Don't forget Thanksgiving (songs)

Subject: Don't forget Thanksgiving
From:
Date: 05 Nov 97 - 01:55 AM

Crab, crab I hate to see Christmas before Thanksgiving. I've given up on the stores; Christmas is in there now eve before Halloween. Aaaagh!

But on to singing. The first and only one I can think about is "Over the River and Through the Woods". On our way to my mother's the other day I started an updated version of it.

Over the freeways and through the streets
To Grandmother's house we go
The car knows the way
To bring us today
As over the streets we go-oh!

I know it'll be a hoot to see what other verses we'll get

judy

Subject: RE: Don't forget Thanksgiving
From: Alan of Australia
Date: 05 Nov 97 - 02:25 AM

G'day,
Please educate an ignorant Aussie. I keep hearing about Thanksgiving (not one of our customs) but I've never seen mention of the date.

Cheers,
Alan

Subject: RE: Don't forget Thanksgiving
From: Joe Offer
Date: 05 Nov 97 - 04:02 AM

Well, Alan, the first Thanksgiving was celebrated at Plymouth, Massachusetts, for three days sometime in the middle of October, 1621. In 1668, the Plymouth General court set November 25 as the date of Thanksgiving, but other New England communities held the feast on different days. George Washing issued the first presidential proclamation of Thanksgiving, designating Thursday, November 26, 1789, as the date. In 1863, Abraham Lincoln set the last Thursday of November as the date. In 1939, Franklin Delano Roosevelt proclaimed Thursday, November 23, as Thanksgiving for that year Later on, FDR signed a law that made Thanksgiving the fourth Thursday of November. That hasn't been changed for over 50 years now, so I guess it's settled.
-Joe Offer-
(source: "Why Do Dogs Have Wet Noses?" by David Feldman, 1990)

Subject: RE: Don't forget Thanksgiving
From: Earl
Date: 05 Nov 97 - 09:40 AM

Just for completeness, Isn't it an entirely different day in Canada?

Subject: RE: Don't forget Thanksgiving
From:
Date: 05 Nov 97 - 10:08 AM

Yes. Canadian Thanksgiving is in October. We get our own holiday, and then we goof off work on American Thanksgiving to go and have turkey with friends and relations down there. The big thing around here is to goof off on American Thanksgiving and go to the Detroit Lions Thanksgiving home game. We end up with both holidays in the border regions.

The original reason Canadian Thanksgiving is earlier than the American one is because by the time November rolls around there is nothing left of the harvest and snow is often on the ground. This is true of Michigan as well but I suppose the older, southern states set the date for their own convenience and Michigan is stuck with it.

We don't have any associations with Puritans or Roundheads respecting our Thanksgiving. I think officially in the statute books it is a day of thanksgiving to God. I also can't think of any specific thanksgiving folk songs, although there are hymns written for this purpose.

Subject: RE: Don't forget Thanksgiving
From: Sheye
Date: 05 Nov 97 - 10:50 AM

One of my soul mates is a treaty Indian who was raised on a remote reservation before our good catholic fathers ripped from from her grandmother's home for a proper education in a boarding school at the ripe old age of seven. Every Thanksgiving she calls me to tell me, "we shouldn't have, no, really."

It's tongue in cheek and we laugh but I thank her for reminding me that the pilgrim costumes dancing on the school stage only reflect part of the story.

Subject: RE: Don't forget Thanksgiving
From: LaMarca
Date: 05 Nov 97 - 04:32 PM

I remember reading somewhere that Roosevelt pushed Thanksgiving back a week so there would be one more weekend before Christmas. That way, during the Depression, the merchants who displayed their Christmas merchandise starting at Thanksgiving got an extra week of sales. Nowadays, they put up the Christmas stuff in August or something, so I guess FDR's change of the Thanksgiving date has become totally irrelevant...Is the good ol' USA the only nation in the world to have a holiday that seems to be exclusively dedicated to eating too much and watching TV? (Folly, Dissapation, Sloth and Gluttony; these are a few of my Favorite Sins...)

Subject: RE: Don't forget Thanksgiving
From: Alan of Australia
Date: 06 Nov 97 - 12:26 AM

G'day,
Thanks to all especially Joe for the enlightenment.

Cheers,
Alan

Subject: RE: Don't forget Thanksgiving
From: Bill
Date: 06 Nov 97 - 02:53 AM

Howdy All,

I've been told on fairly good authority (and have been spreading the same information since) that Jingle Bells was written for Thanksgiving rather than Christmas. It's a good winter song in general, so I've had no trouble believing it.

Allinkausay,
Bill

Subject: RE: Don't forget Thanksgiving
From:
Date: 07 Nov 97 - 09:04 AM

I don't know where in the continental US you'd get enough snow in November to run a sleigh. Even here in the Great White North it would be a rare occasion unless you were really far north, and up there they use ski-doos not one horse open sleighs:)

Subject: RE: Don't forget Thanksgiving
From: Earl
Date: 07 Nov 97 - 09:31 AM

I agree Tim, I always wondered where, in "Over the River and Through the Woods" they were riding a sleigh through drifts of show on Thanksgiving. Maybe Hollywood. Why are all winter songs associated with Thanksgiving and Christmas and not January and February when we really need them?

My favorite Thanksgiving song is "Alice's Resturaunt" which is played annually by at least one radio station in Boston.

Subject: Lyr Add: MCGINTY'S MEAL AND ALE
From: judy
Date: 07 Nov 97 - 01:23 PM

Joe

Thanks for jumping in with all the info. I always learn something new (native born American). I love books with the origins of things. I have one called something like "Why do they call it..." all about the origins of brand names. There's a great site at www.word-detective.com where this guy takes questions about the origins of words or phrases and often gives a very tongue in cheek answer before he actually answers the question. Another great one is Richard Lederer's site: http://pw1.netcom.com/~rlederer/index.htm He also wrote a great book called "Anguished English" (among others.)

LaMarca,
It does seem to be the one holiday that doesn't get overly commercialized (Hip, hip hurray) since the only thing they can sell for it is food.

But I digress, as we all have. So how about some extra updated verses?

Tim,
Like you I came up with the only Thanksgiving song I could think of. You reminded me of another "The Thanksgiving Hymn" as it was called in my elementary school sixth grade music book (Exploring Music 6). Some of you might remember it starts out:
"We gather together to ask the Lord's blessing. He chastens and hastens, his will to make known."
BTW (by the way) If you're ever trying to find folk music in a foreign country (or even your own), I find elementary school music books are some of the best sources.
Back to the hymn: My book listed the tune as "Wilt Heden Nu Treden Voor God Den Here", a Dutch folk song. In my travels in France I'd met up with a folk song group in a German youth hostel led by a fellow named Joseph Gregor. He went around leading a singing circle and had a prolific collection of folk songs from every country (well, a lot of countries). His followers gave me as many duplicates as they had. One of them is the aforementioned hymn in Dutch. It lists the author of the text as Gedenck-Clank and the tune as folk. I'll add it (with English) to the DT. Here's the first verse:

Wilt heden nu treden voor God den Here,
Hem bovenal lovenvan herten zeer,
En maken goot zijns lieven namens ere,
Die daar nu onzen vijana slaat ter neer

How about other songs not necessarily Thanksgiving ones that mention "giving thanks", "good company", "being thankful", "harvest", and dare I open it up to "food" (and lots of it.) I can think of Johnny McEldoo about three friends who watched their friend cram down an enormous amount of food but when the bill came he thought it was too much, got into a big fight and they all almost got arrested. I learned it from the Clancy Brothers and will try to put it in the DT later. Another wonderful and less well known one with lots of food all over the place (literally) is "McGinty's Meal and Ale" about a pig that gets drunk and the havoc he wreaks.
I've translated as many words as I could at the bottom. It's usually sung at breakneck speed and I'm sure a drop of the cure would be useful to loosen your tongue. So cheers and dig in!

MCGINTY'S MEAL AND ALE
tune: Willie Kemp words(?):George Bruce Thomson

1. This is nae a sang o' love na' nor yet a sang o' money,
Faith, tis' naethin' verra peetifu', it's naethin' verra funny;
But there's Hielan' Scotch, Lowland Scotch, Butter Scotch an' honey
If there's nane o' them for a' there's a mixture o' the three
And there's nae a word o' beef, brose, sowens, sauty bannocks na'
Nor pancakes, paes eggs for them wi' dainty stammicks;
But it's a' aboot a meal and ale that happened at Balmannocks,
McGinty's meal and ale, whaur the pig gaed on the spree.

CHORUS: They were howlin' in the kitchen like a caravan o' Tinkies, aye,
And some were playing ping pong and tiddely, widdely winkies;
For up the howe an' doon the howe ye niver saw such jinkies,
As McGinty's meal and ale, whaur the pig gaed on the spree.

2. Noo, McGinty's pig had broken lowse, an' wannert tae the lobby
Whaur he opened shived the pantry door, an' cam' upon the toddy;
And he took kindly tae the stuff like ony human boddy,
At McGinty's meal and ale, whaur the pig gaed on the spree.
Miss McGinty she ran but the hoose, th' wey was dark an' crookit,
She gaed heelster gowdie ower the pig, for it she never lookit;
And she lat oot a skirl wad hae paralysed a teuchit,
At McGinty's meal and ale, whaur the pig gaed on the spree.

3. Johnnie Murphy he ran efter her, and ower the pig was leapin'
Whan he trampit on an ashet that was sittin' fu' o' dreepin'
An' he fell doon and peel't his croon, an' quidna haud frae greetin'
At McGinty's meal and ale, whaur the pig gaed on the spree.
And the pantry shelf cam' ricklin' doon and he was lyin' kirnin'
Amang saft soap, pease meal, corn floor and yirnin
Like a gollach amang trickle but McGinty's wife was girnin'
At the soss upon her pantry fleer and wadna' lat him be.

4. Syne they a' ran skirlin' tae the door but fan that it was tuggit,
For ay it held the feester, aye the mair they ruggit;
Till McGinty roared tae bring an axe, he wadna be humbuggit,
Na' nor lockit in his ain hoose, and that he'd let them see.
Sae the wife cam' traillin' wi' an axe, an' through the bar was hacket,
And open flew the door at aince, sae ticht as they were packet,
And a' the crew cam' rummlin' oot like tatties frae a backet,
At McGinty's meal and ale, whaur the pig gaed on the spree.

5. They had spurtles, they had tattie chappers, faith they werena' jokin'
And they swore they'd gar the pig claw whaur he was never yokin'
But by this time the lad was fou' and didna' care a dockin'
At McGinty's meal and ale, whaur the pig gaed on the spree.
Oh! There's eelie pigs an' jeelie pigs, an' pigs for haudin' butter,
Aye but this pig was greetin' fou' and rowin' in the gutter,
Till McGinty and his foreman trailed him oot upon a shutter,
Frae McGinty's meal and ale, whaur the pig gaed on the spree.

6. Miss McGinty took the thing tae heart an' hidit in her closet,
An' they rubbit Johnnie Murphy's heid wi' turpentine an' rosit;
Syne they harl't him wi' meal and ale, ye really wad supposit
He had sleepit in a mason' trough and risen tae the spree.
Oh! It's weary on the barley bree, an' weary fa' the weather,
For it's keetcherin' 'mang dubs an' drink, they gang na' wee thegither;
But there's little doot McGinty's pig is wishin' for anither
O' McGinty's meal and ale, whaur the pig gaed on the spree.

We tried to do the best we could with a Scots Dialect dictionary to figure out most of the words. Anyone with more expertise please jump in.

Verse 1
brose: cereal, gruel
sauty: salty
bannocks: muffins
paes eggs: easter eggs

Chorus
tinkies: tinkers, gypsies
howe: house
jinkies: high jinks

Verse 2
wannert: wandered
shived: broken
toddy: alcoholic drink (as in hot toddy)
but the hoose: around the house
heelster gowdie: head over heels
skirl: cry
teuchit: some kind of bird

Verse 3
ashet: pail(?)
dreepin: grease
peel't his croon: cut open his head
quidna haud frae greetin': couldn't help for crying
ricklin' doon: falling down into a loose heap or pile
kirnin': churning(?)
yirnin': whining, grumbling
gollach: some kind of beetle
treacle: something very sweet (maybe molasses?)
girnin': complaining
soss: mess

Verse 4
Syne: then
skirlin': howling, screaming
fan that it was tuggit: when it was pulled
For aye it held ...... : the more they pulled the faster it held
rummlin': falling
tatties: potatoes
backet: package(?)

Verse 5
spurtles: wooden rod for stirring porridge
tattie chappers: potato cutters
they'd gar the pig claw...... : ?
fou: drunk
dockin': ?
eelie pigs ..... : some kind of containers

Verse 6
harl't: bucked up
barley bree: alcoholic drink
keetcherin': ?
dubs: ?

Sorry to take up so much room. But Thanksgiving seems to do that, ya know.

judy

Subject: RE: Don't forget Thanksgiving
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 07 Nov 97 - 03:39 PM

Ah, the problem of names. McGinty was spelled M'Ginty by our contributor; the song's in the database. A much more fruitful search strategy is to search for some unusual combinations: pig turpentine meal ale would have fetched it for ye.

Subject: RE: Don't forget Thanksgiving
From:
Date: 08 Nov 97 - 12:26 AM

In another life when I was a public school music teacher I taught a song about Thanksgiving to primary grade children. It went like this:

A pumpkin ran away / / Before Thanksgiving Day / / Said he, they'll make a pie out of me if I should stay...

I sang it at the monthly meeting of our folk music society here in Little Rock, Arkansas, and several folks helped imagine other verses, as did the children when we sang the song.

Subject: RE: Don't forget Thanksgiving
From: judy
Date: 08 Nov 97 - 01:00 AM

Dick:

Darn! Drat! @#$% !! I did just what you said and looked under McGinty and found nothing. I spent all that time rewriting what was already there! In the same vein as measure twice cut once : look twice, type once

Dennis, I knew a teacher would come through

judy

Subject: RE: Don't forget Thanksgiving
From:
Date: 08 Nov 97 - 11:19 AM

Judy Thanks for your acknowledgment. I probably should state that I am no longer a teacher of music except as a hobby, but the old teaching urge is till there so I teach kids wherever I can find them.

Subject: RE: Don't forget Thanksgiving
From: judy
Date: 10 Nov 97 - 12:33 PM

Looking through an old thread I gleaned this gem.

Subject: RE: Family sing-alongs
From: [e-mail]
Date: 14-Aug-97 - 01:12 PM

To this day, our family has special songs for special days. For instance, my mother and my aunt have an ongoing battle to wake one another up on Thanksgiving morning with this little ditty, sung to the tune of Frère Jacques:

Next Thanksgiving, next Thanksgiving,
save your bread, save your bread.
Shove it up the turkey, shove it up the turkey,
eat the bird, eat the bird.

See "The First Hard Sell" in the DT, a parody to the tune of "The First Noel" addresses the commercialization of our holidays

By the time October comes, every store's lined with snares
With Halowe'en, Christmas and Thanksgiving wares;
What once were festivals that were simple and plain
All have become mere excuses for capital gain

cho: Hard sell, hard sell
Hard sell, hard sell
This is the Christmas we all know so well.

And these two (in the DT) are so short I just had to add them:

SOMEWHERE, OVERINDULGENCE

Somewhere overindulgence is just fine
In a land that I heard of once in a nursery rhyme.
Somewhere overindulgence never ends
And there's no need to worry on what tomorrow sends.
Where lemon drops fall from the sky
And ice cream clouds go floating by above me
Where earth is made of chocolate cake
And mud pies just taste really great
Is where you'll find me...
Somewhere overindulgence is just fine
You can eat all you want to, no one will draw the line.

@parody @food filename[ OVRNDLGE RG

RECIPE FOR HOT CIDER (tune: Ghost of Tom)
(Lorraine Lee)

Swirling snowflakes, winter wind
Welcome wild November in.
Ginger, nutmeg, cinamon, cloves,
Simmer in the cider on the old wood stove.

@round @seasonal @food filename[ HOTCIDER play.exe TOMGHOST RG

and the chorus of "Mrs. Murphy's Chowder"(in the DT):

Chorus
Ice cream, cold cream, benzene, gasoline,
soup-beans, string beans, floating all around
Sponge cake, beefsteak, mistake, stomach ache,
creampuffs, earmuffs, many to be found
Silk hats, doormats, bed slats, democrats,
coco bells, doorbells, beckon you to dine
Meatballs, fish balls, mothballs, cannonballs,
come on in, the chowder's fine

Let's not forget "Thanks"giving (in the DT)
"Come Fill Up Your Glasses"

Our thanks too the fishermen and safe may they toil,
And also to the farmer who turns up the soil;
To the ploughmen and shepherds and all men of worth,
Whose joy is to harvest the fruits of the earth.

bon apetit judy

Subject: RE: Don't forget Thanksgiving
From: Jerry Friedman
Date: 10 Nov 97 - 05:49 PM

At the junior high I went to, we sang the hymn "For the Beauty of the Earth" for Thanksgiving. See your local Anglican hymnal.

Subject: RE: Don't forget Thanksgiving
From: judy
Date: 19 Nov 97 - 05:04 PM

Jerry: Like you we sang a hymm (We Gather Together). Since they can't mix church with school any more I wonder what they do sing? If they do? Thanksgiving has become a little bit un PC(politically correct) for our shabby treatment of the native Americans. But that doesn't detract from the issue of giving thanks in my book.

My kids don't seem to have a Thanksgiving song they know from school. Anyone out there who's kids do? (at public school)

judy

Subject: RE: Don't forget Thanksgiving
From: Nonie Rider
Date: 20 Nov 97 - 02:03 PM

Thanksgiving's certainly another mixed holiday! The American one theoretically commemorates a particular event, but functionally it's just another cultural variant on harvest festivals.

--Nonie

Subject: RE: Don't forget Thanksgiving
From: Sir
Date: 20 Nov 97 - 04:44 PM

1) The original idea for Thanksgiving was taken from a Jewish festival. (read a children's book "Molly's Pilgrim" for how one author illustrates that there are pilgrims around the world today.) As culture the true celebration of Thanksgiving can and should be discussed in American classrooms both public and private. A teacher with holds something from students if s/he does not discuss the the beliefs of the Pilgrims or any other historic figure in whom faith was prominant. 2) The Netherlands were an escape to those seeking religious freedom. That is perhaps the reason we use the song "We Gather Together" at Thanksgiving. 3) A Children's Chant: A turkey named Burt thought he'd make a new dance and he'd dance it for the king and queen. He hoped that if they liked it a lot, they wouldn't eat him; That would be mean. He danced Slide, Close, Slide Close Shake your feathers and tap your toes. He danced Slide, Close, Slide, Close Wiggle your feather and Scatch your nose. (I'll let you imagine the appropriate motions for kindergarten students - they love it.)

Subject: RE: Don't forget Thanksgiving
From: Jerry Friedman
Date: 21 Nov 97 - 01:11 PM

Which Jewish festival was that, Succot? The connection doesn't seem all that close, although they're both versions of the harvest festival that Nonie notes is found in many cultures. And what's the evidence that Thanksgiving is based on Succot? Did Miles Standish write, "Let vs then make merrie and feste like untoe ye feaste of Tabernacles"? Or did some author think, "Thanksgiving's a lot like Succot, so I figure it must be based on Succot, and I'll write that in my book as fact"?

Judy, maybe I should have mentioned that the junior high I went to was private (and non-sectarian though with an Episcopalian tradition), so they could get away with things that public schools already had trouble with--and perhaps it's good that they have trouble.

Subject: RE: Don't forget Thanksgiving
From: judy
Date: 21 Nov 97 - 09:39 PM

Sir: Like Jerry I've never heard the Jewish connection (and I'm Jewish). Most holidays are connected with seasonal changes. Even in sunny LA we sing about the sleigh going over the snow. (and I've never ridden in a sleigh, or a sled for that matter). "Molly's Pilgrim" is a wonderful children's book which I recommend to anyone of any age. It tells of a recent immigrant who doesn't feel connected to the "Pilgrims" until her mother shows her that the Pilgrims were immigrants just like they are. And thanks for the cute Kindergarten story and dance.

Jerry: I must have it on you for years because I learned that song in my public elementary school and there was no issue of singing it or Christmas Carols throughout high school as I can remember.

judy

Subject: RE: Don't forget Thanksgiving
From:
Date: 22 Nov 97 - 07:35 PM

"Did Miles Standish write, "Let vs then make merrie and feste like untoe ye feaste of Tabernacles"?"

No. The Puritans did not make merry. These are the same people who got booted out of England for abolishing Christmas, amongst other outrages against the national character. They claimed to have gone to America to seek religious freedom, but while in control in England they were the greatest religious bigots of them all, jailing all and sundry who didn't follow their narrow ways.

This is not to mention the excursions of that arch-Puritan, Oliver Cromwell, amongst the Scots and Irish -- his name is a curse to them to this day. Add to that any number of vandalized cathedrals and churches. Fittingly, Oliver Cromwell was a distant relation of that earlier curse of England, Thomas Cromwell, who also specialized in looting and damaging churches. No wonder that upon the restoration of the monarchy they dug Oliver out of his tomb in Westminster Abbey, stuck him up on the bar of the Red Lion in Holborne for a while, and then hung him up and chopped him up at the gallows at Tyburn before burying him beneath it. ( His head was visible for some years.)

I'm sure that when the Puritans gave thanks they did so with very long-winded prayers, and dour faces, and a thought that all the blessings in the Bible were for themselves and all the curses for everyone else.

Read Samuel Pepys's description of London in the time of the Puritans in his "Diary", the uncensored version of which is at last available.

Subject: RE: Don't forget Thanksgiving
From: Jerry Friedman
Date: 23 Nov 97 - 01:47 PM

As we are VERY carefully taught in the U.S., the founders of the Plymouth Plantation in 1620 were not Puritans, and had nothing against feasting. However, they were Separatists (what would later be called Dissenters, I think). The real Puritans later founded the Massachusetts Bay Colony nearby, which after a period of not always harmonious relations absorbed Plymouth Plantation.

(On the other hand, how many people in the U.S. know that next year is the 400th anniversary of San Gabriel, the first European settlement in New Mexico, led by that @*#$&$* Juan de Onate?)

Subject: RE: Don't forget Thanksgiving
From: rastrelnikov
Date: 23 Nov 97 - 04:07 PM

Thanksgiving in central Canada. No big deal. Usually turkey. Sometimes the big meal goes down on Sunday, sometimes on Monday night. I think that in earlyish central Canada, we just need holidays at a certain time of year. Victoria Day, the 24th of May, is the day after which it's safe to plant. Thanksgiving (around the 13th of October) is the time to get everything winterized. Turn buckets upside down. Pipes in unheated buildings might freeze solid in any sudden cold spell after Thanksgiving. Songs? None I remember.

Christmas is *it*. The time. See all the relatives again, like it or not, freezing rain, or driving snow. Songs? The old Christian songs with no copyright are best. Happily, though we often drift into the same popular songs hyped in the media, the core of singing is always the old songs.

Last week I went into a Blockbuster video. Hyper syrupy Christmas songs. I never felt sorry for the clerks in there before. It must be torture. I shan't return until after Christmas.

Subject: RE: Don't forget Thanksgiving
From:
Date: 23 Nov 97 - 07:33 PM

But, as I say, Thanksgiving in border areas of Canada means two Thanksgivings. I am off on Thursday to eat turkey at a tail-gate and then attend the Lions' game, indoors sadly.

Christmas? That's the holiday that starts just after Halloween and continues to Boxing Day, after which we go almost immediately into Valentine's Day. It could be apocryphal, but I was once told that there is a radio station somewhere in the US that plays nothing but Christmas music year-round, except on Christmas Day, when it plays Elvis Presley. Can someone advise if this is another urban legend or if this station exists? I seem to recall that it was in Florida.

Subject: RE: Don't forget Thanksgiving
From: Jon W.
Date: 24 Nov 97 - 11:47 AM

Interestingly enough, there was an article in the paper yesterday saying that the Puritans have been getting a bad rap lately - they weren't really all that severe in their social mores and customs. For instance, they heartily approved of sex (within marriage) and even excommunicated a man because his wife complained first to the minister and then to the whole congregation that he was neglecting her in that matter. And while they would fine people for public drunkeness, they did allow drinking in moderation. And they only dressed all in black on Sundays, following the customs of the times. As for Cromwell, the fact that certain men misuse and twist religion for their own purposes doesn't mean that the religion in and of itself is a bad thing.

Now, back to the main theme of this thread. My kids sing a song that goes "The pilgrims and the Indians, made Thanksgiving a long time ago..." I'll see if I can get the rest of the lyrics.

Subject: RE: Don't forget Thanksgiving
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 24 Nov 97 - 01:19 PM

Has anyone encountered the (apocryphal?) story that Squanto was reeally a practical joker, who suggested planting fish along with maize so that the local fauna would dig up the plantings?

Subject: RE: Don't forget Thanksgiving
From: Bert
Date: 24 Nov 97 - 03:29 PM

Tim J.,

Christmas is not supposed to finish until New Year's Day.

There should be a Federal Statute about this somewhere.

The only time I ever heard our history teacher swear was in describing Cromwell's treatment of the Irish.

Subject: RE: Don't forget Thanksgiving
From: judy
Date: 24 Nov 97 - 04:04 PM

Jon W. Send it on!

Everyone:I'm starving! How about some of Momma's Soup Surprise(DT)

Chicken lips and lizard hips and alligator eyes
Monkey legs and buzzard eggs and salamander thighs
Well rabbit ears and camel rears and tasty toe nail pies
Stir 'em all together and it's momma's soup surprise

and to top it off a little Apple Pie(DT):

NEATH THE CRUST OF THE OLD APPLE PIE

'Neath the crust of the old apple pie,
There is something for you and for I
It may be a pin that the cook has left in
Or it may be a wee little fly (a package of black diamond dye)

Oh, it may be an old rusty nail
Or a piece of the pussycat's tail (puppy dog's)
But whate'er it may be
It's for you and for me,
'Neath the crust of the old apple pie.


What will you all be havin'? You can't speak, mind you, only sing about it.

judy

Subject: RE: Don't forget Thanksgiving
From:
Date: 24 Nov 97 - 07:53 PM

From Pepys's description of the Puritans I can't say much for their view of Christianity, and Cromwell was by no means the worst of them. (Pepys, incidently, had some admiration for Cromwell's political and military prowess.)

You may be right about the sex part, but I doubt if it was due to any love of pleasure. I suspect it had more to do with the Biblical command to go forth and multiply. There was only one way to do that back then, and if a man was not doing his duty in that regard he was disobeying God. I think some sects of Puritans (for they weren't all of one mind) also permitted betrothed couples to sleep together.

As to Christmas, by statute and international treaty it should be confined to December 23 to January 1, and I am being generous there. Let people get around it by singing advent carols.

Thanksgiving doesn't seem to have so long a lead-in time as Halloween and Christmas, which is something the turkey and pumpkin producers should be working on. . .

Subject: RE: Don't forget Thanksgiving
From: rich r
Date: 24 Nov 97 - 11:52 PM

I think the party loving pilgrims versus the revisionist light hearted puritans can best be summaarized by the fact that "puritanical" has become part of the language but "pilgramatical" has not.

To muddy the historical waters a little, let me make the case that the first thanksgiving in the colonies was at Berkeley Plantation on the James River in Virginia in December of 1619, the year before the pilgrims landed. It wasn't accompanied by three days of feasting and revelrie which explains why it has been forgotten (In addition the Detroit Lions did not play). Perhaps their PR people weren't very good. After all nobody thinks very much of the Virginia colonists being especially venturous in the area of religion. The Virginia settlers also didn't have the neat outfits. Grade school art class would have been a very different place without pilgrim hats and suits to draw.

rich r

Subject: RE: Don't forget Thanksgiving
From: Charlie Baum
Date: 25 Nov 97 - 01:32 AM

What comes to my mind is the self-reflexive
"We gather together to gather together to gather together to..." [ad nauseam]

The connections between Sukkot and Thanksgiving are not necessarily explicit, but the Pilgrims and Puritans both had a religion very much based on what they would have called Old Testament ideals, and would probably have been aware of Biblical precendents. Of course, after the first gathering in Plymouth, Thanksgiving was a sometime thing, revived by Abraham Lincoln (a man very aware of Biblical references).

And of course, Jews are glad that the Pilgrims landed in Massachusetts instead of Virginia, since Virginia culinary customs and traditional foodways would have led to the custom of a Thanksgiving ham. ;-)

Subject: RE: Don't forget Thanksgiving
From: judy
Date: 25 Nov 97 - 04:41 PM

------------------------------------------------- Have a happy one!

I am thankful to have met all of you and enjoy the singing and conversations we have had.
I am thankful for the knowlege I've gained at this forum
I am thankful to Dick, Susan, Max and everyone else who has given of their (precious) time to set up the DT and maintain it
I am thankful for the internet giving me the opportunity to meet people from all over the world and to gain knowlege right from the comfort of my home
I am thankful for the freenet ISP that allows me to afford to surf the web
I am thankful for the comfort of my home and my living standard
I am thankful for the opportunity to share my songs and (the little) knowlege I have about them
I am thankful for good friends to sing with (and my other friends)
I am thankful for a terrific family
I am thankful for the release of my father from his illness and the deliverance of my mother from a stroke without excessive debilitating effects
I am thankful for a world without a major war going on and hope for the peaceful resolution to all other conflicts

I have a lot to be thankful for. I hope you do too.


Eat and enjoy good company
judy

Subject: RE: Don't forget Thanksgiving
From: Jon W.
Date: 25 Nov 97 - 05:13 PM

With an attitude like that, Judy, I'm sure you'll be understanding when I admit that I can't fulfill my obligation to provide complete lyrics to the "Pilgrims and Indians" song. I did learn from my wife and kids that it was written by Janeen Brady, a local songwriter who specializes in educational/religious/holiday songs for kids. I think the tape we had, which we can't find, had songs for all the major Christian and patriotic holidays. She publishes through an outfit called Brite Music, 3241 S. 500 West, Salt Lake City, UT 84115. They could probably supply the tape for you.

Subject: RE: Don't forget Thanksgiving
From: JMike
Date: 25 Nov 97 - 07:41 PM

I am very thankful for this thread...

Before we absolve the Pilgrims/Separatists/Dissenters/Congregationalists of dourness and general lack of jolliness, let us remember that these are the people who before leaving for America were booted out of Holland (then as now a leader in liberal attitude). They didn't so much want to worship as they pleased (within limits they could do that in England), they insisted everyone else worship as they (the Pilgrims) pleased. They also were completely unfamiliar with the doctrine of separation of Church and State. They had both in the same package. I also believe that the main theological difference between Pilgrims and Puritans (at least in the 17th century) was the Puritans wished to "purify" the Church of England by removing all Roman influence (and most of the fun), sort of the ultimate Low Church. The Separatists actually wanted to found a new church-state, more or less on Calvinist religious/political principles. In practice, it amounted to much the same thing.

In spite of any unharmonious relations, the P & P combine worked very well together at some things (witch hunts come to mind for one)

Subject: RE: Don't forget Thanksgiving
From: judy
Date: 26 Nov 97 - 01:52 AM

Jon : Thanks for the info. Tons of songs have slipped through my fingers too.

judy

Subject: RE: Don't forget Thanksgiving
From: judy
Date: 26 Nov 97 - 02:19 AM

Jon : Thanks for the info. Tons of songs have slipped through my fingers too.

judy

Subject: RE: Don't forget Thanksgiving
From: Bert
Date: 26 Nov 97 - 09:56 AM

I must admit that I enjoyed the Thanksgiving play in "Adams Family Values"

Subject: Lyr Add: THE PILGRIMS AND THE INDIANS
From: Jon W.
Date: 26 Nov 97 - 10:02 AM

Just when I thought all was lost (or at least a lot of tapes), my oldest daughter found a whole box, including (lo and behold) the Janeen Brady tape containg songs about holidays and seasons. Therefore, and not a day too soon, here are the words to the Thanksgiving song:

THE PILGRIMS AND THE INDIANS

The pilgrims and the Indians had a pow-wow a long time ago,
The pilgrims and the Indians felt like having a party and so,
The pilgrims and the Indians cooked a turkey and Indian corn,
Sat down and ate together, and that is how Thanksgiving was born.

The pilgrims and the Indians cooked a turkey and Indian corn,
Sat down and ate together, and that is how Thanksgiving was born.
doo doo doo 'n doo doo doo 'n doo doo da doo.

PS I'm thankful to be a citizen of the United States, whatever non-PC motivations the original colonists might have had.

Jon W.

Subject: RE: Don't forget Thanksgiving
From: judy
Date: 26 Nov 97 - 10:48 AM

The one that didn't get away! Thanx

Subject: RE: Don't forget Thanksgiving
From: Nonie Rider
Date: 26 Nov 97 - 01:07 PM

Guess my family's just not very creative. Our Thanksgiving song is simply the Doxology:

Praise God from whom all blessings flow;
Praise him, all creatures here below;
Praise him above, ye heavenly host;
Praise Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.
Amen.

Sorta seemed to cover the topic of thanks...

--Nonie

Subject: RE: Don't forget Thanksgiving
From: rich r
Date: 26 Nov 97 - 09:48 PM

As Thanksgiving Eve rolls in let me add a few more things I uncovered about "We Gather Together". According to Thodore Raph iin "The Songs We Sang: A Treasury of American Popular Music" (1964, republished in 1986 as "The American Song Treasury) there is some uncertainty as to whether the song domes out of traditional Dutch folk music or was written by the Dutch composer and author, Adrianus Valerius. It was first published by Valerius in a collection "Nederlandtsche Gedenck-Clanck" in the edition of 1621 or 1626. The Gedenck-Clanck attribution cited above would thus be a book source for the song rather than the name of a composer.

Happy day, y'all

rich r

Subject: RE: Don't forget Thanksgiving
From: GUEST,harp
Date: 20 Nov 00 - 08:42 AM

...reheat...

Subject: RE: Don't forget Thanksgiving
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 20 Nov 00 - 01:44 PM

Judy, way back in this thread, recommended grade-school songbooks as a source for folksongs.

As to tunes, MAYBE so. But as to the words, au contraire!

Those grade-school songbooks are full of watered-down, cleaned-up, bowdlerized, shortened, PC-ified, and often (especially when "translated" from foreign-language songs) completely rewritten crap.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: Don't forget Thanksgiving
From: Genie
Date: 20 Nov 01 - 05:23 PM

refresh

Subject: RE: Don't forget Thanksgiving
From: Eric the Viking
Date: 20 Nov 01 - 05:35 PM

Well, have a good thanksgiving.

Best wishes to all in the USA-to late for canada!

Eric

Subject: RE: Don't forget Thanksgiving
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Nov 01 - 05:49 PM

Best wishes to all in the USA-to late for Canada!

Do Canadians go in for some kind of Thanksgiving, but have it on a different date from their southerly neighbours?

Subject: RE: Don't forget Thanksgiving
From: Burke
Date: 20 Nov 01 - 06:31 PM

Here are a couple of thanksgiving themed hymns from the Sacred Harp. They are all fuging tunes needing 4 parts so don't even ask for the midi's.

Present Joys 318

Tune: A. M. Cagle, 1908
Lyrics: Joseph Cottle
Meter: Long Meter (8,8,8,8)

We thank the Lord of heav'n and earth,
Who hath preserved us from our birth.

Chorus:
For present joys, for blessings past,
And for the hope of heav'n at last.

How shall we half our task fulfill?
We thank Thee for Thy mind and will.
(Chorus)

Redeemed us oft from death and dread,
And with Thy gifts our table spread,
(Chorus)

(Also works well with Ballstown by Nehemiah Shumway, 1809)

A Thankful Heart 475

Tune: John T. Hocutt, 1989
Lyrics: Anne Steele, 1760
Meter: Common Meter (8,6,8,6)

Give me a calm, a thankful heart
From ev'ry murmur free;
The blessing of Thy grace impart,
And make me live to Thee.

Let the sweet hope that Thou art mine
My life and death attend;
Thy presence through my journey shine,
And crown my journey's end.