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absolution

GUEST 08 Apr 01 - 01:05 AM
Sorcha 08 Apr 01 - 01:24 AM
thosp 08 Apr 01 - 01:45 AM
Sorcha 08 Apr 01 - 01:49 AM
thosp 08 Apr 01 - 02:00 AM
Sorcha 08 Apr 01 - 02:05 AM
Rick Fielding 08 Apr 01 - 02:12 AM
wysiwyg 08 Apr 01 - 11:27 AM
Big Mick 08 Apr 01 - 12:56 PM
Rick Fielding 08 Apr 01 - 02:18 PM
Amergin 08 Apr 01 - 03:48 PM
GUEST,Firecat in Berlin 08 Apr 01 - 04:18 PM
Bill D 08 Apr 01 - 07:12 PM
Little Hawk 08 Apr 01 - 07:57 PM
Dicho (Frank Staplin) 08 Apr 01 - 08:03 PM
Bill D 08 Apr 01 - 11:11 PM
Little Hawk 08 Apr 01 - 11:15 PM
thosp 08 Apr 01 - 11:17 PM
Joe Offer 09 Apr 01 - 02:31 AM
Grab 09 Apr 01 - 09:14 AM
Jande 09 Apr 01 - 09:54 AM
Linda Kelly 09 Apr 01 - 09:59 AM
GUEST,tiggerdooley@work 09 Apr 01 - 11:09 AM
Joe Offer 09 Apr 01 - 01:40 PM
mousethief 09 Apr 01 - 01:58 PM
Little Hawk 09 Apr 01 - 03:18 PM
thosp 09 Apr 01 - 06:10 PM
Bill D 09 Apr 01 - 06:34 PM
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Subject: absolution
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Apr 01 - 01:05 AM

What does it mean


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Subject: RE: absolution
From: Sorcha
Date: 08 Apr 01 - 01:24 AM

"You are forgiven all your sins, go forth and sin no more....."


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Subject: RE: absolution
From: thosp
Date: 08 Apr 01 - 01:45 AM

does it work? --- ;) (hi sorcha!)

peace (Y) thosp


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Subject: RE: absolution
From: Sorcha
Date: 08 Apr 01 - 01:49 AM

Probably not. (hi thosp, where ya been? How's the quilt?)


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Subject: RE: absolution
From: thosp
Date: 08 Apr 01 - 02:00 AM

i've been here -- just getting in late and tired - so i've been reading -but not posting very much (pretty much not at all) the quilts fine - i can't get on the computer without looking at it (it hangs over it) -- so far it hasn't made it to any Mudcat gatherings (but who knows what the future brings) -----sorry to hear about the low probability of the absolution - do you suppose it could be geographically sensitive --- i guess joe offer should weigh in on this one ----

peace (Y) thosp


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Subject: RE: absolution
From: Sorcha
Date: 08 Apr 01 - 02:05 AM

Yes, need JoeBro on this one. I'm going to bed now, stick around, I've missed you. But, te absolvo, for what it's worth, LOL! Nite now.


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Subject: RE: absolution
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 08 Apr 01 - 02:12 AM

I grant absolution to all those who don't play their F chord properly!

OK, now that's over...let's start again. Put your index finger........

Rick


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Subject: RE: absolution
From: wysiwyg
Date: 08 Apr 01 - 11:27 AM

You can probably only get a hundred or so answers and arguments out of this question here. For a wider effect, ask over at www.beliefnet.com, where you can get the responses of Christians of all stripes, Wiccans, Pagans, Jews, Theosophists, Atheists, Scientologists....

~Susan


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Subject: RE: absolution
From: Big Mick
Date: 08 Apr 01 - 12:56 PM

I grant absolution for those that rise to the bait put out by flamers. Your hearts are good, your intentions are good.........even if you do commit the sin of encouragement for this behaviour. I have met the enemy, (S)he is us............**grin**

And Rick, what is the right way to make the F chord properly?????

Mick


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Subject: RE: absolution
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 08 Apr 01 - 02:18 PM

Any damn way you want to Mick. I just absolved MYSELF from the resposibility of worrying about it.

Hey, I kind of like this "self-absolution". I wonder if it works for "abuse"?

Rick


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Subject: RE: absolution
From: Amergin
Date: 08 Apr 01 - 03:48 PM

are you saying you like self abuse, as well?


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Subject: RE: absolution
From: GUEST,Firecat in Berlin
Date: 08 Apr 01 - 04:18 PM

I thought it was where you submerged yourself in water!! Or is that ABLUTION?? I don't know!


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Subject: RE: absolution
From: Bill D
Date: 08 Apr 01 - 07:12 PM

ab-so-lutely (wonder if there's a connection?)


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Subject: RE: absolution
From: Little Hawk
Date: 08 Apr 01 - 07:57 PM

I grant absolution to all those who fail to understand that Bob Dylan can SING...

- LH


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Subject: RE: absolution
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 08 Apr 01 - 08:03 PM

Somebody just said why don't I go fax myself


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Subject: RE: absolution
From: Bill D
Date: 08 Apr 01 - 11:11 PM

hmmm...does that absolution go to me? I fail to understand Bob D's singing....(it makes me think of Vaughn Monroe on dope after 2 nights without sleep)

;.)


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Subject: RE: absolution
From: Little Hawk
Date: 08 Apr 01 - 11:15 PM

Just do what I do, Bill. Plead insanity. :-)

Yes, you're absolved.


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Subject: RE: absolution
From: thosp
Date: 08 Apr 01 - 11:17 PM

i grant absolution to bob dylan for his singing voice ;)

peace (Y) thosp


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Subject: RE: absolution & reconciliation
From: Joe Offer
Date: 09 Apr 01 - 02:31 AM

Well, I just taught a class on it, so I suppose I could say something. I suppose it's one of the most misunderstood concepts of Roman Catholic theology - even most Catholics don't seem to understand it.

If we believe in a loving God, I think forgiving goes right alongside that love. Sorry, but I can't believe in a vengeful God. "Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God" is good reading, but that's not the kind of God I've experienced. Vengance seems to come from people, not God.

So, if my understanding of God is valid, God forgives us for whatever we do, and will continue to love us. The granting of forgiveness is only part of the process, however. The wrongdoer has to admit or "confess" to it - taking responsibility for it. Then, something has to be done to attempt to correct the wrongdoing or to reconcile with the person who was harmed. After that, the wrongdoer has to figure out a way to avoid doing the same thing again. Forgiveness is meaningless unless we acknowledge responsibility for what we've done and resolve to try not to do it again.

That's basically what happens in the Roman Catholic Sacrament of Reconciliation (formerly "Penance" or "Confession"). "Absolution" is a blessing the priest says that acknowledges that the process has been completed, and reminds the person of God's love and forgiveness. "Absolution" is a powerful expression of God's forgiveness - but the forgiveness comes from God, not the priest.

If it's done honestly, I think the Sacrament of Reconciliation has some sound psychological and moral benefits. It requires people to take responsibility for what they do, but it also lifts the burden of guilt that can paralyze them in despair. It also requires people to make a resolution to do better. The formal process also forces people to make a committment by saying out loud what they've done and what they intend to do about it.

OK, class, there will be a test on Friday. Note that this Friday is Good Friday and Friday the Thirteenth. I advise you not to cheat.

-Fr. JoeBro-


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Subject: RE: absolution
From: Grab
Date: 09 Apr 01 - 09:14 AM

To me, Absolution means a damn fine beer produced by the Abbeydale brewery. And then you may need to seek absolution for what you did under the influence of Absolution...

"Aren't you going to grant me absolution?"
"Oh yes, you're absolutely absoluted..."
(Nuns on the Run)

Graham.


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Subject: RE: absolution
From: Jande
Date: 09 Apr 01 - 09:54 AM

Absolution takes away the guilt, but not the responsibility.

Truth-telling leads to remorse, the need of all parties to rebuild trust through penance(even if it appears that the only one hurt is oneself -one needs to rebuild self-trust)Reconcilliation is a process.

Absolution by a priest (or whatever)is usually unnecessary, since it implies that there is something outside ourselves that can give or withhold this, when (IMHO) there is not. It is in our own nature to behave in ways that are not always good for us or those around us. It is also in our nature to want to be comfortable with ourselves and those around us.

Often the permission we seek to forgive ourselves is within us, not "out there" separate from us. Absolution just "is". It isn't "given" or "received", it just "is".

I'm not sure I'm saying this very well, I've never tried to put it into words before..

Anybody read the Bro. Cadfael series?

~ Jande


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Subject: RE: absolution
From: Linda Kelly
Date: 09 Apr 01 - 09:59 AM

its a solution you put on your Abs when they're throbbing.


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Subject: RE: absolution
From: GUEST,tiggerdooley@work
Date: 09 Apr 01 - 11:09 AM

Are you sorry? You are? OK, your slate's clean. Go and commit sin with a clear conscience!

Our priest was quite cool about absoloution when I was a kid. He hardly ever held confession. He'd just give general absolution every Holy Day, or every few months, or something like that. This was basically a drive-thru confession where the whole congregation woul sit and think about their sins, and then Father Right-On would say words to the effect of '..and if you're relly sorry, then He forgives you.'


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Subject: RE: absolution
From: Joe Offer
Date: 09 Apr 01 - 01:40 PM

I think you're right in saying that absolution is unnecessary, Jande - but it certainly can be powerfully reassuring. I suppose some people get their reassurance from reading the bumper stickers that say "Christians aren't perfect - they're just FORGIVEN." Well, in my book God loves and forgives everybody, not just Christians or people who go through specified rituals. One way or another, though, I think we all need to go through processes of reconciliation on many occasions in life.

As has been expressed here, there are some dangerous misconceptions that tend to get attached to the idea of absolution. Some people get the false impression that the priest dispenses God's forgiveness, and controls whether God forgives or does not forgive. Others seem to think that all Catholics have to do is go through the motions, and then they're free to go out and do the same thing again - and as long as they're clean when they die, that's all that counts. If you perform a ritual and have not commitment to its essential meaning, that ritual is empty and meaningless. If you finish my class and still have those misconceptions, you get an "F."
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: absolution
From: mousethief
Date: 09 Apr 01 - 01:58 PM

You get absolution when you're absolved, right? So if I am disillusioned, does that mean I've been dissolved?

Alex


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Subject: RE: absolution
From: Little Hawk
Date: 09 Apr 01 - 03:18 PM

Yes, it's abundantly clear that God forgives, and people (generally) don't. I do agree that for forgiveness to take effect, one has to acknowledge one's errors and then make a genuine effort to change, and not keep on repeating such errors. So, forgiveness does not mean..."you're forgiven, the slate is now clean, feel free to go out and sin again".

Unless you're an idiot, that is. Then maybe it does mean that to you. Even an idiot will wake up eventually, I expect. Of course, it make take a number of lifetimes...

- LH


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Subject: RE: absolution
From: thosp
Date: 09 Apr 01 - 06:10 PM

hey Joe O

what's a plenary indulgence? (do i have it right?)
jande
i didn't read the cadfael books,but i certainly enjoyed the pbs/tv series
lilHawk
isn't an idiot waking up sort of an oxymoron?

peace (Y) thosp


Thosp, a plenary indulgence is like a commutation of your sentence in Purgatory. You receive an indulgence for doing some sort of spiritual exercise or good work which atones for past wrongdoing. If you get a plenary indulgence, you get the punishment for all past misdeeds wiped off the slate.
Can't say I think too highly of the idea of purgatory or indulgences. They come from a quantitative measurement of the relationship between God and people, and I don't think in those categories. However, I do think that if you do good things, it makes you a better person. The idea of an indulgence gives some people something concrete to grab on, and maybe concrete can be good in this nebulous world.
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: absolution
From: Bill D
Date: 09 Apr 01 - 06:34 PM

it's easier to get forgiveness/absolution than permission!...Many have based their entire lives on this concept.


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