS, WILL YOU MEET US

Say, brothers, will you meet us (3x)
On Canaan's happy shore.

Chorus:
Glory, glory, hallelujah, (3x)
For ever, ever more.

By the grace of God we'll meet you, (3x)
Where parting is no more.

Jesus lives and reigns forever, (3x)
On Canaan's happy shore.

See: Say Brothers
@religion @hymn @Civil War

The notes provided at this website say that the song was first published in 1858, and that Steffe was an insurance salesman from Philadelphia. He carried dispatches for General Benjamin Butler during the Civil War. I have nothing that would verify this story.

This site provides several versions of "John Brown's Body."


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: U.S.A.'s 'Civil War Songs'
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 28 Jun 02 - 08:20 PM

"Say, Brother, Who Wrote This Melody?," by Robert W. Allen, has an interesting summary of the arguments concerning this tune which evolved into the "Battle Hymn of The Republic."
In brief, William Steffe (ca. 1830-1890) wrote the song and lyrics, under the title "Say, Bummers, Will You Meet Us," for the Good Will Engine Company of Philadelphia. Steffe, in an 1885 letter, said the words of the hymn, "Say, Brothers, Will You Meet Us" were composed by someone else, and that he couldn't remember the name.

The story is on this website: http://johnbrownsbody.net/SayBrother.htm
Say, Bummers
A rather ignoble beginning for "John Brown's Body" and "The Battle Hymn of the Republic."


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: U.S.A.'s 'Civil War Songs'
From: masato sakurai
Date: 28 Jun 02 - 08:29 PM

Thanks, Dicho, for the links.
~Masato


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: U.S.A.'s 'Civil War Songs'
From: Haruo
Date: 28 Jun 02 - 08:45 PM

So now the question is, where did Steffe's stanzas ask if the bummers would meet us/him/them? On Canaan's happy shore? Or someplace else? And what did "bummer" mean in the jargon of mid-19th-century firefighters? Probably not any of the more recently fashionable things (bad psychedelic drug trip; something regrettable; lazybones or idler). Though it could be a "terms of endearment" type of extension of the last-mentioned sense, I suppose.

Liland


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: U.S.A.'s 'Civil War Songs'
From: Bobert
Date: 28 Jun 02 - 08:52 PM

Well, I'll throw a good one out that I'm sure has never been mentioned. There used to be counrty rock group called Hearts Field from Geogia and they had this guy by the name of Fred Dobbs who wrote and the band recorded a wonderful song entiltled "Drummer Boy". Good song *about* the Civil War from a different perspective...

Bobert


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: U.S.A.'s 'Civil War Songs'
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 28 Jun 02 - 09:04 PM

"To watch the Jordan roll" also may have been used as the last line for one of the verses of "Say, Brothers...." (An unattributed note on Google).
Some websites refer to an "old Methodist hymn." Can anyone find it? There may be more words to the hymn version than so far noted here. Or are references like this purely anecdotal?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: U.S.A.'s 'Civil War Songs'
From: Haruo
Date: 28 Jun 02 - 09:57 PM

Purely anecdotal? Probably. But "anecdotal" isn't synonymous with "incorrect" or "fictional" or "false" or "wrong". "Anecdotal" describes the nature of the available evidence, not its factual status. (The American Heritage Dictionary says "Based on casual observations or indications rather than rigorous or scientific analysis", and mutatis mutandem the term is used of historical as well as scientific data.) I haven't seen a whole lot of contemporary documentation of the 1850s use or text of "Say, brothers..."

But remember when you're talking about rural American hymnody of the 1850s you're dealing with a hymnody that was essentially that of the fasola shapenote tunebook and even of the singing of hymns without any printed words or music. In that tradition there were a large number of stanzas which floated among hymns (as I pointed out in my Amazing Grace pages), attaching themselves to any hymn of the appropriate meter for which additional stanzas were desired. Likewise, hymn stanzas were often truncated or split, with the second half replaced by a stock refrain (of which the refrain to Say, brothers... would be a fine example. Well-known later examples that have survived into 20th century evangelical hymnody include Hudson's "At the Cross", Lowry's "Marching to Zion", and Hudson's "Blessed be the Name of the Lord", but if you look at the shapenote tunebooks of the early to mid 1800s (e.g. Southern Harmony, Sacred Harp, Social Harp, etc.) you'll see that the process was very much alive. So until the actual authorship and initial text of "Say, brothers..." is documented, speculation as to which stanzaic or refrain texts "belong to" the hymn remains just that, speculation, based on (at best) anecdotal evidence.

Sorry to have rambled so.

Liland


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: Lyr Add: SLIGO MUSKETEERS
From: Big Mick
Date: 28 Jun 02 - 11:16 PM

On our new CD (which is in being pressed as we speak) we do a song called "The Sligo Musketeers" which was probably written in the 1880's, but it was about a group of Sligo immigrant lads whose employment digging the Erie canal was interrupted by the American Civil War. Dan Milner (known on Mudcat as Liam's Brother) found the song in an old songster while researching his "The Irish In America" with Bob Conroy. He sent it to me and upon listening to it, could immediately tell that I had to record it. It came out wonderfully, and I think that you will feel the same. Mudcat is a wonderful place.

Here are the lyrics:

Oh, let ye stand from under now and open wide your ears
While I relate the story of the Sligo Musketeers
Sure when we landed on this soil, out West they made us go
And we worked at canaling on the O-hi-o

But when the war it did break out it took our jobs away
We organized a company and went into the fray
We fought the ragged rebels, boys, for many a weary day
But they couldn't bate the Sligo Musketeers

Chorus:

With our ha, ha, ha foot straw, we marched the plain
And many's the time we thought we'd never see our homes again
The rebels fought like devils but their fighting was in vain
For they couldn't bate the Sligo Musketeers


We fought with Banks and Burnside and with Grant we took a hack
But the best of all though he was small was gallant Little Mac
Faith, if they'd let him have his way he'd quickly drive them back
If assisted by the Sligo Musketeers
                           
Sure he knew how to engineer and likewise to command
No matter what your station was, he'd take you by the hand
He looked so noble on his horse when he was in command
Of us fighting boys, the Sligo Musketeers (CHORUS)
               
But now our leave of absence, boys, is very nearly spent
We'd ask ye all to have a smile but we're without a cent
On Erie shares and all such snares our money it is lent
It completely broke the Sligo Musketeers
                                    
We'll say, "Good evening one and all," your pardon too we crave
We did our duty manfully this country for to save
May the shamrock and the stars and stripes in triumph ever wave
O'er the fortunes of the Sligo Musketeers. (CHORUS X2)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: ADD: WE'LL MARCH AROUND JERUSALEM
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 28 Jun 02 - 11:56 PM

I did not mean anecdotal to be incorrectly defined as fictional, false or wrong.

There is a hymn in The Revivalist that brings to mind "Say, Brothers, Will You Meet Us?"

WE'LL MARCH AROUND JERUSALEM.

O brothers, will you meet me
On that delightful shore?
O brethern, will you meet me
Where parting is no more?

And we'll march around Jerusalem,
We'll march around Jerusalem (repeat twice)
When we arrive at home.

O sister, will you meet me?
etc.
O leader, will you meet me?

O preacher, will you meet me?

Young convert, will you meet me?

Yes, bless the Lord, I'll meet you.

Backslider, will you meet me?

American Negro Folk Songs, 1928 (1965), Newman L. White, Appendix, p. 439. Without music. (No. 358, p. 176, in "The Revivalist." I have not seen this compendium).

I am not relating this hymn to "Say, brother....?" nor suggesting that is the "old Methodist hymn" of my previous posting. I mean only that the form and content brings the other to mind.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: U.S.A.'s 'Civil War Songs'
From: Hrothgar
Date: 30 Jun 02 - 04:37 AM

The "Say, Brothers, Wil You Meet Us" is attributed to George Pullen Jackson in another thread.

Did he write it, or is he the editor of a collection that included it, or is it wrongly attributed and belongs to Steffe anyway?

I find it a little bit frustrating not being able to find this stuff out for myself, but maybe it's my lack of Internet research skill that's keeping me from following the right leads.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: U.S.A.'s 'Civil War Songs'
From: masato sakurai
Date: 30 Jun 02 - 05:59 AM

Hrothgar, if you have in mind THIS THREAD (Lyr Req: Say Brothers Will You Meet Us?), I didn't mean at all that there was any authorship of the hymn by Jackson; I was quoting his comments on it. George Pullen Jackson (b. 1874 - d. 1953) wrote several books on White spirituals: among them, White Spirituals in the Southern Uplands (1933), Spiritual Folk-Songs of Early America (1937), Down-East Spirituals and Others (1939), White and Negro Spirituals (1943), and Another Sheaf of White Spirituals (1952).

~Masato


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: U.S.A.'s 'Civil War Songs'
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 30 Jun 02 - 04:31 PM

George Pullen Jackson, some of his works noted above by Masato, is often credited with the "discovery" of Sacred Harp singing, by which is meant that he brought it to the attention of the public and scholars.
On the North Carolina University website, his 1933 book is referred to as "White and Negro Spirituals in the Southern Uplands" (I think "and Negro" is a mistaken addition). He demonstrated that hymn writers of the first half of the 19th C. were unwilling for "the devil to have all the pretty tunes," and started to use folk tunes, turning the old ballads and songs into hymns. He undertook his study of fasola singing while a professor of German at Vanderbilt University. His name is often mentioned in connection with old tunes because he was one of the first to publish them. Information on this and other books bearing on fasola-Sacred Harp is at: Books (Folkstreams website)

This may seem like a digression, but his work has helped us to know a body of songs that were prevalent through the period of the Civil War.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: U.S.A.'s 'Civil War Songs'
From: MartinRyan
Date: 30 Jun 02 - 07:13 PM

Mick

What's with the "With our ha, ha, ha foot straw.." line in the chorus? Or is it "hay"?

Regards


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: U.S.A.'s 'Civil War Songs'
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 30 Jun 02 - 08:51 PM

Back in Mar 16, 2001, Cranky Yankee posted "Nelly Gray" (This title spelling from sheet music in the Library of Congress). The author is Benjamin Russell Hanby of Ohio (Also wrote "Up on the Rooftop"). I don't know the correct title since I can't find a copy of the original (1856). An anecdote says that he wrote the song after meeting an escaped slave, Joseph Selby, on his way to Canada. An odd word or two are different in the sheet I found, but nothing worth recording that differs from the one Cranky posted. There is another verse which comes in near the end in some versions:

Now I'm getting old and feeble, and I cannot see my way.
I can hear someone knockin' on my door;
I can hear the angels singin', and I see my Nellie Gray,
So farewell to the old Kentucky shore.

An old thread, 913, has some comments and partial versions. Nellie

The song has never been put into the DT.
If someone has a copy of the Hanby original, please post. There is a copy at Hanby's house in Ohio (On the Nat. Historical Register) but I don't want to go that far.

The Max Hunter Collection has a version, the last verse:
O, poor Nello Gray, they've taken you away
And I'll never see my darlin', anymore
I'm setting by the river an' I'm weeping all the day
For she's gone from the ole Kentucky shore.
In this version, Nello is in Heaven in verse 3, the canoe is under water in verse 4 but he'll take his darling Nello and float down the river playing his untuned banjo. The "folk process."


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: U.S.A.'s 'Civil War Songs'
From: masato sakurai
Date: 30 Jun 02 - 09:15 PM

The original title is "Darling Nelly Gray". The Levy Collection has two 1856 editions, as well as an 1860 instrumental arrangement piece.

(1) Darling Nelly Gray. Song and Chorus.
Composer, Lyricist, Arranger: By B.R. Hanby.
Publication: Boston: Oliver Ditson & Co., 277 Washington St., 1856.

(2) Darling Nelly Gray.
Composer, Lyricist, Arranger: B.R. Hanby.
Publication: Boston: Oliver Ditson & Co., 277 Washington St., 1856.

There's another 1856 edition (with a different title page) in Richard Jackson, Popular Songs of Nineteenth-Century America (Dover, 1976, pp. 53-56).

~Masato


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: U.S.A.'s 'Civil War Songs'
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 30 Jun 02 - 09:23 PM

Thanks, Masato. I should have looked there. Only slight differences from Cranky's posting- the "red" before canoe should be deleted.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: U.S.A.'s 'Civil War Songs'
From: masato sakurai
Date: 30 Jun 02 - 09:26 PM

DARLING NELLY GRAY is in the DT.

~Masato


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: U.S.A.'s 'Civil War Songs'
From: Hrothgar
Date: 01 Jul 02 - 05:35 AM

Thanks, Masato. I did think that Jackson was only the author and/or collector. I have his "White Spirituals in the Southern Uplands" and I was fairly sure he wasn't a songwriter.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: U.S.A.'s 'Civil War Songs'
From: GUEST,Doug Giddings, Dhahran, Saudi Arabia
Date: 01 Jul 02 - 12:47 PM

For Civil War related songs, look in "Traditional American Folk Songs" by Anne Warner. Fascinating stuff!

British folk music is alive and well here! regards

Doug


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: U.S.A.'s 'Civil War Songs'
From: Irish sergeant
Date: 01 Jul 02 - 04:05 PM

Also there are several songs available on a german site I found type in folk music and it will come up under Volksliedersang I think some of the ones I play at re-enactments include; Listen to the Mockingbird by Septimus Winner, Kathleen Mavourneen by Crouch, Santy Anno, Beuatiful Dreamer and hard Times by Stephen Collins Foster and Marchimg Through Georgia. By the way, Jody that is a heel of a parody you've got there. I know some guys who re-enact german mountyain trooops that would get a kick out of that! Kindest regards, Irish sergeant.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: U.S.A.'s 'Civil War Songs'
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 01 Jul 02 - 05:26 PM

2nd verse missing from the DT version of Nellie Gray


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: U.S.A.'s 'Civil War Songs'
From: Uncle Jaque
Date: 01 Jul 02 - 09:10 PM

Has anyone ever heard of an early CW Soldier's song called "The Bedbug and the Flea"?
We have heard that the tune for this song was "appropriated" by Henry Clay Work for the still - controversial "Marching Through Georgia".
It might be nice to have somewhat less inflamatory yet documented period lyrics to what otherwise is a pretty catchy little tune.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: U.S.A.'s 'Civil War Songs'
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 01 Jul 02 - 09:26 PM

I remember it from childhood, but know nothing of its origins. Forgotten the words as well. Somebody please post.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: U.S.A.'s 'Civil War Songs'
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Jul 02 - 08:12 PM

it's "hay foot, straw foot". Allegedly from the American Revolutionary war. Recruits from rural parts of the country were said to have trouble marching- the "left vs. right" was confusing. They could, however tell the difference between hay & straw. They then tied straw to one foot & hay to the other. The command hayfoot, strawfoot was a marching cadence.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: U.S.A.'s 'Civil War Songs'
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 29 Jul 02 - 09:22 PM

EH?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: U.S.A.'s 'Civil War Songs'
From: Uncle Jaque
Date: 30 Jul 02 - 09:33 AM

Nope; I don't think that's it.
since you mention "Hayfoot - Strawfoot, however "Guest", that reminds me of a fellow I met in Boarding School in Fryeburg ME around 1965 who was a fellow ACW History "Buff". He related several stories handed down to him by his Father from a Great - Grandfather who had fought in the War, including a short segment of a marching or "Cadence" song they used to sing to a common drum cadence "street beat" which I think (I may be mistaken as Im' a Fifer, not a Drummer)is known as "Biddy Oats".
All I can remember (about all that he did)is;

"Ha-AAYfoot, Strawfoot, bellyfulla bean-soup;
March Old Soldier MARCH!;
For it's lEEEEFt; Right; march all night;
(??????...)
(I have since done some "speculative lyric void-filling" and ended the verse with):
Battle at the break of day!
(It fits the meter anyway)

I have noodled around with more speculative lyrics, and sometimes use them when we are doing an "Educational Outreach" Program at a School, forming the students up in the football field and "drilling" them, using the teachers as "File - Closers" and "Company Commanders" (each Class being a "Company" and all participants a "Battalion".
Of course we relate the above story to them, and some kids who seem to have a hard time distinguishing which foot is which, have had the respective materiels laced into their sneakers for the duration of the drill along with the spirited vocal admonition of the NCOs and Officers (that's us Reenactors), much to the delight of their Classmates!

We think that the "Bedbug/Flea" was a popular Fiddle tune early or perhaps prior to the ACW, and adapted to several various "Soldier's Songs", most if not all of which have vanished with those who sang them under the popularity (or contempt, depending on which side of the issue one was on)of WORK's "Marching Through Georgia".

A tidbit of part of the Chorus we think might have gone something like;
"Hurrah; Hurrah!" said the bedbug to the flea;
There's Black; There's White;
(Or during the War: "...Blue; There's Gray;")
Enough for you and me!
So they dined most sumptiously,
and travelled wholely free,
As we were...(????)...
? - "Pickin' Massah's cotton", "Steamin' up to Nashville", "Marching up to Vicksburg"... your guess is as good as mine; fill in the blanks as I'm sure they did as they went along.
It would be nice, however, if we had some documented evidence of what they actually sang back then, if in fact as we suspect this tune existed in a pre-Work, "Folk", and decidedly partisan incarnation.

Now remember to step off on your LEFT foot now, Lads, after the roll - off at the first beat of the music!
Are we ready?
ForwAAAAAARd;.....(Pradiddle FLAM!; Paradiddle FLAM!; 5-point roll, (doubled), FLAM!)...

UJ


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: U.S.A.'s 'Civil War Songs'
From: MartinRyan
Date: 30 Jul 02 - 02:53 PM

GUEST

Yes - that's what I was thinking about "ha-ha-ha foot straw" OK! In Ireland it was allegedly used to teach dancing - think we had marching figured out early on!

Regards


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: U.S.A.'s 'Civil War Songs'
From: Irish sergeant
Date: 30 Jul 02 - 03:27 PM

I hadn't heard that hay foot straw foot was used as early as the American revolution but it does make sense. On occasion, our unit will use "Kemo-Kimo" as a marching tune. the original tune was the march "The Frog in the Well". We usually will do it as an instrumental but if we're doing a tactical we'll use the lyrics. We avoid using the first verse at parades as the lyrics are considered offensive to some. Those of you familiar with the song will know what I'm talking about. We have also adapted a march taught to us by the 25th Massachussetts Infantry using the tune of the Chantey "South Australia" The call response works marvelously for keeping cadence. have a good afternoon. Neil


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: U.S.A.'s 'Civil War Songs'
From: GUEST,Coyote Breath
Date: 30 Jul 02 - 05:40 PM

I have a Mel Bay songbook titled "Ballads and Songs of the Civil War" by Jerry Silverman. It has songs sung by both sides and especially interesting is the "Southern" version of Dixie. The usual "Wish I was in de land ob cotton..." is NOT the Southern version. THAT version goes:

Southrons, hear your country call you! Up, lest worse than death befall you! To arms! To arms! To arms! in Dixie. Lo! all the beacon fires are lighted Let all hearts be now united! To arms! To arms! To arms! in Dixie

Chorus: Advance the flag of Dixie! Hurrah! Hurrah For Dixie's land we take our stand, And conquer peace for Dixie! To arms! To arms!

The original song was written by Dan Emmet, a NORTHERN blackface minstral performer and sung in what can only be described as degraded "Negro" dialogue. Quite insulting for blacks but not because the Confederacy sang it. THEIR version does not attempt to address anythng but battle and the needed valor and sacrifice (for a Confederate victory). It leaves the issue of slavery and race entirely alone.

CB And conquer peace for Dixie!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: U.S.A.'s 'Civil War Songs'
From: GUEST,Coyote Breath
Date: 30 Jul 02 - 05:43 PM

And conquer peace for Dixie! got in the wrong place.

And why am I listed as a guest? Nothing has changed on this end, I assure you. Except I did get zapped during a recent electrical storm.

CB


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: U.S.A.'s 'Civil War Songs'
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 30 Jul 02 - 05:54 PM

The first record of "Hayfoot, strawfoot" is from the early 1800s; an officer of that times tells the story about his use of it (apparently one of his tales about his (presumed)ignorant recruits). The story was transferred to New Hampshire volunteers in the Revolutionary War, and to the Civil War as well. The story probably goes back to at least the Roman legions and their soldiers from among the Scots, Spanish and others.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: U.S.A.'s 'Civil War Songs'
From: Uncle Jaque
Date: 31 Jul 02 - 12:05 AM

Ahoy Neil;

Speaking of the 25th Mass.,(an Ancestor of ours was a Color-Bearer with the Old 25th, wounded at Cold harbor); by any chance are you falling in at the Sutton MA event this coming weekend?
I seem to have evoked the pity of my Adult Female Responsible Guardian sufficiently to cajole a 2-day pass from the galley up here in Yarmouth, ME to join my Pards of the 3rd Maine there.
We recently were accepted as a Line Company of the USV, and this is going to be a USV event, apparently, so as a "Maximum effort" 3rd ME event, most of us are planning to attend.
The Co. Cook just informed me tonight that we have about 40 signed up for the weekend Mess already, so we ought to be able to put around 23 rifles in the field as well as a pretty fair regimental Fife & Drum Corps and support staff.

I will plan on bringing the parlor guitar along if there is room for it (as well as my kit) in the ride I will bum to get there. There ought to be room for the fife and tin whistle, anyway!
It would be grand to jam around the watchfire with ye!

Portraying History "as it was" can be a delicate issue in our modern, sensitive, PC culture where sometimes it seems that the only "history" folks want to hear is the PC approved "revisionist" version where Americans are always the font of every evil in the world, particularly if they are of European descent, male, and/or "religious".
We don't go out of our way to look for trouble, but then we generally will whitewash History about so much (not much if at all) - we try to keep the vulgar language common in CW Camps under control, use the porta-potties in stead of digging "sinks" out behind the tents, and that's about it. If anybody finds our impression paticularly "offensive", they may content themselves with the Kora Temple mini-jeeps in their parade next year, or a herd of blooming goats for all we care; The Third is typically booked up with requests 2 years in advance so needn't tarry where American History offends the delicate sensitivites of the socially enlightened inhabitants.
Having said that, there are some points at which discretion becomes the better part of authenticity; South of the Mason - Dixon Line we generally refrain from that H. C. Work piece previously mentioned; it was a very late-War composition anyway and inapropriate for most impressions to boot. It is written that even General "Uncle Joe" Sherman rather disliked it.

Reenacting is fraught with touchy issues; what do you do when a "person of color" wants to join your unit as a combattant, but the Unit is a portrayal of an "all-White" Company / Regiment, as they were racially segregated even in the Union Army? I have seen some credible accounts of there being more racial integration going on in some Confederate outfits than amongst the Yankees!
Interestingly enough, the Navy was completely integrated, and apparently had been by tradition all along.

Speaking of the Navy; do you know if they ever got a Reenacting Crew up for the USS Contellation? It would be nifty if they could sail her on tour up and down the coast some Summer.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: U.S.A.'s 'Civil War Songs'
From: Hrothgar
Date: 01 Aug 02 - 07:20 AM

Coyote Breath

According to Glass's book "Singing Soldiers" the "Southrons, hear your country call you" was written by General Albert Pike of Arkansas.

"Singing Soldiers" Paul Glass; Musical arrangements by Louis C. Singer; Da Capo Press Inc; New York, 1964; ISBN 0-306-80021-7.

Originally published as "The Spirit of the Sixties."


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: U.S.A.'s 'Civil War Songs'
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 01 Aug 02 - 05:09 PM

"Southrons, Hear Your Country Call You," Lyrics Albert Pike, music J. F. Viereck, opus 562. A few notes only are changed from "Dixie's Land."
Several sets of lyrics were composed to "Dixie's Land," and met with varying success. One that was reprinted several times was "Awake in Dixie." The original "Dixie's Land" continued to be used by many southerners in spite of its northern composer; it was the one that survived to be sung, at least by southerners around 50-75 years ago.
Neither "Southrons, Hear Your Country Call You" (1861) nor "Awake in Dixie" (1862) seem to be in the DT.

Uncle Jaque, people don't realize the low level of literacy and the prevalence of "degraded" dialect of one kind or another among both whites and blacks at the time of the Civil War, particularly outside of the urban environment. PC seems to be severely distorting our knowledge of the past and how people thought at the time.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: U.S.A.'s 'Civil War Songs'
From: NicoleC
Date: 01 Aug 02 - 08:05 PM

I think our modern concept of "degraded" dialect is very skewed. Standardized spelling is a pretty new invention, and mostly an urban phenomenon near the time of Daniel Webster. The newest educational materials were unlikely to find themselves into rural schools very quickly. Until then, there was no such idea as spelling "wrong."

But just because a society or segment of society is not literate or is only partially literate doesn't mean they couldn't speak or think perfectly well. I think it's wrong to necessarily jump to the conclusion that the exaggerated spellings used to indicate accent is an accurate representation of their speech patterns. For example, my great-grandmother, who was never more than barely literate at best, has always had excellent diction and grammar. Way better than mine :) (Of course a mountain farm girl being illiterate was hardly an impediment at the time.)

With radio and TV our regional dialects are homogenizing -- I think it's probably safe to say that dialects were probably stronger then. But war-time songs are also propaganda, and more likely emphasize differences than try for accuracy.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: U.S.A.'s 'Civil War Songs'
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 01 Aug 02 - 09:43 PM

There is a lot in what Nicole Castle says. Going back over family records and Civil War correspondence, I find everything from very good to barely understandable writing. One member of my family tree who went from the farm in western NY to the California Gold fields was unable to read or write. He was a witness at a criminal trial and had to have his mark witnessed. Yet his speech was probably very close to that of his literate cousins, whose letters are quite well-written.

How do you accurately represent dialect in print? Even common dialectisms like heer'd looks odd, but it is as close as I can come in writing, without resorting to the odd symbols a philologist might use. American dialects have largely disappeared over the last 50-60 years. It is a mistake to deny that they ever existed.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: U.S.A.'s 'Civil War Songs'
From: NicoleC
Date: 02 Aug 02 - 01:17 AM

Good question, Dicho. Representing a dialect in print seems to be as much of art as trying to speak in it. I couldn't pinpoint good or bad written dialect, but you sure know it when you're reading it! (I'd write "heared" -- it gets the meaning across to a reader quicker without them having to stop and sound it out.)

Most of my family from that early was completely illiterate, and no apparent desire or need to be otherwise. Yet occassionally I stumble across a surprise. There's a long, eloquent letter in perfect handwriting in one of my ancestor's Civil War pension files from his sister, who by all otjer accounts was a just a plain farm wife. It makes me wonder when and where she aquired such a wonderful education when her own brother couldn't sign his name!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: U.S.A.'s 'Civil War Songs'
From: Azizi
Date: 20 Jan 12 - 03:12 PM

Here's a link to a post that I just published on my pancocojams cultural blog.
http://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2012/01/two-songs-civil-war-colored-soldiers.html Two Songs Civil War Colored Soldiers Sung*


That post features lyrics and videos of these two Civil War songs:

"GIVE US A FLAG" (also known as "The Colored Volunteer"

and

"MARCHING SONG OF THE FIRST ARKANSAS"

*"Colored" was the referent of respect for African Americans during that time. However, that referent has been retired since at least th late 1960s.


-snip-

Your comments are welcome on that blog.

-Azizi Powell


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: U.S.A.'s 'Civil War Songs'
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 20 Jan 12 - 03:47 PM

Interesting...I have a Kindle now and have been reading a number of books on the Civil war and post years...as many by African Americans as I can. My favorite writer in the world is Booker T. Washington..whom I know from vocational education work...he is the saint of that part of education and his words are quoted forever...as applying to everyone..not just the poor, not just this or that group, but everyone. Also..you can read Slave Chronicles, various biographies etc. Very important that we read the words written in those unfortunate days.

One thing I will never ever understand about slavery is not just the terrible rape or bondage or even being purchase reason of women slaves..but the fact that a "master" could willingly father children who would be slaves...his own children.

Anyway, I have a song somewhere about a group of young southern women..the men are all gone, they have no fabric to make clothes out of, their fancy ballrooms are burned to the ground, and they decide to have their dance anyway...They said we'll dance with the old men and the young boys and we'll ask our grannies for their old dresses we'll fix up and we'll clean up the barn and dance there. I have no idea if it is a good song or not..obviously trite, but trite because things like that happened...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: U.S.A.'s 'Civil War Songs'
From: Stringsinger
Date: 20 Jan 12 - 03:54 PM

William Tecumseh Sherman marched through the South, twisting railroad
tracks to make trains inoperable and burning his way from "Atlanta to the sea".
Oddly, he left some structures standing. It's said he had a Catholic girl friend so
some cathedrals were spared. This is one of the most hated songs in the South.
(We love to sing it). Henry C. Work (I think).

"1.Bring the good old bugle boys, we'll sing another song.
Sing it with a spirit that will help the world along.
Sing it as we used to sing it, many thousands strong.
While we were marching through Georgia."

Chorus: Hurrah, hurrah, we'll bring the Jubilee
Hurrah, hurrah, the flag that sets us free.
So we sang the chorus from Atlanta to the sea.
While we were marching through Georgia.

2.So we built a thoroughfare for freedom and its train
Forty miles of latitude, three-hundred to the main.
Treason fled before us for resistance was in vain
While we were marching through Georgia."

Then from the street rhymes in New York City:

"Hurrah, hurrah, my fadder's gonna' get hurt.
Hurrah, hurrah, da dirty sex pervert
For he was very free with me when I was just a squirt.
Hurrah, they're gonna' hurt my fadder.

Hurrah, hurrah, my fadder's gonna' get shot.
Hurrah, hurrah, the dirty drunken sot.
For he was very free with me when I was just a tot.
Hurrah, they're gonna' shoot my fadder."


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: U.S.A.'s 'Civil War Songs'
From: Joe_F
Date: 20 Jan 12 - 04:11 PM

The full text of "Marching through Georgia" is in the DigiTrad. Of the three stanzas omitted above, the first IMO is nasty & the second snide. It is a stirring song, and it was on (IMO) the right side, but I wouldn't sing it.

It is amusing that Work wrote this song almost immediately after the march, before the soldiers were home. So the first stanza is anticipatory sentimentality.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate
  Share Thread:
More...

Reply to Thread
Subject:  Help
From:
Preview   Automatic Linebreaks   Make a link ("blue clicky")


Mudcat time: 21 February 8:27 PM EST

[ Home ]

All original material is copyright © 1998 by the Mudcat Café Music Foundation, Inc. All photos, music, images, etc. are copyright © by their rightful owners. Every effort is taken to attribute appropriate copyright to images, content, music, etc. We are not a copyright resource.