Help: Uillean Pipe Question

Subject: Uillean Pipe Question
From: ChrisHall
Date: 16 Apr 01 - 12:29 AM

Can anyone offer any advice on pipe purchasing. I have seen inexpensive sets advertised that were made in Pakistan, but can't find anyone to comment on their quality.

Also, is it a pretty standard thing to expect a minimum of a year wait for pipes? While I don't mind shelling out the several thousand dollars for the set, it seems odd to wait 6 months to 2 years for receipt of the set.

Any ideas?

Cheers

Chris Hall Vancouver, BC

Subject: RE: Help: Uillean Pipe Question
From: Big Mick
Date: 16 Apr 01 - 01:11 AM

Hi Chris! I am learning this instrument as well. I would recommend that you get in touch with a piping club. Check out The San Francisco Pipers Club homepage. Read it through thoroughly. Also check out THIS PAGE. You will find learning tips there.

I probably wouldn't bother with a full set right off. There are plenty of pracice sets available. The difference is that a practice set is a bag, bellows and chanter. A half set is the same thing with the addition of the drones. A full set is a half set with the regulators added to them. If you are determined to have a full set built for you, be prepared for the wait you describe. Benedict Kohler and David Quinn, two of the best builders in the world, have a two to three year list. You could put your name on their, or someone's list and begin the practice of learning.

May I make a suggestion as to the course of study? I would pick up Geraldine Cotters book on playing tin whistle and stay with it until you have finished the tuition and are comfortable with your talent. Then take up pipes. AND I would NOT buy a full set before I learned to play a practice set very well. Remember that this is one of the most difficult instruments in the world to play.

Mick

Subject: RE: Help: Uillean Pipe Question
From: alison
Date: 16 Apr 01 - 03:13 AM

I agree with Mick... don't buy a full set

get a practice set and learn to play.... and it is not an easy instrument to play...... be prepared for MANY hours / months /years of "cat- strangling" noises!!!!!

I just got back from a festival where I went to an uilleann pipes tutorial given by Dickie Deegan... and excellent Aussie piper and pipe maker......

his advice was to steer well away from the cheap Pakistani pipes...... follow Mick's advice and see if you can find a pipe maker near you.......

and yes there is usually a wait to get a set of pipes....

slainte

alison

Subject: RE: Help: Uillean Pipe Question
From: GUEST,PJ Curtis
Date: 16 Apr 01 - 05:44 AM

Chris, It might be worth your while consulting with the people at NPU(Na Piobaire Uilleann) in Dublin Email: [e-mail] (Liam McNulty) who run the 'Mother Ship' when it comes to pipes, piping and pipers the world over. Good luck with learning to master the Hives of Honeyed Sound and rem. what Seamus Ennis said that it taked "21 years to master the uilleann pipes. 7 to learn, 7 to practice and 7 to play" PJ Curtis.

Subject: RE: Help: Uillean Pipe Question
From: InOBU
Date: 16 Apr 01 - 07:52 AM

Chris: There is only one person I would recomend to buy pipes from. Seth Gallagher, of Cold Spring New York. He has a web site, and is one of the only people who trained as an instrument maker. His sets are now played by some of the best pipers going, for example, Gerry O'Sullivan, and the extrodinary piper from the band Sorcha DOrcha, whoes name escapes me, perhapes some one can remind me... Pakistani pipes suck suck and suck. Tim Britton has been refitting them, but after that they still suck. Tim is a lovely chap, but buy your pipes from Seth or get your head examined after...
Good luck, Larry Otway

Subject: RE: Help: Uillean Pipe Question
From: alison
Date: 16 Apr 01 - 07:58 AM

I remember that piper from Sorcha Dorcha......... now what was his name?????? ah yes......... it was InOBU.... and he sounds great..... *grin*

slainte

alison

Subject: RE: Help: Uillean Pipe Question
From: gnu
Date: 16 Apr 01 - 08:24 AM

Don't know if this is of interest to you, but I received this response on 010301 from a pipe maker in NF....

Hello, Thanks for the wee note. The best bet is to start with a practice set. $725.00, cocobolo wood, leather bag. A $250.00 deposit required to confirm the order Shipping extra, inquire at completion. Waiting time may vary due to material supply and work load. No refunds after 30 days of the initial receipt of the initial deposit. The waiting time at present (mar/1/01) is about 15 months, approximately, sorry! Keep in touch. Neil [e-mail] http://home.thezone.net/~pipes

Subject: RE: Help: Uillean Pipe Question
From: Roger in Sheffield
Date: 16 Apr 01 - 12:47 PM

Lots of Seth links turn up with goggle. Nice pictures almost want one of those dead animals under my arm !!
www.uilleann.com easy to remember more dificult to spell

Subject: RE: Help: Uillean Pipe Question
From: Big Mick
Date: 16 Apr 01 - 12:57 PM

Larry, I just visited Seth Gallagher's website. Absolutely brilliant. Thanks for pointing it out. To vist it, CLICK HERE .

Mick

Subject: RE: Help: Uillean Pipe Question
From: GUEST,Richard Cook
Date: 16 Apr 01 - 09:34 PM

Ditto the advise to avoid Paki pipes, no matter what someone trying to sell them says, and ditto the kudos to Seth Gallagher. A good maker with less wait time is B C (Bruce) Childress, but Seth is really tops. Charles Roberts in County Sligo has also a small wait, and pretty good stuff. Also, to begin with get a "concert-pitch" set, which in uilleann lingo means D. "Flat sets" in C#, C, B, and Bb are lovely but not nearly as useful for session work. Start out with the "practise set", which is not like a Scottish practise chanter, but the actual instrument but lacking the main stock, drones, and regulators. If you decide to give it up, you can readily sell a practise set in 5 seconds on Ebay, if nothing else. For learning check out the intructional videos made by Na Piobairi Uilleann. Good luck.

Subject: RE: Help: Uillean Pipe Question
From: GUEST,Bardford
Date: 16 Apr 01 - 11:08 PM

PJ Curtis,
If you're the same fellow that wrote "Notes From the Heart" which I read not three days ago, I'd like to thank you for it. You gave a landlocked Canuck a well drawn picture of Irish music. If you are not the PJ Curtis I'm thinking of, thanks to you for the reminder that some things do take time.

Cheers, Bardford

Subject: RE: Help: Uillean Pipe Question
From: Margaret V
Date: 16 Apr 01 - 11:26 PM

Another thing about Seth is that he's a really nice guy! He lives up the street from me. Margaret

Subject: RE: Help: Uillean Pipe Question
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 17 Apr 01 - 06:29 AM

If you're going to start on a whistle first, try to make it a low D, if you can afford it, which will let you practise piper fingering (fingers straight, covering the holes with the flat undersides,rather than with the tips). And whether it's a low D or anything else, try to get used to playing with an uninterupted airflow. which is pretty well what you're stuck with on the pipes. Dispensing with your tongue as a weapon in the armoury forces you to break up repeated notes with ornamentation.

But wherever/however you start, it's definitely best to have learnt the tunes first on any other instrument. Learning the pipes is bad enough without having to learn the tunes at the same time.

I agree with what most other people have said here, but keep in mind that buying second-hand will get rid of the wait. Hunt the web and you'll find a few sets on the market. And Seth may be good, but there are plenty of good sets around that were made long before he arrived on the scene. Alphonus Kennedy of Cork (the dad, not the son!) made truly concert-standard sets for instance, as played by Finbar Furey among others. If you buy second-hand, I'd be inclined to go for a full set first off, as it sounds like you could afford to. That way you know everything fits together OK. You'll always find another buyer if the pipes defeat you.

It will be a big advantage if you can get some tuition in maintaining the reeds, or better still, live near an expert. Otherwise a reed failing can put you out of commission for a while.

Subject: RE: Help: Uillean Pipe Question
From: GUEST,PJ Curtis.
Date: 17 Apr 01 - 01:20 PM

Bradford, I have to come clean and admit I did write the book 'Notes From The Heart'. Thanks for your kind words re. that. Can I ask where you bought it? It never got sold outside Ireland..and very few in Ireland truly care about the history of Irish Music...inc. the history of Uilleann pipe and pipering. I also meant to mention to Chris(above) to seek out an album I produced two years back featuring the cream of young pipers(six musicians....all still in their teens). It's titled 'A New Dawn' and issued by the N.P.U. These kids are just stunning players. PJ Curtis

Subject: RE: Help: Uillean Pipe Question
From: GUEST,Bill
Date: 17 Apr 01 - 02:34 PM

ChrisHall -

You ought to contact Rocky Mountain Highland Supply. You may not need to wait a year or whatever for custom built pipes, unless or until you're perhaps a Grade II piper. Rocky Mountain Highland Supply carries Hardies, Shepards, Kintails, and Dunbars. Frank and Penny Alderson are great to work with - good folks. Contact them at:

4421 Serra Place, Lincoln, Nebraska 68516 Toll-Free 800-282-9351 or [phone]

www.rmhs.com

If they don't have what you seek, they have an extensive network of pipers throughout the US and Canada they can contact.

Second contact:

Western US Pipe Band Association (WUSPBA). Their homepage is (was last)at http://www.sonic.net/~jcreager/WUSPBA/

This offers contacts with the pipe majors of dozens of bands, who may have knowledge of a set of pipes for sale.

Third contact:

The Balmoral School of Piping and Drumming 1414 Pennsylvania Avenue, Pittsburgh, PA 15233

Voice [phone] Fax [phone]

htt;://users.aol.com/bagpiping

The staff members I'm familiar with include Jimmy McIntosh, Mike Cusak, and Maureen Connor, among others, and these are a great bunch to work with. Jimmy McIntosh sells a wide variety of older pipes, primarily to collectors and experts. He knows of other dealers as well. They also have extensive contacts through which to seek your own set of pipes.

Good luck.

Subject: RE: Help: Uillean Pipe Question
From: Bardford
Date: 17 Apr 01 - 02:56 PM

PJ, Nice to meet you. I'm not a piper, but was drawn to this thread for some reason. I picked up the book last Saturday from a used book shop here in Calgary. There is a small sticker on the cover indicating it was originally sold through a very good, but sadly now defunct independant seller here called Sandpiper Books. (A bookstore, BTW, which, despite its name, was in no way confined to books about pipers.)

I had an image in mind whilst reading the book of the author in front of a large chart, mapping out the connections-musical, temporal and geographical- of the people mentioned in the book. I was impressed by what must have been a great deal of research, and I'm always captivated by the anecdotal record as well.

I hope you stick around the Mudcat and share some more of your knowledge and experiences with us.
Cheers, Bardford
Incidentally, PJ, what's your feeling about used book stores? This is the first time I've had to confess to a writer that his book was purchased, um, outside the revenue-to-author stream. I feel like I've been caught, and should remit some form of restitution.

Subject: RE: Help: Uillean Pipe Question
From: GUEST,PJ Curtis.(The Burren, Ireland)
Date: 17 Apr 01 - 06:54 PM

Brandford, Ive no problem with 2-hnd stores...better than my attic ( which is laden down with 'em!) and its great to know that the book has found its way to calgary. I do a world music radio prog you might be interested in check below. http://www.lyricfm.ie/frames_schedule.html

(Please excuse the thread drift folks) Chris, if you're still with us...Davy Spillane makes pipes...check out his www. PJ

Subject: RE: Help: Uillean Pipe Question
From: InOBU
Date: 17 Apr 01 - 08:12 PM

BUY SETHS PIPES! You are making an investment for life, and the waiting time is worth it, as once you get your practice set, it will take you the year waiting to be ready for the drones, and so on and so on... DON'T SKIMP! GO WITH THE BEST!!!! (PS Margret V Tell Seth I'm pluggin him, your right, he is a terrific fellow!)
Larry

Subject: RE: Help: Uillean Pipe Question
From: Big Mick
Date: 17 Apr 01 - 08:58 PM

Fellow Mudcatters, in case you aren't aware of it, PJ Curtis is an amazing producer of Irish music. I have said before and will say again, his work with Sean Tyrell and Davey Spillane is beyond compare.

PJ, I thought I understood you to say that you have copies of the book in your attic. I am VERY interested in obtaining a copy. Would you email me at [e-mail] if you are interested in selling a copy? I would be very grateful.

All the best,

Mick

Subject: RE: Help: Uillean Pipe Question
From: Big Mick
Date: 17 Apr 01 - 09:10 PM

Larry................I love ya.................you know I do, my brother.........but there are a number of fine pipemakers in this country. Quinn/Kohler come to mind immediately. Seth makes a wonderful instrument, the equal of any sets being made in the world today. But there are a number of makers who make just as good a pipe. In fact, I am shocked that he only has a 12 to 18 month wait. Quinn/Kohler are 3 years. There are a number of others. And that is just in this country. I would advise you to take your time, Chris. Investigate carefully. If Davey Spillane is making pipes again (he served a full apprenticeship), you can bet that they will be excellent. And Seth Gallagher is a world class pipebuilder, as good as any out there.

Subject: RE: Help: Uillean Pipe Question
From: ChrisHall
Date: 18 Apr 01 - 01:34 AM

Hi.

I just wanted to thank everyone for their comments. They have given me a nice breadth of opinions on sources and best methods for learning. I have been wailing away on the whistle for some time now, fitting it in between playing the old guitar and think it might be quite the adventure to try to tackle the pipes.

Thanks Again...

Chris Hall

Subject: RE: Help: Uillean Pipe Question
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 20 Apr 01 - 08:24 PM

PJ Curtis, just in case you come back to this thread, Like Big Mick,I'd love one of those books from your attic, at the going rate of course. My email is [e-mail].