 sj |
||
|
||
BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!!
|
|
|
Subject: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: catspaw49 Date: 03 Apr 01 - 11:38 AM Yes, right here, on this very thread, you can crap all over the States and in true freedom loving fashion, it don't matter a rat's ass where you're from or who you are, just beat the livin' shit out of the country..........and get it out of your system. Those of us who live here are well aware of the problems and flourishing stupidity in decision making that are here and in most cases, you'll be "preaching to the congregation." We know. A lot of us are working on it. Don't expect any miracles. Instead of running ten threads a week on various and sundry idiocies which we have perpetuated, save the bandwidth and bast our ass here. Again, we know. We're working on it. Don't expect any miracles. If you're a citizen of the US, don't get all xenophobic or defensive here either. Feel free to blast away at all the injustices which the country has and don't try to defend the place. For all of our problems, its not too bad a place but we can do better.........and we can do worse. We know don't we? We're working on it aren't we? No miracle cures though huh? So let's get it going......Crank out all the tired bullshit and any fresh stuff and have at it!!! Smack the hell out of the place!!!! ......AND THEN BE DONE WITH IT FOR CHRIST'S SAKE!!!! No folks......I'm not xenophobic or jingoistic or or any other "ics"........just tired of the crap. When y'all are finished maybe we can find some lyrics, discuss some instrument lore, get some playing tips, research some song or another, talk about kids or jobs, find the best buy on Elixir strings................................ Spaw |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: Dahlin Date: 03 Apr 01 - 11:42 AM Amen Spaw |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: Troll Date: 03 Apr 01 - 11:42 AM Dreamer. troll |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: Murray MacLeod Date: 03 Apr 01 - 11:46 AM Yeah I agree. Let's cut the criticism of the USA and SOCK IT TO THE BRITS instead. Murray |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: LR Mole Date: 03 Apr 01 - 11:47 AM But...but...oooOOOooo this makes me so MAD. And yet tranquil. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: harpmolly Date: 03 Apr 01 - 11:47 AM Managed Care! HMO's! Bah, Humbug!!! M |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: KingBrilliant Date: 03 Apr 01 - 11:48 AM Well its a big country - so I suppose there are bound to be a lot of targets. Proportionally I don't expect its any worse or better than anywhere else. From what I can see its got lots of nice people in it - so I decline to bash thanks. Kris |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 03 Apr 01 - 11:50 AM A bit oversensitive at times...But actually when you think of, that's a form of humility. Really arrogant people are completely oblivious to insults and criticism. (For example the English always used to take that kind of stuff as a kind of complement when England was a world power.) Which would imply that Americans must really be the least arrogant people in the world. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: mousethief Date: 03 Apr 01 - 11:54 AM IT'S WHERE SPAW WAS BORN! |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: Brendy Date: 03 Apr 01 - 11:58 AM There's nothing wrong the States, as such, or most Americans that I have met. I always enjoy going there; I have seen quite a bit of it, and I'll be back again soon. People are people. It's not where you're from...it's who you are. B. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: Mrrzy Date: 03 Apr 01 - 11:58 AM Hey, that's worth celebrating, mousethief! But back to the question: My answer is all this emphasis on individual rights, where is individual responsibility, or community rights? On the other hand, what I like best about it is ... individual rights! There are countries we couldn't start this thread in... Just wish we could find the happy medium somewhere. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: Brendy Date: 03 Apr 01 - 12:02 PM Although, every time I fly into LAX, I can't help humming "Round round get around...I get around" B. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: SINSULL Date: 03 Apr 01 - 12:03 PM Just read the news headlines - HALF A BILLION DOLLARS has been lost by the Department Of Education to fraud, theft, and mismanagement. This includes about a million meant for schools on an Indian Reservation. There are schools in NYC that have no books and NO CHALK! How the F**K can this happen? Sometimes our government needs bashing! |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: Murray MacLeod Date: 03 Apr 01 - 12:10 PM If imperviousness to criticism is the barometer of arrogance, McGrath, then that makes the Scots the most arrogant people in the world. And I don't have to tell you who the least arrogant are. Murray |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: Sorcha Date: 03 Apr 01 - 12:10 PM CRASH! BANG! BASEBALL BATS! LEATHER BAT WINGS!EEJITS ALL! Oh, there, I feel so much better now!! ( I still think I live in the best country to live in AT THIS TIME!!)If you really think the place sucks, go live in Rwanda, Afghanistan, Columbia, I could think of a lot more.
|
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: SINSULL Date: 03 Apr 01 - 12:45 PM I know, Sorcha. That doesn't make our leaders the best men available for the job. Therein lies the rub. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: GUEST,petr Date: 03 Apr 01 - 12:49 PM I certainly like most Americans Ive met, what I dont agree is the current administration, pulling out of the Kyoto accord (W like his dad wont agree with anything that might jeopardize the American lifestyle) when in fact its quite possible that alternative energy might be a high growth area in the economy. Of course the latest propaganda on softwood lumber from Canada now that the latest agreement expired - |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: mousethief Date: 03 Apr 01 - 12:57 PM Actually that was bashing, Mrzzy. America should be eulogized, if at all, for its great inventions, the greatest of which is: BASEBALL. Gawd, I'm glad the winter is over! Alex the baseball fan |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: Brendy Date: 03 Apr 01 - 01:03 PM How can you criticise that which invented The New York Strip? B. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: mousethief Date: 03 Apr 01 - 01:05 PM Is that a particularly New Yorky way of removing one's clothes? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: GUEST,#1 Date: 03 Apr 01 - 01:07 PM Why bash the Americans? There are to many to finish the job. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: Brendy Date: 03 Apr 01 - 01:08 PM And afterwards somebody gets to eat the steak... B. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: GUEST,#1 Date: 03 Apr 01 - 01:08 PM TOO that is. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: mousethief Date: 03 Apr 01 - 01:10 PM Much too. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: Eric the Viking Date: 03 Apr 01 - 01:13 PM I think the country is beautiful- only the people spoil it! The same goes for the UK and every other place in the world. A peopleless world would be a wonderful place for the other animals to live. You can say what you like unless you attack me personally, thats different, I've never attacked anyone on mudcat and hardly ever in "real" life. I've met people from all over the world-there are only 4 types, truly good, truly bad, bad with some good in them, good with some bad in them. Peace Eric |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: catspaw49 Date: 03 Apr 01 - 01:16 PM Hey.....Lemmee get in a shot here. Sinsull, I don't mind what they steal, I mind the way they spend what they don't!....and not just a little mismanagement either. Ohio is doing a big deal on "facilities" and will pull the state funding from any system that doesn't meet the guidelines. If this sounds OK in theory, the reality is something else. The survey for the city of Lancaster says they need to replace 11 out of 13 buildings and you need to SEE the ones they say need replaced. Not a great picture, but you can get the idea of how the high school "campus" looks from this PHOTO. The town has beautiful schools that anyone would be proud to have in their town, but NOPE....gotta' go...or no state aid! I understand the idea behind this as I know of many substandard buildings, but we are wasting a lot of money "getting it right" on this case. The standards will change to something more realistic, but in the meantime, we are pissing away hundreds of thousands doing the damn surveys.....Money better spent on the kids. Spaw |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: mousethief Date: 03 Apr 01 - 01:20 PM Yes, right here, on this very thread, you can crap all over the States I have crapped all over the States. I've crapped in Philadelphia, I've crapped in Chicago, I've crapped in Cleveland, I've crapped in Miami, I've crapped in Houston, I've crapped in Denver.... And so forth. Alex |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: GUEST Date: 03 Apr 01 - 01:22 PM Good idea, Spaw, but I doubt it will work. One of the longest running and most responded to series of threads here is the bush-bashing thread. It seems our music members have a keener interest in sharing opinions on the merits or shortcomings of the US president then they have in discussing guitar strings, folk festivals, chord voicings or folk song origins. ... reminds me of a Tee shirt my teenager sons used to wear; Keep Your Politics Out of My Music! |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: Jon Freeman Date: 03 Apr 01 - 01:22 PM "I still think I live in the best country to live in AT THIS TIME!!)" I'm not sure about that sorcha. I think the US looks lovely and I certainly want to visit and meet the friends I have made in the US but I think if I could choose where I lived, I would probably opt for Canada or possibly Australia or New Zealand. Jon |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: GUEST,#1 Date: 03 Apr 01 - 01:22 PM Eric, there's nothing wrong with the world that getting rid of the people wouldn't cure. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: Rick Fielding Date: 03 Apr 01 - 01:26 PM Beezball's been berry good to me. And I LOVE vermont! And Elderly Instruments, and Mandolin Brothers, and Gruhn Guitars, and New York, and Clam rolls, and Folk-Legacy, and Chicago, and Sing-Out, and American Pizza, and Pam Swan, and Spaw, and Mick and...oh fuckit...what was this thread about? Rick |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: GUEST,cookieless Jed Marum Date: 03 Apr 01 - 01:29 PM Ooops! I'm in the midst of a download, upgrading my Netscape so I'm using MSExplorer and apprently cookie-less, at the moment. That was me quoting my son's Tee shirts above Keep Your Politics Out of My Music! |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: mousethief Date: 03 Apr 01 - 01:38 PM I think everybody should think of the country they live in, "This is the best place in the world to live," or move to the place they think is better. Why stay in a second-rate place? Americans think their country is the best, and expect you to think your country is the best and if you don't think there must be something wrong with you. And can't at all figure out why you get mad when we think ours is the best. Maybe it's because we're such a young country, we don't have the world-weary cynicism born of thousands of years of living in the same place. Alex |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: Jon Freeman Date: 03 Apr 01 - 01:47 PM OK, Moushief so lets take the country's that sorcha listed for starters: "Rwanda, Afghanistan, Columbia"... are the people who live there supposed to think they live in the best country in the world? Supposing they all decided that the US was the best country in the world - they'd all leave, go to the US and you would welcome them all with open arms, right? Jon |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: mousethief Date: 03 Apr 01 - 01:50 PM I'm not saying they should think CONDITIONS in their country are the best in the world. We don't think that of our country. Those who care, try to change the conditions in their own country so that it lives up to the ideals they have for it. We've still got some of the most liberal immigration laws in the world. Moushief??? Alex |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: GUEST,Matt_R Date: 03 Apr 01 - 02:25 PM Jed, I agree perfectly! Even time a new political issue comes up..BANG there are 80 trillion new 1000 post long threads here. The music and the fun BS is a thing of the past...soon we will evolve into a political forum... And people, it's spelled COLOMBIA!! "Columbia" is the United States...you know, Columbia The Gem of The Ocean? YEAH YEAH YEAH! YEAH YEAH YEAH! |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 03 Apr 01 - 02:29 PM I doubt if there are that many people in any country who've been living there for thousands of years, alex. One hundred and a bit seems the top whack.
So far as the land itself is concerned, apart from a few bits of Holland, it's all been around about the same length of time, wherever you are on this planet.
And as for nation states and constitutions "we're such a young country" - hell, the USA is one of the oldest around. Can anyone name any other country running around with a two-hundred year old consitution? I think some deference to old age should be in order in relation to the US of A. All right, maybe you get a bit cranky at times, but that's what happens to all of us when we're getting on. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: Amos Date: 03 Apr 01 - 02:35 PM Spaw: FOLLOW THE MONEY!!! Someone's running a very lucrative contract on the otherside of that pressure point. Jesus how patent, how blatant, how greedy, how selfish, how short-sighted, how unintelligent, how uncompassionate, how AMERICAN!!!! A |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: Seamus Kennedy Date: 03 Apr 01 - 03:48 PM 'Spaw, I've had just about enough of your crap! I hate Elixir Strings. There, I said it. They play like dead telephone wires. Thanks, I feel better now. Seamus |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: catspaw49 Date: 03 Apr 01 - 04:20 PM But Seamus......Some people think they're slicker than a mini's peter. I have no idea what that expression means, but anyway somebody was looking for a price on a case of the things. So do you think my crap would work better then goretex? Since I respect your opinion Seamus I could send you some additional crap to try. Of course you do say you've had enough and all............Maybe it was a bad batch? One thing about my crap and goretex.....both are made in the USA. Spaw |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: Bert Date: 03 Apr 01 - 04:52 PM I quite agree with you Seamus, they are the height of Crass United States Consumerism. They take some perfectly good strings cover them with some cheap plastic that makes them LOOK like crap after a few minutes of playing and mark the price up to four times what they are worth. Ah well, there's one born every minute. They sell them to those same guys who buy the little clamp on weights that they claim will make your guitar sound better. I'm sure that you could sell those same guys some of YOUR crap Spaw, just tell 'em it's string lubricant;-) |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: mousethief Date: 03 Apr 01 - 05:04 PM Thanks, Amos, for lumping me in your stereotype of money-grubbing Americans. Fuck you too.
Lovingly, |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: Bill D Date: 03 Apr 01 - 06:43 PM The United States 'probably' shouldn't be united....that is, it should probably be 4 or 5 different countries...the parts are that different. But, it is what it is...a VERY big, lucky, interesting part of the world, with a constitution that works pretty well on the whole, while allowing some strange stuff as part of the price for freedom!...Almost any bashing is partially deserved...but so is almost any praise. 'Taint worth generalized bashing..only pointing out small, current problems...like the crazy recent election!...Some people who VOTED for Dubya are now shaking their heads in wonder,,,and thay ain't seen nuthin' yet!...I hope what's left of our positive reputation survives this 4 years! |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: Little Hawk Date: 03 Apr 01 - 09:55 PM Naw...too easy. I say let's go after Belgium for a change. - LH |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: Mark Clark Date: 03 Apr 01 - 10:09 PM I thought you all might enjoy "Some Thoughts From Abroad" just to get another perspective on the U.S. Enjoy, - Mark |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: Jon Freeman Date: 03 Apr 01 - 10:23 PM I did - thanks Mark |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: artbrooks Date: 03 Apr 01 - 11:16 PM Dubya..Dubya..Dubya..Dubya..Dubya..Dubya..Dubya..Dubya.. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: DougR Date: 04 Apr 01 - 02:16 AM Gee, Alex, thanks for sharing your bathroom history with us! DougR |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: mousethief Date: 04 Apr 01 - 02:21 AM Of all the people on the Mudcat, Doug, I didn't expect you to say that. Alex |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: Terry K Date: 04 Apr 01 - 02:33 AM So Little Hawk, this "Belgium" - where exactly is it? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: Sorcha Date: 04 Apr 01 - 02:47 AM Oh come on, guys.........he meant this as a fun, silly thing, and here you are all taking it way too serious!!!JesuCrapO, no place is perfect, unless it's a planet in SciFi.......and I haven't met very many of those either.
Jon, you are right........Canada, Australia and New Zealand would be my choices if I felt I needed to leave here. Freedom of THOUGHT is somehow really important to me.....also, freedom to perform what I think needs to be performed.....and there are bloody few places on the planet that allow either of those.Take a minute to think about Pete Seeger, Malvina Reynolds, Tom Paxton, Don MacLean, or even NEIL YOUNG trying to perform in a few other countries I can think of.......
Think Alexander Solginetzin (sp?), Salman Rushdie,James Joyce, Ezra Pound.......(I know, I know, there were authors who were banned in the US---Lawrence, Fitzgerald and others, and there are still schools in the US which ban books, but as a whole, the US has one of the most Open Societies on the planet now. We have our problems, but so does Canada (the Quebecquois), Australia (Aboriginal rights),the UK has a monumental taxtation problem.......hey, everybody's got problems, but at least mine aren't as bad as Bosnia et. al., Afghani womens', or even some Ultra Orthodox Jewish women. At least nobody wants to kill me just because I am female, or a white Anglo-Saxon Protestant descendent.....(yet). Matt, sorry for the typo that let in Columbia vs Colobia.......it was just habit. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: DougR Date: 04 Apr 01 - 02:50 AM Say what, Alex? DougR |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: Tone d' F Date: 04 Apr 01 - 03:14 AM Belgium is acar park on the way from the UK to Holland What's with this American bashing bit all I see is Americans Waffling on, I mean for heavens sake you have a beutiful country full of wide open spaces, shame you put teeth around them |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: Sorcha Date: 04 Apr 01 - 03:24 AM Tone, yes we do, and it is difficult to generalize about such a large geographic place.....but our Politics, now that is just crazy! |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: Tone d' F Date: 04 Apr 01 - 03:44 AM It always concerned me that someone would spend millions to get the job of president which only pays thousands don't vote for them, it only encourages them |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: GUEST,Roger the skiffler Date: 04 Apr 01 - 05:45 AM There are aspects of America I don't like, just as there are aspects of the UK. BUT, I like a lot of Americans, and American music is my main repertoire, and I like even more Americans since coming to the Mudcat, you are (mostly!) great ambassadors for your country. Let's never confuse the nation, or its population in general, with the individuals. RtS (we ae all different, and I am more different than most!) |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: GUEST,Lanfranc at the office Date: 04 Apr 01 - 06:27 AM Let he (or she) whose Country is without sin cast the first turd! Kyoto, which I suspect was the root of this thread, is all but unworkable anyway, for a start it excludes China and India. OK, they don't all drive round in 4 litre SUVs, but all those sacred cow farts and coal fires probably make up for that. One good volcanic eruption could undo all our efforts anyway. No harm in trying, though. "Wish I was in the land of Martin, where good times are always startin'" "No one likes us, don't know why, we may not be perfect, but heaven knows we try!" (Randy Newman - "Political Science") |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 04 Apr 01 - 07:52 AM "UK has a monumental taxation problem" - well they cut down the upper income tax level way too low which meant not spending enough on the stuff we all need. The petrol tax isn't high enough to make us use more sensible ways of getting around.
But if you want to pick out the things that get in the way of England being a much better place to live, there are more appropriate things to pick out than the taxation. A surly bad-tempered populace, that takes pride in its least admirable qualities, and sneers at its good qualities. But that's mostly just superficial, beneath all that there's the good stuff ready to come bubbling out again. Once they get into the folk music there's a radical transformation for the good. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: KitKat Date: 04 Apr 01 - 07:58 AM I think it must be something to do with the weather ... I defy anyone to live in the UK and not get depressed, when it has been raining almost constantly for eighteen months. We're also just too damn crowded. At least America has lost of room! And even when your weather is bad, at least you know summer will come eventually. I've stopped hoping. Yours, sunk in misery Kit Kat |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 04 Apr 01 - 08:07 AM Nobody lives in "the UK". They live in England, Scotland, Ireland, Wales and Cornwall. And it's been raining since the Romans and before, and it never stopped people enjoying a good grumble about the weather. (We know a song about that...) |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: KitKat Date: 04 Apr 01 - 08:18 AM I know I live in England. It's just that (here comes the US-bashing) our transatlantic friends in general think of us all as a conglomerate lump next door to Europe (which is of course, all one country!) I'm still grumpy! |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: artbrooks Date: 04 Apr 01 - 09:08 AM "A conglomerate lump next door to Europe" called the UK? Nah. Most Americans think of the big one as England and the little one as Ireland. If we think twice about it, we remember that Scotland and Wales (sorta) are separate. NOBODY here thinks of Cornwall at all, much less as distinct from the rest of the Big Island. Its hard enough to remember that the southern 3/4s or so of the Little Island is a different country. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: Jon Freeman Date: 04 Apr 01 - 09:59 AM sorcha, I was just splitting hairs over the best place to live as I don't think the US would be my first choice. Having said that, I do view the US as a country with a lot going for it and I think we are pretty much in agreement. Jon |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: mousethief Date: 04 Apr 01 - 11:09 AM Isn't Cornwall still part of England? Aren't England, Scotland and Wales still part of the UK? Does England have a seat in the United Nations, or does the UK? We think of you as a lump because you made yourselves one. Unlump, and we'll think of you separately. We're very flexible. Alex |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: Jon Freeman Date: 04 Apr 01 - 11:42 AM OK Mousthief Jon |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: SINSULL Date: 04 Apr 01 - 12:04 PM Maybe there should be a NYC Bashing thread for this: Curtiss Sliwa, who claims to "know the difference between a Michelob and a Michalangelo" has been named to a decency panel to judge whether or not art is offensive. NYC Names Decency Panel The Associated Press Apr 4 2001 11:04AM NEW YORK (AP) - A city ``decency commission,'' created to judge the morality of publicly funded art, will include three artists, three clergy members, Guardian Angels founder Curtis Sliwa and the mayor's own divorce lawyer. Mayor Rudolph Giuliani, who named the panel's 20 members Tuesday, said he had hoped they could issue a report on decency standards within three months, but they said it would likely take longer. Giuliani, a Republican, has nine months left in office. ``It is certainly appropriate for this advisory group to take a look at what standards, if any, should be applied, (given that) the city of New York currently provides $115 million in annual operating funding to cultural institutions,'' Giuliani said. The panel was created after Giuliani became incensed two months ago by a photograph at the city-funded Brooklyn Museum of Art. The 5-foot-tall photo, called ``Yo Mama's Last Supper,'' shows a nude, black woman portraying Jesus surrounded by disciples. Giuliani called the work ``disgusting'' and ``anti-Catholic.'' The mayor used similar language in 1999 to denounce another artwork at the Brooklyn Museum: a painting of the Virgin Mary dappled with elephant dung. Giuliani halted city funding of the museum, but a federal court later ordered the city to resume it. Among the new panel's members are Leonard Garment, 75, who is to head a subcommittee to decide how to deal with art deemed offensive. In 1990, Garment co-chaired the federal Independent Commission on the National Endowment for the Arts when that group was under attack by conservative senators for funding art they found indecent. The commission voted to oppose restrictions on the content of art the agency could fund. On Tuesday, Sliwa - who at 47 is one of the younger commission members - acknowledged that he knew little about art but believes he can contribute. ``I know the difference between a Michelob and a Michelangelo'' said Sliwa, who wore his trademark red beret and satin jacket. ``I think I can be as fair as anyone making those determinations.'' Other members include Giuliani's attorney, Raoul Felder, and Alfred Curtis Jr., president of the United Nations Development Corp., as well as a rabbi, a bishop and an imam, a humanities professor and a free-lance news producer.
The artist Peter Max declined to join after other artists criticized the panel and several news organizations reported that Max had been convicted of income tax evasion.
|
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: catspaw49 Date: 04 Apr 01 - 12:27 PM Well Sins my dear.....It isNYC. And truthfully, NYC should be a state unto itself.....maybe a separate country. I think we have gone for so long now with the state concept based on old deeds and the like, its time we scrap the whole thing and gerrymander up some new divisions and states that made sense. Think about it folks. Have you been to Charleston, S.C.? It has NOTHING to do, no similarities at all, with the rest of the state. For that matter, neither does Jacksonville to Florida, Virginia Beach to Virginia, etc. Why not go about 30 miles inland from Jacksonville to Virginia Beach and make that a state? Take southern Georgia, northern Florida, and L.A. (lower Alabama) and make that a state.......call it "Cracker." Take the whole area of central Florida and call it "Mickey." Why not make the "Rust Belt" from Pittsburgh to Milwaukee and form a new state there? The possibilities are out there to put groupings together that actually have things in common. Just a thought....... Spaw |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: Eric the Viking Date: 04 Apr 01 - 01:41 PM Well, I guess there is really litle hope for mankind, when such a group of people, who share a common interest, a fairly, though not recent, evolution from, mainly, Europe, though before that it seems, we all came out of Africa and made different stops along the way, have to resort to bickering like the very immature children I teach. I spend all day telling them that we must learn to get along if the human race is to reach anything like it's true potential and that they must understand that people can hold different points of view without it always seeming like a threat to our own sense of security. I shan't post on this thread again (no great loss I hear you say. If some of you lived next door to each other you'd be killing each other! What a way for an adult community to behave. I think it was Malvina Reynolds who wrote "When will they ever learn, when will they ever learn?" One parting thought. If the continents hadn't drifted apart millions of years ago, then we would all still be on one bloody big land mass. Then we'd be all Americapeons or euromericans. (Probably still kill each other off by the thousands, still-sad!) |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: GUEST Date: 04 Apr 01 - 03:52 PM Four things wrong with the USA: 1) The 1st person who crossed the bering sea for some unfathomable reason, inherited for himself the entire western hemisphere, then proceeded to charge the rest of us to use his space as each of our forefathers arrived. Except, if your folks arrived from Europe, you pay more cause whereever you settle turns out to be that first guy's sacred ground. 2) As each person arrives, he's suddenly overcome with a desire to pull up the welcome mat so the guy behind won't beat him to the last gold encrusted pavement. Thus creating a mystical impression that this is somehow the garden of Eden. It naturally follows then, that dissing is the best way to discourage others from showing up. 3) If we lined up all the folks in the USA according to skin color with the lightest and one end and the darkest at the other, we would still not see the silliness of race. We would still refuse to accept that people don't come in black and white, they in fact, come in ten thousand shades, and the difference between any two in that lineup would be so slight as to be undetectable. For instance, one popular issue today is reparations. To do that you'd have to walk up to that line and select the point at which all those to the left have to give dough to all those to the right. Okay, so lets have the names of the two between which you've drawn the line? 4) Public education is funded at all levels of government, but spending and curriculum, so we're told, is are controlled locally. And we suspect that explains why so little is understood about "cost per student" and "cost per student measured against results and compared against a standard". We also suspect the government withholds this data, and newspeople cooperate because: 1)they can't stand to see the facts that $/kid in innercity is far less than $/kid in exclusive suburbia, and, 2)they all have their kids in private schools, ala Chelsea, anyway. 5) Promised four, delivered five; how's that for typical snotty behavior. What more proof do you need that we deserve bashing.
|
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: gnu Date: 04 Apr 01 - 04:51 PM Well ****. There goes all my fun. Not that I ever REALLY bashed the US or Canada... just tried to promote discussion between two interchangable groups, each with good/bad attributes.... mostly good. Had some fun, though. BTW, to you Yanks that have said Canada would be one of your choices if you had to move, thanks. I consider that a compliment to Canada. I know I would only have one choice if I had to flee The True North.... God Bless America is a common saying around these here parts. Good idea, Spaw. I was getting kind of worn out with the multitude of threads with the recurring theme. I was rather trepidatious about reading this one and did so only after getting bored with the others. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: mousethief Date: 04 Apr 01 - 04:51 PM Kind of Eric the Viking to check in just long enough to tell us what's wrong with us, then tell us he's taking his ball and going home. This is the sort of vibrant, dynamic thinking that a community like this needs in order to grow and thrive, I'm thinking. If only more people would just bow out of threads they hate -- particularly if they could be persuaded to do it BEFORE posting of course -- what a wonderful world it could be. Alex |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: MAV Date: 05 Apr 01 - 12:12 AM Just the blue areas (and places with baseball fields)
SUCK!mav out |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: Troll Date: 05 Apr 01 - 12:38 AM tsk,tsk,tsk, MAV. Such negativism ill becomes you. Besides, you left out_________(insert pet peeve here) troll |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: DougR Date: 05 Apr 01 - 12:46 AM Is it safe to assume that all of you U.S citizens so upset with Bush's decision will stop traveling in a vehicle that uses gasoline? Es so? If everbody stopped using vehicles propelled by combustion engines, we wouldn't have this problem. I just bought some inline skates myself. DougR |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: mousethief Date: 05 Apr 01 - 12:50 AM I fail to see the logic of your snide remark, Doug. And MAV and I are permanently through, now that I find out he doesn't like baseball. I take back every nice word I ever said about you, MAV. Alex |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: Amergin Date: 05 Apr 01 - 01:00 AM Well, Doug, if Bossman Oil would permit mass production of alternative engines, we wouldn't have this problem.... |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: DougR Date: 05 Apr 01 - 01:58 AM Alex: Snide remarks? How unkind. Are my remarks untrue? Well, the inline skates are, I admit. Amergin: George W. is responsible for not permitting mass production of alternative engines? Tell me more. DougR |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: Amergin Date: 05 Apr 01 - 02:04 AM Did I mention shrub's name? No, I vaguely recall saying bossman oil....not sure where you read shrub in there... Haven't you ever wondered why alternative type engines are not massproduced? They have been around for years.... It is because the Oil Companies do not want them to be built because then they would lose out on all that money....and power.... But then what do I know...I'm from North Idaho and I tend to see conspiracies whenever a politician farts....
|
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: DougR Date: 05 Apr 01 - 02:14 AM Well, Amergin, not being familiar with the subject, I certainly can't argue with you. Wouldn't want to anyway, but if they have been around for years, I wonder how the current President of the US of A, who has been in office about 100 days, can be held responsible for their not being mass produced? The previous administration surely had enough time to encourage their use, yes? DougR |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: Amergin Date: 05 Apr 01 - 04:13 AM Hmmm, still trying to figure out where I mentioned any president... |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: Wolfgang Date: 05 Apr 01 - 04:24 AM Was that your idea, Spaw? The Americans do the bashing and we sit and watch? Wolfgang |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: gnu Date: 05 Apr 01 - 04:29 AM DougR said...If everbody stopped using vehicles propelled by combustion engines, we wouldn't have this problem. I just bought some inline skates myself. Had a good laugh picturing my 74 year old mother strapping on her inlines and plowing through the snow. Well, not exactly. Actually, I was laughing at the thought of her beating you senseless with the skates. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: DougR Date: 05 Apr 01 - 04:13 PM Thanks, GNU. Your mother would actually beat up on an old decrepit 71 year old man? And with inline skates, yet! I'll bet she is nicer than that. DougR |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: DougR Date: 05 Apr 01 - 04:16 PM Amergin: you're absolutely right. You never mentioned President Bush. My error. Sorry. DougR |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: gnu Date: 05 Apr 01 - 04:23 PM DougR... 71 eh ? Didn't know your age. But if your 71 and up for inlines.... hell, my Mum doesn't even know what inlines are.... perhaps she'd not hit on you too hard, nudge, nudge, wink, wink. Although she is kind of old fashioned. I don't know if she'd go for a younger guy. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 05 Apr 01 - 04:30 PM I take it MAV's blown it with any patriotic American now, what with the baseball and all. I mean politics is all very important in its place - but relatively pretty small beer in comparison. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: MAV Date: 05 Apr 01 - 06:10 PM Mouse, "I take back every nice word I ever said about you, MAV"
What word was that....."the"?
Troll,
Actually other than DeAshole and the RINOs, things are pretty wonderful.
Alternate transportation types.
I'm getting ready to fire up my alternate engine vehicle. It's got an "External Combustion" engine as opposed to algor's declared enemy, the "Internal Combustion" engine.
I first had to remove the nasty old gasoline engine and its catalytic converter and install the boiler, firebox and fuel storage area in the trunk.
The steam engine unit fits nicely under the hood and doesn't even require a radiator.
Although it gets pretty hot while driving it with that steam and all, it sure draws a lot of looks with its hissing steam and plumes of black smoke.
Kids really love it when I toot the steam whistle.
I figure it will go about 125 MPH but I've never had it above 100. Even at that speed it gets about 5 miles per gallon of used crankcase oil. It will also run on high sulphur coal and used tires.
Since I don't want to enrich the energy companies I like to recycle free things to burn like plastics and old car batteries. They burn really hot and help generate a lot of pressure.
The DEP and the DMV are both confounded since I'm neither an incinerator or a real "motor vehicle".
I got the idea from an old issue of Popular Science.
I'm starting my next project in a month... an external combustion homebuilt airplane.
mav out
Just kidding!
|
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: DougR Date: 05 Apr 01 - 06:51 PM GNU, well, I go for older women LOL!@ DougR |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: GUEST,Seth From China Date: 05 Apr 01 - 07:12 PM I'd rather focus on something closer to home for this diabetic-what do you do if you are downtown and you need to pee? Anywhere in the world? In San Francisco, it can be quite a challenge.and one time my wife and I arrived in Cleveland by bus early on a Sunday, walked to the Hotel Cleveland to get some breakfast, and were refused their toilets! We literally could not find a place in that city to piss! So we left, not to return for many years. IN China, it's pretty easy, public bathrooms are in lots of places. You have to pay about .04 cents to use them and often they are pretty gamy, but there they are. AMericans are quite private when they have a poop away from home, but Chinese are friendly and chatty. Oh, yeah, better bring your own toilet paper too, 'cause your not going to find it here. What about where you live? This is one of my standards of a liveable place. What I lke about the U.S. are public libraries, and thrift stores and more varieties of food. And my frienda and family, of course. I don't know if U.S. politicians are any worse than any place else I've traveled too, and that is not a compliment! Seth |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: Little Hawk Date: 05 Apr 01 - 07:26 PM For some real USA-bashing, see the War With Canada thread! Oh, baby!!! Hee. Hee. Alex - you and MAV are through??? Say it isn't so! I guess I'll be seeing headlines about this at the grocery checkout shortly...next to the Russel Crowe stories and across from Kidman and Cruise. You just can't depend on anythibg to last these days. - LH |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: GUEST,Seth(not a guest) from China Date: 06 Apr 01 - 02:55 AM WHat do the cops look like where you live.? For my money, the U.S. has some of the scariest looking cops in the world, with even store rent a cops packing. In China, at least where I have been, I don't see cops with guns at all, though I 'm sure they can produce them soon enough if needed. The way that the Chinese government gets it's message across is much more pervasive and subtle than that. This is one of the standards I use for how it feels to live somewhere. Of course, here you need to show your receipt or ticket to get out of the grocery store or train station. THe last time I was in the U.S ( summer 2000) I was in a place in Washington State that did this, but still I think it's pretty rare. But if I have to walk past two armed guards to get in the supermarket, and there is another one walking around inside, that makes me feel like leaving the store and the country. What is this like where you live? Seth |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: KitKat Date: 06 Apr 01 - 05:25 AM There are obvious exceptions (and we in the UK - or in England if you are being picky - have our share of racist and corrupt cops) but in general we grow up to think of cops as being the good guys and on our side (unless you are the bad guy of course). Our cops on the beat do not carry guns - maybe that's why we don't see them as a threat to public safety. Kit Kat |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: Troll Date: 06 Apr 01 - 08:00 AM Actually, MAV, Steam-powered cars were quite popular at one time (the Stanley Steamer comes to mind) but they lost out in the end to the internal combustion engine. I don't know why. Anyone have any idea? 'Spaw, perhaps? Not that 'Spaw was responsible ya dummy! I thought he might know the answer. I know he's to blame for a lot of things but this was before his time. In fact, it was before MY time. Or Kendalls. Or Dougs. troll |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 06 Apr 01 - 09:32 AM Most English police these days tend to look about 12, and small for their age. Much too young to be trusted with a gun, so it's as well they don't carry them.
That's not a complaint mind you. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: Les from Hull Date: 06 Apr 01 - 10:01 AM Troll - Steam cars, like most steam things, take a long time to get going. You have to boil the water first. Mind you, they did give us the word 'chauffeur'. While I'm here, can I take issue with you Americans who claim to have invented baseball. You didn't. We have it over here. It's called rounders and it's played by little girls. You did invent that game that you call Football, though. But it's not real football. You've got to use your feet for that. Foot - ball. Geddit? Ah, that's better. It's alright, nurse, I've calmed down now. Les |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: DougR Date: 06 Apr 01 - 03:49 PM Steam-powered cars. Remember them well! Huffing and puffing, emitting huge clouds of steam as the lumbered along the street. Oops, sorry, I'm thinking of steam-powered tractors pulling threshing machines. DougR |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: MAV Date: 06 Apr 01 - 05:16 PM I do believe the Stanley Steamer came from Kingfield Maine.
I saw a restored one go through town once, wouldn't catch me going a hundred in that glorified buckboard.
I hear they could.
mav out |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 06 Apr 01 - 07:05 PM It's quite possible to build steam engines that start quickly and work fast, with the water and the finely dispersed fuel sprayed through needle jets and so forth.
There just hasn't been the incentive to develop that kind of thing, because of the way the industry has been structured - and because it's been possible for polluters to escape paying for the cost of the damage to the environment. Effectively there is a huge subsidy paid by everyone to protect the polluting technologies. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: MAV Date: 06 Apr 01 - 07:42 PM Dear McGrath,
I agree that the technology is there. In fact it is possible for a good machinist to do it himself at home (for real).
Water is not an option in areas that have freezing temperatures, but refrigerant is.
You could probably figure out how to turn a piston refrigeration compressor into a "heat engine" as they are called, without too much trouble. All the pressurized gas and liquid could be contained and used indefinitely.
That is a lot of trouble when you consider that you can buy a propane powered vehicle now, and some "alternate energy regatta" guys won using a Mercedes diesel sedan running on an exotic blend of used french fry oil and alcohol.
It is also useful to know that today's American CARS (both domestic and for import) with catalytic converters run about 95% clean.
It wasn't always that way because trucks, motorcycles and garden equipment are all about as dirty as they ever were. There is little room for improvement on current models of passenger cars however, they basically produce H2O and CO2.
American standard cars are pretty clean, but VW makes (or did) a neat car called the "eco-diesel" a turbo-diesel with a catalytic converter, practically emissions free.
We have other sources of pollution that really make up for it though, like motor homes and oil/coal power plants.
Last year we had the wild west on wild fire. You can't tell me a summer of out of control fires in the wilderness doesn't contribute to pollution, and it's starting to happen again in Florida. Then there's the Volcanos of the world, all auto emissions pale by comparison.
mav out
|
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: GUEST,fe Date: 04 Apr 02 - 05:25 AM Why do citizens of the U.S. and Europeans insist upon abusing the environment by flushing their toilet paper down the sewer? We in SA we are more conscience of the environment. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: Joe in the'pool Date: 04 Apr 02 - 06:07 AM Hurray! a genuine place to carp! as many have done, about the champion of all the excesses of the world..Each American consumes 100 times more of the earths resources, than an Indian. (the real ones from India). So here are my comments on Mother Earths own plans, for the present and future, which can be avoided if we heed the ever so obvious advice "cut it out now". It's called 'How Long' clocks are ticking should we fly now that time is passing by Mother's pressing abort the 'man has done since it all began first class travels just to see third world folk on bended knee greed and profit contrive to run the greatest spin is yet to be spun spineless shivers for one and all to feel the iceburgs burn and fall but when our Mother cries no more sweet air returns as once before. Joe |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: Rolfyboy6 Date: 04 Apr 02 - 07:09 AM Aw c'mon you guys, Spaw, outa the goodness of his heart(?), offers you the opportunity to rant and howl and ya jist start with the love feast "Actually I really kinda like the place." Snivelling wimps. "God Bless us everyone." ooohhh, ooky, ooky, ook. The place looks like a strip mall and is covered with parking lots. The rivers flood 'cause there's so much oily run off from the asphalt. Wal-Mart, K-Mart, Fast-Mart, Easy Mart, Fast-n-Easy Mart, More-for-Less Mart, AM-PM Mart, Drive Mart. "Your snack food one-stop." "Meat snack convenience rack" with fifteen kinds of jerky and fifteen kinds of slim-jim dried machine extruded sausage facsimilies. And racks of cholesterol soaked starch/sugar food substitutes. Everywhere there are defectives driving with flag poles sticking out of the post holes of their trucks and big wind tattered american flags whipped to shreads making ugly ripping noises that scare horses and livestock. Our political "leadership." Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.
Johnny's in the basement |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: GUEST,Truthtroller Date: 04 Apr 02 - 08:51 AM You people live in the most evil driven country in the modern world and you wear blinkers to the fact.You suck the life blood from consumers and are in denial. America just keeps feeding the greedy kids. That is what you are in fact, a nation of kids a country with a mental outlook of an average eight year old. The crap you call entertainment that is sent to invade our homes is the sort of rubbish that wouldn't attract flies. At the top, be it commerce or politics, you have nothing but greed. You live in a society that will in the end consume itself, and you'll never get off your lazy fat butts in time cos your up to your greedy fat eyes in debt. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: Rolfyboy6 Date: 04 Apr 02 - 09:58 AM There ya go Pilgrim. I knew ya could do it. What about big block V-8s? Go for it. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: Kim C Date: 04 Apr 02 - 10:01 AM Hey man, you can turn off the TV, you know, and ain't nobody making you go to the movies or listen to the radio neither. I didn't realize that Americans are the only people on earth who buy things. Where the hell have I been? Toilet paper is biodegradable, by the way, and less irritating than the corn cobs and leaves we used to use before the days of indoor plumbing. Here's my solution. I'll go around naked, stop eating, and walk everywhere. Would that make everyone happy? Then I could prove to everyone that in fact, my butt is anything but fat and lazy.
|
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: Bobert Date: 04 Apr 02 - 10:29 AM You're right, Truthtroller. But you're placing the blame at the feet of the victims, rather than where it belongs, which is the ruling class, which rules not only us but most of the population of the earth. Their philosophy is "bare minimum". Everything is a deal. Everything is decided, from Enron to money for public schools, based on keeping a much for themselves and again, the "bare minimum" for the peasants. If the peasants win one little consession, the ruling class cry like babies, hire ad-men, lawyers and do everything they can to win back the consession. After all, it is their game. The average American worker is now working harder and longer for less real spending power than anytime in the last three decades. Our schools are in disrepair and our kids being taught only to pass standardized tests but not to think. The ruling class saw what happened in the 60's when kids were taught to think and they're not going to have any more of that for the masses. No, just a class of Epislons, content with their sitcoms and BigMacs. And Truthtroll, if you think that your neigbors are not being influenced by the world's ruling class, think again. This world is one big tribalized world. We see a 9 year old kid shot dead in the streets of pick-any country by some fanatic with a gun made and supplied by the ruling class and you'll notice the Nike's on his feet that were made in some other pick-any-third-world country for which you can bet brought profits to... you guessed it... the ruling class. So, Truthtroll, if you have a guilt bag to deliver, you're in the outhouse and need to get on the elevator to the penthouse. Just push the T button for, I'm on TOP of you peasants and that is the way it's gonna stay, if we have to kill every last one of you to do so. Rant over.... |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 04 Apr 02 - 11:36 AM "We in SA" - South Africa is that? If so , GUEST fe, I think you might be the first from there. (So what do you do with the bog paper?) |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: Kim C Date: 04 Apr 02 - 12:00 PM thanks Bobert. As a middle-classer who makes just enough money to survive, I am tired of being lumped into the Ruling Class and being told I am evil. It's true, I live better than many, but there are many who live much better than me, and by less honest means. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: Wolfgang Date: 04 Apr 02 - 12:12 PM Threads started by trolls Could the fine ideas of McGrath in the above thread I fully agree with also be applied to 'Very old threads refreshed by trolls'? Wolfgang |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: Little Hawk Date: 04 Apr 02 - 12:42 PM Ummmm...we'd better define what we mean by "United States" in this case...so's we kin know whut we is and whut we ain't bashin' here... Does United States mean: a) the geographical area of the 50 states? b) the citizenry, the ordinary American man and woman in the street? c) the governmental, financial, and military authorities in charge of the above? If it means (a) or (b), I'm not bashing it! If it means (c), then, yes! By all means...let's bash away!!! :-) After all, (a) and (b) are themselves being oppressed by (c) on a regular basis...and they need all the help they can get. - LH |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: GUEST Date: 05 Apr 02 - 12:23 PM In the midst of the hysterical war mongering of the US government and a state-controlled media that knows no shame, it is more than ever necessary to retain not only one's composure, but also one's ability to think, analyze, and reason. It is surely appropriate to mourn the terrible loss of life on September 11. But sympathy for the victims, their families and friends should not blind anyone to the fact that powerful sections of the US ruling elite view this tragedy as a welcome opportunity to implement a militaristic agenda that has been in the works for more than a decade.
Modern wars require a pretext, a casus belli that can be packaged to the public as a sufficient justification for the resort to arms. Every major war in which the United States has been involved since its emergence as an imperialist world power—from the Spanish-American War of 1898 to the Balkan War of 1999—has required a catalytic event that inflamed public opinion.
But whatever the nature of such trigger events, they never proved, in the light of sober historical analysis, to be the real cause of the wars that followed. Rather, the actual decision to go to war—while facilitated by the change in public opinion produced by the casus belli—flowed in each instance from more essential considerations rooted in the strategic political and economic interests of the ruling elite.
"War," said von Clausewitz in his oft-quoted aphorism, "is the continuation of politics by other means." This means, in essence, that war is a means by which governments seek to secure political ends they could not achieve peacefully. There is no reason to believe that this profound truth does not apply to the events that are now unfolding.
The American people, at a moment of enormous grief and anxiety, are being told they must accept the prospect of having their sons and daughters sent to distant parts to kill and be killed, to fight an enemy or enemies yet to be named, and at the same time acquiesce to the gutting of their democratic rights.
What they are not being told is that the American corporate and financial elite, in the name of a holy war against terrorism, intends to rain death and destruction on countless thousands of people in order to realize global aims it has long harbored. Can there be any doubt that this crusade for "peace" and "stability" will become the occasion for the US to tighten its grip over the oil and natural gas resources of the Middle East, the Persian Gulf and the Caspian? Behind the pious and patriotic declarations of politicians and media commentators stand the long-cherished designs of American imperialism to dominate new parts of the world and establish global hegemony. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: GUEST Date: 05 Apr 02 - 01:01 PM And I would only add this to the above guest's sensible remarks: the criticisms of the US citizenry are wholly valid. We are a democracy, and our government does what we ourselves allow it to do in our name. You don't have to vote for Bush/Gore just because the conventional wisdom says that is the only "realistic" way to vote. You don't have to keep re-electing corrupt incumbents. You don't have to stay at home consuming, because it is easier than taking action in the public arena, regardless of your class background. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: Little Hawk Date: 05 Apr 02 - 04:00 PM 1st GUEST...well said. 2nd GUEST...yes, that is a valid point...to a point. It's hard for people to be aware of what's going on when their primary media and entertainment systems are busy keeping them misinformed and ignorant from cradle to grave. If any American had spent the week that I had in Cuba with 12 young Canadian students recently, for example, it would forever change his opinion of that society much for the better...but they do not legally have that opportunity, and they are not going to find out about it either. It's hard to say where the buck stops with this sort of thing. How much are the people to blame, and how much are they the inevitable victims of a social system that they don't see and which dominates their lives? If every major candidate of every major political party is merely a bagman for that system...then how can their vote ever change the system? It's an oligarchy which rules from the top down, and it rules by controlling every aspect of conscious life...through education, marketing, popular mythology, and media. How does one change that? I think this folly will only end when the system destroys itself through its own irrationality...or events completely beyond its control do the job first. Nature can destroy this system. A world which refuses, en masse, to bow any longer also can. - LH |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: GUEST,Truthtroller Date: 05 Apr 02 - 06:15 PM Bobert you said it all, and you are there and your still not doing anything about it. You know doubt ask yourself what can you do, but deep inside your hearts you all know the answers, but it takes work and effort to make a change. There's no point in tellilng the world how hard you find life.. that's not the way the ad men sell America to us. Let's face it the last couple of years have seen most kids wearing their caps on back to front and giving high fives cos that's how they see the 'States'. It's a fun place with Disneylsnd. Little Hawk don't give me all that abc stuff. Who put {c}there in the first place. No sorry guys YOU have got to make the changes except meanwhile YOU have got to send the kids out to get McDonalds cos Cops is on or the ballgame or Ricki Lake or Oprah,{hey you kids mind out the way I can't see the screen} or Jerry Springer,True Hollywood stories {man these burgers are good and I'lm geeting so fat on this couch}..... [but Dad out teacher says that there's a totalitarian government who runs this planet via the airwaves partitiioning out information is such a way that we, the masses are forced to base our conclusions on eronious....] ........... {son can't you see I'm watching THE GAME!!! T.T. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: Celtic Soul Date: 05 Apr 02 - 06:32 PM FREAKIN' TACO BELL!!!!!!!1 They got rid of the *only* fast food I LIKE! The Santa Fe Gordita...those BASTIDS!!! Eloquent, aint I? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: GUEST,Igwig Date: 05 Apr 02 - 07:01 PM And who will bloody well free the iguanas!!! Answer me that! Igwig |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: Bobert Date: 05 Apr 02 - 07:33 PM Yo, T.T., my 16 year old son listens to old LP's, ain't into fast food and has been taught to question just about everything. He also understands the importance of the Green Party, just as his old man understands that the Green Party, while not perfect, addresses real issues about unchecked globalization, imperialism and greed by the ruling class. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: GUEST,Truthtroller Date: 05 Apr 02 - 07:57 PM Bobert. Good on you man, and your boy. That's two down and five billion to go, but hey it's a start, it's a start. T.T. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: GUEST Date: 06 Apr 02 - 04:11 AM I might be stating the obvious, but to those who apologise for not being able to 'do anything about it' as I'm only part of the working classes and 'we do as we are told' because 'they really rule O.K.'. C'mon get real! WE CAN change what's happening if we choose, but we don't, we talk a good talk, but, don't walk the walk' (hey! is that another American'ism) Think France - Russia - Cuba- India - etc. etc. then think AMERICA v's Britain..yeah it's been done before YOU just forgot the reasons why!! When I think and talk about America, I never assume 'blame America' for all the ill's because that's what it's there for, an excuse! Europe created it to gain wealth (which historically has always come with a heavy price to pay) without doing too many dirty deeds on it's own doorstep. So in short it's up to ALL of us across the pond to set things right, as you obviously lurve those burgers and can't get of your Fat arses to do anything for your future generations. As usual 'last in - first out! Joe
|
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: Little Hawk Date: 06 Apr 02 - 12:25 PM That's true, Joe. Well said. The public is way more powerful than they think, and the System's greatest fear is that they will wake up and use that power one of these days. The System, in fact, exists at the mercy of the public, not the other way around. The British Empire discovered that in 1776, didn't they? - LH |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: GUEST Date: 07 Apr 02 - 06:37 AM WHY would you go to Cuba! U.S. allies in the Western Hemisphere, including Mexico and Canada, must stop coddling Castro and start calling for real changes. There is no reason we cannot exert diplomatic pressure to get similar resolutions regarding Cuba through. The Administration should strive to convince the international community not to do business with Cuba until the jails are emptied of all political prisoners, until Castro's repressive security forces are disbanded, all illegally confiscated properties and assets are returned to their rightful owners or appropriate compensation is paid, the constitution and laws of Cuba are reformed to legalize free enterprise and private ownership of property, free-market policies are adopted, and democratic elections are held in a pluralist political context which allows the Cuban people to elect the leaders they choose. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: GUEST Date: 07 Apr 02 - 07:51 AM Guest Look to yourself first! USA etc.. what about their political prisoners, what about their democratic ways (remember Florida! and every election where Black people and others, have been unable to vote?)what about their interference in other countries politics to undermine them for the sake of their business. Mexico allies! I don't think so..a heal on the boot of the USA I think! free market policies, just where have you been hiding yourself all these years Guest? Free market policies are like baseball and your football YOU MAKE THE RULES UP AS YOU GO ALONG... anyway..I love You All...........Joe |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: GUEST Date: 07 Apr 02 - 10:48 AM The Jews are pillaging Palestine, and the world is looking away. A few feeble-minded declarations and toothless resolutions notwithstanding, no one with the capability to say or do anything of substance seems to care. The people in the streets are loudly voicing their concern, but the silence in the halls of power is deafening. With a few exceptions, the Muslim regimes and media are looking to the West for assistance, for recognition of the plight of Palestine. Many are wondering why it is that the civilized Western world, with its much-vaunted love of peace and justice, is looking the other way. Why is it that "the world's only superpower" seems powerless to act? The problem is that these are all myths. The Western world loves neither peace nor justice, and it has a peculiar brand of civilization that has normalized its own crimes. For the West to condemn Israel the West must condemn itself, since Israel is the West, in somewhat concentrated form, but just as murderous, racist and virulent. Israel is too close to the standard Western colonial model of invasion, occupation and subjugation for the Western world to take any sort of action. Individuals may do otherwise, but political and economic powers are indifferent. Americans claim to lead the world today; that they are the "world's only superpower." America has also been the staunchest supporter of Israel since its inception in the mid-20th century. A quick look at America's history explains its complicity. European settlers with a Biblical ideology, amazingly close to present-day Zionism, invaded the Americas and destroyed the indigenous civilizations that had prospered there for centuries or millennia. New Americans paid no attention to the rights of local people, who were wantonly slaughtered and driven from their lands, or who died en masse of the diseases brought from Europe to the Northern American continent by the Europeans. But that is only one crime of the new Americans. Beside being built on the graves of millions of Native peoples in the eastern and central part of the continent, America was built on the backs of millions of Africans, kidnapped and worked to death in the new world to build and benefit the white man's paradise. This dual crime of genocide and enslavement was soon supplemented by a third, the systematic depopulation of what was once greater Mexico, the area now known as the southwestern United States, of its original inhabitants. The American colonial machine soon occupied all of what is now called the United States, and legalised and normalized the fruits of its crimes. Similar crimes were also committed elsewhere. The Spanish and Portuguese laid waste Central and South America and parts of Africa, in the name of a racist brand of Christianity fueled by the Church and a Crusader mentality. The French, Dutch, Belgians and Italians in particular invaded and occupied large areas of Africa and Southeast Asia, initiating colonial wars that took the lives of millions, all in the name of modern Western civilization. The British colonized half the planet, perfecting the practice of indirect rule, which, in combination with the usual slaughter and pillage, proved a lasting method of global subjugation that in many ways survives today. The formerly colonised regimes of the 'third world' are also largely silent about the crimes of the Jews in Palestine. This is because America and Europe have bribed and intimidated these regimes into silence. Economic sanctions, or their opposite in the form of subsidies, keep some of them from speaking, in a bizarre protection-racket funded by the IMF, the World Bank and other transnational economic organisations. The few states that speak out in favor of the Palestinian cause, such as South Africa and Lebanon, have been or will soon be attacked, either militarily or economically; others have been targeted in America's newest "war on terror." The Western world is living on the profits of its crimes, which are laid bare for all to see today by the Jews and their atrocious brutality in Palestine. The tortures, executions, internments and terrorism being perpetrated by the Jews today are no more than what America, Britain, France and other Western powers have done in their own past. Now they are "civilized" (ie. sophisticated, suave, and expert at blurring and confusing long-agreed and long-accepted human and ethical consensuses), and engage in polite and subtle conversations about peace and justice, but none of this would be possible without the crimes upon which Western civilization has been built. Where is the court to prosecute the perpetrators and perpetuators of this sordid legacy? There is no such court, because the entire modern legal system was effectively set up by these same criminals, so the judges, juries and executioners are all criminals too,or at least benefit from those crimes. One difference in the Jewish version of the Western colonial model is that its brutality is broadcast on television via various satellite networks. The US has tried hard to shut down these networks, but many still operate and even the Western media, hopelessly biased, are forced to show some of the reality to maintain their faltering 'objectivity'. But the blood and brutality on today's television screens are shadows of the centuries of atrocities committed by the Western powers in their own formative stages. Such images are not an aberration; they are the norm in a centuries-long colonial drive. It is foolish to expect anything else from the so-called civilized world today, which is being forced to look into an ugly mirror of its own terror, to gaze hatefully upon itself, and upon what it has wrought on the world. Israel is a lesson in colonial desperation. The former colonial powers cannot be called upon for guidance until they are willing to face their own legacies. Until then they will act like America, walking out of international forums such as the United Nations conference on racism in South Africa, proving their arrogance to the world by not facing up to their actions, preferring to continue to live on the profits of their crimes. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: GUEST,with long hair smoking funny tobbacco Date: 07 Apr 02 - 03:48 PM wow |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: GUEST Date: 08 Apr 02 - 06:56 AM Imagine the following scenario: after ages of discrimination, the United States decides to compensate African-Americans generously and to solve their problems once and for all. All African-Americans are locked up in prison, and the prisons are declared to be an independent African-American state. Sound crazy? That is just what the US and Israel are now planning for the Palestinians. Having sold the Palestinians empty illusions for years, if the US now wants to regain its credibility among Palestinians – and Arabs, and Moslems – it will have to put the horse before the cart, not behind it. First get Israel out of the occupied territories. A Palestinian state may follow, but not precede the end of Israel's occupation. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: GUEST,native Date: 08 Apr 02 - 07:40 AM Can anyone tell me what the States are getting out of Isreal for the $3,ooo,ooo,ooo,that they give them. Surely the money would be better spent in the States on poverty and medicare. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: GUEST Date: 08 Apr 02 - 08:41 AM Potential military bases for a war against the Arabs when they refuse to toe the US line anymore. Its all about empire, Guest, native. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: GUEST Date: 08 Apr 02 - 01:44 PM It does sound crazy. The compensation should come from Africa - From the descendants of those who sold them into slavery. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: Little Hawk Date: 08 Apr 02 - 04:47 PM Why would I go to Cuba? Because it is a beautiful place, and a society that has done far more for the common person in the street than almost any other society in Latin America. I met some of the brightest, most highly motivated people there that I have ever met in my life. I was struck by their sense of equality, their absolute lack of racism, their sense of brotherhood, their patriotism, the deep convictions of their religious beliefs, their mental and physical health and good spirits, their excellent education. If the USA had not chosen to isolate them and set out to cripple their economy for the last 40 years, they would be far better off materially. As it is, they are desperately short of money, and also short of many goods, but they are not short of what it takes to make a good and courageous life. The land you mention that was "stolen" was taken from rich families and big American companies and was given to the peasants who had worked it for generations...with almost no pay, no medical care, no educational facilities, and little or no hope of ever getting them...until Castro's revolution succeeded. You are troubled by their lack of "political freedom"? Ha! You should have seen what it was like under Batista. Read a few history books about Cuba. Batista was as corrupt and brutal as a dictator can be...and the USA supported him. Why? Because he played ball with American interests. What did they care if his soldiers and police terrorized, murdered, and raped people on a regular basis? Business was good! The sugar companies were raking in cash from their virtual slave labour in the fields, and the whorehouses and casinos were making record profits. The Mafia loved the place....prostitutes and casinos everywhere, plus beautiful beaches...what could appeal more to the criminal mind? That was before Castro. He threw them out. For that he has been embargoed, not for having political prisoners. Every dictator in the world who is a client of the USA has lots of political prisoners, and you don't hear a peep about it from Washington. I would support Cuba, based on what I have seen with my own eyes, as enthusiastically as I would support any society anywhere in the world that has thrown off rich foreign colonial oppressors and achieved true independence, and then freed and educated millions of people who were nothing more than serfs under the pre-revolutionary system. America talks about "freedom", but does not export it or encourage it in the world. Amercan exports economic rape and oppression. This is not what ordinary American people want or intend...but it is what their government is in fact doing...and not telling them about. - LH |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: Joe in the'pool Date: 09 Apr 02 - 07:31 AM Little Hawk, Well said, Cuba is a place my partner and myself wish to go, in the next 12months or. The absolute courage they show to the biggest 'school-yard bullies' is there for all to see, (and hear!) If anybody has any information on 'places to stay' ie. with the people themselves, so our monies are spent at a grass-roots level, please post.. many thanks Joe. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: GUEST,Truthtroller Date: 09 Apr 02 - 09:33 AM Oh! So now you're leaving. T.T. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: GUEST,joe in the 'pool Date: 09 Apr 02 - 06:45 PM 'You talking to me!" Yeh, First time we could ever afford, a slow boat to China! and then to be dropped off in Cuba on the back, and yes.to take a drive in one off those 'gas guzzlers' the Yanks etc. left behind when they run away!!! ...god I lur've capitalism!! 'onest I really do! Joe |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: Little Hawk Date: 09 Apr 02 - 09:41 PM I like either capitalism or socialism when there are decent, responsible people at the top, and laws that protect the rights of common people and of nature. It's a long hard road to freedom. - LH |
|
Subject: RE: BS: United States BASHING Available HERE!!!! From: GUEST Date: 10 Apr 02 - 07:48 PM Ah the little hawk ascribes to the old philosophy of a "benevolent dictator." |