BS: I am sorry

Subject: I am sorry
From: Luke
Date: 26 Mar 01 - 11:02 AM

It has been brought to my attention that I have caused people pain and suffering here at the Mudcat by the Amish virus thread I submitted. I have no excuse. I was unaware that it's contents were degrading or hurtful in anyway. As I live with Amish and deal with them daily I never thought that they were not content to be without modern conveniences. I have also been part of them making fun of their ways and mine. In any case I am very sorry if I have offend those of you that I have. Please forgive me.

Luke

Subject: RE: BS: I am sorry
From: Mrrzy
Date: 26 Mar 01 - 11:42 AM

Well, I wasn't offended, but I forgive you anyway. This was a very nice apology, none of that I'm sorry YOU got upset attitude that so bothers the people being apologized to.

Subject: RE: BS: I am sorry
From: Melani
Date: 26 Mar 01 - 01:50 PM

Hey, Luke, I thought it was funny. I have actually heard another version of same, but can't remember the details--not amish.

Subject: RE: BS: I am sorry
From: GUEST,kendall
Date: 26 Mar 01 - 02:21 PM

I also thought it was funny. I feel sorry for people who have no sense of humor. They must be hell to live with.

Subject: RE: BS: I am sorry
From: Mrrzy
Date: 26 Mar 01 - 02:28 PM

OK, I've gone and read the thread now. I not only think it was funny but it generated a whole lot of useful information and links, a lot more than any anti-Amish (or other bigoted) anything that I could discern.

So bully for you all over again for this apology.

Subject: RE: BS: I am sorry
From: SINSULL
Date: 26 Mar 01 - 02:30 PM

I laughed too although I had heard it before - ON THE MUDCAT! Go figure.

Subject: RE: BS: I am sorry
From: Irish sergeant
Date: 26 Mar 01 - 02:38 PM

GUess I'll have to check out the thread. The things i miss when I'm too busy. Kindest reguards, neil

Subject: RE: BS: I am sorry
From: Pseudolus
Date: 26 Mar 01 - 02:41 PM

I appreciate the apology and the sincerity from where it came, but I'm with everyone else in this thread (so far!!) I thought it was funny, I didn't see it as demeaning at all.....but if I did, I would have simply not returned to the thread. I have in fact been offended in threads before but I just avoided them once I identified them. I tend to be most offended when I'm told what I should consider funny....but that's just me.

Frank

Subject: RE: BS: I am sorry
From: John Hardly
Date: 26 Mar 01 - 05:33 PM

Luke,

Clearly this goes into the anals of all-time big misunderstandings!

I was the only one who was unsettled in that thread and I wasn't unsettled at the humor you shared.
I guess I've had trouble understanding what passes for etiquette here at mudcat.

I think it gets back to Rick Fielding's thread "full frontal..."

I've never once had trouble catching even the most appearantly frontal assaults issued by catspaw49 or whatsshersusanname, of Rick, or Big Mick, or what used to be moonjen,or,or,or,

But there does seem to be an abiding effort in some to cut short threads in which they don't find interest or for any number of other (unknown to me) reasons.

I do suspect that, sometimes the immense size of the 'cat and it's huge number of posts tempt one to try to stem the tide.

I do notice that, due to the size of the mudcat there are two major ways that MOST people manage their reading/posting habits:
1. They only read the final post of a thread, and
2. They follow the posts of those who have informed or entertained them before, and
3. They ignore the posts of those whose posts they haven't found entertaining or informative in the past, and
4. They veiw thread posts by new, guests with interesting names (especially if they DO post an interesting topic or post).

This is not done for any other reason than time management but it does lead to an immense amount of thread trample (someone posting essentially the same information you just posted without stating some agreement with, of acknowledgement of your post).

It also leads to "final word" type posting or the posting equivalent of standing in a circle at a party, having someone ask you a question that pulls you from something in which you are more interested, curtly answering the question only quickly enough to again turn your back and get back to what interests you.

I saw no logical reason behind Alex' pointing out that you had started a thread that had already been covered, after all, even with the previous covering of the topic you still ellicited over 10 posts (even if you subtracted mine). It struck me as part of that lack of etiquette that I described previously. I did ASK and I assumed that if I was wrong the answer would logically be that you and Alex had an ongoing relationship of "joshing" each other.

I never dreamed that you could misunderstand that I was upset with your post, especially when I followed up and explained.

Subject: RE: BS: I am sorry
From: mousethief
Date: 26 Mar 01 - 05:49 PM

Anals of understanding?

Anyway I'm sorry if I gave offense with what I said. I tend to get cranky about all these internet-spread jokes, because I usually see each of them about 30 times before it gets laid to rest, and this one didn't strike me as funny enough to have TWO mudcat threads. So I tend to post stuff like what I did (as I recall, all I said was, "didn't we already have a thread on this one?" and not something like "shut the f*** up" or anything of the sort!). It wasn't my intent to hurt anyone's feelings, just to make a point about multiple joke threads, and I'm sorry if I upset you, Luke.

Luke, I for one am not upset at you, nor do I feel you need to apologize to me. Post whatever you wish; that's your right, and the glory of Mudcat. But some people will react negatively to what you post, and that's THEIR right; don't let it get you down (even if it's me!), but go right on doing what YOU feel is the right thing to do.

Alex

Subject: RE: BS: I am sorry
From: catspaw49
Date: 26 Mar 01 - 06:06 PM

Fine post John..........Very few things bother me as I tend to categorize into two files most elements of my life: 1)Mildly Amusing; 2)Pain in the Ass

One of the few serious irritants though (and I really don't know why) around here for me is that duplicate, triplicate, and more posting stuff which you alluded to:

This is not done for any other reason than time management but it does lead to an immense amount of thread trample (someone posting essentially the same information you just posted without stating some agreement with, of acknowledgement of your post).

I frankly don't know if it is time or not, but if someone doesn't have time to read the thread, then I DON'T HAVE TIME to read their crap!!! It happens on all sorts of threads from serious music to the most banal BS. The impression it leaves me with is that the poster is the "Great and Grand Authority" and what has gone before is simply drivel. You search and find lyrics and chords and answer the inquiry on a Lyrics Request Thread and someone comes along and posts the same damn thing........and then maybe a third! If they have new info or see something missing, that's fine. Nancy King saw a verse missing in a recent thread and it led to an interesting discussion. Too often though, its the same info. On the tech threads, its really an irritant when someone comes along and does it and then gives you the impression that what anyone else has posted is a waste. Same on BS.

Anyway, LUKE.........relax pardner.......You'll hit some rough spots I'm sure, but this ain't one of them and you don't need to apologize in a separate thread. In this case, you didn't need to apologize at all!

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: I am sorry
From: John Hardly
Date: 27 Mar 01 - 07:32 AM

catspaw,

I'm glad I'm not alone. I was going to be a smart-ass (no stretch for me) and cut and paste a section of your post and sign it (without mentioning your name), but I really do wish others knew what a pisser that thread stomp is...or I assume it is.

Maybe others don't mind it.

You are notorious for putting much thought into your posts (especially on guitars and related gear) and I know that the level of anger I feel at being stomped is directly proportional to the amount of thought and work that went into my post.

Subject: RE: BS: I am sorry
From: GUEST,John Wayne
Date: 27 Mar 01 - 08:30 AM

Never apologize, it's a sign of weakneww. (Hondo)

Subject: RE: BS: I am sorry
From: catspaw49
Date: 27 Mar 01 - 08:32 AM

Well, there's nothin' worse than weakneww Pilgrim.......

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: I am sorry
From: Mary in Kentucky
Date: 27 Mar 01 - 09:42 AM

...I read all the posts *BG* so now I can offer my thoughts. Actually I'm a little confused about what I really believe on the issue of teasing and humor.

I was not offended in the least at the joke, as a matter of fact, I had heard it before and still think it's funny. However, I've learned that I can't get by with that type of humor because too many people take my teasing seriously. Much like I feel when my husband makes fun of one of my family members; I can do it, but he sure as h*** better not! The truth just hurts too much when it's personal.

I love to tease people like Kendall and Spaw who I know can "take it," don't attribute any sinister motives to me, and are so witty with comebacks, I always get a good laugh. Others are just so sensitive that it's not worth my time trying to think if I should or shouldn't say something.

When I taught teenagers I was so sensitive to their feelings I would never tease. Recently I've watched several young female family members who were not raised with brothers (like my daughter was), and they have a difficult time adjusting to the free-for-all teasing in my home. I guess it just amounts to exposure and past experiences.

I also observed when working primarily with men that the teasing level is much higher, and it's often about topics that I never gave a thought to, (baldness, sports talent, etc.)

Subject: RE: BS: I am sorry
From: Mrrzy
Date: 27 Mar 01 - 10:08 AM

I take teasing very poorly. Always have (comes from being a youngest, I guess). My kids have figured this out...

(thread creep alert) a pearl of wisdom from one of my niblings, produced when about 3: Mom, I know the difference between lying and teasing. (mom:) What's that? (child): Well, lying is when you say you've brushed your teeth, but you haven't. Teasing is when you say you haven't brushed your teeth, but you have!

Now, that's it in a nutshell, to me!

Subject: RE: BS: I am sorry
From: mousethief
Date: 27 Mar 01 - 11:47 AM

From the mouths of babes!

Subject: RE: BS: I am sorry
From: Luke
Date: 27 Mar 01 - 06:01 PM

Dear Folks,

I recieved a private message from some who i will not devulge saying that my Amish posting was the same as repeating a "nigger" joke. I am shocked and deeply saddened by this comparison and it was for this reason I started a separate thread of apology. I am no biggot and ment no slander.

Luke

Subject: RE: BS: I am sorry
From: mousethief
Date: 27 Mar 01 - 06:13 PM

I think this correspondent was overstating his/her case just a LITTLE, Luke. But your apology was a noble gesture, and I applaud you.

Alex

Subject: RE: BS: I am sorry
From: catspaw49
Date: 27 Mar 01 - 06:16 PM

There's this old thing about only making your own kind the butt of a joke and I am also aware that the Amish can't defend themselves here such as say the Irish...which I have also seen used on that joke. Sometimes though, I believe, we spend a lot of time dickin' around about something that has no malicious intent and working ourselves up over basically nothing. If you're so humor impaired that you can't tell the difference between fun or maliciousness.........well, to hell with you!

Once again Luke, quit worrying about it.................and go play some games at THIS PLACE and forget about it..........I suggest the bunny and the eggs or the make your own bunny, but the deportation game is pretty fun too.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: I am sorry
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 27 Mar 01 - 06:22 PM

Is heck still unmentionable in Kentucky, Mary? I can't bring myself to believe you might have been alluding tohell!

Subject: RE: BS: I am sorry
From: Sorcha
Date: 27 Mar 01 - 06:29 PM

Good lord, the things some people take offense at! And for "others" benefit, no less!

I'm with spaw and 'thief on the repititon bit.....I get awfully tired of the same "funny" stuff showing up in my in box and occasionally get cranky about it.

Most stuff is "mildly amusing" or "just plain studid". Once in a while I actually get a new one that is on the floor funny, not often.

With this Amish one, tho, I think even the Amish would think it was cute, if not on the floor funny. They know what their position is in the world, and how the world percieves them........why else give their teens "gap years"?

Luke, I'm sorry you got that PM; I didn't think your joke was like "nigger" at all. Even if I had seen it before, it still gave me a smile. Some people just have NO sense of humor at all; ask spaw, he offends them all the time, don't ya, Pat? Sometimes, it's sort of a source of pride to see how many people you can offend with one statement......Spaw and I have both done that on occasion, on purpose.

I don't suppose it would do any good at all to point out that "nigger" derives from "Nigra" which at one time was a perfectly politically correct form of referring to persons of African descent.......nah.

Now, if you had referred to Lancaster Co. BuggyBoogers, that might be a different story, but you didn't.(and neither am I!)

Sorch, whose soapbox is severely Scorched tonite. Would somebody please come snatch it out from under me?

Subject: RE: BS: I am sorry
From: wysiwyg
Date: 27 Mar 01 - 06:51 PM

Sure, bes/bud. I'll give it a go.

Some of us are actually attending Catspaw's Comedy Academy even as we speeg, and are still struggling with out freshman year.

Howzzabout this:

Subject: kids

This is dedicated to everyone that has been embarrassed by a child's words or actions. Have you ever asked your child a question too many times? I hope you remember this story when they start getting frustrated.

My three-year-old son had a lot of problems with potty training; and I was on him constantly. One day we stopped at Taco Bell for a quick lunch in between errands. It was very busy, with a full dining room. While enjoying my taco, I smelled something funny, so of course I checked my seven month old daughter, and she was clean.

Then I realized that Mikey had not asked to go potty in a while, so I asked him, and he said, "No." I kept thinking, "Oh Lord, that child has had an accident and I don't have any clothes with me."

Then I said, "Mikey, are you sure you did not have an accident?"

"No," he replied.

I just knew that he must have had, 'cause the smell was getting worse!

Soooo......... I asked one more time, "Mikey, did you have an accident?"

This time he jumped up, yanked down his pants, bent over and spread his cheeks and yelled.........

"See MOM, IT'S JUST FARTS!!"

While 100 people nearly choked to death on their tacos, he calmly pulled up his pants and sat down to eat his food as if nothing had happened. I was mortified.... but some kind elderly people made me feel a lot better when they came over and thanked me for the best laugh they had ever had!!!

Subject: RE: BS: I am sorry
From: Ebbie
Date: 27 Mar 01 - 09:26 PM

Luke and all, I hope no one thinks the pm poster was me! (I?) I am probably the only one here of Amish descent with a thousand Amish relatives and I didn't think there was anything offensive in the original post. (Although, frankly, I don't quite remember what it was about) I have never known an Amishman or woman who didn't love to laugh. I was 9 years old when it first occurred to me that if I dressed like the other girls, no one could tell the difference- talk about an epiphany. So there is no way that a grown Amish person isn't aware that they do without material conveniences by choice.

As to its being akin to the n-word, how can that be? Amish is what they call themselves, Amish is what they are. (Derives from Jakob Amman, the faith's founder){Say those last two words fast, three times. Bet you flounder}

These threads sometimes serve a good purpose. For instance, all by his lonesome, Spaw inspired all Amish men to shave off their mustaches. Have you ever seen one with a mustache? There ya go! (And made a profit besides. You can't beat the American way!)

Eb

Subject: RE: BS: I am sorry
From: John Hardly
Date: 27 Mar 01 - 10:49 PM

OK ~S~

It may have started out "just farts", but now my whole front side is SOAKED. :o)))))))))

Subject: RE: BS: I am sorry
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 27 Mar 01 - 11:06 PM

Did you hear the one about the ethnic who flunked out of pharmacy school? He couldn't figure out how to fit the little bottle into the typewriter.

Aloha,
Mark

Subject: RE: BS: I am sorry
From: Sorcha
Date: 27 Mar 01 - 11:07 PM

Thanks, sissie! I am so glad my soapbox has been burned and not just scorched!! And it wasn't Paw and the Boyz that did it this time, either!! Eb, being able to laff at their differences is one of the things that makes them so wonderful!! Having known quite a few Mennonites (but no true Amish), I strongly suspect that they know exactly what they are doing!!

Subject: RE: BS: I am sorry
From: reggie miles
Date: 28 Mar 01 - 09:52 AM

Luke, I'm reminded of what a friend recentlt told me. He said, before you criticize someone it's always a good idea to walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you do criticize'em, you're a mile away and you've their shoes.

Subject: RE: BS: I am sorry
From: reggie miles
Date: 28 Mar 01 - 09:53 AM

Luke, I'm reminded of what a friend recently told me. He said, before you criticize someone it's always a good idea to walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you do criticize'em, you're a mile away and you've their shoes.

Subject: RE: BS: I am sorry
From: reggie miles
Date: 28 Mar 01 - 10:00 AM

Oops. I thought I caught it in time to fix that typo on the end of recently. Sawry 'bout that, it's early.

Subject: RE: BS: I am sorry
From: reggie miles
Date: 28 Mar 01 - 10:06 AM

Double oops that should read: That way when you do criticize 'em you're a mile away and you've GOT their shoes. Yep, it's early

Subject: RE: BS: I am sorry
From: Irish sergeant
Date: 28 Mar 01 - 09:07 PM

"See it's only farts!" That is with out a doubt the best laugh I've had all week! Luke, relax man. Most of us enjoy a good joke if, given as yours was in the spirit of humor rather than bigotry. You are obviously a compassionate person or you wouldn't worry over this. Put it behind you and have some much deserved fun. How many re-enactors does it take to change a light bulb? Nobody knows we're too busy arguing about the authenticity of the task to actually do it. Kindest reguards, Neil

Subject: RE: BS: I am sorry
From: catspaw49
Date: 28 Mar 01 - 09:19 PM

I dunno' if this will work, but if it does you can quit being sorry and help the Easter Bunny and Cletus to color and lay some Easter Eggs. If not, try www.killfrog.com and go to "New Stuff." The download time is worth it........

Cletus and the Easter Bunny

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: I am sorry
From: John Hardly
Date: 28 Mar 01 - 09:47 PM

Hey catspaw,

I spent some time at killfrog making chocolate bunnies this afternoon. I've never felt such lightness of being--a truly transcendant experience....--JH

Subject: RE: BS: I am sorry
From: wysiwyg
Date: 28 Mar 01 - 11:32 PM

Professor Spaw, even without sound, that was purty funny.

I think I should put you in charge of marketing our gathering. Hardi's orful busy with Lent. I think we need you to do a billboard.

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: I am sorry
From: Jeri
Date: 29 Mar 01 - 07:56 AM

Luke, it is NOT the same as repeating a "nigger" joke. I can understand how some people who are easily offended can see a reference to a group of people and not think much beyond that.

Even when the joke was about Irish people, it was about "these people are so dumb, they..." and that IS an ethnic slur. When the joke was changed to be about lifestyle, it was not a joke about who people are, but how they do things. As Ebbie said, it's about a lifestyle choice, not something inherent in a group of folks. It's NOT the same.

I was a bit irritated by the fact the joke had been repeated, but that's life. The longer we're at Mudcat, the more repeats we're going to see.

Subject: RE: BS: I am sorry
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Mar 01 - 10:51 AM

Apologies aren't erasers.

Subject: RE: BS: I am sorry
From: John Hardly
Date: 29 Mar 01 - 12:54 PM

...and erasers aren't chalk


..and chalk isn't scissors

..and scissors aren't paper

..and paper isn't stone

..and everybodies gotta get stoned

..In Stone Coal W. Virginia

..Yes, there really is a Santa Clause

..and the clause reads; blah,blah,blah,blah,blah

Subject: RE: BS: I am sorry
From: catspaw49
Date: 29 Mar 01 - 01:21 PM

Hmmmmmm.......Gee John, that sounds like the Sanity Clause to me.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: I am sorry
From: John Hardly
Date: 29 Mar 01 - 07:31 PM

catspaw
My grandmother, bless her heart (which outlived her mind by approximately 30 years), expressed herself with much the same clause.

I fear I take after her.