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What exactly IS Nottingham Ale?

DigiTrad:
NOTTINGHAM ALE


Related threads:
Lyr/Tune Req: Nottingham Ale (13)
Nottingham Ale (4)


Kim C 02 May 01 - 04:01 PM
MMario 02 May 01 - 04:07 PM
Kim C 02 May 01 - 04:42 PM
Naemanson 02 May 01 - 05:07 PM
The Walrus 02 May 01 - 05:44 PM
Bert 02 May 01 - 06:09 PM
mousethief 02 May 01 - 06:13 PM
Noreen 02 May 01 - 08:40 PM
roopoo 03 May 01 - 02:15 AM
roopoo 03 May 01 - 02:17 AM
sledge 03 May 01 - 03:57 AM
Gervase 03 May 01 - 04:54 AM
Geoff the Duck 03 May 01 - 05:25 AM
Les from Hull 03 May 01 - 05:51 AM
Steve Latimer 03 May 01 - 07:57 AM
KitKat 03 May 01 - 08:00 AM
Fibula Mattock 03 May 01 - 08:30 AM
MMario 03 May 01 - 08:51 AM
MMario 03 May 01 - 09:44 AM
MMario 03 May 01 - 09:48 AM
Malcolm Douglas 03 May 01 - 09:52 AM
sledge 03 May 01 - 10:49 AM
Kim C 03 May 01 - 11:42 AM
Chicken Charlie 03 May 01 - 07:37 PM
Noreen 03 May 01 - 08:34 PM
roopoo 04 May 01 - 02:52 AM
Geoff the Duck 04 May 01 - 06:12 AM
Geoff the Duck 04 May 01 - 06:20 AM
bradfordian 04 May 01 - 08:20 AM
MMario 04 May 01 - 09:02 AM
Les from Hull 04 May 01 - 09:07 AM
Ringer 04 May 01 - 09:13 AM
IanC 04 May 01 - 09:21 AM
Les from Hull 04 May 01 - 09:39 AM
bradfordian 04 May 01 - 10:24 AM
Les from Hull 04 May 01 - 10:41 AM
Les from Hull 04 May 01 - 10:43 AM
GUEST,Sam Hudson of Nottingham 04 May 01 - 07:27 PM
roopoo 05 May 01 - 02:55 AM
ermintrudeclaire 07 May 01 - 04:25 PM
GUEST,CraigS 07 May 01 - 07:28 PM
GUEST 08 May 01 - 01:47 AM
roopoo 08 May 01 - 02:38 AM
Geoff the Duck 08 May 01 - 06:58 AM
GUEST,JohnB 08 May 01 - 12:57 PM
Kim C 08 May 01 - 01:17 PM
GUEST 08 Jun 12 - 11:54 AM
GUEST,Bute Avenue 08 Jun 12 - 12:47 PM
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Subject: What exactly IS Nottingham Ale?
From: Kim C
Date: 02 May 01 - 04:01 PM

I couldn't get Supersearch to cooperate so forgive me if this has been asked before. What exactly is Nottingham Ale? Is it any brew that comes from Nottingham, or is it more specific? And this is a real question, not a smarty-trousers one. :-)


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Subject: RE: What exactly IS Nottingham Ale?
From: MMario
Date: 02 May 01 - 04:07 PM

good question. And while we are at it, how about Banbury Ale? I know that one goes back a few hundred years...


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Subject: RE: What exactly IS Nottingham Ale?
From: Kim C
Date: 02 May 01 - 04:42 PM

I know somebody out there knows. Spill it! ;-)


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Subject: RE: What exactly IS Nottingham Ale?
From: Naemanson
Date: 02 May 01 - 05:07 PM

For gawd's sake, don't SPILL it but please do tell us.

Unless you are drinking Budwieser, then you can pour that straight into the sink.


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Subject: RE: What exactly IS Nottingham Ale?
From: The Walrus
Date: 02 May 01 - 05:44 PM

>"...Unless you are drinking Budwieser, then you can pour that straight into the sink...."

The REAL stuff, from Budwiess/Budovic (apologies for the spelling) is drinkable (if you like lager), it's the Anhauser-Busch muck that gives it a bad name.

To return to the original question, Nottingham Ale is simply ale brewed in the Nottingham region. In the days before brewers spread nationwide and brews became "standardised" the beer of each region (or indeed town or even inn) would be slightly different from its neighbours, family or company recipies would be carefully guarded secrets, in short, imagine an England where almost every drinking establishment was a brewpub.

Good Luck

Walrus


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Subject: RE: What exactly IS Nottingham Ale?
From: Bert
Date: 02 May 01 - 06:09 PM

Walrus, Here's a link


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Subject: RE: What exactly IS Nottingham Ale?
From: mousethief
Date: 02 May 01 - 06:13 PM

imagine an England where almost every drinking establishment was a brewpub.

An England much like Seattle, then?

Alex


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Subject: RE: What exactly IS Nottingham Ale?
From: Noreen
Date: 02 May 01 - 08:40 PM

I'm not trying to be clever here, but is there a musical connection for Nottingham and Banbury ale?


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Subject: RE: What exactly IS Nottingham Ale?
From: roopoo
Date: 03 May 01 - 02:15 AM

Well, speaking as one who learned to drink the stuff 30 years ago in Nottingham...

There is a song by a guy called Dave Brindley called "Nottingham Ale" which sings its praise (it was written a long time ago in the days of the big local breweries). It also alludes to the Trip to Jerusalem pub built into the castle rock, which was a watering hole for crusaders in the 12th century, and claims to be the oldest pub in the country. It is next to where the beer for the castle was brewed (Brewhouse Yard).

There are many good pubs in Nottingham, and it's refreshing to see that over the years the Salutation Inn has turned away from Whitbread and become a real ale pub, not unlike the Tap & Spile type.

Unfortunately, and I may be wrong as I don't live in the area any more, there aren't that many micro breweries (and I hope I am wrong - there used to at least be Fellowes, Morton & Clayton) and the big local ones have either closed, or moved their brewing elsewhere, having been taken over. It beats me how Shipstone's Ale can now be brewed in Burton-Upon-Trent when everyone knows that to give it that certain "something" which meant it was either good when kept right, or bloody awful, it needed Nottingham water. It certainly isn't Shipstone's that comes out of the pump these days! It's an acceptable "cooking beer", but it has no character.

Andrea


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Subject: RE: What exactly IS Nottingham Ale?
From: roopoo
Date: 03 May 01 - 02:17 AM

PS: Kimberley Ale is good, but it's brewed outside the city, and therefore I haven't counted it!

Andrea


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Subject: RE: What exactly IS Nottingham Ale?
From: sledge
Date: 03 May 01 - 03:57 AM

MMArio, anymore info on Banbury ale, as I'm from Banbury it would be nice to know more, as the only local brew that I really knew was the stuff from the Hook Norton Brewary, wonderful stuff especialy the "old Hooky". Well worth taking the time to do a brewery tour which needs to be booked or just have a look in the visitor center. Something to keep in mind if you are up for Cropredy in the summer.

Now I think about it the Plough in Bodicote used to brew its own beer and damn good it was too, though if it still does I have no idea.

Sledge (dreaming of beer)


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Subject: RE: What exactly IS Nottingham Ale?
From: Gervase
Date: 03 May 01 - 04:54 AM

The certain "something" is usually the hardness of the water. Burton and London are both renowned for their bitters because of the amount of lime in the water - it gives a harder edge to the brew and a sharper palate.
Milds, porters and stouts, on the other hand, are better with soft water. It also helps give them a better head.


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Subject: RE: What exactly IS Nottingham Ale?
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 03 May 01 - 05:25 AM

One of the most important factors which creates the particular flavour of a beer is the water used for brewing it. In England there are many breweries on along the river Trent. Trent water contains a particular balance of minerals which, for some reason, give beers a distinctive taste. Burton on Trent, a distance upstream of Nottingham is particularly noted, although its water is taken from wells and boreholes rather than from the river. Th mix of minerals in Burton water has been copied, and many breweries use the process of Burtonisation to treat the water they use in the brewing process.
I asume that Nottingham Ale historically had a reputation based on a flavour due to Trent water. Try this link for some information about TRENT WATER
Also here is the Campaign for Real Ale I hope this is of some help.
Quack!
Geoff the Duck


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Subject: RE: What exactly IS Nottingham Ale?
From: Les from Hull
Date: 03 May 01 - 05:51 AM

In the 17th century Hull was celebrated for the manufacture of good ale. A proverb, "You has eaten some Hull cheese," meant "you're drunk". The Corporation, from time to time, during the sitting of Parliament, sent its representative one or two barrels of the famous Hull ale. in 1640 Peregrine Pelham, MP for Hull, writing to the Corporation says "I am much importuned for Hull ale, both by Lords and Commons, who are willing to further me in anything that concerns your towne. . . .If it please you to send me a tonne of Hull ale, and leave it to my disposeing, it will not be lost," and in another letter he tells them that the Speaker had asked for "some Hull ale."

Les


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Subject: RE: What exactly IS Nottingham Ale?
From: Steve Latimer
Date: 03 May 01 - 07:57 AM

The Ye Olde Trip to Jerusalem. I was there in '83. Neat place, certainly worth dropping if you are visting Nottingham which is one of my favourite places that I visited in the U.K. I got a sense that other than electricity it hasn't changed very much since it opened in 1189. Don't know about Nottingham Ale, but I sure liked the Newcastle Brown that I had there.


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Subject: RE: What exactly IS Nottingham Ale?
From: KitKat
Date: 03 May 01 - 08:00 AM

Anyone who has not yet tried Brakespears Organic bottled bitter should do so at once - available directly from their brewery in Henley (I believe) or from Vintage Roots (they deliver and have a website).

Pat


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Subject: RE: What exactly IS Nottingham Ale?
From: Fibula Mattock
Date: 03 May 01 - 08:30 AM

aargh, I'm very hungover today from a combination of real ale and west country cider (the sort they sell only in half pints due to its lethal tendancies). But I'll put in good word for the stuff.


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Subject: RE: What exactly IS Nottingham Ale?
From: MMario
Date: 03 May 01 - 08:51 AM

banbury ale

I'm told this round goes back a few hundred years - though I haven't seen documentation


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Subject: RE: What exactly IS Nottingham Ale?
From: MMario
Date: 03 May 01 - 09:44 AM

Nottingham Ale can of course be found in the Digital Tradition


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Subject: RE: What exactly IS Nottingham Ale?
From: MMario
Date: 03 May 01 - 09:48 AM

okay - found the reference - Banbury Ale was in Ravenscroft's Pammelia (1609)

so 392 years old or so...


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Subject: RE: What exactly IS Nottingham Ale?
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 03 May 01 - 09:52 AM

See also  Banbury Ale  at Greg Lindahl's  The Music of Thomas Ravenscroft

As MMario has just said, it was published in Thomas Ravenscroft's Pammelia (1609), but whether or not Banbury Ale turns up in other songs I don't know.  Banbury Cakes have been well-known for several centuries, and are probably still made.  Vaguely on the subject, the Opies (Oxford Dictionaty of Nursery Rhymes, 1951) commented:

"The fact that so many nursery pieces mention Banbury may, in part, be due to the energy of the printer, Rusher.  Working at Banbury he often altered the wording to suit local patronage, but his influence was more than local.  His juvenile publications are among the commonest chapbooks surviving today."

Malcolm


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Subject: RE: What exactly IS Nottingham Ale?
From: sledge
Date: 03 May 01 - 10:49 AM

Malcom, you can can indeed still get Banbury cakes, best served hot with thick custard.

Sledge (drooling, well a bit more than normaly anyway)


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Subject: RE: What exactly IS Nottingham Ale?
From: Kim C
Date: 03 May 01 - 11:42 AM

Yes Noreen, there is a very old drinking song called Nottingham Ale. :-)


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Subject: RE: What exactly IS Nottingham Ale?
From: Chicken Charlie
Date: 03 May 01 - 07:37 PM

Right, I know that one--

"Write me a letter/ Send it by mail.
Send me a six-pack/ Of Nottingham ale."

But actually Miller's is what goes in the sink.

CC


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Subject: RE: What exactly IS Nottingham Ale?
From: Noreen
Date: 03 May 01 - 08:34 PM

Thank you- all new to me. Well, I wouldn't know drinking songs...


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Subject: RE: What exactly IS Nottingham Ale?
From: roopoo
Date: 04 May 01 - 02:52 AM

The song on the digitrad is a different one, and older than the one I have, which was probably written in the sixties.

Geoff's right about the Burton Salts. When we lived in Notts and brewed, we used to add them to the water. I don't know if they got added to Shippo's. (It never did travel well, and it has ended up in Burton via the old Greenall brewery somewhere up in the north-west, after leaving Basford in Nott'm. Used to be in a big old Victorian brewery, and early in the morning you could see them getting the beautiful big drayhorses groomed - all greys.

Sigh

Andrea


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Subject: RE: What exactly IS Nottingham Ale?
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 04 May 01 - 06:12 AM

If you want some songs concerning beer, try to track down the Tale of Ale, which dates from the late 70s, but was re-released on CD in 1993 by Free Reed records. It is an assortment of songs and readings, and very enjoyable.
Here is the website Tale of Ale, check it out.
Quack!
Geoff the Duck


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Subject: RE: What exactly IS Nottingham Ale?
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 04 May 01 - 06:20 AM

Actually, this appears to be the current blue clicky for Free Reed Records. BLUE CLICKY . The Tale of Ale advert also gives some info about buying it in the USA and Canada.
GtD


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Subject: RE: What exactly IS Nottingham Ale?
From: bradfordian
Date: 04 May 01 - 08:20 AM

I work right next to the TRIP TO JERUSALEM but because I don't indulge at lunchtimes I have only been on rare occasions (only every OTHER friday!!) so if anyone wants to do any field research......Actually there is a pub called BUNKERS HILL which only features micro brewers ---but I'm not sure if there any brewers wthin Nottingham at the moment. I feel some research coming on. regards Baz.


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Subject: RE: What exactly IS Nottingham Ale?
From: MMario
Date: 04 May 01 - 09:02 AM

we will expect detailed reports from the researchers.


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Subject: RE: What exactly IS Nottingham Ale?
From: Les from Hull
Date: 04 May 01 - 09:07 AM

Bradfordian - do you still have to put your beermat on top of beer? That was my endearing memory of my last trip to the Trip.

Les


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Subject: RE: What exactly IS Nottingham Ale?
From: Ringer
Date: 04 May 01 - 09:13 AM

Why, exactly, would you put you beermat on top of your beer?


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Subject: RE: What exactly IS Nottingham Ale?
From: IanC
Date: 04 May 01 - 09:21 AM

Keep the dust out!


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Subject: RE: What exactly IS Nottingham Ale?
From: Les from Hull
Date: 04 May 01 - 09:39 AM

The back 'room' of the Trip is actually a cave, and, although I'm no geologist so I couldn't tell what sort of rock it is (some sort of sandstone, I'd guess), the 'roof' dribbles somewhat. So everything gets coated in this fine grey powder. Although you are happy to let this dusty stuff sttle all around, there is one place that you don't want it!

Probably people in Nottingham with really bad dandruff use that room. It's tha one place they can go and not keep brushing at their shoulders.

Les


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Subject: RE: What exactly IS Nottingham Ale?
From: bradfordian
Date: 04 May 01 - 10:24 AM

The TRIP had a major re-furb 2 years back, but it's still pretty Ok. Not many folks use the beer mat now, guess the GHOST has lost its thirst. OK, research (part 1) undertaken (hic). Can confirm existence of Nottingham Ale courtesy of the MALLARD micro-brewery at BUNKERS HILL. However, further research required to confirm repeatability and reliability (It's a tough job etc.) Rumours of other brewers (eg Castle Rock) need further investigation. Volunteers apply here.

Here's one of those blue clicky things (if it works).

Regards Baz


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Subject: RE: What exactly IS Nottingham Ale?
From: Les from Hull
Date: 04 May 01 - 10:41 AM

Trip to Jerusalem


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Subject: RE: What exactly IS Nottingham Ale?
From: Les from Hull
Date: 04 May 01 - 10:43 AM

Ooops try again Trip to Jerusalem


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Subject: RE: What exactly IS Nottingham Ale?
From: GUEST,Sam Hudson of Nottingham
Date: 04 May 01 - 07:27 PM

The Castle Rock micro-brewery is turning out some very fine product, and the Vat & Fiddle pub right next door is the best place to sample it.

The Trip to Jerusalem is still an excellent pub and the refurbishment was, to my mind, sensitive and only what was required to keep the place a working proposition.

We also have some excellent folk clubs round the city...


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Subject: RE: What exactly IS Nottingham Ale?
From: roopoo
Date: 05 May 01 - 02:55 AM

Oh joy! There is some brewing still going on! I hardly get down to Nott'm these days, even though I'm only about an hour away. If I do it's to go on a shopping trawl. What does the Talbot sell these days (aka Yates's Wine Lodge)?

I remember the good old days at the Trip when that model ship over the bar had enormous cobwebs hanging off it. (It is sandstone rock by the way, which is why there are so many natural caves under the city). It was the first pub my son visited, at 10 days old. Couldn't go in, but sat outside with him in his little pouch while I had some very nice Bass. He slept well that day!

It was also the pub where, 25 years ago, on Ian's stag night, the best man went to the loo and came out to find himself abandoned. (The toilets used to be across the courtyard). He then (as you do) tried various pubs in the vicinity, but missed the party. (I think they might have gone to the Bowling Green). He ended up getting a taxi from Slab Square to Ian's house in Carlton where his mum and I were, (as he couldn't remember the address of the house they were supposed to end up at), and arrived bleeding from the head. Daft beggar had decided to vault the railings down the middle of Maid Marion way, and caught his foot in the top! That's what Nottingham Ale does to you!

Andrea


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Subject: RE: What exactly IS Nottingham Ale?
From: ermintrudeclaire
Date: 07 May 01 - 04:25 PM

Whatever Nottingham Ale is if it tastes nice it cant be Mansfield Bitter as that tastes like pipe flushing fluid. Give me Banks's Bitter any day.....


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Subject: RE: What exactly IS Nottingham Ale?
From: GUEST,CraigS
Date: 07 May 01 - 07:28 PM

Many years ago I lived in Nottingham and pulled pints in many places, including about a year spent in the Talbot aka Yates Wine Lodge. In those days, there were two significant breweries in Nottingham - Home Ales and Shipstones. Home Ales preferred hygenic beer, and most of their pubs operated tanks for the bulk vending of paralysed ale. Yates sold Worthington E on the same system. Shipstones (the brewery) sold real ale, but most of the pubs in town mucked about with it (recycling slops and so on using vile apparati like spile tubes and big filter funnels) which is why it got the reputation of being a fickle brew. I can assure you that Shipstones ales travelled well before the take-over - as long as they were not accompanied by a Nottingham landlord! Anyway, since most of Shipstones operations were at Basford, and Home Ales at Daybrook, I doubt that you could call them true Nottingham ales.

To go back to the subject, the interesting Nottingham ale of legend was a red ale, as was the porter sold in olden times for the slaking of thirst, rather than as falling down water. This character has to do with the malting process, so red ales can be stronger than porter. Nottingham ale was distinguished about a hundred and fifty years ago by this characteristic, and because it was less hoppy than in other regions. The only product comparable in modern times is brewed and sold in northern France. You order une biere Killian and you get something that purports to be brewed according to the recipe of George Killian Lett, an ancient Irish brewer who is long gone, along with his brewery, which gave up producing in Ireland in the 1950s. It is very pleasant, and as far as I know the last commercially and widely available red ale.


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Subject: RE: What exactly IS Nottingham Ale?
From: GUEST
Date: 08 May 01 - 01:47 AM

Roy Palmer has written a nice little book called 'A Taste of Ale' which was published last year (Publ Green Branch Press, Lechlade ISBN 0 9526031 6 0) in which he gives examples of a number of beers linked to towns. For Nottingham Ale he notes 'This song ... was reputedly written in the second half of the eighteenth century by - according to Bickerdyke - a naval officer called Gunthorpe , in return for the gift of a cask of ale from his brother, a Nottingham brewer.'


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Subject: RE: What exactly IS Nottingham Ale?
From: roopoo
Date: 08 May 01 - 02:38 AM

Interesting you mention France, as Nottingham was full of French a couple of centuries ago, around the Lacemarket area. I think my mum told me that's what probably started the lace industry. Maybe that's where the style of the beer came from! The city was once, much further back, also divided into the Norman town and the Anglo-Danish town which each had their own councils in the Mont and Moot halls respectively. One of the halls used to be near the corner where (in my youth) H.Samuels was, at the top of Wheeler Gate, where it joined the square. The other was somewhere up the hill at the back of where the council house now is, I believe, and just on the edge of the Lacemarket (I think). Of course they each had separate markets too, and a wall had to be built down the middle of the square to keep them from killing each other on market days. It came down in the early 18th century.

Mansfield Ale is definitely not Nottingham Ale - it's about 15 miles north of Nottingham! When keg was all you could get in some places, their "5-Star" p*ss/keg was usually better than the other local offerings. I suppose when the breweries were established at Daybrook and Basford, they had already been encompassed by the city boundary. Basford isn't that far from the city centre, really.

The first beer I ever tasted was keg Home mild, and it was really warm too. That was in 1967, when I was 15, and it put me off beer for years. Then I met Ian who, as a poor student, refused to buy the stuff I usually had (Babycham or Cinzano), and started me on bottled Shippo's IPA, and then graduated me onto Shippo's bitter. I then tried Home Ales, and found I definitely liked Shippo's better.

Although it's not in the city, Kimberley brewery has always been consistent. They supplied Black Sheep brewery with the Yorkshire squares (and yeast, I believe) which is why, when I first tried Black Sheep, I thought how much it was like Kimberley bitter!

Andrea


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Subject: RE: What exactly IS Nottingham Ale?
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 08 May 01 - 06:58 AM

Here Les - You haven't quite got the idea of these blue clicky things have you! You are supposed to send the clicker to the website you are referring to, not the one they are already at!
Mind you, If you really want to be silly you can just jump about a bit click here or click here or click here or even disappear up your own porthole click here.
If you are lost, you could ask the AA click here or if you get bored you could just go down to the pub click here If you can't be bothered, you could just stay stay where you were ! click here.
Quack Quack Quack!!!!!


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Subject: RE: What exactly IS Nottingham Ale?
From: GUEST,JohnB
Date: 08 May 01 - 12:57 PM

Try looking up Watkins Ale in the DT if you want a slightly different interpretation. It all really depends on context. JohnB


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Subject: RE: What exactly IS Nottingham Ale?
From: Kim C
Date: 08 May 01 - 01:17 PM

We can get Killian's Red Ale in almost any grocery in the US. Of course it's also brewed here. It ain't bad.


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Subject: RE: What exactly IS Nottingham Ale?
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Jun 12 - 11:54 AM

Tha song "Shippo's Ale" was not written by David Brindley. He was a fine singer and sadly long gone - he sang the song which was written by LLoyd Watkins know locally as Wokko.


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Subject: RE: What exactly IS Nottingham Ale?
From: GUEST,Bute Avenue
Date: 08 Jun 12 - 12:47 PM

Was that Wokko from Clifton, a big beefy bloke, who had a smaller and fatter elder brother called Okko?


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