BS: Shamefull threads

Subject: RE: BS: Shamefull threads
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 01 May 01 - 12:42 PM

I'm with Art... This place needs a good moderator with the STONES to step up to the plate and delete the crap that this place attracts like flies... Hiding behind PC whinning about censorship is just stupid and cowardly...

This place is SUPPOSED to be about folk and blues music isn't it?!?!?! Where's the problem with making sure it stays that way?

Subject: RE: BS: Shamefull threads
From: Scabby Douglas
Date: 01 May 01 - 12:24 PM

I don't post that much.

I saw the "Jewish" thread and didn't even open it.

When I saw the "Black" thread I thought : Ah, an attempt to display the stupidity and crassness of this type of humour. I opened it and was apalled.

I won't post there. I understand the inclination to free speech, and the determination not to censor, but this could do serious harm to this site.

SD

Subject: RE: BS: Shamefull threads
From: gnu
Date: 01 May 01 - 12:07 PM

Just posted this on one of THOSE threads........ and I'm not going back to it.

The jokes are neither funny nor in good taste. I didn't even bother to access this thread (nor the Jewish "Jokes" thread - and still haven't) until I read the thread about being ashamed to recommend the Mudcat.

I've always said **** 'em if they can't take a joke, but this type of humour really should be kept in the circles of the small minded. I will ignore these threads and repost this to the Shame thread because the only redeeming value I can see being generated here is that fact that most 'Cats will speak out against these threads. Should they be banned from the 'Cat ? Where do you stop ? Would you ban the recent "Coping with Women" thread ? Gosh.... it never ends, does it ? See you in "Shame".

BTW. GUEST,Honkey.... you are an ***hole

Subject: RE: BS: Shamefull threads
From: wysiwyg
Date: 01 May 01 - 11:54 AM

Double post due to dialup hiccup.

Subject: RE: BS: Shamefull threads
From: Art Thieme
Date: 01 May 01 - 11:52 AM

I have long advocated that the powers that be here should take control of his website like any E-List owner worth half a ruble would do. DELETE the merde like any good maintenance man with a shovel would do following the lephants at the circus. But lately this isn't the main tent. It is the freak show.

Max knows I support him, but this level of acceptance in the name of P.C. is insane.

Art Thieme

Subject: RE: BS: Shamefull threads
From: wysiwyg
Date: 01 May 01 - 11:52 AM

Kat, I join you in your distaste but you know what happens as well as I do when anyone here starts to try to rally everyone to a central point of view of any sort. Some will agree, some will ignore, and some will power up an attack. Maybe folkies tend to be so iconoclastic IRL that we are even braced a bit too much against potential "controls" here at Mudcat, where so few really want to control anyone at all!

And, well... there is a long list of people who have, at one time or another, stated that certain threads were distasteful. And been roundly criticised for having done so. It starts to feel like, "Who's got the hot button today" sometimes-- which thing is gonna bother which person, and who is going ot be bothered that they are bothered, and who is going to be bothered that someone was bothered by.....

It's pretty obvious that the bottom line is, we who are here regularly care about the Mudcat, but maybe most especially about the Mudcat each of us has in our minds at any given point in time.

We also know what does and does not work to deal with such things, but it's funny how hard it is to remember and DO that when we ourselves are the one with the hot button of the day.

Maybe a couple of new strategies can evolve in place of the continual stream of "What Seems Awful Today."

Perhaps a way to register distaste for others to see one's stand would be posting nothing more than the simple frowny emoticon, which presents a much slimmer profile for attacks in response but which sends a message like one sends IRL when one physically moves away from that with which one does not care to be associated.

Another might be that if one wants to recommend Mudcat, one can do it not with a link to the whole site first off, but a link to a specific thread or even a specific message in a thread that one, as an individual, might think the person one is inviting might really enjoy, and which speaks to what one, as an individual, sees as the finest of Mudcat. When someone comes here and falls into a thread like that the first time, something magic happens that, I think, arms them against the awfulness. It makes it easier to see that even on its worst day, the Mudcat is still just about the best place on the Net to be. It makes it easier to see how positively such awfulnesses are handled, instead of just seeing that they are there. Because IRL these things happen but are usually NOT handled well at all.

Another would be the oldest standby in the Mudcat Anti-Crap Book of Tricks-- and that is, start a coupole of new music threads each time one spots a new stinker. Do so many music threads that these shamefull ones fall off the page and slink away...

Pull people to what inspires you, and they will come there with you anytime. I do that once in awhile with an e-mail link to a new thread that looks really good, among Mudcat friends whose interests I know. And it works, every time.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Shamefull threads
From: Peter T.
Date: 01 May 01 - 11:48 AM

I have posted this on the Jewish thread:

I think this thread and the others are a mistake, and inevitably lead to hurt feelings, bad manners, and anger. Justifying it under the notion that humour is somehow a universal healer and we should all be tolerant is perhaps true theoretically, but not in this circumstance. This is the Internet, not your living room, or a small group of your buddies getting together, whatever the ethnic group, and however O.K. it is when you and your group are together. It will be taken badly here. We have no control or ability to signal as a community when people have gone over the line. This kind of thread will inevitably attract grief -- it amounts to what we used to call "coat trailing". It is not censorship if people have the good grace not to get started in what inevitably will cause grief around here.

yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: BS: Shamefull threads
From: GUEST,bbc at work
Date: 01 May 01 - 11:46 AM

People do as they please, kat. Those who start those threads & post to them either don't see them as shameful or don't care. Threads like that killed my love for Mudcat. I still read a few of the threads, but I don't post much & I don't feel an emotional connection anymore. It made me very sad at the time. I still cherish the friends I made at Mudcat in the past.

bbc

Subject: RE: BS: Shamefull threads
From: GUEST,UB Dan
Date: 01 May 01 - 11:42 AM

I'm guessing this is in reference to the joke threads...I think its important to point out that the joke thread started by Cranky Yankee was started with the best intentions and idea...they were Jewish jokes in the same way a story can be Irish folklore...it required a certain understanding of a language and/or culture...to understand the joke, rather than being about a perceived racial stereotype with the cultural group as the opject of ridicule. For example, referencing kosher requirements is not derogatory, but it does require an understanding of what kosher means.

The thread did slip down some, and I think the other "joke" thread was started to show how some of the addditional postings were seen as offensive. The originator of this thread thought that nobody understood that these jokes were offensive and was trying to show that if the exact samne jokes were made about a different 'group' they would immediately be recognized as racist. I think the thread was trying to make a good point in a bad way. The assumptions were that nobody recognized anything wrong with any of the earlier jokes and that everyone who saw the new thread would be familiar with the old thread...

The ironic ending, is that the person who claimed to be the most offended, ended up offending the most people. Far too often I have seen people react far too loudly for their point ever to be heard.

Subject: RE: BS: Shamefull threads
From: KingBrilliant
Date: 01 May 01 - 11:25 AM

I think sometimes its worth registering our distaste rather than ignore it & maybe be taken for compliant. Especially in your cases Patrish & Kat, when you're worried that people you've recommended to might think you approve.
Still - it will pass - most stupidity does.

Kris

Subject: RE: BS: Shamefull threads
From: radriano
Date: 01 May 01 - 11:10 AM

Exactly right - just don't post to the threads and they will die out.

Subject: RE: BS: Shamefull threads
From: GUEST,Sad
Date: 01 May 01 - 11:10 AM

For heaven's sake kat, it was disappointing enough to see you even participating-along with three or four others-in that other revolting thread, let alone admitting that you "enjoyed" the early part of it. Now you start this, which will just call attention to the other(s). Why would you dignify this unpleasantness? Yes I AM sad.

Subject: RE: BS: Shamefull threads
From: Charley Noble
Date: 01 May 01 - 11:04 AM

Attention only encourages them. Ignore, ignore, ignore!

Subject: RE: BS: Shamefull threads
From: GUEST,Matt_R
Date: 01 May 01 - 11:01 AM

It's so hard to face
That in this day and age
Somebody's race could trigger somebody's rage
And somebody's preference
Can drive some total stranger
To make somebody somehow feel the wrath of their anger

Why were we put here? What for? We're unsure.
We sure weren't put here to hate
Be racist, be sexist, be bigots, be sure
We won't stand for your hate!

Now why so cut and dry?
A simple concept missed
Give tolerance a try, this confusion still exists
Ignorant mongers, and "No area's gray"
Couldn't be any wronger in this age and day

Why were we put here? What for? We're unsure.
We sure weren't put here to hate
Be racist, be sexist, be bigots, be sure
We won't stand for your hate!
Get that straight!

Now how far have we come?
How come there still are some
Who won't let some march to the beat of a diffrent drum
To face it, it's so hard
You must be on your guard
It's not okay and you're not free to be a different way

Why were we put here? What for? We're unsure.
We sure weren't put here to hate
Be racist, be sexist, be bigots, be sure
We won't stand for your hate

Let's try to erase it, it's time that we face it
If we don't, then who will? Shame on us
Let's try to erase it, it's time that we face it
Let's face it, the time is upon us
Let's try to erase it, it's time that we face it
If we don't, then who will? Shame on us
Let's try to erase it, it's time that we face it
Let's face it, the time is upon us..

Subject: RE: BS: Shamefull threads
From: katlaughing
Date: 01 May 01 - 10:59 AM

I know, Patrish, that is how I am feeling right now. I am hopeful more will see the good threads and read stories like Shula's in Melting Pot Muddles.

Subject: RE: BS: Shamefull threads
From: Patrish(inactive)
Date: 01 May 01 - 10:58 AM

Kat, I have just recommended the site to a popular radio station here in the UK. I wish I could take back what I said. Anyone looking at some of the threads might get the impression this is a racist site, and by association that I am racist.
Patrish

Subject: Shamefull threads
From: katlaughing
Date: 01 May 01 - 10:46 AM

We do have a few of them right now, don't we? Is this what we want people to see when they first come to the Mudcat? The Mudcat is in my heart and not a day goes by that I don't tell someone about this incredible website and its community. Lately, that has been more difficult to do, and, as of today, I won't be telling anyone, for awhile, to give it a try. I'd be too embarrassed for them to see some of these shameful thread titles, let alone their content.

Let's get back on track and let the good shine through.

kat