Calling all Martin Guitar Nerds

Subject: Calling all Martin Guitar Nerds
From: Justa Picker
Date: 16 Mar 01 - 04:58 PM

I'm looking for a copy of Mike Longworth's History of Martin Guitars - out of print for a while now. (I have other books on Martins and their histories, but am specifically interested in this one because it has details concerning production runs of various models made over the years that cannot be found in detail either on the Internet or in other books.)

If anyone has a copy they'd like to part with, contact me via PM, or better yet throw it in the Mudcat Auction and I'll make sure I cast the winning bid.

Thanks.

Subject: RE: Calling all Martin Guitar Nerds
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 16 Mar 01 - 06:21 PM

Damn, I thought this was to get our Badges!

Rick

Subject: RE: Calling all Martin Guitar Nerds
From: Lady McMoo
Date: 16 Mar 01 - 06:39 PM

JP

I have a pristine copy which you're welcome to have for free. Just PM me with your details and I'll post it to you. If you really feel you want to pay something then just make a contribution of your own choosing to The Mudcat.

Best regards,

mcmoo

Subject: RE: Calling all Martin Guitar Nerds
From: catspaw49
Date: 16 Mar 01 - 06:42 PM

Mooman, I am impressed! I've always had the utmost respect for you, but this is a really nifty little gesture. You are one helluva' guy!!!

Okay, enough of the sucking up.....got two?

Spaw (:<))

Subject: RE: Calling all Martin Guitar Nerds
From: Lady McMoo
Date: 16 Mar 01 - 06:57 PM

If I did 'Spaw I promise you'd be the recipient of it!

Just glad to be able to help out on this one,

All the best

mooman

Subject: RE: Calling all Martin Guitar Nerds
From: Lanfranc
Date: 16 Mar 01 - 07:28 PM

I lent my copy and never got it back. It was pristine, had my library plate on the flyleaf, and had been signed by Chris Martin.

I'd like it to be returned, someday!

Regards A Martin Guitar nerd of long standing.

Subject: RE: Calling all Martin Guitar Nerds
From: Justa Picker
Date: 17 Mar 01 - 01:09 AM

That's extremely generous of you mcmoo, and I will gladly take you up on your offer. I will PM you the details.
Thanks!

Subject: RE: Calling all Martin Guitar Nerds
From: catspaw49
Date: 17 Mar 01 - 05:05 AM

wait a minute here.......

Lanfranc says........I lent my copy and never got it back. It was pristine...

And mcmoo says.......I have a pristine copy....

So like, who did you loan the book to Lanfranc?

Spaw(:<))

Subject: RE: Calling all Martin Guitar Nerds
From: Lanfranc
Date: 17 Mar 01 - 07:12 PM

not mcmoo, or at least not directly!!

Subject: RE: Calling all Martin Guitar Nerds
From: Willie-O
Date: 18 Mar 01 - 10:43 AM

I have a copy which I got cheap at the Martin factory shop due to a printing or binding error--it had some pages missing, so they stuck in photocopies of the missing pages and sold it to me for five bucks. (in 1983).

:)> Maybee it's extra collectible. But I'm keeping it. (It has the all-important serial-number/year list, as well as production totals for every year through the late 70's)

Fascinating stuff for us devotees.

By the way, my O-18 sounds and plays so great now with new Elixirs on it, I'm playing it as much as I am the Lowden.

W-O

Subject: RE: Calling all Martin Guitar Nerds
From: GUEST,marty D
Date: 18 Mar 01 - 11:42 AM

All the talk about about 0-this and 000-that. Are you allowed to be a Martin nurd if you have one of their low end guitars? Even if your real name IS Martin. A new one yet!

Martin (Dawson)

Subject: RE: Calling all Martin Guitar Nerds
From: catspaw49
Date: 18 Mar 01 - 02:00 PM

Hell Marty, you can be a Nurd and not even own a Martin. Welcome to the club.....remember we have cliques here.....LOL

Spaw

Subject: RE: Calling all Martin Guitar Nerds
From: Willie-O
Date: 18 Mar 01 - 08:06 PM

Well, Martin, that depends. I think of the O-18 as a low-end Martin. Because i spend too much time looking at web pages like this. If pics like these do for you what porn or erotica do for other folks, you are definitely one of us.

Or, try this simple self-test. Imagine the Martin guitar of your dreams. What would you be willing to do to make that guitar yours? If the answer would alarm your spouse or parents, you are in the click.

W-O

Subject: RE: Calling all Martin Guitar Nerds
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 19 Mar 01 - 01:21 AM

WILLIE OHHHHH! Bite your tongue!!

The Martin 0-18 "a low end instrument"??!!

Marty D, don't listen to this man. Obviously that unpolluted country air is getting to him!

Rick (PROUD OWNER OF 50 YEAR OLD MARTIN 0-18.....as if anyone here DOESN'T know by now!)

Subject: RE: Calling all Martin Guitar Nerds
From: reggie miles
Date: 19 Mar 01 - 09:13 AM

I love my D 12-20 even if it looks horrific, has a (newly found) fractured side, (I don't know how it got there really.), the top is starting to get a hole where the pick guard should be, (Do I have that heavy a pickin hand?) and I'm needing two of the twelve replacement Shaller tuners for the slotted head.

Subject: RE: Calling all Martin Guitar Nerds
From: jofield
Date: 19 Mar 01 - 11:03 AM

Nerds, sir! Nerds!

Wonks, perhaps, weinies, even, but never nerds.

...oh, excuse me, I have to read my D-18 a bedtime story.

Subject: RE: Calling all Martin Guitar Nerds
From: jofield
Date: 19 Mar 01 - 11:05 AM

...and then record the serial numbers of my bridge pins.

Subject: RE: Calling all Martin Guitar Nerds
From: Bluebelle
Date: 19 Mar 01 - 01:46 PM

I doubt any Martin nerd would call a OOO or OM a low-end guitar, especially if it is an OM-28V, refitted with bone, fossil ivory, and ebony. It doesn't have quite the boom of a D-28, but comes close and holds its own even in a harddriving bluegrass jam.

Subject: RE: Calling all Martin Guitar Nerds
From: Little Hawk
Date: 20 Mar 01 - 10:41 AM

I recently acquired a very interesting guitar, a 1981 Martin M-38 Grand Orchestra. This guitar is not a dreadnought but has a shape more like a Guild Jumbo, except it's not so deep through the body. In other words, pronounced curves and a very wide lower bout, but shallower from front to back.

It has exceptional sound, and is in pristine condition. Got it from a local luthier, Larry Shannon, a guy who is always finding fine guitars here and there, as well as making them.

I may not have it too long, as the money situation is getting kind tight lately, but it's been a thrill to play it for a while, anyway. Will probably sell it this summer.

In the past I have owned a Martin D-28 (pretty good), a Shenandoah (less expensive and VERY good), and a D-35 (again, pretty darn good). All of those were eventually sold or traded for something else...and so it goes.

- LH

Subject: RE: Calling all Martin Guitar Nerds
From: Whistle Stop
Date: 20 Mar 01 - 01:26 PM

Little Hawk, I used to own an M-36, which was the M-38's little brother. The differences were: (1) where the M-38 had a two-piece rosewood back, the M-38 had a three-piece rosewood back (like a D-35); (2) the binding on the M-36 was a little less ornate -- no abalone around the top (although there was an abalone ring around the soundhole), and no binding around the peghead, and (3) the M-36 had no volute on the neck/peghead joint (who knows why?). Both were great instruments, and it's too bad Martin doesn't make them any more. The M's were large guitars -- the lower bout was wider than a dreadnought -- but they weren't very deep, which means they were quite comfortable to hold. They were very responsive instruments, with plenty of low end but not so much of the boominess you get with a dreadnought. Of all the guitars I've owned and unloaded over the years, this is the one I most regret parting with.

I believe the M series was first constructed by putting a flat top onto the back and sides from an old Martin archtop. If I'm not mistaken, David Bromberg had a hand in its creation; I know he was playing an M-38 when I saw him back around 1980. Great guitar -- if you have to sell it, see if you can find it a good home.

Subject: RE: Calling all Martin Guitar Nerds
From: Justa Picker
Date: 20 Mar 01 - 01:33 PM

Actually Whistle Stop, Martin IS making M-series instruments again. They've simply replaced the "M" model designation with the "OOOO" designation.

I have a good friend with a 22 year old M-38 and it is one of the sweetest fingerpicking instruments I've ever played. There's a standing offer between us that should he ever decide to sell it.......

Subject: RE: Calling all Martin Guitar Nerds
From: Songster Bob
Date: 20 Mar 01 - 01:35 PM

Yeah, if you have to sell it, offer it first here, and then, if there are no takers (unlikely, I'm thinking), make sure to get top dollar for it. If you Ebay it, or do anything online to sell it, GET GOOD PICTURES. Auctions without pictures, even for well-known models, bring anywhere up to 30% less than the same make & model WITH photos. I've got all the Martins I need (though, of course, "need" isn't what's operating here), but some folks don't, so be sure to mention it here.

Or perhaps someone can float a loan? Good collateral there!

Bob Clayton

Subject: RE: Calling all Martin Guitar Nerds
From: Whistle Stop
Date: 20 Mar 01 - 01:49 PM

Thanks for the correction, Justa Picker. I think that I had heard that these had been re-designated as 0000's, but I have yet to see a current one. But I'm glad the folks at Martin realized what a nice instrument they had come up with.

Subject: RE: Calling all Martin Guitar Nerds
From: Bluebelle
Date: 20 Mar 01 - 01:58 PM

Just get comfortable with the term GAS - Guitar Acquisition Syndrome - and all your troubles will be over. Unless, of course, you are in the deathgrip of MGAS - Multiple Guitar Acquisition Syndrome. And, then there's TGAS - Terminal Gas Acquisition Syndrome - whereupon, the only thing your friends can do is try to make you comfortable.

Subject: RE: Calling all Martin Guitar Nerds
From: GUEST,New-Collings-Owning Marmot
Date: 20 Mar 01 - 02:09 PM

Martins! Paff! Piffle! No class whatever!

(Relax. I have four of them in the house, counting my wife's and my daughter's. They just aren't getting played much at the moment.)

P.

Subject: RE: Calling all Martin Guitar Nerds
From: GUEST,a chastened willie-o
Date: 20 Mar 01 - 03:12 PM

`rick, what I meant was partly a reference to the 018's rather humble position in the pantheon. I think of it as a kind of a Shaker guitar, its plain features and perfect proportions bespeak an elegant marriage of form and function. (I've recently been playing mine more than the Lowden, cause it's just so relaxing.)

And also, single-oughts are still undervalued in the market as far as I can see, compared to the bigger ones. I notice some of the serious collectors are seeking them out, for that reason I suspect.

w-o

Subject: RE: Calling all Martin Guitar Nerds
From: Bluebelle
Date: 21 Mar 01 - 03:35 PM

Collectors do seem to be going after the OO's. In my opinion, however, for the picker who plays, that being me, they are too skinny in depth at the lower bout.

New-Collings-Owning Marmot: Why don't you tell the good folk, from whence your new Collings came.

Subject: RE: Calling all Martin Guitar Nerds
From: Midchuck
Date: 21 Mar 01 - 04:59 PM

I've been babbling incoherently ever since I got the shot at it, and I thought everyone already knew. Haven't I babbled on this particular forum?

P.

Subject: RE: Calling all Martin Guitar Nerds
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 08 Nov 01 - 01:43 AM

I thought this would be the most appropriate thread to refresh with this link.

If you like Frank Fords "Frets" site, you will find plenty of interest here. Check out what he says about neck relief in particular, he makes a lot of sense.

Murray

Subject: RE: Calling all Martin Guitar Nerds
From: catspaw49
Date: 08 Nov 01 - 01:49 AM

Ya' know Murray, I could get a lot of neck relief if I didn't have to read your posts.....also some relief in my nether regions.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Calling all Martin Guitar Nerds
From: Amos
Date: 08 Nov 01 - 02:09 AM

Spaw, speak clearly, now. Almost all of you is nether.

Subject: RE: Calling all Martin Guitar Nerds
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 08 Nov 01 - 02:10 AM

if you think you need neck relief after reading my posts now, Spaw, just wait until I get all that fancy HTML down. Then you WILL need to see a specialist.........

Murray

Subject: RE: Calling all Martin Guitar Nerds
From: GUEST,ghost
Date: 08 Nov 01 - 03:24 AM

Just managed to find a 1925 Martin. It has no model number. It has mahogany back and sides with a spruce top. The body is quite small. Could it be an 0-18? I don't know how to tell. It has very sweet tone and is in very good original condition.

Subject: RE: Calling all Martin Guitar Nerds
From: GUEST,Martin O-18 owner
Date: 13 Feb 09 - 08:31 PM

My father had a 1943 O-18 that is in my possession. He was a player for many years, but I don't. E-Bay does not show any O-18s and the 2009 Vintage Guitar Guide does not list any of those models either. How can I find out how much this guitar is worth?
Any help would be appreciated.

Subject: RE: Calling all Martin Guitar Nerds
From: GUEST,jeff
Date: 13 Feb 09 - 09:21 PM

Not being an expert, just a player I'd give an estimate of between 3-4000.00US. It's an educated guess, but a guess just the same. Would suggest googling 'Martin O-18' and see what you come up with in terms of price. Alot depends on condition, documented history, etc.

Subject: RE: Calling all Martin Guitar Nerds
From: van lingle
Date: 14 Feb 09 - 08:30 AM

At www.gruhn.com you can get (purchase) and appraisal from George Gruhn whose knowledge of old Martins and their value is pretty highly regarded.

Subject: RE: Calling all Martin Guitar Nerds
From: Willie-O
Date: 14 Feb 09 - 11:37 AM

1943 0-18? If it is indeed in "very good original condition", ie,

1. original finish intact, with perhaps a bit of playing wear
   
2. no cracks in top or body (or cracks have been properly repaired)
   
3. comfortably playable action (distance from strings to fingerboard) without buzzes.
   

...then Jeff's estimate is probably pretty close, but if you're looking for a quick sale, you may settle for a little less. One thing you should realize though is that since Martin guitars never until recently had adjustable truss rods in the neck, they at some point require a don't-try-this-at-home professional neck reset which MUST be done by a very skilled guitar repair professional. It costs a few hundred bucks and considering its effect on the value--both financial and musical--of the instrument is well worth it.   

Before you do anything rash, though, consider that that's a family heirloom of great intrinsic worth. If you have any family members who play (and are respectful of good instruments), why not offer it to them? It's a fine instrument but money-wise, you're not looking at a fortune here.

Note that the correct designation is 0 (zero) even though we call them "oh-18" in common usage--searching for a zero 0-18 will get you results that letter O-18 won't (although they are often listed as letter-oh). Right now Mandolin Bros in New York has a 1936 0-18 which you should have a look at by comparison: see http://www.mandoweb.com/1_Acoustic.htm

The 1936 is priced at only $3500 (prewar Martins are worth more than post-war; 1943 is transitional) as a "player" rather than "collector-grade" vintage instrument.

Good luck and I hope this instrument finds a good home, or stays with you.

W-O

Subject: RE: Calling all Martin Guitar Nerds
From: GUEST,jeff
Date: 14 Feb 09 - 11:47 PM

Would recommend printing a copy of Willie-O's post as he has given a very succinct, experienced and fair assessment.

You would not receive the same from George Gruhn, I assure you. He'll charge you 50-100.00US for the 'appraisal' and try to accuire the instrument from you for half it's value. He's an angry, embittered, failed musician who carved out a niche for himself by taking advantage of others' ignorance or circumstance and parlaying that into some sort of 'expert appraiser' cache. He's arrogant, intractable and completely corrupt. A glorified pawnbroker. Stay away from him.

This is in no way an indictment of van lingle...what he says IS true.

Subject: RE: Calling all Martin Guitar Nerds
From: Art Thieme
Date: 15 Feb 09 - 12:11 AM

George was already a uniqe individual in Chicago--circa 1966. Had a herringbone D-45 and only could play Wildwood Flower.

Subject: RE: Calling all Martin Guitar Nerds
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 15 Feb 09 - 04:57 AM

Just because it's old, doesn't mean it's good?
Beware of the trap many fall into, of buying something for the name alone.
I know the guest poster wants to sell, but it's still worth bearing in mind. His possibly lovely collectible old Martin, could play like a pile of poop.

Subject: RE: Calling all Martin Guitar Nerds
From: van lingle
Date: 15 Feb 09 - 07:43 AM

Thanks for the info, Jeff. I have never used Mr. Gruhn's services and shouldn't have recommended him without having some experience in dealing with him.

Subject: RE: Calling all Martin Guitar Nerds
From: Cool Beans
Date: 15 Feb 09 - 01:00 PM

Depending on where you live, there may a reputable guitar shop/appraiser near you. For example, Elderly Instruments in Lansing, Mich. charges $20 for a written appraisal; verbal appraisals are free. You have to bring the instrument to them.

Subject: RE: Calling all Martin Guitar Nerds
From: Art Thieme
Date: 15 Feb 09 - 01:51 PM

I'd go with Elderly!!!!!!!!! They're just great people

Art

Subject: RE: Calling all Martin Guitar Nerds
From: Big Mick
Date: 15 Feb 09 - 02:24 PM

Second Art. Elderly sells more Martin guitars than anyone in the US. They have a repair shop that is second to none, and even the Martin people have sent instruments to them for major restoration. They deal in collectable guitars, and especially Martins, on a daily basis and you can trust their appraisals completely. I have never known them to be anything but ethical in their dealings and they are the only luthiers I send my guitars to.

With regard to the comments about George Gruhn, I have never dealt with the man, so I know nothing of his attitude. But it is important for you to accept the responsibility of understanding the approximate value of your guitar before you walk in. The first offer will always be low, regardless of who is making the offer. Some will be ridiculously so. I know that the attitude of the buyer is that they simply make an offer, and it is up to the owner whether they will accept it. I watched a fellow once accept an offer on two guitars his Dad had owned. One was a late 50's Telecaster, the other a late 50's Strat. He accepted a first offer of approximately $6,000 for the two of them. Hell, the Telecaster alone was worth $10,000. I asked him why he sold them, and he said he wanted to buy a Harley. Serves him right. (tongue in cheek comment there, folks). I asked the dealer if he felt bad and he said no. He said he expected a counter that never came. Pay attention, and know approximately what you have before you walk in the door.

Mick

Subject: RE: Calling all Martin Guitar Nerds
From: Midchuck
Date: 15 Feb 09 - 03:22 PM

The trouble with Elderly is that you don't dare go in with a credit card with any credit left free on it.

You also meet people of dubious character there. Mick will attest to this.

Peter

Subject: RE: Calling all Martin Guitar Nerds
From: Big Mick
Date: 15 Feb 09 - 03:24 PM

***ROARING WITH LAUGHTER***

Subject: RE: Calling all Martin Guitar Nerds
From: Art Thieme
Date: 15 Feb 09 - 03:33 PM

Sure, doooby, dooby, dooby-ous character!!!

Art

Subject: RE: Calling all Martin Guitar Nerds
From: Art Thieme
Date: 15 Feb 09 - 03:46 PM

Speaking of Mike Longworth (see first post in this thread), there is one picture of Mike in my photos collection at http://rudegnu.com/art_thieme.html

It was taken back stage at the grand Walnut Valley Festival in Winfield, Kansas. Mike would never forgive me for altering my Martin D-76 guitar--the one I won in a raffle at Chicago's Old Town School of Folk Music. I turned it into a 9-string guitar by putting 3 planetary banjo gears down the middle of the tuning stock.

Art T

Subject: RE: Calling all Martin Guitar Nerds
From: Willie-O
Date: 19 Apr 09 - 09:39 AM

Art, Longworth was probably pissed cause now he'd have to add another page to his book "Martin Guitars: A History" in the weird stuff chapter.

Anyhoo. If anyone's looking for a nice player-grade 1952 000-18, fully restored at a very good price, have a look at this.
1952 Martin 000-18

Its in the Kingston Guitar Shop, Kingston Ontario; I tried it out last weekend. When Gord Mylks, the store proprietor, got the guitar it had no fingerboard! So he very sensibly installed an adjustable truss rod, as well as new fingerboard and frets of course. Gord does very good work (apprenticed with the legendary Rufus Stewart) and is a really nice guy to deal with.

A great sounding and playing guitar--just rings for days. Action is currently set a bit higher than my preference, but still quite good. There has been, in the past, a fair amount of damage to the back and sides, which was repaired and refinished (also in the past--the top is original and unrefinished) but the past damage is quite visible.

Asking price is $2950 Cdn (about $2400 US). This guitar deserves a real folkie owner, it has tons of soul. Compared with the price of 40's and 50's 000's listed elsewhere now, I'd buy this in a flash if I could remotely justify it...which I can't. Have a look, fellow nerds.

W-O