Help: Singing tempo & driving the beat

Subject: Singing tempo & driving the beat
From: Les B
Date: 31 Mar 01 - 10:29 PM

The group I play with has been having fun and going through a learning experience with a Tascam overdub recorder. We've had to tear apart some of our songs to record in parts, first the laying down the rhythm tracks (bass & guitar, etc.) and then adding vocals and lead instruments later.

One of the things we have some interesting discussions about is the tempo of certain songs. We're not Bluegrass players, so we're not trying to burn up the strings. The general consensus is that a song sung too fast makes the words hard to understand. Conversely, too slow makes it "boring and dirgey".

One of our group claims that you can slow the tempo but still "drive the beat" although we're all at a loss about how to do that.

Any suggestions or tips on how to arrive at sprightly but understandable lyrics, and how to, instrumentally, make a song move along ?!?

Subject: RE: Help: Singing tempo & driving the beat
From: GUEST,Timothy Cameron
Date: 31 Mar 01 - 10:46 PM

One thing I've done with some songs when I've had to slow them down, is too "busy up" the guitar. Let's say if I was strumming quarter notes at the fast speed, I'd strum eighth notes at the slow speed, therby slowing the song down, but compensating for the "dirge"-like qualities of the slower tempo. Only works on some occasions of course, but might be worth a try. Hope that helps.Timothy

Subject: RE: Help: Singing tempo & driving the beat
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 31 Mar 01 - 11:24 PM

It's called phrasing.

Subject: RE: Help: Singing tempo & driving the beat
From: GUEST,Timothy Cameron
Date: 31 Mar 01 - 11:29 PM

THAT'S the word!!

Subject: RE: Help: Singing tempo & driving the beat
From: wysiwyg
Date: 01 Apr 01 - 12:04 AM

Les,

Well, the slower a piece is, the "thicker" the texture needs to be, usually, to avoid it sounding draggy. This means adding instrumentation or inceasing the effect of the existing instrumentation. It takes special skill and talent to make a slow, spare arrangement work.

What does not help is adding more guitars... but as TC said, using them differently. Adding a layer of sound over or under the existing pitch ranges helps here also-- add a high fiddle to a low piece, or a bass, cello, or other low-pitch item to something in a higher range.

You don't want more people on the melody or even necessarily on the harmonies, though-- what you want are the small ornamentations that add some twinkle and sparkle to your already-good arrangements, especially under or over any long-held notes.

You aren't looking to cover any skill problems, or overlay sounds that cover up your best tone. You just have to fill in bald spots the same way a writer makes good paragraph transitions... connect all the dots. What an opportunity , too with recording... one guitar player can lay out the melody, then come back in and do his own ornamentation. I just heard a two-fiddle piece like that-- I am sure it is one player, doing his own second part. Wonderful effect.

And do not underestimate rhythm instruments to help with all this-- a little rain stick or chime action, even the good old tambourine-- all these can fatten up your texture.

The additional texture is less important when the singing and playing skills are real good. But if the singing lacks, for instance, good diaphragmatic support, slower material will expose all of the shortcomings. So anyone in your group who is refining their skills will find more and more to be concerned about the slower you go and the thinner your texture.

I use the autoharp quite a bit when our jam group is trying something a bit beyond their skill level, or something that is best done slow but for which we may lack skills or enough players. If someone else is covering the rhythm pretty well, I will take up a very strong back beat, with the volume depending on the song and the other parts being played. Or I may set up a syncopated strum within the rhythm to pop the beat... give a little flip at the end of the phrase that makes the beat itself an echo of my jumped beat.

If you listen to a good bluegrass or old timey string band or jug band, and listen to the instruments separately one by one, you will notice that the rhythm guitar or other instrument is doing some varying things here and there. Just listen to as much as you can and see what tricks are being employed. Listening to ragtime helps too. Rhythms within rhythms within rhythms. Same with baroque choral music. Have a fugue.

I found that a good book of drumming patterns really helped me develop what was already a good ear for rhythm. It was great to just play these by slapping my hands on the table. You also can find out a lot about new approaches to rhythm using a drum machine or an keyboard with rhythm... run as many different rhythm settings as possible on some old favorite songs and you will go into some new areas quick!

For singability of your lyrics you want to use some of the tricks used in classical singing-- really push the consonants, and place the consonant just ahead of the beat so that the vowel falls right on the beat. And never hold a consonant-- hold a vowel and then hit the consonant hard to close the duration of the note. You wahhhhh-nt to sihhhhhh-ng lahhhhhh-ike thihhhhh-ts. Oh yeah. Don't sing ssss. Sing ts. It will not sound like ts. It will sound like a crisp s.

Our group seems to jell when I make them sit douwn and listen to something different... they are all curious and want to learn as much as they can, so listening with the intention of learning has helped them. If you ask your folks to bring stuff for everyone to hear, you might be surprised what trickles into your group's sound as a result.

Borrow from any genre, too, to add to your sound. You never know. It could be that a polka band has just the thing you are missing!

Last-- play with others. Ask everyone in your group to do that. Hope at least one item in all this is helpful-- please do let us know!

~Susan

Subject: RE: Help: Singing tempo & driving the beat
From: Sorcha
Date: 01 Apr 01 - 12:50 AM

Yes, but......too much rhythm beat can walk on the lyrics too much. Too much tamborine or "trap set" can be especially distracting. I'm going with Dick's suggestion of phrasing, plus diction, syllable emphasis and emoting.

Back when we had a wash tub bass, we would lay a tamborine on his bass board so that it "played itsself". Guy once asked us to "turn off the bells". We are entirely acoustic, so it took us a while to figure out what he meant!

Subject: RE: Help: Singing tempo & driving the beat
From: Les B
Date: 01 Apr 01 - 03:38 PM

WYSIWYG - Thanks for some great ideas, especially on the singing. We can add autoharp and tambourine, and may experiment with that. We have discovered that adding too much "texture" can cover up or detract from a spare but beautiful vocal. Your ideas about the beats, however, are where we need to experiment.

Sorcha - good idea about laying the tambourine on the washtub. I'm curious to see if our bass player will cooperate about attaching one, somehow, to her upright. We've already faked a set of "bones" by using a kitchen knife rubbed over a large carnation creamer bottle. The indents in the bottle made it sound darned close to the real thing !

Subject: RE: Help: Singing tempo & driving the beat
From: Sorcha
Date: 01 Apr 01 - 05:11 PM

Les, Herb has a sheet of wood, about 3'x3' with chocks in 3 places to raise most of the bucket off the board. These have turnbuckle clamps on them to hold the bucket on the board. Gives the tub a bigger sound (because it has a "soundboard) and we laid the tambo skin side down on the edge of the board.

Subject: RE: Help: Singing tempo & driving the beat
From: Peg
Date: 01 Apr 01 - 05:34 PM

I think that's true, Les, that layering too much "texture" can indeed detract from a pure and spare vocal. The vocalist can add texture of his/her own, can energize the song with more ornamentation, emotion, unique phrasing, etc. which can "punch up" the energy of slower tunes as much as (or more than) a more complex instrumentation...

(this from a singer who has done a lot of "arranging" in groups I have been in, but does it with intuition more than "musicality" if that makes any sense; i.e., knowing/feeling what sounds "right")

good luck with your project; sounds fun! Makes me wish I was in a band again...

Peg

Subject: RE: Help: Singing tempo & driving the beat
From: wysiwyg
Date: 01 Apr 01 - 07:19 PM

Yes, absolutely-- if the vocal skill IS there, you don't step on it. If you have it, showcase it.

~S~

Subject: RE: Help: Singing tempo & driving the beat
From:
Date: 01 Apr 01 - 08:01 PM

In my experience, what differentiates between a "dragging" tune and a "driving" one is not the tempo, but WHERE you sing relative to the beat. If you sing slightly ahead of the beat (as in most bluegrass songs), the song has a "driving" feel. If you sing slightly behind the beat (as in most jazz), the song has a "laid back" feel. Note that this is an entirely different issue than playing fast or slow, or speeding up vs. slowing down. If you have a drum machine available, the easiest way to see this effect is to have a rock steady bass drum and then adjust the snare or high-hat so that it is either slightly before or slightly after where it "should" be. It often takes a lot of practice to learn how to adjust your singing so that you can sing ahead of, on top of, or behind the beat. But the effect is worth it.

Subject: RE: Help: Singing tempo & driving the beat
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 02 Apr 01 - 12:52 AM

Try listening to any of Jimmy Yancey's slow boogie numbers. Or listen to Billy Holiday. You don't have to overwhelm an audience. Or a song.

Subject: RE: Help: Singing tempo & driving the beat
From: Mr Red
Date: 02 Apr 01 - 12:51 PM

A well played hornpipe can be slowed down a lot. Slower than you can dance it sensibly - possibly. Try one.