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I've posted my last song on Mudcat

Clinton Hammond 11 Apr 01 - 02:12 AM
GUEST,Ewan McVicar 11 Apr 01 - 02:20 AM
wdyat12 11 Apr 01 - 04:26 AM
Joan from Wigan 11 Apr 01 - 04:48 AM
GUEST 11 Apr 01 - 05:07 AM
gnu 11 Apr 01 - 07:27 AM
Willie-O 11 Apr 01 - 08:18 AM
UB Ed 11 Apr 01 - 08:34 AM
GUEST,Matt_R 11 Apr 01 - 08:49 AM
GUEST,SCabby Doug at work 11 Apr 01 - 09:24 AM
GUEST,SD again 11 Apr 01 - 09:24 AM
Mrrzy 11 Apr 01 - 09:52 AM
MMario 11 Apr 01 - 09:55 AM
Jon Freeman 11 Apr 01 - 10:03 AM
GUEST,Roll&Go-C 11 Apr 01 - 10:06 AM
UB Ed 11 Apr 01 - 10:27 AM
UB Ed 11 Apr 01 - 10:28 AM
MMario 11 Apr 01 - 10:29 AM
Jeri 11 Apr 01 - 10:32 AM
Amos 11 Apr 01 - 10:36 AM
Barbara Shaw 11 Apr 01 - 10:50 AM
wysiwyg 11 Apr 01 - 11:13 AM
wysiwyg 11 Apr 01 - 11:16 AM
mousethief 11 Apr 01 - 11:28 AM
Jeri 11 Apr 01 - 11:54 AM
wysiwyg 11 Apr 01 - 12:26 PM
Clinton Hammond 11 Apr 01 - 01:16 PM
Amergin 11 Apr 01 - 01:18 PM
wysiwyg 11 Apr 01 - 01:28 PM
mousethief 11 Apr 01 - 01:29 PM
mousethief 11 Apr 01 - 01:32 PM
Jon Freeman 11 Apr 01 - 01:36 PM
Amergin 11 Apr 01 - 01:38 PM
Jon Freeman 11 Apr 01 - 01:41 PM
Clinton Hammond 11 Apr 01 - 01:41 PM
mousethief 11 Apr 01 - 01:46 PM
Amergin 11 Apr 01 - 01:46 PM
Amergin 11 Apr 01 - 01:48 PM
MMario 11 Apr 01 - 01:51 PM
Clinton Hammond 11 Apr 01 - 01:55 PM
Mark Clark 11 Apr 01 - 01:56 PM
Amergin 11 Apr 01 - 02:02 PM
Clinton Hammond 11 Apr 01 - 02:04 PM
Amergin 11 Apr 01 - 02:07 PM
mousethief 11 Apr 01 - 02:09 PM
Big Mick 11 Apr 01 - 02:13 PM
Clinton Hammond 11 Apr 01 - 02:13 PM
Bernard 11 Apr 01 - 02:15 PM
mousethief 11 Apr 01 - 02:21 PM
Clinton Hammond 11 Apr 01 - 02:21 PM
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Subject: I've posted my last song on Mudcat
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 02:12 AM

This is such a pain in the ass, having to add html codes to posts... and for NO GOOD REASON AT ALL!!! Any MB worth it's salt would pre-format! So from here on in, no more song posts from me! Ya want lyrics from me, I'll emaile 'em to ya, but Mudcat can get stuffed!!!


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Subject: RE: I've posted my last song on Mudcat
From: GUEST,Ewan McVicar
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 02:20 AM

Well, there we are. Words of comfort fail me.


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Subject: RE: I've posted my last song on Mudcat
From: wdyat12
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 04:26 AM

ClintonHammond,

Not quite sure what this is all about yet, but you sound pretty mad.

wdyat12


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Subject: RE: I've posted my last song on Mudcat
From: Joan from Wigan
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 04:48 AM

Clinton, I have been a grateful recipient of your words and chords in the past. As a poster of songs, I can also understand your frustration. I feel irked at having to type out something I have already typed out for my personal song database, and often wish I could just cut-and-paste. However, it's not possible with the current Mudcat software, so I grit my teeth and plough on regardless.

I look at it this way: I have gratefully received, from you and others, and from the DT, the words and chords of songs I would otherwise not have been able to find. And I know others too are extremely grateful for this site and for the many helpful people who contribute to it, without whom it would be useless.

I am thankful enough to want to give something back. And if that involves a little bit of frustration in re-typing and adding line-breaks, then so be it.

I hope this is just a mood-swing you're going through, and not a permanent thing, because you've added lots of quality to this site, and I'd hate you to feel so cheesed off that you can no longer contribute as fully as you have done so far. You may feel differently in a day or two, or a week or two, so please don't feel that just because you've said this publicly that you can't change your mind - you can if you want to!

Joan


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Subject: RE: I've posted my last song on Mudcat
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 05:07 AM

None of my business really. I'm only a guest myself. But if someone complains, in anger and frustration, I just hope someone takes it seriously.

There is never JUST ONE unhappy customer.

BS


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Subject: RE: I've posted my last song on Mudcat
From: gnu
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 07:27 AM

Clinton... did you get a GBS CD stuck on replay or something ?


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Subject: RE: I've posted my last song on Mudcat
From: Willie-O
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 08:18 AM

Me, I'm unable to type anything anywhere without adding br and p tabs now...

Willie-O


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Subject: RE: I've posted my last song on Mudcat
From: UB Ed
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 08:34 AM

I hear ya, Clint.

As I was crusing over the last couple weeks, I came across an excellent suggestion about how WORD documents can be tweaked to find & replace the end paragraph tab with the br. I thought I was smart enough to remember, but was wrong.

Did anybody else see it, and if so, can we repeat it here?


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Subject: RE: I've posted my last song on Mudcat
From: GUEST,Matt_R
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 08:49 AM

Same here, Willie. I can do html on non-formatted in a matter of minutes. And believe me, I've done some LONG songs before.


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Subject: RE: I've posted my last song on Mudcat
From: GUEST,SCabby Doug at work
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 09:24 AM

In Microsoft word , if you search for ^p (that's the caret symbol like the circumflex accent, then a p), you could search and replace it with the left chevron, "b", then the right chevron or "<BR>". That should do it...

If you don't have Word, ummm...


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Subject: RE: I've posted my last song on Mudcat
From: GUEST,SD again
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 09:24 AM

Ha! knew it would eat the BR inside the angle brackets...


SD, I have fixed it. To do what you tried, you need to type &lt;br&gt; JoeClone.


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Subject: RE: I've posted my last song on Mudcat
From: Mrrzy
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 09:52 AM

It's really easy to take text and turn it into HTML with a couple of global search&replaces. In fact, Clinton Hammond, since I like you and your music so much, why don't you email me the files and I'll do the turning into HTML for you. My emails on the Resources. Don't give us up just because our technology ain't what it otta be... please?


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Subject: RE: I've posted my last song on Mudcat
From: MMario
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 09:55 AM

I virtually never type lyrics for posting - it's all cut and paste...


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Subject: RE: I've posted my last song on Mudcat
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 10:03 AM

Clinton, if it is such a big deal to you, why not just post and let a JoeClone sort it out? I'm sure it wouldn't add that much of a burden to us.

Jon


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Subject: RE: I've posted my last song on Mudcat
From: GUEST,Roll&Go-C
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 10:06 AM

The current system is irritating, but so is much word processing learning, and relearning. Hope you're not permanently bent out of shape.

Say how do I make one line BOLD, instead of the whole damn thing?


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Subject: Lyr Add: ALL ALONG THE WATCHTOWER (Bob Dylan)
From: UB Ed
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 10:27 AM

Let's see if it works:ALL ALONG THE WATCHTOWER
(Bob Dylan)

Am G F G Am (play it forever)

There must be some kind of way out of here
Said the joker to the thief
There's too much confusion
I can't get no relief
Businessmen they drink my wine
Plowmen dig my earth
None of them along the line Know what any of it is worth

No reason to get excited
The thief he kindly spoke
There are many here among us
Who feel that life is but a joke
But you and I we've been through that
And this is not our fate
So let us not talk falsely now
he hour is getting late

All along the watchtower
Princes kept the view
While all the women came and went
Barefoot servants too
Outside in the distance
A wildcat did growl
Two riders were approaching
The wind began to howl


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Subject: RE: I've posted my last song on Mudcat
From: UB Ed
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 10:28 AM

It does! Thanks Scabby!


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Subject: RE: I've posted my last song on Mudcat
From: MMario
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 10:29 AM

just like line breaks but b instead of br before the part you want bolded and then /b after...


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Subject: RE: I've posted my last song on Mudcat
From: Jeri
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 10:32 AM

What Jon said. It's a pain to type line breaks in, but not a very big one. I type in <br> once and copy it, then whenever I want one, just type Ctrl/V. I don't mind helping you out if you find it a major aggravation to type the line breaks in.

Charlie, you type in <b>to make text bold, then </b> wherever you want the boldness to stop.


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Subject: RE: I've posted my last song on Mudcat
From: Amos
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 10:36 AM

Both Netscape Composer and Word can convert to HTML automatically. You type, as in a word processor, and save to the desktop or someplace as (filename.html). Open it in a browser (IE or NS), view source and select and copy the actual content, now HTML formatted. Don't copy the page head stuff -- just from the first line you typed tothe end of your last line.

Then go over to the Mudcat thread of interest and hit Paste. Bingo -- fully formatted HTML in a thread without typing any containers or other html commands.

A


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Subject: RE: I've posted my last song on Mudcat
From: Barbara Shaw
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 10:50 AM

Amos, what a great idea! Never thought of it.

Clinton, I agree that it's pretty primitive to have to do all the HTML on posts. I do know HTML, but it's a gigantic pain, and a skill that will be totally obsolete before too long, and not really worth knowing. (And then there's the issue that the songs I post never make it to the database anyway . . .)


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Subject: RE: I've posted my last song on Mudcat
From: wysiwyg
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 11:13 AM

ALL THESE have been covered in the FAQ thread. As I see it we have two choices here. Learn to use the tools we have or let someone else use them... and I too would gladly offer to format things e-mailed to me. I have spent the last week getting a batch ready to post to clear up some older confusing threads, in fact, and I also post about three pieces each week from the songsheets I am creating for our church services or our jam group. I can do it in my sleep.

My e-mail clicky is all over this Forum too, as well as below, so feel free anyone. People help ME a lot because I am on a real bad sucky computer, so this is something I can do easily and am glad to do to contribute here.

But also please at least read the FAQ thread. It IS a lot to absorb all at once but ALL of us can learn one trick at a time.

I also have a Word template document that sits on my desktop with HTML templates to do what is described here. E-mail me if you want me to e-mail it to you as an attachment.

(Click HERE to e-mail me. SUBJECT LINE: HTML TEMPLATE or PLEASE POST FOR ME)

~S~

Here is the rest of what my templates can do, all simply pasted in from it. (No significance to the things these clickies will take you to-- just samples):




If you're new around here, have you checked out THIS yet?


And now, another shameless plug for the Mudcat FAQ Thread! No Mysteries Unsolved! Get Your Mudcat HTML Secret Decoder!
IT'S EASY--JUST CLICK THIS for Your Free, All-Expenses Paid Mudcat Tour du Jour!


Another DT treasure: TYPE SONG TITLE HERE

CLICK HERE

4 Sacred Harp singings in 4 weeks

This should be bold (as should we all)

This should be italics and I really mean it!

This should be big print

And this should be small print

Some people like to use strikeout

   preformatted text is nice for lyrics with chords  




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Subject: RE: I've posted my last song on Mudcat
From: wysiwyg
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 11:16 AM

And if anyone else has some good tricks, please e-mail them to me and I will add them to my HTML TRIX doc.

~S~


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Subject: RE: I've posted my last song on Mudcat
From: mousethief
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 11:28 AM

Me, I just plop 'em into microsoft Word, where I have a macro on the button bar which automatically does the work for me. Then I copy all and dump it into the box in Mudcat.

And I'm no genius.

Alex


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Subject: RE: I've posted my last song on Mudcat
From: Jeri
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 11:54 AM

I use notepad to write out song lyrics. It would be fairly simple to do a template for that.


<b>Song Title</b><br>
<br>
Line of verse<br>
Line of verse<br>
Line of verse<br>
Line of verse<br>
Blank space<br>
Line of verse<br>


You could reduce that so you don't have to delete anything, just type in:
<b></b><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>

Copy this to a Notepad file.<br>
Whenever you wanted to type lyrics,<br>
type them into the Notepad file and copy&paste to mesage window,<br>
or copy&paste the tempate, then type.<br>
<br>
Hope that helps. I still find it easier to hit Ctrl/V.<br>


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Subject: RE: I've posted my last song on Mudcat
From: wysiwyg
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 12:26 PM

Jeri, I think you missed the cancel-bold commands there?

~S~


Thanks Susan - fixed it! --JoeClone(guess who)


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Subject: I've REALLY posted my last song on Mudcat
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 01:16 PM

See... Frigg'n primative garbage... "add these in here", "Compose it in this and copy it to that and then drag it here", "learn this trick and that trick"... I have better things to do... No way am I going through that much BULL!! If I see song requests that I could respond to, I'll offer that they PM me thier email addy and I'll send it to them with key, tuning, chord structure and all kinds of mean and nasty things! Mudcat sucks and not in the good way, and it doesn't have to!!!


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Subject: RE: I've posted my last song on Mudcat
From: Amergin
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 01:18 PM

Ok, so why are you announcing this?


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Subject: RE: I've posted my last song on Mudcat
From: wysiwyg
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 01:28 PM

Well I WOULD like to be able to just think of a song while driving and then see it materialize in the forum....

Really, CH, posting songs is pretty simple. Are you suggesting that we should be able to type them right in, with coding automatic? This would actually slow me down, since my first reason for typing them (if I have not dropped and dragged them in from another source) is to create songsheets formatted the way I want them.

You don't do your songwriting online do you? Aren't they already in some other form to begin with? Do you know about highlight, drop, and rag? Cuz really it IS that simple.

And some people also hae Optical Character Recognition scanners... these convert what they see into text, no typing. Or software that takes dictation and makes text...

If Max were to standardize how we post songs, we'd lose the ability to do them the way we like, too.

Tellya what though. If you answer a request in e-mail, how about you send me a copy too and I will post it for you. Just put me in your address book.

~Susan

motormice@hotmail.com


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Subject: RE: I've posted my last song on Mudcat
From: mousethief
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 01:29 PM

We all wish mudcat were a little more like the way WE want it. It's like the way MAX wants it, and we can either live with that or take our ball and go home. Whining about it is really poor form, IMHO.

Alex


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Subject: RE: I've posted my last song on Mudcat
From: mousethief
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 01:32 PM

If you (as I have) read those threads that say "Max Testing -- do not post here" you will know that Max has tried all sorts of different ways to get song lyrics to post without us having to type in the HTML tags. Obviously this is something he is concerned about, and equally obvious is that he hasn't found one yet he likes, or he would have implemented it.

Meanwhile, if you're too lazy to drop song lyrics into MSWord and have it auto-format them for you, then just don't post lyrics. But why whine about it?

Alex


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Subject: RE: I've posted my last song on Mudcat
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 01:36 PM

Clinton, you have already had 2 JoeClones indicating a willingness to help out why not take advantage of that instead of continuing your protest?

Jon


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Subject: RE: I've posted my last song on Mudcat
From: Amergin
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 01:38 PM

Well, I like it the way it is....I don't mind having to use the < br >....I'm just glad there are HTML capabilities here....


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Subject: RE: I've posted my last song on Mudcat
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 01:41 PM

Yes, Mousthief, it does exist on the test system but I don't know if or when Max intends to implement it. I have been allowed to try it and found it was great for posting lyrics but I found it horrible for posting other HTML, e.g. with a table, I like to place the TRs and TDs on separate lines and use indentation so that I can actually see what belongs to what - can't do that with line breaks added.

Jon


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Subject: RE: I've posted my last song on Mudcat
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 01:41 PM

I'm not whining about it MT et al... I'm letting my opinions be known, in hopes that thngs might be changed... But it's such a complacent lot here, I'm not holding my breath... and also, this way, when I post that I have lyrics that I'm NOT posting, I can refer the person here so they know why... Too lazy?? No... I just don't like doing stupid fiddl'y grunt work that no MB in it's right mind requires me to do... When you're word processing a document, you don't add the hidden codes in yourself do you??? NO... and this place should be NO differenet... Ever tried to post a song here with chords above the lyrics? It's nearly impossible to get it right without fecking around with html code for hours... feck that... rollit up in a tight wee ball and cram it with wallnuts!


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Subject: RE: I've posted my last song on Mudcat
From: mousethief
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 01:46 PM

What you're complaining about is HTML. Max can't change that. And as I said, if you were observant, you'd know that Max has been trying to make song-posting more friendly but hasn't yet found a way he's satisfied with. So "letting [your] opinions be known in hopes that things might be changed" is rather unnecessary. Thus it looks like whining.

We'd all like to be able to post song lyrics without fiddling with the HTML. Max is working on it. Meanwhile we have to take a few extra steps. Such a hardship! And there are porn sites I could be surfing instead!

Alex


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Subject: RE: I've posted my last song on Mudcat
From: Amergin
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 01:46 PM

Clinton, I ask again, so why announce it?


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Subject: RE: I've posted my last song on Mudcat
From: Amergin
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 01:48 PM

Alex, if it weren't this I'm sure our esteemed friend here would be bitching and moaning and carrying on about something else....


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Subject: RE: I've posted my last song on Mudcat
From: MMario
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 01:51 PM

well - posting chords above lyrics ISN'T going to work right -ever- at least not on everyones browser - because the viewer has a choice of what fonts get used - and most people use fonts that aren't going to line up properly unless the post was written in the same font.


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Subject: RE: I've posted my last song on Mudcat
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 01:55 PM

Setting up a MB so that it can be searched and posted to easily is child play simple... So don't try to tell me that max is 'working on it but can't find a way to do it'.. this place has sat stagnant for HOW LONG? screw it... and amerigin... feck off! Ya got nothing intelligent ot offer, don't offer anything... at least MT and I can discuss our differences in opinion and such without acting like children...


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Subject: RE: I've posted my last song on Mudcat
From: Mark Clark
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 01:56 PM

What Max has given us is the flexibility to present our posts almost any way we feel they should look. This lets us give each other links to other information on the Net, highlight text and lyrics so chord references are easy to understand, construct simple tablature for sharing technique and whole lot more. This power and flexibility comes at a price and that is some responsibility dealing with the markup tags. I think the tradeoff is a good one but then I'm a computer guy.

I use a free editor—EMACS is my choice but there are many simpler ones—whenever I'm doing anything complicated like tablature or lyrics. The editors let me simply type things the way I want them to look. I can simply highlight text like you would in a word processor and pick bold or emphasized from a tool bar. The editor plugs in the beginning and ending tags so all I have to do is copy it and paste it into the Mudcat thread window.

Maybe I'll look for free and easy HTML editors and post links back here.

And if anyone wants to post lyrics but it's too much trouble, you can also email them to me and I'll typeset them for you. I'd really hate to see us lose a song.

      - Mark


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Subject: RE: I've posted my last song on Mudcat
From: Amergin
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 02:02 PM

Yes, and telling me to "feck off" is acting like an adult. BTW if it is so easy, why don't you set it up instead of whining about it?


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Subject: RE: I've posted my last song on Mudcat
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 02:04 PM

Yes it is... and I'd set it up, but it's not MY web site!


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Subject: RE: I've posted my last song on Mudcat
From: Amergin
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 02:07 PM

Then shut up and move on.


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Subject: RE: I've posted my last song on Mudcat
From: mousethief
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 02:09 PM

What's an MB?


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Subject: RE: I've posted my last song on Mudcat
From: Big Mick
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 02:13 PM

The facts are that there are two sides to each coin. Making it easier usually results in less flexibility and fewer options. But what really troubles me is the attitude demonstrated. Trying to urge the change in the manner you are using demonstrates that you seem to think you have the right to do so, because this is something you have coming. Our little world here exists only because Max continues to let it exist even though it costs him financially, emotionally, and in terms of his time. Time for you to wake up to some stuff. You don't have shit coming, and instead of whining about this publicly why don't you just contact Max personally and have a discussion of it with him. When you use comments like "Mudcat sucks" and "Mudcat can get stuffed" you demonstrate much about yourself and invite the comments you are receiving. Or better yet, why not send him a check to help pay for some different technology? Oh no,...sorry, I forgot.......... that won't do, cause that would be like paying for downloaded tracks, or ripping off software. Why put yourself out, when you can enjoy someone elses hardwork and you don't have to pay. And then you have the gall to bitch about it.

Mick


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Subject: RE: I've posted my last song on Mudcat
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 02:13 PM

Mark Clark... I appreciate the effort, but that's at the heart of my dissatisfaction... I'm not gonna download a whole new program to post lyrics here... there's no reason for it... I should be able to simply open my copy of lyrics that are already typed into my word processor of choice, copy and paste em here and have done... To have to then go back and add all the junk html is a huge pain in the ass... and the number of songs I've already elected to not post because of it is huge... If I could copy and paste the way the rest of the net works, Hell... I'd be tempted to post the 200-300 songs I have on this beast... Just to add 'em to the Database...


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Subject: RE: I've posted my last song on Mudcat
From: Bernard
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 02:15 PM

For some of us HTML is almost a way of life - comes second nature, etc.

However, I concede that it is archaic, especially when you consider the massive strides computer technology has taken in such a tiny space of time.

However, there are so many HTML editors around that it should be possible to incorporate the function in Mudcat - maybe in a similar way to 'Outlook' where you can decide for yourself whether to post 'text only' or HTML.

Computers are supposed to be time savers, but are the opposite for many people.

I fully understand, CH, that it is more than just frustrating to post something, then be on pins waiting to see how it really turns out - only to find you missed one character that screws up the entire mess.

Those of us brought up on BASIC programming know that only too well!

One answer may be a small HTML editor program that Mudcatters may download, which allows us to insert codes from a 'pick list'.

Just a thought...


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Subject: RE: I've posted my last song on Mudcat
From: mousethief
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 02:21 PM

This really does look like "looking a gift horse in the mouth" -- complaining about something that costs you nothing and from which you derive great benefit, because it is a LEETLE inconvenient.

What the hell is an MB?

Alex


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Subject: RE: I've posted my last song on Mudcat
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 02:21 PM

Bmick... ummm.. lemme see.. first.. I don't believe that I have anything coming to me... I'm keen to make mudcat all that it can be.. a fantastic online resource for folk and blues music... but... as it stands now, it's far from it, and the changes that could be made are so simple... Send Max a check?? Like Napster, when I see that the standards of Mudcat are up to what I expect them to be, what they could be som simply, I'd gladly pay for this service... until then, nope...

Regarding opitions... what options do we have now?? None as far as I can see... we can post and feck aobut with html until out eyes bleed, trying to make the damn chords sit in the right places over the words, or we can not post... What am I missing?

MT... a MB is a message board... sorry... I just assumed that eveyone here posting on this messageboards would know that... oops...


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Mudcat time: 28 January 3:28 PM EST

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