Never heard of Alex Campbell

Subject: RE: Never heard of Alex Campbell
From: GUEST,MikeOfNorthumbria (sans cookie)
Date: 11 Mar 15 - 02:32 PM

Big Al Whittle asked:

"I wondered at the time about the Laibman connection with Alex. does anyone know?"

And the answer is 'Yes'. So here's what I can remember about it - though as the events in question happened more than half a century ago, I can't swear to the accuracy of every detail.

Sometime in Nov-Dec of 1962 Alex came to sing at the Oxford University Heritage Society (the student folk club), of which he was an honorary member).   The booked artist for that evening was Jim Bassett, whose club in Harlow Alex was due to play the following night. As Alex was not working, he came along with Jim, sang a few songs, and brought the house down as usual.

Among the floor-singers that night was Dave Laibman, a very talented young American over here for just one year on some sort of student exchange. At the after-hours session, Dave and Alex astonished the rest of us with some improvised duets. Later, Alex invited Dave to guest on his forthcoming record ('Way out West'.)

Dave delivered a beautiful guitar accompaniment for Alex's recording of 'Railroad Bill', and played a storming solo on 'Orange Blossom Special'. Several other guests also appeared on 'Way out West', including Gerry Loockran (at the time he still spelt his surname 'Loughran') who contributed some excellent blues guitar.

Alex was a great performer, who deserves to be better remembered. Not least among his many contributions to the folk scene was the advice, encouragement and (free) publicity which he gave so many younger performers.

Wassail!

Subject: RE: Never heard of Alex Campbell
From: GUEST,Gust, Brian
Date: 11 Mar 15 - 02:33 PM

OK
LOne last go.

Carroll, Smith - Shut the @++! up! This thread was never about either of you, nor your opinionsn and especially now Ewan Mac bloody Coll. Start a new thread about St Ewan OR SHUT THE ??** UP. We do not need to be told what to think, not by you, Vic, not by you, Jim. What you think is your business, not ours. Go away and sort it out, but not here. Don't even try to ignore me again - I'm not going away. Stay on thread. Joe has yet to respond.

Subject: RE: Never heard of Alex Campbell
From: oggie
Date: 11 Mar 15 - 05:23 PM

Dick Gaughan's take on Alex -
http://www.dickgaughan.co.uk/chain/alex-campbell.html

Subject: RE: Never heard of Alex Campbell
From: GUEST,Gueat Betsy
Date: 11 Mar 15 - 06:24 PM

I would just like to say in addition to my piece earlier about Alex that I'm horrified about the way Jez Lowe has been villified in this thread. Some of us had hoped that we were dealing with a Living Tradition and songs would emerge andevolve as indeed McColl was song cWRITER .
Apologies for possible thread creep - but on this thread Jex Lowe has been castigated and unfairly labelled a Cabaret singer which is an absolute disgrace to say the least. Thanks to Dick for standing up for this very decent man, who not only performs briliantly whether solo, or with the Bad Pennies and has injected many wonderful songs into the British Folk scene - as have many others.
Mind you - If you're looking for a good Cabaret song - try "The very first time I saw your face " . It must be great money-earner for Jimmy - sorry - Ewan.

Let's talk about Alex here ...........Eh ?

Cheers Betsy

Subject: RE: Never heard of Alex Campbell
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 11 Mar 15 - 06:43 PM

Thanks for the link, Oggie, a great tribute to the man this thread is supposed to be about.

And to Betsy: thanks for the defence of Jez Lowe: entirely agree with you, There's more to the "monkey song" than meets the eye - local (and also Aberdeenshire) legend, which may not have been understood if you merely watched the video out of context: see:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monkey_hanger

So now I'm drifting off thread, but yes. let's talk about Alex!

Subject: RE: Never heard of Alex Campbell
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 11 Mar 15 - 07:46 PM

thanks very much MIke of Northumbria. that's something i've wondered about forever.

Subject: RE: Never heard of Alex Campbell
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Mar 15 - 04:10 AM

"Carroll, Smith - Shut the @++! up! "
First, for my prt in this, apologies.
It was never my intention to take part in this thread - I have said what I had to say about Alex elsewhere and had no intention repeating it here.
Dick Miles introduced MacColl to this thread, totally unnecessarily (08 Mar 15 - 05:38 AM), which I ignored
Al Whittle followed it up with a reference to my respect for MacColl shortly afterwards with a snideswipe both at MacColl and my respect for him " the ones Jim Carroll thinks were the bees knees singing real folk music and boring the arse of everyone"; also totally unnecessarily and rather unpleasantly, in my opinion, so I responded to that one.
Things went downhill from there.
I have become rather sickened by the constant targetting of an important artist, dead for a quarter of a century - it was unethical enough while he was alive, now it it simply morbid.
I'm also rather tired of the double standards of some contributors.
"I'm horrified about the way Jez Lowe has been villified in this thread"
I make no criticism of Jez Lowe, other than to comment on his style and say I believe it has little to do with folk style (I specified why) - as it happens, I'm quite fond of some cabaret singing - in it's place.
It seems that, to some people, it's quite acceptable to take a pop at some people, dead or alive (even to the extent of making their work undiscussable on this forum), and yet be "horrified" when comments on their particular flavour of the month are commented on.
So - apologies for my part in this - I trust they are forthcoming from the other culprits - of course it should not have happened.
My up is well and truely shut!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Never heard of Alex Campbell
From: GUEST,Gust, Brian
Date: 12 Mar 15 - 04:21 AM

Thank you, Jim. Apology accepted, several still owed.

Subject: RE: Never heard of Alex Campbell
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 12 Mar 15 - 05:32 AM

he is not constantly targetted. without your constant moaning, i doubt he would pop into heads quite so often. he is discussed, and as someone who took loads of people to Ewan's concerts - i can tell you they nearly all found him boring and refused a chance to see him again.

he was a presence, and a huge influence. we are not as sold on his influence as you are. a lot of us don't agree that folk song belongs to gypsies and isolated communities. we believe that English folksong belongs to all English speaking people. we have played music that makes people dance and sing. we don't think it - we know it! more gigs for more people in more places than you can imagine.

you and MacColl stayed with the gypsies and the folk clubslike Winnie the Pooh stayed in 100 Acre Wood. some of us went out in the world, where the folks live.

and YOU are not the person to decide whether Derek Brimstone or Jez Lowe play folk music. put simply - your knowledge is too resticted. you don't know enuff!

Subject: RE: Never heard of Alex Campbell
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 12 Mar 15 - 06:03 AM

a story that i heard alex tell bemused me.

he said, when he was a young guy he went with his friends to see Big Bill Broonzy. he and his friends were really impressed by Broonzy's ability to put away vast quantities of whisky, and they figured this is what you did if you were going to be a real folksinger.

it was only later, he realised that at the time, Big Bill was suffering and in pain with cancer. the whisky was a self medication. it dulled the pain, and also it was a way of getting some calories into his body - which could no longer take food, in effect fooling his body.

i wonder what other people make of that one. i suppose Ewan would know as apparently - Broonzy stopped with him.

Subject: RE: Never heard of Alex Campbell
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Mar 15 - 06:20 AM

Sorry you don't feel like apologising Al, and would rather continue our differences were we are not welcome
"Broonzy stopped with him."
At the risk of.... no he didn't - he came into a club where Ewan was singing in Brighton
Nuff sed, from me, at least!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Never heard of Alex Campbell
From: GUEST,MikeOfNorthumbria (sans cookie)
Date: 12 Mar 15 - 06:23 AM

Oggie, thanks for passing on the link to Dick Gaughan's excellent piece on Alex. I agree with it 100%, and would like to add a few more points.

On dealing with hecklers: for decades, Alex played most of his gigs in venues with no PA system, so he had to be able to read the audience and 'work the room'. Dealing with hecklers effectively was just one skill among many needed for this job, all of which he deployed in a masterly fashion.

On the drink question: yes, Alex sometimes appeared on stage the worse for drink - but there is a context to the story. So many people loved him, and so many of them wanted to show their affection by buying him a drink that it was quite difficult for him to stay sober even when he wanted to. Many other artists have fallen into this trap and been lost for ever. Alex did eventually fight his way out of it, though not before seriously damaging his health, and his reputation.

On encouraging and advising younger performers: Dick Gaughan is only one among many who can testify to Alex's generosity in this regard - the full list would include not only quality performers of Dick's stature, but also a large number of hopefuls with far more limited talents (myself among them) who benefited from his counselling.

As the Bard wrote "He was a man, take him for all in all: we shall not look upon his like again."

Wassail!

Subject: RE: Never heard of Alex Campbell
From: Dave Sutherland
Date: 12 Mar 15 - 07:19 AM

"Broonzy stopped with him."
Not wishing to take sides here but I'm sure that there is a passage in "Journeyman" which relates to Broonzy staying with him, presumably while he was married to Jean as he talks about Hamish setting up the recording equipment. Oh and the drink referred to in this instance is brandy...........can't check as I'm at work now but I will later.

Subject: RE: Never heard of Alex Campbell
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Mar 15 - 07:42 AM

"I'm sure that there is a passage in "Journeyman"
There is and he did, apologies
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Never heard of Alex Campbell
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 12 Mar 15 - 09:31 AM

you still don't get it. the reason i took people to see him, that i was and still am in total awe of him. he never bored me, i knew enough to get where he was coming from. we have no differences on that score
i can remember saying to Paul Downes - the thing about Ewan - he will talk to you
and Paul said, i don't get it - why wouldn't he talk to you.
but the people who came with me - they never came again to see him. they all told me he'd bored them


Wizz Jones (another cabaret singer no doubt|) told me about Broonzy stopping with Ewan. he met Ewan on a train, and Ewan recognised him - andn said, you ought to come round and see this bloke stopping at my place. he plays a lot like you...
they must have all been looking down the same spyglass at some point. Alex, Wizz, Ewan, Big Bill......
where did it all go wrong?

Subject: RE: Never heard of Alex Campbell
From: GUEST,Hootenanny
Date: 12 Mar 15 - 11:02 AM

That quote seems a bit "iffy" to me.
Bill Broonzy died in August 1958. I believe he last played England in 1957.
I was taking guitar lessons from Peggy Seeger in 1959 at the premises of the WFDY in Islngton. A fellow pupil was Wizz Jones. If Broonzy was playing a lot like Wizz when he was here I doubt whether Wizz would need to go to Peggy for lessons two years after Bill's last visit.

I'm not knocking Wizz but I don't remember him being that accomplished at the time. If he was I might have gone to him for lessons instead.

I don't think anything went wrong it's just like the song says "Time Changes Everything".

Subject: RE: Never heard of Alex Campbell
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 12 Mar 15 - 12:16 PM

bugger me! Wizz learned from Peggy - never knew that. i suppose that's why does he's so au fait with Ewan's songs.
there must have been more unity and friendship in those days.

Subject: RE: Never heard of Alex Campbell
From: breezy
Date: 12 Mar 15 - 06:49 PM

So pleased that Jim C has left the building and as a journeyman hath disappeared up his own passage. Or was it the pit he was digging himself into ?

I can hugely recommend Jez Lowe's latest album entitled 'The Ballad Beyond'

Quality songs based on true events which to my mind is the idea of 'folk songs'

Educational and enlightening.Entertaining too.

Facilitated for me by the performances of Alex Campbell who in his entertaining manner drove me further along the musical branch road that Peter Paul and Mary and Pete Seeger had directed me earlier.

And Jez Lowe continues to act as guide.

and has followed in the footsteps of previous radio ballad writers.

Well played Vic'

Subject: RE: Never heard of Alex Campbell
From: GUEST,Gueat Betsy
Date: 12 Mar 15 - 07:01 PM

Nice one Breezy.........

Subject: RE: Never heard of Alex Campbell
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 12 Mar 15 - 09:01 PM

Tony Savage who who ran the three barrels folk club at Ampersand used to tell this story about alex geeting pissed one night at the Paris Opera House where Tony was singing.

Apparently Alex and another party, also wearing cowboy boots had booked a box and were singing drunkenly along to the opera. Tony told me the other party was Woody Guthrie, American mudcatters assure me this was impossible and the other guy was probably Rambling Jack Elliot.

i wonder if any other people knew about this. i seem to remember Alex was quite poor. i wonder how he got round to booking a box. most people i know can't afford a seat at the opera. perhaps Paris is cheaper than Covent Garden.

Subject: RE: Never heard of Alex Campbell
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 13 Mar 15 - 12:30 AM

Drift: But thanks, Al. I have been going crazy trying to remember Tony Savage's name, & it wouldn't come, & lo & behold up you come with it. That's the serendipitous way things happen! I only actually met him once, but one time in about the 1970s he read something I had written in Folk Review & wrote to me to know if I would like some gigs round the Midlands; then without even waiting for an answer, appointed himself my sort of unpaid agent and arranged me 8 or 10 gigs -- Warwick Univ, Lutterworth FC, &c -- for a few months. Then they dried up & I never heard from him again. I had never even realised till now he was a singer himself; thought he was just a sort of self-appointed organiser & factotum. Hmm -- obviously something of a card.

≈M≈

Subject: RE: Never heard of Alex Campbell
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 13 Mar 15 - 02:32 AM

yeh he was the lead tenor at La Scala in Milan for many years. but he contracted TB. and he had to retire.

I remember some singer was going on to him about struggling with his voice and he said, call this a gig! try two and a half hours onstage at La Scala!

nice man!

Subject: RE: Never heard of Alex Campbell
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Mar 15 - 02:48 AM

" can hugely recommend Jez Lowe's latest album entitled 'The Ballad Beyond'"
Is this about Jez Low - I thought it was about Ian Campbell?
Another case of double standards, I think!
Your fanzine is something else
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Never heard of Alex Campbell
From: The Sandman
Date: 13 Mar 15 - 04:08 AM

I have made it clear that i have no intention of being violent towards Jim Carroll, yet he persists with this codswallop.
this thread is about Alex Campbell, not Ian Campbell or Bonnie George Campbell or about the man that started Campbell soup factory.
Jim, a number of people are trying to tell you something politely.

Subject: RE: Never heard of Alex Campbell
From: GUEST,Hootenanny
Date: 13 Mar 15 - 05:30 AM

The guy in the box with Alex at the opera could have been Jack Elliot, it was definitely not Woody. It could have been Derroll Adams who had taken up residence in Europe. It is even possible that it was Jack's brother Dave. He lived in Paris and was in the film industry. Dave Elliott showed up at the Ballads and Blues one night when we were in Carlisle Street and Alex was booked. Someone placed a stetson on Dave's head and he looked like Jack's twin.

Al, You are right Alex wasn't a wealthy man but he used to do very well from busking in Paris according to one banjo picker that worked with him there and it is very likely that he was there as a guest of someone involved with the theatre.

Subject: RE: Never heard of Alex Campbell
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Mar 15 - 06:05 AM

"his thread is about Alex Campbell, "
Then you shouldn't have brought MacColl into it in the first place - about as politely as I can manage with you Dick
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Never heard of Alex Campbell
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Mar 15 - 06:19 AM

A polite reminder to whoever it may concern
I have apologised for my part in blowing this thread off course - others involved have yet to do so, in fact, the individual who is responsible for starting the drift is now trying to give the impresion that it's "nuffin' to do wiv me guv"
How about it lads - it really isn't difficult if you grit your teeth and think of England!!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Never heard of Alex Campbell
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 13 Mar 15 - 07:08 AM

allright. everybody's f...ing sorry. particularly me. i'm sorrier than everyone else combined.
my tears would fill a river.
i am moved to poetry

it's all right for some
they don't give a shite
but poor old me
i'm really contrite!

now then, back to Maverick!

I seem to remember Alex played something like a Gibson j2oo. can anyone confirm? know any of the paticulars of his axe.

Subject: RE: Never heard of Alex Campbell
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 13 Mar 15 - 07:10 AM

if that apology does not suffice, i will bite my leg off and post it to you!

Subject: RE: Never heard of Alex Campbell
From: The Sandman
Date: 13 Mar 15 - 01:29 PM

quote
Subject: RE: Never heard of Alex Campbell
From: Good Soldier Schweik - PM
Date: 08 Mar 15 - 05:38 AM

Alex Campbell was funnier than Ewan MacColl, but not such a good songwriter."
That hardly qualifies as starting a discussion on MacColl.

Subject: RE: Never heard of Alex Campbell
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 13 Mar 15 - 02:55 PM

you are sorry though? obviously not as sorry as i am, but you are i hope gnashing your teeth and wailing with regrets at your sins, your most grievous sins.....

Subject: RE: Never heard of Alex Campbell
From: GUEST,Hootenanny
Date: 13 Mar 15 - 03:01 PM

Al,

One of the photographs I have of him shows a Gibson sunburst finish which I think is a J45. Another shows him with a Gibson plain top taken probably a year or so earlier. Also have one of him playing a mandolin and one of him busking in Paris with a banjo.

Are there no shots on his web site which would give you a clue?

Subject: RE: Never heard of Alex Campbell
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 13 Mar 15 - 03:21 PM

just going off my memories...

Subject: RE: Never heard of Alex Campbell
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Mar 15 - 03:44 PM

Al,

I googled Alex and got his son's web-site. There are photographs of Alex there where he is playing what appears to be a J200.

Subject: RE: Never heard of Alex Campbell
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 13 Mar 15 - 04:13 PM

has Alex got a website

Subject: RE: Never heard of Alex Campbell
From: Jim McLean
Date: 13 Mar 15 - 04:36 PM

Hers a picture taken by my wife, Alison Chapman McLean, in 1962/3 in the Troubadour and it may help identify his guitar. I can check on her other pictures if there is any interes.t.
http://www.richardandmimi.com/troubadour2.html

Subject: RE: Never heard of Alex Campbell
From: Jim McLean
Date: 13 Mar 15 - 04:40 PM

Alex Troubadour

Subject: RE: Never heard of Alex Campbell
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 13 Mar 15 - 04:49 PM

amazing photos - they all look so young!

Subject: RE: Never heard of Alex Campbell
From: breezy
Date: 13 Mar 15 - 04:56 PM

Hello Betsy, see it hasn't taken the hint.

Must have the hide of a rhino.

Alex was the first I heard sing Tom Paxton's 'Last thing on my mind' and it was in the upstairs folk club of the Star and Garter , Bromley.

Kent

Which brings me back to where I came in.

Subject: RE: Never heard of Alex Campbell
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 13 Mar 15 - 05:55 PM

i seem to remember Alex was on english tv in the sixties. a folksong programme on around teatime. is that right, or is my memory playing tricks on me.

its really strange. the more you you think - the nore you perceive Alex's importance.

somehow he made folksong attractive and entertaining and possible. its so easy to say - this is something not in the province of ordinary people who have lost their roots.

Subject: RE: Never heard of Alex Campbell
From: tritoneman
Date: 13 Mar 15 - 06:19 PM

I saw Alex quite a few times in the mid and late 1960s and he always played his beloved Gibson J200. I was a big fan of his - so much so that I was inspired to scrape the money together to buy a rather old J200 myself in 1969!   
Graham

Subject: RE: Never heard of Alex Campbell
From: GUEST,Guest Betsy
Date: 13 Mar 15 - 07:25 PM

Thanks Jim for those photos - nice to see one of Bob Davenport .
Also, I can almost hear myself singing (to Redd and Martin ) "I live in Trafagar Square with 4 Lions to guard me .........
Continue to keep a cool head Breezy - cheers mate.

Betsy

Subject: RE: Never heard of Alex Campbell
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 13 Mar 15 - 08:08 PM

i have a modern epiphone j200. very cheap - not my best guitar. but its a lovely guitar all the same.   £230 with electrics and inbuilt tuner. i love it and the headstock has the same design Alex's gibson had.

from the photos - theres only really Martin Carthy who still looks like a youngster.

Subject: RE: Never heard of Alex Campbell
From: Jim McLean
Date: 14 Mar 15 - 04:25 AM

There are two pages of photos but sometimes only one comes up from that link. If that is the case, go to the bottom the page where there is a link back to Dick Farino's home page and under "Further Viewing" go to Troubadour where the first page can be viewed and from there, the second.
I first met Alex in 1960, in London, when he asked me if I was Josh MacRae.

Subject: RE: Never heard of Alex Campbell
From: tritoneman
Date: 14 Mar 15 - 05:24 AM

Great photos of the Troubadour. It was all a long time ago but, yes, I can still hear Redd singing 'I live In Trafalgar Square' and Martin singing his quite magnificent version of Merle Travis' 'Loading Coal'..... and you never knew who would turn up to do a floor spot. Amazing evenings!

On the subject of Alex Campbell's guitar, I've tried one of those Epiphone J200's and I think they are good. Although I've still got my old 1957 Gibson j200 (that still gets played most days) If I was buying one now I think I'd opt for the Epiphone. Why pay more....??
Graham

Subject: RE: Never heard of Alex Campbell
From: The Sandman
Date: 14 Mar 15 - 02:02 PM

yes, i remember the Original folk club at the star and garter, never saw Alex there but did see him at Dartford 1974, He was really good that night.I believe Pete Twitchett did a floor spot and sang with her head tucked underneath her arm, can you confirm this twitch, old chap?

Subject: RE: Never heard of Alex Campbell
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 14 Mar 15 - 04:49 PM

sell the gibson and get twenty of the epiphones - you cold have ones in different tunings and with different gauge strings!

either that or you could have a couple of cruises.

Subject: RE: Never heard of Alex Campbell
From: tritoneman
Date: 14 Mar 15 - 05:07 PM

Yes, I think you've got a good point there Al. Forty or fifty years ago you usually had to pay a lot of money for a reasonable sounding, playable guitar but now a few hundred quid buys a Korean or Chinese built guitar that's both those things, has onboard electrics .....and looks good too!
Oh dear I think we've rather strayed from this thread. Back to Alex Campbell, the last time I saw him was in about 1972 at, I think, the Shakespeare's Head in Soho.   It seems he'd had his Gibson stolen or damaged and he was using another guitar. When he saw my guitar he just shook his head slowly saying 'It breaks my heart'. A very sad moment.

Graham

Subject: RE: Never heard of Alex Campbell
From: breezy
Date: 15 Mar 15 - 04:22 PM

so did you give it back to him then ? I guess no.
I'll give it a nose test and if it has a faint whiskey odour .......

Subject: RE: Never heard of Alex Campbell
From: tritoneman
Date: 15 Mar 15 - 06:18 PM

No. To my shame I just kept it .......and poured myself a gigantic whiskey!!
Graham