Dylan wins the Oscar

Subject: Dylan wins the Oscar
From: Paul G.
Date: 25 Mar 01 - 11:05 PM

Bob Dylan just won the "Best Song" Oscar at the Academy Awards. He performed live from Australia, looking quite dapper with his pencil thin mustache. The music wasn't bad either. How about that.

Subject: RE: Dylan wins the Oscar
From: Paul G.
Date: 25 Mar 01 - 11:10 PM

Oh, yes...the song was "Things Have Changed" from the movie "Wonder Boys"

Subject: RE: Dylan wins the Oscar
From: alison
Date: 25 Mar 01 - 11:11 PM

Paul.. haven't seen you in ages..... any chance of luring you into paltalk to give us a song?

slainte

alison

Subject: RE: Dylan wins the Oscar
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 25 Mar 01 - 11:26 PM

...And Woody's on a stamp.

Subject: RE: Dylan wins the Oscar
From: hesperis
Date: 25 Mar 01 - 11:51 PM

Oooh, won't LH be pleased! (Unless he thinks that the Oscars are over-commercialized crapola, of course...)

Subject: RE: Dylan wins the Oscar
From: Sorcha
Date: 25 Mar 01 - 11:54 PM

Well damn all! If Dylan won, and Woody gets licked, who is sucking hind tit? (sorry....just a country girl)

Subject: RE: Dylan wins the Oscar
From: Armen Tanzerian
Date: 26 Mar 01 - 08:21 AM

Not only did he win -- he actually gave a gracious, articulate reception speech, thanking people by name and sounding genuinely tickled. This after giving a solid, soulful performance of the song in which one could understand (almost) every word. If they gave an Oscar for Most Completely Changed Performer, Bob Dylan would have two today. And best of all, he was a perfect visual contrast to the scrubbed, coutured and coiffed Hollywood crowd. I have always been an admirer of the idea of Bob Dylan, but up until now, I have not been a Bob Dylan fan. I thought it was the high point of the ceremony.

Subject: RE: Dylan wins the Oscar
From: GUEST,Matt_R
Date: 26 Mar 01 - 08:31 AM

I just checked out the song on amazon.com...pretty darn cool! Wish I knew Bob was up for an award...I would have watched the ceremony.

Subject: RE: Dylan wins the Oscar
From: SINSULL
Date: 26 Mar 01 - 08:54 AM

I must be getting old. Broke my heart to see the ultimate rebel of my youth reduced to thanking everyone but his mother and father for"this award". SIGH. The times they are a'changing.

Subject: RE: Dylan wins the Oscar
From: Big Tim
Date: 26 Mar 01 - 09:00 AM

Sinsull, I tend towards your view. I've been a keen Dylan fan since '63 and while it's great for him to be getting some publicity the whole idea of the Oscars is nonense. Still it might introduce Bob to a new audience.

Subject: RE: Dylan wins the Oscar
From: LR Mole
Date: 26 Mar 01 - 09:10 AM

The whole thing was nice to see. Dylanologists: does he have some sort of eye trouble?

Subject: RE: Dylan wins the Oscar
From: catspaw49
Date: 26 Mar 01 - 09:11 AM

Sins, he was never the rebel of our youth. Dylan, much as I may like him in some ways, was always well attuned to promoting Bob. His songs were great at times, beautiful and thought provoking, and yes, often rebellious, but he had a keen sense of what to kiss and when. I'm not trying to take anything away from his music, but we saw what Bob wanted us to see, done in the name of Bob. I guess this latest holds little surprise as it fits the pattern.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Dylan wins the Oscar
From: Whistle Stop
Date: 26 Mar 01 - 10:37 AM

Spaw, I think Dylan was just a more of a rebel than people gave him credit for; kind of like Rick Fielding in his current "When you disagree with your 'group'" thread. Bob could rebel against the traditional target group (whether called "the system" or "the establishment" or some other generic characterization), but he didn't limit himself to that, and in the end it wasn't what was most meaningful to him. What he ultimately found most oppressive, and therefore most worthy of rebellion, was the liberal folksinging group that tried to co-opt him and make him into something he was not. He realized this pretty early on, and ended up directing most of his venom at these folks. I still think he was right to do so.

I think the Oscars are kind of silly too, but I don't see any reason to knock Bob for giving a gracious and articulate acceptance speech, in the process giving thanks to his parents -- just like normal people do.

Subject: RE: Dylan wins the Oscar
From: mousethief
Date: 26 Mar 01 - 10:54 AM

One of the most foolish of the aspects of the so-called "rebellion" movement of the sixties was that these people lost track of whom they owed thanks to -- most especially their parents.

Alex

Subject: RE: Dylan wins the Oscar
From: SINSULL
Date: 26 Mar 01 - 11:08 AM

Speak for yourself, mousie. Rebellion against one's parents is a healthy sign of impending adulthood. Most of us recover by age 21 and appreciate our parents for who and what they are. Dylan, I suppose, included.

My problem with the Dylan/Oscars combination is purely personal. The Oscars (to me) personify mediocrity. Dylan for all his faults has never been mediocre.It pained me to see him "belonging" to that situation.

Subject: RE: Dylan wins the Oscar
From: mousethief
Date: 26 Mar 01 - 11:16 AM

Sinsull, you have said it all. Rebellion against one's parents is a sure sign you're still a child.

Thank you.

Alex

Subject: RE: Dylan wins the Oscar
From: GUEST,Matt_R
Date: 26 Mar 01 - 11:16 AM

You people crack me up! Who in the hell CARES about all that junk? He sings cool songs, that's all that matters. Like the soda add says "Thirst is everything. Image is nothing." Stop bellyaching about boring pointless things like who and what you think he should be associated with. Personally, Dylan for me signifies nothing about "rebellion" and everything about damn fine music. If you want rebellion, try some Rage Against The Machine.

Subject: RE: Dylan wins the Oscar
From: mousethief
Date: 26 Mar 01 - 11:22 AM

Dylan's worst fault is his mediocre voice. That, and meaningless lyrics. But I'm in the wrong thread to bash Dylan, aren't I? Sorry.

Subject: RE: Dylan wins the Oscar
From: Art Thieme
Date: 26 Mar 01 - 11:34 AM

Dylan is the one survivor rhat stupid TV show ought to follow around. He has reinvented himself for every recording he ever did. But that is actually wrong. We were just seeing the real Bob each time he broke out of the gate.

I didn't watch the awards either, but I wish I had just to tape Mr. D.

Art Thieme

Subject: RE: Dylan wins the Oscar
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 26 Mar 01 - 11:41 AM

WHY I OTTA!! Hey there Alex, don't 'dis the Dyl'! Ya know, after all these years I'm still amazed that I care what I think about Bobby. Matt's got a point. The guy's been hellishly entertaining for a lot of years.

Anyone remember his "speech" when being presented the "Tom Paine" award, about a hundred years ago? Made the upper class activists as uncomfortable as anyone who heard last night's speech. For different reasons....but he made/makes them uncomfortable...AFTER 40 YEARS! Wow!

Rick

Subject: RE: Dylan wins the Oscar
From: mousethief
Date: 26 Mar 01 - 11:44 AM

Farts in a small room make me uncomfortable too, Rick. Doesn't mean I like the way they sing.

Subject: RE: Dylan wins the Oscar
From: Steve Latimer
Date: 26 Mar 01 - 11:57 AM

What was he to do, pull a Marlon Brando and boycott it? Sure the academy awards often reward Mediocre movies and acting performances. They are often a popularity contest.

But Bon wrote a very good song, graciously performed it and as graciously accepted the award that he deserved. I thought it was a heartfelt, honest acceptance speech. Good for Bob.

Subject: RE: Dylan wins the Oscar
From: Pseudolus
Date: 26 Mar 01 - 12:16 PM

The Oscars personify mediocrity? I'm not sure I understand what you mean by that Sinsull. Some of the folks receiving awards last night were anything but mediocre in their work that got them there. Just curious what you meant.

Frank

Subject: RE: Dylan wins the Oscar
From: Peter T.
Date: 26 Mar 01 - 12:33 PM

Boy did Dylan look scary. He looked like Vincent Price with a guitar.

yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: Dylan wins the Oscar
From: SINSULL
Date: 26 Mar 01 - 12:36 PM

Frank - it is a popularity contest. "Gladiator" Best Picture???? That's a sad commentary on the movie making industry.

Subject: RE: Dylan wins the Oscar
From: GUEST,Matt_R
Date: 26 Mar 01 - 12:40 PM

So what's the matter with that? I though Gladiator was awesome and was pulling for it to win best picture. I was totally excited by it, on the edge of my seat the whole time. Russel Crowe, Sir Derek...they were all great.

Subject: RE: Dylan wins the Oscar
From: mousethief
Date: 26 Mar 01 - 12:48 PM

You guys, keep in mind that Matt_R is right in the middle of the demographic hollywood movies are created for.

Also keep in mind that "best" means "among those we nominated in the first place" and money-losers, however artistic, ain't gonna get nominated.

Alex

Subject: RE: Dylan wins the Oscar
From: GUEST,Matt_R
Date: 26 Mar 01 - 01:00 PM

Mousethief, I like to remind you that "Gladiator" is the only movie has interested me in the last 4 years. Almost all movies these days are crap. But Gladiator wasn't. At least for me.

Subject: RE: Dylan wins the Oscar
From: GUEST,Arne Langsetmo
Date: 26 Mar 01 - 01:43 PM

Didn't see "Dancer in the Dark" I guess?

Shame.

Cheers,

-- Arne Langsetmo

Subject: RE: Dylan wins the Oscar
From: BobP
Date: 26 Mar 01 - 02:10 PM

Cuppla quick thoughts,

Don't ya spose them hollywooders was sorta takin' the chance to thank the ol'boy for his whole bag as much as that one song?

And, don't judge "Things Have Changed" by last night's gig. Really bad sound, I thought. I'll bet Bob was a bit nervous and tired, too.

But, think how lotsa folks will now cover it, each giving it his/her distinct interpretation.

I, for one, wanna hear the spectrum of lyrics rendered through different prisms before judging.

And, as for a kinder, gentler Bob, Remember, back in the "good ol' ays" whenever Bob was polite to a microphone, the next query invariably asked him to provide a detailed analysis to one of his epochs, or explain how he came to write a song about Medger Evers. Like asking Armstrong to explain astronomy and the moon program in fifteen words.

Thank goodness, he's a bit less taxed that way these days.

Subject: RE: Dylan wins the Oscar
From: Pseudolus
Date: 26 Mar 01 - 02:32 PM

I haven't seen Gladiator myself so I won't offer an opinion with the exception of saying this. Several friends whose opinions I respect and occasionally agree with, really liked Gladiator. Enough so that I am going to make a point of seeing it. I don't know about the popularity contest thing but I will go see a movie because of the awards they receive because I tend to be a little skeptical but more often than not, I really enjoy what I went there to see. Especially some of the lesser known nominees. I will go see them because of the nomination alone to see what caught the attention of the powers that be in the "Academy".

And to get back to the actual thread.....I realy like a lot of Bob Dylan's songs. I sing many of them. So please be kind when I say this but I've never really enjoyed Dylan as a performer so I was not overly imperssed with the winning song. As stated before, this is probably not a great place to bash dylan, and in fact I don't think I am doing that, I just wasn't overwhelmed with his performance last night.

Subject: RE: Dylan wins the Oscar
From: Little Hawk
Date: 26 Mar 01 - 03:45 PM

Hmmmm...yeah, I do think the Oscars are a tasteless and largely empty commercial exercise...but...I'm still glad that Bob won some recognition there. I didn't see it, cos I never watch awards shows...or TV generally, for that matter.

But...sorry I missed the Bob part.

Matt - I've seen the movie Gladiator. I'd say several things about it. It was a very well made movie in terms of being great entertainment, visually spectacular, exciting, and all that. Russel Crowe played his part quite well, as did some of the other people too. The first scene with the Roman legions battling the Germans in the forests of Germania was worth the price of the whole movie.

Now the cons: it was a story so utterly unlikely as to border on the incredible, if you know Roman history. It's entirely possible that the corrupt son of a Roman emperor might kill his own father...such things happened. But what is inconceivable is that his father's most loyal general would then be allowed to survive after being unveiled in the arena in Rome itself as a gladiator, and a self-declared bitter enemy of "nasty boy"!!! Scheming Roman politicians did not allow their enemies to survive any longer than it took them to draw breath. In this case it would have taken anywhere from a few seconds to a few hours after Russel took off the mask and revealed himself in the arena. He would have been eliminated that night, in some hideously nasty fashion, by the preatorian guards. He would NEVER have gotten to personally fight "nasty boy emperor" IN PUBLIC for the entertainment of the crowd. The very idea is unthinkable. It's ludicrous. Why risk it all when you don't HAVE to? And "nasty boy" was no arena fighter, that's for sure. He was the kind who has people poisoned or garroted by underlings.

But what the hell...does Hollywood care? No. They just want a good movie with an all-good hero, an all-evil villain, and lots of action, and they certainly delivered that.

So...if you can go into major historical denial and just enjoy the film for what it is (a couple of hours of lively entertainment)...then hey, it's a great movie, I guess.

Back to Bob: Alex, Bob's voice isn't mediocre...it's utterly extraordinary...depending on the occasion. If you listen to his whole catalog, you'll find he sings in not just one voice (as do most singers), but quite a variety of them. He has a greater range (from low to high) than most male singers, and a degree of raw power and intensity that is quite unusual. Sometimes he sounds ragged or nasal. Sometimes he doesn't. He's done some amazing singing in certain phases of his career.

Point is, his voice and his meaningFULL lyrics are his 2 greatest assets, not his liabilities. His 3rd major asset is that he's a hell of a good musician...ask Rick Fielding about that. His major liability has always been that his audience could not keep up with him, and he showed them (and the press) very little mercy in that regard. None at all, in fact.

That's what makes him so interesting.

Spaw - I think Bob's rebellion was entirely real, but he tended to move on very quickly. When he wrote those songs like "The Times They Are A-Changin", and "Hard Rain", he meant them all right. A couple of years later he didn't want to sing them at all anymore, because he had moved on, and he wanted to express something else entirely, something more personal. His audience was not pleased, of course, and accused him of selling out.

He had not sold out, he had changed. In fact, he had deepened.

"He not busy being born is busy dying".

He could've made a whole lot more money by just being agreeable and recycling the old folksinger Bob thing endlessly...Like most of his contemporaries did...until he changed the scene so much that they had to budge themselves off dead center and try something new for a change.

Matt- you just had to be there. It was more than entertainment in those days. We believed that we could change the world...and to some extent, we did.

- LH

Subject: RE: Dylan wins the Oscar
From: SingsIrish Songs
Date: 26 Mar 01 - 05:54 PM

Peter T.

I was wondering if anyone else had that same reaction! I too thought he looked an awful lot like Vincent Price! Actually, I did think Bob Dylan looked absolutely horrible/scary until I decided he did look like Vincent Price (whom I always liked)--made watching it more bearable.

Mary

Subject: RE: Dylan wins the Oscar
From: GUEST,Willem Lindeboom
Date: 27 Mar 01 - 06:25 PM

December 13th, 1963 [opening]"I haven't got any guitar, I can talk though. I want to thank you for the Tom Paine Award on behalf of everybody taht went down to Cuba. First of all because they're all young and it took me a long time to get young and now I consider myself young. And I'm proud of it. I'm proud that I'm young! And I only wish that all of you people who are sitting out here today or tonight weren't here and I could see all kinds of faces with hair on their head and everything like that, celebrating the anniversary when we overthrew the House Un-American Activities just yesterday - because you people should on the beach. ..."

{someone says to Bob "Time 's about up"} [end] "I just want to admit that I accept this Tom Paine Award in behalf of James Forman of the Students Non-Violent Coordinating Committee and the people on behalf of who went to Cuba"

Bob wrote a letter of apology to the committee. but he knew he was misunderstood.

I'm a Dylanfan since 1963 and the only things that matters for me are his music,lyrics and attending the concerts he gives in my country (the Netherlands)

Who cares about how he looks or what he does in private That's not important and not of our business anyway. He is a minstrel, he travels over the world and we should listen to his messages. 'Things Have Changed' is a beautiful lyric. A short novel with a hidden warning to all of us. The satellite-broadcast was unique, not the short version of the song, the bad sound or the registration. No it was Dylan as one of the nominees. Dylan knew that millions of people all over the world were watching the show and he wasn't sure about winning the award. His body-language said it all. Uneasy and a little shy. By hearing his name as the winner he only lifts his eyebrows a little bit. Calls the jury "bold enough" and hopes that God will give all of us peace and tranquility. He steps back to his band Thank you Bob for not speeching like in 1963, but for being a modest Oscarwinner ! THINGS HAVE CHANGED

Subject: RE: Dylan wins the Oscar
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 27 Mar 01 - 07:10 PM

Oh the benches were stained with tears and perspiration
The birdies were flying from tree to tree.
There was little to say, there was no conversation
As I stepped to the stage to pick up my degree.
And the locusts sang off in the distance,
Yeah, the locusts sang such a sweet melody.
Oh the locusts sang off in the distance,
Yeah, the locusts sang and they were singing for me.

What makes the Oscars mediocre surely is that even when the right people get honoured, it's hardly ever for their best work. A bit the same way that Chuck Berry's only really big hit single was "My Ding-a-Ling"...

Subject: RE: Dylan wins the Oscar
From: Elise
Date: 27 Mar 01 - 07:35 PM

Did anyone notice how much he looked like Vincent Price?

Subject: RE: Dylan wins the Oscar
From: Elise
Date: 27 Mar 01 - 07:38 PM

Sorry about that, I just read the first ten posts. Glad it wasn't just me, though.

Subject: RE: Dylan wins the Oscar
From: Justa Picker
Date: 27 Mar 01 - 08:04 PM

Given the other so-called nominees for best? song, it's not that surprising that he won.

If his song, had been up against last year's nominees he'd have been blown out of the water.

He won by default.

Subject: RE: Dylan wins the Oscar
From: Big Tim
Date: 28 Mar 01 - 09:07 AM

Forget Dylan's work over the last 40 years what's really interesting is that a couple of folk think that he looks like Vincent Price. "World gone wrong" right enough.Happily there's a Dylan quote for every occasion.

Subject: RE: Dylan wins the Oscar
From: chip a
Date: 28 Mar 01 - 09:37 AM

Thanks, Little Hawk.

Dylan is Dylan. Dylan's always been Dylan. When who he was matched up with our expectations, we loved him. When not, we didn't. Now, after 40 yrs, he's still out there. Good enough for me!

Chip

Subject: RE: Dylan wins the Oscar
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Mar 01 - 09:49 AM

Dylan critics: Notice how Adults look up to him like kids idolizing a hero, he certainly has done wrong from time to time, But he can't do any wrong in the eyes of those who admire him.That is what bugs you. The man is exceptionally talented, admit it.....and he did look like Vincent Price or Ceasar Romaro. Someone suggested to me that the moustache was a gag in the spirit of the song he was winning for.Maybe?

Subject: RE: Dylan wins the Oscar
From: DancingMom
Date: 28 Mar 01 - 12:45 PM

I was in bed studying, and two of my teenagers were watching the show. My daughter suddenly screamed "MAMA!!! It's BOB DYLAN!!!At first I thought, "Huh? I thought they were watching the Oscars!" So I got up, and sure 'nuff, there he was. The same two teenagers have belted out "The times they are a changin" together like it was released last month. His contributions as a songwriter have stood a test of time (going on 3 generations, I guess.)

Subject: RE: Dylan wins the Oscar
From: GUEST,Matt_R
Date: 28 Mar 01 - 12:51 PM

Wow Dancing Mom, I wish MY sisters were like that! Instead they say "ARGG turn that off!"

Subject: RE: Dylan wins the Oscar
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Mar 01 - 10:53 AM

I think it should have gone to Denver. His swan song was a real killer.

Subject: RE: Dylan wins the Oscar
From: Peter T.
Date: 29 Mar 01 - 11:00 AM

The rest of the nominated songs were so bad that I found myself at one moment wondering where Celine Dion was to inject a little life into the proceedings. THAT IS MY DEFINITION OF BAD.

yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: Dylan wins the Oscar
From: Steve Latimer
Date: 29 Mar 01 - 11:13 AM

Peter T.

I sure agree with you. I've always liked Randy Newman but what the hell was that? And the Bjork thing, whew.

However, I think Bob would have fared well against a stronger field. Good song.

Subject: RE: Dylan wins the Oscar
From: MAG (inactive)
Date: 30 Mar 01 - 10:26 PM

Bob was on tour, and was made up for the stage. The eyeliner was really weird, and I thought the camera zooming in on his face must have been some kind of personal vendetta, as it show every speck of makeup. That, as much as the mustache, made him look like Vincent P.

and he did actually have on black tie. I looked close to make sure.

I have not been an admirer of Dylan's personal life. As a singer myself I can tell you that what he does with his voice is outstanding. Pregnant with implication, subtly nuanced. He makes his voice do just about whatever he wants it to. His phrasing is exquisite.

and his speech got in words like "peace" and "tranquility." He took the award, said a (very) few words, and got off. It was classy.

Subject: RE: Dylan wins the Oscar
From: Susanne (skw)
Date: 31 Mar 01 - 05:28 PM

I love Dylan's songs. I hate Dylan's singing. And somehow I can't quite believe he's as indifferent to fame as this article makes him out to be!

Subject: RE: Dylan wins the Oscar
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 Apr 01 - 06:00 PM

Susanne - I felt exactly like that until age 20...loved Dylan's songs and hated his singing. I liked smooth singing, as done by Joan Baez or Ian Tyson, for example, or most of the other folksingers.

Then, all of a sudden at age 20 I started really listening to Bob himself with full attention, and the conversion could not have been more sudden or dramatic. I loved his voice. It had so much bite, so much intensity, so much LIFE...totally raw to the bone. It expressed so perfectly what he was saying. It expressed what I was feeling. His singing was just downright incredible.

So, I can understand that you don't like his voice...having been there myself for quite a few years. I don't expect you ever will like it, either, but who knows? You might get bitten by the bug when you least expect it.

No one else will ever be able to sing Dylan like Dylan. Listen to "Gates of Eden" or "Blind Willie McTell" and see what I mean.

- LH

Subject: RE: Dylan wins the Oscar
From: Susanne (skw)
Date: 04 Apr 01 - 05:29 PM

Nice try, Little Hawk, but I suppose at 47 I'm too old to be converted! 'Intensity' and 'life' are not terms I'd associate with his voice, and I find that my aversion to it distracts me from the contents of his songs. So I prefer others' versions. Have you heard the Ballad of Hollis Brown by the Old Blind Dogs (on 'Legacy')? Spine-chilling!

Subject: RE: Dylan wins the Oscar
From: Big Tim
Date: 05 Apr 01 - 06:00 AM

I do honestly feel sorry for people who don't like Bob Dylan's voice, they are missing out on so much. No one sings Dylan like Dylan, no one. However as Laughing Leonard Cohen said "it's a matter of taste".