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blues and folk in pop/rock today

Shouter 21 Mar 01 - 02:18 AM
GUEST 21 Mar 01 - 07:54 AM
KitKat 21 Mar 01 - 08:11 AM
Firecat 21 Mar 01 - 09:37 AM
BobP 21 Mar 01 - 09:53 AM
GUEST,Roger the skiffler 21 Mar 01 - 09:57 AM
GUEST,Fibula Mattock 21 Mar 01 - 10:07 AM
LR Mole 21 Mar 01 - 10:55 AM
GUEST,Matt_R 21 Mar 01 - 10:59 AM
GUEST,Matt_R 21 Mar 01 - 11:01 AM
GUEST,Fibula Mattock 21 Mar 01 - 11:04 AM
GUEST,Fibula Mattock 21 Mar 01 - 11:05 AM
Dave the Gnome 21 Mar 01 - 11:07 AM
GUEST,Fibula Mattock 21 Mar 01 - 11:09 AM
GUEST,Matt_R 21 Mar 01 - 11:19 AM
GUEST,Fibula Mattock 21 Mar 01 - 11:31 AM
GUEST,Matt_R 21 Mar 01 - 11:33 AM
Kim C 21 Mar 01 - 12:08 PM
mousethief 21 Mar 01 - 12:09 PM
GUEST,Matt_R 21 Mar 01 - 12:12 PM
mousethief 21 Mar 01 - 12:16 PM
GUEST,Matt_R 21 Mar 01 - 12:17 PM
mousethief 21 Mar 01 - 12:21 PM
texastoolman 21 Mar 01 - 12:34 PM
mousethief 21 Mar 01 - 12:39 PM
texastoolman 21 Mar 01 - 01:05 PM
mousethief 21 Mar 01 - 01:09 PM
Kim C 21 Mar 01 - 03:21 PM
Shouter 22 Mar 01 - 01:47 AM
texastoolman 22 Mar 01 - 03:18 AM
Whistle Stop 22 Mar 01 - 08:26 AM
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Subject: blues and folk in pop/rock today
From: Shouter
Date: 21 Mar 01 - 02:18 AM

hi there, anyone wanna preach on why the blues and folk has disappeared from the pop/rock scene?


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Subject: RE: blues and folk in pop/rock today
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Mar 01 - 07:54 AM

...the premise being that blues and folk have disappeared from the pop/rock scene? Can't accept that. The basic structure is still there - it's just evolved, and continues to evolve. Consider the changes in jazz in the last century from Dixieland to Swing to Bebop to Avant-garde to Fusion to ....it's all still recognizable as jazz.

Blues continues to be incorporated into rock music, and emerging and established artists that are defined as blues musicians are played on rock stations every day (e.g., North Misissippi AllStars, Robert Cray).

Depending on your definition of 'folk' (my definition of folk being very very broad) popular artists like Jewel, Ani DiFranco, Beth Orton, Tracey (sp?) Chapman, Steve Earle, John Hiatt, as well as veterans such as Dylan, Neil Young, James Taylor, continue to work from within the folk structure.


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Subject: RE: blues and folk in pop/rock today
From: KitKat
Date: 21 Mar 01 - 08:11 AM

What about the Corrs? They are really doing a lot to popularise Irish music.


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Subject: RE: blues and folk in pop/rock today
From: Firecat
Date: 21 Mar 01 - 09:37 AM

B*Witched also use quite a lot of traditional influence in their music. Just listen to things like "C'est La Vie" or "In Fields Where We Lay" from the Awake And Breathe album and you'll see what I mean. They also got the help of Ladysmith Black Mambazo for "I Shall Be There" to stick a bit of African traditional music in there.

Does Eva Cassidy count as folk?


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Subject: RE: blues and folk in pop/rock today
From: BobP
Date: 21 Mar 01 - 09:53 AM

I think perhaps I understand a bit of why.

Folk / Blues never disappears and never goes omnipresent.

It sometimes gets a little hard to find.

Because it lacks a key ingredient. Its non-disposable.


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Subject: RE: blues and folk in pop/rock today
From: GUEST,Roger the skiffler
Date: 21 Mar 01 - 09:57 AM

Because of a family connection I ought to plug Turin Brakes an acoustic singer-songwriter duo that have had some publicity lately. I've not heard them but they are supposed to have a folkie sound and good voices (both were choristers at Southwark).
RtS (not on commission, honest)


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Subject: RE: blues and folk in pop/rock today
From: GUEST,Fibula Mattock
Date: 21 Mar 01 - 10:07 AM

argh - not the Corrs, please not the Corrs! I HATE the Corrs. Besides, they need to get out into the sunlight a bit more and get a good feed in them.


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Subject: RE: blues and folk in pop/rock today
From: LR Mole
Date: 21 Mar 01 - 10:55 AM

Yeah...I saw them last Friday morning and if the lead woman wasn't consciously going for the death-on-a-triscuit look she was, nevertheless, achieving it.


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Subject: RE: blues and folk in pop/rock today
From: GUEST,Matt_R
Date: 21 Mar 01 - 10:59 AM

Hey! I love the Corrs! They were one of the groups that got me into both rock and Celtic music. Granted, they aren't folk. I think they want to be, or care. I just think they do kickass music. Their song "Closer" became an anthem for my life, and after years of complaining how impossible it would be for me to write a song, "Closer" was the sang that made me want to write. Plus it also introduced me to major 7th chords. I was just humming "Runaway" yesterday in the bookstore...


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Subject: RE: blues and folk in pop/rock today
From: GUEST,Matt_R
Date: 21 Mar 01 - 11:01 AM

**Ahem** that should read "Granted, they aren't folk. I don't think they want to be, or care.


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Subject: RE: blues and folk in pop/rock today
From: GUEST,Fibula Mattock
Date: 21 Mar 01 - 11:04 AM

Matt, again the gap in our tastes widens! Apart from coming from Dundalk (a fate worse than hell - I do jest, but only a little) I just find their music totally bland and annoying. This might explain why I walked into 4 closthes shops in succession one day to hear them being played as background music. The idea that they can stick a bit of fiddle or whistle in the middle to appeal to the "Celtic Nostalgia" market irritates me further. Of all the fine groups Ireland has to offer, the Corrs are not one. Rant ends!


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Subject: RE: blues and folk in pop/rock today
From: GUEST,Fibula Mattock
Date: 21 Mar 01 - 11:05 AM

hmmm, I should proofread too. A "closthes" shop is a place that sells clothes, honest.


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Subject: RE: blues and folk in pop/rock today
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 21 Mar 01 - 11:07 AM

Corrs used to more 'folky' - I believe the difference came when they changed their manager. I believe they are now managed by Shania Twains husband - who also, I believe, got Ms Twain from country to mainstream - but I could have been miss-led (as usual!)

Cheers

DtG


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Subject: RE: blues and folk in pop/rock today
From: GUEST,Fibula Mattock
Date: 21 Mar 01 - 11:09 AM

So he might be the one responsible for their "Walking Dead" look?


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Subject: RE: blues and folk in pop/rock today
From: GUEST,Matt_R
Date: 21 Mar 01 - 11:19 AM

Well, I think it has a lot to do with marketing that places them as "Celtic." So what's wrong with putting whistle and fiddle in your songs? Is there some law that says nothing can have those particular instruments in without being strict folk? I mean, The Dave Matthews Band consistently features Boyd Tinsely's Cajum fiddling, but DMB is neither classed as "Cajun", nor do they pretend to be. In Roy Wood's 50's-esqu rave-up "Are You Ready To Rock" which is a kinda combo of Billy Haley & The Comets, and Big Band, he puts a pipe band in at the end, playing a pipe tune over the Fender telecasters and the double bass. I don't see anyone are here knocking ol' Roy boy for misrepresentation!


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Subject: RE: blues and folk in pop/rock today
From: GUEST,Fibula Mattock
Date: 21 Mar 01 - 11:31 AM

Nope, no law against it at all, it's just that I find it offensively bland!


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Subject: RE: blues and folk in pop/rock today
From: GUEST,Matt_R
Date: 21 Mar 01 - 11:33 AM

I can't remember the last time I heard "bland" music. But then again I am a musical Jesus.


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Subject: RE: blues and folk in pop/rock today
From: Kim C
Date: 21 Mar 01 - 12:08 PM

There are still lots of blues and folk ELEMENTS in pop and rock music. As several people have commented, these elements evolve and change over time and get used in new and different ways. Pop and Rock have never been pure forms of music and borrow from all different styles. I'm all for it.

I think groups like the Corrs are fun and energetic, and there is a place for them, just like there's a place for songs like "Achy Breaky Heart." They widen the scope of our choices, and what's wrong with the ol' "it's got a good beat and you can dance to it"? Might not spend my money on it, but you may catch me bopping and singing along in the car. :-)


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Subject: RE: blues and folk in pop/rock today
From: mousethief
Date: 21 Mar 01 - 12:09 PM

You walk on musical water? You can be killed with bland music and rise in 3 days? You started a rock group with a few illiterate fishermen and one tax collector? What the hell do you mean, Matt?


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Subject: RE: blues and folk in pop/rock today
From: GUEST,Matt_R
Date: 21 Mar 01 - 12:12 PM

I mean this. Jesus loved everybody. Especially the weak, poor, and undefended. He let them know that He loved them even though others despised and hated them. He even loved the people who killed Him. Now think of that in terms of music. Make sense? That's what the HEAVEN I meant.


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Subject: RE: blues and folk in pop/rock today
From: mousethief
Date: 21 Mar 01 - 12:16 PM

I'm afraid saying "I'm an [adjective] Jesus" just doesn't have that meaning, Matt. The word "Jesus" is just far too loaded to get one simple meaning like that out of it. He was too complex to be used as a metaphor.

Wasn't there something in Exodus about using the Lord's name in vain?


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Subject: RE: blues and folk in pop/rock today
From: GUEST,Matt_R
Date: 21 Mar 01 - 12:17 PM

Not to get in a religious argument, but

Jesus = love. End of story.


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Subject: RE: blues and folk in pop/rock today
From: mousethief
Date: 21 Mar 01 - 12:21 PM

{rolls eyes}


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Subject: RE: blues and folk in pop/rock today
From: texastoolman
Date: 21 Mar 01 - 12:34 PM

have any of you considerde that rap which i personally loathe is a bastardised version of talking blues which spans both blues and folk


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Subject: RE: blues and folk in pop/rock today
From: mousethief
Date: 21 Mar 01 - 12:39 PM

I've considered that, TexasToolMan. Makes a good deal of sense.


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Subject: RE: blues and folk in pop/rock today
From: texastoolman
Date: 21 Mar 01 - 01:05 PM

i like some of the things you say as well mouse just call me tex the rest of it is just for the irs


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Subject: RE: blues and folk in pop/rock today
From: mousethief
Date: 21 Mar 01 - 01:09 PM

I know better than to come between a man and his tax collector. Tex it is.


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Subject: RE: blues and folk in pop/rock today
From: Kim C
Date: 21 Mar 01 - 03:21 PM

Howdy Tex. :-)


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Subject: RE: blues and folk in pop/rock today
From: Shouter
Date: 22 Mar 01 - 01:47 AM

Thanks to all who replied. BobP i personally like your comments. i simply believe that popular/rock music is the poorer for not featuring a Dylan or The Band. i also think that the public image of the blues is only of charicatures: the Buddy Guy-type lead guitarist, the Stevie Ray-like lead guitarist, and the old-timer John Lee Hooker-type. No Muddy, Wolf, or Leadbelly. But not for long....


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Subject: RE: blues and folk in pop/rock today
From: texastoolman
Date: 22 Mar 01 - 03:18 AM

i would say i agree with that last statement there are damn few country blues artist today i was just downloading some Guy Davis from napster and he gives me some hope also Taj Mahal won a grammy for best blues the fact that there even is a czategory for blues is somewhat mind boggling but that shows how long it's been since iwatched the grammys


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Subject: RE: blues and folk in pop/rock today
From: Whistle Stop
Date: 22 Mar 01 - 08:26 AM

If you're looking for depth and musical integrity in pop culture, you're looking in the wrong place. There's blues and folk in rock/pop radio fare, just like there's beef in a McDonalds hamburger -- in other words, not very much, and what is there is very predictable and not very satisfying. Occasionally the musicians run out ahead of the pop culture machine, and you get the good stuff played on pop radio; the creative rock'n'roll explosion of the 50's-60's is fondly remembered for this reason. But the machine eventually catches up and homogenizes the product. In fact, like other businesses, the pop music industry in recent years has gotten better at staying ahead of the musicians and maintaining a nice, predictable market share -- which just means that we have to go elsehwere for the good stuff. Fortunately, there's plenty of it out there.


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