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Help for pickers young and old. part 3.

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Rick Fielding 25 Mar 01 - 10:17 PM
Marion 23 Apr 01 - 12:26 AM
GUEST,marty D 23 Apr 01 - 12:36 AM
Rick Fielding 23 Apr 01 - 11:10 AM
Mark Clark 24 Apr 01 - 01:33 AM
Marion 26 Apr 01 - 12:02 AM
Mark Clark 09 May 01 - 12:19 PM
dick greenhaus 10 May 01 - 09:01 AM
GUEST 10 May 01 - 09:18 AM
M.Ted 10 May 01 - 10:55 AM
Justa Picker 12 May 01 - 05:16 PM
marty D 12 May 01 - 06:03 PM
Murray MacLeod 12 May 01 - 11:03 PM
Justa Picker 13 May 01 - 10:20 AM
M.Ted 16 May 01 - 06:51 PM
Murray MacLeod 16 May 01 - 06:58 PM
Justa Picker 16 May 01 - 07:40 PM
Murray MacLeod 16 May 01 - 08:01 PM
Justa Picker 16 May 01 - 08:11 PM
Murray MacLeod 16 May 01 - 08:19 PM
M.Ted 16 May 01 - 09:42 PM
John Hardly 16 May 01 - 10:26 PM
Murray MacLeod 16 May 01 - 10:42 PM
John Hardly 16 May 01 - 10:54 PM
John Hardly 17 May 01 - 01:26 AM
Justa Picker 05 Jun 01 - 07:05 PM
Marion 21 Jun 01 - 11:55 AM
Rick Fielding 21 Jun 01 - 12:08 PM
GUEST,SharonA 21 Jun 01 - 03:16 PM
Marion 21 Jun 01 - 03:43 PM
Justa Picker 21 Jun 01 - 05:39 PM
53 24 Jun 01 - 01:11 PM
GUEST 25 Jun 01 - 11:18 AM
Peter T. 25 Jun 01 - 11:32 AM
GUEST,Roger the skiffler 25 Jun 01 - 11:40 AM
GUEST 25 Jun 01 - 12:06 PM
Rick Fielding 25 Jun 01 - 12:28 PM
Justa Picker 25 Jun 01 - 12:31 PM
GUEST,53/Glenda, at work 25 Jun 01 - 01:45 PM
Peter T. 25 Jun 01 - 05:32 PM
53 26 Jun 01 - 09:29 PM
Mark Clark 27 Jun 01 - 12:35 AM
Mark Clark 27 Jun 01 - 12:45 AM
Marion 27 Jun 01 - 10:38 PM
GUEST,53, Glenda, at work 29 Jun 01 - 02:52 PM
GUEST,53, Glenda, at work, 29 Jun 01 - 02:59 PM
Mark Clark 29 Jun 01 - 03:54 PM
Mark Clark 29 Jun 01 - 03:57 PM
Justa Picker 19 Aug 01 - 10:50 AM
Marion 20 Oct 01 - 03:11 AM
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Subject: Help for pickers young and old. part 3.
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 25 Mar 01 - 10:17 PM

Hope this works. Here's part two:

clicky

Good example, Justa. The reason "Blackbird" works so well as a tuning...and ESPECIALLY, intonation guide, is there are lots of unisons. If your guitar plays in tune when there are three or four "Gs" (low, high, fretted and open) then you know the saddle and nut are set correctly. It's not always thus. Even on very expensive Martins, the intonation can be out, and you either get 'em fixed or play out of tune.

Rick


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Subject: RE: Help for pickers young and old. part 3.
From: Marion
Date: 23 Apr 01 - 12:26 AM

About that list (in part 2) of guitarists that everyone should know...

Most of them are strangers to me. I have started taking steps to remedy this, i.e., searching my friends' collections and second hand stores for these names. This process has raised a few questions in my mind.

One - should I expect to find all of these names on tape covers eventually? Or are there some who would be found as part of a band, or as an accompanist to another name, rather than having their own names on the tape cover?

Two - I found a B.B.King tape (How Blue Can You Get) and was disappointed to find that it often wasn't easy to hear the guitar - a lot of the time the piano or brass were prominent. Does this mean that I have the wrong tape? Would it be a good idea to recommend album titles rather than names of guitarists?

Three - Jimi Hendrix - I take it that this list isn't strictly acoustic. And are all the names Peter lists (Dave van Ronk, Elmore James, Lonnie Johnson, Joseph Spence; Paul McCartney and Jaco Pastorius) bass players?

I think that a list of good influences would be a good influence on people like me who don't have strong roots in the tradition yet. But I think the list could be a lot more helpful if some information were given about what kind of player the person is, and specific albums were recommended, and if it were pointed out whether an individual is more well known under their own name or under a band name.

What do people think - could there be a thread dedicated to listing important players that students should listen to, with more info about each player listed?

Marion


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Subject: RE: Help for pickers young and old. part 3.
From: GUEST,marty D
Date: 23 Apr 01 - 12:36 AM

Hello Marion. Fancy meeting you here (BG). Dave Van Ronk was one of several people Rick F. suggested I listen to because he usually played solo. He's big on Etta baker as well. She is simply magnificent, and is still playing well into her nineties.

Marty


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Subject: RE: Help for pickers young and old. part 3.
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 23 Apr 01 - 11:10 AM

Marion, when looking for examples of certain artists' playing, often you DO have to make sure that they're not surrounded by orchestras. Tricky.

Lonnie Johnson and Joseph Spence are amazing players to listen to.

Rick


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Subject: RE: Help for pickers young and old. part 3.
From: Mark Clark
Date: 24 Apr 01 - 01:33 AM

Marion,

If you are referring to the list I posted, I think, with the possible exception of Ike Everly, every artist on the list is still available on a brand new CD. Most of them will have CDs that list them as the principal artist. Some were known as side men. Freddie Green can be heard on Count Basie's recordings from the 40's and 50's, Keith Whitley had his own solo career but worked as a member of Ralph Stanley's band in the early 70's. Riley Puckett played in old-time string bands such as Gid Tanner and the Skillet Lickers. Charlie Christian recorded with Benny Goodman plus some tracks taped at jam sessions with Bird and Diz. Still, Christian's work is now published under his own name. Bill Napier recorded with the Stanley Brothers in the 50's and, I believe, recorded with Charlie Moore as well.

Except for Ike Everly, they are all easy to find if you've got money. If, as often happens, you're depending on friends and libraries, some of them might be more of a challenge. And you're right, the list isn't strictly accoustic. I've included old-time, bluegrass, folk, blues (accoustic and electric), jazz, rock & roll, heavy metal, Hollywood session players, finger pickers, flat pickers, thumb pickers, chord players, as many different kinds of guitar players as I could think of right then. They aren't the whole story by any means but listening to them will introduce a player to lots of possibilities on the guitar. They are some of the most well-known players in their respective genres.

The list is too eclectic to be appreciated all at once. If you just introduce yourself to one of them every three months or so you can work through the list in a mere ten years.

      - Mark


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Subject: RE: Help for pickers young and old. part 3.
From: Marion
Date: 26 Apr 01 - 12:02 AM

Thanks Mark, that clarification was helpful.

Marion


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Subject: RE: Help for pickers young and old. part 3.
From: Mark Clark
Date: 09 May 01 - 12:19 PM

This is a link to the Predictable Chord patterns thread. I figured there was too much good stuff in there not to cross reference it. The thread discusses the number system for referring to chords so the changes are without respect to any specific key.

      - Mark


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Subject: RE: Help for pickers young and old. part 3.
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 10 May 01 - 09:01 AM

Ike Everly(with his son Don) recorded six tracks on a Vanguard CD called Nashville at Newport. May still be available.


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Subject: RE: Help for pickers young and old. part 3.
From: GUEST
Date: 10 May 01 - 09:18 AM

The title "The World's Best Unknown Guitarist" has been bestowed on a guy named Scotty Anderson. He plays a Fender Tele plugged directly into a Fender (Twin Reverb, I think) amp. No frills, no special effects, just pure amazing, jaw-dropping technique. He's got a new CD out called Triple Stop, and still plays locally around the Cincinnati, Ohio area. If you want to ruin a serious guitarist's day, turn him/her on to this guy.


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Subject: RE: Help for pickers young and old. part 3.
From: M.Ted
Date: 10 May 01 - 10:55 AM

We must assume that the above "Guest" was either Scotty Anderson or his manager--at any rate, your critic at large checked out the site, which has some Real Audio clips--I encourage you to go listen, simply because you should make a habit of listening to everyone, "good" or "bad"--

He is quick fingered and knows every stock Nashville lick in the book. He seems to play everything with at that Chet Atkins patented clip, and his Tele has that tinny sound that Tommy Tedesco made work so well, particularly on "The Rockford Files". Once you get past the "Wow, this guy is fast" there is not much new--

If you want to find the world's best unknown guitarist--you probably ought to start your search in Philly, head for J.J. Grotto on Friday or Saturday nite, have dinner, or at least pizza, and listen to Jimmy Bruno--he is subtle, facile, and immaginative, and very, very tight--

After your hear Jimmy, look around and see if you can find Steve Giordano--he uses the same musical roots that Pat Methany does, but uses them in his own way--You haven't heard him only because he does not have a personality that fits particularly well into the more commercial aspects of the music business(I don't know him, so I am being careful here, people who do know him can be somewhat more pithy...)

Anyway, I think you should listen to everybody, good, bad, or indifferent, everyone who plays does somthing unique--Maybe you will agree with Scott Anderson's manager, or maybe not--best thing for all pickers is to be out there listening, especially since the food in JJ's Grotto is good, and not expensive--


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Subject: RE: Help for pickers young and old. part 3.
From: Justa Picker
Date: 12 May 01 - 05:16 PM

Excellent article on the causes of string buzzes!...and I just found a Martin Guitar Forum for Martin nerds like me.


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Subject: RE: Help for pickers young and old. part 3.
From: marty D
Date: 12 May 01 - 06:03 PM

Thanks for doing a blue clicky to my Predictable chord patterns thread Mark. Eventually I hope to be able to learn a lot from it.

I think I agree with you Ted. Scotty Anderson IS fast, but I can't hear the "soul". Definitely NOT saying he doesn't have it, it's just not there in those clips to MY ear. I can hear Doc Watson's "soul" in everything he does. Thanks to certain Mudcatters I've also found it in The Carter Family, The Delmore Brothers, and especially Norman Blake.

marty


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Subject: RE: Help for pickers young and old. part 3.
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 12 May 01 - 11:03 PM

MTed, what is your problem when people mention guitar players that you have never heard of? Do you assume that just because you haven't heard of the guy he must be so-so?

And why do you also assume that anyone who mentions an "unknown" (to you, that is) guitarist, must have some ulterior motive? You tried this crap on me once when I introduced a then "unknown" Tony McManus to the Forum.

Personally, I would love to see Scotty Anderson live, and in common with most musicians I prefer to note the opinions of the likes of Danny Gatton and James Burton rather than take heed of your vapid ramblings.

Murray


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Subject: RE: Help for pickers young and old. part 3.
From: Justa Picker
Date: 13 May 01 - 10:20 AM

Discovered this today (for what it's worth).
A program designed to tell you what the chords are when playing with a capo.

Capo Calculator


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Subject: RE: Help for pickers young and old. part 3.
From: M.Ted
Date: 16 May 01 - 06:51 PM

I find it kind of annoying when things read like they were cut and pasted from a press book( when they don't identify themselves, it really looks lame) and I figure if they say it, I have a right to voice my opinion too--No disrespect to Scott Anderson, sorry if it came off that way--only to the hype-- He is obviousl a talented guy and hardworking guy, and I'd respond much positively if someone had been really talking about his music--

People mention musicians and entertainers who are unknown to me all the time--generally I do the best I can to listen to everyone that I hear about--as a guitar teacher, I had to listen a lot, break things down, and figure out how they were played because students always wanted to learn pieces by people they liked--One unfortunate side-effect of doing this over time is that I can come off as being a bit glib and dismissive, and condescending, full of myself--I try to avoid it, but I know I come across that way on ocassion--

I am sure that Anderson puts on a great show--there is certainly a lot of energy in his playing--I would go to see him if I was in the area--(Same with Tony McManus)--


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Subject: RE: Help for pickers young and old. part 3.
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 16 May 01 - 06:58 PM

OK MTed, I apologize for my somewhat acidic posting. No disrespect, but yes, you do come across as "a bit glib and dismissive, and condescending, full of yourself" on occasion. What the hell, I come across as an asshole myself on occasion, when in reality I am the nicest guy in the world. (Or so my SO tells me) You probably are as well.

Murray


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Subject: RE: Help for pickers young and old. part 3.
From: Justa Picker
Date: 16 May 01 - 07:40 PM

Arrogance (or perceived arrogance) can sometimes be an unwitting side effect of talent. It is something that really should be kept in check and not allowed to manifest itself, unless and only, if one is in the company of other like-minded equally or more talented, arrogrant individuals, and it's an acceptable "inside" thing and everyone knows where everyone else is coming from. But even then....?

For those fortunate to have been blessed with genuine God-given talent (in this case musical ability) it is sometimes very easy to forget that not everyone has a similar talent or degree of talent, and a - "Gee I can do it. What's their problem?" - attitude is not the way to look at. Talent is a floating variable. Some people are able to grasp things quicker than others and implement it. One's talent may command respect by one's peers, but un-tempered arrogance attached to it won't win you any fans, and without fans, no one's listening, and, if no one's listening, you then have no peers either.

None of this is directed specifically at anyone in this thread. As I started writing this I thought "Arrogance - A By-Product of Talent?" might make a good thread, for the 6(?) people that would read it, so instead I've posted these thoughts here.

I particularly like how the following quote by Leo Kotke in terms of what he thinks of Pat Donahue's talents as a guitar player, starts out arrogant, and then...well you'll see what I mean.


"I first heard him on the radio and got upset. Then I heard him in concert and got more upset.

He thinks harmonically, improvises beautifully, and writes. If you're a guitar player, he's going to haunt you..."
- Leo Kottke


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Subject: RE: Help for pickers young and old. part 3.
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 16 May 01 - 08:01 PM

Oh Lordy, JP I wish you hadn't written that. I can't resist jumping into threads about merits of guitar players. IMHO, and I have seen them both play on several occasions, close-up and personal, Leo Kottke has no need to be in awe of Pat Donohue as a guitar player, although they are both superb. However, as a songwriter, Pat Donohue is almost unique. He also has the advantage of being a really nice person.

Murray


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Subject: RE: Help for pickers young and old. part 3.
From: Justa Picker
Date: 16 May 01 - 08:11 PM

While I have not seen either live, I am very familiar with both of their abilities and their music, and I agree completely, Murray.

A lot of people took up fingerpicking because of Leo Kotke.


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Subject: RE: Help for pickers young and old. part 3.
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 16 May 01 - 08:19 PM

JP you can include me in that list. I first saw Leo in Edinburgh 1974, part of an Arts Council sponsored tour. He blew my mind. I bought the albums available ("6 and 12-String Guitar" and maybe "Ice Water" ?).

Six months later, the penny dropped that maybe he was not actually playing in standard tuning ...............................

He is truly awesome. (At least as a guitarist)

Murray


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Subject: RE: Help for pickers young and old. part 3.
From: M.Ted
Date: 16 May 01 - 09:42 PM

Just to move the thread back to me for a minute(smile here) as I wait for the Pat Donohoe file to download--Murray, I must congratulate you on your good fortune, since my SO tells me that I am glib, dismissive, condescending, arrogant--but what can one do? At least she puts up with me...

Pat Donohue and Leo Kottke--you'll get nothing glib or dismissive from me on either one--


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Subject: RE: Help for pickers young and old. part 3.
From: John Hardly
Date: 16 May 01 - 10:26 PM

six times.

...and I'll go again when I get the chance. I can't think of a player any more musical than Pat Donohue.

He never allows fingerstyle gymnastics (of which he is non-pariel) interfere with the task at hand--entertaining and moving you with MUSIC.

His "Kingdom Come" is such a finely crafted song I was awe-struck the first time I heard it.

A few years back I was at one of the concerts (at my favorite guitar store) and in attendance was Eric Lugosh. There, in the guitar store during intermission, were two of the finest fingerstyle guitarists in the world, passing a small Lakewood back and forth and discussing each other's take on "Linus and Lucy". It was like the years of McGinnis and Erving together on the sixers, or Pippen and Jordan on the Bulls, or Johnson and Jabbar on the Lakers, or...


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Subject: RE: Help for pickers young and old. part 3.
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 16 May 01 - 10:42 PM

John, I agree with you all the way down the line, except when you say that PD is "non-pareil" when it comes to fingerstyle gymnastics. The fact is that he does have equals, and a (very) few superiors in that area. But his musicality ? The best. And his songwriting is wonderful. Anyone else know his "Mr Soundman" (parody of Mr Sandman) And his "Do You Want to Play the Guitar" (parody of (Swinging on a Star) . Actually, that song should be in the repertoire of every guitar player.

Murray


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Subject: RE: Help for pickers young and old. part 3.
From: John Hardly
Date: 16 May 01 - 10:54 PM

I stand corrected. I've even seen others as skilled in the mechanics. I'm just so taken with the way he makes music. --JH


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Subject: RE: Help for pickers young and old. part 3.
From: John Hardly
Date: 17 May 01 - 01:26 AM

elementary pickology --for those held back by not knowing the huge range of "right" ways of doing things, and how they outweigh the "wrong" ways. …not meant to be exhaustive, just some elementary pick tips.

The sound of a pick can be determined by;

1. The pick material—bone, horn, shell, and varying compositions, density and thickness of plastics.

2. Pick dressing—if you doctor your own picks with emory board, sandpaper, scissors or clippers, you'll notice you can alter the tone with a fresh cut or sanding, just as a pick sounds different with age wearing its edge smooth.

3. The shape of a pick—from round like a Golden Gate, to the point end of a fender style.

4. There is no law that says you can't use the rounded "point" of a tear-drop (Fender style) pick. In fact, you may find advantages other than tone differences by experimenting with either of the rounded points. for instance, with the point as a "tail" resting against your middle finger, you may find you have more control, and the round point's decreased resistance might increase your picking speed.

5. Where and how you hold the pick. Obviously there is a relationship between how close to the tip you hold the pick. The closer to the point, the more rigid the pick will act. The further from the point, the more the pick will be capable of its flexion.

6. The angle of attack on the string. The more parallel to the string the more the string will be articulated, the greater the angle the more round the pick will respond (and the more likely to make noise on the string windings).



Anchors Aweigh

The reasons for anchoring is to give a reference point on the guitar surface for the sake of more easily navigating the strings (how's that for keeping the metaphors naval?). It's easier to quickly find individual strings more accurately if at least some part of your right hand is in contact with the guitar top. The most basic moorings with their elementary plusses and minuses are;

1. Bridge anchoring. This is where you position the heel of your hand against (behind) the bridge. On the plus side this offers an exceptional reference point to enhance your accuracy. It also allows for a great deal of power in your strokes. On the negative side, it really limits the range of motion across the strings to the flexibility of your wrist. It also limits the tonal changes you can coax from your guitar by playing it at different points from neck to bridge. Even with very large hands it is doubtful that you could get the nice round tones on the neck side of the sound hole. You also leave a very heavy part of your hand on the soundboard, thereby limiting its ability to vibrate—you're not maximizing the sound your guitar is capable of

2. Pinky anchoring. With your pinky (some use their ring finger) on the pick guard you have a good reference point, you increase your range of motion—both across the strings and from fretboard to bridge, thereby maximizing the tone you can coax out of the guitar. Your pinky need not be pressed to the guitar's top, therefore the top will vibrate much more than with the bridge anchoring. On the negative side, you will probably sacrifice power to anchor this way, and you may have more trouble with the bass strings, especially on the upstrokes, and especially if your hands are small or unflexible.

3. You can, of course, learn to play without anchoring. A curious irony in this regard is that, though you would assume that a blind player would most benefit from the reference point an anchor gives, Doc Watson plays "floating" over the strings. I know you pick experts. "Floating" refers to playing fretted and adjacent open strings in succession. I just wanted to keep the nautical theme going one more time I would assume that if you can learn to float, all the negatives of anchoring would be negated but that's a very big "if".


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Subject: RE: Help for pickers young and old. part 3.
From: Justa Picker
Date: 05 Jun 01 - 07:05 PM

Interesting thread today, on "Guitars As Investments."

As I spent the better part of an hour putting in my 3 cents worth, I thought it useful for posterity to link to it, in here.


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Subject: RE: Help for pickers young and old. part 3.
From: Marion
Date: 21 Jun 01 - 11:55 AM

Hello folks. I've very much appreciated the links to other tip threads that others have posted in part two, so I thought I'd gather in here some of the educational threads that have been particularly useful to me, or that I have traced in the expectation that they will be useful later.

They are roughly categorized; I couldn't decide if "Smartass titles" needed to be a category of its own.

Bon appetit, Marion

THEORY

Music question: Improvisors?
Predictable chord patterns
Music theory/arrangement question
Modes for Mudcatters: a synthesis primer
Working out chords - through theory?
Is Cm7sus a real chord?
Tech talk: modes and scales again
Weird chords
Blues scale

LEARNING AND PLAYING, MOSTLY GUITAR

Questions about G, D, E7, and A7
Rick's Picking Tips: Questions and Answers
Another bad folkie needs advice
Help: how to train one's ear
What the F is going on at Mudcat?
Could I play like Doc Watson? seriously
Beginner guitar: G chord fingering
Wanting to try some new positions
Turn Mudcat around now
Music sabbatical: what shall I do?
Fingernails vs. fingerpicks
Guitar fingerpicking fun
Our friend the moveable B7 chord
Nurds: other voicings, other chords
Nurd talk: tricks in open tunings
Where's your thumb?
Capo; what are the rules?
Progressions that make you go mmm
Investing in traditional music- why?
Help: leading group singing with guitar
Playing by ear - advantage or disadvantage
Electronic tuners - pro and con
I love major seventh chords
Mudcat seems to be diminished
Fielding thinks he's so G.D. clever
Eee! flat breads are delicious
I need a break from 1, 4,5
Music teaching tips, again
Help: right hand/fingerstyle
Beyond basic chords and picking technique
Hold your pick correctly
Does Mudcat seem to be flat right now?
Dealing with difficult chord progression
Best way to string a guitar
Help: learning to fingerpick
Towards better guitar tuning

SOCIAL/PROFESSIONAL

Booking folk gigs: some suggestions
How do I do a sound check?
To play what you like or what they want
Starting a band: what a pain
Weird open mike etiquette
Picking playing partners
Memorizing songs and performance quality
Keep your day job kid!
When should you be paid for performing?
Jam etiquette


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Subject: RE: Help for pickers young and old. part 3.
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 21 Jun 01 - 12:08 PM

Bloody Marvelous Marion!

Regarding "smartass titles". MEA CULPA IN SPADES! Whatever it takes to get folks in who rarely look at music threads.

Sometimes it gets a bit much to see a hundred posts to something called "Don't post here" and two posts to a thread on the Delmore Brothers. Hmmmmmmm I got an idea.

How 'bout "SOUTHERNER STABS AND DROWNS ADULTRESS"!

Ha, ha! That would hook a few in.......and then we could discuss "Pretty Polly"!

Rick


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Subject: RE: Help for pickers young and old. part 3.
From: GUEST,SharonA
Date: 21 Jun 01 - 03:16 PM

Marion, thanks for that great resource. I have a "social/political" category question, as a newbie: is there an existing thread concerning nastiness exhibited toward performers (by audience, venue owners and personnel, promoters, etc.) and ways to deal with it?

SharonA


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Subject: RE: Help for pickers young and old. part 3.
From: Marion
Date: 21 Jun 01 - 03:43 PM

Sharon:

Hello and welcome to the Mudcat. You might want to check out these threads:

Gig from hell
Your absolute worst audience ever
Dealing with hecklers

though if I recall correctly, these threads are more of an exchange of war stories then a discussion of what to do about problems.

If you want advice on dealing with a particular kind of nastiness you're encountering, don't hesitate to start a thread explaining the dilemma; I have no doubt that many people will offer suggestions, and link you to relevant earlier discussions if there are any.

Rick:

Speaking of smartass titles (I was kind of proud of "wanting to try some new positions" myself), and music threads that should get ongoing attention, I'm just about to add a question to one of the classics. I hope you have time to look in.

Marion


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Subject: RE: Help for pickers young and old. part 3.
From: Justa Picker
Date: 21 Jun 01 - 05:39 PM

New at Elderly Instruments today!

Anyone got a spare 120K they can loan me indefinitely? (I'll do your laundry, bear and raise your children, and be your personal slave for the next 20 years.)

I can manage the other 20 by selling all my guitars and maybe 1 of my kids. Will be drawing straws after supper tonite to see who's leavin' home. :-)


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Subject: RE: Help for pickers young and old. part 3.
From: 53
Date: 24 Jun 01 - 01:11 PM

Thanks for all the tips!!

This is for those interested in learning rhythm guitar:

Even tho' I am a beginner on guitar I have a tip of my own, well, actually Bob's. One of the things that helps me most is playing along with artists' recordings! It works like a metronome but even better, because it has the words and music. This keeps a person in time AND interested AND keeps a beginner from lagging around trying to get a "perfect" chord. Those come as we play them over and over. It also keeps us accurate with the way the song was written to be played rather than how our mind remembers/rewrites it to fit our slow chord changes when we are new.

I have several songs in the "jukebox" on my computer and play with them every evening. This is how I learned to change chords quickly. As long as I kept playing with myself singing, I would stop and change a chord, no matter how long it took, and so was quickly getting discouraged. When Bob added this method to my practice sessions, (within the first two weeks of my playing), improvement was visible- well, audible, immediately. In three months time we have added over 100 songs in my playlist. I do not mean that I can do them all well, but the variety keeps me excited and coming back for more.

I look forward to new challenges but still enjoy those songs that I learned during those first 5 weeks.

Glenda


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Subject: RE: Help for pickers young and old. part 3.
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Jun 01 - 11:18 AM

...plus you get to play with all the best musicians in the recording industry today...like the worlds best unknown guitarist, Scotty Anderson!!!


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Subject: RE: Help for pickers young and old. part 3.
From: Peter T.
Date: 25 Jun 01 - 11:32 AM

Thank you Marion. This should possibly be a permathread.

Concerning playing with records (which I have also started doing, and is a good tip) I have noticed a couple of problems (maybe some of the sages here can help):

I notice that a number of records don't actually fit any of the keys -- I assume that is because they were speeded up or slowed down in the recording process. It is a mild irritant, but I haven't figured out a solution -- I don't have a system that slows fractionally (does anyone outside of a studio?), and the solution that did occur to me, which was tuning down or up the guitar a fraction from standard E or whatever is just too hard for idiot ears like mine.

One gets too ambitious or too discouraged really quickly doing this. You have to restrict yourself deliberately to just hearing the chords change or keeping strict time. Which is tough, given the temptations. Good thing to do though.
yours, Peter T. yours, Peter T.


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Subject: RE: Help for pickers young and old. part 3.
From: GUEST,Roger the skiffler
Date: 25 Jun 01 - 11:40 AM

No, I'm not about to give any musical advice (you know I couldn't) but to reinforce what Peter said about distorted recordings. The great UK trumpeter, Humphrey Lyttleton (still blowing at 80), had only one popular hit: Bad Penny Blues. Trouble was the record company engineers tweaked it so the band couldn't reproduce the sound live, and of course the fans wanted to hear it as recorded.
As a result Humph started his own label (Calligraph) to control his own output, even designs the covers (but he is a talented cartoonist)so it turned out well for his band.
Herself treasures a signed CD we got from him after one concert. But I digress, carry on with the real advice guys...
RtS


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Subject: RE: Help for pickers young and old. part 3.
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Jun 01 - 12:06 PM

Akai makes a relatively cheap analog device called a "Riff-O-Matic" that samples phrases up to 26 seconds in length, and loops them over and over again while slowing the phrase down to as much as 1/3 of its original speed.

It also has a fine tuning function that adjusts the pitch a few cents at a time, up to + or - 100 cents. This usually compensates for most mismatches between the tuning of your instrument and the recording. It also has a switch for adjusting the pitch of the recording in more radical increments, a half step at a time, to a whole step (if memory serves) either above or below the original recording, ostensibly for learning a song in a different key, preferably one more suitable to the vocal range of a singer.

This is only one product of many on the market that do this type of thing. There are others - better - for more money, of course.

While good for learning a song a phrase at a time, it does nothing to help the accompanist play along to the complete song. More computer literate members may be able to steer you in the direction of software that does the same thing for complete songs.


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Subject: RE: Help for pickers young and old. part 3.
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 25 Jun 01 - 12:28 PM

Peter, that (slightly above or below pitch) can be a HUGE distraction! Get a small tape recorder with a pitch control. Sony makes one which is available at BayBloor Radio or The Sony Shop in downtown Toronto.

Sometimes it's because the players deliberately tuned up (Flatt and Scruggs, Stanleys) sometimes it's because the record company (!!!!) decided to speed up the recording to make it sound more dynamic (I'm not kidding!) but whatever the reason, it makes it difficult to keep "a sound" in your head when learning.

Rick


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Subject: RE: Help for pickers young and old. part 3.
From: Justa Picker
Date: 25 Jun 01 - 12:31 PM

In those instances, I just "transpose" the sound to the nearest available key, and work it out from there.


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Subject: RE: Help for pickers young and old. part 3.
From: GUEST,53/Glenda, at work
Date: 25 Jun 01 - 01:45 PM

There are only a few numbers that we can't play along with because of the tuning. If we want to play with them "badly enough" then Bob just tunes the guitar up or down a bit. But his 36 years experience, and his ear for the exact sound, makes him able to do that.

Most of the songs just have been caped and he easily decides where we need to cape it to play it with the artist. Sometimes he plays it open and I play it caped for a great sound.

Anyway, I am glad to hear that others enjoy playing along with the recordings too.

Glenda


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Subject: RE: Help for pickers young and old. part 3.
From: Peter T.
Date: 25 Jun 01 - 05:32 PM

Thanks, Advisors.
yours, Peter T (slightly sharp)


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Subject: RE: Help for pickers young and old. part 3.
From: 53
Date: 26 Jun 01 - 09:29 PM

For a variety of topics and good acoustic guitar advise some of you may like http://www.nb.net/~alanb/index.htm

Check it out.

Glenda and Bob


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Subject: RE: Help for pickers young and old. part 3.
From: Mark Clark
Date: 27 Jun 01 - 12:35 AM

Well I tried using http://www.nb.net/~alanb/index.htm but only got an error message.

      - Mark


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Subject: RE: Help for pickers young and old. part 3.
From: Mark Clark
Date: 27 Jun 01 - 12:45 AM

Whaddyaknow, the blicky actually worked.


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Subject: RE: Help for pickers young and old. part 3.
From: Marion
Date: 27 Jun 01 - 10:38 PM

Peter, actually this is a permathread; it's a continuation of "Help For Pickers". What I'd like to see is more of the technique threads brought up again and expanded, but I'm reluctant to gratuitously refresh them without an excuse to add to them. There is so much good stuff on old threads that have slipped out of the common sight and memory - I often find digging around the archives to be more interesting than looking through the current threads.

There's another advantage to playing along to recordings that hasn't been mentioned yet - unlike real live jam buddies, recordings don't get annoyed or thrown off no matter how badly you play. So you feel less self conscious and more free to mess around trying to find chords or improvise, or at least I do.

Random tip:

If you take a pee break in the middle of a practice session, and wash your hands in cold water, you need to do whatever you do for a warmup again before proceeding.

Marion


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Subject: RE: Help for pickers young and old. part 3.
From: GUEST,53, Glenda, at work
Date: 29 Jun 01 - 02:52 PM

What happened with my last post? Is there a rule against inserting a URL for another site? I know I included one for a guitar site? I am not sure why it doesn't show up - can someone PM me or answer this post?

Glenda


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Subject: RE: Help for pickers young and old. part 3.
From: GUEST,53, Glenda, at work,
Date: 29 Jun 01 - 02:59 PM

Duh!

It is in the next post after mine.

Thanks, Mark Clark, for fixing it so it is a Blue Clicky!!

It works for me!!

Glenda


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Subject: RE: Help for pickers young and old. part 3.
From: Mark Clark
Date: 29 Jun 01 - 03:54 PM

No problem, Glenda, glad to help out. Your problem was that you entered your active link as follows:

<:www.nb.net/~alanb/index.htm>

That form is not syntactically complete for an active link. You should have entered:

<a href="www.nb.net/~alanb/index.htm">your underlined text</a>

or if you wanted to provide a new window for the convenience of the user, you could have used:

<a target="_new" href="www.nb.net/~alanb/index.htm">your underlined text</a>

Joe Offer has collected a lot of good HTML technical advice in a PermaThread. You might find it helpful.

      - Mark


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Subject: RE: Help for pickers young and old. part 3.
From: Mark Clark
Date: 29 Jun 01 - 03:57 PM

Oops, now I'm getting sloppy. All the www references in the preceeding examples should be prefaced with http:\ Sorry about the oversight.

      - Mark


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Subject: RE: Help for pickers young and old. part 3.
From: Justa Picker
Date: 19 Aug 01 - 10:50 AM

Just thought I'd add this link here. This is a site that deals with musically-related injuries and preventive measures.

Clicky


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Subject: RE: Help for pickers young and old. part 3.
From: Marion
Date: 20 Oct 01 - 03:11 AM

A few more links:

How can they play that fast?
Playing partial chords
Flatpicking + 2 fingers. For Marion
Tuning the guitar correctly
Music Nurds Assemble! Implying...
Pull-offs - always down? Ever up?
Sound check
Bluegrass G run
Fingers, Hitting Frets, and Not Looking
Building stamina - guitar backup

Hannaiyan, Marion


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