Lyr Req: 3rd verse of Danny Boy?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 3rd verse of Danny Boy?
From: Snuffy
Date: 04 Nov 14 - 09:52 AM

Goethe doggerel??? Well, no and yes (perhaps) in that order.

Friedrich Schiller wrote the poem An die Freude (To Joy) in 1785 as a "celebration of the brotherhood of man".[3] In later life, the poet was contemptuous of this popularity and dismissed the poem as typical of "the bad taste of the age" in which it had been written.[4] After Schiller's death, the poem provided the words for the choral movement of Ludwig van Beethoven's 9th Symphony. [Wikipedia]

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 3rd verse of Danny Boy?
From: GUEST,Rahere
Date: 27 Oct 14 - 10:58 AM

There really should be some kind of prize for the worst National Anthem, surely? My current #1 is, of course, the European Anthem, a piece of Goethe doggerell of the lowest standards! It utterly spoils Beethoven's reputation for me: I can hear something sublime of his and the that damned thing pops up. I then have to reinnoculate myself with the memory of the Berlin 1989 concert, when Bernstein replaced Freude (Joy - as in Kraft Durch Freude, which sent so many thousands of German schoolkids to their deaths in 1945) with Freiheit - Freedom, on the fall of the Iron Curtain.

Any operation which has to resort to that kind of ersatz gemutlichkeit to mask their real intent deserves to be slammed. At least I now have the image of the Tuam killing field attached to The Fields of Athenry, as it's on the Athenry Road, to put it into context. They all universally only deal with one side of the story, and so are immoral: at least the UK's says it straight in the usually suppressed version, "Rebellious Scots to crush!", "Confound their politicks"... but then it does also "Lord make the nations see, That men should brothers be, And form one family, The wide world over." which is also usually suppressed. Says something about the editors, surely!

I went through a phase of similar repugnance with most of the rest of the hymnary, as well, as it's too often used to suppress individual reflection and hammer the pew-fodder into dogmatic conformity. But then again, that's the entire purpose of organised religion, surely, which lies at the root of this nationalism: it's the organisation which is being driven and not the individual's creed. It's a short-cut to mob psychology and militarism. At least there are some pieces which ride alongside my meditation without intrusion, variants on drones and bell/bowl harmonics. Ah well...

My general point is that we should all be rather allergic to any kind of agenda. The great value of folk music is we're not kowtowing to a commercial lobby, nor mostly to anything of massive current political relevance, and what there is is in general antithetical to the big guns.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 3rd verse of Danny Boy?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Oct 14 - 09:48 AM

"Moby Dick"
1956 - must be older than I thought I was!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 3rd verse of Danny Boy?
From: MartinRyan
Date: 27 Oct 14 - 08:38 AM

Incidentally, the Bradbury story rang a vague bell... I think he was in Ireland as a scriptwriter on "Moby Dick"?

Regards

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 3rd verse of Danny Boy?
From: MartinRyan
Date: 27 Oct 14 - 08:34 AM

The National Anthem Race on a Saturday night was really only a training gallop for the escape at the end of Sunday Mass... As soon as the priest gave his blessing, you were entitled to leave without putting your immortal soul in danger by committing mortal sin!

Regards

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 3rd verse of Danny Boy?
From: GUEST,#
Date: 27 Oct 14 - 08:33 AM

http://www.goodreads.com/author_blog_posts/6350700-danny-boy-by-david-osmond

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 3rd verse of Danny Boy?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Oct 14 - 08:27 AM

"Amhrán na bhFiann" in Irish.
For any fans of Science Fantasy writer, Ray Bradbury.
He either lived in Dublin for a short time, or was on an extended visit there - probably some time in the early 1960s
He wrote a cycle of non-fantasy short stories based there, the one that springs to mind is 'The Beggar on the Halfpenny Bridge".
The most memorable of them was 'The Great National Anthem Race', describing the art of leaving the Dublin cinemas just before the National Anthem strikes up.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 3rd verse of Danny Boy?
From: MartinRyan
Date: 27 Oct 14 - 08:11 AM

Nice to see again another example of the late Malcolm's common sense!

The Irish National Anthem, incidentally, is "Amhrán na bhFiann" in Irish.

Regards

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 3rd verse of Danny Boy?
From: Joan from Wigan
Date: 27 Oct 14 - 07:44 AM

The third verse as I gave it above was given to me in writing, not heard and partially remembered by me (of course, I don't know if the person who gave it to me had heard and only partially remembered it, although he was a usually reliable source of lyrics, so I'd be surprised if that were the case). I still have no idea of its author.

I've revisited the song recently, having seen parallels between the Irish situation at that time and the current situation in Palestine, and have re-written some of the words to reflect that (both Weatherly's and the anonymous third verse). The folk process continues...

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 3rd verse of Danny Boy?
From: SharonA
Date: 11 Jul 07 - 01:29 AM

I've looked at the Google hits, and so far it seems to be used only as a contrived rhyme for Ireland. All the poems and songs I'm finding seem to have been penned in the late 1800s to early 1900s. Here's yet another example: Sir Turlough (see second paragraph on page)

I can see why it's not in common usage, though. After all, if the Fatherland is the Sireland, that would make the Motherland the.....







(You don't really need me to finish that sentence, do you?)









(Well, okay, just in case anybody hasn't gotten it yet...)







.....the Damland, which of course is a homophone of Damn Land.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 3rd verse of Danny Boy?
From: Genie
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 01:19 AM

OK, OK, I give up.   Maybe I'm just not familiar with the term "sireland." LOL

But, one question:

Is the term "sireland" in common usage -- or was it ever -- outside the context of songs or poems where it's rhymed with "Ireland" or was it pretty much a term made up for the rhyme?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 3rd verse of Danny Boy?
From: Edmond
Date: 09 Jul 07 - 11:24 AM

"Soldiers are we whose lives are pledged to Ireland.
Some have come from a land beyond the waves -
Sworn to be Free. No more our native Sireland
Shall shelter the despot or the slave . . . "

This was translated intop Irish as Amhrann na bhFianna (I think, but apologies if I am wrong - I am no Irish scholar !)_ which remains the National Anthem.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 3rd verse of Danny Boy?
From: Edmond
Date: 09 Jul 07 - 11:21 AM

Christ on a bike, weren't two verses enough and more than enough ?

As to the crits on rhyming 'Ireland' and 'Sireland', the ghost of Peadar Kearney must be rattling its chains.

Author of 'The Soldier's Song', the Irish National Anthem, Kearney wrote :

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 3rd verse of Danny Boy?
From: Genie
Date: 09 Jul 07 - 03:48 AM

OK, Sharon,
Henry Blossom and Frank Higgerty notwithstanding, I still think "Ireland/Sireland" is a corny rhyme!

Of course, many songs from the early 20th C. have rhymes I think are corny. LOL

Genie

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 3rd verse of Danny Boy?
From: SharonA
Date: 09 Jul 07 - 01:23 AM

Then there's also...

"Dawn on the Irish Coast", a poem by John Locke. a href="thread.cfm?threadid=9739&messages=6">See this Mudcat thread.

"Ireland, My Sireland", a song from the romantic comic opera "Eileen" (1917), music by Victor Herbert, lyrics by Henry Blossom.

A poem by Frank Higgerty, a passenger aboard the RMS Leinster (which was torpedoed and sunk on October 10, 1918 while on its way to Wales from Ireland), also contains the phrase "Ireland my Sireland". Leinster info here

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 3rd verse of Danny Boy?
From: SharonA
Date: 09 Jul 07 - 12:49 AM

FYI "sire land" also appears as a gawdawful, contrived rhyme for "Ireland" in verse 1 of the English translation of "Amhrán na bhFiann", a.k.a. the national anthem of the Republic of Ireland. See the Wikipedia page here.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 3rd verse of Danny Boy?
From: Genie
Date: 08 Jul 07 - 08:07 PM

Joan, I like your third verse better than the other one posted here.

I have to say, coupling "Ireland" with "Sireland" has got to be one of the most gawdawful, contrived rhymes I've even encountered.   (Unless, of course, "sireland" really is a word in common usage in come regions at some times. I've never heard that word before, even though it obviously is a synonym for "fatherland.)

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 3rd verse of Danny Boy?
From: goatfell
Date: 08 Jul 07 - 09:11 AM

it's a great song I like it

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 3rd verse of Danny Boy?
From: Joybell
Date: 08 Jul 07 - 08:19 AM

Against my better judgement I took a look here. That's not half bad Peter. Thank you. Makes my heart glad. Worth the look. Missed it first time around.
Cheers, Joy

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 3rd verse of Danny Boy?
From: An Buachaill Caol Dubh
Date: 07 Jul 07 - 11:12 AM

I came to this thread from a more recent one; the "third verse" (definitely not by Weatherley, and giving the song a patriotic slant which his does not have) which I read is very similar to that given by Pseudolus (and has a last line which both rhymes and connects the verse neatly to the second of Weatherley's):

"But should I live, and should you die for Ireland,
Let not your dying thoughts be all of me;         [yes, honestly]
But ?say/?breathe a prayer to God for our dear sireland
That He may hear and help to set her free.       [how, exactly?]
And I shall take your pike and sword, my dearest [a bit archaic]
And strike a blow, tho' weak that blow may be,
To help the Cause to which your heart was nearest [very grammatical]
And you will sleep in peace until I come to thee."

The version given by Joan of Wigan seems to be based upon this one (perhaps simply partially remembered from one hearing?);the rhyme-scheme is simpler, in that only the second and fourth rhyme, but at least it avoids that too-predictable "Ireland"/"sireland" one.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 3rd verse of Danny Boy?
From: Joan from Wigan
Date: 19 Apr 01 - 03:25 PM

I was given a slightly different third verse in the late 60s:

But should it be in battle strife that I am slain
Don't let your dying prayer be all for me
But say a prayer to God for our dear country
That He may hear and surely set her free
And I shall hear and pray with you my dearie
And I'll strike a blow, yet weak that blow may be
To help our cause, our hearts' desire, my dearie, And we shall rest in peace when Ireland is free

I wasn't told where the verse came from, or who wrote it, but I'd be glad of the info if anyone does know. I didn't sing that verse at the time, as that was the thick of the most recent troubles, but I have been singing it lately and a number of people have been asking for the words.

Joan

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 3rd verse of Danny Boy?
From: Peter T.
Date: 19 Apr 01 - 11:07 AM

Yuucccchhh. Bad idea all round. I await the 3rd Irish verse of "Streets of Laredo" --

"As we were all standing and mourning our cowboy,
He rose from the grave, and he brushed off his hat
Saying, I'm off to Kilkenny to belabour the British,
And Ireland will be free, and that will be that!"

I can see a whole new industry....

yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 3rd verse of Danny Boy?
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 19 Apr 01 - 10:48 AM

Oh, because it's sentimental, and vague enough for people to read their own meanings into it, which are then passed on as received wisdom; to the extent that people then actually re-write the thing in order to make it into what they imagine it must have been meant to be about in the first place!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 3rd verse of Danny Boy?
From: radriano
Date: 19 Apr 01 - 10:38 AM

I've never understood why "Danny Boy" gained such popularity. There's a much better set of words to the "Londonderry Air" in Sam Henry's Songs of the People - I believe it's called "Londonderry Air" and I think it was posted in the earlier thread on Danny Boy.

Richard

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 3rd verse of Danny Boy?
From: Jolly Beggar
Date: 19 Apr 01 - 10:25 AM

I was hoping there wasn't one!

JB

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 3rd verse of Danny Boy?
From: Pseudolus
Date: 19 Apr 01 - 09:44 AM

I have these written down at home (I'm at work now) so I'll re-post if I've gotten them wrong but this is the third verse as I sing it. I'm not sure of the last line. It doesn't even come close to rhyming and I'm pretty sure it's supposed to. I'll correct it later if someone doesn't do it for me before I get to it.... :)

But should I live, and should you die for Ireland
Let not your dying thoughts be just of me
But say a prayer to God for our Sireland
So he may hear and help us set her free.

And I will stand and take your place my dearest
And strike a blow, though weak that blow may be
To help God's cause to which your heart is nearest
Oh Danny boy, oh Danny boy, I love you so.

It's my understanding that these lyrics are intended to be sung not by the father but in fact by the mother to her son going off to fight for the cause. Interesting....

Frank

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 3rd verse of Danny Boy?
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 19 Apr 01 - 09:32 AM

Links to most of the numerous "Danny Boy" discussions here are given at:  History of the song Danny Boy

That extra verse is a recent addition, made by somebody who wanted the song to be about Ireland, rather than what, historically, it is: an English song set (at the second attempt!) to an Irish melody, and apparantly with no particular country in mind, though the references to "pipes" and "glens" are typical of the tendency to use romantic Scottish backdrops in popular songs of the time.

Malcolm

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 3rd verse of Danny Boy?
From: alison
Date: 19 Apr 01 - 09:24 AM

thanks Ian I had a quick squiz round... but only this thread had anything that came close but incomplete...........

slainte

alison

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 3rd verse of Danny Boy?
From: IanC
Date: 19 Apr 01 - 09:11 AM

Alison

I think there's a whole lot of stuff about this in earlier threads. Just put "Danny Boy" ...

Cheers!
Ian

Subject: 3rd verse of Danny Boy?
From: alison
Date: 19 Apr 01 - 09:03 AM

just heard Sinead O'Connor murdering Danny Boy.... (doesn't everyone??!!!)

but there was a 3rd verse about dying for Ireland and "the cause".......

anyone know it???

slainte

alison