Lyrics & Knowledge Personal Pages Record Shop Auction Links Radio & Media Kids Membership Help
The Mudcat Cafemuddy

Post to this Thread - Sort Descending - Printer Friendly - Home


Help: The Emmetones, Josh MacRae? Enoch Kent/

Related threads:
Enoch Kent 80 today (10)
Lyr Add: Peas Brose (Enoch Kent) (4)
Lyr Req: Tales of a Favourite Lass (Enoch Kent) (4)
Happy! ? Dec 20 (Enoch Kent) (8)


Big Tim 10 Apr 01 - 07:35 AM
GUEST,Scabby Doug At work 10 Apr 01 - 09:56 AM
Jimmy C 10 Apr 01 - 10:13 AM
Big Tim 10 Apr 01 - 10:14 AM
Big Tim 10 Apr 01 - 10:32 AM
GUEST,Rana 10 Apr 01 - 10:57 AM
GUEST,Rana 10 Apr 01 - 11:18 AM
GUEST,Rana 10 Apr 01 - 11:22 AM
Big Tim 10 Apr 01 - 12:01 PM
GUEST,JohnB 10 Apr 01 - 12:38 PM
Ringer 10 Apr 01 - 01:19 PM
Big Tim 10 Apr 01 - 01:35 PM
GUEST,Rana 10 Apr 01 - 02:29 PM
GUEST,Ewan McVicar 11 Apr 01 - 02:18 AM
GUEST,Moleskin Joe 11 Apr 01 - 04:09 AM
Big Tim 11 Apr 01 - 04:26 AM
GUEST,Rana 11 Apr 01 - 09:39 AM
GUEST,Moleskin Joe 11 Apr 01 - 10:08 AM
GUEST,Rana 11 Apr 01 - 10:27 AM
GUEST,Dita (at work) 11 Apr 01 - 10:47 AM
Big Tim 11 Apr 01 - 12:12 PM
Dita 11 Apr 01 - 07:31 PM
Big Tim 12 Apr 01 - 03:47 AM
Big Tim 12 Apr 01 - 03:51 AM
GUEST,Gillian McAllister 05 May 11 - 03:31 PM
GUEST,cptsnapper 05 May 11 - 05:45 PM
Anne Neilson 06 May 11 - 03:39 AM
Jorrox 03 Feb 16 - 03:16 PM
GUEST,Graham mc Arthur 10 Sep 17 - 01:24 PM
Share Thread
more
Lyrics & Knowledge Search [Advanced]
DT  Forum
Sort (Forum) by:relevance date
DT Lyrics:



Subject: The Emmetones, Josh MacRae? Enoch Kent/
From: Big Tim
Date: 10 Apr 01 - 07:35 AM

In the early 60s I had some singles by a group called The Emmetones. From memory I think Josh MacCrae and Enoch Kent were members. They specialised, not surprsisingly with a name like that, in Irish rebel songs. Can anyone remember the group and the songs they recorded. I am particularly keen to get recordings of Bold Robert Emmet, The Bold Fenian Men (first line; "see who comes over the red blossomed heather" NOT "Down by the Glenside") and The Smashing of the Van (The Manchester Martyrs), this one I think sung solo by Enoch Kent. If any one can supply a tape please send me a PM, I will happily reimburse costs.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: The Emmetones, Josh MacRae? Enoch Kent/
From: GUEST,Scabby Doug At work
Date: 10 Apr 01 - 09:56 AM

Both of these guys were from, or associated with Glasgow. Ewan McVicar (excuse spelling) has written about each of them in "One Singer One Song". I'd guess that they did not specialise in Irish rebel songs but happened to sing a few...

They're before my time, but I'd guess late 50's into the 60's. I'll check my copy of the book and try topost more info if I can find it...

Cheers


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: The Emmetones, Josh MacRae? Enoch Kent/
From: Jimmy C
Date: 10 Apr 01 - 10:13 AM

I had at least one of their recordings. As far as I know Enoch Kent left Scotland and moved to Toronto Canada. I believe he may still be there. I have no idea what happened to the other members. The album I had was mostly Irish Rebel Songs and featured a picture of a man standing beside a burned out car, taken just after the 1916 fighting in Dublin ceased. I bought the album around 1960 but have lost all trace of it since. If anything else comes to mind I will post it here later.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: The Emmetones, Josh MacRae? Enoch Kent/
From: Big Tim
Date: 10 Apr 01 - 10:14 AM

Doug: it's OK I've got that book, Emmetones not mentioned. I think the rebel songs were extra for them, that earned a bit of money, hence the "flag of convenience" title, but they were very good.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: The Emmetones, Josh MacRae? Enoch Kent/
From: Big Tim
Date: 10 Apr 01 - 10:32 AM

God I was in Toronto recently, wish I'd known EK lived there. He's the sister of Janey Buchan, well known Scottish politician, and therefore, brother-in-law of Norman Buchan, folkster extraordinaire.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: The Emmetones, Josh MacRae? Enoch Kent/
From: GUEST,Rana
Date: 10 Apr 01 - 10:57 AM

Hi,

Enoch is alive and well and living in Toronto. He performs regularly at the Flying Cloud and always hosts the "Night Burns would have liked" We've tried to get him to record again. We might have some success this year as he has agreed to have a concert recorded - have to wait till December, however.

You can hear him over the net - he has done some radio ballads for the CBC which have been archived. I thought I'd bookmarked them but I haven't. I'll do some searching and see if I can locate them

Cheers Rana


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: The Emmetones, Josh MacRae? Enoch Kent/
From: GUEST,Rana
Date: 10 Apr 01 - 11:18 AM

Hi,

The CBC programme is called Outlook.

Feb 1, 1999 was a show on Pawnbrokers, while Oct. 26, 1999 had a show on auctions. Both shows are 15 min long and are archived so you can listen to them. Links to web pages below.

auctions

and

pawnbrokers

I hope more of you will listen to these - he is a talent that should be heard!

Cheers Rana


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: The Emmetones, Josh MacRae? Enoch Kent/
From: GUEST,Rana
Date: 10 Apr 01 - 11:22 AM

There is a third one, aired March 29, 2000 on working mothers. Link is:

working mothers

Rana


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: The Emmetones, Josh MacRae? Enoch Kent/
From: Big Tim
Date: 10 Apr 01 - 12:01 PM

Rana, thank so much, fantastic. Of course he's the brother, not sister(!), of Janey Buchan. She was instrumental, I believe, in setting up a Political Music Archive at Glasgow Caledonia University. Will check that in person tomorrow.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: The Emmetones, Josh MacRae? Enoch Kent/
From: GUEST,JohnB
Date: 10 Apr 01 - 12:38 PM

Yeah Enoch Kent is grrrreeaat. He has a voice like a bucket of fine gravel. Voices like his can only be achieved by many years of singing in smoky bars, whilst smoking 40 Woodbines a day when you are not singing. The lubrication of good old Single Malt just rounds off the corners. He sang many times up at Songs of Sail and the Penetanguishene Folk Festival that replaced it. JohnB


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: The Emmetones, Josh MacRae? Enoch Kent/
From: Ringer
Date: 10 Apr 01 - 01:19 PM

Didn't Enoch Kent used to sing in a group/band called The Exiles?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: The Emmetones, Josh MacRae? Enoch Kent/
From: Big Tim
Date: 10 Apr 01 - 01:35 PM

Yes, after he "exiled" himself from Scotland in London, with Bobby Campbell and Gordon McCulloch.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: The Emmetones, Josh MacRae? Enoch Kent/
From: GUEST,Rana
Date: 10 Apr 01 - 02:29 PM

Big Tim,

A true story you might enjoy - both Enoch and Tam have told this on separate occasions, it's about how Enoch returned to singing after moving to Toronto.

Tam Kearney (founder of Fiddlers Green folk club in Toronto and one the "Friends") and, I believe, Jim Strickland (gave Dick Gaughan his first paying gig for 2 pounds) were in a store in Toronto when they HEARD this gruff voice at the counter. Looking at each other they both said "That's Enoch Kent".

Tam, in his ever polite Glaswegian manner went up to the voice and said "You're Enoch Kent - you're playing at the Club this weekend".

(or words to such effect).

Rana


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: The Emmetones, Josh MacRae? Enoch Kent/
From: GUEST,Ewan McVicar
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 02:18 AM

Enoch got his gruff voice after he lost a very fine sweet clear one following some kind of damage to his vocal chords! He was not in the Emmettones. Hamish Imlach was, and told in detail about the group in his autobiography Cod Livel Oil and the Orange Juice which I co-wrote. The book is out of print, but now available electronically at my website http://members.jings.com/~traditional.
The band was a 'one day in the studio' event. The rest of the Emmettones were Josh McRae and Bobby Campbell, though Robin Williamson of the Incredible String Band did depp for Bobby on their one and only live gig.
The Emmettones only recorded six sides. Sounds like some solo tracks by Enoch were added to make up an LP.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: The Emmetones, Josh MacRae? Enoch Kent/
From: GUEST,Moleskin Joe
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 04:09 AM

Tim, if you want to gain access to the Political Song archive phone Caroline Cochrane on 331 8453. Rana, is Tam Kearney the same Tommy Kearney who used to help Drew Moyes run the folk club in Montrose Street in Glasgow in the sixties?

Good Luck, Ian M.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: The Emmetones, Josh MacRae? Enoch Kent/
From: Big Tim
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 04:26 AM

Welcome Ewan, and thanks - read the biog. of Hamish when it first came out, sadly didn't buy a copy at the time. Also thanks to MJ and Rana. I'd probably think that time was playing tricks on me re the EK single (c.1961 or 2) "The Smashing of the Van" but my brother backs me up. However lots of interesting info gained - thanks again to all.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: The Emmetones, Josh MacRae? Enoch Kent/
From: GUEST,Rana
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 09:39 AM

Ian M.

Just phoned Tam and indeed he is the same Tommy Kearney. He spoke with Drew on the phone last time he was over. Apparently he wondered who you were. Anyway he asked me to pass on his e-mail (I asked whether he minded it being put out in this medium - he's new to the internet and wouldn't mind hearing from back home) so here it is:

tamk@interlog.com

Regards Rana


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: The Emmetones, Josh MacRae? Enoch Kent/
From: GUEST,Moleskin Joe
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 10:08 AM

Rana, thanks very much for the information. I always wondered what had become of Tommy as he was then known. He wouldn't know me as I was just one of the customers though I hardly missed a Sunday for a couple of years. I used to be a teacher and one year in the eighties who should turn up in my class but Drew's son Simon. The world continues to get smaller and smaller. I'll probably email Tommy just to say hello. Has he been in Canada long?

GoodLuck,

Ian M.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: The Emmetones, Josh MacRae? Enoch Kent/
From: GUEST,Rana
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 10:27 AM

Ian M.

I think Tam would appreciate contact. He has been over here at least since the 70s (Fiddlers Green was started then). You'll find him singing on recordings by The Friends of Fiddlers' Green. It seems that they have now become the official opening gig at the Flying Cloud (which took over from the Fiddlers' Green in 1988). We have Tam as guest MC a few times, and he always appears with Enoch (this cleverly avoids the thread creep) on the "Night Burns would have liked".

Regards Rana


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: The Emmetones, Josh MacRae? Enoch Kent/
From: GUEST,Dita (at work)
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 10:47 AM

Big Tim, there is a Decca Ace of Clubs album from the early 60's called Irish Rebel Songs, with a picture as described by Jimmy C. Enoch Kent sings two songs on this, one of which is the "Smashing of the Van" - these tracks could be your single, compiled on this album.
The rest of the album is devided between two other singers whos names escape me. I can post more details when I get home, if you want further info.
love, john.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: The Emmetones, Josh MacRae? Enoch Kent/
From: Big Tim
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 12:12 PM

Yes Dita, please, very much.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: The Emmetones, Josh MacRae? Enoch Kent/
From: Dita
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 07:31 PM

Irish Rebel Songs Decca Ace of Clubs ACL 1136.
Diarmuid O'Neill, Patrick 0'Malley, Enoch Kent.
Cover - The remains of a car used as a barricade during the Easter Week rising in Ireland, May 1916.
Cover says c 1963, but record says 1961 ( could be a cut price rerelease of an earlier album, Ace of Clubs was an early budget label, however much of it's releases were original. Enoch sings only the first two tracks on side 2. The Manchester Martyrs (Kent) and Sean South of Garryowen (Costello)
O'Neill has 6 tracks and O'Malley 4, so it could be a collection of singles from 61 released in album form in 63?.
Hope tis helps Big Tim.
love, john.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: The Emmetones, Josh MacRae? Enoch Kent/
From: Big Tim
Date: 12 Apr 01 - 03:47 AM

Thanks John. Very interesting to see "Sean South" actually creditied to someone, nowadays it never is and this must have cost the writer of the lyrics, the melody is trad e.g. Roddy McCorley, a small, or even large fortune. The writer was Sean Costello and the song first appeared in "The Irish Catholic" 10th January 1957 just 10 days after SS and Feargal O'Hanlon were killed at Brookeborough. Sean South was born on 8th February 1928 in Henry Street in the City centre area of Limerick, not actually the Garryowen area, so a smidgei=on of poetic licence there. It's would be difficult to imagine a Scottish folk musician singing rebel songs today.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: The Emmetones, Josh MacRae? Enoch Kent/
From: Big Tim
Date: 12 Apr 01 - 03:51 AM

Just noticed that the old record credits "Van" to EK. Of course this is an old song, don't know its full history but was published by Colm O'Lochlainn in 1939.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: The Emmetones, Josh MacRae? Enoch Kent/
From: GUEST,Gillian McAllister
Date: 05 May 11 - 03:31 PM

I have just came across this, I a have the L.P. Irish Rebel Songs by Ace of Clubs which has "The Smashing of the Van/ The Manchester Marytrs sung by Enoch Kent


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: The Emmetones, Josh MacRae? Enoch Kent/
From: GUEST,cptsnapper
Date: 05 May 11 - 05:45 PM

Enoch & Josh used to be in a group called The Rievers with Rena Swankie


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: The Emmetones, Josh MacRae? Enoch Kent/
From: Anne Neilson
Date: 06 May 11 - 03:39 AM

Enoch is still recording in Toronto (on Borealis Records) and has a site at www.enochkent.ca


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: The Emmetones, Josh MacRae? Enoch Kent/
From: Jorrox
Date: 03 Feb 16 - 03:16 PM

I'd love to hear The Emmettones records too but they don't seem to be available anywhere. Even the labels that deal in Out Of Copyright stuff don't have these tracks.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: The Emmetones, Josh MacRae? Enoch Kent/
From: GUEST,Graham mc Arthur
Date: 10 Sep 17 - 01:24 PM

I was with the Emmetones when they recorded Robert Emmet Finian Men etc,
The record was managed by a guy called Stanton (from memory) who had a record shop near Barrowland in Glasgow.
He had a niche market producing records either for sale to the Orange
lodges or Irish extreme interests ( A foot in each camp!!)
Josh Mc Crae was the contact for the Emmetones / Hamish Imlach, on Guitar, Bobby Campbell fiddle , Josh MC Crae singer.
I drove them down to London and they were paid with a hundred pound note , the old fashioned hand written type ..Hmmish managed to get it changed in the Hungarian Csarda restaurant in Soho wa had a v expensive meal there .
. Enoch Kent used to play with Josh border reivers and had no involvement with the Emmettones.
Hamish carried on as a singer , Booby went to work as assistant editor with The Scotsman, Josh had an early death (I believe)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate
  Share Thread:
More...

Reply to Thread
Subject:  Help
From:
Preview   Automatic Linebreaks   Make a link ("blue clicky")


Mudcat time: 22 February 5:01 AM EST

[ Home ]

All original material is copyright © 1998 by the Mudcat Café Music Foundation, Inc. All photos, music, images, etc. are copyright © by their rightful owners. Every effort is taken to attribute appropriate copyright to images, content, music, etc. We are not a copyright resource.