I've posted my last song on Mudcat

Subject: RE: I've posted my last song on Mudcat
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 02:24 PM

here's a $10,000 question???

Since when does the enter KEY work, so that you don't have to put in line breads and paragraph breaks????????

Subject: RE: I've posted my last song on Mudcat
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 02:24 PM

And what the hell is a line bread?!?!?!?!?!?!

Subject: RE: I've posted my last song on Mudcat
From: Robo
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 02:27 PM

"Aw . . . the humanity!"

Rob-o

Subject: RE: I've posted my last song on Mudcat
From: Bernard
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 02:31 PM

I thought 'MB' was Message Board...

But then, I'm old and wrinkly, and remember...

Subject: RE: I've posted my last song on Mudcat
From: mousethief
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 02:35 PM

If the changes are so simple, why not send Max an email detailing your suggestion? That is sure to be taken more positively than a "this place sucks" thread. Every now and then Max puts up a "what would you like to see?" thread, and we are free to say whatever improvements we would like. I hardly see this as a place where we must like it the way it is, or lump it. But a little -um- gentleness in making suggestions probably goes a long way.

I've never seen any editor box online that would make lining up chords easy -- does such a thing exist? Have you made one and tested it, so that you KNOW that it could work the way you THINK it would? I'm very skeptical about this.

Actually I don't think I've heard the term "message board" or if i did it washed over me and I didn't think about it very much (always a real and eminent danger). Thanks for the defn.

Line bread -- perhaps that is a spoonerism of brine lead, which of course is a sounding device.

Alex

Subject: RE: I've posted my last song on Mudcat
From: MMario
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 02:37 PM

One advantage of the mudcat forum the way it is is that it is more compatible with text only browsers than are those web forums that are pure html.

Subject: RE: I've posted my last song on Mudcat
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 02:46 PM

Ummm... does anybody even use text only browsers anymore? And why would they?!? That's like running a TRS-80 on purpose! LOL!!

On Ezboards, UBB MB's, and just about any other MB that I frequent I can post a line and if I need to I can just space bar or tab over to the appropriate word to put a chiord name over... easy peasy puddin' and pie...

And ummm... abck tot he line bread thing... what's a brine lead?? A sounding device? OH WAIT! As in depth sounding!!! Gotcha! D'uh...

Subject: RE: I've posted my last song on Mudcat
From: John Hardly
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 02:49 PM

I have a certain amount of sympathy because, try as I may, I don't UNDERSTAND the FAQ's. I figured out line breaks the long way early on.

I just recently figured out my own way to use one key and substitute it for br breaks in "Word". But I just look admiringly at those of you so facile with code that you can put chords over lyrics, make links (especially the ones where the words of the text INCLUDE the link--very fancy!)

I don't know if I'm learning disabled but I just can't remember codes long enough to go from window to window and still remember them. And I don't understand the lingo that makes the FAQs make sense (I just learned that html is not an abbrieviation for "hotmail")

I even feel that, though I wouldn't want a thing changed for my sake, my lack of facility with the process has caused me to be misunderstood several times. I can't express myself, but it's quite clear that most of you have no trouble.

Subject: RE: I've posted my last song on Mudcat
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 03:00 PM

Yes, Clinton, text browsers are still used.

Jon

Subject: RE: I've posted my last song on Mudcat
From: wysiwyg
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 03:11 PM

(*&%&* )(*^*(&%*& (*&()*)(*^ )_(&()*&()*^ B(*&()*^()^& ()*&(*&*&*&( (*(*)&()*&(*&*)(& (*&(*&()*&()*& (*(*&)

There, now I feel beer TOO.

John H, e-mail me anything you want done that you can't do. I am a learner but I can do it.

RANT ON, I don't do this often, and DAMMIT HERE I GO!

CH, yer just being a poohead! If you have a file of 200 - 300 songs, send them to someone who will be a better steward of them! Me! I'll post them ALL! Just cuz yer being so SILLY! I'll take out a new membership called CH's Secretary! And recruit a crew to help me and give them the password to post as CH's Secretary!

RANT OFF... Maybe!

~S~

Subject: RE: I've posted my last song on Mudcat
From: John Hardly
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 03:14 PM

Hey thanks ~S~! ...but I don't understand the code at the top of your last post ;o)

Subject: RE: I've posted my last song on Mudcat
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 03:18 PM

Yes... I have a folder with 2-300 songs in it... mostly stuff that I've been performing over the last 4 or 5 years... and ya know what, I AIN'T just handing it out willy nilly!! That folder represents an invesment of time and energy, that I'm not about to completly devalue by copying... You don't just hand out phone numbers of pub managers and gig contacts do you?

Subject: RE: I've posted my last song on Mudcat
From: wysiwyg
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 03:21 PM

Yeah, e-mail me JH and I'll translate!

Oho! Funny typo alert! Feel "BEER"??? "BETTER"!!!

Rattlebang keys, punch, ENTER, BLAMMMM!

~John Hardly's FRIEND (Helluva lot better than being Some Poohead's SECRETARY!)

Subject: RE: I've posted my last song on Mudcat
From: wysiwyg
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 03:24 PM

CH, you are the only Mudcatter I have run into yet that is here NOT to just SHARE. (Except for total flamers and whack jobs.)

So NOW I get it.

~S~

Subject: RE: I've posted my last song on Mudcat
From: MMario
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 03:30 PM

a great many people use text browsers - especially people who are associated with educational systems - or who are on slow phone lines , or who have limited cache capacity, or who just don't like the "bells and whistles". -

for example - NONE of my nieces and nephews have been able to utilize their standard browsers through their college networks. (And we are NOT talking East Podunk U. here, we are talking highly accredited and respected Universities.) As they really had no choice in the matter - they were restricted to text browsers.

Subject: RE: I've posted my last song on Mudcat
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 03:31 PM

To me, mudcat is first and formost a tool for me to use to find information I want... after that, if I can then help someone who's looking for lyrics that I have, I'm more than happy... but to post my whole collection... nope... Music is my livelyhood... and that folder is part of it...

We all gotta have our secrets and out tricks...

Subject: RE: I've posted my last song on Mudcat
From: Jeri
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 03:35 PM

OK, here's one for you. Pre-formatted text displays line breaks simply where you hit the enter key. No <br>s required. EXCEPT at Mudcat. You still need <br>s here.

I have no idea why this doesn't work at Mudcat, but it would certainly save a bit of work if we could just type <pre> in at the beginning and </pre> at the end of a song. The chord positioning would work too.

This is still something one has to learn how to do.

If this were an e-mail list or newsgroup, things would work the way Clinton would want. They could also easily display our return e-mail addresses, real or faked, the way Bruce O wants. It's HTML based, though, and probably will remain so. I don't think all the searches - songs, members' posts, threads, etc, would be possible if this forum weren't HTML based. Even if they were, converting would be nothing I'd even dream of Max to consider.

Subject: RE: I've posted my last song on Mudcat
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 03:38 PM

See Jeri.. that's what I asked above.. apparently I don't need the br tag to add line breaks...

since when has THIS been the case?

No br tags in this post...

;-)

Subject: RE: I've posted my last song on Mudcat
From: IvanB
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 03:55 PM

Well, Clinton, let's see here: you've offered to let us know if you've a song you think others would like, and. if we PM you with our email addy, you'll send us an email with the lyrics. So, as I see it, if 100 people PM you for the lyrics, you'll open your Personal Page some number of times (assuming all the requests won't come in one session online) to read them, you'll open your email program the same number of times, type in 100 email addresses, either cut and paste or attach the lyrics to 100 pieces of email and send. And all this has saved you the trouble of entering 20 or 30 line breaks? Somehow I don't see the economy of it. And, remember, once you post the offer, it's here for the foreseeable future at least, so you'd better keep all your offered lyrics where they can be easily found so you can fulfill requests 2 or 3 years down the road.

Yeah, HTML probably ain't the best thing to ever come down the pike. But I also know from experience that when you make a change such as going to plaintext in the forum instead of html, you're probably going to be introducing a host of other problems which will need solving. So I doubt that it's just Max's recalcitrance (as you seem to think) that's keeping the MC Forum in html format. And a number of posters have offered to format the stuff for you, which would involve just one email as opposed to possibly hundreds - so what's the beef?

Subject: RE: I've posted my last song on Mudcat
From: Mark Clark
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 04:32 PM

There have been two recent threads:

Mudcat Changes Coming, Suggestions Here
Mudcat Design Suggestions

Read through these, your suggestion may already have been submitted. If not, post a polite constructive suggestion and I'm sure Joe and Max will take note of it.

      - Mark

Subject: RE: I've posted my last song on Mudcat
From: katlaughing
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 04:34 PM

Thanks, Big Mick, for pointing out the money thing.

Mudcat is a NON-PROFIT which does NOT pay any of its employees! It exists through the timeless generosity of Max, Bert and others who volunteer countless hours. If you want it better, DONATE money, NOW, not when it suits you to a "tee". That's the biggest bunch of backassward crap I've ever heard. "Make it MY way and then I'll share." Bullshit! You don't hear Art Thieme, Sandy Paton and a host of others saying that; holding their knowledge and songs close to their chests because they don't want to do a little bit of extra typing.

If Max had more consistent donations to use for equipment, people, etc. these things would get ironed out faster. As it is, you can work with or be a "whiney titty-baby." Maybe you should start singing that old song "I don't wanna play in your yard!"

kat

Subject: RE: I've posted my last song on Mudcat
From: Sorcha
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 04:50 PM

UBB has preformatted HTML, but I HATE the layout of UBB boards.......it's awful, and the Mudcat layout/format is so much more flexible.......you can basically do what you want to with it, instead of having built in auto slots. Just my opinion.

Subject: RE: I've posted my last song on Mudcat
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 05:04 PM

Couldn't we do, for instance, Sorcha, the Mudcat on a UBB board with only one slot? Seems to me we could... For those of you who are unfamilliar with UBB coded MB's, go to

http://www.armourarchive.org/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/forumdisplay.cgi?action=topics&number=7&SUBMIT=Go

For a good example of a UBB MB... it's armour related, but it's their Off Topic board...

Post a test post and see all the features you can have... preformatted text, spellchecker, preview posts, auto URL's, auto image links... I kinda like UBB myself...

What is it about the layout of UBB you don't like Sorcha.. I'm very curious to hear..

;-)

Subject: RE: I've posted my last song on Mudcat
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 05:15 PM

Clinton, you're on target in one respect: A thread with a title like "I've posted my last song to Mudcat!" gets a hell of a lot more attention than "Max...please simplify song formatting!" And certainly comments like "Mudcat Sucks!" get more attention than "Mudcat is a great site that is seriously flawed in the following ways..."

Now, I think ,CH, that you come to the forum for much more than the acquisition and distribution of songs. I've seen your posts on any number of topics from tech to bullcrap, so I also think you are being a bit devious about your reasons for being here. You impress me as someone who gets the occasional charge out of being an a$$hole, and that's not meant as an insult because I have some of the same inclinations.

I do agree that making it easier to cut and paste songs in original format to this forum would make things easier for all of us. You've got everyone's attention. Now relax.

Subject: RE: I've posted my last song on Mudcat
From: GUEST,Philippa
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 05:24 PM

Well, I have moaned and groaned a bit about having to use long codes for diacritical marks. Even then I was mostly upset that these characters (for instance accented letters) often appeared okay when first posted and then mutated whenever Mudcat went through technical overhauls. There are various ways to create these characters but only one set of codes that seems to work on all html systems.

I have to say that enabling line breaks would make life easier, especially for new contributors. But I think it's fine to need html codes for different font sizes, colours, formats (bold, italic), clickable links.

My overall reaction to needing the use of these codes at Mudcat is that it was a great learning experience for me. Lots of people gave advice and I have felt a certain amount of pride in being able to manipulate text by using codes. BIG Mick - isn't that how you feel when you write about Alison in multicolour glory? That such a marvellous woman deserves the effort you take to do this code (at least once; you probably saved the model to copy and paste again and again)?

Subject: RE: I've posted my last song on Mudcat
From: Bert
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 05:34 PM

Here's a personal opinion from Bert - NOT OFFICIAL

Those of you who have read the "who are you?" threads will know that I am a designer at heart. I've designed many things from Nuclear heat exchangers to sewage treatment plants and also quite a bit of software.

One of the hardest things about being a designer is learning that you have to accept compromises.

Take something we all know about, a car for instance. A designer COULD make a car that goes 300 miles an hour but he would have to accept that such a car would not behave too well in city traffic and would probably cost more than most buyers would be willing to pay.

That same goes with software. One has to balance things such as... the programming tools available, simplicity of use, functionality, screen real estate, economic feasability, performance, reliability, maintenance, support, etc.

Now I've compared this forum with some others out there and think that Max has done a very good job and has produced a valuable tool that is not TOO difficult for most users to understand.

Now if you think that you can improve on any of the compromises that he has had to make then I'm sure a polite email to him volunteering your services to make the necessary changes would be most welcome.

Bert. I will repeat THIS IS A PERSONAL OPINION.

Subject: RE: I've posted my last song on Mudcat
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 06:05 PM

All the HTML I've learnt has been because I need it for Mudcat. And I see that as a very useful bonus for coming here.

As has been pointed out, it's not at all hard to fiddle around with programs like Word, and get whatever you want to post into whatever shape you want to post it, and just copy it across.

The beauty of the Mudcat is its simplicity and flexibility where it matters, far better than any other place I've come across, even the ones with more bells and whistles. Sticking in an improvement here and a modification here would put that at risk. I'd far sooner put up with having to work a tiny bit harder posting things sometimes, and learning useful stuff in the process of getting round the limitations and restrictions. (For example finding a program which has enabled me to spellcheck my posts.)

I'm increasing coming to agree with the view that any change that isn't necessary should be resisted. Long live King Lud.

Subject: RE: I've posted my last song on Mudcat
From: Bill D
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 06:36 PM

piffle!...I am an old coot who never heard of HTML and used computers till 5 years ago, and I can post a song or put chord notation in!...takes very little practice and only a few bits of HTML to deal with it all.

You can't expect to be spoon-fed everything, Clinton...if you don't want to do the 'basics', I suppose we'll just have to survive on the 8000+ songs we already have......

sorry, just my opinion.....(I can drive a stick shift car too, and program a VCR)

(and re:SD, I have fixed it. To do what you tried, you need to type <br> JoeClone.

all you need to *display* HTML instead of executing it is THIS LITTLE PROGRAM

Subject: RE: I've posted my last song on Mudcat
From: mousethief
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 06:37 PM

Oooooh, Bill, can you come over and program my VCR?

Alex

Subject: RE: I've posted my last song on Mudcat
From: Bill D
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 06:45 PM

yup...send ticket..I have good friends near Seattle I'd like to visit. *grin*

(that's my 'parlor trick'...programming a strange VCR without looking at the instructions)

Subject: RE: I've posted my last song on Mudcat
From: Sorcha
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 06:50 PM

Mine too! What I hate about UBB--alternating colors, no trace function, thread originator can delete and entire thread with one click, (although the "poster only Edit" button is nice, then we could fix our own spelling,etc. errors but no body elses), and, most important, Max's choices would be limited by using UBB.

Learning basic HTML certainly did not hurt me any, and typing four more chars after pasting lyrics is just not that big a problem for me. Very seldom have I had to type in all the lyrics. Once in a while, yes, but not often. JoeClones are always willing to fix minor typos, so I don't worry about it too much.

Hey, in 1998, I could play Solitaire on a computer but that was all......I was totally computer/Internet illiterate, and I have come a long way, baby, most of it thanks to Mudcat and the TechieHelpers here.

Thanks again, all you guys!! (dragged kicking and screaming into the computer age, and now I love it!)

Subject: RE: I've posted my last song on Mudcat
From: Burke
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 09:07 PM

A little confused here. CH said If I could copy and paste the way the rest of the net works, Hell... I'd be tempted to post the 200-300 songs I have on this beast... Just to add 'em to the Database...; but when an offer was made to help with same was made ...

Oh I get it, hyperbole.

When you hit enter twice, you do get the paragraphs. It's been that way as long as I've been here. You need the br line endings so your verses aren't double spaced.

Have you ever copied text from a web page to some text editor & gone nuts getting rid of all the line breaks & leading spaces? Or ended up with all those long line, short line email messages because of quotes? I don't post a lot of lyrics here, but I've lost track of how much time I spend in personal word processing on messing with that stuff that copies just as it was on the page. I know how to save a text, but if there's just a little text, it's a real pain.

I guess my point is a bit like Bert's. There are tradeoffs. Knowing how Mudcat works, I don't have to bother getting rid of some big spaces from copy&paste that I can see as I post in that quote above because I know they will close up. I do have to put other formatting stuff in.

Subject: RE: I've posted my last song on Mudcat
From: Big Mick
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 10:13 PM

Tá, a cara Philippa, is maith an t-anlann a t-ocras. If one wants to learn it enough, they will figure out how and it will become easier. Couple up the knowledge of the system with a little knowledge of shortcuts and it is not hard at all. In fact it makes the use of html an asset.

I have been thinking about this thread a lot as I have been about the business of union organizing today. While I don't appreciate derogatory comments about the Mudcat or Max and his helpers, I think I understand Clinton's aim a little better. He and I don't agree on some basic issues, but as I reread this thread I think what he is after is the betterment of our community. I don't like his methodology, and I have a very hard time with smartass comments directed at people who do this at great personal expense to themselves. But I do believe that the intent was to make it a better tool. I know that his contributions here have contributed to all of our understanding of the music to which we have dedicated ourselves. One day soon, I hope I can make my way through the Windsor tunnel and meet him at the Bar-b-que and talk about this shit. I think I will meet a person that I like. And I hope we can work out our differences. But in the meantime let's let up a bit. Clinton, sorry for that part of my comments that came off smartassed. And I hope you can see that it isn't your desire for a more efficient way to post that has some of us riled up.

All the best,

Mick

Subject: RE: I've posted my last song on Mudcat
From: catspaw49
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 10:31 PM

Well.........I've watched this whole thing unfold and basically Clinton has these occasional 'roid flare-ups that make him crank out some smartass shit........a syndrome I'm familiar with myself. I keep thinking that for every one of these, there are a hundred where he can be a supportive smart-ass and a hundred more where he's a pretty fair guy. Once again, I recognize the syndrome myself. In this case we disagree. Who cares..........

Max is working on some things I know and I hope they work out, but until they do, I don't mind the HTML stuff. Like a lot of others, this place has taught me things I would never have thought of trying and I like the fact that I can do it. Bert's right, everything is often a tradeoff and I want to know what I give up for auto line breaks.

So Clinton, bark up my ass and I'll bark up yours, but like Mick, I look forward to having a few with you sometime so we can yell at each other and roll on the floor laughing.

Spaw

Subject: RE: I've posted my last song on Mudcat
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Apr 01 - 04:21 AM

Well, I hate drivers who change lanes all the time. And the way I can never find my drill when I need it. And the way my boss always asks if I have a minute just before I am due to go home. And, and, and.... AAArrrggghhh!

So thats it! Feck off the lot of you. I'm annoyed at something so everyone has to know. This is the last time I'll ever drive, or do a job at home, or go to work. Or ever do anything. And no-one tell me I'm wrong because I am better than and have less time than every other pleb on this site. I work for a living you know and don't have time for all this. And I am going to take my ball home if you don't play nice...;-)

Cheers

Dave the spoilt brat.

Subject: RE: I've posted my last song on Mudcat
From: GUEST,Sir Thomas More
Date: 12 Apr 01 - 09:02 AM

Oh..er...ah...excuse me. I'm bolloxed. I've come to the wrong place! Ever so sorry! Sir Thomas

Subject: RE: I've posted my last song on Mudcat
From: Mark Clark
Date: 12 Apr 01 - 10:17 AM

On the subject of helpful editors to ease the job of preparing HTML for posting here, Pene Azul has recommended an HTML editor called Arachnophilia. The program is free from a financial point of view but in using it you agree to the author's CareWare Idea that obligates the licensee as follows:

"So here is my deal: stop whining for an hour, a day, a week, your choice, and you will have earned your copy of Arachnophilia. Say encouraging words to young people, make them feel welcome on the planet Earth (many do not). Show by example that we don't need all we have in order to be happy and productive."

Interesting concept eh?

CH, I sure liked Spaw's comments about the value of having you around here. Put me down for what he said as well.

      - Mark

Subject: RE: I've posted my last song on Mudcat
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 12 Apr 01 - 03:56 PM

Sure thing Mick... but I don't do the Tunnel BBQ... You'll find me in one of the back snugs at the Kildare House... corner of Kildare and Wyandotte... the best pub in town...

See ya and spaw there someday eh!

But ahhh... no ass-barking o.k.? Encourages halatosis...

LOL!!

;-)

Sorcha??

"What I hate about UBB--alternating colors, "

What alternating colours? i'm not sure I know what you mean...

"no trace function, thread originator can delete and entire thread with one click, "

What's wrong with that? It's perfect... You've never had a thread that you wish the original posteer would delete? :-)

"(although the "poster only Edit" button is nice, then we could fix our own spelling,etc. errors but no body elses)"

UBB moderators can edit anyones posts... and yes.. between teh new spell checker and the Edit Post, spelling errors and multi-posts would be a thing of the past...

"and, most important, Max's choices would be limited by using UBB."

How so? Limited by what or to what? Near as I can tell you can do just about anything with UBB that any MB need or wants...

:-)

Subject: RE: I've posted my last song on Mudcat
From: Big Mick
Date: 13 Apr 01 - 12:32 AM

It's friggin' date, Clinton. Sometime in the near future I will be in the area visiting in-laws and I am going to jump in the car and head to see you. Guinness is on me. And ass barking is Spaw's specialty. Seen him re-create the Aurora Borealis in the men's room of a restaraunt in Cincinatti once. Scared the hell out of the cleaning lady.

Mick

Subject: RE: I've posted my last song on Mudcat
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 13 Apr 01 - 10:39 AM

LOL!!!

Too funny Bmick...

;-)

Subject: RE: I've posted my last song on Mudcat
From: Peg
Date: 13 Apr 01 - 11:06 AM

Your complaint seems to be that it is too time-consuming and too much effort to type in line breaks, etc.

Yet you apparently have LOTS of time to complain, bitch, moan, oh, and make all sorts of offensive comments in other threads that have NOTHING to do with music.

You are acting like an ungrateful, boorish jerk.

Why not go start up your own website? That'll show everybody, won't it?

Subject: RE: I've posted my last song on Mudcat
From: GUEST,Eric Berne
Date: 13 Apr 01 - 11:11 AM

Yet another NIGYSOB player!

Subject: RE: I've posted my last song on Mudcat
From: Robo
Date: 13 Apr 01 - 01:22 PM

"Aw . . . the humanity!"

Nuff said, again, I hope.

Rob-o

Subject: RE: I've posted my last song on Mudcat
From: UB Ed
Date: 13 Apr 01 - 02:24 PM

Peg, the timestamp indicates you posted the following at 10:56 today:

"...Remember to love the people still in your life. Remember every human needs compassion: even that kid serving your cappucino, even that grouchy bus driver, even the dirty homeless woman muttering to herself under the awning.

Live large, with love and lust, smell the roses, be good to yourself and others..."

You've received alot of admirative support for that thought.

Yet 12 minutes later you post the above to Clint.

My goodness, he must be your red flag! Can't we think of Clint as a dirty homeless women?

Peace be with you and your Thought for the Day

Ed

Subject: RE: I've posted my last song on Mudcat
From: RichM
Date: 13 Apr 01 - 05:47 PM

I'm grateful that Mudcat exists.
If I have to type bracket-br-bracket once, and cut'n'paste it to the end of each line, small price to pay.

Thanks, Max, and all, for Mudcat!

Rich

Subject: RE: I've posted my last song on Mudcat
From:
Date: 13 Apr 01 - 05:52 PM

I still use a Text Browser, Lynx.

It does a wonderful job. The only problem is when it gets so extended a message set, that I have to go to something else to reply with.

I say, let Clinton be. If he won't post, that is our loss. We are not going to convince him by asking him to help convert the internet to his standard, whatever that is, Mac/Windows/etc. just so we can have his posts again.

I will be sorry to miss his abilities, and hope that he will still contribute in other ways.

The world of the internet proceeds at its own pace, and none of us can change it without a lot of learning on our part.

Thanks Clinton for all the past contributions, and hope to hear from you again in the future. Looking forward to it in fact.

Subject: RE: I've posted my last song on Mudcat
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Apr 01 - 05:54 PM

occasional 'roid flare-ups

Would that be steroid or android?

Subject: RE: I've posted my last song on Mudcat
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 13 Apr 01 - 09:30 PM

Clinton is still posting, though his most recent contribution was already in the DT, and a Joe Clone had to format it for him.

need words Reynard/Tally Ho Hounds Away

Subject: RE: I've posted my last song on Mudcat
From: Joe Offer
Date: 13 Apr 01 - 09:41 PM

I worked pretty hard to type up instructions on how to use search-and-replace to put line breatks in lyrics. It's in the FAQ - under the message titled Posting Lyrics (click). If you have a word processor, it's a trick you should learn, and it really isn't very hard. It's something you can use in a lot of situations, not just at Mudcat. If you had spent your time learning how to do it instead of typing your gripes in this thread, you'd know how to do it by now.

But yeah, Max is well aware that people would prefer to have automatic line breaks. He had it working pretty well in the experimental version of Mudcat, and I used it for about three months - and then it crashed. It isn't hard to do - you just click a box on ColdFusion (the basic program that runs Mudcat), and then ColdFusion automatically inserts line breaks. Unfortunately, it creates some problems that cause us headaches. We could have the line breaks, but then we'd have problems with some clickable links and other things. If we didn't allow HTML in forum messages, it would be very easy to have the automatic line breaks - but most people like the HTML once they learn a little bit of it.

But rest assured that the improvement is in the works, and should be perfected any time now. I 've been monitoring all the suggestion threads and I gave Max a long list of things people wanted - he was able to implement almost every one of them in the experimental Mudcat, but there have some bugs.

You piss me off, Clinton. Max works hard, and he works without pay. The least you could do to show a little gratitude is type a few line breaks.

I will admit that adding line breaks by search-and-replace is difficult or impossible for people who use WEBTV. For people who use a computer, it's very simple. If you have a word processor, you ought to learn how to do search-and-replace. It's a simple, essential skill in word processing.

-Joe Offer-

Subject: Posting Songs at Mudcat
From: Joe Offer
Date: 13 Apr 01 - 10:08 PM

Well, maybe I should rant a little more. When you post lyrics in the forum, you are submitting them for consideration for inclusion in the Digital Tradition Folk Song Database, which has international renown as a resource for folk music information. Since that's the case, I think people should make reasonable efforts to ensure accuracy, completeness, correct spelling and format, and songwriter attribution and copyright information. There is a section in the FAQ that describes the Digital Tradition Format, and that's the format people should follow when they are posting songs.

People have wondered why I say it takes us a half an hour to "harvest" a song that's been posted. It would go a lot quicker if people would remember to search first to see if the song has already been posted and or it it's in the Digital Tradition; and if they'd submit songs in proper format. It also helps if you give background information, and tell us how the song is related to other songs we may already have.

Yeah, we'd like to see people use a little care and scholarship when they post songs. It would take a lot of guesswork out of the job of harvesting.

-Joe Offer-