Lyrics & Knowledge Personal Pages Record Shop Auction Links Radio & Media Kids Membership Help
The Mudcat Cafesj

Post to this Thread - Sort Descending - Printer Friendly - Home


Offbeat Bodhran

Related threads:
Bodhran repair (32)
Microphones for Bodhran (52)
Tech: design for a (bodhran) beater (27)
My Bodhran is too tight (108)
Bodhran (89)
Flight cases for Bodhrans!! (51)
bodhrans in sessions (126)
a strap for my bodhran? (53)
Bodhran skin repair (19)
Bodhran buying for beginner (39)
Bodhran sticks from Dublin? (20)
Bodhran help please!! (49)
BS: A lesson for drummers/bodhran players (10)
Bodhran: Revenge of the whale tambourine (68)
Auction: Bodhran (3)
BS: I ate a bodhran - mmm, tasty! (41)
Bodhran history??? (65)
Bodhran stick? (34)
Bodhran Questions (32)
And again that bodhran... (14)
when should a bodran be used (78)
Got A 2nd Hand Halpin Bodhran? (34)
The reproductive capacity of bodhrans (73) (closed)
BS: Tech: The contraceptive history of bodhrans (16)
Bodhran Tips (93)
Alison's Bodhran Practice CD (27)
Annoying Bodhran, what to do? (177) (closed)
Workshops NYC 6/15 fiddle,flute,bodhran (1)
BS: BODHRAN : advice for tyros (33) (closed)
Bodhran tipper (11)
Boston Bodhran Workshop??? (4)
Bodhran history (29)
Carrying case for a bodhran (36)
Bodhran (36)
plumbing in the bodhran for gigs? (24)
Bodhran Making - A Tale Of Woe (43)
bodhran (6)


gnu 29 Mar 01 - 06:38 PM
Morticia 29 Mar 01 - 06:43 PM
Tattie Bogle 29 Mar 01 - 07:34 PM
Rich(bodhránai gan ciall) 30 Mar 01 - 12:33 AM
Ella who is Sooze 30 Mar 01 - 04:14 AM
Mr Red 30 Mar 01 - 07:28 AM
GUEST,Passing Stranger 30 Mar 01 - 07:29 AM
GUEST,JohnB 30 Mar 01 - 01:00 PM
Rich(bodhránai gan ciall) 30 Mar 01 - 06:25 PM
Ella who is Sooze 02 Apr 01 - 04:35 AM
Mr Red 02 Apr 01 - 08:07 AM
Mr Red 02 Apr 01 - 08:09 AM
Ella who is Sooze 09 Apr 01 - 06:18 AM
gnu 09 Apr 01 - 07:03 AM
Rich(bodhránai gan ciall) 09 Apr 01 - 11:56 PM
alison 10 Apr 01 - 12:45 AM
Ella who is Sooze 10 Apr 01 - 08:02 AM
Morticia 10 Apr 01 - 03:06 PM
Tig 10 Apr 01 - 06:18 PM
Ella who is Sooze 18 Apr 01 - 05:11 AM
GUEST,leeneia 19 Apr 01 - 01:31 AM
GUEST,Mr Red @ Library 19 Apr 01 - 12:40 PM
Share Thread
more
Lyrics & Knowledge Search [Advanced]
DT  Forum
Sort (Forum) by:relevance date
DT Lyrics:





Subject: Offbeat Bodhrán
From: gnu
Date: 29 Mar 01 - 06:38 PM

Just found a new Hranner in town. There are very few near me. As a matter of fact, I previously only knew of three other Hranners nearby and, of these, there is only one "full time" Hranner and that's me. The others are proficient on real instruments and the Hran is secondary or more. I learned by imitating Hranners on brief TV clips and on cassette tape tunes with Hrans on them, so this is going to be a real treat, seeing a real Hranner in person who can teach me things.

Made contact with the "new guy" and we are getting together for a Hran session this weekend. He told me he would show me some of the finer points, especially the "offbeat", which, he says, is the key to Hran.

My question to you Hranners is this. Is the offbeat all it's cracked up to be ? Can or should you really lead a tune with the offbeat or should you "support" the tune with the heartbeat ? or is it a matter of timing ? of judgement ? of .....

Hope this thread creeps, too, because I would like to learn as much as I can.

Thanks in advance for your time and advice.

gnu


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: Offbeat Bodhrán
From: Morticia
Date: 29 Mar 01 - 06:43 PM

I play whatever beat occurs to me, it is often the 'offbeat' because that's what I hear but I don't consider it to be any more important than the centre beat ( which I think of as the a or b timing).Good to learn from other people though, take what you need and file the rest *BG*.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: Offbeat Bodhrán
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 29 Mar 01 - 07:34 PM

As Morticia says, feel the beat. Rock music uses the "backbeat" a lot, which means emphasise beats 2 and 4 in a 4/4 rhythm. I also like what happens in some jigs when 6/8 turns into 3/4 i.e. intead of playing 123/456 you play 12/34/56, but the other musicians won't thank you if they're not doing it too! Tattie B


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: Offbeat Bodhrán
From: Rich(bodhránai gan ciall)
Date: 30 Mar 01 - 12:33 AM

It depends on the situation. If I'm playing for dancers, I stay on the 1 religiously, unless I know the dance well, and I'm sure it's a spot where the footwork isn't as critical. In a session, I'll throw in the backbeat as a variation once in a while. There are a couple of players here that like to get a little funky here and if I'm playing with them I'll bounce around a bit more. If it adds lift, throw it in. If it just clouds the rhythm, don't. As a player of the instrument that's simplest to get started with, we have a responsibility to the others around us. The most important part of any accompaniast is his ears. Listen and lock in on the strongest melody player in the group. The backbeat is a variation and as such should be the exception. I'd recommend you listen to some recordings of good players, particularly Johnny McDonagh. (Arcady, DeDannann, Mary Bergin's solo CDs and others) Finally, remember the backbeat is a specific point in the measure. Don't just accent randomly.

Good luck,
Rich


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: Offbeat Bodhrán
From: Ella who is Sooze
Date: 30 Mar 01 - 04:14 AM

Agrees with Rich...

I teach the bodhran to a few youngsters, and older people. Though they are only at the begining stages right now. I am also always learning... I love going to a pub, meeting other bodhran players, and picking up new tricks etc.

But yes, backbeat is usually a variation. I tend to play the backbeat if I know the tune very well indeed, or if the tune lends itself to playing along a little more jazz like, and syncopated, (which is what I call it)...

I also listen to any really good percussion guitarists, who usually have the beat off to a tee... and you can usually copy their rhythmn and get tips off them.

In sessions with friends who I play with in our band, we sometimes get the tunes a little funky and jazz them up for a laugh. Then you can really have fun... but like Rich if I am playing at a ceili for the dancers, I will tend to stay on the 1 too, unless there's a bit I want to accentuate.

Only thing with backbeat variation... is that it is only too easy sometimes to completely loose the beat totally if you are not concentrating...

I also agree with what was said before, lock in to a stronge melody player and listen to them and what they are doing... Most of the times I have found the strongest player to be the one who started the tune in the first place...

Most of all though I play what I think goes with the tune... most of all bodhran playing is very personal, it alters with each player, and the style and way you play along to a tune is all very personal development.

Have fun though gnu...

I've a comptetition coming up soon for the bodhran, (comhaltas) and I'm playing in the senior bodhran comp for the very first time... after years of my friends nagging me to have a go, I am now... hmmm! All of your questions came into my head... and even though I am doing it for the experience... I know that the judge is going to have his very own personal thoughts on the playing and what HE likes... oh well... here goes.. .once more into the breach... go I...lol

All the very best... Ella


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: Offbeat Bodhrán
From: Mr Red
Date: 30 Mar 01 - 07:28 AM

Apparently blues guitarists find the average Hranner too predictable and prefer less bodhran like rhythms. Back beat or delayed.
Me? I just hit the thing. Can't tell you how 3/4 or 6/8 differ. Go with the flow, blend. I have occasionally been encouraged to play louder! (ooooer)
I never lead, but do syncopate when in good company. It seems to me the more a drummer thinks, the more he acts like a "foot massage".


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: Offbeat Bodhrán
From: GUEST,Passing Stranger
Date: 30 Mar 01 - 07:29 AM

Q: What's the difference between a new pair of trainers and a bodhran player?

A: A new pair of trainers bucks up your feet...............


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: Offbeat Bodhrán
From: GUEST,JohnB
Date: 30 Mar 01 - 01:00 PM

There's an echo in here Mr Red, I got your joke the first time around. I also agree with your thought about thinking, that's when it all goes wrong for me. If I just hit the thing it normally sounds ok. I think that I have a 4/4 brain though. The pineapple oranges stuff I have to think about tooo much. JohnB


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: Offbeat Bodhrán
From: Rich(bodhránai gan ciall)
Date: 30 Mar 01 - 06:25 PM

Good luck in competition, Ella!

Mr. Red, A bodhrán is still (technically) an instrument. You do need to think. To "just hit the thing" is why we're held in such low regard. I've had people ask me to play louder too on occasion, or move to hear me more clearly, but it's as a result of thinking, listening, and not blindly flailing away at the drum. I had a great teacher, who kept pushing me when I wanted to think what I was doing was good enough, I pick the brain of any good player I get the opportunity to talk to, and now I have students keeping me on my toes.

Gnu, find an experienced player to work with you, if you can. The more good players you listen to the better you can gauge the sound you're going for, and the better you can who to listen to. If not, instuctional tapes will help, but they can't listen to you and give you feedback on your progress. Once again, good luck!
Rich


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: Offbeat Bodhrán
From: Ella who is Sooze
Date: 02 Apr 01 - 04:35 AM

Thanks Rich... Will let you know how I get on...

6 days and counting...

hmmm


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: Offbeat Bodhrán
From: Mr Red
Date: 02 Apr 01 - 08:07 AM

Rich(bodhránai gan ciall)
Perhaps I am being too self-effacing.
I play by feel and consider the other musicians, But at the end of the day if I am counting the strokes I inevitably get the right number but not necessarilly in the right place. So any thinking is geared to anticipation and embellishment.
In fact most dynamic endeavours I find the skill is what atheletes call "muscle memory". It is actually in the brain and involves a lot of anticipation but the phrase says enough.
As Yehudi Menhuen said, you have to want to play the instrument enough, the theory & hours of practice will follow.
If the other musicians are considered, their ire is not present and you can get on with enjoying it. & I had to think about that to get comfortable.
Offline thinking.
But I agree, one can approach anything as a joke or do it properly and that attitude shows in the results.
accept my most grovelling apologies for bringing disrepute to the brotherhood.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: Offbeat Bodhrán
From: Mr Red
Date: 02 Apr 01 - 08:09 AM

Sorry I ment "personhood"
phew that was close.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: Offbeat Bodhrán
From: Ella who is Sooze
Date: 09 Apr 01 - 06:18 AM

Just to let you all know...

I came second, getting Silver in my bodhran competition on Sunday. With 82%.

I'm dead chuffed, it's the first time I have ever done a Comhaltas competition, next stage London...

Dead Pleased!!!

Ella


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: Offbeat Bodhrán
From: gnu
Date: 09 Apr 01 - 07:03 AM

Congrats !!!!!!!

gnu


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: Offbeat Bodhrán
From: Rich(bodhránai gan ciall)
Date: 09 Apr 01 - 11:56 PM

Congratulations, Ella,

Make us proud!

Rich


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: Offbeat Bodhrán
From: alison
Date: 10 Apr 01 - 12:45 AM

well done Ella .... maybe you'll play it on paltalk sometime????

slainte

alison


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: Offbeat Bodhrán
From: Ella who is Sooze
Date: 10 Apr 01 - 08:02 AM

Hey Alison...

will do...when I sort the mic out... been a bit busy to go and buy a new one...

Ta all

Ella


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: Offbeat Bodhrán
From: Morticia
Date: 10 Apr 01 - 03:06 PM

Congratulations Ella, who's a clever little bodrhan player then? See, there are some!*BG*


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: Offbeat Bodhrán
From: Tig
Date: 10 Apr 01 - 06:18 PM

Which competition were you in? I'm all for a little off beat bodhran but I know others who can't cope with it. Usually I go with the flow and see what comes out - after years of practice most times it works and if not I go for strict tempo QUIETLY!!!!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: Offbeat Bodhrán
From: Ella who is Sooze
Date: 18 Apr 01 - 05:11 AM

hallo... just got back from Ireland, where I went for my Easter break... lovely it was too... really relaxing...

Went to Kerry - ahhhh bliss...

Tig.. it was the Comhaltas competition a regional fleadh cheoil...

By the way... the Kerry pace for sessions... jeeeeze! Fast! had a blast though...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: Offbeat Bodhrán
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 19 Apr 01 - 01:31 AM

To Mr. Red: You say you don't know the difference between 3/4 and 6/8. Well, if a measure of 6/8 music is all in eighth notes, then you can sing "one lolly, two lolly" to it. For example, the Irish Washerwoman goes "oh it's, one lolly, two lolly, one lolly two lolly..."

If it's a 3/4 song and it's all in eighth notes, then you can sing "Henrietta Evans" to it. If you know the Strauss waltz Du und du, it's a good example.

The measures will look the same, but the stress is in a different place.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: Offbeat Bodhrán
From: GUEST,Mr Red @ Library
Date: 19 Apr 01 - 12:40 PM

Yea
I just have to think of my bank account
one lolly, two lolly
Then I run out of notes hoho.
Leenia, - I guess I will give it a try, but can I apologise to any 'catters at Upton Festival (May BH) in advance for any miscounts while I prcatice.
I am an offline thinker and usually do dynamic things by feel - be it dancing or badminton.
TA for the mnemonic though.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate
  Share Thread:
More...

Reply to Thread
Subject:  Help
From:
Preview   Automatic Linebreaks   Make a link ("blue clicky")


Mudcat time: 22 April 11:12 AM EDT

[ Home ]

All original material is copyright © 1998 by the Mudcat Café Music Foundation, Inc. All photos, music, images, etc. are copyright © by their rightful owners. Every effort is taken to attribute appropriate copyright to images, content, music, etc. We are not a copyright resource.