How do I do a sound check?

Subject: How do I do a sound check?
From: Marion
Date: 30 Apr 01 - 01:17 PM

Hello all. In a few days I will be playing a set in a pub which is an open audition for a chance to play in my town's folk festival.

Normally when I play with a microphone I just close my eyes and trust the sound guy. But since I really want to get this festival gig, I want to look more professional than I really am.

How is a performer supposed to be involved with the sound guy's work, before and during the set?

I will be singing and playing an acoustic guitar that doesn't have a pickup. A few songs I will play with bare fingers and a few with a flatpick, so there will be some variability in the guitar's volume.

Thanks, Marion

Subject: RE: How do I do a sound check?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 30 Apr 01 - 01:27 PM

If there's gonna be a sound guy, put yourself in his hands... Tell him that yer new and a little unsure of what to do, and he'll be more than happy to 'instruct' you I'm sure...

But also, don't be afraid of speaking up if you're concerned that something isn't right, like the monitors are too loud or something...

;-)

Subject: RE: How do I do a sound check?
From: Naemanson
Date: 30 Apr 01 - 01:31 PM

When I run the sound board I regularly ask the performer if he wants to do a sound check. I like to do them because it gives me a feel for the changes in sound between the various instruments people like to play and the interplay between the instruments and the voice.

Just ask the sound person if you could do a sound check and then quickly play a few bars from a few pieces the demonstrate the variety s/he can expect. The sound check shouldn't take very long at all with a good sound tech and a compliant performer.

Subject: RE: How do I do a sound check?
From: Bernard
Date: 30 Apr 01 - 03:00 PM

The most important thing is to remember to project exactly as you would acoustically.

As a sound engineer, I find the biggest problem with performers inexperienced with PA use is their misconception that the PA will make them sound good just because it's there.

Unfortunately, it's 'garbage in, garbage out' - if you don't sound good without a PA, you are going to sound pretty mediochre with one.

Find out from your sound man whether you are using a 'close vocal' mic - if you are, you mustn't be more than two inches from the head, or it will sound very 'thin'.

If, on the other hand, you are using a 'general purpose' mic, getting too close may make it 'pop' with explosive consonants such as 'p' and 'b' - your sound man will tell you the best distance.

If you are using a microphone to pick up your guitar, don't let it point straight down the sound hole! Not only will it sound 'boomy', but feedback will occur unpredictably.

'Feedback' or 'howl round' is caused by the microphone 'hearing' itself from the loudspeakers, and the music goes round and round...

The sound box of a guitar accentuates the problem, so point the microphone at the woodwork near the soundhole.

If you can't speak to the sound man, speak to other performers who know what to expect from the system. I've been on festival stages (as a performer) where there has been no sound check, but the sound man is usually experienced enough to cope - or learns quickly!!

The company I work for used to do the Royal National Eisteddfod of Wales (the one that moves around the country), and I learned the art of getting it right without a sound check the hard way!! The main pavilion seated over 5000 people... that was when I learned that adrenalin is brown...

Good luck - it's going to be easier than you think!!

Subject: RE: How do I do a sound check?
From: gnu
Date: 30 Apr 01 - 03:11 PM

Bernard... brown adrenalin... priceless... LOL !!

I asked the sound guy on Friday night last why I couldn't hear my Bodhran very well. I know nothing about mics (yet !). He told me I was sitting too close to it and to try sitting at least two arm lengths away. Everyone's a comedian.

Subject: RE: How do I do a sound check?
From: gnu
Date: 30 Apr 01 - 03:16 PM

Oops ! When everyone laughed and I looked confused, I was informed that he meant I was to sit two arm lengths away from the Hran.

Subject: RE: How do I do a sound check?
From: GUEST,Claire
Date: 30 Apr 01 - 03:29 PM

Hi Marion,

I run across this type of problem all the time. I am a vocalist with a band and I play drum, so I can't help you much on guitar, but these are my suggestions.

If possible find out the name of the person working the board. This is very useful, if you need an adjustment while your performing. It prevents you from having to say "Hey, sound guy" If possible, tell him the range of your playing style if there is a moment.

If your using their mics, look to see what they are, probably SM 57's or 58s, which don't have a lot of tracking ability off center. This means you will have to be right on the mic, singing straight on it. (* I have a lot to learn about mics, maybe you know more than me on this... it makes a big difference though. I am sure someone out there could give us an earful!)

OK, your ready to check. I suggest checking the vocal first, the guitar 2nd, and then the mix 3rd. Don't speak into the mic to do the check, sing. I always use the same song, which is not useually included in the gig material but shows my range and the tone of my voice. Probably, you should do something similar for the guitar. Don't just strum it, play as you would in performance.

As far as nerves go... I think it is helpful to have material to do for the sound check. If you go into performance mode just a bit, it will boost your confidence. Also, you often do a sound check in front of an audience (expecially at festivals) and it is good to start building your stage rapor as soon as possible.

One comment to Bernard. Yes sound equipment won't make the performer sound better, but it sure can make the performer sound worse. I can't count the times I've been jamming on stage, only to get off and find out that... oh nobody could hear you on the third tune... etc. It is really frustrating!

Festivals are really hard gigs. I am in one this weekend and no matter how good you can be in a gig, it always seems like an uphill battle at a festival. You have very little time, there are outdoor wind and sun conditions to deal with, the sound check is miniscule, the sound equipment can be questionable. BUT, they are wonderful,spirited events, and in many ways a wonderful opportunity to reach an audience that you normally wouldn't get to reach.

Good luck, hope this is helpful.

Claire

Subject: RE: How do I do a sound check?
From: Bernard
Date: 30 Apr 01 - 04:46 PM

Claire - right on the button!

A lousy sound 'person' will make you sound worse!

Just hope that you are at least 'third on' - and watch watch happens to the others! If he/she seems a bit slow to get a good balance, do a 'preamble' before your first song - talk a bit to the audience, plink around on your guitar - something to give ol' slowcoach time to find out where you are on the desk!!

As for the two mics mentioned - the SM58 is a 'close vocal' mic, the SM57 will 'pop' unless you are at least four inches away (it's rare to see one with a 'pop' shield - foam rubber 'sock').

As a general rule, close vocal mics have a large-ish 'top basket' of wire mesh, or a 'pop' shield (I've even seen both at once!!).

BTW, my 'pet hate' at the moment is seeing pop videos with nitwits using the old Shure 55 (the 'Elvis' mic - a big aluminium classic) tipped forward, and singing into the top of it!! It should be tipped away from the performer, and you sing into the 'front' of it!!

I doubt that you'll be expected to use one of those, though! The originals are collectors items, even more so because Shure Brothers 're-introduced' it as a 'retro' mic, but it is only visually similar...

But I digress (as usual!!)...

Subject: RE: How do I do a sound check?
From: Bernard
Date: 30 Apr 01 - 04:52 PM

Shure website...

Subject: RE: How do I do a sound check?
From: Bernard
Date: 30 Apr 01 - 04:56 PM

Shure 55SH...

Subject: RE: How do I do a sound check?
From: RichM
Date: 30 Apr 01 - 05:03 PM

Mildly off topic, a friend and former bandmate bought a new Shure 55, thinking we could do the 3 singers-on-one-mic-trick,alas as you say it's a fake mic, with the innards of a shure 58!.

We finally did get a mic for the one-mic approach: an AudioTechnica 4033. Used with a Boss feedback eliminator, it can be made really HOT to pick up vocals and instruments from 18 inches to 3 or more feet away. That's all we use for 3 voices, guitar, mandolin, fiddle and whatever--except for my upright bass which goes into a separate channel. Cool gear! We are doing a couple of festivals this summer; it would be nice if the sound people are familiar enough with the concept to let us use it!

Rich McCarthy

Subject: RE: How do I do a sound check?
From: GUEST,UB Dan
Date: 30 Apr 01 - 05:08 PM

As the others have previously alluded, make sure that you are doing the sound check at the same volume level at which you would perform. Most people have the habit of whispering "1,2,3" into the mike while pressing their mouth up against it for the mike check, then when they go to start a song, they lean back a little and start singing much louder...their proximity and volume are vastly different and it makes the sound check totally useless. If you have a volume knob and built in electronics on your guitar, make sure the volume is turned up to between 1/2 and 3/4...this will send a strong enough signal to the board, but also allow you a little bit of room to turn up or down in relation to your voice. It is very important to find out if the monitor mix is the same as the house mix or if they are different. IF they are different you may end up wrecking the house mix if you change any instument volumes (including just singing louder)...instead, ask the sound guy to turn up the volume in the monitor mix. If both mixes are the same, then be sure to pay some attention to what it sounds like because everyone else is hearing the same thing...

Will there be a sound guy or are you doing this yourself?

Subject: RE: How do I do a sound check?
From: Bernard
Date: 30 Apr 01 - 05:59 PM

Word of warning!!

Anyone who has a volume control on their guitar (or whatever!!?) - if you are working with a sound man, set it with the sound man's help, then leave the bloody thing alone!!

A sound desk (in simple terms) has a gain control and a volume control for each input channel. Once the channel gain is set up to your instrument, turning the instrument volume up can cause serious distortion problems! In-built transducers 'quack' at the best of times - don't add to the problems!!

If you are in conflict with the sound man, he will just say 'sod you!' and leave you to it. Don't muck him about!

I've been privileged to work with legends - Tom Paxton, Martin Carthy, Spike Milligan, Norman Wisdom, Des O'Connor, the Dakotas, Rainbow (Bungle, George, Zippy and Geoffrey!!)... - not relevant to much, okay, just an excuse to name drop! What the hell?!!

Subject: RE: How do I do a sound check?
From: GUEST,Claymore
Date: 30 Apr 01 - 06:10 PM

It would be a good idea to know in advance whether they're doing festival sound ("Go to the blue mike; I'll catch you on the fly"- i.e. We have no time to set you; go with a song that gradually introduces all of your effects and volume. DO NOT lay the wood to the mike by coming on with your Howling Wolf troop-and-stomp number; I will adjust as we go") or concert sound (proper sound check).

If it's a proper sound check, the sound guy will probably ask you for your loudest song, including any percussive effects on the guitar, etc. At that point, he'll be "setting the levels." He may also ask for your normal speaking voice and/or the quieter guitar passages to contrast the two levels to "get gain before feedback". At some point, he should ask for "plosive sounds" (not EX–plosive sounds).

I normally ask performers to repeat words that do bad things to mikes, like SWEET, BUBBLE, TWICE, and POTTED (but local regionalisms apply, and the object is to reduce the impact of these additional unintentional effects on the mike or windscreen. These sounds will cause the mike to "cast out", but I will "EQ" the sound while "Solo-ing the channel" – i.e. isolating your mike from the rest of the mix to improve the sound quality while twiddling all those dials. If he doesn't ask for plosives, use the words up above, instead of "Testing 1 2 3." Or use words with the letters S T V B P Z etc. to allow him to catch on that one of the two of you is not a complete idiot

If you have any speech deficiencies, now is the time to tell the soundman, and, depending on his gear and expertise, he can add balls to a thin voice, or reduce your lisp. A little reverb on the voice sounds good, a lot sounds bad (Start with a "Plate" or "Hall" at 10-20 percent "wet", and have him run it through the monitors so you can hear it a couple of times.

He will be trying to "clear the air" by trying to dump any frequencies below your act, or way above it. He will try and keep some "presence" by retaining most of the stuff up to 12 or 15 k, but will be looking to "notch out" the room for any squeals that may cause feedback. Unless you're the first act, the room should have been "rung out" (looking for ambient sympathetic room frequencies, sometimes called "wolf tones" which can cause feedback) by the time you arrive. If not, that's part of your job, and just follow the instructions of the soundman.

A couple of points on closing, note how the sound guy is placing your mikes, for both voice and guitar. Ask him to show you how the mike stands adjust so you can correct a problem (like a slipping mike) yourself instead of watching it hit the floor. Note if there is an on-off switch on the mike, and LEAVE IT ON. All mikes with switches and not made in Poland, are "on" with the switch towards the head of the mike and "off" with the switch towards the cable end of the mike. Most modern mikes do not have switches, but now that the Soviet Union has dissolved, anything can happen.

Voice- If you are too "breathy", he'll going to aim it towards your nose, but positioned under your chin, so that you are not singing directly into the long axis of the mike, just across the angled top of it. If he wants some Elvis-type balls in your voice, he'll going to work you close to the mike, if not, he'll move you back about 2-3 inches (That's if he's using a dynamic mike which produces a "proximity bass effect" when used close, as in "Thunk yu vury much").

Guitar- DO NOT POINT THE MIKE TOWARDS THE HOLE IN YOUR GUITAR! Angle it from below up at a 45 degree angle up and 15 degrees toward the guitar neck to the spot between where the fretboard meets the hole and where the fretboard meets the edge of the guitar; (think 18th fret on acoustic guitar) Check to make sure you won't hit the mike when you are really wailing on the axe.

Make sure that if you play and sing at the same time, the guitar mike and the voice mike are placed so that optimum sound is achieved from one position, AND THEN STAY IN THAT POSITION. Tape your mark if necessary, but insure that both voice mike and guitar mike are in position before you start your song. Tape your play list down with the added words "2 INCHES," – the distance that you should be from the mike, "PROJECT," - as in project your voice witout straining, and "SAME PLACE," - for both guitar and mouth. If you do that consistently, the soundman can correct for almost anything else.

This post has taken a bit of the day to do, and others will no doubt chime in with additional advice. If you see it repeated several times, move it up your belief meter, 'cause somebody "got the suck button pressed" when they didn't listen. Good Luck!

Subject: RE: How do I do a sound check?
From: GUEST,UB Dan
Date: 01 May 01 - 12:05 PM

Nice advise Claymore...very instructive

Subject: RE: How do I do a sound check?
From: ChrisHall
Date: 01 May 01 - 03:15 PM

Great stuff Claymore...I would like to add one thing though...

I have found that you can change the tone of the miked guitar wildly by moving the spot the mike(s) is aimed at. Depending on the the style of music you are playing you can move it up/down the neck or even behind the soundhole.

On another note, I have seen more musicians using a pickup and mike together. With a good sound guru this should work great...

Cheers Chris Hall

Subject: RE: How do I do a sound check?
From: UB Ed
Date: 02 May 01 - 09:49 AM

Hey UB Dan! Did you pay attention to Bernard's comment???? I'll be happy to remove your volume knob.

Subject: RE: How do I do a sound check?
From: GUEST,Claymore
Date: 02 May 01 - 10:57 AM

Chris, I normally use the pick-up as my monitor feed unless there's an absolute requirement for an ambient mike return. It reduces the chance for feedback (which still exists) and usually only causes a problem when you have percussive effects on the guitar (think Flamenco... damn, I almost wrote Pink Flamenco... what a great name for a Hispanic band from Florida... ).

Anyhoo, I have no problem putting the mike anywhere that makes the guitarist happy, but I've found that for an inexperienced performer, if you put the mikes where they can see them, and give them SIMPLE rules, it workes out well for everybody.

Subject: RE: How do I do a sound check?
From: Marion
Date: 02 May 01 - 11:34 AM

Thank you very much for the advice everybody! Especially the warning not to point the mike at the soundhole - that's I would have wanted to do.

And thanks for the indepth advice, Claymore. I'll be sure to save it and review it for the future when I become more professional than I look.

RichM, what festivals are you playing in? And what's the name of your band?

Marion

Subject: RE: How do I do a sound check?
From: Jeremiah McCaw
Date: 02 May 01 - 12:54 PM

Artisan did the most professional sound check I've ever seen. Granted, being an a capella trio simplifies things somewhat, but coping with instruments wouldn't have delayed them very much at all.

They walked up to our sound man, about 10 feet from him, and said, "This is how we like to sound"; did a verse, and said, "Get our sound close to this, and we'll be very happy, indeed."

Then they went to the stage, saying, "This is the loudest we get" and did a chorus; then said, "This is the quietest we do", and did the appropriate verse. The whole process barely took 5 minutes and the sound was superb.

Subject: RE: How do I do a sound check?
From: Marion
Date: 06 May 01 - 11:45 PM

Well, the audition went fine and I got the festival gig. This may be because they took everyone who auditioned, but it's probably because I asked an intelligent question about the microphone. Thanks, bunch.

Bernard, can you please explain the "adrenalin is brown" bit?

Marion

Subject: RE: How do I do a sound check?
From: Deni
Date: 07 May 01 - 02:09 AM

This is a brilliant thread. We played at a gig the other night and noticed that the performer after us who is normally excellent, had too much treble on his guitar and voice, and too much echo ( he was sitting way back from the mikes.) as someone mentioned earlier. He'd done the sound check standing up close and then sat over at the other side of the stage to perform. If only he'd read this advice.

How do sound engineers take interference from listening performers or audience? Is there an etiquette which prevents you from mentioning the fact that the guy on stage sounds like he's singing down the Channel tunnel?

Subject: RE: How do I do a sound check?
From: GUEST,Claymore
Date: 07 May 01 - 10:50 AM

I've never had a problem with input from performers since they are a major stake-holder in the sound reinforcement process. However there are several points to consider before piping up.

1. Timing is everything; if I'm doing festival sound on the fly, and I'm running a flute call-and-response delay, I going to be damn busy, so leave me a note, or wait for the pause between songs or acts.

2. Be prepared to understand that I can hear too, and there may be nothing I can do about the fact that the above mentioned performer fails to "make his mark".

3. The audience is getting, at best, a happy medium. You will frequently have those twits who sit right next to the speakers, and then want them turned down. Conversly, you will have the late arrivals who want to hear the act in the Mens room. Old geezers, who have lost their top end, want the treble up, while the young diddy-boppers want the bass to make breathing difficult. The greatest skill a sound man has, is the ability to conspicuously move a dial that has absolutely no function, and then look up to the complainant and ask, "Hows that?"

4. And frankly, since I know that women retain their hearing in all frequencies for a longer period of time, and that they are less likely to bring a prejudice to the actual sound, I frequently ask a woman in her late twenties to forties how they like the sound, as I consider them my happy-medium target-audience. (It's also a good way to meet chicks).

5. Finally, there's a technique I've developed over the years, that will give you a whole new way of testing your judgement of the sound. Find a spot in the center-rear of the room, and turn away from the music. Now cup your hands at your ears, with the openings facing back to the sound source; (not unlike a horse listening to something from it's rear). This crosses your left-right brain prejudice, and allows you to compare front-on stereo (even if it's mono sound) with a more detached examination of the sound components. Make your judgement based on the comparisons. Good Luck!